Guild Wars 2

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ok and 6, if you have a low mmr you get more points for winning

The whole thing actively punishes players with high mmrs.

And that isnt just premades. I more or less only duo queue during prime time hours and i have 8m queue times often

If you have low MMR you are being matched up with low MMR people. You’d have to be on the very bottom to consistently get more points for winning but then you’d just go up. Though it probably works when someone doesn’t play during peak times.

lordkrall.7241:

No.
But the fact that you have spent weeks only talking about how much everything sucks and how bad it will be I question why you simply don’t move on with your life.

If I dislike something I tend to move away from it, rather than spending as much time as possible telling everyone else how much it sucks.

I don’t do that in other subforums because I only dislike how this expansion is going to look like. And this subforum was created exactly for that reason, not just for you to praise how event hubs and timed hearts are going to be a major feature that will change gw forever.

lordkrall.7241:

Why are you still here?

Being disappointed with how development works is forbidden now?

Anet is definitely hiding something big. It’s called a disappointment.

Obtena.7952:

I get the concept of analogies. I also know when people put words into my mouth and lie about what I have done ingame.

I never said you had never done instanced content.

Anyway, I just waste my time here. Shame anet still haven’t implemented block feature.

Obtena.7952:

This isn’t new … player’s attitude was always part of my argument, you’re just a little behind the discussion because you can’t seem to stay focused on the topic and you want to make irrelevant comparisons to OW PVE.

Maybe it’s irrelevant for you but comparison between open world and dungeons are relevant for me because they both are used to farm gold, just that one requires a bit more brain cells than the other.

Yes, OW players are toxic too, but the impact on the affected player is much less significant than in dungeons.

Verbal abuse affects them as much. I wouldn’t want to play with toxic players even in open world.

Obtena.7952:

That’s a fix, even if you don’t want to acknowledge it. You can’t solo it if you’re not the only one at the event.

It’s a bandaid fix at best. You are still able to do it just like certain guilds are able to complete triple trouble without any random strangers.

It’s pointless because you want to talk about openworld PVE in a dungeon content thread , tell me things I’ve never said …

The concept of an analogy shouldn’t be hard to understand.

… and telling me things you think I’ve never done.

Present simple implies you don’t do it usually, not that you have never done it.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think player’s interest is enough to change this. That’s as simple as I can put it. I will go way back to one of my initial posts … if Anet doesn’t like what they see as a result of player’s attitudes based on this type of content, I can see why we won’t be getting anymore dungeons until either 1) players attitudes change or 2) Anet rethinks how dungeons work. I doubt #1, I don’t see the business case for #2.

Players’ attitude is now behind your arguments? Open world players are toxic as well, just go to copper boss and start using aoe. Just because you cannot be kicked doesn’t mean it’s less toxic.

Obtena.7952:

So what about it? I think it was bad design .. Anet fixed that with Megaservers. It’s ancient history. It’s not dungeon content. I don’t see the relevance in a thread about dungeon content in the game.

They didn’t fixed nothing, just made harder to find those events alone. Triple wurm is probably harder now with megaservers, right?

If you think GW2 should be a PVP only game based on the fact that someone is able to solo something in PVE, then make a thread about it. I don’t see why you’re trying so hard to start an argument here and derail the thread with sensationalism.

Eh, you can’t even understand a simple analogy. For you, an instanced content that’s soloable is badly designed and shouldn’t be developed any further but soloable open world content designed for 100+ people should be. This discussion is virtually pointless.

How can you even discuss something you don’t do? It’s staggering.

Obtena.7952:

Call me crazy but … if it’s in a 5 man dungeon, it’s not intended to be soloed. Of course nothing stops people doing it so that’s probably not unreasonable. It does say alot about people who complains about challenge. If it’s not intended to be designed to solo, yet people can, I wouldn’t call that good design.

So what about 100+ people events that were being solo-ed before megaservers? Bad design as well? So maybe it’s time for anet to abandon all pve and just focus on pvp.

