Necromancer’s signet of spite (Inflict bleeding, blindness, crippled, poison, vulnerability, and weakness) aka one button to win, especially if u’re the victim and you’re outnumbered
I’m sorry I lol’d so hard at this…your freaking out about 2 stacks of bleed and a poison? GG man GG.
[sarcasm] So much dps AUTO WIN OP MLG!!!!!!! [/sarcasm]
the point is that it blocks effective condi removal by putting so many different conditions at once, just getting stacks is useless without filler condi to block removal
A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective
Well warrior is warrior. They are op even if they won’t use condi spec. And need to remember that ascendedweapons give boost only power spec.
think hes talking about necro.
and ascended armor doesnt mitigate condi, so by the 10th that wont be as big a deal
Condi necro who have over 3k armor? My necro have full rabid and only 2800 armor and i don’t even use fotm spec (which would give even less armor). I can make power necro spec which is effective and i still have same amount hp and armor.
i stand corrected, though 2800 or 3000 still means you are mitigating massive amounts of dmg
A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective
Well warrior is warrior. They are op even if they won’t use condi spec. And need to remember that ascendedweapons give boost only power spec.
think hes talking about necro.
and ascended armor doesnt mitigate condi, so by the 10th that wont be as big a deal
Dont think they are bowing, just saying that its foolish to base the whole analasis on reset.
I run a full burst D/D spec and my backstabs generally only crit for 6-8k. You’re sorely mistaken if you think that we can hit you for over 10k if you have even remotely close to full exotic armor. My autoattacks generally hit for 1k, 1k then 2 2k hits.
you had a nice first couple posts, but this is total BS. Thieves can hit for over 10k easily.
I have over 2900 armor, hit with 9.8k backstab. No exaggeration (and no vulnerability). Screenshot attached.
the problem with thieves isnt that they have “stealth”; the problem is the way stealth has been implemented. stealthing every few seconds is unheard of in MMO’s; where typically restealthing comes at the cost of a long 45-60sec vanish type of cooldown. This cooldown in other games is a powerful trade off: do i use it to escape, or to get another huge burst?
welcome to GW2, where vanish has a 4 second cd and there is never any hard choice between reopening and running away. it creates a very low effective skill ceiling for the class and creates an entity that pretty much the entire community hates to engage in fighting against. On top of that, it creates a situation where thieves cant get the survivable stats they need for enjoyable in-your-face evasive combat because in conjunction with this extremely poor implementation of stealth, a good evasive fighter with more than 3hp might be OP.
tl;dr
The way Arenanet has implemented stealth is bad for everyone in the game, including thieves. I’d put it up there as one of the worst design decisions ever made in an MMO, but i might be a little harsh of a critic.-Sincerely,
A thief who plays more than just a thief.
backstab is only 806 base dmg. it requires stealth first, and a target’s back.
warrior axe 1 does that with just the first two parts of the chain.
point is, if you can get 10k with it, so what, someone else can get 10k with the same stat setup in 2 seconds. just as easily if not more so.
stealth is only good at running away, it can be used offensively with skill, but a good theif is not better than any other class. Look at SPVP, thieves are barely in the meta, and its not really the stealth builds that are. truth is stealth aint really all that, just doesnt make people feel good about themselves
fractals arent that easy a source, fractal 50 maybe, but youd have to earn your way to 50 first, then you can attempt it once a day. If its like 1/20 which is pretty good odds, it will take the average person 20 days once they reach max level. And then its still a random stat combo. So yeah still way easier to buy it from WvW earnings. The biggest problem is the mental hurdle of leveling crafting. It really should not be required. The crafters can sell the parts, let there be another way to put the parts together for a slight item cost increase.
you dont need a fractal item anymore, and to be honest the fractal item was never that hard to get.
the biggest issue with ascended and WvW is dragonite imo.
Look at what happened to soft wood. This is a total prediction, not an official statement. I have a hunch that the following will happen either this coming update or in two weeks.
1. Mithril rate will become 3 ores to 1 ingot.
2. Silk and Thick leather sections will become 4 scraps to 1 bolt/square
3. Tier1-4 Cloths/leather will become 3 scraps to 1 bolt/squareSo, it is advised that you refine all your mats now (with exception of softwood) base on the following rationales (still base on reasoning / speculation).
A. ArenaNet will never make it so that 1 scrap = 1 bolt since that will make materials become dirt cheap. Base on the trend that has happened when ascended weapons were introduced, this will not happen.
B. If ArenaNet does nerf the mats like they did with woods and irons and you have not refined, you will lose out. Take wools for example, the current rate is 2 scraps = 1 bolt. If you have in stock 2000 scraps (8 stacks) which is equivalent to 1000 bolts. Now suppose AreaNet decide to nerf it to 3 scraps per bolt, your 2000 scrap is now only 666 bolts. You’ve just lost 334 bolts (which is 8.00 gold) for no good reason.
C. If you convert and ArenaNet does not nerf it, then no harms come.
D. You only incure a loss ArenaNet decides to un-nerf things like soft woods after you refined, which is unlikely for Mithrils, cloths and leatherConclusion: It is better off to refine all your mats NOW before the update than wait til it is too late.
they already upped silk and leather to 3 a few weeks ago. Also every ascended piece will likely use like 300-600 silk. cloth and leather isnt as common as wood/iron(no nodes). its entirely possible it could get to be too rare
yea the dev said at least +1, but looking like +1 is the highest that drops. I get the feeling that the designers have little to do with the rewards, and the rewards/items guys dont seem to be on the right page 9/10 times.
on the plus side, infusions are currently valuable, so you can sell them, on the – side, not much reason to sell it if you actually do fractals since you need a ton to upgrade
(edited by phys.7689)
Few rares would of been nice, but as everyone was gonna be getting it… what did people really expect?
this argument doesnt really make that much sense, you realize even with achievements, not everyone did WvW by far. Also, you know every single person each day who kills dwayna gets a guaranteed rare, 30 dragonite, and a similar assortment of greens/blues/yellows?
