I am unable to send mail to a friend. However, he is able to send mail to me. I’ve sent 3 mails so far.
1. Sent through account ID. Has content: 10 gossamer scraps, 6 platinum doubloon, 1 orichalcum ingot, 1 ectoplasm.
2. Sent through account ID. Subject Test
3. Sent through character name. Subject Test 2
Please let me know if additional information is needed.
Thank you,
TJL
First wave and second wave are simple. Just fight normally.
Third wave is a bunch of rooted casters. If you are doing well, just go in melee and deal with them quickly. If you need time to recouperate, go to range and just move left right. Their fireballs are slow enough that it’s easily avoidable.
When you are fighting the third wave, keep an eye on the counter at all times. When it hits 2 (4th wave), that’s when you need to look for the smoke lord. This is where you burn all your abilities. Do not get into a long fight against this group. If you clear here in good shape, then the rest is easy.
The entire defend comes down to getting to group 4 in good shape to spike them down.
… Who in their right mind would turn down an engineer?
I’ve played ranger and thief to 80 so far. I use both in melee almost all the time. I spec mine more well-rounded, with sufficient toughness and vit while maintaining a respectable level of firepower. I then compensate for survivability through skills like parry, evasion, weakness, and of course dodging. This is the safe way to play melee, and it is perfectly viable.
Regarding don’t bringing pure glass cannon to a dungeon, I would tend to agree on most cases. However, it is doable if you are good. My friend runs a pure glass cannon mesmer using sword primarily and he has no problem suviving. It all comes down to utilizing your resources correctly more than anything else.
Do not sacrifice firepower for survivability in your skill setup. You need to have sufficient attribute for survivability (don’t all out berserker/rampager), and make sure your weapon/utility setups is geared for firepower instead of survivability. Either fit into a dps or control role. Do not go support role. If you do it this way, you should be fine.
Unfortunately, I have yet to do the bomb room with my thief. The above suggestion is based on my experiences as a ranger. I will be doing it soon with thief, but the general idea is the same; you have to stand your ground while sacrificing the least amount of damage output. This means anything that causes large dps drops (evasion-centric, support) is not that great here. While the fight is long (200 seconds), treat it as individual small skirmishes, and do not spec for a long fight. Instead, spec for shorter fights (more burst) and go from there.
The group I run with has ran this path 3 times so far since easy days. Each time, we got better at it. Yesterday, we were able to fight to 100%. 2-3 downed, 0 death.
One more sample:
Twilight Arbor- Up path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (slightly under)
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 22.XX Silver (character 2, lvl 73)
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
1 minutes between clear and start
Twilgiht Arbor- Forward-up path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (may have been under)
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 22.XX Silver (character 2, lv73)
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start.
Citadel of Flames- Path 1- Clear time: Under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver (switched to character 1, lvl80)
Member 2- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Unknown
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start.
Citadel of Flames- Path 2- Clear time: Well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver (character 1, lvl80)
Member 2- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Unknown
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start.
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 18.XX Silver (Switched to character 2, lvl74)
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
0 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Ghost Eater- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 18.XX Silver (character 2, lvl75)
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Collosus Rumbus- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 18.XX Silver (character 2, lvl75)
Member 2- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 5- Unknown.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 6.XX Silver (Character 2, lv75)
Member 2- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 3- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 4- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 5- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Ghost Eater- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 6.XX Silver (Character 2, lv76)
Member 2- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 3- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 4- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 5- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
As far as I can tell, everything seems to be working properly. First repeat penalty is 1/3 of original amount, and speed clear penalty is 3/4 of original amount.
I would like to disagree with bomb planting being too difficult. The group I run with did path two yesterday, and we were able to clear that room in one try. This is the first time that we’ve done this path (minus 1 person, who pug the path within last week using suicide train method) since the easy days. I believe that this room is extremely doable and does not require suicide train. This was our first attempt and we were able to get to 73-74% comfortably. It wasn’t until the second smoke lord spawned that we got a couple of people downed. We lost our dps timing so we had to resort to kiting the last 25%. This is because we didn’t notice the bomb he dropped in time. If we were more aware and did control better, i’m confident we would have been able to take them further and fight all the way to the finish.
Regarding the exact difficulty, here would be my feedback. I believe that this particular part is doable. However, how that is achieved will be dependent on equipment/setup/familiarity. I don’t think a pug will be able to do this room through the ‘fight till the end’ means. I also think not having exotics available will make this fairly difficult. That being said, I believe that even without exotics or good coordination, it is very easy to fight to 70%+ and then just kite if you feel your dps is slipping.