Obtena.7952:

True, not all dungeons are as bad as Lupi, etc.

Ye, open world is even worse. Imagine that.

Obtena.7952:

This is part of the reason I don’t believe that dungeons are going to be sustainable, challenging content for anyone. They are a dead end. Unless Anet are releasing new dungeons every 3 months, this will always be true. It’s not a good vehicle to deliver challenging content in an efficient manner.

So it’s better to just design open world where 9 out of your 10 skills are not being used? A loot pinata, is that what this game should be? Farming gold in silverwastes just to buy a new weapon set from the gem store. Because right now it appears so.

Nothing, I never said I don’t like instanced content … so … /shrug. I don’t understand why you’re so determined to pick a fight.

I would love to do them more myself if they didn’t have so many things I dislike about them.

It’s a forum, you’re not always going to find likeminded people.

This beta event will most likely be a demo version available to play during pax east. I wouldn’t get my hopes high to see anything we haven’t already seen.

Morfedel.4165:

Generally? Based on which games? Look at GW1; with each expansion, how many dungeons did it have? Heck, how many dungeons did GW1 have at all?

The only expansion that gw1 had added 18 dungeons.

This isn’t WoW. They have said from the beginning that things would be very different. That being the case, things like Vinewrath and some other things added during living story seem to indicate that they have been testing new ideas to engage players.

> vinewrath
> engaging content
Pick one.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t wonder about it, that’s why I can’t understand why you’re arguing with me or what your point is to argue with me about. I think there are many things to be unhappy with in dungeons/fractals; one of them happens to be how they relate to providing content to people that want that very challenging, team content. I would love to do them more myself if they didn’t have so many things I dislike about them.

Dungeons were supposed to be challenging and they were at the start. But since almost nothing changed in 2,5 years they are now too easy. People learnt how to play and the new downscaling doesn’t help it either, in fact, it makes all sub 80 dungeons even more faceroll. Moreover, fractals have rewards which can be summed up with one word – sad.

Before the launch anet had less idea than now how their system works and this time they can design much better encounters which Izzy was talking about in one of the recent interview – how they want a content which isn’t beatable within few tries.

I wonder, though, what you don’t like so much about instanced content. I for one hate open world because it doesn’t teach you anything, it gives you reward for virtually spamming your attacks and you can’t pick your allies.

Obtena.7952:

You’re getting hung up on semantics. If the only issue of the people in this thread is they want instanced content, there are dozens of such things that exist in the game through the existing dungeons and fractals of varying rewards, duration in difficulty. I don’t think that’s the problem here. If so, then I must question how much instanced content is enough to satisfy those that are complaining? Clearly even the varied and numerous existing content isn’t enough.

It’s not an issue of how much instanced content should be but how much instanced content should be focused on by development teams. So far, in two years we got 1 completely new fractal and 4 cut from living story dungeons which are no longer playable. We also got one new path which is deserted because its rewards is too much rng (would be interesting to see if the deleted path had comparable popularity to aether path).

There’s no team focused on dungeons and the bugs are not fixed even after 2 years. I mean, how can you even wonder why people complain when anet virtually doesn’t touch dungeons? It’s mind-boggling for me.

Obtena.7952:

How are dungeons not the environment for hardcore type players? If it’s not, why is there so much dissatisfaction for the dungeon crowd? I think it’s pretty obvious. Do people that want challenging content in a team format have a legitimate issue with the level of difficulty in dungeon content or not? I’m assuming they do; If not, then we might as well shut down all the threads complaining about it.

I don’t see what the similarity or difference between OW and instanced PVE rewards has to do with the the gaming environment that appeals to hardcore type players; regardless of the kind of activities different players like, the game is based on the gold standard. I don’t see what are you trying to suggest by this line of questioning. Perhaps if you explain yourself, I can provide an answer to your question if it’s relevant to the thread.