That aside i dont think the issue is money/rares really, its that very little was unique, and the only item that is, is of a type that is a hassle to show off/use.
but this is war, imagine your villages fate was partially determined by the number of people willing to fight for it.
But, well, it isn’t. There is a cap on each map, and once this magic number of between 60 and 100 fighters have entered the war, no new fighters are allowed. As such, it is a war between “the first” fighters on the field, and not between the most rich, smart, skilled, or whatever (as I tried to point out by my analogy).
And no, I don’t understand WvW as “structured PvP”, either. But I certainly understand WvW as “social PvP”, where a community develops organizational structures, strategies, and tactics that allows them to perform well in WvW. If you add an unproportionally high influx of new players to the mix, that either don’t know or just don’t care about the community effort, and who are directed by harmful incentives, then you might easily destroy what has been build up in months.
Also, in the light of your war analogy, I find the situation even more disturbing. When has someone ever heard of a war where the defending fighters decided “Aw, they are attacking our homeland again? Nah, I don’t care, let them butcher those dumb kittens who unreasonably stayed behind to defend it, and let them take it. Then we can retake it in 5 minutes once the lord buff is gone, and let it fall again. This is a way more efficient rotation to farm my achievements, anyways.”
So, yeah, the rewards are unacceptable.
Then just don’t accept the rewards, destroy them. No one forces you to take the rewards.
~MRA
Controling your community is part of the leadership you develop in your community. Im basically militia type, but when im with a guild who asks people to get in TS, i get in TS. When a guild needs people to switch BL to get their guild in, I switch or i take a break. This whole idea that everyone who isnt in a WvW specific guild is actively destroying your chances of success is incorrect. also the whole queue issue is highly overated. Im on the number one silver league server, after the first week the queues were like 5-15 minutes in primetime, times longer than that seemed to be more about broken queue system than people as some of my other friends got in in 5 minutes.
the reality is the vast majority of servers dont have this Achievement hunter filling up all the queues, they have little to no queues. Also people talking about achievement hunters wanting to flip objectives, wtf, i been WvWing since launch and I remember people quite a few times people let objectives slip just for Karma. And when you play weak servers they actually advise you to let objectives slip just so you dont discourage them.
So yeah, some people go to WvW motivated by pure greed, and their own desires, this is what working on your community entails. It takes more than a couple random pugs to let an objective slip. If someone is letting objectives slip, it is your community, not the 10 pve achievement focused hoes on the map. If the majority of your players are playing a certain way, the random pugs tend to follow.
As far as war letting people take over objectives for their own profits, yeah its actually pretty common in wars to let things get taken over for your own profit, or for the benefit of army/politics. Those are the sucky communities/governments, at least in this game you dont have to be part of them.
Part of the problem, is as i said, many people arent really a part of their communities, Anet probably hoped it would develop naturally, but i think it needs some help.
Hello Phys,
The issue here is that WvW is part war and part game.
The “war” analogy can be applied to the way the maps are played, the tactics and strategy used. What you said is spot on. There’s no such thing as even numbers to bring in a map.
However, if a server in the tier chooses overwhelm the competition by having forces in time zone where the other servers aren’t able compete then that server would win BUT at the risk of having the other servers getting demoralized to a point where people leave the server, wvw or the game itself. That would be bad for everyone because the winning server would have less people to fight. It’s a lose-lose situation for everyone in the long term.
FW
When is having TOO many people wanting to participate in your game ever a BAD idea?
It is, if success in your game relies on training and building up strategies and tactics that (almost) every player knows and adheres.
Just imagine a soccer game (or this American kind of football thing where balls are carried with hands, if your prefer) where, during the finals, not the competing teams are sent on the field to earn the cup, but for every side the first 11 people in the stadium that happen to enter the field once the gates open. And then mix in an achievement mechanism that only rewards the player that is holding the ball. This surely must turn out to be high-quality skillful game-play, indeed.
~MRA
but this is war, imagine your villages fate was partially determined by the number of people willing to fight for it. Imagine if your village was rich enough/smart enough/skilled enough/populus enough they could get things of value.
Imagine by building up your villages fighting prowess you could win things
This is what world versus world is meant to simulate. Your town versus theres, your strengths versus theirs, its not supposed to be an even match like football, or soccer. (thats spvp) Its supposed to be your community versus their community. One of the main issues in US is server isnt seen as your community by many.
I think server pops are another issue, I dont really have the numbers, only anet knows that. But if numbers show its virtually impossible for lower pop servers to compete, then they should probably create weight classes for WvW. Base it on man hours played on that server.
This would ensure no blowouts strictly due to population. At that point getting demoralized… well it would be a server/community issue. As servers grow in coverage, they get shifted to new heavyweight, or when they drop in participation to middleweight. Of course this assumes the cause of blowouts is to great a difference in populations, and that servers cant really beat high pop servers.
When is having TOO many people wanting to participate in your game ever a BAD idea?
It is, if success in your game relies on training and building up strategies and tactics that (almost) every player knows and adheres.
