It is fine. Different materials drop from different kinds of content.
If you need Dragonite Ore, you will have to do the things that drop Dragonite Ore.
And by ‘things that drop dragonite ore’, he means ‘bore your face off with mind numbingly simple and repetitive world boss and temple zerging’. I hope that you are able to play at 0000 GMT, because if you are not able to jump on the server reset train this is a rather time consuming grind.
I really thought that GW2 was supposed to be a game about playing to have fun, not being forced into monotonous grinds in order to advance.
You dont really make sense, you call it a repetitive and simple zerg, then you want to do it via zerg, though every one of these aside from lyssa can be down with 5-10 men and not be repetitive simple zergs.
It also requires very little actual boss kills to get per ascended item, heck for most armor you only need 200 per, which is essentially 6-7 events, over like 4 days minimum.
7 events which often take less than 7 minutes, over 4 days, with 7 choices for boss can hardly be called a grind.
and honestly an adventure game needs to have different rewards/reasons to do different things in the world. The game would be boring and souless as heck if every task gave the same things in the same amounts no matter where you go or what you do, and you trade that to some guy to buy everything you want.
No reason to explore, no reason to do anything different, or difficult. killing skelk outside queensdale gives the same thing as finding and exploring the deepest darkest caves, beating the most difficult dungeons, or killing the epic bosses.
i think your way would be a much worse design
I do have patience! I have played GW2 diligently since release day, have tolerated it’s early months of bug filled gaming. I have 5 lvl 80’s, three characters with maxed crafting lvl’s, a number of ascended weapons and celestial armor. I however wouldn’t pay time or gold, or grind for the ascended. Besides, I don’t really care for it’s appearance and the difference in stats doesn’t warrant the effort anyway.
Don’t you think you’re contradicting yourself a bit here? You don’t care for the appearance or the stats, so why are you complaining? You don’t NEED it. It’s for the people who ENJOY the extra character progression. You can do anything in this game without ascended armor.
What about people who enjoy BIS gear and don’t enjoy tedium? I swear, everyone in this forum assumes that everyone likes the same thing. If I want BIS gear then I need to get ascended gear, and getting ascended gear is terrible.
I also enjoy making builds and performing tweaks to get the best performance out of my characters. But If I want to “tweak” something about ascended gear I need at least a week and (for weapons and armor) about 20 gold.
If you want BiS gear, work for it.
LOL I have work in RL. If I need to work afterhours I’m expecting another paycheck in real money. I’d prefer to have fun in my free time.
From your post I can tell about you:
1. You like grind. But many ppl don’t like it (which is completely normal, I’d say it’s abnormal to like grind without new content).
2. Or your time is really cheap. You don’t have real life and you don’t know how to waist it. Not all ppl like this.You have a RL job, then lets compare that to real life. I want a BMW (ascended), but i can’t afford it because i only work 8 hours per day. I can afford a Honda (Exotic) with my job with which i can do all i need to do, hell i can still do most of my stuff with a Lada (Green), but I think that i deserve an Honda and i work enough hours to pay myself that. Now i can decide to get a second job and not only work 8 hours per day, but 16 hours per day. That way, i’ll have enough money to buy a BMW (ascended). Ok its my choice and now i ask you can i said : ‘’Hey i can’t afford BMW (ascended) with my jobs right now, this suck and they should decrease the cost of a BMW because if i want one right now i’ll have to work more hours. This is not fair because i hate doing more work hours (grind) but i still want the BMW (ascended).
Now i don’t know for you, but that seem like a strange and disconnect reality. Ascended and Legendary are end game gear and for that they should be the gear that cost the most. Its not because you want the best gear that you should have it without effort. Now lets take the example of SWOTOR. I need to do daily/weekly to get Basic commendation to get the first gear tier at level 55 (max level). Once i have the gear, then i can do hardmore flashpoint and some hard daily/weekly to gain Elite commendation to buy the next tier of gear. Once i have my gear, i can start to do hardmode operation to get Ultimate Commendation to get the other next tier of gear (which i think is the last tier of gear, but not sure because i stopped playing SWOTOR). At that point forget pugging, you need a guild to get that stuff. A guild that’s gonna do operation on a regular basis and will ask its member to be pretty much hardcore gamer. In GW2, ascended/legendary can take some time to get, but you can do it by your own at the speed you want and you never need to be an hardcore player with a guild schedule. That’s why i stopped playing SWOTOR/WoW, etc and i’m still on GW2.
the problem is, a job is something you do just so you can do what you actually want to. Its ok to have to work at getting better at your hobby, or to build up the really elite facets of that hobby, thats a necessary part of the progression, however, you shouldnt have to clean toilets to get better at playing handball for example.
you should be able to get better and handball, and achieve handball goals by playing handball well, and training at handball activities. GW2 right now, to be the best of the best statistic wise, you have to do something has little to do with the strengths or why most people bought the game.
Really, the trinity didn’t disappear – it was simply replaced. It’s not “stacking” it’s… crowdtanking.
The issue is that so many people were b—hurt by WoW, that they are frantic to bash anything that is even remotely similar. That leaves MMO designers replacing “WoW Mechanics” with anything different even if not better.
Trinity existed long before WoW. In fact, it existed long before first MMORPG, back when all we had were pen & paper MMO. It was intentionally removed in GW2 not because of WoW, but as a consequence of devs aiming for more action-oriented combat and soloability.
It didn’t work as well as intended, of course (it achieved the main goals, but only at a price of introducing many other, unwanted problems), but that is another story.
You see, this is an example of people being overly b—hurt by WoW. I say nothing about when Trinity came into existance, but this guy feels the need to argue about it because I mentioned WoW. No, WoW didn’t invent trinity, but it is the most well known and successful MMO that uses Trinity.
This mentality is why devs are replacing traditional systems with systems that aren’t necessarily better. The goal is to avoid the hordes of people that are b—hurt about WoW, not come up with better ways of doing things. I’d like to see more focus placed on coming up with actually better ways to do things, rather than just throwing together anything that is different enough to avoid comparisons.
The overflow world boss method is a poor replacement for raid content. Stacking is a poor replacement for tanking.
never played wow. I enjoy the game a lot more because it isnt trinity. Trinity is more boring because it pigeonholes proffesions into one task. Having to DPS, support, defend, heal is more entertaining to me than just doing one thing.
If winners get more tickets and you’re on a server that has 0% chance to win due to population/coverage, then the only way to get more tickets is to pay gems to transfer.
Pay-to-Win FTL.
Everyone seems to be glossing over the fact they said that your Server reward alignment is based on your WvW participation history? If you transfer to Blackgate now, you will have to work your kitten off doing WvW objectives to be considered a Blackgater when it comes to rewards.
also the most expensive rewards should be server specific, like a Blackgate finisher. Getting that if you dont truelly believe in blackgate is a waste of time.
No. They mean participation history during the tournament. So if you transfer on the last day of the tournament, you won’t get much rewards. If they do it the way you say, players new to WvW won’t be getting any rewards just because they’re new.
So again, if you need to transfer to get the full rewards, then it’s Pay-to-Win; especially considering the fact that winning or losing is independent of your actions and only depends on coverage.
new players will show 100% of their WvW statistics on that server so they will get credit. People who did most of their WvW play on Blackgate will be blackgate. Someone who captured 1000 keeps on devonas rest and transfer to blackgate would be a devonas rest associate until they put in enough work to be considered a blackgater.
If it did work that way, i think it could solve most issues. You can transfer if you really want, but dont expect to be considered part of your new server reward wise until you have earned that association. I mean otherwise, what problemm does it really solve? The rare case of someone transfering to blackgate for reward, then back to home server cause they like it there? better of spending that 40 bucks on gems to gold if you want to pay to win. Also that guy doing that isnt really messing up wvw as a whole, because hes still on his home server.
Anet’s Pre release hype was “no more grind”, basically realizing the “grind” issues and how disenchanted players of GW were with it. Now we have the Ascended Armor / FOTM “Grind”. What the heck Anet? Was pre release hype re: No grind just a con job? Would seem a bit hypocritical to me. This games direction is going to vertical in my opinion. I think Anet is shooting itself in the foot!
You’re mistaken. There’s already no “required” grind in the game. You make the choice to grind for the Ascended gear, therefore it’s your own doing.
ps – I already have a full set of Ascended weapons, armor, and trinkets… plus my Legendary. I did the grind, and never complained once. The game is fine.
but you are a grinder/merchant going by your posts, which is fine, but you are the outlier when it comes to an adventure game. This systems you are talking about specifically reward the type of gameplay you do.
Most people didnt think they would have to grind materials or gold for 3-4 hours a day for 2-3 months to get best in slot gear for one set.As far you make the choice, thats like saying scoring baskets is optional in basketball. The game gives you more power if you do X, this basically means the game is telling you to do X to succeed. If game designers are rewarding you for playing the game the way they dont want you to play, thats not really a good design
Take into account that most people got their gear via dungeons. they skipped the pleasure of farming t6 mats and thus fulfilled their need as quickly as possible. Now they are forced to work for a mere 5% and find it so hard, even though its not required.
