Guild Wars 2

WEXXES.2378:

Doesn’t count because that person is using an exploit to completely remove the most dangerous part of the boss.

Show me someone sitting through that poison AoE and not caring about anything and still living and then I’ll agree its overpowered.

Which exploit is that? Her attack had a minimal range, it’s not an exploit to stand in melee range unless using melee weapon is an exploit.

There’s a video of nomad warrior tanking mossman solo and killing him eventually.
There are videos of full clerics guardian tanking mossman while his/her team focus on dps without even being targeted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Holy-Trinity-is-back-Cleric-Guard-FOTM

Let it be clear, this game favours active support rather than reactive and that was known way before the launch.

Vayne.8563:

What makes you think that technology isn’t being fed back through the professions in specializations which they haven’t covered yet. It’s short sighted to think that new technology isn’t something moving forward that makes the game better, possibly much better?

With the ability to add better skills and more specializations this becomes almost a new game.

Some people can see it, some can’t.

How much time do you think they spend on this new exciting “technology”?

Zenith.7301:

Well, yeah. Maybe the mobs should just not attack at all so your choice is made easy and you just stack might and get your gold 1 minute after.

Since that seems to be what you people are after. Just stack on something and zerg it down with ice bow as some type of amazing, engaging play.

This game is a virtual princess simulator, don’t expect engaging gameplay from it.

Zenith.7301:

Then make AI and encounters that necessitate the use of these conditions. Make something like the Mordrem Lurcher in the labyrinth that can one shot you and ignores aegis/is immune to blinds, voila you actually need to control it.

Immune to stealth as well? Do you really think anet should reduce the number of choices in order to increase build diversity? Just like all those quotas…

Aggrostemma.1703:

My question: can I get full map completion without a PvE map?

Just you know… pve-ers hate to go to wvw and get a SM vista. I hate the Pve maps to get…. basically everything… traits-skill points-achievements-gold.

I’m speechless…

Yes, you can. Dungeons are excluded already.

Everyone hates map completion so the less there is to do the better.

lordkrall.7241:

For getting optimal at support and control?

Giver’s.

Right, an additional 6% boon duration will make berserker’s perform “quite badly” compared to giver’s. Are you aware that you lose 164 stats for wearing giver’s armour?

Vayne.8563:

If dungeons are such a major part of the game, why is Anet not paying them any attention? I’m curious.

Seems they talk a lot about PvP and have a PvP show, even. And they do run WvW tournaments, and they’re adding a new map and making changes. If so many people were running dungeons by percentage, why wouldn’t Anet support them more?

It’s true that there may be enough people to have a relatively small dungeon community and still not have to wait long for dungeon queues, but you know, it’s only five guys at a time. And some guys spam dungeons, so they keep going in, keeping the pool alive.

I’m guessing that only a small percentage of the playerbase regularly does dungeons. I sort of suspect that the living world wouldn’t be the living world if everyone were ignoring it and doing dungeons.

PvP is dead yet they try to push esports since 2012, constantly failing. Averaging 1-2k viewers is far from being an esport.

Besides, you’re comparing a sub game mode to a whole game mode. How big is a pvp community that plays only ranked games?

lordkrall.7241:

Condition duration?
Boon duration?

Let me rephrase, which gear should I pick instead of berserker’s?

lordkrall.7241:

Nothing stops you from doing it. But you will be doing it quite badly compared to someone that actually have the stats for it.

Gear is rather often seen as a part of a build after all.

Which gear helps me in being better at controlling mobs? Which stat exactly?

For support, healing power helps only in reactive support which is much worse than active one.

Red Queen.7915:

I’ll laugh so hard if they put in new dungeons that are impossible to complete as a full zerker group and actually require you to move around and bring different builds and skill sets to even stand a chance.

…then I’ll rejoice and probably play more dungeons than ever.

Ye….

I don’t think you understand the difference between a build and a gear. Since when using zerker gear stops you from running full support or full control spec?

Kedarrian.2905:

If i read this correrctly, this Twitch guy has 16k followers. And GW2 has over 2 mill players.

So if a percentage of his followers pick up the game or not, it really doesnt amount ot much in the grand scheme of the numbers.

And if as OP says, his fanbase are toxic and troll kiddo’s, i expect GW2 will be of very little interest.

