Guild Wars 2

Qaelyn.7612:

The problem isn’t any particular activity or means of making gold. The problem is rewarding rote repetition.

Each champion should only give a bag the first time it is killed per day. That’s how a lot of other things work, and it makes a lot of sense.

which makes it unlikely you will get people to help you kill champs other than once a day. also means people will only do the tower once a day.

the real problem is
game is too focused on gold. It probably makes for a strong economy, but it makes whatever is best gold per hour, the best thing to do. Usually the desired things in the game are hidden behind content, (story unlocks like gw1) rare drops from hard monsters (monster hunting) or dungeons/raids.

to get people to play the GW2 world, they need to gate highly desired items behind the type of gameplay they want to encourage.

Sligh.2789:

Lord Kuru.3685:

coglin.1867:

The problem I have with zerker gear, is that everyone keeps preaching it, Yet I do not wear it, and notice the amount of damage the group loses from “me do um big leet damage” being downed. Then we lose more damage as I have to stop and get them up.

Have you considered that they get downed because you’re causing the fights to drag out longer than they should due to your sacrificing damage for defense?

Have you considered that they getdowned because you’re causing the fights to fail due to your sacrificing defense for damage?
If you want to pigeonhole non zerkers, you must realize that you are pigeonholing yourself.
I think that Zerkers have succumbed to the all or nothing approach because they cant be bothered to play the game, they are in it for the Gold to get the most valuable stuff NOW. It is not skill to pile up damage so fast that an enemy has no chance. That is not what the game is about.

thing is the game has long term goals, after doing it a few times, people will try to make it faster as they get better. Zerker is currently the main means of increasing speed.

the enemy not having a chance is probably an encounter/ai design problem, but not sure if people really want it solved (people dont really like losing)

the other part is to make more stats effect skill effectiveness/potency. very few skills are effected by anything but dmg, hence a zerker with the same utilities and traits is probably almost as survivable as other gear sets, but it does a lot more dmg.

Derek.9021:

Manuhell.2759:

Well, the problem with the tower is that, achievements aside, there isn’t much to do.
Sure, you may try farming for keys, but the drop rate doesn’t seem that good. And the rare drops, as always, are tied to rng.
As there are better alternatives for farming, people will just do those, and eventually buy the rare drops via gold.

yeah, one of the points I was trying to make was that Living Story needs to give better rewards than anything else currently in the game each time, so people keep the incentive to keep going to that area.

do you really want to over incentize living story though? a lot of people think its to incentivized right now

Phy.2913:

Removing champs rewards will just force people to find the next most efficient way to farm. If it’s not champ trains it’s DE trains somewhere else, or dungeon speed runs, or farming trash.

kitten its a name doppelganger. But yea hes right.

There are some ideas i have on how to spread people all over more, but efficiency in farming will always be sought.

the solution to the problem is probably coming, some combination of better gold and karma rewards for DE, and an increase in demand for karma.

Precursors probably will require a lot of obsidian shards, ascended armor will probably also use something like 30 obsidian shards each. × 6 pieces thats
180 shards or, 378k karma
now, precursors, they said awhile ago will use a lot of the materials for vision crystals, now anet is nototiously bad with numbers, so i hope they dont do a 250 each thing… but who knows.
lets say its 50 bricks ingots and stars and electrums
each brick uses 2 obsidian shards
200×2=400 obsidian shards = 840k karma

sooo where can you get karma, champions, and money at the same time.

you guessed it, events/event chains.

the key will be balancing event rewards throughout the world so that all events are worthwhile, and not just running 5 events over and over in 1 map. But that will be pretty hard.

regardless, the highly likely upcoming obsidian shard crunch will probably have the farming populace farming events again, and making you annoyed thats all they do soon enough.

Julie Yann.5379:

phys.7689:

morrolan.9608:

Squid.6903:

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

And the ability to sell a drop which has stats you don’t use. Its utterly absurd.

One of the key facets of ascended is they have an earned component. If you could sell them directly. That would no longer be the case

They would probably sell for 150-200 gold each. To me, paying that price for a weapon means I have to earn it. I can make gold pretty easy while playing (and the TP) but farming mats is the most boring and annoying gameplay to exist. I’m not talking just the ascended mats, those are pretty easy to get except for dragonite. I’m talking about all the wood and metals and the cost of leveling a craft. I dread the thought of leveling my remaining Artificer and Armor crafts when the time comes. It is the biggest gold sink ever and the whole process is very tedious. I would prefer to play the game, forget about crafting and just buy the end product. It would still be time gated cause the guy making them can only craft 1 piece a day, the item would still retain it’s value on the market and I would have the convenience of just be able to purchase it and Anet can still have their gold sink. It’s a win for everyone.

you can buy the inscription and the ingots, the only part you have to earn is the vision crystal. The main problem is requiring crafting 500. It shouldnt be required to get crafting 500. It makes an optional part of the game kind of mandatory.

like i said
should be a mystic forge recipe that takes
inscription
vision crystal
badge+blade item
badge+hilt item

this way WvW people can craft themselves, or pay gold+ badges and a vision crystal to get their ascended.

Protoavis.9107:

phys.7689:

morrolan.9608:

Squid.6903:

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

And the ability to sell a drop which has stats you don’t use. Its utterly absurd.

One of the key facets of ascended is they have an earned component. If you could sell them directly. That would no longer be the case

You mean like legendaries which have multiple earned components?

yes ascended is actually more personal charachter progression oriented than legendaries.

you can only get them by actually doing the activities your self. in some ways its more prestigious than legendaries (which you can buy for your level 1 chr)

they are made this way partially so they dont become slave to the TPs value system. since every precursor is account bound, they can only be earned through play. they also have no price.

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

in armor
920 ele versus 1211 guardian/warrior

= about 20% difference in damage mitigation .

Actually, you should be comparing the Armor attribute (Defense plus Toughness) not base armor. With no additional toughness, at L80, that would be:

Ele: 920 + 916 = 1836.
Warr/Guard: 1211 + 916 = 2127.

The actual difference in mitigation is more like 14%.

Raine.1394:

Yes, a thief will bleed out near instantaneously, while a warrior will take a few seconds depending on the mobs focusing him. It’s surprising how fast a warrior goes down under the right (well, wrong, actually) circumstances in full berserker.

What I find more surprising is how quickly a full toughness/vitality spec goes down under those wrong circumstances.

ah you re right. 14% is more accurate.

Arthos Ravron.3796:

phys.7689:

The poster specifically asked about a certain armor set, when you evaluate the effectiveness of that set, he didnt ask if 1 specific build is as strong as another specific build.
He also is talking about PVE/Fractals, which means if you have been doing it awhile you switch your utilities and weapons based on what you need to do at the time.

Answering the OPs question, yes, warrior/guardian are considerably more survivable than thieves/ele when wearing berserker armor.

As to why that is the case, its because they have more effective health, more blocks, more mitigation IN ADDITION to their dodges, and dodge abilities.

