I think the only build I differ from metabattle on is the 100% boon duration chronomancer where you have exotic commanders trinkets so that you can add platinum dubloons to them.
They are both bugs, you can avoid the first bug by breaking the breakbar before that one at a different time, if you break it at certain times, the next cc phase will be broken.
For the aggro bug, it’s easily fixed by having every player move outside of his hitbox.
Hardest dungeon boss?
whatever is at the end of SE 2?
Hardest fractal boss?
Ooze in thaumanova with boons on crit.
Hardest raid boss?
Definitely sabetha.
Hardest PvE content overall?
That kittening frog in VB in the SW corner, dang
PvE =/= hard
15 char
They never promised three bosses per wing. They only promised three wings and three bosses in the first wing. Anyway, I’m pretty sure they do internally consider the prison event to be a boss-like encounter. They likely even intentionally made Slothasor and Matthias harder than any Spirit Vale boss to compensate for this fact.
They also said that if your group can beat VG, it can beat sloth. My guild group can beat VG and Gorse and isn’t even close on sloth. Despite a lot of work. I have come to within 1% in pugs. But my guild group cannot make it past 50% on sloth.
The reason being, in VG you can screw up and it wont nearly wipe the whole raid. You need a good tank, and a good healer. The rest is pretty up in the air. Put 5 on Greens so you have some cushion and the teleport really only hurts the player that it happened to.
The reason being the random aggro and volatile poison. Despite hours on that boss I still have the same 3 or 4 people in my group that when they get volatile poison the freak out, or don’t realize. Despite us calling their name on TS, they still drop it in the group or in front of it. We also have people who get aggro, and when the boss turns around to face them they back up. Then keep backing up to try and get away.
I know there will be no possible way we will beat Mathias with our guild group. People just cannot get the mechanics down for sloth. Most of these guys have never even killed Sab.
What I am getting at is that I would put Sloth at a much higher level than both VG and Gorse when you consider an individuals need to follow the mechanic. So the statement that was made about guilds being able to beat Sloth if they can down VG is bs.
Back to OP, no they never said 3 bosses per wing. I have heard from some guildies that have done it that it is not difficult. But the achieve would be.
You’re just wrong here, sloth is considerably easier than VG after lots of practice, and I think most pugs I’ve run with are agreeing, I think you’re one of the few I’ve heard say sloth is the harder one.
Please show me where anet said each wing would have 3 bosses, because I’m 99% sure they’ve never said this.
Well we just killed gorseval so, I’d say it’s going pretty well.
And yes we have voice coms.
I can’t log in right now, but if you’re around 11pm est I’ll give it a shot.
I will assume you mean 11pm EDT given we just had a time change, I’ll make that the time for the first run.
I can’t log in right now, but if you’re around 11pm est I’ll give it a shot.
That would be a perfect time for me.
Yes, there is another reason I am making this post, if nobody replies, it proves that either 1. There are very very few people who actually even want an easy mode raid. Or 2. The people who want the easy mode raid only want it because they are too lazy to even give actual raids a try even when someone is trying to give them help.
Please, if you really are a person who thinks that raids are too difficult for them, join me, let me help you beat this raid to prove that they really are easy and accessible to all.
“But why would anyone want to do that more than once”
Then WHY DO YOU WANT THE EASY MODE if it isn’t for rewards. IF you want easy mode just for rewards, then you DON’T WANT EASY MODE. YOU are the selfish entitled person I am talking about when I mention them. I hate being called the toxic person when it is clearly YOU who is making this community toxic. Please, the purpose of an easy mode raid should be to help people have FUN, not GIVE THEM REWARDS. /rant
disclaimer: I’ve tried to discuss these things politely but I really can’t take the entitlement from some people anymore, sorry.
Raids are perfectly accessible to everyone right now.
Except for the people that can’t access it because no good groups would add them.
I’ll add you.
