Guild Wars 2

Kidel.2057:

You take 7 more skills with warhorn alone. Longest water field, pulsing aoe bling, 3 might+copy of all boons aoe, longest fire field, aoe water knockback, aoe stunbreak.

Longest fire field with the longest cooldown and I can’t find any stunbreaker on that offhand.

Oh come on. Ele warhorn may be the best weapon in the game. They’re even doing a new set of sound effects.

Without those sound effects people would get annoyed quite fast, 8 skills with the exact same animation and sound, the sound which isn’t quite pleasant to an ear.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

It’s a dumb trait especially because it’s ONLY for allies not for yourself – this is a grandmaster trait with ZERO benefit for yourself, that’s even worse than the minor water grandmaster.

Why do I know that it doesn’t stunbreak on yourself? Because none of the warhorn skills are instant and you cannot use non-instant skills while stunned.

This supportive playstyle will revolutionize ele.

Jski.6180:

Mobs run from you in pve often? Do you often fight mobs who have to deal with 5 targets caps and you do not? How often do you need to burn though 8 boons on mobs in pve? Are you one of thoughts if its off cd you must use it becuse then i see your point but then your not playing ele as a class right your kind of just faces rolling your keyboard.

Then why are you responding to me and the other guy when we clearly are complaining about pve?

Jski.6180:

You really should watch the video and lesson to what they are saying and watch the numbers and how things work before posting any more on this. A lot of the horn skills are going to be on a crazy level of OP. As things stand wildfire can apply 8 stacks of burning and remove what seems to be 8 boons. Orb of lighting is effectively “DO NOT RUN OR YOU DIE” skill. Earth 5 is i blind every one and who chairs about a 5 person cap for you weaklings. There is not one skill on the horn that is weak or useless like you find with eles foces and even dagger off hand from time to time. I am fear-full they over did it with the WH it may need nerfs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIQNnE6LyX4

We’re talking about pve right?

maddoctor.2738:

You are not losing as much damage as you think you do while channeling, because you do damage while channeling, overload is not just some big effect at the end of the casting.

Fire Overload does damage, applies burn on foes, gives might stacks on allies while channeling for every pulse. So depending on how often it pulses it should give more damage than your auto attacks.

The big “problem” of Fire Overload is the less than dagger range.

Also, Overload does not lock you out of your attunement. You can use overload fire and stay in fire the cooldown of the overload is only a problem if you change attunements.

The damage of those overload is low already, the fact you channel them for 4 and a half second makes them even worse.

If those tools will be ever used in pve.

Bean Muncher.5197:

Following the OP’s logic, the warhorn would only be king in open world PvE with no bosses. Like map completion. Gamebreaking, I know.

But apparently it’s all people care about. Tempest has flashy skill effects (skill animation is the exact same animation for all 8 warhorn skills) so the general casual population is excited about it.

5s not a long channel. I guess the only long channel is bandage skill then.

Moreover, only water overload is 2,5s, the rest are kitten.

Dagger builds don’t stay even 5 seconds in one attunement except d/f fresh air in pve.

Good luck getting those traits when you need to pick tempest spec first, then probably arcane and water magic.

4/5, from pve perspective it won’t be used there.

Glyph of storms also doesn’t take 4 and a half seconds to cast.

Back line sharing in pve? What are you trying to say? There’s no backline in pve…

Both offhands have 2 blast finishers. Warhorn has 0 though you could argue fire#4 can work like a blast finisher in fire fields.

nearlight.3064:

So you’ve been kicked for running non-staff ele….? I bring necromancer in fractals and no one gives a kitten.

I don’t pug so no but if you were to join a party advertised as “meta zerk” or something similar then good luck. Not everyone wants to spend twice as much time to reap the same rewards. If you join typical phiw parties, sure, you can pay whatever you want. Maybe even tempest will find its home there, just like staff necro did.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Do note that overloading doesn’t force you out of your atunement, only puts it on a longer cooldown if you were to swap out. I can see Glass Staff Tempest being somewhat viable in PvE (not top tier like what we have currently). Also, Ele already shines in PvE, I believe specializations are designed to help a class do what it normally can’t.