Hardcore players are players that can play for e.g. 4 hours daily. Raids are usually what hardcore players focus on. Dungeons in this game take about 10-30 minutes to complete and are doable by anyone.

People in this thread want new dungeons not because it’s hardcore but because it’s instanced. They don’t want to be the one player in a hundred pressing 1, where their actions don’t matter. They want to contribute.

Obviously, it should be harder than open world encounters because the coordination will be much higher even without any voice communication.

Obtena.7952:

That’s not what I said. You missed my point … that’s OK because it’s worth repeating. I will make a more general statement:

If Anet wants to appeal to a certain category of player, they need to provide an environment that is similar to what the other players get in the game. Dungeons are not that environment for that type of player.

How they are not? Explain the difference between open world pve rewards and instanced pve rewards then.

Obtena.7952:

OK, now, hardcore PVE players … um, some abandoned dungeon content that just repeats itself. Rewards yes, but progression (talking levels, bonus, rank SPECIFIC to dungeons), nada.

Dungeons are for hardcore players? Dungeons take on avg. 10-30 minutes, that’s perfectly casual and even less time than the full breach progress with vinewrath.

Those pve players who want instanced pve content want to matter, they don’t want to be a zergling pressing 1 to get a new reward. They want to be rewarded for their effort.

lordkrall.7241:

Time challenge in burning vines is a single example of a much larger system. Adventures.
Then there is the whole outpost system. And yes I would say they both seems rather big.

Adventures are basically slightly harder hearts and outposts are just events hub. If you believe they are large features, it doesn’t take much to please you as a customer.

How can you know what are the costs of developing pvp?

Both pvp and instanced pve need constant stream of a new content (maps, modes, etc) and pvp players require as well a constant attention to the balance. 6 months balance periods are way too long.

The last WTS tournament got about 12k viewers despite 50k prize on the table, that’s less than some random wow streamer gets daily. Riot and valve put millions of dollars into esports yet anet wants to get some bites with 150,000$. Plus, the game is hardly watchable.

Windsagio.1340:

but why?

$$$

Windsagio.1340:

What’s a better alternate interpretation for them pushing one and not the other?

They desperately want esports.

Loex.5104:

Sure they are called raids because of the larger number of players but technically they are nothing but large dungeons with more mechanics which require more coordination. And coordination and mechanics are not bound to a lot of people you can implement nearly every mechanic into 5man content.

True but I’m arguing with other poster that raids are played only by 10% players (according to lotro devs) because it requires a higher degree of coordination and more effort and that dungeons were abandoned because of that (which I don’t agree with).

Loex.5104:

actually raids are nothing but dungeons with bosses where you have to use a special tactic to beat them (mostly with different phases where your group has to do different things -> organisation) – that concept is 100% usable in normal 5 man group content (i think its harder for open world content but its possible).

I Think thats why ANet hired Raid and AI designers – not to implement raids as we know (10 – 25 or 40 man) but to implement interesting mechanics in all content-types

You quoted the wrong person.

Raids are called raids because you need more people which usually implies required coordination. And I agree that hiring a raid designer doesn’t mean there are going to be typical raids in gw2.

Vayne.8563:

So why did Anet stop supporting them? What’s your theory?

I work in software development (much bigger company than anet) and management always make bizarre decision but if I had to guess it was simply a reorganization of their teams to support their biweekly updates plus the community reaction at aetherpath which isn’t popular because of its design.

Invoker.5462:

Whatever man if you believe that its all based on time played i’m not really motivated to convince you otherwise. You just linked a source which points to that same pdf i linked. gg man, gg

The new leaderboard is not tied to MMR at all. Glicko2 is used for calculating your MMR but your leaderboard position isn’t, e.g. you can be number 1 on the leaderboard and at 50% MMR.

lordkrall.7241:

Keep in mind that Outposts and Adventures seems to be quite major part of the new maps, and yet we heard a grand total of nothing at all about them during the announcement. So I would say it is fully possible that there are some big things left to tell us.