Just imagine a soccer game (or this American kind of football thing where balls are carried with hands, if your prefer) where, during the finals, not the competing teams are sent on the field to earn the cup, but for every side the first 11 people in the stadium that happen to enter the field once the gates open. And then mix in an achievement mechanism that only rewards the player that is holding the ball. This surely must turn out to be high-quality skillful game-play, indeed.
~MRA
but this is war, imagine your villages fate was partially determined by the number of people willing to fight for it. Imagine if your village was rich enough/smart enough/skilled enough/populus enough they could get things of value.
Imagine by building up your villages fighting prowess you could win things
This is what world versus world is meant to simulate. Your town versus theres, your strengths versus theirs, its not supposed to be an even match like football, or soccer. (thats spvp) Its supposed to be your community versus their community. One of the main issues in US is server isnt seen as your community by many.
Or, they could deal with the server transfer issue. Truth is this. It should be a commitment what WvW server you play on, its one of the main reasons servers even exist.
They could also use some systems/rewards which are focused on server pride. Things you only have access to once you have earned it with a certain server.
The main issue with that however is that it would punish people and/or guilds that would transfer for other reason than for rewards or whatever, and that is not really a good solution either.
what is a good reason to transfer in WvW? Shouldnt you have to earn something in the new server you are in? Afterall, whose to say you deserve to wear Stormbluff Ilse Coats if you been killing em for the past 100 days. Should you have access to the StormBluff Ilse Commanders instance?
Point is transfering WvW servers should have a cost associated with it, and there should be somethings that only loyalists earn.
Ok so here is why I created this thread. People don’t like the rewards the game is currently giving. Look at the backlash from the WvW season 1 reward chest. People were disappointed with the rewards for their work and coeicedently they also wxp, luck, ascended mats, skillpoints, and greens/rares/blues/exotics. This is from the WvW perspective. On my poll i’ve got 973 responses. 78% of the voters rated the reward factor of the nightmare within story below 3 on a scale from 1-5 (1 being the lowest). 32% voted 3, 28% voted 2, 18% voted 1. It is obvious that people are not liking the rewards.
That is why they need to add more depth to these concrete things that don’t just involve current currencies or they need to start introducing some drains to these things so that they mean something when people gain them. Putting a gate behind skills that requires you to perform something not only makes it more interesting, but it offers more opportunities for Anet to offer more meaningful rewards. Along with unique skins and what not. I mean what if they make it so you need something similar to signent of capture to gain a skill and you need to buy this each time to gain the skill, similar to guild wars 1. This will offer a drain for the skillpoints, but it can also be offered to WvWers for rewards in season chest. Maybe like 5 of them and they each cost 30 skill points or something.
No matter what, the fact of the matter is that players are not satisfied with current rewards.
Players will only be satisfied with the rewards if they get 2 exotics for completing the story instance. Anet have tried offering a multitude of different rewards for completing content but no single reward will satisfy everyone. Some people also don’t want a cool way to unlock the new skills and would rather just use skill points for them so they can start using it. On the 10th I don’t want to find out how to unlock my new heal skill then go do some dynamic event or find some NPC to unlock it. I want to buy it, make my new build and try it out. You can go do some dynamic events or make your own story and don’t unlock the skill until you’ve done it but let us who just want the skill use our skill points we earned playing the game to unlock the skill and play the game
so what new content do you actually want? What do you actually want to do when you play?
Players will only be satisfied with the rewards if they get 2 exotics for completing the story instance. Anet have tried offering a multitude of different rewards for completing content but no single reward will satisfy everyone. Some people also don’t want a cool way to unlock the new skills and would rather just use skill points for them so they can start using it. On the 10th I don’t want to find out how to unlock my new heal skill then go do some dynamic event or find some NPC to unlock it. I want to buy it, make my new build and try it out. You can go do some dynamic events or make your own story and don’t unlock the skill until you’ve done it but let us who just want the skill use our skill points we earned playing the game to unlock the skill and play the game
Exactly my viewpoint. People should quit imposing their idea of “fun” skill acquisition. I don’t want gates on my skills.
the problem with your theory, is someone is always imposing their idea of fun on someone else.
Right now your idea of just buy from a menu is the one that is being imposed.
You do have a point though.
Let me ask you though, what do you want to do with your skills once you get them? Seriously, what do you enjoy doing in GW? What would you not mind having to do to get something you want?
Exactly, which means that with awesome rewards it would be pointless to play WvW on any server other than those that would most likely win, since you would be more or less constantly outmanned and never have much of a chance of winning.
Which is my point.
Or, they could deal with the server transfer issue. Truth is this. It should be a commitment what WvW server you play on, its one of the main reasons servers even exist.
They could also use some systems/rewards which are focused on server pride. Things you only have access to once you have earned it with a certain server.
As far as awesome rewards, we arent talking about straight up rewards, WvW needs those, but those should be personally earned. We are talking about rewards the show/highlight what your server did. Things that dont mean as much if you arent really a part of that team. lets say the finisher had a huge golden sword impale the enemy that said blackgate. that wouldnt be that valuable if you werent a proud member of blackgate.
Ok so here is why I created this thread. People don’t like the rewards the game is currently giving. Look at the backlash from the WvW season 1 reward chest. People were disappointed with the rewards for their work and coeicedently they also wxp, luck, ascended mats, skillpoints, and greens/rares/blues/exotics. This is from the WvW perspective. On my poll i’ve got 973 responses. 78% of the voters rated the reward factor of the nightmare within story below 3 on a scale from 1-5 (1 being the lowest). 32% voted 3, 28% voted 2, 18% voted 1. It is obvious that people are not liking the rewards.