So that’s the reason for bad elite spec? Good enough already.

Tempest is flashy and that’s all the phiw crowd cares about. The spec mechanics, overloads, are simply dps losses with almost no benefits. Warhorn lacks finishers, the only animation is blowing it (who could have guessed), there’s no defense except a blinding field. Shouts are miserable and they even lack a trait to improve their potential. What else is there? Right, traits… Don’t get me started on that one.

oZii.2864:

Hmm maybe I am missing something, but to me it looks like a much better focus.

The overcharge doesn’t look mandatory the trait is, but you aren’t forced to overload the attunement you have 5 seconds to get off what you need to in an attunement and switch if not then you will overload.

The biggest downside I saw was if you do get stunned in an attunement then you could overload if you didn’t want to, so your choices are to swap while stunned which has the down side of putting that attunement on the normal cooldown or to use a stun break, which if that GM trait applies to you then you can break stuns with regular warhorn skills.

Other than that my first impression is that it’s a much better focus.

Paying attention to karls damage with Carrion on against Svanir or Golems he was criting for 1k-1.2k on just about every skill that had a damage component except the Air 5 which didn’t seem that bad when he used it on Svanir he put 20 stacks of Vuln on him.

Is it pvp you are talking about?

Not seeing replacing focus with this offhand (which btw has 8 exact motion animations, surprise, surprise). It lacks blasts finishers and the fire field is on very long cooldown. Maybe for WvW, who knows.

nearlight.3064:

A couple of things:

PvE in this game is so kitten easy, it honestly doesn’t matter what you bring in my eyes (outside of say level 30+ fractals, which I don’t do anymore, or speed runs if you’re into that) as long as you try to max out your damage output as much as you can with your playstyle. And honestly, as an ele, as long as you use icebows like every fight, no ones going to care if you don’t use staff.

Sure, if it’s easy they can design a spec that’s kitten because why not. And you really underestimate people’s kicking potential, ice bow gives you a spike damage while staff has more than 30% damage potential than dagger mainhand.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Both scepter and dagger have 2 blast finisher though on the main hand, and there’s always EA and the arcane heal.

Scepter is unviable currently while dagger has only one blast.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

I don’t get all the warhorn hate. It’s the best thing about this disappointing elite spec.

Giving you access to water and lightning fields outside of staff is already enough to warrant using – or at least thoroughly trying – it. All the skills they’ve previewed seem useful at least, if not particularly new or exciting.

The shouts and class mechanic on the other hand seem really lacking – especially in pvp/wvw but also in pve.

In exchange for blasts you’ll get fields. Which means you will be much more reliant on your team.

Azure.8670:

I’m laughing a little because im thinking of launch. No remember when everyone thought eles were horrendous and unplayable etc etkittenil daphoenix and his cleric dagger build came along.

I’m not saying tempest is a god send or isn’t but let’s see how it actually plays before anything else

He only popularized this build set, it was used in pvp for some time.

Besides, it doesn’t take a genius to notice that overload mechanics with their long channel times are rupt baits.

Though I wonder what happens when you self cancel overload. Full cooldown like with ether renewal? If so, this mechanic is pretty much kitten.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah I knew it would be shouts, I predicted shouts and warhorn long before the reveal because the first article about elite specs in April said “at least one profession will be getting a full set of 6 shouts”. And I was right, based on that one sentence

Did tempest got a full set?

Rebound! – As the only arcane skill available to the tempest, this shout affects all allies around you and causes their next ability to have a 25% reduced recharge.

What does it even mean? It has two types or what?

It’s ironic because when warhorn was datamined (instead of sword) some people were relieved they won’t have to play close range spec because it’s no longer a sword wielding character.

Looks like close range spec, just like I speculated based on the datamined singularity.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah, but still, something like range and numbers could easily be tweaked before release, I mean look at when they changed the range on necro locust swarm or ranger shortbow?

Yeah its a theory, but I don’t see how the singularity is indicative of the weapon skills. You make a case with evidence that doesn’t necessarily relate. It could be, or it couldn’t be, but we have no real connection between weapon skills and the singularity to suggest either way.