Time challenge in burning vines being a major feature? No wonder this game is so casual.

Vayne.8563:

A lotro dev talked about raids in Lotro when Lotro stopped supporting raiding.. He said only 10% of the population ever raided in Lotro, since the beginning. He also said that the same demographic accounts for 50% of the forum posts.

Raids aren’t even close to dungeons. There’s no organization needed to complete almost any dungeon in this game (except aetherpath, this in conjunction with rng rewards and its length is most likely the reason of its failure) and you only need 4 more people.

Windsagio.1340:

Zaw, the essential flaw in your argument is that they pretty clearly quit making dungeons due to participation issues. If they thought it was just lack of new content they likely would have done the opposite :p

Do you have any metrics? PvP is dead yet they constantly shove esports down our throats.

Windsagio.1340:

I have some buddies I do fractals with; occasionally the concept comes up of whether we should do some dungeon speedruns to make some $$$. It’s never about anything else though.

Because people play silverwastes for fun.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

I like the GW2 way of dealing with damage modifiers. I find it much more intuitive than the way of most other games: if you pick +10% you get +10% in every case. This makes decision making simple and effective. I wish every aspect of the game followed this philosophy, but many things are hidden behind a superfluous wall of complexity (skill animation times for example).

Exactly, it’s simpler and more easy to understand than additive percentage points.

Fade.1743:

Okay….programming info-dump time.

When using floating point numbers (AKA decimals), depending on the value there will always be slight inconsistencies with the decimal to binary transformation. Less of these exist when you are using larger data types for floating points (such as double and long double), but they exist regardless.

While MATHEMATICALLY you are correct, our decimal based mathematics does not always translate into binary-based mathematics. The reason that percentages were additive in some games was for two reasons: 1) Adding is cheaper than multiplying (any number). 2) Adding is more precise than multiplying decimals (aka, floating point numbers).

Now that’s only taking into account the damage modifiers. The damage of every attack in an RPG is based on a pseudo-random number generator. Taking into account both the randomness of the amount of the attacks and the inconsistency inherit to the system, it is now more difficult to balance encounters for both players and mobs.

The most accurate decimal representation of 32 bit number 1.1f is 1.10000002384185791015625. If they use double precision it’s 1.10000000000000008881784197001. Do you really argue about the imprecision of this?

Both fmul and fadd have comparable speed on present cpus. Any operation on a floating point number is complicated — both addition and multiplication basically require steps that add and multiply or shift the component parts of the float.

By using an additive percentage system, you can more easily balance because the damage multiplication will be significantly more consistent and precise. ((I only mentioned cheaper because older games have less hardware to work with so that’s not relevant in this day and ages))

I’d assume that Anet either has the inconsistencies that WILL occur in this translation accounted for and put into an error range or the calculations are all done in binary before the numbers are reported on our skills.

The point of all that above is this. In a perfect world where we can translate every real decimal number into a real binary number, multiplication using floating point numbers would work exactly like it does for the decimal world of mathematics. But it doesn’t. We don’t exist in that world. So some broken math has to be implemented in order to get the code to work in more consistent and measurable fashion.

Additive percentage system is actually not consistent. Adding a 10% damage modifier doesn’t always increase your damage output by 10%. For a user, it makes it confusing. Precision hardly holds any merit here when eventually all numbers are most likely cast to comparable small integers.

pandas.9450:

Probably confusing toxic with just being lazy. If someone bothers to put a requirements on their lfg, they deserve to get what they requested. I recently helped lvl a friend thru dungeons and only requirement i had up was to aleast know the dungeon and it filled quickly with pros and casuals and no one demanding blah blah. The community is only toxic to those who force to be carried and plain out right ignore to read

“/s” has a particular meaning.

twisted fate.7251:

Hmm, after reading that it still dosent explain why these issues have only occured after the patch for 90% of us, and why turning the ui off returns our fps to normal..