It would come down to what dev considers as the correct difficulty for this part. I personally feel that the current standard is just fine; you can fight to the finish if you are prepared for it, but you can just fight into kite if your team is less than ideal. It kind of adds some tension too, which is always nice. Time based conditions should always be made to be near the line of make or break. It’s much more fun that way.
We were able to clear the path within 30 minutes. We did have one wipe, and it was at the escort Magg across lava, primarily because we got careless and let an elite imp go to town on us.
TJL
The only thing you need to do with dogs is to make someone waste their initial leap attack. Then it’s just compress and drop all your skills on them. The husks are a non-threat because they do no damage and the worms you are in no hurry to kill so you may as well use all your elites on the dogs. They should be back in time to spike down the champion vine from 50%.
LOL @ rickets! Dude go troll other ppl ok! Do I see exo armors?
Ohh yeah, I do, dont I? ;-)These dungeons are so you can get them (exo gears) in the first place. Secondly: You can clearly see that even with the exo gears you down a whole lot. Gear yourself in some weaker gears and try singing the same tune buddy.
Or do you agree that gears does matter when discussing how YOU cleared it?@ryokoalways:
You say 2 things which kinda gives me the idea you wear a good exo set atm.
Not every1 has them (or had the idea to exploit some tokens when it was still possible).
Most ppl dont even want non FULL exo geared players in CoF even before the update.
Its nearly impossible without exo gears, especially for elementist (and other light armor users also I’ve heard).
Ppl just rage quit at the bombing part while others are trying their best.And uhh just for the record man.
Exo gears would be pointless if it didn’t make the game (lots or even a bit) easier.
So its only logic that It would ultimately becomes a snooz.
Effective lvl (stat based) can also be used in a dungeon 2 nerf if you want a challenge.
Or a better idea: just take your gears off and go in starters gear.
Problem easily solved for you, not for those who can’t
compleet it trying to get higher up.Back to the topic: Even with a group that was half exo and rares it was impossible without using the so called “ROLES” (tank/healer/etc which this game shouldn’t be based on as Anet said before launch and still when promoting their “Fine work” after) to even get near 90%.
Defense/health/DPS isn’t nearly high enough without using combo attack/boons.
Maybe it was the fail party is have been on.
But I doubt it if outta 20 tries all failed, being over run by mobs which kill ya in 3~4 hits.
Just to clarify, we have 3 that were more or less in full exotics and 2 had basically no exotics.
I do not agree that full exotics would make the difference of being able to clear any given path. That has always been the argument for a particular path or component being too difficult, and it is simply not true. People have complained about AC not being doable without proper gear: I personally ran that dungeon at 35 in 35 green with 0 issues, and majority of the people are experiencing the same thing because they now understand the proper approach to a dungeon. People have complained about various things in Twilight Arbor; I’ve cleared that in 50 green, and similarly people now have little to no problem against blossoms, vines, knights, etc.
Just because the first half a dozen tries seems to be cutting it close does not mean it’s difficult. As long there is progress made, then the “difficulty” is acceptable and will become easier through practice. When I first did Essense collection in AC, I thought it was extremely hard. Now the group I run with consistenly finishes the last burrow at 86%. I expect the same will happen with bomb room, as it is just a harder variation of essense collection.
Additionally, if you noted my assessment of our run, it has nothing to do with roles. It has everything to do with maximizing damage with proper control compression and limit the need of support by using dodge effectively so it does not hinder our dps. We lost our dps precisely because we failed at control, leading to players down and being unable to keep up with spawn killing. This has nothing to do with composition. It has everything to do with playing better.
My thief right now is lv72. It is currently in full 65 green armor, 65 green jewelry, and 65 yellow weapons. I should be 75 withint a day or two, and I expect to do just fine in that setup. Exotic gear has benefits for sure, but it’s not the difference between being able or unable to clear a path. Exotic gear is only a necessity for under 25-30 minute clears. It is not a necessity to simply complete any given path.
The target was the Up-path, first spider boss (cone poison AoE, and AoE shotgun). This was close to the end of the fight, the boss was under 25% health. I have the following trait spec
17 in deadly arts (the first trait line, may have name wrong): Gain might when using venom.
30 in Acrobatics: Gain might when rolling, Gain 2 initiated every once in awhile, Gain initiated on weapon swap.
