Guild Wars 2

morrolan.9608:

What makes you right and those of us who dislike it wrong?

He just said it.

Kidel.2057:

Because Eles are spoiled.

Attack the posters instead of arguments, very mature and productive.

It’s basically a free ticket to a cabaret.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

AoE stab is better than AoE stunbreak? That statement demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the game. These two mechanics are entirely different in their purpose.

Stability is pre-emptive and protective. Stunbreaking is reactive. To make a comparison to more traditional support roles, Stability is Aegis while Stunbreaking is Healing. Both have their unique uses, and both are crucial in cc protection. In fact, most builds can’t effectively survive in PvP without having access to at least one stunbreak.

Similarly, Berserker’s Stance may defend a Warrior from incoming conditions, but it’s often a poor substitute for strong condition removal, especially in longer fights. But it’s predictive rather than reactive and thus serves a different subrole under the “anti-condition” umbrella.

Stability, as a preemptive measure is limited by the player’s ability to predict, whereas stunbreaks are limited by a player’s ability to react. A clean prediction or a particularly powerful stability application can protect a player and their team from cc, but a swift stunbreak can do the same – and stunbreaks cannot be countered by boon removal.

But the thing about the baseline Elementalist is that it has very little ability to support teammates with either. It has a very weak stability-sharing trait in the Earth line (the line that is the weakest line to begin with), and that’s pretty much it.

Tempest, though it needs work even here, does make the Elementalist one of only three AoE stun-breakers in the game. The Guardian has to take a Virtues Grandmaster and blow Virtue of Courage to do so. The Revenant excels at AoE stun-breaking and AoE stab. The Tempest is, if nothing else, a pretty decent AoE stunbreaker with fantastic aura share.

It’s like we’re playing a different game. Proactive mechanics in this game are superior to reactive, that’s why you have crowds of people complaining about the low efficiency of healers.

To reiterate over, aura traits are spread over five different spec lines, let that sink in.

Mahuyo.3079:

no sword was taken out of the game, it is not longer found in the datamined files

Taken out of the release branch.

KreatE.7612:

I’m guessing 3 months. 3 months and tempest will be your favorite class and we’ll be best friends <3<3<3.

You’ll regret all these posts and you’ll want to buy cookies for arenanet. It may not look like it now, but you’ll get there. 3 months.

Saving this post.

gaspara.4079:

I find it hilarious that a fair number of the posts in this thread are complaining that Tempest did nothing to improve d/d or staff ele or eles in PvE.

So the elite spec didn’t improve 3 places where the ele has been top of the charts for 2 years?

Now this definitely did not fix a good bit of the issues with the lite spec but expecting tempest to totally replace d/d and staff in all game types is just a joke.

Tempest doesn’t replace ele in any of the game modes and is considered a joke.

Captain Unusual.9163:

So, I’m seeing a lot of complaints that the Tempest doesn’t add a new role for the Elementalist, but what roles exist that they can’t already do? I’m not crying “ele op”, I legitimately don’t know.

E.g. ele has no viable condition build nor melee burst (which sword could grant).

But check tempest changes based on the feedback, they haven’t touched a single trait and that horrible elite, not even a 20% cooldown reduction for shouts. It’s a spit on a face.

When I first read dragonhunter changes I noticed traps trait giving now 20% cooldown reduction. Wasn’t disappointed when I couldn’t see shouts trait update here.

Without a rework to some of the traits it doesn’t matter how much you buff warhorn and overloads since you are required to grab those horrible traits. They should be a priority issue.

That’s it? Not a single horrible trait touched?

Leo G.4501:

Calling people out accomplishes nothing. If all I did was call out people on their mistakes in my line of work, I’d have no time to actually accomplish anything. One can highlight someone’s mistakes (that’s what criticism is), but if that’s all you can manage, you should back down and let the creative minds form a solution.

The very design of tempest is one’s dev mistake. It’s really hard not to point that when one is faced with such a results of many iterations.

According to internal ele forum poll, the best element of tempest is the new healing skill. That tells a lot…

Leo G.4501:

Then what’s the point of the non-elite spec?