I’ve said this before, I’ve tried to create teaching groups in lfg and mostly get people who are just bored and are experienced with raids, It seems to me the number of people trying to find a group in your situation, is actually rather small I think.
All I ask is you have appropriate gear and a willingness to learn. If you want to join some raid teaching runs, post down below or message/mail me in game: randomguy.1283
I also made a no rep guild to help me organize people, I will not require people to join it to run with us (I know some people have 5 guilds already), but it really helps me out.
Appropriate gear generally will mean at least exotics with ascended trinkets (ascended weapons are nice but I won’t force them), and meta builds. (Btw both druid and chrono builds are outdated on metabattle)
This will be on NA servers.
Will do runs mostly on weekends, sometimes on weekdays, send me a whisper or a mail in game.
(edited by randomguy.1283)
Raids are perfectly accessible to everyone right now.
The problem with the people who claim this is unneeded, a stupid idea, or simply say learn to play, is that such a mode would not affect you in the least. You would still have your precious hard mode. Remember, you don’t have to play the easy mode – just like you tell everyone who doesn’t like the current raid that they have other modes of play. So get off your elitist high tower. Players who go through the easier mode will learn to do the raid and may actually come out of it ready to do the harder mode.
I, for one, still haven’t been in a successful group. But I’ll probably keep trying.
Wrong, it would waste dev time and I would feal cheated if this “easy” mode gave any unique rewards.
I rather that you feel cheated, so that I can play raids. I paid for the game, I deserve the experience.
As I mentioned earlier, I an FINE with easy mode IF they just don’t get the rewards, you can still play your easy mode raids that way.
Either Raids gets a difficulty setting or Raids doesn’t get lore anymore.
I do not want to risk being spoiled because I can’t find a group. I want to experience the lore for myself, not have reddit tell me what happened.
Then do raids the way they are now.
Okay, find me a raid group. I am sick and tired of looking for them.
No, don’t tell me how to find them. You find them for me and I’ll change my mind. I already tried every single possible suggestion to find them. You cannot think up a way for me to have myself find a raid group that I already tried. I did find some, but the group falls apart really quickly just at VG, I don’t consider them a group. Find me a group that can finish Spirit Vale and I’ll change my mind.
Fine, I’m forming one now get online, I will carry you through this raid if I have to.
The problem with the people who claim this is unneeded, a stupid idea, or simply say learn to play, is that such a mode would not affect you in the least. You would still have your precious hard mode. Remember, you don’t have to play the easy mode – just like you tell everyone who doesn’t like the current raid that they have other modes of play. So get off your elitist high tower. Players who go through the easier mode will learn to do the raid and may actually come out of it ready to do the harder mode.
I, for one, still haven’t been in a successful group. But I’ll probably keep trying.
Wrong, it would waste dev time and I would feal cheated if this “easy” mode gave any unique rewards.
Either Raids gets a difficulty setting or Raids doesn’t get lore anymore.
I do not want to risk being spoiled because I can’t find a group. I want to experience the lore for myself, not have reddit tell me what happened.
Then do raids the way they are now.
@texzero
The answer is that raid leaders can choose to have different difficulty settings for their team…. Easier mode, normal mode and extreme mode… All with matching rewards… So a guild leader could run raid introductions for inexperience members to “wean” them into raiding. Once comfortable, and enjoying the content, they could run the “normal” modes with them, and eventually get to the point where guilds are running extreme mode for the ultimate challenge.
This is all very similar to how spvp is setup… Hot-join is a perfect place for inexperienced players to start. Then players can go to unranked… Then ranked… Then do leagues… Then try to make it on tournament teams…
The different arena modes were designed to cater to all different competitive players and interest levels… The devs didn’t just make 1 arena mode did they? No, and that was intentionally designed with the varying skill levels and interest levels in mind.
This is a video game for enjoyment, and what I speak of are options for all players who paid their $50-$100 for the exact same product… Being accommodating is just smart business, and anet will get to that point with raids just like they are reevaluating the grind and time commitments required in parts of the game.