10 in Trickery: Gain fury, swiftness, might on steal
Main set: Sword/pistol
Alt set: Pistol Dagger
Utilities: Poison venom, Skale venom, role for initiative, dagger storm
Basically, I managed to break 10k total damage with one pistol whip. The damage were 8 instance of 1100-1200 damage, and one instance of 1700 damage. I had poison and scale venom both active when i did the pistol whip. I cannot recall how many stacks of might I had. I had green lv65 armor, green lv65 jewelry and yellow lv65 weapons (although i doubt the attribute numbers are the caues of this).
My party consisted of Guardian, Thief, Mesmer, Necromancer, and Engineer, so there is plenty of might and vulnerability. However, the damage should still have not been that high. My damage output for all other pistol whip is about 2k-2.5k, breaking 3k very rarely (I have good attack for my level, but my crit chance is very low).
I have not been able to reproduce this bug. I will attempt some more.
Thank you,
TJL
I think there may be a bug with blind/evasion on some thf abilities right now. I’ve had pistol whip evasion not work, and black powder also occasionally not working even when the blind condition is on the enemy. They are extremely inconsistent and fairly rare, but still very annoying when they happen.
Edited incorrect info. Thanks Painking.
You need 2 people that can take on 3 imps easily solo. You need one person that can deal with tar ele (should be easy). Finally, you need two people that can work well together to clear the larger group on the west torches. I can imagine this being fairly difficult without voice communication though.
The group I run with just did this for the first time since the easy days. We got past this part in one try. We were able to kill everything up till about 73-74%, then we had a couple of mistakes and downs, which killed our dps timing. We then kited for the last 25% without issue.
This is basically a slightly harder version of Tsark in Catacombs. I don’ treally think that you can make this any easier without making it a snooze-fest. I’m pretty confident if we had dodged a little better and got a better compression, we could have killed everything to 100%. We were not prepared for that second smoke lord and didn’t see the bomb.
TJL
We’ve had this happen once several weeks back. But we haven’t had it happen again since. We thought the trigger was because someone was dead when the boss went down, but from screens here it doesn’t seem to be the case.
Similarly, we have had this happen on Howling King path twice, but the last time was a couple weeks back. We have not been able to reproduce either instance.
Post 10/01 Patch data, start-time 8:00PM CST:
Prepatch
Twilight Arbor- Up path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (slightly under)
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 21.XX Silver (character 2, lvl 70)
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
1 minutes between clear and start
Twilgiht Arbor- Forward-up path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (slightly over)
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 21.XX Silver (character 2, lv70)
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Patch announcement came half-way into dungeon. All runs from now are post-patch.
15 minutes between clear and start.
Citadel of Flames- Path 1- Clear time: ~30 minutes (cannot recall over or under)
Member 1- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver (switched to character 1, lvl80)
Member 2- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Last clear a long time ago
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start.
Citadel of Flames- Path 2- Clear time: Under 30 minutes
Member 1- Last clear a long time ago
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Last clear a long time ago
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Last clear a long time ago
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared within the past week
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start.
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
0 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Ghost Eater- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 24 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Second clear of day
Reward: 23 Tokens, 12.XX Silver (Switched to character 2, lv71)
Member 2- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 3- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 4- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
Member 5- Second clear of day
Reward: 15 Tokens, 8 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Collosus Rumbus- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within 48 hours (character 2, lvl71)
Reward: 45 Tokens, 18.XX Silver (character 2, lvl71)
Member 2- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within 48 hours
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 5- Unknown.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Overall, it seems like the system is working correctly. The only odd number out is for player one on repeat of Howling King path. Maybe the code isn’t adjusting correctly for character switching. Additionally, it seems like diminishing return based on “speed” clear kicked in for the last run (or it could have kicked in on the repeat run, which may also have been a cause for the odd/incorrect numbers, assuming the 15 on the repeat is a combination of speed run diminishing return and repeat diminishing return).
TJL
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
As someone above already said, you do not need rare/exotic to clear dungeons. Masterwork will be fine. Save money to supplement lv80 exotics, don’t bother with rare/exotic pre-80 in my opinion. They will be needed once you start trying to clear with max efficiency, but they aren’t a necessity for a simple clear.
As for attribute distribution of your equipment, I would say that unless you have a static group, try to go evenly distributed so that you can more easily adjust to each party you form. Also somewhat related, when choosing your traits, while it’s important to grab the traits that you want, don’t neglect the attribute bonuses provided as well. They make a huge bonus. You may want to forgo a trait in the precision line if you are lacking in vit/tough, for instance.
Always go into a dungeon with every type of weapon available for your profession. You don’t want to get caught needing a particular weapon and not have it available. Again, masterwork will be sufficient.