Point is, classes are actually different and excel at different things, even with the same armor. I dont think you are really trying to say that a thief is as survivable in PVE as a warrior or guardian, so i dont even know why you re mad.

in HP alone, level 80 with base vit
10k thief versus 18warrior

in armor
920 ele versus 1211 guardian/warrior

= about 20% difference in damage mitigation .

these two alone = a lot less squishy.

guardian has a class mechanic which provides heal over time, and heal IN ADDITION to their heal skill,
they have 5 weaponskills which heal, 3 utilities, and 6 traits.

yes they are more survivable even while wearing berserker gear.

Base stats say little actually. It’s why Guardian HP is far from it’s EHP. If we strip the utilities and traits a Guard has and leaving his base stats unchanged, do you think he’ll still be as survivable?

I’m arguing the fact that you’ve used bad evidence to prove the survivabiltiy of the professions. It’s maddening because this is the reason why classes get unecessary nerfs and bad rep. Provide skills that the class may often use in those situations and you’ll have a better argument. Simply stating that they have these skills is not enough. Show the situations where they are used, and how often they are used. If by following the same way you presented evidence, I could say eles (squish squish) are survivable because they have a shield that blocks attacks and a 3 second mobile invun. It’s just not… Enough to prove much.

I could argue that, with enough skill, every class becomes near-equal in survivability (yes, even thieves.) but, yeah. Too hard for the average player to reach the point where they have internal clocks for every cooldown on every ele skill. So for all intents and purposes, Warriors and Guards survive better.

I do suggest OP to force himself to continue playing (or start playing) the squishy professions. It helps situational awareness and all that jazz.

you are paranoid of nerfs, i wasnt saying guardian or warrior is OP. im stating the fact that they are more survivable, and yes they were designed that way. They fully expect guardians and warriors to be able to survive a lot easier with more builds.

Lorelei.3918:

Another thing about the tiny minority who are trying to compare this to sports.

This is not a ******* sport. It’s a game people play to have fun. To relax and enjoy themselves. Not get their faces stomped in every week by some power house server. Those teams you mention are getting paid to have their faces stomped in (or a scholarship in the case of college teams or a chance at a scholar ship for high school).

Imagine you were having a friendly match of football at the park when the patriots show up and challenge you to a game.

You get destroyed. Its novel at first.
Then the next day there they are again.
And again and again and again.
are you still having fun? no, you probably are sore, angry and finding a new way to have fun.

lol you know….
sports are games people play to have fun..

look im not saying hey its fun to get destroyed, im just saying having a league once in awhile is fine. This is season 1 who knows when season 2 will be. You get to see how your server measures up, what its limitations and strengths are.

after the season is over it will go back to being exhibition matches, and honestly its a lot more boring to me.

As far as the regular match ups are, i find those to be just as bad, random opponent usually = someone getting face stomped, and rating alone = fight the same 2 servers for months, which is boring
Id like a better solution for non season match ups, but i dont really see one.

and yeah id want the chance to keep playing them. In all honesty, a game isnt really about winning. Its about the journey.

Arthos Ravron.3796:

killcannon.2576:

Arthos Ravron.3796:

phys.7689:

MrRuin.9740:

Noctis.4753:

Is the survivability of a warrior/guardian wearing full berserker gear as bad as thief/ele (squishy classes) when doing PVE (dungeon and fractals) ?

Your survivability is more reliant on your ability to press ‘V’ than anything else.
I’ve been on dungeons and fractals where the heavies are constantly down and the squishies stay up, and vice-versa. Thief, Guardian, Ele, whatever…..it doesn’t really matter as dodging is more important than class or gear when it comes to surviving in PvE.

incorrect.
warriors/guardians will take less base dmg just from armor
they have more effective HP due to heals, protection
they have abilities which reduce dmg, like dolyak signet endure pain, aegis. they got strong hot like heal signet guardian has a large number of block skills.

the warrior guardian has to dodge less, and more dmg cancels. inspite of peoples belief to the contrary, there is a fairly large difference in what proffessions can do.

Guardians actually are forced to dodge if they have unscathed contender.

Imagine, not one hit must be taken for them to keep this up.

Oh and Doly Signet is nothing compared to Signet of Judgment and Signet of Stamina.

On a side note, I can barely understand your English, or your supposed “knowledge” on the professions you’re talking about.

I thought this post was amusing.

Curious why you are using an ad hominem attack ? Do you not understand class jargon? The poster pretty much nailed it, if you are unsure of what jargon means GIYF.

Of course I know class jargon. It’s just that his knowledge on Guardians and Warriors is lacking considering he’s stating skills and class mechanics which aren’t even the best or even used by most DPS/Burst builds.

And he should try structuring his sentences better. It’s not exactly readable.

Besides, you could accuse me of ad hominem all you want but it’s a fact that stating simple facts that every skilled player should know shows that his “argument” is already failing. Protection? Not all Guards have good access to it. I do admit the amount of blocks Guards have is fairly high, which is really only noticeable if the timing’s right. Although… eles, thieves, mesmers, warriors, and heck almost every class has a powerful mitigation tool used even in Damage builds. Doly Signet? Why waste a utility slot on toughness in a Damage build? Besides, why use that example when Guardians have a signet with 10% flat damage reduction? (Which is still rarely used in Damage builds) Simple, not enough info. I’m casting doubt on the credibility of his claims, because it’s never a good time to make an argument based on exaggerated and weak info.

The context is in a Zerker-oriented and probably a damage-oriented view. His argument would’ve had some power if he hadn’t forgotten that no build has everything. Especially not Damage specs.

I really dont know why you are arguing against me. I was replying to someone in the context of the OP. Which was asking,
are berserker warriors/guardians more survivable than berserker ele/thfs

the poster i was replying to said that only the amount of dodges matter, which is not true.

The poster specifically asked about a certain armor set, when you evaluate the effectiveness of that set, he didnt ask if 1 specific build is as strong as another specific build.
He also is talking about PVE/Fractals, which means if you have been doing it awhile you switch your utilities and weapons based on what you need to do at the time.

Answering the OPs question, yes, warrior/guardian are considerably more survivable than thieves/ele when wearing berserker armor.

As to why that is the case, its because they have more effective health, more blocks, more mitigation IN ADDITION to their dodges, and dodge abilities.

Point is, classes are actually different and excel at different things, even with the same armor. I dont think you are really trying to say that a thief is as survivable in PVE as a warrior or guardian, so i dont even know why you re mad.

in HP alone, level 80 with base vit
10k thief versus 18warrior

in armor
920 ele versus 1211 guardian/warrior

= about 20% difference in damage mitigation .

these two alone = a lot less squishy.

guardian has a class mechanic which provides heal over time, and heal IN ADDITION to their heal skill,
they have 5 weaponskills which heal, 3 utilities, and 6 traits.

yes they are more survivable even while wearing berserker gear.