We all need to calm down and reserve final judgement until after the livestream. Although to be fair, the QQ is pretty pointless. Look at all the negative dragonhunter feedback, that far eclipses the tempest feedback so far. Yeah, maybe they’ll make some small tweaks before release but they’re not going to completely change the weapon type, and make new skills and traits after they’ve already made them. so therefore, the complaints on this forum, won’t matter much in the longrun, besides letting them know you want a sword next time.

If you designed something with 180 range it’s almost certain it’s going to be something like a pbaoe or a small cone. Changing numbers isn’t trivial in that case.

nearlight.3064:

@Azel, what you fail to realize is that the Elementalist is such a good profession in every game mode that its not severely deficient in anything. It doesn’t have a major weakness in what it can do unlike most of the other classes. It can already do everything important now, so the warhorn will proabably be completely outside the box, and may not use the pattern of previous specs of giving something new the base class was weak in.

Ele has cleave, they have AoE, they have healing, they have damage, they have pretty much everything. So I bet the warhorn may be similar to current things they already have, but they’ll do it in a new and unique way, such as with the cascading AoE idea.

Of course ele has weakness, its innate survivability. That’s why eles in pvp are on full defensive mode.

Starfleck.8392:

I’m excited for more storms! hehe

Inb4 no storms with warhorn.

nearlight.3064:

Your reasoning also flabbergasts me. Forget about the lore and focus on the middle of the video where he talks about the ways in which the ele is strong and how warhorn could support that.

I mean his idea for a maelstrom spell.. whats not totally awesome and useful about that?

What reasoning?

Wards, symbols and marks are weapons skills.

FrownyClown.8402:

Right now ele lacks utilities that provide team support. I don’t expect warhorn to be a dps weapon since the other 3 classes that use them are support, giving boons cleansing conditions dazing. I expect probably 2 new blast finishers. I’d love to have a field on every attunement. Ice field, fire field, static field. Hopefully its 900 range and not 600 otherwise it would be a struggle to find its use in wvw. For the utilties I predict group support. The heal with probably suck knowing anet.

Necro also lacked team support utilities…

Aren’t we arguing for the same result? That warhorn is likely to be the close range weapon?

nearlight.3064:

I can’t see any logical reasoning to support that theory either. The weapon skills and the new mechanics may have synergy, but range isn’t really enough to tell if they have synergy or not, especially when we have 0 info on weapon skills for the warhorn. You’re literally talking out of your kitten , just so you’re aware.

We don’t know anything about the weapon. We clearly can’t take datamined skills as truth, after all, what about those datamined sword skills you all believed in?

At least my theory has some basis on the singularity mechanic, unlike other wishful thinkers. We also know that anet likes to “innovate” with HoT and since warhorns are mid-long range supportive weapons I cannot expect the same with the tempest warhorn.

Datamined singularity wasn’t some kind of placeholder and it’s relatively new one. Too close to the release to be remade into something else.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I fail to see how that is a problem. Ever hear of crossbow shield?

Real life examples are always the most logical options in a video game…

nearlight.3064:

The vocal minority has spoken, and Woodenpotatoes has responded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR7OE0h85go

Please watch this video, and then if you still have any logical ways to argue against the warhorn, then you will truly be as stubborn as an ox.

Your reasoning flabbergasts me. Besides, this lore guy isn’t an alpha and omega.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I doubt it would be a close ranged weapon. Dagger is mid range and scepter is long range. Having a close range offhand without a close range mainhand wouldnt make any sense.

Recently datamined singularity has 180 range. I can’t see any logical reasoning to not have this new offhand supplementing close range play style.

Taldren.7523:

Probably because …
1. Ele have a main hand problem.
2. Sword is longer range than dagger … so was hoping for a bit more range than dagger without going to sucktastic scepter.
3. 8 new skills vs 12.

Dagger is used as a “focus”, ele doesn’t stab anyone with it. Sword, on the other hand could have been the only real non-conjured up melee weapon.

Anyway, warhorn will be a close range weapon. :^)

nearlight.3064:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR7OE0h85go

I’m tired of arguing against people so I’mma just let woodenpotatoes do it in a clear and nonbiased way to get you all to realize why you’re wrong.