I’ll play the card you folks like to use.

Won’t we get more elite specs in the future? It will be all about a choice of that one elite spec and 2 core specs.

Argol Vazin.3061:

You seem to misunderstand
Just to clarify for you. there is no “base spec” what your thinking of is “Profession” specs are the trait lines in a profession. So comparing specs with each other is talking about within the profession. the actual term for the tempest is “Elite specialization”

It’s pointless, believe me.

A completely new specialisation line suffers from the old trait system? Should I even respond to that?

Adrian Guardian.9480:

I left the brawler/support discussion to others because it’s not a role I’m looking for (D/D already has it…). Mid-line support is what I’d like. Staff+overloads+shouts is mid-line support/nuking unlike normal staff which is back-line (dungeons don’t count). I wish scepter+warhorn would fill that role too, but the problem lies with scepter.

sidenote: scerevisiae’s stormlike moving overloads is a cool idea, no idea if it’d be better or worse than currrent mechanic, could be fun, I like water globe on warhorn.

How do you use overloads at mid range?

ham.8209:

then maybe this will help you get the points more easy . since your not getting a very clear point at all . and maybe you should try playing gw1 as well too . it would give you a better educated understanding maybe http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Boss

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:Bosses_by_species

Couldn’t agreed more, this is quite literally the most insightful self-remark I’ve read today.

Torolan.5816:

So if I play good as a Ranger or Necro, I am not welcome into the party.
If I change on my Mesmer or Ele and then bring a so-so performance with it because of a lack of practice, that do neither hinder nor help people in the group very much, I can join.

You´re right. Not elitist at all and absolutely reasonable, probably even justifying the time you wait for a suitable member.^^

I’ve never said it’s reasonable but it is the reality an average pugger has to face. On the record, I don’t pug and I definitely don’t exclude my friends based on their profession of choice.

Fox.3469:

After wich their official twitter confirmed it. Seriously when a company known for saying “when it’s ready” commits for release this year, you can count on release this year

Being committed in IT slang means they are on a track to deliver a product within the acceptable timeframe. You cannot count on lack of any unforeseen accidents. If, for example, beta feedback had been extremely negative, I’m pretty confident the release window would have been moved.

Misguided.5139:

Based on…?

Most are focused on supportive aspect which isn’t needed in the current content.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes, most of us tend to not assume ArenaNet is lying with every single statement they make.

Being committed only states their intent. It only means anet wishes HoT be released in 2015.

Diovid.9506:

Repeat after me: They will be released when Anet is ready to release them.

I’m confident that both tempest and dragonhunter were ready to be released. xD

Torolan.5816:

???
How is that not elitism? That´s basically like ousting the middlefield players from a soccer club because they neither defend or are out to make goals, that being the respective jobs of defenders and attackers.

It’s because players are not excluded based on their qualities but based on their profession which can be easily changed. Switch to e.g. ele and you are no longer excluded yet your intrinsic qualities as a player have not changed.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

The damage rotation I was using during beta (I kind of had to imagine that the numbers were good enough…. for overload fire they are) was 5s in fire -> overload fire -> 5s in air -> overload air -> use water and/or earth -> back to fire. It’s a slow (25-30s) rotation, which makes it a different playstyle. It’s about being able getting the same kind of result by playing differently imo, not about in-combat choices like the revanant has.

What were you doing 5s in fire attunement?

I have to concur, gw2 with every passing day becomes more and more unsafe zone.

That’s not elitism but professions exclusion. Change the title to more appropriate.

It’s correct but why minor master and grandmaster are so unimaginative. They look like they were designed 1 hour before the stream. Merge them and design a new minor. This alone shows how much thoughts they put into tempest or rather how much thoughts they put into its last failed iteration. It’s mind boggling how anyone would consider that a ready product.

Azel.4786:

In saying this, I would add that if the real idea is really to keep as an OH weapon, the choice of paring it with Dagger is terrible, it should pair with Scepter.

Indeed but then it would have been even worse.

Jski.6180:

Then move on… you seem to given up and its not getting a new core effect at this point in the game your simply waiting your time. I simply disagree with your point of view.