EFWinters.5421:

grabemx.9836:

EFWinters.5421:

SIC: Why don’t you 3v3 us instead of /laughing when you (fail to) zerg us down with 3x the numbers? You have the people online, we have the people online. Let’s make it happen.

Ok here is an idea. Since our 7-10 people a night is way too much for CD/EB to handle, how about you go get 2 friends and I will meet you 3 behind the windmill?

Sounds awesome, but unfortunately our 6-man roster is asleep right now.

phys.7689:

I guess because your server primarily is small, its hard for you to concieve of large fight considerations.
look at real life, does it take more coordination to play 1 v 1 basketball or 5 on 5, more coordination to teach 3 kids, or 30? more coordination to manage an army?

yeah it doesnt take more coordination to mow down 3 people, but imagine if you had similar force, and you wanted to effectively use them, there would be a lot more coordination that has to come into play.

You are actively discarding a lot of coordination because of your large group size though. Do you ever react to individual skills being used by the enemy? Do you work hard for all your stomps / revives? Do you ever focus important targets down? No you don’t. You care very little for what the enemy brings to the table, you spam AoE’s to get your stomps mostly, you use noskill warbanner to get your revives, and you just bomb the largest blob of red names to “focus fire”. The coordination of a blob guild like CORE is extremely limited, and mostly revolves around being able to follow your driver so you can abuse the broken AoE system.

im drawing a line here. 1v1 versus 5 on 5, skill wise they may be similar, but coordination, which means working together

“the organization of the different elements of a complex body or activity so as to enable them to work together effectively.
“both countries agreed to intensify efforts at economic policy coordination”

cooperative effort resulting in an effective relationship.
“action groups work in coordination with local groups to end rain forest destruction”

2.
the ability to use different parts of the body together smoothly and efficiently."

the more parts you have, the more coordination is required.

Now this doesnt mean every zerg is well coordinated, but basically means that their coordination cap is higher the more pieces they have.

And yeah talented coordinated teams do target key enemies, make use combo fields, etc. Im not going to say who is coordinated and who isnt. But the type of coordination you are talking about, and some that you are not talking about is what the better teams are bringing to the table.

Point is, there are different considerations, fields are more important, and not clashing with fields, position is very important, not just for aoe damage failure. Splitting the zerg in half, support and defense. you bring different skill sets and look out for different things. Its entirely possible that someone who is used to small teams will suck at high end zerging and vice versa. It is even more probable that you wont be specced properly going from small to larger team fights.

MrRuin.9740:

Noctis.4753:

Is the survivability of a warrior/guardian wearing full berserker gear as bad as thief/ele (squishy classes) when doing PVE (dungeon and fractals) ?

Your survivability is more reliant on your ability to press ‘V’ than anything else.
I’ve been on dungeons and fractals where the heavies are constantly down and the squishies stay up, and vice-versa. Thief, Guardian, Ele, whatever…..it doesn’t really matter as dodging is more important than class or gear when it comes to surviving in PvE.

incorrect.
warriors/guardians will take less base dmg just from armor
they have more effective HP due to heals, protection
they have abilities which reduce dmg, like dolyak signet endure pain, aegis. they got strong hot like heal signet guardian has a large number of block skills.

the warrior guardian has to dodge less, and more dmg cancels. inspite of peoples belief to the contrary, there is a fairly large difference in what proffessions can do.

Korossive.7085:

Lets clear the mist.

1. MF does not affect: chests, quest-loot, map-completion-loot, Mystic Toilet, or boss-loot.

2. Every player has a 1% chance to get rare items. If you have 100% MF increase, it means that you have 2% to get a rare item (1% base + 100% increase = 2%).

A person that has 300% MF increase has an effective 4% chance to get a rare item (instead of 2% for an average person that has only 100% MF).

That’s. It.

If the OP would have flipped the TP, instead of the whole tedious salvage cycle, he could have bought a truck load of ectoplasms by the thousands, which is what this is all for, in a fraction of the time. For reference, I can flip 25g for 20 minutes a day, do the math yourself how much ectoplasms can be straight bought (and I’m not the best at it by far).

Oh and about bragging; I’d like to tell you all that I think I’ll open a ticket that the purple color for legendary-name-tags is not good enough because ……. oh yeah I HAVE SUNRISE!!!!

/endbrag thanks for thread move along

where did you get the 1% number?

EFWinters.5421:

Archilese.3218:

I don’t understand why after all this time people still complain that we zerg.

FA or CORE? I don’t have a problem with CORE since they tend to leave roaming groups alone. I can see people complain about FA zerging though, it’s the same stuff you’ll hear from any server that’s outnumbered, and to some extent it’s justified.

Archilese.3218:

If you’ve ever done a 15v15 or a 20v20 you’d know that its not just spamming 1, it takes a different kind of skill to 1v1’s or even 5v5’s because there’s more to co-ordinate and sure you can argue that each person is less important the bigger the group gets but don’t pretend like playing perfectly and coordinating with another 19 people is easy.

If you really believe that running 20-man zergs require more coordination than running a 3-5 man group you are really bad at coordinating said 3-5 man group.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Are you from that guardian/ele/mesmer group?

Were you the mes or guard?

I was the guardian.

I guess because your server primarily is small, its hard for you to concieve of large fight considerations.
look at real life, does it take more coordination to play 1 v 1 basketball or 5 on 5, more coordination to teach 3 kids, or 30? more coordination to manage an army?

yeah it doesnt take more coordination to mow down 3 people, but imagine if you had similar force, and you wanted to effectively use them, there would be a lot more coordination that has to come into play.

I know you guys are annoyed because you dont want to fight a lot of people. but you do realize WvW was meant to house a large amount of people per map? if you guys got 30 people on a whole map even small servers with 60 people will double you. Truth is, if you want more small fights, you actually need more players, attacking multiple targets, so your enemies have to spread out.

yall just are on the low end of wvw population, theres nothing FA can or should do about that. Get more people to play wvw.

Julie Yann.5379:

Since launch there have been hundred upon hundreds of QQ threads about stealth (invisibility is a better description), have you ever thought that maybe that means that the entire concept of it is flawed and broken and that it shouldn’t even exist within a PvP/WvW setting?

people QQ any time they dnt feel good. hey if anet is willing to totally redesign theif to make them play similarly without stealth, im with it, but gutting a class just because it doesnt make opponents feel good about themselves is a bad idea

Conncept.7638:

phys.7689:

stealth is highly annoying but not very effective. Its best for running away, which has very little value in objective based gaming. Also, canceling stealth is too strong a card to pull. it would mean thief could never use any stealth skills in pvp. And to be honest with the amount of aoe, its pretty hard not to get hit by it in any group fight, (90% of wvw fights) r

A) They already said they are working on death-match PvP.

B) The new bloodlust aura makes it matter. I’m on YB, in one of our WvW matches this season, we got over 70% of our points from the bloodlust buff.