I think the primary problem is that there are no rewards associated with mobs. The recent changes also made chests fairly inconsequential (outside of the occasional core/lodestone). There really is just no incentive at the moment to kill anything. While it’s fine to argue that “this is not how you play the dungeon”, in practice that’s just not going to be enough.
I think the solution that can be attempted is mere to add “flags” to certain mobs. For instance, if you really want the players to fight the first spider in AC, then mark it with a flag that it would drop 5 tokens. The tokens won’t drop when you kill the spider boss, but will mark the final reward as having 5 tokens (the same can be applied to money afterwards). This will make mob skipping less desirable as you wouldn’t get the full 60 tokens and 26 silvers unless you kill the specific mobs for the flags. You can even apply this idea to elite mobs, and just randomly mark (randomly generated each instance) a couple of elite mobs. This way players will have to clear all mobs to make sure they achieve their awards, or they could skip a couple and hope they got lucky hitting the right ones. The only thing I concern of this method is to make sure the mobs marked are only on the primary path of the particular path chosen. Don’t mark it on some elite that’s way off in the middle of nowhere.
Basically, unless rewards are associated with killing trash mobs, or that progression is tied with killing trash mobs, there will be an effort at avoiding them, regardless of what is considered the “correct” way to play a dungeon.
Edit: Just to clarify, I would rather that the dungeons be made more difficult and a check point system than the flag for loot system described above. But the former would be take much more time to implement than the latter. We will see how it plays out.
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
Continuation of testing. Member 1, 2, 3, 5 are the same as previous post.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/page/9#post273128
(8:45PM CST start time)
Citadel of Flames- Path 3- Clear time: 1-1.5 hours
Member 1- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- First time for this path
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start.
Twilight Arbor- Forward-forward path- Clear time: ~35 minutes
Member 1- Has not done path for a week
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Has not done path for a week
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Has not done path for particular character
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Has never done path.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Has never done path.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within last 2 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Cleared path within last 3 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Ghost Eater- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within last 2 days
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 6 (Replace member 4)- Unknown, but this is first dungeon of the day.
Reward: 6 Tokens, 2.6 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Collosus Rumbus- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 24 hours prior
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 24 hours prior
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within last 4 days
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 5- Cleared path about 24 hours prior
Reward: 60 Tokens, 24 Silver
Member 6- Unknown.
Reward: 6 Tokens, 2.6 Silver
Similarly, the code is still kicking in after first sub-30 minute run. However, as you can see, member 5 is still getting rewarded in full since it is first clear for the path of the day. I’m hoping that his is the one that’s working as intended because I believe that to be the ideal approach. Lastly, member 6 got screwed over very hard, despite the 2 dungeons being his only two of the day.
TJL
I think I have done Forward-up 2-3 times since patch. I have not encountered this issue.
My group did the same dungeon runs again today. The group make up is different besides member 1 and 2.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/page/6#post261309
(7:30PM CST start time)
Twilight Arbor- Up Path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (Slightly over)
Member 1- Cleared path about 23 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 23 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Unknown
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Has not done Twilight arbor for a long time (only one time prior. Up route).
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Has never done Twilight Arbor.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start.
Twilight Arbor- Forward-up path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (Slightly over)
Member 1- Has not done path for 23 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Has not done path for 23 hours
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Unknown.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Has never done path.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Has never done path.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 23 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 23 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within last 3 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Unknown.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Unknown.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Ghost Eater- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 23 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 23 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within last 3 days
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 4- Unknown.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 5- Unknown
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Collosus Rumbus- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path within past week
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path within last week
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path within last week
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 4- Unknown
Reward: 30 Tokens, 13 Silver
Member 5- Unknown
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
It seems that the code is currently kicking most members into DR after first run under 30 minutes (instead of multiple). However, this time we have one member that is not penalized in that manner. The question is which side is the correct value.
TJL
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
Twilight Arbor- Up Path- Clear time: ~35 minutes
Member 1- Has not done path for at least 4 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Has not done path for at least 4 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Has not done path for at least 4 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Has never done Twilight Arbor.
Reward: 30 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Has never done Twilight Arbor.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start.
Twilight Arbor- Forward-up path- Clear time: ~30 minutes (most likely over)
Member 1- Has not done path for at least 4 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Has not done path for at least 4 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Has not done path for at least 4 days.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Has never done path.
Reward: 30 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 5- Has never done path.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
10 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Howling King- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path about 24 hours prior. Cleared Collosus Rumbus about 4 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
Member 4- Unsure about last clear of path. Cleared Collosus Rumbus about 4 hours prior.