That is why they need to add more depth to these concrete things that don’t just involve current currencies or they need to start introducing some drains to these things so that they mean something when people gain them. Putting a gate behind skills that requires you to perform something not only makes it more interesting, but it offers more opportunities for Anet to offer more meaningful rewards. Along with unique skins and what not. I mean what if they make it so you need something similar to signent of capture to gain a skill and you need to buy this each time to gain the skill, similar to guild wars 1. This will offer a drain for the skillpoints, but it can also be offered to WvWers for rewards in season chest. Maybe like 5 of them and they each cost 30 skill points or something.
No matter what, the fact of the matter is that players are not satisfied with current rewards.
yes this is a big problem, very few rewards in GW are interesting. If you find a hidden room, all you may get some currencies you can get anywhere else. If you beat the big bad boss you get some random greens or some gold. Finding a hidden room that gives you some lore, and allows you to have a further adventure is better. Killing some boss and getting a skill out of it. Completing a dynamic event chain that teleports you to a special zone, With a Unique Exciting enemy to fight.
Not using skills to enhance the world is a waste of a highly desired reward. At least in GW1 they had some skills that you had to progress in the story to see, or explore in hard to reach places. Getting a skill generally felt a lot better than getting a gold drop, and took you to content you may have otherwise missed/ignored
no and no again. because then u force everyone that doesnt like pve to go pve for their wvw skills. its not ok that id have to go pve to get my new skills. im already having a hard time to get my 3rd ascended. i hate gathering stuff. its boring! im fine with using skillpoints and i dont want to go hunting for some stupid monsters!
Thats why WvW should have their own method.
say requiring a certain WvW rank, and specific conditions to make a wvw trainer appear. then you can buy it from them for skillpoints
Say trainer appears in dif locations depending on whats going on in WvW.Id make two types of occurences trigger them
personal goals.
like kill X without being killed,
Defend X times without leaving map
etc
server goals.
own stonemist
own 3 keeps in a BL
own all towers on a map
win 2 weeks in a rowetc.
I think WvW also needs goals, yall should be able to fight to achieve things you want as well.
If you are a roamer and just go kill small groups or your server is doing bad and can’t reach those server goals than WvW players will feel they have to go to PvE in order to unlock these skills easier or at all. I also don’t see the alure of adding an extra step to acquire the skills when you use skill points anyways. Being a certain WvW rank would be a non factor to most WvW players and feel like a chore to those who are new or far below that rank
If playing the game is a chore, the game is failing, because once you get the skill it will still be a chore. Keep in mind my suggestions are only spring boards, i fully expect more ways. And if you are a good roamer shouldnt you be trying to kill without getting killed?
Dont you think some things should be earned through playing the game? As far as the rank thing, its essentially a gate so that people who play WvW take advantage of this method of skill earning, instead of PVE people just coming in as soon as stonemist is captured for example.
WvW already has progression as i said, you cant use grandmasters till you are level 60, you cant have flame mastery until you get X ranks. The type of progression blocks are already there, they are just not exciting. My goal is to tie progression to exciting things. If you ever played megaman everytime you beat a boss, you got to use his skill, this made beating bosses even more fun, and if someone complained about having to beat the bosses to get the weapon, it made little sense, since the game is about beating bosses anyhow.
If having to kill people, or take over targets to unlock skills in WvW is a chore… then why are you playing WvW?
For someone who plays WvW the rank requirement will not be the limiter, for someone who just started it will be a milestone they earn. If someone doesnt WvW much at all, they will go with the PVE route. Which should also be something exciting you would want to do as a PVE player anyway.
(edited by phys.7689)
I’m having a lot of fun in WvW, and that should be enough, gaming should be it’s own reward. I only play WvW (and lvl new chars that I use for WvW) and I don’t give a flying kitten about any reward chest, I didn’t even know what achievements I had to do to get it, even though I spend close to 100% of my time in WvW. Does that make me better player than anyone else? No, but it seems to make me a happier one.
If you’re only doing WvW for the reward, then something is wrong. You should be playing for fun.
And if you are having fun, why does it matter what reward you got?
I know a lot of ppl do not agree with me, but these are my thoughts anyway.
some people do things just because they like it, some do it for profit, some do it for both. In order to have something be successful across many people it should attempt to satisify most of these people.
Lol, don’t sugarcoat it. They lied. They flat out lied, nothing more and nothing less. A dev said on a live stream that weapon boxes would drop on higher levels. Apparently, ‘higher levels’ means ‘higher levels than are currently available’.
This entire update reeks of neglect. There hasn’t been a single dev post in the Fractured subforum since the update hit, despite the hundreds of constructive posts. There hasn’t been a single word on bug fixes, and glaring issues like uninfused rings dropping in level 30+, weapons that aren’t skins, progression stopping bugs etc.
They don’t care, and my personal expectation is that whatever doesn’t get fixed with the December 10 patch will remain broken and neglected for another year.