Gw2 on twitch averages with about 1k-2k viewers.

aspirine.6852:

I doubt an expansion for gw2 without dungeons would sell really well. It would be a big mistake not include normal dungeons and a few elite ones.

You’re so wrong. Dungeons are a tiny portion of the vast world that is Tyria. Moreover, the dungeon community is very toxic, makes you wear zerk gear and forces you to stack. Developing new dungeons would just result in other content being underdeveloped. /s

Larynx.2453:

This.

Who honestly thought Berserker was a good idea. It is perfectly itemized, giving a player every single damage stat they want. With Power/Precision/X, at least we get a basic choice between Healing Power, Vitality, or Toughness. Additionally, without Ferocity scaling Precision becomes weaker, even allowing Power/X/Y to be viable. The exponential curve is less steep without Ferocity on gear.

I’d be all for adding two more stats with the removal of Ferocity and Condi Damage. Condi Duration, Boon Duration (in relevant amounts) are probably first in line. We could also see a Profession specific stat that gives you a % bonus towards whatever your 6th trait lines happens to be. Call it Finesse, lets say.

If you merge power with condition damage then condition duration is counter-productive since it strengthens condition damage just like ferocity strengthens power (precision applies to both because of procs).

lordkrall.7241:

PvP is a game mode, they won’t really scrap a game mode unless there were really good reasons for it. And based on the amount of tournaments they have it seems rather likely that PvP is actually a rather active thing.

Dungeons are part of a game mode on the other hand, in which most people don’t do them.

You post is also very ironic..

It’s a dead game mode, released unfinished, might as well scrap that since pvpers are not buying gems and not supporting anet /s

Elementalists, the most squishest class, don’t even use their healing skill to heal. What would that change?

Anet could implement a daily cap. One level per day so everyone has a lot of time to learn the new class.

Jump dodge isn’t better than normal dodge. It’s being used because of two things:

1) looks “kewl”
2) you can jump further

In other words, jump dodging is better than jumping but not better than dodging.

Gaaroth.2567:

ORLY? /15owls

I’m not sure if you are making fun of me or you are genuinely surprised but dailies are predetermined.

But it’s arguably harder to use those evade frames on purpose because of the delay.

But it’s not random.

Even if somehow that would be the case, what stops people from using crafting to level up in 2 hours? Do you want to restrict that as well?

Brother Grimm.5176:

If this argument is about Dungeon runs, isn’t there a forum for that topic?

I have yet to see anyone in other areas of the game being chastised for not being “zerker meta” so this does appear to be a Dungeon run issue or am I mistaken?

You are not.

I mentioned that few times but people chose to ignore that.

Caeledh.5437:

Why would it need to be maintained?

The purpose of a taunt, as I said, is to draw attacks away from another player. Since in GW2 players can move, dodge, evade etc. spamming a taunt would be pointless. A “tank” would only need to taunt if an ally was being beaten bloody, eg. cc’ed and unable to defend themselves.

But in those circumstances they could save them, tank-style, with a taunt. That’s not the trinity as you see it in many other MMOs but it does finally introduce the potential for roles. One player in a team with all +toughness and +vitality gear could actually play a vital role – i.e. contribute just as much to the team’s success and speed as someone geared for DPS.

You can taunt only one mob and they are not usually alone.

Rehero.7821:

Which is cool I would be happy then. Not sure why this needed to blow up the way it did.

Anet devs said they won’t be tinkering with the old content so any cries about old dungeons are just futile. And they said we’ll get some challenging content.

Rehero.7821:

This is completely fine, however there is literally 0 reason to bring a healing power set over a berserk set while using those particular skills, which is AGAIN all I am saying. I would like to feel some appreciation or value in having a set design to ramp my healing up instead of feeling worried that my team is going to get upset that I am harming the speed at which they kill the boss. Why is it a bad thing to have mechanics that promote the use of someone using healing power or durability but not require it?

There will be a reason once a content is challenging enough and pugs will require higher sustain to complete it. It’s simple.

Rehero.7821:

The thread is still going on because the point remains that gear designed to make the player deal more damage is so much more efficient in every stage of pve than anything else. I don’t care what you call it, dps support tank there doesn’t seem to be anyone refuting it, and this is something that should change.

It’s efficient because it’s a game mostly driven by your actions rather than your stats. Honestly, what point do you see in having higher gear diversity when your gameplay is virtually the same? There is exactly no difference in gameplay whatsoever whether you play with berserker’s or nomad’s if your build is for instance 00266 ele.