This thread is about network lag, not fps drop. Two completely different issues.

I’m arguing with your initial statement. 10% more damage is 10% more damage.

Fade.1743:

I believe damage modifiers are multiplicative rather than additive in this game. So that 10% more damage (which is always active on a Dagger) is a bigger increase overall.

And if other games have additive modifiers it means their programmers have no clue how percentages work as well. You don’t add them like you would add normal integeres or floats. 10% more damage isn’t 10 more percentage point which is what other games are using.

Thaddeus.4891:

So clearly we are saying the same thing rotten. Still can’t figure out why you had to make your post in the first place.

Because of this:

Fade.1743:

I believe damage modifiers are multiplicative rather than additive in this game. So that 10% more damage (which is always active on a Dagger) is a bigger increase overall.

It doesn’t matter how many damage modifiers you have, adding another one will increase your damage output by 10%. Always.

Fade.1743:

10% = .1, so 4*.1 is .4…which is 40%

Now, if you start doing the correct order of operation which is x+x*.1 (alternatively x*1.1) and repeat that as necessary, then yes, you are correct.

Math is simple. Using incorrect terminology and rhetoric is makes it not so simple!

It’s actually plus 10% not just 10%. And that’s 1.1 which multiplied 4 times gives 1.4641.

Lawful.5314:

Pretty sure its 10%, and pretty sure its 40%.

The game doesn’t multiply 10%x10%x10%, it just adds them up to 30% then multiplies your damage rating from there.

If that would be the case, adding another 10% dmg modifier wouldn’t actually increase anything by 10% but by about 7.6% (in case of the 4th dmg modifier).

Really, math is simple, don’t try to make it harder. Adding 10% more damage has to increase your damage output by 10%. Otherwise it wouldn’t be 10%.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/December-10th-Elementalist-changes/page/7#post3150470

I think I’ve been here too long

10% is still 10%.
4 times 10% isn’t 40%.
Math is simple.

Their impact is always the same, e.g. 10%. That’s just how percentage works.

Anet ‘accidentally’ deleted low post processing option. There’s only no post processing or high post processing. Good luck to your eyes.

10% is 10%. Math is simple.

Astralporing.1957:

You can get other things from the chests as well. For example, did you know they can drop ascended gear boxes?

Yes, I know. But I haven’t said that you cannot get anything out of those chests except champ bags.

Bubi.7942:

Dunno, it seems pretty explicit to me: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perseverance

I’m pretty sure you misunderstood me. I’m saying that when you open a chest your MF increases for about 1s (which wiki seems to confirm) and that would make sense only if your entire MF was calculated for those chests, not just the bonus one you get from Perseverance. Besides, I thought people farmed bandit chests for champ bags which are not affected by MF.

VodCom.6924:

Technically, these dungeons were less buggy and offered more interesting challenges/puzzles than the AC I run daily.

The fact they got re-integrated in fractals because of community lobbying should tell you how appreciated they were.

Less buggy? I wouldn’t say so. Mai trin’s cannons phase is probably one of the most prominent bug in fractals and everyone complains about that.

Also, a lot of people don’t like time gated challenges.

Bubi.7942:

Sidenote:
@maddoctor: afaik MF doesn’t effect bandit loot chest, only the silverwastes event MF buff does (dunno what’s it called).

There’s nothing official about that but when you open a bandit chest your MF increases by the bonus MF and that makes only sense when your MF matters there.

Dungeons have never been required to explore yet they are more connected to Tyria than WvW. You only had to farm one dungeon for a specific gift.

maddoctor.2738:

You can still use Magic Find on random mobs and the Lost Bandit Chests.

They still should make event loot affected by MF just like pvp containers are.

lordkrall.7241:

They merged the dungeon team into the LS teams. And two of the most celebrated dungeons (Molten Dungeon and Aetherblade Retreat) were done AFTER that happened.

Most celebrated?? o.O