That kind of a weird example to use but i guess i can try to use it. Shooting in basketball is optional if your out to have fun and get exercise. If your goal is wining then yes shooting isn’t optional, I might be mistaken so correct me if im wrong all the NBA stars were born stars they never put in time and effort right?
shooting in basketball is never optional unless you arent playing basketball, if you are trying to get excerise, while running with a basketball, it isnt called basketball, its called dribbling excerise.
the analogy wasnt meant to go towards work and effort though, but applying the analogy to the effort situation,
you essentially have a game where to get prepared to be successful at basketball, you have to do something fairly unrelated to basketball to succeed. This happens in real life all the time, its called a job. You have to work at something you dont like doing to get prepared for something you like doing.
like if you had to be a janitor to buy basketball sneakers and a gym membership. This is different from playing every day versus challenging opponents, or even waking up early to practice shooting/dribbling/passing. I would rather do the latter to improve my abilities in the game.
Now if i buy a game, i dont mind refining my skills and having to practice to succeed, but thats not what we have to do for ascended armor, we have to play the most money/resource per hour game, every day for 2-4 hours, for 2-3 months
Also as far as the dungeon runners, its not that they didnt work for their gear, the key difference is they worked at it while actually doing the thing they bought the game for. Also make no mistake, im not against crafting, and i dont think that crafting should have no place in ascended. However I really dont think the implementation is incentivizing crafting properly (which has now become that thing everyone has to do for gear) and its not incentivizing the type of endgame gameplay that most people would expect/want from a adventure type game
(edited by phys.7689)
Your daily 40 Linen Scraps are easily farmable in 15-20 min and you even get some cotton and silk along the way.
Where can you farm that much Linen from, because I’ve gotten that amount of scraps in about 2 months worth of normal play!?
There is a difference between farming and normal gameplay. You would have to go to the appropriate zones, do some dynamic events that spawn the right mobs and even some dungeons give you quite some linen.
Linen is on the loot table of alot of different loot bags as well as 4 different salvage items.
dynamic events would not help you unless you have enough people to spawn a lot more monsters, also dynamic events dont happen all the time. And yes, i have done this. While on some rare lucky occurence your first 6 bags could give linen and you get 6 frayed garments in 10 minutes, its unlikely to occur repeatedly over an extended period of time (like every day for the forseable future)
the dungeon would probably be caduceus, and if you got a team dedicate to farming it and killing mobs efficiently, that may work out, however i havent tested it in those conditions so i cant be sure
Well, what holds you back to gather some people and farm for an hour? There are many nice dynamic event chains in the mid level maps which arent run by big groups continously like the champ trains. In my opinion, most people are just lazy to do some research online or in the field to find better spots and prefer to do what everybody else is doing.
Take Southsun for example: Nobody is farming it, even though Veteran Karkas have a guaranteed drop of Karka Shells, which go for 8s atm, with a chance of t5 and 6 blood, both also in demand. There are lots of champs to kill and dynamic events that spawn lots of mobs, Ori, ancient wood and passion flowers to gather.
If you want more Linen, start a champ train in a lvl 40-60 map that has a higher chance of dropping masterwork champ loot bags that drops linen.
Also, in a champ train, it hardly matters what level you are, as all you need is to spam 1, so what hold you back to roll an alt to get lvl appropriate loot that has the potential of being higher in value than doing the same with your lvl 80?
In a former guild of mine, we had a map completion run going on every 2nd night and with a group of 20-30, it didnt take much more than 1-2 hours per map, while we got alot of mats along the way.
The possibilities are all there, most people are just too lazy to take advantage of them.
And you see what you are saying is that in order to be the most powerful adventurer, you should dedicate your life to farming.
Gather 20 players to force spawns of easy enemies
You also suggest leveling up throw away charachters to spam 1 and get rewards
point is, what you are suggesting is that the best way to obtain endgame gear should be to come up with and use various effecient techniques to easily farm. for probably around 2-4 hours a day, (for all the various things you need for ascended) for about a month.
And thats the problem, 2-4 hours of farming per day is what ascended has become. Instead of the reward leading people to the interesting gameplay parts of GW2, it gives them only 1 real choice, exploit the most effecient means of farming.
In someways, ascended is an Economic success, it has generated demand and markets, and increased certain forms of earning. But in other ways it is a failure, because the economy it creates makes degenerative play the best way to succeed, or TP merchanting, which isnt really that degenerative, but it should only be one avenue to success
Anet’s Pre release hype was “no more grind”, basically realizing the “grind” issues and how disenchanted players of GW were with it. Now we have the Ascended Armor / FOTM “Grind”. What the heck Anet? Was pre release hype re: No grind just a con job? Would seem a bit hypocritical to me. This games direction is going to vertical in my opinion. I think Anet is shooting itself in the foot!
You’re mistaken. There’s already no “required” grind in the game. You make the choice to grind for the Ascended gear, therefore it’s your own doing.
ps – I already have a full set of Ascended weapons, armor, and trinkets… plus my Legendary. I did the grind, and never complained once. The game is fine.
but you are a grinder/merchant going by your posts, which is fine, but you are the outlier when it comes to an adventure game. This systems you are talking about specifically reward the type of gameplay you do.
Most people didnt think they would have to grind materials or gold for 3-4 hours a day for 2-3 months to get best in slot gear for one set.
As far you make the choice, thats like saying scoring baskets is optional in basketball. The game gives you more power if you do X, this basically means the game is telling you to do X to succeed. If game designers are rewarding you for playing the game the way they dont want you to play, thats not really a good design
(edited by phys.7689)
If winners get more tickets and you’re on a server that has 0% chance to win due to population/coverage, then the only way to get more tickets is to pay gems to transfer.
Pay-to-Win FTL.
Everyone seems to be glossing over the fact they said that your Server reward alignment is based on your WvW participation history? If you transfer to Blackgate now, you will have to work your kitten off doing WvW objectives to be considered a Blackgater when it comes to rewards.
also the most expensive rewards should be server specific, like a Blackgate finisher. Getting that if you dont truelly believe in blackgate is a waste of time.
(edited by phys.7689)
Your daily 40 Linen Scraps are easily farmable in 15-20 min and you even get some cotton and silk along the way.
Where can you farm that much Linen from, because I’ve gotten that amount of scraps in about 2 months worth of normal play!?
There is a difference between farming and normal gameplay. You would have to go to the appropriate zones, do some dynamic events that spawn the right mobs and even some dungeons give you quite some linen.
Linen is on the loot table of alot of different loot bags as well as 4 different salvage items.
dynamic events would not help you unless you have enough people to spawn a lot more monsters, also dynamic events dont happen all the time. And yes, i have done this. While on some rare lucky occurence your first 6 bags could give linen and you get 6 frayed garments in 10 minutes, its unlikely to occur repeatedly over an extended period of time (like every day for the forseable future)
the dungeon would probably be caduceus, and if you got a team dedicate to farming it and killing mobs efficiently, that may work out, however i havent tested it in those conditions so i cant be sure
(edited by phys.7689)
In the end, its a dynamic market and ascended crafting was introduced not only as a mat sink but also as a gold sink. As long as there are players out there that pay the high prices, they wont go down. Ascended crafting was also introduced as a long term goal so I dont see why Anet should change the drop rate for cloth.
your daily 40 Linen Scraps are easily farmable in 15-20 min and you even get some cotton and silk along the way.
Silk is a bit more of a problem but in my opinion its just because players promoted huge amounts of the silk supply to gossamer prior to the patch and were left empty handed when they realized they dont need much gossamer and huge amounts of silk.
Apart from that, i think ascended crafting is pretty much working as intended and in a good place. I dont see a reason to change it.
no 40 linen scraps are not anywhere close to 15-20 minutes. The best source for a level 80 charachter is killing a humanoid enemy that drops bags, only the bags, and the frayed garment can salvage into linen, linen doesnt drop in most bags, and frayed items dont drop super often, even then it can instead salavge into cotton. you can get more if you are within level range from gear drops IF it ends up being cloth, but you will level out of that range in probably a week
linen scraps go for 7-8 silver, if people could really farm it in 15-20 minutes it would be one of the main farms. at 8-11 gold per hour.
and thats only 1 material needed, you still need 300 silk scraps.
Another problem is once again the best way to achieve endgame goals in the game is to do a type of gameplay that devs refer to as degenerative gameplay. This is bad design. Its fine to have farming options, but when gathering that much material, or the gold equivalent to it, is required daily, you are essentially killing the fun in attaining long term goals.
Building ascended item recipes based primarily on economy rather than man hours required to generate is big mistake. It focuses the game once again on earning gold by any means necessary as the primary end game playstyle. And lets be honest, thats asking for degenerative gameplay.
just because there are 100000000 silk scraps on the market, doesnt mean its a good idea to make a recipe require each day, 2-3 hours dedicated solely to grinding gold or items as your endgame progression
Do you really expect a boss that 10 players can fight will scale up to be an equivalent challenge for 50? The creature would have to have different mechanics, essentially making a different boss entirely for a certain threshold of players.