Reward: 15 Tokens, 6.5 Silver
Member 6 (replaced 5)- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 60 Tokens, 26 Silver
5 minutes between clear and start
Catacomb- Ghost Eater- Clear time: well under 30 minutes
Member 1- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 2- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 3- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 6- Cleared path about 24 hours prior.
Reward: 45 Tokens, 19.5 Silver
Member 7 (replaced 4)- Unsure about last clear.
Reward: Forgot to check
Thank you,
TJL
These two bugs were not introduced with the current patch. They have been there forever. The exact causes are not clear (i’ve encountered each one once) without being able to recreate it. We think the final boss reward not coming is when the Howling King is killed on an uneven surface, but it’s hard to back up. The other, no idea.
Having rewards for certain parts of the dungeon before the end is important as an incentive to keep newer people motivated. Small amount of rewards are still fairly major for dungeon initiates as a sense of accomplishment. I am ok with the bulk of the reward coming at the end (say, 80-20 split or something), but I think having some token and monetary reward (just a couple of silver) for legendary, or even champion bosses, will go a long way.
I am also still completely against punishing players for “speed” clearing. Again, I understand that the purpose of the system is for anti-exploit. I will request my group to run a couple of dungeons to the best of our abilities tonight to test the thresholds set by the current system. Hopefully we can get a recording as well. If the thresholds are to stay.
That said, I would still hope another solution is put in place against what ANet deems as speed run of the dungeons. More doors opened via mob clear to prevent area skipping, more reward triggers that are then pooled to be given at the end to promote engagement, making the dungeon harder, etc, are all better solution than a minimum time threshold in my opinion.
Thank you,
TJL
The party break-up bug seems to be back in some format. This is the bug that causes your members to disappear from party display/map when they are too far apart. This bug also has the effect of making only the dungeon initator having ability to view the cutscene.
I will post here to avoid making a new thread since a dev did somewhat comment about dungeon reward changes.
If a reward increase is implemented, I would prefer for the dungeon reward to be increased based on performance instead of a flat increase. A ranking system based on various parameters such as clear speed (a side plug; I still strongly suggest against a speed clear threshold limitation), number of down/death, event/dungeon specific parameters (for instance, number of blossoms triggered in TA or something), etc would be more dynamic.
The concern here is that it would be hard to quantify performance in this game. Whereas there are some minor action game mechanisms in GW2, it’s still nowhere like DMC or other games of that genre, so scoring a run would need to be observed differently. Not to mention a lot of work is needed to properly specify the ranking thresholds for each path.
This is definitely not something that will be doable in the short-term, but it’s something that I hope, if possible, can be implemented eventually.
how can you pull one mob out of a group standing next to each other?
Pull all, wait for leash, immobilize one.
Basically, grow a pair of balls, rework your build, and instead of just trying to clear the dungeon, find legitimate ways to clear it more effectively instead of exploits/work-arounds.
I say it again, since you seem to fail to understand or are not able to read. I have no problem with it, i know how to clear a dungeon effectively.
I apologize. I meant to direct that at the “others” that run dungeons with you. And if you know how to clear it effectively, then teach them how to do the same. My group did all the dungeons first, learned, and now are teaching others in the dungeon guild how to run each specific dungeon. It’s a learning process, and it’s understandable if not everyone can pick up on what to do quickly. However, once you do, it’s very easy to pass down, enlarge your dungeon player pool, and get additional players that can carry their own weight.
And if you and my group can do it, then it’s obviously possible. If they choose not to play dungeons correctly (and I have to emphasize, it does not require trinity. I’ve cleared dungeons without ele or guardian. Took an additional 5 minutes, if that’s a concern for you), then it’s not a game design fallacy. It’s player incompetence.
I find it facinating that you are confident we are using a trinity team. And yes, in majority of the situations, I can survive multiple LT.s hitting me just fine (fyi, I’m the “tank” of the group, if that’s how you want to term it). Outside of the occasional hound type (icebrood, nightmare) and nightmare “hammer time” knights (see a pattern? perpetual knockdown and getting face meshed into the ground), evasion, blind, parry, and dodge buys more than enough time to take out LT. mobs.