Also, for the 9003th time, this whole notion of toxic zerk meta applies only to dungeons which are no longer developed. Open world is where all the fun is and there gear diversity is achieved making this whole tread pointless.

Rehero.7821:

Who said anything like that? I would accuse you of putting words in my mouth but this is an outlandish claim.

Incentive to bring someone more durable, incentive to bring someone to alleviate some unavoidable damage, incentive to bring someone to condi stack. These are things I feel need to be in the game for pve. Why is this such a bad thing if it is not required?

Support skills and other such things are usable on everything including damage gear and I am ok with this, but it isn’t until someone equips more durable or healing oriented gear to amplify those skills that I consider them anything other than a dps

You don’t consider players using support builds with dps gear support oriented. That’s why this thread still exists, because people can’t accept the fact that this makes them more supportive than dps in reality.

Rehero.7821:

I don’t misunderstand anything when I say that if a person brings berserkers gear and utility skills geared for granting boons they are still a dps oriented build. Support skills and other such things are usable on everything including damage gear and I am ok with this, but it isn’t until someone equips more durable or healing oriented gear to amplify those skills that I consider them anything other than a dps. It is because of the way the trinity works in this game that I say this. I find it completely outlandish to say that if I were to equip Nomad’s gear I would be considered someone built to do damage. This same thing applies to someone whom equips berserker’s, doesn’t matter what their utility skills and traits are they are set up to deal more damage.

The problem now lies in that the gear sets, nomads and apothecary and other such things fall so short in comparison to full damage sets which is all I am saying. I don’t intend to suggest any buffs for support or durable sets, simply fight mechanics that provide incentive for them, but not require them. Mechanics that make the general populace go, we could run with a full team of dps or we could make our lives a bit easier during boss x by bringing someone whom can provide a bit more healing. Which is something I would figure everyone would want.

How does healing oriented gear amplify condition clearing or boon application? How does durable gear amplify stuns, dazes, etc?

You can report those kind of people as much as you want, anet won’t do anything against them. They couldn’t ban players using memory-reading-only interrupt bots in gw1 with video proofs of machine-like interrupts.

Rehero.7821:

I disagree with mostly everything in your post besides this comment. However I felt this was the most important and rendered everything else moot. Changing the scaling and such isn’t really needed I don’t think anything as it stands should change just mechanics that are more accepting towards things other than just burning down the boss and dodging out of red circles.

It’s much easier to stay alive if you constantly have boons like regen and prot. You don’t need high damage to steer pugs into more support, you need steady, intense pressure.

Rehero.7821:

Yes I would consider that a dps role. There is no real incentive in running healing power on the 0/0/2/6/6, when you could get all of that condi clear for yourself and your group while still running a damage set. Yes you have support things but I still fully consider you a dps role. People whom wish to dedicate to support running healing power is a drop in efficiency and have no real merit in dungeons when you get that utility for free without stats applied.

I consider people whom stack area might and run berserkers dps.I consider people whom trait for area condi clear(your example with the ele) and still have berserkers dps. I consider people whom put up guardian walls or feedback bubbles and have berserkers dps.

The problem is simply that there isn’t incentive enough a deversity in your sets. You CAN run them, or you could run damage and still bring utility skills that don’t scale off of stats.

This isn’t to say these utility skills SHOULD scale off of stats but instead that there should be reasons that having a healing power or defensive oriented character would help and not be considered a hindrance. I believe this is all people are asking for really. Not sure why you wouldn’t want diversity to be promoted.

You see, that’s exactly why this topic is still alive. Because you and others call 00266 ele in berserker’s gear dps role. It would be much better to call it bruiser which is a build with high effective health and damage per second. But this bruiser has a lot of support (pvpers want it nerfed because it’s so strong).

Going from berserker’s gear -> soldier’s gear will reduce your dps by about 30% while doubling your effective hp. Ele going from 66200 to 00266 will gut his own dps.

What I get from all of the PAX interviews is that they want players to use skills for something more than just pure damage and they want players to use them wisely.

tigirius.9014:

Zerker is glass cannon in some circles it’s called DPS which means it’s very much a role. Please just stop if your only arguments are semantics.