Sounds cool to me.
Sounds like a gigantic waste of time to spend building multiple bosses for one creature. I’d rather they just build bosses targeting certain groups of players, or build better dungeons instead.
waste of time to one man, good content to another, they can also spawn multiple bosses, say an ogre and his brother or new hazards in the area. Would actually make dynamic events you know, dynamic
like i said, i think they are looking to your WvW history to decide what server you belong to.
If this is the case, it means hopping serves will be pointless, unless you can contribute enough in time to make you shift to your new server’s reward.
If its how i say, i think its good. As far as season rewards go, you can only get credit for where you have done most of your WvWing
the way i read the last part, is you will be associated with a world based on your WvW history, aka if you ve been a DragonBrander for 3 months, you will have and transfer to blackgate day 1, you will have to work your kitten off to be actually considered a blackgater when it comes to rewards.
And i welcome the tournament, where winning matters, and the matchups change all the time. For me WvW isnt the same when i know beating someone one week only means we get 5 more points out of 80000000 in rating.
I do think the Devs need to clarify some things
Stacking as one tactic during a battle is good. Stacking for every encounter as the best answer is bad.
And yes that type of stacking gives the trinity
rebirth in some ways.
You ve made the enemy controlled and predictable. You now can apply the standard trinity equation to the fight.
Dps versus healing and survivability.
It turns the battle back into a simulation.
Ideally I think the battle should involve stacking at key times but not the 100% face tank or die meta we see so often in dungeons
So, I bought GW2 on release day. I originally played a Mesmer with my buddy up to ~14, then I rerolled various times as he continued up to 35 and beyond. Less than a week later when I had gotten my Thief high enough to attempt AC story mode, we found a group and entered for our first dungeon run in GW2. We had no idea the hell we were in for…
I’m sure you all know the rest of that story – anyways, I quit and came back various times after that and the last time I played, I actually had a reasonable amount of fun but ended up not playing due to lack of time between school and 50 hour work weeks. I now have time to play and want to give it a shot, but the dungeons and mid/upper-level leveling content has me a bit worried.
It seems like in this game, I’m always fighting my way uphill. In the snow, without shoes or a coat. With a strap attached to a bus tied to my waist that I have to drag up with me. I know everyone hates these comparisons, but it feels similar to trying to play WoW to max level in level 30 gear.
Granted, I only have about 180 hours logged and a lot of it is from leveling low level characters, crafting or sitting in towns while I’m AFK. And, most of it is all split up so a lot of the knowledge and skills I may have gained were lost.
My question is, does it get better? I’ve played WoW from launch as well as various other MMO’s and the best way to put it is that in GW2, it feels like as I level up more, despite keeping gear up-to-date, I start to become undergeared and underpowered in comparison to the mobs. I understand the concept of dodging and such, but certainly as a melee there’s no way to entirely avoid damage, yet I feel like I’m often being downed in one or two hits that happen so quickly in succession that they’re unavoidable.
I suppose the other thing is that even when I do large upgrades to my entire set of gear,
I never really feel like I’m gaining much power – it almost feels like all the stats are entirely useless. I’ve played games where you definitely have to focus on the little boosts to provide one moderate boost and that’s all you get, but in GW2 it seems like you have to have a lot of huge boosts to provide one barely noticeable boost at all, lol.Otherwise, the game looks like a lot of fun. I enjoy the scenery, and the videos of the new fights look really cool. I’d really love to check out the living story stuff as well, but if it always feels like this, I’m a bit afraid to give it much of a shot.
Am I somehow missing some major key things that make the game more fun and accessible to someone that wants to casually play without being destroyed, or do you pretty much just go along with the idea that anytime a mob breathes on you in GW2, you’re going to lose half of your HP, even if geared somewhat tanky?
its not really as much about dodge as people make it out to be.
the key here is in GW, its about using defensive abilities at the right times. dodge is just one of them.
some of the big ones are, immobilize and cripple if you are playing ranged
blind
signet of malice if you hit quickly/multiple targets
flanking strike-sword dagger 3
deathblossom -dual dagger 3
headshot- daze offhand pistol 4
smoke screen
theres more, but essentially, theif especially is about active defense, its not the stats which make you surivable as much as its using skills at the right time. or the right combination of traits/playstyle.
mesmer is also an active defense class.
warrior is probably the most passive defense class, with high hp, a strong heal over time, a dmg reduction signet, and banners if you are looking for something simpler
Hmmm…
I think they should work out some of the kinks with the current professions before they start even considering adding more classes.
Just my opinion though.
nah thatd take forever. its been 17 months and that hasnt happened. I dont think they should go another 17 without some big changes
So instead, they should add more classes to further imbalance the game, creating even more complaints about how imbalanced everything is?
I’m trying to figure out what sort of scenario in which that would be a good idea. So far, I can’t come up with one.
Unless…
The new race’s imbalance overshadowed all other imbalances by such a wide margin that everything else looked balanced by comparison.
You might have something here…
In that case, I suggest the new class be the “Iwin” class. Anyone that rolls said class starts out at level 90 with all Ascended gear. It should be a heavy armor class, be able to use any weapon combination, and be able to use the best skills from each other class. It should be able to see through stealth, should be immune to damage and should have a 1200 radius heal that ticks for 1000 health per second. Make that 10000 health per second.
And to top it all off, all skills go off simultaneously with the press of one button that the player chooses. I personally would choose the space bar, since it’s the largest button on the keyboard, so there’s less of a chance of missing it.
Hmmm… magic find should start off at 9001%.
balance is never acheived anyhow. look at fighting games, they balance and release new charachters periodically. Even though SF has been out since the 80s, they still arent balanced.
So really you are saying they should sit around tweaking the same old skills and same old charachters forever and never add anything of import? Are you really going to play the same classes with the same skills with the same content over and over with nothing new?
Most people arent playing a class because its OP, they are playing a class because they like the idea behind the class and find it fun. Same reason why people play teir 5 charachters in fighting games. Having a perfectly balanced game is highly overated, having a game with new interesting content/variation is way more profitable apealing and entertaining.
The most balanced game would have 1 class, it would also be boring as hellActually, I agree with you 100% that true class balance can never exist. In my experience, the best “balance” I’ve ever seen is the “rock-paper-scissors” style of balance. It’s not balanced exactly, but there is always a specific class that outshines the other classes in something.
In Guild Wars 2, however, it would seem (by accounts on the forum more than personal experience), that what we have is a couple of classes that can do pretty much everything (I’m talking PvE more than anything else), while certain classes are left as being substandard in pretty much every aspect of PvE.
In my opinion, the game needs more of an equilibrium of class value before we go adding another class to the mix.
In essence, fix the broken stuff before adding more broken stuff.
I think most of the PVE imbalances are more about perception and the meta that was created by and for a select few classes. Theres also differences in learning curve with certain classes. There are some issues yes, but they arent really making it to where you cant succeed at pve unless you are A B or C. However the playerbase will tell you that you cant succeed at A B C.
Hmmm…
I think they should work out some of the kinks with the current professions before they start even considering adding more classes.
Just my opinion though.
nah thatd take forever. its been 17 months and that hasnt happened. I dont think they should go another 17 without some big changes
So instead, they should add more classes to further imbalance the game, creating even more complaints about how imbalanced everything is?
I’m trying to figure out what sort of scenario in which that would be a good idea. So far, I can’t come up with one.
Unless…
The new race’s imbalance overshadowed all other imbalances by such a wide margin that everything else looked balanced by comparison.
You might have something here…
In that case, I suggest the new class be the “Iwin” class. Anyone that rolls said class starts out at level 90 with all Ascended gear. It should be a heavy armor class, be able to use any weapon combination, and be able to use the best skills from each other class. It should be able to see through stealth, should be immune to damage and should have a 1200 radius heal that ticks for 1000 health per second. Make that 10000 health per second.
And to top it all off, all skills go off simultaneously with the press of one button that the player chooses. I personally would choose the space bar, since it’s the largest button on the keyboard, so there’s less of a chance of missing it.
Hmmm… magic find should start off at 9001%.
balance is never acheived anyhow. look at fighting games, they balance and release new charachters periodically. Even though SF has been out since the 80s, they still arent balanced.
So really you are saying they should sit around tweaking the same old skills and same old charachters forever and never add anything of import? Are you really going to play the same classes with the same skills with the same content over and over with nothing new?
Most people arent playing a class because its OP, they are playing a class because they like the idea behind the class and find it fun. Same reason why people play teir 5 charachters in fighting games. Having a perfectly balanced game is highly overated, having a game with new interesting content/variation is way more profitable apealing and entertaining.
The most balanced game would have 1 class, it would also be boring as hell
Hmmm…
I think they should work out some of the kinks with the current professions before they start even considering adding more classes.