Honestly, with simultaneously the greatest ability to kill and the greatest ability to avoid being killed all in one mechanic, why will anybody ever pick anything else so long as killing and dying in small encounters matters? And the developers have made it very clear that they do wish to see actual combat matter more in every PvP mode, rather than the pure objective control we see far too often now.

That said, I do not agree that damage should break stealth, I want to see it made balanced, not useless.

first of all this illusion that thief has the highest burst dmg isnt really true. 2nd the idea that stealth is a perfect defense is false. in death match, even if the theif survives, he will then die to the better classes.

theif is not the best 1v1 class, its the best at getting out of a bad situation. 1v1 theif ends up running when facing similar skilled opponents many times.

match up thief versus the top of the classes, and you wont see them winning 1v1 much.

warrior vs theif? sorry this is warrior, or theif walks away if the warrior is pvt
guardian theif walks away lets call it a tie since guardian may nt be able to kill him with low mobility
mesmer could go either way, but mesmer IMO has some of the best 1v1 tactics available, interupts, stuns, deceptions etc. On the theifs side, mesmer tends to need a target.
necro versus theif necro all the way, area denial and conditions on a low hp class with few condi removals
engi versus theif, once again area denial with condi, its a bad match up for theif

ranger vs theif, probably one of theif good match ups, though smart use of evasion on the rng and pet may make this a toss up

ele versus theif, prolly theifs best match up, low hp, and a lot of defense from boons, still its def not a guarantee if the ele is aware or tanky.

anyhow in death match team comp is still key, it only becomes one versus one if your team lets it be.

fact is stealth aint all that. I would say they should limit it, except its baked into 75% of theives abilities, they would need a new mechanic, which i find unlikely to occur

JustTrogdor.7892:

Aberrant.6749:

I’ll be making a guide on how to do it for others as well.

It’s very easy to get to 150% MF (11% of the total luck you would need to hit 300% MF). Even very casual players can do this.

Frekkin’ trolls and haters all over the place.

Yes please do share your guide about making 400 gold salvaging items for 300% MF. I’ll eat my words. If it was that easy you would see in order about how to make gold:

Trading post
Salvaging items for gold and MF
Champ trains
Dungeons

I have yet to see anyone talking about the lucrative trade salvaging items for gold and MF.

its just slow money, you place orders for blues/greens and sell the results. You make money, but you also spend time. you probably would make faster luck gains via farming/tp and then just burning through some money.

Its not bad as a supplement, or when prices are good, but doing all the buy orders, waiting salvaging, selling back etc, not that fast or that fun. Also fluctuations in the market have to be watched and calculated

Sreoom.3690:

All I ask for is an effective counter.

I hit a thief with cripple…they stealth and shake it off. I hit a thief with Daze, they stealth and shake it off. I hit a thief with Entangle (my Elite Skill) they stealth and shake it off…then I get hit twice and die.

Where is the balance?

this isnt really accurate. stealth does not cancel anything on its own, if you stealth and your immobilized, you will still be immobilized. You may be confusing shadow steps with invisibility. Also theif doesnt have as many sources of invisibility as you think

the real key here is invisible is not invulnerable, they still take dmg, get conditions, etc. the key is they can run away better, thats about it.

Shonie.5297:

Bucket Lips.5017:

Shonie.5297:

Bucket Lips.5017:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Some of our commanders are actually looking into a slight alliance…at least so FA can lose for one week.

EDIT: Though judging from the score…that’s already happening.

Lol, how is that alliance thing working out for ya, and did you wanna edit your post again about FA losing?

Wow, way to overcome the odds

SBI said the exact same thing in our last match with you guys, “FA is losing” or “gonna lose” and we all know what happened. FA are typically slow starters on reset night but once we get rolling, nothing can stop us.

I suggest you don’t “count your chickens………..” because we all know FA is going to destroy SBI again in week 7. Gratz on 2nd place

If we get second, so be it. It’s not like winning is a grand accomplishment.
It all comes down to playing a fun game-mode with friends and others who you enjoy playing with, playing on a server that fits yours needs in WvW. “Winning” comes down to which server has more people and better coverage, nothing more, nothing less. No need for rubbing it in, or claiming skill priority, because it’s irrelevant.
Any server can proclaim they will destroy another but it doesn’t mean they are any better skill-wise. Across all servers, I’m pretty sure the average mean skill level is pretty equal when you factor in everyone who plays WvW. It would be nearly impossible to prove skill-wise who is better.
For instance, this week with FA facing Ehmry Bay and CD. I can guarantee that FA has a lot more skilled players than Ehmry Bay and CD.
I can also guarantee that FA has a lot more poor players than Ehmry Bay and CD. Where the concentration of these players is at any given time is a toss-up. Sometimes you’ll come across a skilled group, sometimes you’ll come across [Core]. Lol had to throw that in for the ‘drama’. <3 [Core]
As for the FA/SBI matchup in a few weeks. It’ll probably go down the same way.
We’ll be fairly even in NA and Oceanic time. Dragonbrand will hurt our PPT during Sea where I think we have slightly superior coverage, and FA will dominate in EU time because of coverage. At some point, similar to the last matchup, the result will become inevitable due to FA high PPT during euro time, and less SBI will login midweek, and FA will pull ahead to a seemingly rather large victory.
If you want to ‘chest-thump’ over something so easily predictable, then go ahead I suppose. Anybody can join the winning team if they want, it only costs a few gold or gems. This isn’t like real sports or real competitions where there are rules in place to create somewhat even playing fields for the competitors.
It just makes you look silly when you gloat over something so uneven. If for whatever reason SBI manages to beat FA in week 7, it’ll only be because of coverage. If that does happen by whatever miracle, I would hope my server mates don’t proclaim it to be some great accomplishment of skill.
Any boasts of one servers superiority over another is just “we have more people than you”. And that unfortunately, isn’t very boast-worthy.
When/if GVG’s get introduced, that’ll be the time certain guilds can boast, and even then, it’s not relevant to who wins WvW matches.

your people shouldnt be quitting midweek. Thats the largest factor. friday to about tuesday it was back and forth, i think monday overnight yall even pulled ahead by 8k, we got it back down to to 1k by the end of primetime, but that shows it could have been a closer match.

biggest difference in that match was sbi broke when we came back from their 8k lead on monday (might have been tuesday) we didnt break when we went from like 5k ahead to 8k behind overnight.

It really isnt only about coverage, it aint even all about skill. When the populations are close its more about determination/spirit etc. Look at SoR they were a top contender until various issues fractured their server determination. The real match when numbers are close comes down to who wants it more, who doesnt tap out.

Part of the reason you guys lost imo, was you believing that its only coverage that decides a win. Its that belief which told you that once you were behind on tues or weds that you would not be able to come back. Its that belief that allowed us to widen the gap, and make a match that could have been any ones game into our game.

But keep on not believing in yourselves, or your server, or your skills, that way when the going gets tough, your server will weaken and fall again.