The biggest problem I have with easy mode raids is that the rewards would NEED to be 0 magnetite shards and 0 unique items/skins for me to not feel completely cheated, if that is really the case, I still feel as if developer time would be completely wasted. Maybe if neither of those things were a factor I could get behind this just so you guys would be possibly satisfied.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
Except he’s not assuming anything, your own statements make it clear that the only reason you are complaining about raids is because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible PvE content even at the expense of other players.
Tex makes all sorts of assumptions and adds random things into the counter argument.
I merely provided a suggestion for difficulty scaling options and wrote a final comment in general community terms, reread the op.
Interesting, where do you come up with the “because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible pve content even at the expense of other players” part? Seriously, what “expense of other players” are you talking about with regard to difficulty scaling?
Maybe not you in particular, but there are definitely people who think that because they do not like raids, they NEED to change. If you are merely suggesting a change and not demanding it, fine.
As should be obvious, adding a difficulty scaling to raids takes time from the devs that could be used to continue making the amazing content they are right now.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
Except he’s not assuming anything, your own statements make it clear that the only reason you are complaining about raids is because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible PvE content even at the expense of other players.
So many raiders seem to get a kind of satisfaction out of the ability to beat content that others cannot. Such a horribly selfish view.
’ I’m comfortable with this so it’s fine for everyone.’
It really isn’t. Lower level fractals never took anything away from 50s under the old system, they just let people have a go without as much hassle. Same principle here. You will still have your prestige rewards, and be able to enjoy beating raids the proper way.
Oh and demanding that content be brought down to your difficulty level isn’t the selfish thing? Please continue to tell me how I am selfish. I’m starting to think YOU guys are the toxic people.
You are not getting off that easy…
It was very much in context to the spirit of this thread.
You want X part of the game to be more inclusive and casual friendly, and some players want X part of the game to be more inclusive and casual friendly.
Making raids casual friendly would ruin raids for non-casual players, please don’t do this.
I think making an easy form of raids is a complete waste of time to the raid devs (the argument that this would only take half a day is absurdly false, how would they handle achievements? rewards?) It’s also an insult to people who actually have and take the time to learn the raids (which aren’t that difficult) to suggest that others should be able to breeze through them and get even a fraction of the rewards for them.
I’ve gotten about 4 in a month actually.
I just think it’s funny that someone actually thought there was enough of a chance that timers didn’t exist in wing 2 to ask it. Yes, there’s still timers.
You will be hard pressed to show me personally complaining about the availability of SaB for example. There is nothing of interest for me in SaB and it was temporary, so I don´t care for it. I have also long ago resigned to the need of people to only accept the best instead of a simple viable solution, aka a meta. If raids had tons of gold, exclusive titles or another non game altering stuff for the aliens as you call it, we would not even have this conversation.
My personal line in the sand was gated legendary armor, that is the only thing I am seriously lobbying against, with adventures also taking some flag because I find them unfitting for GW2. Just because you and most other people assume that legendary vs ascended will make no difference in GW2 until it closes does not make it so. I am pretty sure that you also have such a line in the sand.
And of course I am arguing from my personal opinion with adventures. And yes, I could have just quit the game, but I do not want to quit it. I find adventures boring and nearly repulsive. But Anet offered this forum to write them how you feel about their stuff. Why should I not use this chance because some people find it tiresome to argue and prefer to just bend over and take whatever Anet offers, regardless if it suits their preferences or not?
I find it to be a ridiculous statement that legendary gear is somehow better than ascended gear, this is just clearly untrue, they have exactly the same stats.
It’s because people are panicking, tell them to stop, and continue the fight as they otherwise would.