Just my opinion though.
nah thatd take forever. its been 17 months and that hasnt happened. I dont think they should go another 17 without some big changes
People are misunderstanding me. I’m aware that stacking is the most effective way of dealing with pve right now. But is it satisfying, or even interesting? Is it challenging (not saying that normal pve is that challenging as a whole) in the slightest?
No, it is not interesting, yes, it is satisfying.
Heres something for you: I -and many others as well- know basically every freakin stone there is in game, ive done and seen it all. There is nothing left to do other than seeing what the new patch brought out – which is hardly enough for 2 weeks. So we have to set goals for ourself. Skins that we like for our alts or things like that. And what have they all in common? They cost gold, and often alot of it. Now, anything that is fun or interesting in this game doesnt bring any gold at all.
We are left with two options: Champ train or Speed clearing. I did choose the latter because i can chit chalk with my friends and have a laugh or two since we dont really have to pay attention anymore.
I did the dungeon and fractals “the way they are intended” the first, second, maybe even third time, was quite fun. But after running them a thousand times and seeing them every day i dont care anymore. Running around, stacking, whatever, i find it horribly boring either way. I just want to have it done as fast as possible. And now, every day or so some funny guy like you comes around saying our time for dungeons and therefore gold income should get nerfed for no other reason other than you dont like it.
Wth, these must be some champtrainers being envy of speedclearers doing more gold than them, there is no other reason people could seriously suggest other people should get less gold for such selfish reasons.
I did them a 1000 times, i learned all there is to know, what does that, what encounter does this, the players have earned their rights and skills to do these dungeons that fast and im glad anet allows it instead of forcing the players to do exactly how they want them to play.
Stacking is not easier or more braindead than running around. As already suggested thousand times, if you want to play like that than search for players playing like that. If you want still more challenge, go naked or with some trashbuild or whatever do i care.
Please stop to offend other peoples playstyles for your ridiculously selfish reasons.
what you are saying is essentially the game is now boring, so i want to get it done as fast as possible. Your main motivation is the large amount of gold required for anything you do.
I say they should be working on making the game more interesting, and try to lessen the OPness of gold per hour as the only thing that matters in the game.
Create AI scrpts/encounters that cause challenging fights that feel different, and dungeons that are different each time you do them, with many objectives and ways to complete them.
Reward people appropriately for said content.
Speed clearing as a game style is cool, but it should be less about rote memorization (though it should be a factor) and more about dealing with each situation.
Best speed clear type mechanic i played was phantasy star challenge mode. The levels were a combination of puzzles, tricks and straight up fighting, with multiple paths to success, speed clearing required teamwork skill, and a bit of luck. Enemies were randomized, and every time you did the same level it played out differently.
I mean i take what you said in your post as GW has failed to deliver interesting lasting content, and now its all about grinding in order to get gold. To top it off the best ways to get gold are the least interesting.
I agree, and disagree, i agree with 2, but i dont think making items more rare is really the answer. Champ box exotics are plenty rare. Its just that frostgorge champ training has many many players opening them repeatedly, even with that, they have some that still fetch a good price.
Also note, the drop rate on DoA items wasnt that bad, the overal reward design was well done.
the reward system basically gave 10 items needed on completion, the total needed was 60, however there was also rare drops that could lessen it. Also the items were broken down, and awarded in a way that made you do different things in different orders (makes each playthrough a little different), or gave the possibility of doing only one part of the dungeon for a partial reward. The grind was low, the drop rate wasnt bad, and people did it repeatedly for years. If you did on hardmode you substantially increased gains
there are better solutions than grind. They should have used ascended to incentivize desired play, not to clean up excess materials from the TP
DOA was a grind as well you are aware of that? Grind means doing same content repetitively over and over. To get the reward for DOA you need to do it 6 times for 1 reward. Farming and Grinding are the same thing just one is positive and the other negative. Champ exotic boxes are common not rare even in QDCT you can get a large number of them in a short amount of time. Also have to consider that GW1 did not have a supported economy meaning that the supply of the items was not known.
What you just described is grind and all MMORPGs use grind. All endgame is grind. At least Anet gives us new content usually every 2 weeks to negate the grind.
grind is doing a lot of the same simple repetive task over and over again.
DoA required you to beat it 4-6 times on normal or 3 times on hard. They broke up the drops so that in order to do it effeciently you take different paths, which changes the overall feel and flow of the area. To be honest, by the time me and my friend successfully duoed it to completion, i had close to enough materials for the weapon anyhow. (from fails and learning the event)
So for me it was zero grind, just in the course of learning and completing the dungeon successfully, i was able to get an item. Not every game created is a grind, though mmos often use grind as an easy answer.Yes but by the definition of a grind you were grinding it but it didn’t feel like doesn’t change the fact that you repeated the content over and over lol. I do not repeat the same content over and over. I actually go do many things and travel to different locations (I actually have characters set at different locations for different things i want to do the joys of having 10 characters saves me money on WP).
I didnt repeat it over and over.
i got 60 of the necessary item in the efforts of beating it one time.
Each time you play, you can choose the opponents in a different order, which has the effect of making each run different, since you come into the area from a different side, and have to fight groups differently
to make it clear, grind is not any activity that you have to repeat more than once. Its a simple activity that you have to complete many times
Dancing for 5 minutes is not a grind
walking up 200 flights of stairs is a grind
both involve taking steps repeatedly, but dancing generally doesnt involve simple steps, also you are doing it for only 5 minutes, so its not that repetitive. 200 flights of steps is the same motion you do for one step over the course of 200 flights. sure you can take 1 step a day, or stop and hang out at every flight. But its still 200 flights of steps.
MMO companies need to stop building steps to nowhere so they can seem like they have an interesting building, the steps dont make the building interesting
I agree, and disagree, i agree with 2, but i dont think making items more rare is really the answer. Champ box exotics are plenty rare. Its just that frostgorge champ training has many many players opening them repeatedly, even with that, they have some that still fetch a good price.
Also note, the drop rate on DoA items wasnt that bad, the overal reward design was well done.
the reward system basically gave 10 items needed on completion, the total needed was 60, however there was also rare drops that could lessen it. Also the items were broken down, and awarded in a way that made you do different things in different orders (makes each playthrough a little different), or gave the possibility of doing only one part of the dungeon for a partial reward. The grind was low, the drop rate wasnt bad, and people did it repeatedly for years. If you did on hardmode you substantially increased gains
there are better solutions than grind. They should have used ascended to incentivize desired play, not to clean up excess materials from the TP
DOA was a grind as well you are aware of that? Grind means doing same content repetitively over and over. To get the reward for DOA you need to do it 6 times for 1 reward. Farming and Grinding are the same thing just one is positive and the other negative. Champ exotic boxes are common not rare even in QDCT you can get a large number of them in a short amount of time. Also have to consider that GW1 did not have a supported economy meaning that the supply of the items was not known.
What you just described is grind and all MMORPGs use grind. All endgame is grind. At least Anet gives us new content usually every 2 weeks to negate the grind.
grind is doing a lot of the same simple repetive task over and over again.
DoA required you to beat it 4-6 times on normal or 3 times on hard. They broke up the drops so that in order to do it effeciently you take different paths, which changes the overall feel and flow of the area. To be honest, by the time me and my friend successfully duoed it to completion, i had close to enough materials for the weapon anyhow. (from fails and learning the event)
So for me it was zero grind, just in the course of learning and completing the dungeon successfully, i was able to get an item. Not every game created is a grind, though mmos often use grind as an easy answer.
Yes but you can tell the quality of work just by looking at it. A 15min artist can make a good piece of art fast, but its quality will suffer. A big example when it comes to art is how in painting you don’t want to rush at all if you do you are going to make a huge amount of mistakes (I don’t count modern art as art I am talking historical style paintings).
They are not controlling the economy as much as you may want to think they are. The economy is controlled by the players, but Anet can influence it. Supply and Demand is how it works in GW2. You do not need Ascended to do the content of the game therefor its a want. By wanting it your creating a demand for the materials to make it.
If you did not want it than there would not be a demand meaning prices would be unaffected by its appearance. Such as if Anet threw in a really really hard to make sword legendary sword that required using 4 legendary weapons to make it but it looked the exact same as the starting sword with the stats of a legendary, there would be little to no demand for it. Its appearance in the game world would have 0 effect expect the rage of people who would criticize its very existence.
This is a free market economy where the entire market is controlled by supply and demand. Anet is only controlling supply and providing new demands much like nature, and advancement does.
Lets use your example for example about sand and putting it into a cup into proper context. Lets say you need to place 10000 grains of sand into a cup, but you can only put it in 1 at a time to get this reward that you want. Now how do you go about getting this done?
Options:
- Spend hours each day placing each grain of sand into the cup.
- Place a couple into the cup then go do something else for the rest of the day and repeat each day. A tiny bit extra sand grains will go in without your help.