We’re not their target audience, so whatever we ask or have to say is unimportant and will never matter to them. And don’t bring me the “oh, you’re so bitter, of course they care” BS, because they don’t. The dungeon forums haven’t seen a single dev post in months, Fractured was a bigger disappointment than I thought it would be, and my expectations were already really low, and they don’t even have the decency to reply to our issues, yet everywhere on the forums, devs keep responding to whatever issues someone else has. As long as it’s PvP/WvW/personal story/open world related, they care. If it’s dungeons/end game PvE, they don’t. And they’ve shown it for well over a year now. The day Hrouda left was the day they should have just shut down the dungeon subforums all together, because it’s not like anyone in their studio still gives a hoot.
sadly, i must agree, fractured patch seems to have been neglected. A lot of bugs/inconsistencies tuning issues, very little acknowledgement they know whats wrong, only a few have been mentioned. I am assuming a lot of staff are on vacation, but unless its going to be a priority when they get back, it will probably be bugged for a long time. They will have even more stuff to work on when they do get back
no and no again. because then u force everyone that doesnt like pve to go pve for their wvw skills. its not ok that id have to go pve to get my new skills. im already having a hard time to get my 3rd ascended. i hate gathering stuff. its boring! im fine with using skillpoints and i dont want to go hunting for some stupid monsters!
Thats why WvW should have their own method.
say requiring a certain WvW rank, and specific conditions to make a wvw trainer appear. then you can buy it from them for skillpoints
Say trainer appears in dif locations depending on whats going on in WvW.Id make two types of occurences trigger them
personal goals.
like kill X without being killed,
Defend X times without leaving map
etc
server goals.
own stonemist
own 3 keeps in a BL
own all towers on a map
win 2 weeks in a rowetc.
I think WvW also needs goals, yall should be able to fight to achieve things you want as well.
but then again. look at it this way. someone new to gw2 will go into wvw where everyone is using skills they’ve got ages ago and he cant keep up with the meta. that would be pretty bad for wvw and also lower ranked servers that might not all are rank 400+ like a lot of wvw ers in the higher tiers will get no access to the skills. same with roamers that dont go cap keeps.
its just really hard to implement. we already have to farm to get ascended which is terrible but ascended is needed in wvw.
someone new to GW still has to earn his skills, you arent given all skills. you will still need to get 30 skill points for some elites. WvW was and still is progression based. you wont have WvW ranks/skills, you wont have exotics/ascended armor, you wont have grandmaster traits till 80.
And im not saying make it impossible to get, im saying (in the case of WvW) that your server has to pull together to get 3 keeps, or stonemist, and if your server is sucking, you go the personal route and kill 50 players without dying or defend a keep 5 times in one session or something.
In my opinion, the game overall feels generally flat, because all the systems are generally fairly seperate from the world. Even though the toxic skill sucked, it was even less of something to do because i opened up a menu and hit buy skill.
Now i will say the other method of obtaining it was just as dull and unimaginative, collect 250x and X gold. How about you actually go on an adventure, and learn something about the world/game in order to progress eh?
I only just noticed that the OP is HoD. Hopefully he’ll understand what I’m talking about here with our (Darkhaven’s) upset over SF… My guild and I put a 70+ hour week into last week… I’m still in a state of shock over how disappointing the rewards are and that DH received absolutely nothing to congratulate us on coming second place in Bronze league.
And for those talking about bandwagon servers being a problem… what about the story of Darkhaven? We lost two of our biggest WvW guilds, but despite all odds managed to pull together and place second. Not rewarding such a thing will only lead to increased bandwagoning – because clearly only first is good enough for any recognition.
And the reward for the servers that place first is only a temporary thing! Souvenirs of your accomplishments are a hugely important thing in MMOs – I can’t believe that GW2 are overlooking such an important aspect of these games. If I reactivated my WoW account right now, I could take you to my bank and show you so many things from my years there… and I could tell you about the people I earned them with and what was going on at the time… It gives me a shiver of nostalgia just thinking about it.
on a different note, this is one of the bad effects of having most good drops be completely random, or bought via some currency. You wont remember the 20th time you beat COF and got a full armor set, or the day you and your friends bought invader armor with badges, no one was probably around when you got your precurspr from the forge.
It has advantages, but somethings should be memorable, should be gotten in specific ways
ok these are my thought on it
1.) if it makes us go out into the world to acquire them from big massive events, what happens when everyone gets their and than there’s only a handful that still need it, or peoples alt, but do to lack of people the event cant be done anymore? right now it might be col but down the road its just gonna be a real pain in the butt
2.)not to mention if they don’t have us use skill point on this there’s still the issue of lack of things to spend skill points on
they should still require skill points to obtain, but also require some actual in game goals. Also i wouldnt tie it to big events, i would tie it to the type of events that scale to 1. they shouldnt be massice tequatl events, this is about personal growth, so it should be tailored to solo-small groups.
ok than how may i ask would it be tailored for each character? if a vendor just pops up after said event wont people will just do what they do with temples now and realm hop and get their skills defeating the entire purpose of it anyhow?
the WvW method would be npc trainers that either pop up when your server does certain things in WvW, or they only sell you the skills when you have achieved some goal (personal)
In PvE, it would be about dynamic events or chains. Server hopping wont help, its not like come after balthazar is beat, its like kill the pirate swordsmaster in the hidden pirate cove, after YOU beat him he will unlock the skill from to your skill menu, you can then buy it like anything else.
One major difference will be that whatever events/npcs involved will be tailored to that specific skill.
ok these are my thought on it
1.) if it makes us go out into the world to acquire them from big massive events, what happens when everyone gets their and than there’s only a handful that still need it, or peoples alt, but do to lack of people the event cant be done anymore? right now it might be col but down the road its just gonna be a real pain in the butt
2.)not to mention if they don’t have us use skill point on this there’s still the issue of lack of things to spend skill points on
they should still require skill points to obtain, but also require some actual in game goals. Also i wouldnt tie it to big events, i would tie it to the type of events that scale to 1. they shouldnt be massice tequatl events, this is about personal growth, so it should be tailored to solo-small groups.
no and no again. because then u force everyone that doesnt like pve to go pve for their wvw skills. its not ok that id have to go pve to get my new skills. im already having a hard time to get my 3rd ascended. i hate gathering stuff. its boring! im fine with using skillpoints and i dont want to go hunting for some stupid monsters!