Not everyone who complains about raids are unwilling to adapt. Majority that are cant even get in a raid without being spammed INSIGHTS INSIGHTS INSIGHTS. Which is where I fall. I have only attempted the last two bosses and can never get into a group willing to help. Its become tedious for people interested, and its become a farm/sell for elites who will scream for nothing to change. More likely for them to keep an income. They would rather take advantage of people than help them
Yet farming sw or fractal 40s give even more gold than selling raids probably, and you won’t be able to do that for much longer now that some guilds are giving away raids for free. As you implied, the hardest part about raids isn’t the encounters, its finding a group. For obvious reasons, people want quick runs, which means finding people experienced. If new, I suggest forming your own group. We are screaming for nothing to change because the encounters ARE fun. Please don’t accuse us of “taking advantage” of people or wanting raids as they are “for profit” The people who buy raids are doing it of their own will. I’m honestly sick of being called a bad person just because I enjoy difficult content in this game. People say elitists are what’s hurting the community in this game, but is it? Or is it the people trying to divide us and call others names?
As some one who is not willing to schedule my life around a guild’s raiding schedule, how do I go about raiding?
Join a guild that doesn’t have a strict raiding schedule.
If you Selfish elitists instead of logging every Monday and do the Raid three times in the row, and don’t log any more and go complain the rest of the week “THA game is dead” -“Im bored” “raids too easy” blabla black desert bla bla I quit on forum and Reddit, YOU could do the full raid at Monday once and get the remaining shards during the week helping new people getting into raids in a chill relaxed way, maybe people wouldn’t need to fake anything (or would be less surprises in your raid).
I personally don’t use chat codes, cause I want to get my own LI with my own effort even if take for ever and i got lucky some people picked me up even knowing I had low exp no eternal bla bla and taught me stuff.But right now the best way to get into raids (if dont have 9 friends that are into it) is to watch a kittening video 50 times, lie and link 5-10 LI (use common sense) and hope you dont mess up too much and reveal your true exp.
I’ve actually posted in lfg before looking for inexperienced players to teach them the raid, all I got was people who did it before but were just bored.
PuGs can require whatever they want. No one has to respect it.
That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be incredibly rude.
Timers are a double edged sword.
We need them to improve, because there’s no proper tools in game to help see where you are failing. We need them to keep the fights from being too drawn out.
However, we also need slightly better mechanics to prevent the facetank it till it dies, and the DPS it till its dead approach. Additionally having a more natural enrage, platform dying etc is always cool.
Basically unless we have the right tools in place, raids will always be primitive in design.
i dont get it. lets assume gors + sab dont have a timer:
1. if u need to use 2 updrafts on the first phase of gorseval, there is no tool/timer needed to tell u, ur going to fail. even my 4 years old sister knows: 4/3 < 2
2. sabethas plattform got a healthbar on the event window. if u see sabetha is on 70% and the plattform is on 60%, there is again no need for any kind of timer/tool.
i agree 100% with the OP, timers are a lazy way, BUT i would never want to lose the vg timer. vg is a well designd boss (my opinion), without any kind of skill, that could create an own timer.
As many pointed out correctly, gorseval and sabetha ALREADY GOT non visual enrage timers. even with out the given 7 and 9 minutes u couldnt cheese them. sure there need to be some aprovements:
GORSEVAL:
- spirts (between the phases) sould be immun to imobilize, so u cant stall them forever
SABETHA:
- Plattform “lifebar” need to be rescaled and be designd on: minimum canon shots + 0 heavy bombs = ~10 min
sidefact: u cant place people forever on the canon plattforms, cause they get a sniper debuff. even nomad guards will get killed with a high debuff. + the canons always shots, cause they are invul for the first shots.In my opinion Gorseval and sabetha are the best examples for a lazy way to implement enragetimers. And be honest people, u all hate the fact, bosses kill u without a reason only cause the time runs out. enrage reminds me on a dev statement pre gw2 release: “u encounter a boss and he will always do his best to kill u”. isnt that against “X mins are over guys, played enough, i got something on stove.”