- Place one into the cup each time you wake up then do whatever you want. A few extra sand grains will go in without your help.
- Ignore the reward and do what you want to do.
In option #2, #3, and #4 by playing you are still working towards the reward but indirectly even if your actively seeking
spending more time doesnt necessarily make better art, many of the things i have worked the longest on were not my best work. However ill admit i dont place polish over inspiration.
as far as the sand issue, yes those are your options, but why would someone design such a task to begin with? its a grind and you can only choose how to handle the grind. But anet created the grind. If you want people to enjoy playing why not get them to do things that are enjoyable, or showcase the strengths of your game.
i dont have a problem with dragonite empyreals and bloodstone because you get them doing the things the game excels at. PVE empyreal is about exploration and wandering the world or dungeons. Dragonite is open world bosses with a focus on Orr temples (which are in general some of the better designed dynamic events) bloodstone is champions, which you find in open world, dungeons, fractals etc(not that great design wise but ehh you usually get enough by accident anyhow).
7200 silk on the other hand….
Rng needs to be increased as well as items need to be obtained only in certain areas. Rarity is what creates value. Everyday loot is spat into our faces and yet we are still unhappy. Why should we be happy with the rare sword that you got from the warm when other players got the same from elsewhere. The more common it is the lower the price.
Grind is necessary to keep interest. Your not being forced to make asc or legendaries, but then again what other real interest is there to keep you logging everyday? While I don’t like asc gear what they have done for the economy is unquestionable. Anet made the horrible mistake of allowing top end armor to be earned through dungeon tokens. However by doing that they cut out nearly all of the reason for mats. Why spend time gathering and crafting when I can get the same stat armor for free and still earn money.
You say that the amount of silk required is unreasonable but yet I willing to be you are thrilled when you salvage a few scraps. Tell me then how thrilled you are when you get thick leather? Is it more or less excitement? Is your first reaction to list it on the to or merchant/destroy it? How is it that there is such a radical difference between 2 t5 mats?
From what I get from your position is that there isn’t enough RNG to certain items?
Do you want to increase the difficulty of obtaining certain objects?I do agree with your position however about how the RNG on most of the objects is extremely low which is generating huge supply that no one wants. It is also causing disinterest in loot drops. From what I seen no one really cares about rares expect for salvage to get ectos.
I do think there needs to be more uses for the materials and the crafting system needs a lot of work. If following the logic of other MMO’s crafting systems the higher the tier the harder it should be to craft. The current crafting system is starting to turn in this direction but needs a bit more of a push. Leather being one needing the push.
Before ascended bottom and top tiers were the easiest to make (and cheapest) but the middle tiers were actually the most expensive (some of the materials were 1-2s each). Since Ascended crafting that has leveled out and is now in a more proper triangle and not an hour glass shape.
I do agree with the design flaws mentioned with dungeon tokens and exotics. As well about the grind since that’s all the rest of the end game of other MMO’s is essentially.
1. Yes if you compare champ weapons price when they first came out to now there is a giant drop in price. Excluding precursors all exotics except for select few are 1-2 gold. Sure if rng is increased people will cry out worthless grind but in the long run items will carry more of a value. Precursors aren’t cheap because they are easy to come by.
2. By harder I mean limiting the areas in which you could obtain them. As phys said here he did doa to obtain a torment weapon. If you wanted a dhuum scythe you could only get it from the uw zone. The highly desired weapons such as chaos axe, voltaic spear and such had specific areas that you had to do.
@phys yes it is an endless grind because it’s the same results. You don’t do dungeons like you did in gw1 because there really isn’t much a point with no chance of a valued item. Anything gained in the dungeon can be earned faster outside. So then what are you left with ? Well you got 20-25 silver for rare armor 20-35 silver for rare weapon the low end being spears, tridents and the high being great sword, maybe you were lucky and got an Exotic so add 1-2 gold with a rare chance that it was valuable or had something valuable and the rest being 40copper to 1.67 silver mixed w/b/g unless you salvage them to increase your luck.
I agree, and disagree, i agree with 2, but i dont think making items more rare is really the answer. Champ box exotics are plenty rare. Its just that frostgorge champ training has many many players opening them repeatedly, even with that, they have some that still fetch a good price.
Also note, the drop rate on DoA items wasnt that bad, the overal reward design was well done.
the reward system basically gave 10 items needed on completion, the total needed was 60, however there was also rare drops that could lessen it. Also the items were broken down, and awarded in a way that made you do different things in different orders (makes each playthrough a little different), or gave the possibility of doing only one part of the dungeon for a partial reward. The grind was low, the drop rate wasnt bad, and people did it repeatedly for years. If you did on hardmode you substantially increased gains
there are better solutions than grind. They should have used ascended to incentivize desired play, not to clean up excess materials from the TP
Its not really a free market economy, anet created a silk event by making an item than needs 300 silk scraps every day or you fall behind, eliminating viability of dynamic event spam/mass monster killing. And making cloth have no direct means of obtainability. They also designed ascended so the base inscription uses 3 cloth, which means every armor needs it
The economy is controlled, we get to effect it, but it is by no means a free market. This is expected, but it means that many times when there is an economic problem it is the direct result of anets manipulations.
Designing best in slot to take 1 month of semi hardcore play, and 2-3 months of casual play is a bad design. Especially considering its only 1 stat selection, on one charachter. The point of their time gates was supposed to allow them to make things not as grindy, but take longer. ascended armor takes long AND requires 2 hours of grind per day for 23-28 days. even if you space it out, its still there.
Whether you are ok with grind design or not, you cannot say its not grindy, and you cant say its less grindy than other MMOs,
I do believe that Ascended weapons and armor are rather grindy, but IMHO they weren’t meant to be acquired right away by all players, and some players, including me, don’t even go for them. I don’t feel left out by refusing to join the grind. I keep having fun with full exotics, as it’s my practical BiS, and one I can play happily with. Ascended was added, after all, to appease players who wanted “something to do”-and something to do-grind for-they were given indeed.
Note I am not saying it’s “wrong” to go for Ascended, but rather that you must be willing to pay the price, or be patient and get them in a longer while.
(Ascended trinkets are not that hard to obtain nowadays, and seem to me way more practical than Ascended weapons and armor.)
Problem is, imo the answer was not grind, some people wanted long term things to work for, but you should use your rewards and goals as master of the game to promote the activities you feel enhance enjoyment from gameplay. If you want people to have a good time at a party, you dont reward them for doing things no one likes doing. You reward them for doing the fun things you want people to do at your party, like dancing, singing, drinking, eating.
You dont make people say, thats an awesome party by offering 200 dollars to the whoever does the most paperwork. And while its possible to say hey, the only way to have fun at this party is to ignore the paperwork for money offer, why would the throwers of the party offer a paperwork prize when they could be incentivizing the behavior they want people to have at the party?
The reason wow put thier items in raids, is because it was their best designed content. It showcases many of the games strengths and gives the players directions and goals. Im not saying GW2 should put items in raids, but i dont think they should be leading people to try to do whatever degenerative farming fad is going on right now, or killing 10000 too weak monsters
its a grind because it requires a massive amount of simple work. whether you do a grind over 1 day or 10000 its still a grind. If somebody asks me to fill up a glass 1 grain of sand at a time its a grind, it doesnt make it less of a grind to do it over the course of 1 year or 1 day. The grind is set in stone, you can choose to power through it, or choose to do it over the course of a long period, its still a grind. A non grindy design doesnt make you put sand in a glass 1 grain at a time.
Anet is not really nature and science because they made ascended take up the materials it did as a means of economic manipulation. It has nothing to do with lore, science the nature of the world, it was basically like, we have a lot of silk, lets create a high demand for silk.
Its perfectly within the parameters of what they should be doing as the masters of the game, but it means that they are controlling the economy. The main facet of an economy is goods and services, anet altered how many silk are required to make one bolt, they doubled the teir 5 material cost for damask as compared to other teir 7 mats. That is not a free market. Its controlling goods and services.
As for your creating art comment i wish it was like creating art, i am an artist, and every artist is different some take days, others take minutes, its based on the skill, tempermant and vision of the artist. I know people who can create in 15 minutes what it takes others days to do. I know some who would prefer to take months to work on peice whereas other would rip their heads off first.
Than play normally rather than trying to grind. I go into an area for a material but end up having a ton of fun just because I do what I want to do. Also, 25-28 days is not long at all if you stop to think about it. Legendary is supposed to take years to make, but people rushed it. Ascended was designed to take months they even put time gates in for that reason as well to prevent people from rushing it but still leaving it open for sellers and buyers to rush.
The ascended and legendary are not meant to be grindy but people are forcing the grind on themselves cause they want it now which is against the design decision of months to acquire. So basically all your trying to do is rush it when its designed not be rushed which is creating a grind.