Thats why WvW should have their own method.
say requiring a certain WvW rank, and specific conditions to make a wvw trainer appear. then you can buy it from them for skillpoints
Say trainer appears in dif locations depending on whats going on in WvW.
Id make two types of occurences trigger them
personal goals.
like kill X without being killed,
Defend X times without leaving map
etc
server goals.
own stonemist
own 3 keeps in a BL
own all towers on a map
win 2 weeks in a row
etc.
I think WvW also needs goals, yall should be able to fight to achieve things you want as well.
Instead they can use any of those things which is already unlocked on their account, whether those skills were unlocked through PvE play (on another character)
if you didnt already unlock them on your charachter you had to win matches to unlock them
I think the point is that once unlocked they were permanently unlocked. Some people keep a single slot around that they reroll for each class instead having one of each class. If you have to unlock every time that becomes a problem.
pretty sure they will get unlocked for both. but we will see
The rewards/goal structure in WvW is very lackluster.
as to those saying wvw is not really competetive, i have to disagree, the servers that stack put in a lot of time and effort to try to recruit, and then stabilize, they tend to have people who play long hours, and coordinate more. Its server versus server so building a WvW community, or your “army” is a part of what its all about.
I do think server transfer penalties for WvW are a bit too lax. losing out on WvW bonuses for a week? thats it? ehhh.
Also there should be some server themed titles, awards, etc. Build up server pride.
its not just a money issue. Honestly if you are getting good fights, WvW competes with normal PVE play. But there really is nothing for a WvW player to aim for. What makes it worthwhile to build up your server community, teach new players, get PVE guys into WvW. Why should the server be downloading TS, logging on late, scouting etc.
I know people love the fights, but WvW isnt just about logging in and killing some peoples. If they dont have some type of WvW centered rewards, titles, and goals, it will be very hard to make people think its worth the effort to win. Worth the effort to actually take objectives, worth the effort to defend.
kinda odd here, looks like fighting in gold isnt very healthy. early numbers have the silver top 3 beating the 4,5,6 in gold. But, maybe its just a reset thing.
I think its more of a case of 7 weeks fighting uphill peeps are just taking small breaks and not taking things to seriously atm. I could be wrong but I know I only played a couple hours then called it a night. FA has seemed to get much bigger, not a complaint or insult so much as an observation.
yeah, FA is riding high, but we ll see how that balances out. Also its still just the weekend. Interesting though
To make my post more precise: I’m talking about 1:00 am to 6:00 am CET. That’s when most of your keeps and towers fall to the enemy who has overwhelming presence in WvW during the night. Gw2 is a game and it should be possible for normal people with normal schedules to have fun during normal times, to build something up. Who the kitten sits in front of the computer all night, to raid the enemy? And don’t come up with the “don’t play if you don’t like it or deal with it”, that’s just lame. I love guildwars, but I hate anet for limiting the games possibilities.
some people dont sit in front the comp, for them thts their offtime. Lot of people work evenings and nights, or freelance. The world doesnt only exist for you
Instead they can use any of those things which is already unlocked on their account, whether those skills were unlocked through PvE play (on another character)
if you didnt already unlock them on your charachter you had to win matches to unlock them
kinda odd here, looks like fighting in gold isnt very healthy. early numbers have the silver top 3 beating the 4,5,6 in gold. But, maybe its just a reset thing.
New skills are great! BUT why they have to be unlocked for PvP?! I guess really soon in the future, where it won’t be limited only to heal skills, we will all miss PvP only characters and GW1 :-/
It’s like a step back from e-sports. Imagine that you would have to unlock units in SC2 by playing XX of hours…seriously ?!
in gw1, im pretty sure you had to unlock skills for pvp
this is the debate anet had before the game came out. back then they had specific skills gotten from certain skill challenges. They said they decided to make em into skill points so that people didnt have to split up, and so every player could experience more content. IMO it was an error. Hunting skills, and having skill challenges be more specific to the skill enriches the world, and might have made leveling alts more exciting.
The introduction of new skills, only using only skillpoints is boring. Some people like it boring, they dont want to have to wait or do anything, but thats a big problem with the game. every event is the same reward, things are introduced with no context/connection to the world. Then people wonder why content feels so flat, and people ignore new events (back when they introduced modus scleri) Its because progression should be tied to gameplay and the world.
You should have to defeat a master swordsman you find in a hidden pirates cove to unlock a cool sword skill. Hunt a mythical beast to unlock a new ranger trap. Assassinate an evil official to unlock a new theif skill. All the while revealing greater background/lore in the game, and having cool events. This is an rpg. getting more skilled shouldnt just be about opening champion chests and buying skills from a menu.
well even though i think the rewards should have been more unique and wvw focused, as well something to aim for for wvw servers, wvw will go on. I guess the devs plan to grow wvw without rewards/goals.
If they can achieve that, hey its all good.
I think the rewards were very poorly designed for the health of WvW.
but many like it, too many underground wvw players, they dont want it to get popular and commercial.
which really means, not a lot of participants, and most players concentrated on one or two servers. Winning shouldnt matter too much, so you can fight in the field.