Caffynated.5713:

These threads are always fun. Bunkers and bad thieves think stealth and high burst from stealth are fine. Everyone else thinks it’s stupid and broken to have that kind of defense on an otherwise glass cannon build.

What does a burst thief do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Stealth and wait until things are back in his favor.

What does a burst ele do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Die.

see the thing is stealth is deception, not defense. all thief big dmg comes from melee, so the only way they can kill you is to get next to you again. slash the air and dnt present an easy back target, while thief is reseting, so are you. If you are an ele you can just put down aoe burning fields and the thief will die coming for you. It has no hp, few condi cleanses, and little to no access to protection. play a thief, you will find out it is the glassiest char in the game

sinzer.4018:

digiowl.9620:

The problem with the tengu was that the beak made them unworkable with the talking heads cutscenes. having them talk without lips to move apparently was not a good thing.

Just more incentive to never sit through any sort of cutscene :p

I do wonder what the devs will do if they do plan on rolling out the Tengu as a playable race. The way they talk is really unjarring. I think maybe all their dialogue should be changed to “Squaaawk squaaawk” and have us all act like we know what they’re on about. I just don’t think there’ll be a way to make the beak look right.

parrots have beaks and they talk irl.

Sororita.3465:

Stealth is one of the strongest offenses and defenses a character can have. It can allow you to avoid damage, except for lucky AoEs and melee attacks, and it can also allow you to move unseen by the enemy, giving you the chance to make a clean get away or launch your strongest attack, without the enemy having the chance to avoid it.

That being said, i understand that for some classes, thief in particular, that stealth is their main defensive ability, thats all well and good but when the class has unlimited access to it ( black powder + heart seeker comes to mind) it can get pretty ridiculous. Add in heal while stealthed and condition removal on top of being able to move freely, avoid attacks and being able to land their strongest attack, back stabs for 7k on reasonable armor anyone?

Lets put aside my thoughts on how this game was obviously balanced by some kind of house hold furniture, you may have a different opinion, or you may agree with me. I have two suggestions to change stealth mechanics to make it more balanced with other defenses.

1.Damage knocks the player out of stealth, theres a 1 second grace period when entering stealth, any damage received within the one second will not place you out of stealth.
~or~
2.The revealed buff is upped to 4 seconds long and is received every time you exit stealth.

i guess i should state my class: necromancer. Id gladly trade DS for stealth every 10 seconds…You can be over 70% life force and your normal HP will still recieve damage nowadays..“yay”

stealth is highly annoying but not very effective. Its best for running away, which has very little value in objective based gaming. Also, canceling stealth is too strong a card to pull. it would mean thief could never use any stealth skills in pvp. And to be honest with the amount of aoe, its pretty hard not to get hit by it in any group fight, (90% of wvw fights)

there is a reason nobody asks for more thieves in their zergs, there is a reason in spvp, they are relegated to harasser and capping points no one is holding, there is a reason you rarely see lfm thief in group finder. and its because although thief doesnt make you feel good to fight, its pretty low teir as far as its actual ability to do anything.

theif, low teir in power, high teir in hatred since forever

Naztharius.7639:

deviator.1804:

Tyler.2170:

Songbird.7296:

Tyler.2170:

Thanks. I thought I was pretty classy too. You’re my idol. I want to command just like you pls. Are you holding lessons?

Ask FA. Pretty sure you got schooled last time.

Sure we lost, but we definitely didn’t get schooled. We lost by 50k against a previously T1 server. I would say that’s pretty good for us. We learned even more just by facing them. It’ll be interesting to see how we do again when we rematch them.

lost by 50k to an equally populated server is getting schooled, dont try and use what they were at one time. It only matters what the are now and that is equal to your server.

hmmmm they won by 50k because they had more coverage while we slept lol. As far as skill, we wiped FA zergs head to head so there is no such thing as getting schooled.

So if its just due to coverage, why were you ticking less during prime time?

Now I hear y’all got new guilds and what not.

CANT WAIT

morrolan.9608:

Squid.6903:

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

And the ability to sell a drop which has stats you don’t use. Its utterly absurd.

One of the key facets of ascended is they have an earned component. If you could sell them directly. That would no longer be the case

jalmari.3906:

Ascended weapons are not even worst.

Backpieces are absolute horror. You would need to grind way too many fractals to get one, and you can’t even get decent exotic for many sets. Not to mention many missing trinket sets, some you can get only from fractals and they are soulbound. omg.

The problem as I see it is that you get ridiculous stat boost only if you play this game in certain way. If you like wvw, spvp and doing occassionally some non grindy pve you are left with nothing since prices do not scale well with people not grinding fractals or whatsoever. Not to mention if you like playing several characters in game modes not getting you frequent ascended drops or gold.

actually there are mystic forge recipes which need very little fractal playing. of course they need 250 of specific teir 6 mats, which runs around 50-75 gold. which is imo a lot. however i guess its slightly easier than regular ascended which are about 50-75 gold, but also require a vision crystal and level 500 craft

Xcom.1926:

Belenwyn.8674:

As long as the gem sales are steady there is no reason for NCSoft to worry. The decrease of box sales was expected caused by lower prices.

The release in China will be slightly delayed – I would guess Spring. I your estimation is true there will be no expansion this year.

There is no chance we see a GW2 expansion next year, NCSoft has other concerns in the West next year. But less box sales = less gem sales. More players = more gem sales. If less people aren’t buying the box it translates to less players buying gems. There is a relationship there.

My point about NCSoft’s concern is that Aion and B&S are on par with GW2 in terms of revenue and their revenue comes solely from Korea which is a small market. Whereas GW2 is released in two of the biggest markets. Before, someone says China look at the revenue for China/Taiwan in the report, it is non-existent.

uhh look at that chart again korea is apparently where an extremely large amount of their money comes from. looking at that graph, looks like korea brings in about twice as much as they get from NA+EU+JP+taiwan

caiomacos.1694:

phys.7689:

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

phys.7689:

No, sports aren’t supposed to be fair, they are competitive. That is two different things, sports rewards hard work, and natural inclination way more than wvw does.

Sports sets certqin rules, then asks the player if he’s willing to compete. That’s all.

Don’t let the IOC know that. You’ll get sued.

Fairness is one of the paradigms of sports. Just look at the uproar doping caused in the Tour de France. German TV channels stopped live transmissions alltogether. Even technology gets banned for giving unfair advantages.

“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_doping”

nothing fair about being born naturally with what others have to dope to obtain. Also people here are against the idea that people who play longer get better stats, the same is true in sports, those who have time to train increase strength, speed, etc.

I dont agree with doping, but to be honest its just a rule that we agree upon before the game. like i said, rules are set, and then you are allowed to do whatever within that rule set, based on your natural talents and training, but its not like sports makes sure everyone has the same statisitics, team make up, etc.