Its like trying to create a piece of art. If you rush it, its not as fun and is a dreadful process. If you take your time you will get much better results and have more fun in the process.
there is no way to make 1 bolt of damask per day in a normal amount of time without grinding. silk is just the daily requirement.
you actually need 300 silk 40 linen 20 cotton 40 wool each day. There are not many ways to get that other than hunt certain monsters at certain levels, or buy it on the TP.And yes i understand they designed it this way, im just saying its a very grindy design by its very nature. you have two choices, either get 13 gold in materials each day, or farm 13 gold in materials each day, either case requires on average 2-3 hours of play dedicated to just that one aspect. The most effecient ways to do that are to grind.
And this is only for 1 item in the process, you still need either ascended metal leather, or even more damask, gold for recipes, laurels dragonite empyreal and bloodstone.Is it possible? yes. Do you have to grind? yes. is there anyway to do it without grinding? not really, unless you dont mind taking 2-3 months for one armor set.
As I stated above it is supposed to take months to make one armour set. By Grinding it your rushing it and that’s against the design. Your right now by grinding it doing more harm than good to yourself as evidence that your not having as much fun from playing a game. Plus by waiting for those 2-3 months everyone else has grinded themselves into a frenzy (forums showing evidence of frenzy against grinding on a repeat cycle corresponding directly with Ascended releases than mellowing out afterwards). After each frenzy the price of the materials stabilizes. Right now they are high because people are buying it.
This is a free market economy run completely by supply and demand. At this point since your grinding and wanting it right now along with the large portion of the player base the demand will be high with supply lower. By playing and playing the game as designed I avoid high costs while at the same time gain the materials myself.
Right now I could flood the market with silk raking in a huge profit than waiting for a price drop that will come in about 2-3 months (or less) and get my own gear.
Like stated why go against the design?
Its not really a free market economy, anet created a silk event by making an item than needs 300 silk scraps every day or you fall behind, eliminating viability of dynamic event spam/mass monster killing. And making cloth have no direct means of obtainability. They also designed ascended so the base inscription uses 3 cloth, which means every armor needs it
The economy is controlled, we get to effect it, but it is by no means a free market. This is expected, but it means that many times when there is an economic problem it is the direct result of anets manipulations.
Designing best in slot to take 1 month of semi hardcore play, and 2-3 months of casual play is a bad design. Especially considering its only 1 stat selection, on one charachter. The point of their time gates was supposed to allow them to make things not as grindy, but take longer. ascended armor takes long AND requires 2 hours of grind per day for 23-28 days. even if you space it out, its still there.
Not only that, but the type of hours that are required are either, best money farm hours, or repetitive killing of weak monsters in limited locations in order to be efficient. Its not like 60 hours of exploration, adventure, and challenging content. Its kill 20000 pirates or 4000 champions on a champ train.
Whether you are ok with grind design or not, you cannot say its not grindy, and you cant say its less grindy than other MMOs,
(edited by phys.7689)
Rng needs to be increased as well as items need to be obtained only in certain areas. Rarity is what creates value. Everyday loot is spat into our faces and yet we are still unhappy. Why should we be happy with the rare sword that you got from the warm when other players got the same from elsewhere. The more common it is the lower the price.
Grind is necessary to keep interest. Your not being forced to make asc or legendaries, but then again what other real interest is there to keep you logging everyday? While I don’t like asc gear what they have done for the economy is unquestionable. Anet made the horrible mistake of allowing top end armor to be earned through dungeon tokens. However by doing that they cut out nearly all of the reason for mats. Why spend time gathering and crafting when I can get the same stat armor for free and still earn money.
You say that the amount of silk required is unreasonable but yet I willing to be you are thrilled when you salvage a few scraps. Tell me then how thrilled you are when you get thick leather? Is it more or less excitement? Is your first reaction to list it on the to or merchant/destroy it? How is it that there is such a radical difference between 2 t5 mats?
nah, the grind is too endless to excite me. now i get silk and it reminds me that tommorow i just have to somehow get another 300 pieces. And there are other ways to excite players. I was excited in GW1 playing Domain of Anguish, and you only needed 60 gemstones to get items from there.
I believe players need goals, and things they can work towards, but this execution feels like a job. The best methods of achieving it(aside from tp marketing) are doing what is essentially a repetitive simple task. This is what grind is.
Than play normally rather than trying to grind. I go into an area for a material but end up having a ton of fun just because I do what I want to do. Also, 25-28 days is not long at all if you stop to think about it. Legendary is supposed to take years to make, but people rushed it. Ascended was designed to take months they even put time gates in for that reason as well to prevent people from rushing it but still leaving it open for sellers and buyers to rush.
The ascended and legendary are not meant to be grindy but people are forcing the grind on themselves cause they want it now which is against the design decision of months to acquire. So basically all your trying to do is rush it when its designed not be rushed which is creating a grind.
Its like trying to create a piece of art. If you rush it, its not as fun and is a dreadful process. If you take your time you will get much better results and have more fun in the process.
there is no way to make 1 bolt of damask per day in a normal amount of time without grinding. silk is just the daily requirement.
you actually need 300 silk 40 linen 20 cotton 40 wool each day. There are not many ways to get that other than hunt certain monsters at certain levels, or buy it on the TP.
And yes i understand they designed it this way, im just saying its a very grindy design by its very nature. you have two choices, either get 13 gold in materials each day, or farm 13 gold in materials each day, either case requires on average 2-3 hours of play dedicated to just that one aspect. The most effecient ways to do that are to grind.
And this is only for 1 item in the process, you still need either ascended metal leather, or even more damask, gold for recipes, laurels dragonite empyreal and bloodstone.
Is it possible? yes. Do you have to grind? yes. is there anyway to do it without grinding? not really, unless you dont mind taking 2-3 months for one armor set.
In case of the mesmer feedback bubble, its a reactionary skill many times, so if the enemy uses his big projectile mesmer pops feedback regardless of what other fields are already present.
You seem to misunderstand how combo fields actually work. There is no problem whatsoever in popping feedback with a fire field up, as the finishers will hit the fire field. Same with the field from guardian hammer AA.
As long as the fire field is placed first, you will get might stacks.
you sure about that? im pretty sure the most recent field wins sec gonna test it out
tested it seems to be as you say
interesting and good to know. thanks for the info
(edited by phys.7689)
People forget its not just legendaries that are grind its Ascended and any items that require stupidly high amounts of resources and rare resources, make an insane money, time and farm grind all of which are far far higher than most other mmorpg’s.
Even some Korean grinders i’ve played do not even come close to what Guildwars 2 grind asks for. Its optional yes but so is playing Guildwars 2.
Ascended is not grindy at all if you play normally. I am playing normally and got a ton of materials just sitting waiting for me to make ascended armour. Hell if I decided to go full out grinding I could have easily have enough materials for several sets of ascended in about 3-4 days. Only thing that would prevent me now would be time gating but I would have enough silk and other things at the ready.
tell me what your normal play day is like, and how you get 300 scraps silk per day. Keep in mind if you have been saving it for months, or using your saved resources from months, its taking a long time its just something you did before.
btw, one set of ascended is about 7200 silk scraps which is about 28 slots of bank space, that ONLY represents the silk part.
My current supply is from previous months but getting 300 scraps isn’t that hard (if drops are in your favor). In one my full days off (on these days i play 14hrs. My regular day is only 1hr to 3hrs) I could get 500+ scraps easily this was during the time that scraps were worthless so no one farmed them so if I went and focused on it I could achieve much higher rates. I remember having to merch stacks of it just because i already had 1 stack in my collection bank and 2 stacks in my inventory. That was me just playing normally. I play mostly WvW which means the drops vary greatly.
there is currently no way to get 500 scraps in 1.5 hours without buying it. scraps only come from salvage, and enemy bags. Since mass murdering of many enemies is no longer meta, it isnt as easy to get. enemy bag silk drop rates seem lower to me than in the past. Only get tailor materials like 1/7 bags, whereas before, a great many bags seem to contain leather and cloth.
perhaps if you could get like 15-20 peops to do event chains like they used to.
Dude I am mostly a solo player and WvW will always have zerg fights (mass murder). I also play ranger especially for tagging from long range. If there is a will there is a way. When people where farming Orr i was not there. Where ever people are farming I tend to avoid that area (expect if I need to be there) QD I used to play all the time till the QD train now i only go there when i need to finish my monthly since i tend to lack killing. I have my own means to gain materials in large quantities (depending on the material). Silk is one my easiest to gain materials.
WvW zerg fight availability varies from server to server and week to week. Anyhow like i said, i dont think a player should be required to do repetive task aimed primarily at effeciently obtaining materials for 1.5 hours a day, for 25-28 days straight in order to even have a chance of getting ascended armor done within 25-28 days
i literally spent like 1hour getting 50 linen scraps yesterday solo, i was basically running around in circles killing mobs in high respawn areas, which is essentially degenerative gameplay as far as anet is concerned. this is what grindy essentially means.