They’re SOFT enrage timers, they dont just kill you without a reason…
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/468r7g/no_greens_no_distortion_all_facetank_vale/
To those who want to facetank raid and won’t stop cring; Here’s the outcome of how horrible raid would be if devs listened to you. Have fun ignoring every single damage mechanic to beat the raid. Healing and tanking are the main foci here and guess how entertaining this is.
They killed the Boss about 50s before the enrage times even started. Seven of ten players used DPS-builds and gear. They were furlongs away from being an ultra tanking/healing group.
If encounters are balanced for variety, they are balanced for easiness. Difficulty and variety are mutually exclusive, get over it.
A well designed encounter focussing on protection, healing and supporting several targets is as challenging as an kill-the boss-enconters. The only difference lies in the group composition and the rotations players have to perform. Points like positioning, coordination and player interaction are still valid.
Wrong, this is blatantly false because you could have ALL of that AND a dps check AT THE SAME TIME. You’re acting like these things are mutually exclusive when they are not.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/468r7g/no_greens_no_distortion_all_facetank_vale/
To those who want to facetank raid and won’t stop cring; Here’s the outcome of how horrible raid would be if devs listened to you. Have fun ignoring every single damage mechanic to beat the raid. Healing and tanking are the main foci here and guess how entertaining this is.
Well, you have just proved what was being said in this thread – that timers are just a lazy cover for poor mechanics. If the devs concentrated on the mechanics, instead of pushing most of the difficulty on the timer, you wouldn’t have seen anything like that.
This is ridiculous, the timer doesn’t help nor hurt them break the mechanics here, while i agree anet should fix the mechanics so they shouldn’t be able to do this, it has absolutely nothing to do with if there are timers or not.
As before, this AND a timer is better than this without a timer, even if it’s a good idea.
None of these suggestions remove the need for a timer.
On the contrary, there’s no need for a timer at all. The only reason why you think so is because encounter mechanics Anet made are not very good at making boss fights challenging.
If encounters are balanced for variety, they are balanced for easiness. Difficulty and variety are mutually exclusive, get over it.
If you think that the main challenge lies in taking a proper gear setup…
We can all stand around and hate on timers, but I haven’t seen anything that exchanges a timer for something else to prevent cheesing the raids with ultratank/heal raid groups; the whole point of the enrage timers in the first place.
Then i suggest you actually read through the thread.
Timers by definition always make an encounter more difficult because they add a new constraint to the encounter.
If you think that fun lies in taking a certain set of gear, then you don’t understand how fun works. Taking glass cannon gear will always be more difficult than taking tanky gear (unless stats are made irrelevant, which is something that could work) therefore anet SHOULD be designing the encounters around the majority of people in glass cannon gear.
Obtena has read this thread and still not a single person has given one good reason for why timers shouldn’t exist, he’s right.
(edited by randomguy.1283)
The sole problem with timers is that they create a false level of difficulty. The fact that you only have so long to complete something does not actually change the way players play; it would be different if DPS wasn’t the preconditioned base where players really were trying to outlive enemies but that was never a problem.
“Zerker, zerker, zerker!” is what they cried, not “Knights, Knights, Knights!”
In reality a timer only pushes the concept of a Zerker meta rather than undoing it. It’s as if saying “Hey, here’s a great idea, let’s punish you for playing with anything but purely offensive stats.” This inflates artificial difficulty because you have no defense so as far as they are concerned they don’t have to produce terribly challenging content to kill you because the playerbase plays like they have a deathwith to begin with.
Timers = kitten.
I’m sorry, but the STATS you use arent the same as the WAY YOU PLAY. You can tank in zerker, but is it still tanking? Of course, its exactly the style of gameplay you WANT, is it not?
Also saying that timers are “pseudodifficult” is ridiculous, they add a constraint on how to beat an encounter and therefore make it more difficult, to claim otherwise makes no sense.
Dungeons (if dead) are not dead due to anti-glass kvetching. The dungeon liquid gold nerf was to “entice” players to move to raids and fractals, which is the group instanced content ANet wants to support.