So let’s assume I have full ascended zerker gear. I won’t swap it to something else because it costs a tremendous amount of money and I like my gear to be pinky. I play ele 0/0/2/6/6 with full healing, might stacking and condi clearing traits. Am I still acting as a dps role?

Windsagio.1340:

I just can’t go along with that man. If for instance your skills and traits are centered towards generating conditions and condition damage and you have no gear and only base +300 from your trait line, you are going to suck. A fire/staff ele in Nomads gear is going to be terrible because he doesn’t have stats to support any damage output

Some traits and abilities are essentially stat agnostic, that is true, and some take only minor effect from stats. Your overall playstyle is heavily stat-dependent, however..

“A fire/staff ele” in soldier’s gear has ~70% damage potential of berserker’s ele while having about twice as much effective health.

xDudisx.5914:

Are you implying that they only do class balance every 6 months? They just shaved d/d drake’s breath, might stacks, and several other changes a few weeks ago.

Were you born yesterday? When was the last balance change? The beginning of September. When was the change before that? The beginning of April. And the last balance change hardly change anything in the meta.

spoj.9672:

I dont know about the rest of you. But a game which creates diversity through traits, weapons and utilities sounds better than a game which creates diversity in just gear stats.

Yes but most of the people here are still living in the old mmorpgs. It’s quite difficult to change their world view.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Here’s a random question: can Rampagers ever be optimal? Every situation I can think of where it would be good, one of the other three you listed just does much better.

An encounter with a lot of reflects and a heavy armoured boss?

Shiki.7148:

:p Nope. That isn’t diversity, and you know it. Diversity is every playtsyle having a thing it is best at and is needed. You CAN still zerk a boss with very high armor and lower HP, it just will take longer than using condis. Other way round too, like it is now : you CAN still beat the bosses with condi, it will just take longer than using Zerk. The problem is, Zerker is optimal for EVERYTHING except those few triple trouble enemies currently, which is bad. A “quota” would force the usage of classes specced like that and thats trinity. Having a boss / dungeon where zerker isn’t king just means that people could go condi if they wanted to run it optimally…or stay zerker and take a little longer.

It’s a gear diversity for the sake of the gear diversity. There’s no point in that except to crash ascended mats market.

You want gameplay diversity, not gear diversity.

Lawful.5314:

Umm…?

Soothing mist, soothing wave, healing ripple, cleansing wave, cleansing water (5/6)
Renewing stamina, Lingering Elements, Elemental Atunement, Evasive Arcana (4/6)

Are all defensive traits taken for survivability, i am not sure how they are not.
Its healing and healing and condi clear plus buffs gotten from swapping attunement with the most important ones being obviously earth for protection and water for condi clear and healing again.

Yeah, as i said, we run 6 arcana and water for survivability, not for anything else, the damage boost we get from those traits is highly circumstantial.

Please don’t include lingering elements.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Nope.

In theory 9s of fury with a trigger mechanic that has a 10s cd is quite good for a master trait (although weapon swapping is mechanically inferior to attunement swapping). But in practice this trait gives 5s of fury apparently?

It’s also not affected by chill.

Is Furious Grip OP?

Shiki.7148:

Thing is: If ONE Boss in a dungeon would be like that, one like the current bosses so better with Zerker etc. you would either have to take a balanced team into said dungeon, or have a set-up where 2-3 players can change from zerker to toughness-condi, or have 2 zerkers change to knights and have ranged condi, or or or…

-> Diversity! YAY!

See, that is how easy you could do it. But, of course, there is a downside to that too, not going to ignore that : Meta might simply shift to a class that can pull off both easily.

Other possibility : Create dungeons where condi is king, others where zerker is king and others where boon removal and condi cleanse is king etc. One Meta per dungeon, but something for everybody. I think it was a litle like this in GW1.

There, two easy ways to give different playstyles the chance of rocking the hood. you’re welcome. Not that A-Net would read this and think about doing any of it ._.

I almost forgot. There will be no new dungeons and they will not touch the old ones.

Shiki.7148:

Thing is: If ONE Boss in a dungeon would be like that, one like the current bosses so better with Zerker etc. you would either have to take a balanced team into said dungeon, or have a set-up where 2-3 players can change from zerker to toughness-condi, or have 2 zerkers change to knights and have ranged condi, or or or…

-> Diversity! YAY!

See, that is how easy you could do it. But, of course, there is a downside to that too, not going to ignore that : Meta might simply shift to a class that can pull off both easily.