Right, that settles everything.

Scepter is a mid/long range weapon, warhorn will be likely a close range weapon. Do the math.

I’m expecting close range weapon, unlike the rest of warhorns, to supplement close range of tempest mechanic.Maybe it will have some damage component but it might lack blast finishers (other offhands have 2 of those) which in turn might ultimately make this new weapon a forgotten tale.

In PvE.

Neko.9021:

Finally someone says what I’ve been thinking. It’s true. Ele has the reverse problem of Rangers. Ele is a powerful class viable in all 3 game modes at the top tier (a big part of sPvP comps, run in multiples in PvE speedclear, and a staple in WvW GvG), and yet Eles remain constantly pessimistic and feel like they’re doing badly. Heck, lately, there’s a thread debating whether or not the Ele is in a “good place now” (spoiler: it’s the best class in the game overall given its high tier in all 3 game modes, so yes, it is in a good place). It’s absolutely crazy. Ele is extremely powerful but the common Ele seems to be under the delusion that ANet hates them or something.

PvE-wise, current strongest ele playstyle is kinda… well dull. Dagger/focus was a very compelling playstyle but was nerfed in the previous spec patch. I’m rather unconvinced warhorn will revitalize that playstyle if the datamined singularity is real.

Drayos.8759:

Obviously the WH will be a Offensive weapon, prolly holding Massive damaging Nukes from range allowing us to have Long and Short ranged capability in one set up giving u exactly what u have asked for now 2 years.

Since we have a ranged hammer, a melee staff, etc, our warhorn will be definitely close range. It’s only logical that if tempest mechanic (singularity) has 180 range then warhorn needs to supplement that. There’s literally no reason to have a ranged capability if your mechanics don’t support it.

Because tempest will be a close range spec (check singularity range, it’s 180) we might as well get a melee weapon. I bet there will be a large whine wave when those who would like ranged gameplay will find out tempest is all about close range unlike a typical warhorn.

It would be ironic.

Treetoptrickster.4205:

Could you elaborate a bit more on your points? I’m not really understanding where your concern lies and what you think the warhorn has to be. From what I gather you’re saying that the staff already does so much and so well that the warhorn won’t be used due to the staff simply being better at what the warhorn tries to achieve. Are you basically saying that the warhorn has to be stronger than everything other than staff to be seen as
good enough to be used over staff?

PvE-wise, pretty much. Since right now there is so significant difference between staff and dagger mh and the fact that both focus and offhand dagger are relatively strong enough, warhorn has to be stronger than focus/off-dagger and to make the dagger mainhand stronger than staff.

To give you some numbers, before spec patch dagger mh was slightly worse than staff. With that patch it lost about 30% of its damage potential while staff build became even stronger.

In other words, to have decent warhorn builds you’ll have to get this:

(warhorn > focus > dagger oh) && (dagger mh + warhorn >= staff)

which is probably unlikely.

If so my response is that the staff relies on targeted aoe, is slow, and lacks very much mobility or flat out burst. It’s very versatile in role like every ele weapon, but not so much in how it plays. It has its weaknesses where you’d rather pick other options. I think that warhorn will be another one of those options that you’d pick because it’s right for the job but not for others like the staff. In order to be successful it just has to be unique, strong, and cool enough at what it does to see play, not better at what other weapons do than they are.

That’s why only staff builds are used in pve by any serious groups? Staff builds are theoretically close range builds, your mobility is burning retreat + fgs and the burst isn’t that crucial, PvE is all about sustained damage potential.

Atoss.1056:

I can’t understand why ppl complain when they haven’t even seen the skill set yet. Not to mention why would you want another close range dagger-like weapon… Warhorn seems interesting.

Why would you want another close range dagger-like offhand or another ranged focus-like offhand?

If something is worse by even 0,01% it’s branded as suboptimal. And suboptimal means a kick in an instanced activity.

Turrets.

Knighthonor.4061:

What is skill 4 summoned a storm and skill 5 moved it around like Revenant Tablet?

That could be cool actually.

Sounds awesome but what about having 8 skills when in reality it would be 1,5?

Inb4 8 skills that have the same animation.