Additionally, most groups that avoid close combat are also the ones that are complaining about dungeons taking too long, only way to clear is to zerg, and the “absurd” repair bill. For some reason, it doesn’t occur to many that zerging, while will work eventually, is akin to repeatedly bashing your head into a wall. It is a part of the learning process. The first time I did TA forward>forward, it took 2 hours and 30s or so in repair bill. Now, it takes 35-40 minutes, and there are only 2 locations where wipe is even a concern (5 hounds, 3 knights). Likewise, we had issues with HotW because at first we had issues with the massive HP pool/mob density in the dungeon. Then we grew a pair, took more chances and engaged 4-5 of them at once instead of worrying about playing it safe, we were able to push our time to ~30 min or under.
Basically, grow a pair of balls, rework your build, and instead of just trying to clear the dungeon, find legitimate ways to clear it more effectively instead of exploits/work-arounds.
I would have to disagree with being forced into range combat as well. I’m also a ranger, and I run a melee ranger in the dungeons. Even when I switch to shortbow against bosses, I’m still fairly close since my build provides me with the most ways to negate damage out of anyone, so I genrally want the boss to be hitting me. Take a look at your trait/attribute spread through gear and try some other combination than berserker/rampager. An 80 ranger can easily achieve 2600 armor rating and close to 20k health without losing much attack.
Regarding pulling, there are only 2 instances where I felt necessary for that in all my dungeon runs
-TA Forward Forward, triple knights. Just too much for us to handle.
-To a lesser extent, HotW path 3, seer, 2 mauler, 3 claymores. And this one we haven’t tried to do single mob pull yet because immob deals with claymores pretty well. We just haven’t been able to clear this part without a death.
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
From what I read, you are already doing things the right way. Now you just need to do them better.
-Fight the worms at melee range. This will limit the real estate they can cover since they can’t point blank as effectively. Additionally, you can trigger the slam attack rather than the spit attack.
-If you are new to this, always clear the adds. After the 6 vines, every 25% of the boss vine’s HP will summon 1, and at 25% he will summon 2. Make sure you fight them up close. You will need someone to clear blossoms, but whatever you do, do not go to range. Your chance of winning is much higher close, even if you instincts are telling you to create space.
-Make sure you utilize blossoms for rally. In this fight you should not require a teammate to pick you up most of the time. One shot a blossom for a rally so you can keep good damage coming onto the vines.
The first couple of times we did this dungeon, we also had a lot of issues with the vines (Forward>Forward cost me 30s+ in repairs the first time). Then we grew a pair, went into melee against them, and that was that. Once you get good, you can just burst down the vine from 50%. All it really takes is practice. We can currently clear TA in 28-30 minutes, route pending, with 0 deaths.
Regarding being forced down a particular playing style, again, I agree the issue is there, but again, the cause is not because GS burst damage is subpar. The cause is because pet’s are a necessity for any respectable ranger build right now. They simply are too important to be neglected, and a F2 only build on pet is simply not viable. If you only buff GS, then the complaint would be people will feel that they are being forced into using GS. Currently, there is an established role for each weapon:
GS- Defensive/tank, viable against crowds, melee
Sword- Superior 1v1 capabilities, dps, melee
Longbow- CC and long range burst, slightly lackluster in PvE at the moment, amazing weapon in siege battles in WvW
Shortbow- best dps, decent burst (quickness), good cc capabilities, purely single target
Axe- Range AoE option, good for strafing, less damage than gs but safer
axe(offhand)- melee dps support, reflection
dagger- 1v1 purposes
warhorn- Team oriented boon support
torch- team oriented condition damage support
The roles assigned between ranger weaponry is reasonably balanced with little overlap. You have to maintain these roles when a change is implemented. Otherwise you are not fixing the problem; you end up just patching it and then another problem arises. This is why a rebalance is needed, and not a independent buff to one weapon.
In practice, I would like to a build with shortbow+second weapon set of your choice face off against 2-3 vet risen + another half dozen regular risen and kill them in a reasonable amount of time. The tank ranger build with GS/dual axe or warhorn will not lose in a large PvE fight to the shortbow, especially since toughness and cond damage are down the same trait line. I deal more AoE damage, last longer in direct combat for more sustained damage and can sport dps pets without having to worry that they would die. In WvW, shortbow is worthless outside strike teams against supply camps. In sPvP, shortbow can shine because 1v1-2 is more common. Likewise in dungeons, shortbow is good against bosses since it’s a 5v1 fight (If i’m not asked to tank, i switch to shortbow). However, don’t mistaken single target dps as the only factor that matters in a fight. There are situations that shortbow is superior. Likewise, there are situations that GS is superior.
In comparison to other professions, the argument is the same: Warrior and thf dps weapon setup may have more damage, but it’s not always the optimal choice. Glass cannon has its places depending on the situation, and burst has its advantages as well as disadvantages. Having superior firepower does not equal being overall superior.