… the problem with your theory here is essentially guardian, whose AA puts down a field. Point is, its all good to say coordinate, but asking your guardian not to use AA for 10 seconds is a bad idea, likewise some reactive or protective skills are fields.
should a mesmer let people get hit for 10 seconds before using feedback?
No, you have it backwards. The player laying a fire field for might stacks, or any other field for the purpose of combos, should not be putting it on top of these other fields.
if your goal is to give the melee might, most people will have to put the field around the monster, which is wear the guardians AA skills often place their light fields.
In case of the mesmer feedback bubble, its a reactionary skill many times, so if the enemy uses his big projectile mesmer pops feedback regardless of what other fields are already present.
People forget its not just legendaries that are grind its Ascended and any items that require stupidly high amounts of resources and rare resources, make an insane money, time and farm grind all of which are far far higher than most other mmorpg’s.
Even some Korean grinders i’ve played do not even come close to what Guildwars 2 grind asks for. Its optional yes but so is playing Guildwars 2.
Ascended is not grindy at all if you play normally. I am playing normally and got a ton of materials just sitting waiting for me to make ascended armour. Hell if I decided to go full out grinding I could have easily have enough materials for several sets of ascended in about 3-4 days. Only thing that would prevent me now would be time gating but I would have enough silk and other things at the ready.
tell me what your normal play day is like, and how you get 300 scraps silk per day. Keep in mind if you have been saving it for months, or using your saved resources from months, its taking a long time its just something you did before.
btw, one set of ascended is about 7200 silk scraps which is about 28 slots of bank space, that ONLY represents the silk part.
My current supply is from previous months but getting 300 scraps isn’t that hard (if drops are in your favor). In one my full days off (on these days i play 14hrs. My regular day is only 1hr to 3hrs) I could get 500+ scraps easily this was during the time that scraps were worthless so no one farmed them so if I went and focused on it I could achieve much higher rates. I remember having to merch stacks of it just because i already had 1 stack in my collection bank and 2 stacks in my inventory. That was me just playing normally. I play mostly WvW which means the drops vary greatly.
there is currently no way to get 500 scraps in 1.5 hours without buying it. scraps only come from salvage, and enemy bags. Since mass murdering of many enemies is no longer meta, it isnt as easy to get. enemy bag silk drop rates seem lower to me than in the past. Only get tailor materials like 1/7 bags, whereas before, a great many bags seem to contain leather and cloth.
perhaps if you could get like 15-20 peops to do event chains like they used to.
also, regardless, we would be talking about hardcore farming, aka grinding. Doing repetitive simple tasks repeatedly in order to obtain the things you want, as opposed to normal play or content.
hardcore grind can be available for some people to profit, but it shouldnt be required for 1.5 hours a day for 1.5 months in order to meet the minimum daily requirement to get your ascended set within 23-28 days
(edited by phys.7689)
@Teofa Tsavo There’s no fragmentation, everything will be moved to the Vigil Keep.
That’s exactely one of the things I don’t like. The Vigil Keep belongs to the Vigil. Everyone who’s not part of the Vigil is nothing more but a guest. Divinities Reach is the humans capital, so everyone not beening a human is only a guest there.
Lions Arch was everyones City.
refugees go where makes sense, and vigil keep is defendable, has an army and is just across gendarren fields.
Who’s betting the kids who have been playing Ghosts non-stop for over a year and a half will be separated? I’m betting a copper!
Speaking of that, I’m wondering how many incidental NPCs are going to get killed.
What’s interesting is what’s going to happen to the Tengu guarding that wall in LA?
Verrrry interesting.
the tengu will not be effected at all, maybe throw out 1 liners.
Razor, I think you’re being put in the ‘casual’ boat because your understanding of stacking portrays you that way. I haven’t played with you before but your implication that stacking is a static activity is not correct from a speed clearing standpoint. It just isn’t.
Trying to build credibility by saying you’ve played since launch or have ascended armor does little here in the Dungeon forums. It’s very much experience based here and your comments toward stacking betray inexperience in speed clearing.
Now, if you’re just messing around in a dungeon and don’t care to clear it fast, you can complete it however you like. Almost all tactics are viable and you can PuG it just fine.
However, if you want fury uptime, 24 stacks of might throughout a fight, Aegis rotations, and 100% DPS uptime, stacking is the optimal tactic. This doesn’t make it brain dead by default. Missing skill rotations, utilities, and tells/dodges will put you down and kill your time.
I highly encourage any people who are ‘against stacking’ to see how it’s done outside a PuG of bads in AC. It would be good to understand it’s about synergy and not ‘stand in 1 spot and auto attack.’
Well i dont know what the super high level dudes are doing, but the pug version of it is a problem. While it should be advantageous, at some times, it should not become an automated system like you describe. If it is not automated, and you are moving in and out of party stacks while dodging key skills, and using positioning to sometimes avoid damage, then whatever you are doing is not the problem he is talking about.
“Doing so makes it easy to abuse boon stacking, heals, combo fields " Support mechanics are abused when they are used as they are intended? what?
Used as intended? So ANet’s initial idea was to have everyone stand in a corner for the entire fight duration, letting monsters get free hits on the group while they faceroll combo fields, heals and all sorts of broken spells in those encounters? (ex: whirlwind type of attacks, dark combo fields for perma blinds).
If that was the “used as intended” design philosophy then I regret buying this game.
you are supposed to stack, then move as needed, or partially stack. The problem has to do with the whole fight being stacked to the point it becomes a simple dps/cure/defense equation. The solution is better monster routines and groups.
People forget its not just legendaries that are grind its Ascended and any items that require stupidly high amounts of resources and rare resources, make an insane money, time and farm grind all of which are far far higher than most other mmorpg’s.
Even some Korean grinders i’ve played do not even come close to what Guildwars 2 grind asks for. Its optional yes but so is playing Guildwars 2.
Ascended is not grindy at all if you play normally. I am playing normally and got a ton of materials just sitting waiting for me to make ascended armour. Hell if I decided to go full out grinding I could have easily have enough materials for several sets of ascended in about 3-4 days. Only thing that would prevent me now would be time gating but I would have enough silk and other things at the ready.
tell me what your normal play day is like, and how you get 300 scraps silk per day. Keep in mind if you have been saving it for months, or using your saved resources from months, its taking a long time its just something you did before.
btw, one set of ascended is about 7200 silk scraps which is about 28 slots of bank space, that ONLY represents the silk part.
(edited by phys.7689)
Those were things they wanted to try and do, not that they were definitely going to do.
Also precursor crafting was never given a date and it’s been stated that they aren’t working on it at the moment.
We did get new skills – or did you miss that every profession has a new healing skill?
actually those were things they said would happen in the year of 2013. They later said somethings MAY not make it in by end of year, they didnt say exactly what, but you can tell by a process of elimantion. However they have never given new dates. Development changes, its understandable, but its not optimal, and they havent really told us what they have planned, but what can you do, they dont want to tell us.
tengu preferably tengu martial artist
People forget its not just legendaries that are grind its Ascended and any items that require stupidly high amounts of resources and rare resources, make an insane money, time and farm grind all of which are far far higher than most other mmorpg’s.
Even some Korean grinders i’ve played do not even come close to what Guildwars 2 grind asks for. Its optional yes but so is playing Guildwars 2.
the implementation of ascended is pretty bad, especially the armor, 300 silk scraps a day, either farm or grind either way it would take an extreme amount of time, and yet they really expect people to do this every day. just for reference, its essentially 6+ gold, which is about 4-6 dungeon runs. If you want to farm it yourself it takes even longer.
but they based it on the economy instead of the actual aquisition. IE we have a lot silk, so lets make it 7200 pieces of silk per set. totally ignoring that in terms of man hours to get that silk, its a huge investment.
What’s the reason each class has to have it’s own unique playstyle? It’d be possible to always spin that into “this is already done by that, that is already done by this”.
There’s already redundancy in the game with existing classes when you look at things from that perspective. Does that mean professions should be removed?
The reasons to add another class are to create a sense of newness somewhat similar to launch, add another niche role to the combat system, to mix up the PvP meta, for fun, and hopefully if a GW1 profession is added to expand upon that professions lore a bit more.
every class right now has a different playstyle, and i have played em all. Anet said it was important to them that new classes bring something different to the table, and not just flavor. Im not saying its the only way, but they said they didnt want to make new classes purely for flavor or cosmetic reasons.
That said, i think there is still a lot of room for new playstyles. Fact is class mechanics tend to drive the way a class feels and plays, except for maybe guardian and necro, their flavor is more a combination of everything they have.
Ask yourself the question, “why do people stack?”