Other possibility : Create dungeons where condi is king, others where zerker is king and others where boon removal and condi cleanse is king etc. One Meta per dungeon, but something for everybody. I think it was a litle like this in GW1.

There, two easy ways to give different playstyles the chance of rocking the hood. you’re welcome. Not that A-Net would read this and think about doing any of it ._.

Honestly, this “diversity is good” argument starts to sound like its real life equivalent. Maybe it’s time for anet to introduce quotas? For example:

- at least 20% of your party needs to have at least 1000 healing power
- at least 20% of your party needs to have at least 1000 condition damage
- at least 20% of your party needs to have at least bonus 1000 toughness
- at least 20% of your party needs to have at least bonus 1000 vitality

How about that? Diversity would be achieved.

Nikkinella.8254:

That’s the exact reason why they SHOULD be added to spvp. So it can finally get the nerfs it deserves in wvw. Pretty much everyone in wvw is a condi bunker with perplexity. something needs to be done about it. And anet doesnt give a crap about wvw, so the only way we can see this OP crap nerfed is if they put it into spvp. So i’m all in favor of adding dire and perplexity in for the sole purpose of them being nerfed finally.

People here don’t want to sacrifice 6 months just for anet to shave this rune in wvw.

Tim.6450:

Where you argue that people with sub optimal gear choices still can do content and therefor the zerg meta is not an issue. My comment: “Playable and optimal are two different things.” implies that the issue is not playability of content but the optimality of zerker in the content.

For the 9002th time, zerk meta occurs only in dungeons and they are no longer supported by anet. Try arguing against non-existant meta in a content that will be developed and supported beyond yearly bug fixes.

Tim.6450:

damage and survivability in one, is not new look at zerk hammer guardian. It does decent amount of damage but it gives insane amounts of AOE protection. My suggestion is one or the other. Reflects are another example high defense and damage in one (it also favors zerk, because it uses your precision and ferocity).

Also zerker has gotten advantages in other content: kudu has a one shot mechanic that ignore hp and armor (pretty sure jade maw has similar attack) , mordrem menders get interupted at crits, … . So why is soldier having an advantage in another fight unfair?

Because what you propose will make soldier universally better.

BlackBeard.2873:

-Renewing stamina is moved to the air line at adept. CD is increased to 10s icd.

Mesmer’s and guardian’s vigour trait is still minor trait.

I HIGHLY doubt the new specialization will be pvp-viable. I believe specializations will give you new skills and a trait-line but lock you out of your professions-specific trait-line. For ele in pvp, who is balanced around all having some of the incredibly OP traits in arcana, not having access to that trait line (and thus renewing stamina and elemental attunement) is simply unviable. The only way this can work is if they change the class so its not balanced around 100% of pvp-viable specs going so deep into arcana.

I’m not sure that locking the last trait line was confirmed. But I’m highly sceptical about the viability of the new specialisation.

tigirius.9014:

I think people have forgotten that these games are called MMORPGs for a reason. The R in RPG stands for Role as in you have a role to fulfill. This game is lacking Roles outside of the Zerker meta which is the reason why these threads have appeared since the onset of the game. They don’t have to make it mandatory but the least they could do is make it an option it’s not going to hurt the Zerker crowd in the slightest if they make it more complex.

They keep saying they want people to group well give people a reason to group that’s what people want.

Except that’s not a role in the tactical sense (tank, healer, dps).

Windsagio.1340:

2) Even if you break defiance, and the boss is one that has susceptibility when broken (as compared to a special effect), taunt is missing the primary function of traditional taunts, in that it doesn’t change your position in the threat calculation (except for a small boost from proximity). Thus it cannot be used effectively to control threat the way a standard taunt does.

When you break defiance, a boss isn’t susceptible, it reacts predeterminedly. You cannot use taunt even to change its position, similarly to how you cannot use push, pull and launch.

Caeledh.5437:

They may use those exact words but it’s not accurate or they wouldn’t call it a taunt.

I think what’s accurate to say is that it is not exactly the same as taunts from other MMOs. But it has the same basic function – to draw attacks away from other players onto yourself.

This is one the key tools of a tank.

Ergo it’s introduction into GW2 is a clear step back from their no-trinity stance.

It costs 50 energy and lasts 3 seconds. Good luck maintaining it.