Apologies for long post.
The problem is that even with a stationary target, and your jaguar or lynx doing constant damage without having to chase, the total damage is still multitudes lower than that of the other professions, and while the greatsword has a block and a short daze, that really doesn’t make up for such a gigantic gap with other professions, who also have utility abilities by the way, it’s not like the greatsword utility is so much better.
Saying that the ranger is okay on its own is pointless, you have to compare it with the other professions. You can ooze your way to lvl80 with the greatsword I guess, but other professions just do it so much faster and easier. The shortbow build works and is much easier and faster, but I don’t want to be forced to play a build that I don’t enjoy at all, I derive no joy from using a shortbow, the skills are just not interesting enough for me. I greatly enjoy the greatsword, but all I can do with it is play downleveled content.
Please stop blowing things out of proportion; ranger+pet damage is not “multitudes” lower than war or thf, even against single target. Burst dps is not the only damage variation in the game, and being lower does not make it outrageously lower.
Additionally, regarding war and thf having good additional skills on their weapons, I disagree. In this argument, we will only be comparison one weapon from each profession (unless you want to compare a build, in which case a simple claim as war or thf dps is higher is completely void because now skill/traits, survivability, chasing ability, weapon swap, stat distribution, rune/sigil choice, etc will all come into play). Since your concern is damage output, we can select the highest dps weapon from war (gs) and thf (dagger/dagger).
war gs has auto attack with vulnerability, hundred blade (pure dmg), spin (engage ability. Shortened range make it not usable as an escape tool), sword throw (offensive ability), and a charge (engage, escape tool).
thf d/d has auto attack, heart seeker (offensive. Hop is good for movement, but not escape due to long start-up/recovery), blossom (offensive), dancing dagger (good offensive/defensive ability thanks to cripple), and cloak and dagger (good offensive, decent defensive ability with stealth)
I strongly disagree that warrior gs or thf d/d can match ranger gs in utility. Swoop can be used to engage or escape, parry can be used offensively to stop incoming burst damage or defensively to create distance to escape, and a daze/stun is absolutely essential in 1v1 to stop your opponent from various actions including healing. I don’t think I need to mention the auto evade on auto-3.
I would much prefer that the pet F2 ability cooldown just doesn’t get reset on a swap. It would make the reduction of F2 CD trait be useful as well.
Depends on how much you want to commit in chasing. Generally an immobilize is needed against stealth, and if they whip out infiltrator’s arrow, you are going to need warhorn+GS to fight that and their 25% speed signet.
Utilizing CC pets is also a good way so you don’t even give them a chance to escape (drake hound with immob, wolf with fear). And finally, if you really want him dead, entangle.
It’s not easy to kill a good thf. You almost have to give them a window of opportunity so they overcommit. Otherwise, you need a couple of CC, and you have to time it well, to be able to catch them and kill them. Thankfully, most thfs are glass cannon build, so as long you land a immob, and just start mashing auto attack, their stealth won’t save them. They would just reappear in downed state.
For what it’s worth, I play ranger and thf, so I know what real burst damage looks like. And just as an additional note, you really don’t sacrifice too much to go tank ranger. You get toughness and cond damage together, and you can still compensate for power via equipment (almost everything has power anyways, so that’s the easiest to adjust for). I’m not fully decked out, but I have 2650 def, 3k attack, and 20k hp. I can survive the best bursts a thf or warrior can offer, activate troll unguent, then hover around 25% HP with barbed skin.
That said, I’m not happy with the situation as well, but I don’t believe a straight buff is the answer. The primary issue is still with the pet mechanic. Balancing them out to have multitude of roles is why ranger damage had to suffer, since dps has to be one of the options. A ranger can also make a regular mob explode with ease with a simple swap into canine/feline for 2 seconds of quickness, no other abilities required. The problem is that pet damage is very unreliable outside of PvE, and you have to overly commit to CC for pet damage to be able to play a role in WvW (again, I refrain from talking about sPvP as I lack sufficient experience). This artificually creates a lack of damage against non-stationary targets. Even then, I still feel we are forced to take some beastmastery line at the moment due to overreliance on pet damage output. This causes a lot of problems outside of PvE.
I would have no problem with a GS buff, but I also want the game to be balanced. I strongly believe that the best way about this is to put the primary responsibility of damage back on the ranger instead of the pet (for all weapons. GS isn’t the only weapon shafted in damage multiplier). A direct buff with no downside is detrimental to balance. The GS is still a great weapon. Ability to do damage isn’t the only thing of importance in the game.