The liquid gold that was added to fractals (or so ANet claims)?
For 3 years the forums were full of complaint threads crying about the evil zerker meta and how we need raids so we can finally play healers and whatnots.
I do wonder how those guys like the raids where they will not only be kicked for running some special hybrid support healer necro, but also kicked for good reason (because the raid does not allow such gimmicks).ANet is like a puppy, if you tell them the same thing long enough, they will do that eventually.
If you design encounters in a certain way you create a certain kind of group composition. If you design encounters mainly in one way you create a meta. Monotony creates monotony. It does not matter if you design content for five or ten people.
As long as the developers create only encounters with the title “Kill the Boss!” you get mainly one group composition. The fist raid wing is a great example for it.
As soon as the devs think outside the kill-the-boss-box we will see enconnters with a higher vareity of group compositions. Variety creates variety. With a group of ten players like in raids it is also easier to create multi-dimensional encounters with different simultaneous tasks that favor different approaches via adapted builds.
There is still hope the the second raid wing will introduce a broader spectrum of encounters. More courage for the devs!
If encounters are balanced for variety, they are balanced for easiness. Difficulty and variety are mutually exclusive, get over it.
I’m looking for someone to suggest a way that is NOT a DPS check to ensure players don’t cheese encounters with ultratank/Heal builds.
That’s actually very simple. Every time players fail to perform the boss mechanics correctly, the boss gets a buff. (or in general the encounter gets harder in some way). Eventually, if ultratank/heal is all the players depend on for encounters (as some people suggested will happen) they will get overcome anyway.
So, instead of time-based enrage, use an incremental, failure-based one.DPS specs would get threatened by this faster than bunker specs, but at the same time they’d have to pass less checks, and (if any good) would likely finish well before fatigue could cause them to make mistakes. Bunker builds would have more leeway to make errors, but at the same time they’d have many more chances to make them, and would have to be even more careful to not make some in the early stages
Another possibility is to introduce some obstructions, easy to pass using dps, that do not need to be cleared, but when left alone might make fight more difficult. So, for example, boss spawning adds in reqular intervals. Dps players can kill them fast easily, while full bunkers would get eventually overwhelmed (but might detach one player to be “bait” and keep nuisances occupied somewhere away from the main group).
As before, this AND a timer is better than this without a timer, even if it’s a good idea.
None of these suggestions remove the need for a timer.
I think I wasn’t too clear. I acknowledge there are clever ways to avoid direct enrage timers by the kinds of DPS checking mechanics you describe but make no mistake, whether it’s a number of DPS checks IN the encounter or one big final one on the boss with a timer, it’s still the same thing.
I’m looking for someone to suggest a way that is NOT a DPS check to ensure players don’t cheese encounters with ultratank/Heal builds.
One solution would be a reverse toughness/healing power check. A certain threshold triggers certain events. You are too heavy and break through the floor. Your weight triggers a trap that makes the boss invulnerable. Excessive healing power summons more adds.
Or the encounter scales upon a certain healing power and toughness level.
Now this is just a stupid idea that adds nothing to an encounter…
I would LOVE to see someone else suggest a better way than enrage timers to deal with cheesing hard content with ultratank/healing builds instead of arguing how bad it is. It’s not THAT bad … lots of games have them and they work. It might not be the best but then, does it need to be?
There are other ways. Lets us take the Vale Guardian. We have three pillars there. You can simply implement the pillars into different phases. The Vale Guardian splits into three components during certain phases. Now we can assign one pillar to each “small guardian”.
We have now several options. First one could be an invulnerability of the small guardians provided by the pillars. To break the invulnerability you have to destroy the pillars that harbor a certain HPS value. If you can overcome the HPS the small guardian will become invulnerable and the encounter will progress. This will sieve group compositions with too low DPS.
Second option could be a recharge of the pillars to destroy the small guardians. To recharge them you have to overcome a certain DPS. If the group composition is too low in HPS the encounter will not progress.