Then I’ll wait my time.

Malchior.5732:

And I paid $50 for this expac, so I’m gonna complain and complain until something gets done because this is my main class and right now I feel completely shafted. If I just sit around and say nothing then I’m accepting garbage as my elite spec.

Can’t blame us for being assertive, can he?

Malchior.5732:

At this point you must be agreeing that Overloads are a waste, ha!

Circular reasoning, my favourite.

Jski.6180:

Tempest cant utilise his mechanic (overloads) without an access to atuments which he doesn’t get on its own.

I’m saying “A can’t work” and you respond with “But B doesn’t work anyway”. Even examples were not enough. :^)

Jski.6180:

You do not like the core effects of tempest and its wepon. I think they are workable and the numbers will changes over time to make them work better. Your going to be saying this till your “blue in the faces” but your not going to get a main hand wepon nor are you going to get a new F1-F5 set GET OVER IT.

Chill mate, I’m perfectly aware Karl can juggle mostly numbers, unfortunately. Despite that, I find no reason to be perfectly happy with that design failure and still voice my concerns. Seeing this video doesn’t inspire confidence in tempest or that it will be commonly used outside the circle of people called phiw (which you may be a part of).

Jski.6180:

No your talking about base things that tempest core that are bad i am not saying its dose enofe support or what its aim is but it dose more then what an ele can and its core effects are workable.

Can you rephrase it?

Jski.6180:

Non of the new spec can stand on there own they are still very defined by there base spec.

What your saying is true tempest cant overlode with out being an ele becuse tempest is getting atuments from the ele spec lol.

I’m wasting my breath here…

For the last time, tempest cannot utilise his mechanic (overloads) without an access to stability which he doesn’t get on its own.

Can chronomancer use f5 without using any base skill or trait from other lines?
Can dragonhunter use f1-f3?
Can reaper use his new shroud skills?

Yes, they can. Can tempest use an overload successfully without getting stability in any challenging environment like PvP or high level fractals? No.

I’m trying to treat you seriously but spending so much time to explain the same thing doesn’t fill me with hope for any further discussion.

Jski.6180:

Just becuse its on a long cd (like most of ele skills) dose not make it any less fight defining and game play defining. It may make it more defining in how you play becuse of the longer cd means stronger effects. A d/d ele plays different from a d/f ele a s/d ele plays different from a s/f ele and the same is ture for the WH version. Do you even play ele?

Stronger effects like lightning orb?

And to answer your last question, you’re probably the only person on this entire subforum who still believes tempest is okay. A large portion of people who were asking the rest to see tempest in action is now claiming it needs a lot of changes. Asking me if I even play an ele while having that in mind sounds a bit amusing, perhaps even comical.

Jski.6180:

AoE arcain shield even LF to a point (old chrn bomb ideal but with overlodes.) Still a profoundly bad point to make (if the class dose not get any thing new even if it has old skills that cover what you need its a weak class).

I’m not sure why are you clinging to the base profession’s skills. I’ve said that tempest cannot utilise its new mechanic on its own and you just basically admitted it. Finally, thank you.

Jski.6180:

Tempest still gets 8 new “wepon skills” and 4 more just because they are tempest skills. An off hand wepon for the ele class is on the same level as most main hand weapons for other classes.

They talked about why in-fact both of these classes do not have it yet.

An offhand for an ele is definitely not on the same level as main hand weapons for other classes. Ele has increased cooldowns, especially on offhands, e.g. single target kd for 2s on 50s cooldown.

Like I said, both chronomancer and tempest got offhands but their profession mechanics weren’t replaced, only expanded. That’s the only official explanation of anet why some specs are stuck with offhands as horrible as warhorn.

Jski.6180:

Are you suggesting that a spec is only the new skills it brings? Because a full shout reaper is not good a full trap DH is not good maybe a full well cron could work but your still way better off using mez skill. Over all its got to be one of the most silly argument to be made.