If wvw doesnt improve its progressions/goals and what not, its not going to grow, which means a fairly small budget, and nothing really cool for it. Some people think thats a good idea. I dont
lmao at all the crying. A true wvwer won’t care about the rewards. The only people I hear crying are the guys who came to wvw when the leagues started and came purely for achievements. In which case, I hope they feel discouraged and never come back. If it took you 7 weeks to get the achievement you should try an easier game.
this underground mentality is crippling the game mode and playerbase. You should be able to make a living (in gw2 terms) from wvw. you shouldnt have to go to work in PVE so you can play wvw, or get nice things. For people who enjoy pushing hard, there should be rewards just like people who push hard in PVE.
Apparently a true WvWer should be pauper with no shinies, no titles, inferior gear (no ascended/legendaries) a forest of blues and greens to dance in. Who doesnt even get anything to commemorate his succcesses.
Honestly cannot believe you’re actually complaining about the rewards. Think about the number of people that actually participated in the season whom only farmed their achievements and then left without really ever attributing to anything to that server’s position in the league… things may seem “unique” to a certain population, but you’ll just have thousands of people running around with the same items and it’d be meaningless.
Really, what you should be taking away from Season 1 is a sense of pride in how your server did, in your ability to rally and work together. Think about how much fun you actually had during the season with having that many more people participating and getting in to WvW. Think about how now, out of season, your server has potential to tier up (or down if you did horribly).
the reality is that anyone who actually got the achievement contributed to their server success.
taking camps helps server
killing dolyaks helps server
taking keeps help server
taking stonemist helps server
hard to get 50 wvw ranks wo helping server
kills help server.
even the ruins you guys hate helps server, by either blocking points gained on kill, or obtaining it. stats show servers get 37-50% of their points due to these buffs. These buffs are actually given mostly for killing other players, so yeah.
it may not be your opinion of optimal use, but these things all contribute to success in a match up.
jumping puzzles and guard kills are mostly about giving servers who cant compete or hope to take stonemist ways to complete meta.
I’m so relieved. This means most of the pve population that takes up spots and refuses to get on teamspeak will stick to frost-gorge? Hopefully the abysmal rewards will stop a max exodus of transfers to our server, s1 queues were bad enough.
heres the problem with your blackgate only thinking, almost every other server could use more players.
also blackgate specifically recruited people, dont complain now.
if anet balances rewards around blackgate, WvW will fail, blackgate is not indicitive of wvw as a whole.
Here’s what I don’t get. Are you people new? WvW has always had less the stellar rewards to investment in it. This should come as a surprise to no one who has actively been doing wvw for any amount of time. I’m more shocked that the chest actually has a decent amount of dragonite in it.
Agreed. If you did WvW for the rewards, then you probably should’ve stuck to PvE
there is no logical reason player versus player shouldnt have decent rewards, and more importantly somethings that you aim for as a competitor
There is a logical reason. The diehard fans of WvW are tired of reward-seeking players who don’t care about WvW objectives taking spots and causing crazy long queues. WvW players want to play with like-minded players and want to play against like-minded players.
If you want rewards, there is a game mode that gives you good rewards: PvE. Stay out of WvW if you don’t intend to WvW
Then they should make the rewards more accurately represent tthings beneficial to WvW. I am a player who does both, and probably leans to PVE, i dont really play WvW for the rewards anyway. However, your type of thinking will keep WvW niche and under played.
I feel bad for the players who have to leave WvW to earn a legendary.
I feel bad for the players who have no titles to show for a years work
I feel bad for the players who have to pve if they want any unique armors
Why is there nothing a WvW player can aim for other than World ranks?
WvW is supposed to be a game mode with its own progressions, and goals, Its woefully short on goals right now. Beating other servers is the point of WvW. Why is it barely rewarded to do so? You realize as a WvW player you cant keep up with a PVE player at anything? They will get better armor before you, they will get skillpoints faster than you, they will get gold faster, they will get titles faster.
I mean i see you want to keep WvW “underground” and “real” but its not the best thing for the players or the game mode itself.
Did you guys honestly expect lucrative rewards from WvW? If they did, then it would completely break WvW balance because everyone would flock over to a winning server.
If you want good reward-time spent ratio, then PvE is that way —-——->
I’m glad that Anet didn’t make WvW into a reward-based system.
Why, exactly, shouldn’t WvW be properly rewarded? What warrants for WvW having worse rewards than, the much easier, PvE content?
Same reward spread across everyone who participated? Or different tiers of reward (and better) for servers that ranked higher?
If latter, that would break WvW completely as reward-seeking players would flock over to the winning server and cause it to stack.
If former, then that would cause tremendous queues in WvW, which WvW-players are already sick of. PvE doesn’t have queues, so it doesn’t suffer from players flocking to it. WvW does, and WvW-players want to play with and against other like-minded players who play for fights, not rewards.
If you’re complaining that WvW isn’t rewarding enough, nobody is stopping you from going over to PvE with rich rewards.
The answer is to give rewards that WvW people would care about more.
Such as WvW based titles, WvW only cosmetics (only visible in WvW), and an easy one, permanent WvW finishers. WvW skills (which may be an answer for some classes which dont have good WvW use)
The fear of PVE imbalance isnt a good reason for WvW to suck for rewards.