Seriously, what are you talking about?

are you seriously asking?

well i was on mobile so maybe the ideas got jumbled.

WvW is a progression based mode, its not supposed to be mode where every one is created equal, its supposed to be a mode where you take what you have built, and fight with that. The builds you choose, the experience you have earned, the WvW experience, the gear you have, the food you buy, the seige you buy.

This is analgous to sports, in the part that, you take what you have developed through your own work to the sport. The exercise, the regimen, the things you have eaten, the amount of hours you have practiced, and your own natural talents. The idea that sports dont reward people who spend more time at them with better “stats” is a fallacy. They work hard for their 1% better strength or running speed, WvW is trying to simulate that aspect, but they made exotics fairly easy to obtain, and they became even more easy to obtain over time.

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

phys.7689:

No, sports aren’t supposed to be fair, they are competitive. That is two different things, sports rewards hard work, and natural inclination way more than wvw does.

Sports sets certqin rules, then asks the player if he’s willing to compete. That’s all.

Don’t let the IOC know that. You’ll get sued.

Fairness is one of the paradigms of sports. Just look at the uproar doping caused in the Tour de France. German TV channels stopped live transmissions alltogether. Even technology gets banned for giving unfair advantages.

“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_doping”

[/quote]

nothing fair about being born naturally with what others have to dope to obtain. Also people here are against the idea that people who play longer get better stats, the same is true in sports, those who have time to train increase strength, speed, etc.

I dont agree with doping, but to be honest its just a rule that we agree upon before the game. like i said, rules are set, and then you are allowed to do whatever within that rule set, based on your natural talents and training, but its not like sports makes sure everyone has the same statisitics, team make up, etc.

Deadcell.9052:

All I want to know is when will I be able to earn my Ascended weapons/Armor by playing WvW. PvEr’s do not have to WvW to earn their weapons why should I have to PvE?

this i agree with. however i think crafting should be the most efficient method. (not leveling crafting) vision crystal is a good idea, earned through play, but it shouldnt be a crafting only, and should be better methods for dragonite as i have stated before, in wvw

this is what complaining about clipping brings, the truth is, running with overly large weapons and various other odd shapped items would require you to run in weird ways, so you can choose loook cool running or not clipping, yall complained and got not clipping, now you cant look cool.

also, i wish the devs had spent animation money/time on new skill animations (charachter movements) way too many skills use same movements, like bluured frenzy hundred blades pistol whip etc. Or you could just make totally new animations for new weapons/skill swaps…

Sube Dai.8496:

Jski.6180:

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Your still coming at this point as if WvW was made to be fair its not and never will be some one will always out number you or simply use the environment better then you will. If you cant get over that you need to stop playing wvw or any RvR type of game because your always going to be on the losing end.

As things stand WvW is one if not the best way to get ascended weapons taking keeps tower and camps all give the mats to make ascended weapons and can drop ascended weapons boxes.

WvW is not a true pvp type of game RvR is not a true pvp a true pvp is where you have nothing but players no true environment to effect the way of a fight. You need to stop trying to make WvW another version of Spvp.

Why do people keep making this ridiculous argument that “it is not supposed to be fair”?

The entire basis of any sport or competitive game, is that both sides can win. Why would anyone, anywhere, participate in or watch a sport where you know the winner every week?

WvW is not a FFA deathmatch. It is a competition between 3 teams. Those 3 teams should start on an equal footing.

Why am I bothering…the second a game comes out with balanced WvW and horizontal progression every GW1 player will flock there anyway. Then ANet can raise the level cap to 1 million and you wow kids can be happy.

No, sports aren’t supposed to be fair, they are competitive. That is two different things, sports rewards hard work, and natural inclination way more than wvw does.

Sports sets certqin rules, then asks the player if he’s willing to compete. That’s all.

Ascended weapon costs 60 gold approx

Ascended inscription on TP 36-45 gold
Deldrimor steel and spirit wood planks 20-40 gold depending on weapon.

I guess your counting leveling crafting but that’s a one time cost. I will say they should offer alt recipes in mystic forge for non crafters that require the vision crystal and the crafted components.

….
[Quote]
An Exotic weapon costs 1-5 gold at max.

An Ascended weapon costs 260g at min.

Exotic can be better than rare, because it’s pretty easy to get. Do 1-2 dungeons and you have your exotic. Or if you’re a WvW player like me, 1 day earns me 2-5g depending on what I do.

Ascended are just outrageous.[/quote]

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

phys.7689:

Wvw isn’t even, and conceptually was meant to reward charachter progression. That said charachter progression should be available to and encourage wvw playstyles

Allow me to disagree.

I can’t help but feel that saying WvW was never meant to be and never will be balanced is essentially a non argument. No game designer promotes his game as imbalanced. You don’t design a game to be imbalanced. When you start it out, you want it to be as balanced as it possibly can be.

That WvW favours numbers and that usually a large group defeats a small group doesn’t legitimate even more imbalance. If it did there wouldn’t have been the Confusion or Bloodlust nerfs. And I’m not even arguing the point that larger teams have an advantage.

What I’m saying is that you need an even starting ground. Everyone’s base equipment should be the same. If you can fool the opposition to run into your zerg more power to you. But on the other hand with some attention and map communication you can dodge the zerg alright if you want to. And the introduction of the ruins and the Edge of the mist map clearly shows that small party play is indeed a part of WvW. And in small party play balance is of the essence.

If you want protection stay with the larger group. But don’t introduce gear that throws off balance where it actually is (or should be) and matters: in the small fights (although I want to make clear that in my opinion the power creep is bad even in larger battltes).

You are thinking of spvp, that is supposed to be fair level playing field. Wvw is pvp that is about all the things you have built and developwe versus what your enemies have.

Like in sports some people train harder than others, that is part of what they wanted in wvw. You know one of their early ideas for wvw was no level cap, with diminishing returns on stats?

Point is wvw was always meant to give a limited advantage for time spent. Look at wxp. They do however not want total imbalance, that’s why the effect of time spent is comparatively minimal

Bao Lin Nda.1042:

What I learned since beginning of WvW: it’s all about nightcapping. And up till now ANet is unwilling to fix this by trashing the bad idea of region-based servers, so it doesn’t matter at all what system we have – it is broken a priori.
Internationalized servers would:
- reduce the problem of queues during local prime time, simply because we double the available servers and therefor have way better load-balance. Also reduces lags and such.
- fix nightcapping, because we have a woldwide possible cover up on all servers
We will see..

Not really. Most imbalances not caused by night capping caused by lack of server interest. When high silver destroys low silver they do it at all times of day. In fact some servers gain ground during off hours

Servers shouldn’t be sorted by rank, they should be sorted by “weight class” which should be based on average wvw population. Your class could change based on week to week.

Main problem is everyone needs to fight even if they don’t fit anywhere. Too bad wvw can’t have fatal fourways and one on ones.