In both cases no enrage timer is needed to sieve cheesy build or group compositions. Since GW2 has no holy trinity and the classes are very flexible you can create a large variety of encounters inside a wing where you have to adjust your builds to be successful. You also learn more about your class than a limited aspect with mainly one DPS rotation.
Especially with Dynamic Events you have much more freedom to create that are not DPS-heavy (no cheesy DPS groups) since this kind of encounter works without a boss you have to kill.
This may be a good idea, but it should do this AND have timers. There’s no reason to not have timers even with these ideas implemented.
I would LOVE to see someone else suggest a better way than enrage timers to deal with cheesing hard content with ultratank/healing builds instead of arguing how bad it is. It’s not THAT bad … lots of games have them and they work. It might not be the best but then, does it need to be?
How is using a tank group cheesing? We have groups 5-6 manning, only [insert profession] groups. Why would a slower, damage per second, tank group be cheesing?
I for one dislike the idea of the 1 heal, 1 tank, 8 dd, meta that we have now….hmmm reminds me of the holy-trinity. I would like to see stuff like 3 healers, 5 tanks, 2 dds, new types of group compositions.
The first reason with that is that 95%+ of the players have DD gear already. This would mean all of them would have to change the gear or craft a new one.
The second problem is that right now the “healer” and “tank” roles are not balanced between the professions. Most prefossions can’t even take that role and anet would have to change most of the professions to be similiar strong. Heck they aren’t even able to balance the DD role for each profession perfectly which normally shouldn’t be that hard.
Actually at the moment all the classes are useful to bring for damage, except maybe guardian on VG. Any class can tank too, the only thing that is limited to certain classes would be a healer.
Enrage timers are a lazy way to sieve certain builds. There are more ambitious clever and elegant way to accomplish.
But enrage timers are not equal to DPS races per se. The mechanics of the encounters determine the kind of race. 25 million damage required within eight minutes create a DPS race. 20 million healing required within eight minutes create an HPS race. Encouters with other combinations of HPS, DPS and length of boons conditions or CC create other types of races.
If you want to go the lazy with enrage timers then at least create more variety than simply checking DPS in each encounter.
The only encounter that checks DPS is Gorseval.
What are the other encounters are checking? HPS? Boon duration? CC?
All of the encounters check all of these things.
Since we always see 8-10 DPS-focussed builds it seems the same DPS-focussed weighting is used in all encounters. Otherwise we would see more tanks or healing-focussed builds in certain encounters. And the enrage timer would sieve raid compositions with 8-9 berserker/viper-based builds more often.
And what is wrong with 8-9 dps people out of 10 in one raid? 80%-90% of people probably want to play dps classes.
Enrage timers are a lazy way to sieve certain builds. There are more ambitious clever and elegant way to accomplish.
But enrage timers are not equal to DPS races per se. The mechanics of the encounters determine the kind of race. 25 million damage required within eight minutes create a DPS race. 20 million healing required within eight minutes create an HPS race. Encouters with other combinations of HPS, DPS and length of boons conditions or CC create other types of races.
If you want to go the lazy with enrage timers then at least create more variety than simply checking DPS in each encounter.
The only encounter that checks DPS is Gorseval.
What are the other encounters are checking? HPS? Boon duration? CC?
All of the encounters check all of these things.
Thank you almighty Coulter!!! Now I get it and love the timers and zerker/viper meta! Thank you
XOXOXO
Look if you don’t like how raids work, don’t play raids.
As long as there are checks that must be passed to continue (which do not have to be dps-based. Gorse World Eater is a good example)
Are you under the assumption Gorse’s World Ender isn’t a timed DPS race? Because you’re wrong if you are and need to go back and think again.
Single World Ender? By itself, it isn’t. The dps race is due to the overall timer, and limited number of updrafts.