The truth is on average WvW across most servers is woefully underpopulated. It would actually be better for all if they could get a higher population in WvW regularly. Imagine if it wasnt only 3 servers which saw consistent play. You realize that while you may fear queues on your server, you are the exception rather than the rule.
hmmm were we guaranteed anything other than what we’d get on a “normal day” in WvW? Don’t think so. Better question is why do you think you are entitled to get more than a RNG chest that may at most contain an exotic, rare and or greens and blues?
problem is, this is currently the sum total of all wvw up to this date.
The standings your server earned over a year of play, the 7 week long match ups. The community break ups and reforms. They are basically saying this is all its worth. 250 kills.Is it the end of WvW? no, wvw has generally sucky rewards, but its sad that this is going to continue.
They should have added WvW only skins
WvW only finishers
WvW titles that dont take 6 years to complete.the rewards chest is only the further reinforcement of the WvW rewards kind of suck problem. And lack of having WvW goals.
If this is the most you can hope for after 1 year of battles and a 7 week tournament, what type of rewards can you ever expect from wvw?
I don’t expect any actually, I do world because it is what I like to do. I don’t do it for rewards, I do it for the fights and the fun I have with my guild and my friends.
Even if you were in a weekend football league, you would get a permanent trophy, with the year and your ranking, gold, silver bronze. And probably a jersey that says something like 2013 champs.
I think you expect too little, wvw should actually give you some cool titles/uniques and similar “pay” to PVE. not saying you shouldnt have fun, but competitions generally have something to aim for.
I will say that they were kind of in a rock and hard place. If rewards were good people will complain, if rewards are bad, you arent really incentivizing wvw competition very much.
I think they could have given basic rewards closer to what they gave the top servers, but they should have given some unique stuff to top placing teams. I think they could at least have given some titles, like Season 1 Silver God, Season 1 Silver King, Season1 silver lord.
Season 1 Golden god, etc.
the rewards are currently kind of failing.
Here’s what I don’t get. Are you people new? WvW has always had less the stellar rewards to investment in it. This should come as a surprise to no one who has actively been doing wvw for any amount of time. I’m more shocked that the chest actually has a decent amount of dragonite in it.
Agreed. If you did WvW for the rewards, then you probably should’ve stuck to PvE
there is no logical reason player versus player shouldnt have decent rewards, and more importantly somethings that you aim for as a competitor
hmmm were we guaranteed anything other than what we’d get on a “normal day” in WvW? Don’t think so. Better question is why do you think you are entitled to get more than a RNG chest that may at most contain an exotic, rare and or greens and blues?
problem is, this is currently the sum total of all wvw up to this date.
The standings your server earned over a year of play, the 7 week long match ups. The community break ups and reforms. They are basically saying this is all its worth. 250 kills.
Is it the end of WvW? no, wvw has generally sucky rewards, but its sad that this is going to continue.
They should have added WvW only skins
WvW only finishers
WvW titles that dont take 6 years to complete.
the rewards chest is only the further reinforcement of the WvW rewards kind of suck problem. And lack of having WvW goals.
If this is the most you can hope for after 1 year of battles and a 7 week tournament, what type of rewards can you ever expect from wvw?
Tbh, I’m surprised anyone thought the Golden Dolyak Finisher would be permanent. I mean, yeah, that would make a lot of sense, but at the same time… THEY SELL FINISHERS FOR REAL LIFE MONEY IN THEIR STORE! Arenanet isn’t about to give the most highly populated servers in the game the best (arguably) finisher available and go “As your reward, you can hold onto your gem money. No need to buy finishers anymore guys!”
You know what they don’t sell in the store? Green weapons and armor. I think we all knew we’d be getting plenty of those before Season 1 even started.
So… yeah. I think Arenanet is making a great argument for bringing back the subscription model in MMO’s.
i believe the spvp finsihers were permanent, and it would make no sense for them to sell placement finishers in the store at all.
Here’s my opinion:
Somewhere deep down, Anet developers know that if they make WvW rewards more appealing than other areas of the game, particularly areas that are instanced or can overflow, too many reward chasers will swarm WvW and fill maps that can only handle a set number of players. This will place many PvPers who like the game mode into queues (broken queues I should point out) essentially cutting out the reason the game mode exists in the first place.
they could have made it something only WvW people could use effectively
cosmetics that only work/animate in WvW
unlimited finishers
special wvw abilities
also, they are going way to the otherside.
even if they gave you 5 random exotics, that wouldnt be a lot for a 7 week achievement.
they also could have made something like a zaishen chest, and gave more openings to players per rank.
The problem is its kind of failing its job on all accounts, as an award.
doesnt last
doesnt have great monetary value
doesnt have lasting percieved value
isnt unique.
Exactly what specification of a good reward is this fullfilling? even though this is a 7 week battle, its actually based on standings for the last year, so its really an even greater hill that has to be climbed to get it. Its really not a great look.
haha I love that some people are actually upset about these “rewards” like they actually expected winning a league meant they should get rewarded for it. In the end, Anet got thousandssss from all the gens transferees bought.
i think the problem is, so far, this is the only big thing WvW brings. In the past year+ this is the biggest thing you can aim for in WvW. and looks like there isnt that much reason to aim for it.
WvW could use some unique cosmetics, and more balanced rewards. They also could at the very least have given enough dragonite for one ascended item. it was a 7 week achievement, better yet give 1 vision crystal.
the best thing from the chest is probably the tomes.
wonder if they messed up the finisher distribution. Seems odd that bronze league gets nothing, and people who got 2nd in a league get no finishers
Well taking a look at the other side, some people in WvW said that it would be a problem if it was too good, and attract pve people too much.
but yeah they could have been more permanent/creative.
could have made weapons/items that only have cool effects in WvW.