It’s silly because you misunderstood it. Tempest can’t hold on its own because it has absolutely 0 close range defense which it needs in order to successfully overload its attunements. DH with traps or reaper or shouts might not be optimal but they are viable and are able to utilise their mechanics to their fullest. Tempest cannot because it doesn’t allow to complete overloads on its own. It gives us new mechanic which needs the base profession support for it to be utilised properly. That’s a kitten up in a design on an extreme scale.

Azure.8670:

I’m so tired of the tempest hate I’m dying to know the changes

Then you are in for a long ride. :^)

nearlight.3064:

Hahaha well it looks like the rumor I heard (from a streamer that was at WTS) that the reason ele hasn’t been nerfed/balanced is because the ele balance dev is on vacation, is actually true!

More like permanently on vacations.

Kidel.2057:

you can spec into water for full support and you heal conditions with applied regen.
Do do a similar thing on Herald you need Ventari (lol)

You do realise speccing into water is the same as speccing into salvation and picking up ventari, don’t you?

Legends on their own, without corresponding specs are pretty much idiotic thing to pick. I cannot imagine picking 3 specialisations and only 1 legend that would be amongst those specialisations. That would be akin to picking up e.g. greatsword trait and not using it.

Basically, your arguments have no merit yet you continually try to force your baseless opinion that somehow tempest is already strong when the general opinion is that it’s the worst elite spec.

If you don’t like your dragonhunter, you can notice the pattern that both it and tempest are pretty much a step back and both of them were designed mostly by one guy.

Kidel.2057:

Herald has no condi cleanse AT ALL, ele can aoe heal conditions while sleeping, as guardian.

Tempest has only one condition removal and that is an overload which means it’s kitten.

Popular word it is these days. People see racism everywhere.

To sadden OP, this isn’t rasism, it’s animosity and hostility due to the past. 100 years ago, when the first world war was declared, was it due to the difference in ethnicity or due to political reasons?

Malchior.5732:

That might be fine if it actually had good support and if half the Overloads weren’t designed to deal mostly just damage.

You’re also assuming the Tempest can’t do both. Chronomancer can. Why not this class? Why is it relegated to pure support? The kitten STORMCALLING TEMPEST. An unstoppable, destructive force of nature! And all it does is weakly heal allies?
The theme just screams DPS, but it doesn’t do that and barely supports to boot.

That’s because tempest went over many, many iterations and sadly Karl overshot it

Jski.6180:

You still have the chose to use it that IS the main point a reaper and DH cant chose to use there old F1-F5 skills in combat a tempest can.

Maybe because both dragonhunter and reaper got main hand weapons and chronomancer and tempest only offhands?

I see also one pattern – both dragonhunter and tempest still don’t have published any changes based on feedback, both are evaluated as bad implementations and both were designed by the the same person.

Jski.6180:

Tempest has up to 6 with 3 passive and 3 utility skills.

Then looks like this spec can’t hold on his own.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Same way as you stun break with Rite of the Great Dwarf: you cast the skill while the rest of your skills are disabled, and when it finishes its stun break makes you able to use the rest of your skills.

Rite of the Great Dwarf is a stunbreaker, warhorn skills, when traited, stun break allies, not yourself.

Jski.6180:

Well ya its not made to be self support its made for pt support it may also hit a true 5 ppl and not just 4 + your self. Tempest has a number of self stun brakes to combo with added “free” stun brakes for your pt. You will stun brake your pt and you will stun brake ppl on your side with out you knowing in wvw or bigger then 5 man pts.

Tempest has 2 stun breakers and one of them isn’t controllable. If you, as a tempest, are positioned in the front line, how are you expecting to stun breaks other people if you yourself might be stunned too frequently?

Jski.6180:

Yet they are not ture melee ranges and you will not see a pure ranged dmg necro build be used for reapers due to the changes in f1-f5.

But you will see tempest play both melee ranges and long ranges and mid ranges support dps and tankly as they build for becuse the ele dose not give up game play to be a tempest.

They’re not melee range skills but they promote to be in close to mid range (e.g. increased damage on life blast).

Does it really matter if tempest gives up his mechanics? Because if the new mechanics have too much risk associated with them with low rewards, then why would you use it? If sticking to the old guns is optimal, why would you ever exchange them for new ones?