Is it because boss types have huge pools and only 2-3 attacks they rinse repeat and the ability to one shot, or near one shot you? What exactly is fun about this? Mike Tyson was put the the statement that a lot of previous wins had been against lesser boxers that weren’t credible threats to his championship. He replied, “I did exactly what a champ should do with a lesser opponent. I wasted no time and dispatched them quickly.”This is the problem. The bosses aren’t engaging or they are overtly annoying where only one stat layout is needed to be effective. Smart players do what a smart player would do, they waste no time and dispatch it quickly. You’re hating the player and not the game so to speak. Give us bosses that can be engaged multiple ways that are interesting and I’ll bring my A-game, until then..They are nothing more than an obstacle in the way of the gold I want because they just don’t qualify enough to be a challenge where the reward is the enjoyment of beating them.
nah, they dont stack for hp and big attack issues, they stack because it makes the fight into a much simpler simulation. it basically tends to narrow the fight down to a straight up dps def healing equation. less skill and adapting required.
stacking actually increases the effectiveness of enemy attacks.
stacking is faster in the hands of the general populace. Coordinated teams dont gain much from 100% stacking on single mobs. It is more efficient for groups however.
I have been playing this game from headstart (and beta before that.) I have at least 2K hours (probably more) in-game. I have 2 80’s and 6 other characters ranging in level from 20-65. I could have had more 80’s, but I was having way too much fun with the ones I already have. I am maxed in most of the crafting (still need huntsman and tailoring) and I have played every profession at least once. I think my experience in game is pretty well rounded.
I have formed an opinion about GW2 RNG and for better or worse, here it is:
Many people still have the idea that the more you try, the more likely it is that you will get it. In reality, it is not like that at all. If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance to get a particular item, it means that the chances of getting that particular item is the same on the 10,000th time you try as it they are on the first. This is why your friend can get a precursor in one try while you have to spend untold amounts of gold in the MF and still not get it.
The main problem is that the chances need to be tweaked. Not enough to ruin the already inflated economy, but enough so that there is a reasonable chance.
I would be much more willing to part with some of my gold if I knew the exact odds.
Right now, I might as well be playing Powerball (actual odds from their website are 1 in 175,223,510.) Unfortunately, it cost more than a couple bucks (gold) to play the precursor lottery.
In my case, getting a precursor is not something I am actively pursuing. If I have a couple extra things, I’ll toss them into the MF and see what happens, but there are way too many other pursuits that interest me more.
Of course every time you try again you have a 1/10,000 chance. However if you do it twice you changes of getting it are 2 times 1/10.000 because you did it twice, not because the second time there is a bigger change but because you did it 2 times. That is just math.
Anyway, the point is also.. is it fun to grind gold and get it, is it fun the toss things into the MF? Or is it more fun to activly hunt down the item without first grinding.
Of course you can get money while doing stuff you like but for many people hunting down those items is what they like. That is there end-content.
i think this is the biggest flaw with dev strategy, they build their reward systems around the economy, and not the gameplay. They expect people to get gold to buy what they want, which leads to gold hunting being the main game mode. Combine this with the most profitable tasks are going to be the easy/repetitive ones. It made sense in theory, make it so all tasks are equally rewarding and make it so few things are directly huntable, this way people trade get gold and buy what they want doing anything. However since it boils down to gold, whatever gets the most gold is the best answer, hence people work on whatever is current best gold farm, and have to buy what they want. essentially work for a paycheck, buy your item. Not really that adventurous.
They didnt realize that a great many people playing rpg/adventure games like to hunt/aim for/obtain items/skills etc.
I love GW2,
I love this game too!
As for the rest of your post, stacking = strategy. Why let an enemy aggro and run all over the place, when you can have them target one spot?
it is strategy, picking your spot, controlling teh battlefield. However enemies fall for it to easily, and they have little good response to getting wailed on.
take a ranged charachter for example, yeah hes going to try to hit you, but once he has line of sight, should he stay and get wailed on by 5 guys, or make a big circle and maintain a ranged advantage if he can.
If you are a powerhouse, you should unleash powerful cleaves, knockdowns, or use skills like shields, or endure pain when the enemy buffs are high
If your a necro/condition users, you should dip within range then out and put wells and other such attacks, then retreat.
point is, the routines the enemies use are too simple, and give stacking a bigger advantage than it should. The only way to solve this is to make their routines a bit more complex. Some enemies should fall for it sure, but that should be by design, not a sort of always the best answer card.
The lore of the dervish does not work in GW2 since the God’s have left the world. Along with what would make them unique over the other classes. Each class has to have a unique play style.
How would the dervish play? What would make them stand out from the other classes. Out of all the ideas thrown around all are similarities to the other classes in gameplay style.
As Anet has stated they will make another class (heavy) if they can think of play style that is different from the other 8 professions.
not saying dervish is a great idea, but the gods left way before GW1 took place.
As far as how to make dervish into a unique class, you think of the overall playstyle, and the class mechanics. Class mechanics define classes in this game more than anything else.
If we try to go with a boon heavy class, well guardian and ele got that.
They could probably make a class that had a lot of transformative skills (which doesnt currently exist) but what else would define it, and which armor would you put them in?
I mean they could make a dervish, but it wouldnt look the same, and probably wouldnt share that much mechanics. Would you be satisfied with a totally different dervish?
You might’ve not understood me. I did not say that you could blast only your own field, but if there is a bunch of fields in front of a boss that if you place your own field and you use the blast that it should prioritize your field over the rest.
For example, If I’m an Ele and I use Lava Font and then a Guardian uses his Symbol and what I want is to support my team with Might, I should be able to do so, instead of giving Area Retal which is already applied with the Symbol so basically I wasted my Blast on a boon that’s not needed for my team. And since Symbols help Guardians do damage I can’t say stop using your symbols.
That’s why I think this should be implemented… It would actually add more teamplay.Properly layering and timing combos is meant to be part of tactical team play. Being patient with skill use and co-coordinating with teammates to maximize which finishers are going off which fields matters.
What you’re suggesting is freedom for everyone to solo next to each other, not more team play.
the problem with your theory here is essentially guardian, whose AA puts down a field. Point is, its all good to say coordinate, but asking your guardian not to use AA for 10 seconds is a bad idea, likewise some reactive or protective skills are fields.
should a mesmer let people get hit for 10 seconds before using feedback?
other classes that are designed to use their own fields selfishly, thief shouldnt use his smoke field for backstab?
the biggest problem with this solution is, it only solve self set field issues, some classes have great finishers but few fields, they will still be hitting retal instead of might, like warrior.
Legendaries show you touched almost every aspect of the game. It makes sense that if you want to craft one, you must WvW and SPvP. Or, you have to have enough money to buy one off the TP.
Bottom line, Anet should seriously up the requirements for the Gift of Battle to include both higher than rank 30 WvW and some SPvP ranks. If players don’t like WvW and/or SPvP, then they can save up Gold to buy a Legendary from us on the TP.
It makes no sense currently to put legendary progression in spvp, its has a totally different cosmetic progression mechanic that completely works against the other one, too the point you cant even use your real bank in the mists. SPVP is the sectioned off game, it has different rules, different stat combos, different gearing system, different items. In fact if you even want to use a skin in SPVP it becomes a different item type.
it makes zero sense as it is. Perhaps when/if they make some changes, then it will be about whether its a good idea for other reasons, but as is the very systems in place clash with each others existence.
It sounds like you don’t actually want GW2 at all, but rather some other game to be honest.
You are missing the point, he offered a suggestion, but his main point is that they need to add big new exciting content if they want to keep people engaged/returning.
I fully agree, if GW2 wants to continue, they need to offer things like new dungeons, new classes, new abilities, new story lines, new zones etc. They need to evolve their content, and build on it.
In GW1 for example, you get new skills, a new main plotline, a plethora of zones. What he is saying isnt that he wants a different game altogether, hes saying they need to do big things, and they shouldnt be afraid to. Its a proven formula for success, and they themselves have done it many times.
Now, i dont think dual proffessions is the answer here, but i think he also enjoy expanded traits, new weapon types, etc. Which are things anet has said they want to do, however they have not fully commited to it yet.
And yes new proffesions would be great.
to give the player hope, recently in some interview they said they want to give people the type of content they are used to in expansions, and mentioned proffesions, zones, and races, However my guess is most of that would take them many many many years. I mean precursor quest was first mentioned in like november last year, and it still isnt out. And from descriptions, it would not be surprising if it was just getting a whole lot of crafting materials (which probably shouldnt take 1.5 years to implement but what do i know)
I’d pay 800 gems per trait slot. Take my money already just give me GEAR and SPEC templates so I can change everything with a single button push.
This is already horribly likely so please don’t suggest it to further encourage them…
Yeah, take it easy with the money there! ;D
I know we would all be very much interested in such a feature, but let’s not encourage them to milk us even further!
just to offer some perspective here, but if you think about them milking us, the other side of that coin is you milking them. After all everything they develop requires work and money, you got to remember to pay them sometime for some things. So the question is what is an acceptable monetization strategy from your prespective. Where is it ok for them to get their money, and what should be included for free
I’ve spent more than my fair share in the gem shop – I’m not one of those people who expects something for nothing, but there must be a balance. Take the upgrade extractor tool for example – horribly overpriced.
just to be clear im not sure weather it should or shouldnt be cash shop item, however somethings have to be, the key is figuring out what should be.