Dragonite wvw suggestion

Dragonite hoard build up in captured objectives based on successful dolyak deliveries.
Amount given per time cycle increases longer its held

Towers 1-3
Keeps 1-5
Stonemist 2-7

Incentizes holding objectives and dolyak importance.

Hoard must be physicaly retrieved from objective

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

Yes, yes and yes.

Getting Ascended gear of any sorts simply isn’t fun. I can see why people want it in PvE but WvW is PvP. An even playing ground is key to a successful PvP format. Aside from the obvious artificial barrier Ascended gear introduces it generates even more power creep (like there wasn’t already enough: WvW server buffs, bloodlust, WXP ranks, food, etc.) something that is already harming the game now and will only get worse over time if it doesn’t stop.

Wvw isn’t even, and conceptually was meant to reward charachter progression. That said charachter progression should be available to and encourage wvw playstyles

Stars.2179:

Well it wouldn’t be very fair for the crafting crowd if they make it so that you can exchange a bunch of badges for the ascended piece considering ascended weapon cost over 90g + 30k karma and 20 skill points to make.

I think they should make it so that if you can obtain, all four components (example: deldrimor blade, deldri hilt, ascended inscription and vision crystal) of the weapons/armor/trinket (through the trading post or craft) you could trade them together with 100,000 honor badges to an NPC to get the ascended weapon of choice.

So to get the (later) complete set of 6 armor pieces and 3 weapons, you just need 900,000 badges and whatever the cost for the pieces is from the TP.

For the vision crystal, if one can’t level up crafting, they can exchange 500 of each bloodstone dust, dragonite ores and empyreal fragments and 20 skill points + 50,000 badges of honor for the Vision Crystal. Or 200,000 badges of honor + 20 skill points if they can’t afford the mats.

Dunno if your joking here, those badge numbers make no sense. Regardless I believe in alternate recipes that don’t use crafting.

However since they still have to gather mats and obtain crafted items, I wouldn’t make the costs as gefty.
Let’s say the revised mystic forge vision crystal recipe uses bloody augur stone, which uses 500 badges crystalline dust and an augur stone.

The final alternate recipe would be mystic forge, and replace blades and hilts with bloody versions made from 100 badges and the hilts and blades.

Total cost more than usuall is 700 badges, which essentially alliws you to make it without crafting.

tichai.4351:

phys.7689:

Interesting but consider with the focus soley on captures/ kills, a server can simply not play and have fairly close scores. Also two servers who decide to trade objectives can eclipse a third server in points very quickly. Seems like there are many ways to abuse such a system

It is fair to say any system is open to abuse but one would hope the majority of people would play by the rules. Two servers working together to manipulate the score hasn’t happened so far, even to topple a dominating server, and again, there are more fair minded people around who would be against any form of abuse.

The idea is to limit the effect of large groups taking advantage of other, quieter servers during off peak times and discourage zergs for being an ineffective use of manpower during these times.

In a situation where 2 of the three servers have 24/7 cover the fighting won’t change. Yes the third server will still suffer and may have to rethink their strategy by only recapping things they know they can hold for some time, building slowly and looking for as many kills as possible to redress the balance.

It’s about matches going down to the wire, giving each server a fighting chance depending on their tactics and circumstances.

Anything that stops matches being over after 2 days and leagues being over halfway through has to be better, surely?

I heard in matchup thread two servers were flipping stonemist and not attacking each other this week. Only takes a few people to do this.

I understand you r goal, but let’s be honest people would still get stomped by higher numbers and scores and quit. People do it in spvp and that has no excuse.

Interesting but consider with the focus soley on captures/ kills, a server can simply not play and have fairly close scores. Also two servers who decide to trade objectives can eclipse a third server in points very quickly. Seems like there are many ways to abuse such a system

Narrenbart.5182:

phys.7689:

assuming
1/6 attemps gives you an exotic
1/1000 attempts with rares give you a precursor
31 silver per rare

you go from 930 to 596 gold on average.
but thats the average, a great many will fall outside that, and some precursors arent even worth 596 gold. if its for profit you also have to assume a bltc fee of 10% which means you need to charge 662 just toddddd1w break even.

so yeah overall, still not profitable for the average joe.

This calculation is only correct if you destroy whatever comes out of the MF except precursors

the calculation of 930 is if you dont use the exotics, the calculation of 596 is assuming you get a 2 gold exotic every 6 attempts with rares, so its assuming you sell the two gold item . Its an estimation, rares dont always cost 31 silver, your odds arent always 1 out of 6, sometimes you get exotics cheaper than 2 gold some times more expensive. but it gives you a real picture based on average values.

Ensign.2189:

Pearl exotics are one of the byproducts of throwing rare weapons into the mystic forge in an attempt to generate a precursor. Selling them for 2 gold each is in fact profitable once you take into account the value of the precursor you’re after.

Crafting for levels was only a big driver of the exotic economy immediately after the patch introducing exotic weapons, and the excess exotic weapons were sucked right back out to be fed to the forge; these days the forge/precursor market dwarfs the exotics from people crafting to 500.

its still not profitabe, but it mitigates your losses while attempting precursor. precursor is a 100% gamble.

assuming
1/6 attemps gives you an exotic
1/1000 attempts with rares give you a precursor
31 silver per rare

you go from 930 to 596 gold on average.
but thats the average, a great many will fall outside that, and some precursors arent even worth 596 gold. if its for profit you also have to assume a bltc fee of 10% which means you need to charge 662 just toddddd1w break even.

so yeah overall, still not profitable for the average joe.

John Smith.4610:

Ensign.2189:

Pearl exotics are one of the byproducts of throwing rare weapons into the mystic forge in an attempt to generate a precursor. Selling them for 2 gold each is in fact profitable once you take into account the value of the precursor you’re after.

Crafting for levels was only a big driver of the exotic economy immediately after the patch introducing exotic weapons, and the excess exotic weapons were sucked right back out to be fed to the forge; these days the forge/precursor market dwarfs the exotics from people crafting to 500.

Beat me to it! In the last 36ish hours more than 200 pearl cleaver’s have come from the mystic forge, not an insubstantial amount.

some would say this is a problem as it means that crafting will never be able to compete in providing item creation of exotics. Ascended would probably be a good thing to provide, however since even selling people the parts requires them to level to 500 its problematic.

I believe, for armor, you guys should make a final recipe that can be done in the forge. Requiring slightly more materials, and a vision crystal (the part each player has to earn themselves) This way people are not forced t craft for best in slot, ascended still eats massive items, and people who want to craft can provide a marketable service to those that dont want to level crafting to 500.