You do realise you need to phase him twice to cut it off right? Its literally a wipe mechanic on a timer requiring DPS to clear it (have you even fought him?)
…and you are the one saying nomads are bad because they can ignore boss mechanics.
No, he’s suggesting that nomads COULD be bad IF they could ignore boss mechanics. Your head must be 3 meters thick.
Well, I’m not saying I’m playing nomad, lol…but I don’t agree… 10 guardians in nomad would be fightining VG for so long that they would actually create more opportunity to a fail. On Gorseval they would wipe, and on Sabetha the same….your understanding of the idea of difficulty is faulty.
But if you remove the timer you then need to increase the damage of all mechanics (nomads guardians could just all ignore the green circle on VG for example), which means you’re now trying to balance against both heavy defense comps AND heavy offense comps.
Some damage can be releged to be either armor-ignoring or damaging not a flat value, but percentage of hps (or both). Partywipe mechanics need no balance whatsoever, unless they can be skipped (…gorse phasing you mentioned above), but then it’s more likely it will be dps-specced players that will do the skipping. Not nomads.
This would make the fights easier. which they shouldn’t be.
As I have said MANY times the timer is there for balance, it forces you to play within a time bracket and lets the devs balance around comps that manage there (remove the timer and you need to have burn phases that aren’t trivial for DPS makeups and damage mechanics that aren’t trivial for tank comps – they will fail at one of these at least).
So, you’re basically agreeing it’s there because it is a crutch used so devs don’t need to think of nontrivial and actually difficult mechanics.
Wrong, its there because its an EFFECTIVE way to balance the fight, not because its a lazy way.
The timer is part of development and balance for the encounter AND actually influences the fun you have (if you’re squishy you need to pay attention) AND human attention span is only so good so you need to balance around that too (its actually good for a boss to wipe the group after so long doing it – imagine limitless fights where the hardest boss is found to be beatable with a 45min tank group comp, would just be awful).
Why? It would only be awful if that tank group didn’t need to put any effort. If the effort they put was comparable to a dps group (albeit likely a different one), i see no problem.
But it’s impossible for a tank group to put in the same effort as a dps group unless you make mechanics IGNORE gear which would mean the gear you use is meaningless, like no kitten.
I really hope you understand why the timer is important now.
Yeah. Important to cover for lazy work, or to unnecessarily enforce narrow meta. Neither of which is a good thing. Not really important otherwise.
You continue to insist the timer is a cover for lazy work, yet provide no evidence for this assertion.
(edited by randomguy.1283)
Not this again. Please.
Timers are there so you can’t run 10 nomads hammer guardians and tank your way through every fight.
And what is wrong about that? Weren’t we supposed to play the way we want?
Because raids are supposed to be DIFFICULT duh. (Not that they’re so hard right now)
Inb4 they add a heal check with HP dropping during the fight instead of timer next raid or boon check.
Inb4 they add a heal check with HP dropping during the fight next raid or boon check AND timers.
Again, saying timers are a lazy boss mechanic is like saying driving to work is a lazy way to get there because its an easy solution to a simple problem.
Well, driving to work is a lazy way to get there, isn’kitten It’s just nobody cares, because getting to work is not supposed to be challenging.
As pointed out a million times before, if it wasn’t a dps race you could stack nomads classes and breeze through the bosses.
Again, if boss mechanics allow for that, those are some really bad mechanics.
My point was timers are an EASY WAY to accomplish and EASY GOAL and they do it JUST fine. The boss mechanics DONT ALLOW for that, you know why? BECAUSE THE TIMERS ARE A BOSS MECHANIC.
You have STILL not shown why timers are a bad mechanic. They are not a bad mechanic, they do their job just fine.
You can keep saying “timers are lazy”, “timers are lazy”, “there could be better mechanics” but you have yet to show how, and you keep making up bullkitten reasons why this is the case.
(edited by randomguy.1283)
Because there are better ways of requiring DPS without a gimmicky timer.
Bullkitten