That aside, there should probably be some items whose primary creation is mostly intentional. Many items have large sources for their creation which are random. aside from ascended, crafting is often the worst way to get something.

another possibility is having a recipe for precursors with a higher output, but no chance of creating random exotics, or creating account bound exotics

Crawford.4135:

phys.7689:

LoneWolfie.1852:

phys.7689:

so a pistol/dagger thief has more torments, stealth bleeds, imobs cripples
so a dagger dagger thief has more cloak and dagger, bleeds and evasions
so a sword dagger thief is gaining more initiative while dancing around
so a sword pistol theif is gaining more initiative while dancing around/stunning players

so a venom sharing build isnt giving up all the positional shadow steps and only pressing 1 because he got no ini

Yeah i get that it MAY slightly effect people doing a max dps rotation versus a mob that is never a threat to them and so they never do anything but attack, but i dont think that one playstyle should be the one which forces all others to have crappy ini gains. In fact i would hope they improve thier AI to where thats never the right answer for a fight.

how do you realistically propose they give all the builds which actually need more ini regen ini, without increasing the 80 you are used to, to 120 ini?

WOW. That’s very simple… how about giving thieves base regen of 1/second without any strings attached? Doesn’t mean flat out increasing the regen = instant OP thief. If you recall we’re getting FLAT nerfs on our Vigor. If our crit line is indeed generating too much initiative, we can tweak opportunist a little.

You are still failing to realize the key here is balancing the traits among themselves. Regardless of whether thief is op for other classes, the ini traits would still be requirements for the best builds. You wouldn’t be making more builds viable, you’d just be buffing everything.

Yes thief needs various buffs, but there’s a difference between balancing builds and balancing classes against each other

Are you a Thief? No? What’s your point, then?

Had a level 80 thief since like 4 weeks after release. So yeah I am. Point is thief needs more viable builds. By making it so 50% of max ini regen comes from a few traits everyone has to take those traits. Which severely limits builds.

Buffs compared to other classes ia a seperate issue and needs its own solutions

Sage.4170:

phys.7689:

so a pistol/dagger thief has more torments, stealth bleeds, imobs cripples
so a dagger dagger thief has more cloak and dagger, bleeds and evasions
so a sword dagger thief is gaining more initiative while dancing around
so a sword pistol theif is gaining more initiative while dancing around/stunning players

so a venom sharing build isnt giving up all the positional shadow steps and only pressing 1 because he got no ini

Yeah i get that it MAY slightly effect people doing a max dps rotation versus a mob that is never a threat to them and so they never do anything but attack, but i dont think that one playstyle should be the one which forces all others to have crappy ini gains. In fact i would hope they improve thier AI to where thats never the right answer for a fight.

how do you realistically propose they give all the builds which actually need more ini regen ini, without increasing the 80 you are used to, to 120 ini?

Note the weaponset you didn’t mention. The one that’s not the Thief “universal offhand” (Shortbow).

You know, the one that’s only used for one very initiative-heavy attack, that’s outperformed by shortbow and all the melee options?

Yeah, Pistol/Pistol.

Considering how Pistol/Pistol was originally mentioned as “underperforming” by the Devs back in May, and here we are in December with no useful changes to it, I’d rather not nerf the hell out of P/P just to achieve a tangential nerf on the sets you mentioned.

They need to look at the reasons why people take 30 points in Critical Strikes (and end up getting 15 points along the way), and why people were taking the initiative-buffing traits (hint: It’s because most of the others are situational or outright bad).

But instead they’re just changing stuff along one axis of adjustment without really looking at any of the others.

Imo balancing all other builds around pistol pistols current meta is pointless because the current p/p shouldn’t exist. It needs a total rework, and probably unique mechanics.

LoneWolfie.1852:

phys.7689:

so a pistol/dagger thief has more torments, stealth bleeds, imobs cripples
so a dagger dagger thief has more cloak and dagger, bleeds and evasions
so a sword dagger thief is gaining more initiative while dancing around
so a sword pistol theif is gaining more initiative while dancing around/stunning players

so a venom sharing build isnt giving up all the positional shadow steps and only pressing 1 because he got no ini

Yeah i get that it MAY slightly effect people doing a max dps rotation versus a mob that is never a threat to them and so they never do anything but attack, but i dont think that one playstyle should be the one which forces all others to have crappy ini gains. In fact i would hope they improve thier AI to where thats never the right answer for a fight.

how do you realistically propose they give all the builds which actually need more ini regen ini, without increasing the 80 you are used to, to 120 ini?

WOW. That’s very simple… how about giving thieves base regen of 1/second without any strings attached? Doesn’t mean flat out increasing the regen = instant OP thief. If you recall we’re getting FLAT nerfs on our Vigor. If our crit line is indeed generating too much initiative, we can tweak opportunist a little.

You are still failing to realize the key here is balancing the traits among themselves. Regardless of whether thief is op for other classes, the ini traits would still be requirements for the best builds. You wouldn’t be making more builds viable, you’d just be buffing everything.

Yes thief needs various buffs, but there’s a difference between balancing builds and balancing classes against each other

ring can be obtained with laurels or from fractals or from laurels and wvw honor badges

sword is crafted or found, crafting, just craft higher level things again and again to level it

tolunart.2095:

Zanshin.5379:

The precursor hunt doesn’t exist anymore. Now they want you to craft them.
It’s probably gonna be time gated, like ascended weapons. It’s probably gonna take so long that it will be faster to farm gold and buy the precursor.

The main idea is to have a non-randomized means to obtaining a precursor, but don’t expect it to be dramatically easier or faster than existing options. If that were the case, the current market for precurors/Legendaries would crash, rendering the time and effort of many players obsolete, as well as costing a lot of players an awful lot of money.

That’s the most difficult part of what they are doing, balancing the new method with existing methods so that one is not clearly better than the rest.

ehhh to be honest, even if they gave away precursors, legendaries would still be super expensive, most likely all of the mats would go up. It wuld just be a finite thing

evilapprentice.6379:

phys.7689:

I can tell your very invested here, and i understand that, but lets try to be objective. Other stomp ensuring skills require the use of a 60 second cool down (base) utility that has a very high value in use, (usually invulnerability of some sort) The IR technique can be done every 22 seconds with steal, which is short cooldown, you can do it 3 times even without points in steal reduction by using a different utilities in addition to steal.

Every 22 seconds with steal and a grand master trait, otherwise its 22-35 seconds. And 5 initiative, lets not forget that. 60 seconds is a blanket number that doesn’t cover all cases – a guardian for example can generate stability for stomping every 30 seconds, faster than an untraited steal, and it doesn’t cost any weapon skills. An engineer can do it every 20 seconds. It’s not much more effective than just using Black powder, which doesn’t cost steal or any utilities, and only 1 more initiative – it’s also easier to set up, and useful for more than just yourself.
Bringing up “different utilities” doesn’t help your point, because other classes could bring 2 utilities that grant a combination of stability/immunity in the same manner.
Thieves have no access to stability, their defenses are all active, and generally built like glass by necessity to be effective. They can’t start a stomp with a huge health pool, protection, regen, aegis, and/or decently high armor like many other classes have the option to. A thief standing still for 4 seconds in any other situation is a death sentence, should thieves just not stomp?

hmm, ehh maybe