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
If you want damage back on GS, you are going to have to sacrifice something for it. There is no reason for the GS to get a straight up buff. Additionally, damage output isn’t everything. The only limitation here is that a power ranger build using GS, or to a lesser extent, longbow (like the GS, skill 3-5 of longbow are also really really good), is below par in direct damage. This is a result of Anet wanting pet to be of a significant part of ranger playstyle.
Just to clarify, I would much rather have more damage on the ranger than the pet since you don’t have precise controls for managing the pet. I am willing to make that trade-off. I also suggested that the auto evade of GS be removed and put on sword (sword would obviously need some changes for it to be feasible) to retain the damage output of the GS. However, the fact of the matter is, with their current design philosophy of placing much of the damage output on the pet, ranger weapon damage will suffer as a result. The odd one out right now is shortbow, which got a massive attack speed increase between BWE and release. It’s probably there to fix the lack of direct damage that people were complaining about (they reduced bleed duration so that cond damage remains roughly the same). The only downside of the shortbow is that it is purely single target.
Again, as much as I don’t like the fact that pet damage output a massive chunk of total ranger damage output, never forget that your build involves 2 units, not one. Building a ranger trait line is more complex than at first sight. You can’t just throw everything on to the ranger and neglect the pet and expect to perform up to par when compared to other professions, given how the ranger is designed right now.
Immobilize/slow him. That part only last 20% of the HP bar. He only does it once every 4-5 seconds. If you have some dps, that’s only 8-9 times you have to burst him. dodge 3-4 of the spins, take out the other spins with cc.
Ah, my apologies
He said tokens, so not story.
From the number of tokens, probably arah. That’s the only dungeon with a weird token count.
Hello,
I would like to address the other mechanism implemented in the recent update; the 30 minute threshold for diminishing return. I felt that it was necessary to make a separate post because the primary post turned into an incoherent mess, and anything worth reading is buried waist deep.
My group does dungeon runs for ~3 hours every night. We have people that work standard hours (8-5), so our time is limited and we have to be very efficient. Prior to the patch, we were able to squeeze in about 6-7 dungeons in a little over 3 hours. However, we ran into several issues during yesterday’s run.
Run 1- Honor of the Waves, Path 1- We got to the boss, and found that the end room is glitched (no floor, boss missing). We were unable to continue, and had trouble resetting the dungeon to run the path again to confirm the bug/try a different path. We move to Twilight Arbor.
Run 2- Twilight Arbor, Up- No issues with the dungeon. Cleared in ~30 minutes (basing timing on food buff), probably just under. Everyone got max reward except for one person, who got 19.5s (weird number). Just to clarify, none of us has completed a dungeon on that day (09/18).
Run 3- Twilight Arbor, Forward Up- No issues with the dungeon. Cleared in ~30 minute again, probably over this time as this route is just a bit longer with the mesmer boss (this path is definitely longer than the previous. I have no doubt about that). Everyone got diminished rewards (13s), and the person that got 19.5s last time, got 6s this time.
Run 4- Honor of the Waves, Path 1- After waiting 20 minutes because we are paranoid of the 30 minute threshold, we tried again to see if it’s a one time glitch. We got to boss, glitch again. No floor and no boss.
Run 5- Honor of the Waves, Path 3- We were able to reset the dungeon correctly by breaking pt, log off, log on alt, then log on main. Ran this dungeon in about 38-40 minutes. Everyone got full reward.
First of all, as the two parts of twilight arbor showed, we are being punished for being able to clear it in a respectable amount of time. I also think it’s safe to say that TA does not contain any exploit, and we are able to push for under 30 minute marks because we’ve done it enough to take high risk chances to clear faster. Unfortunately, we cleared too quickly, and received diminishing returns as a result. This also had an adverse effect in making us only able to clear 5 dungeons (we cleared 3, but were able to run through 5 paths) instead of the usual 7, due to having to either slow down or completely go afk to meet the threshold requirement. It is a major lose-lose for us at the moment.
Secondly, if the concern is having a fail-safe in place against future exploits, I believe 30 minutes is way too high. Clearing a dungeon in under 30 is not difficult once you analyze it and improve. We can clear at least 1-2 paths under 30 minutes for various dungeons, and there are two that we can push close to or under 25 minutes right now. If a threshold is to be implemented, it should be 20 minutes. I think it’s fairly safe to say if a dungeon is done under 20, it just needs to be harder or there is an exploit in play
If the threshold is (god forbid) here to stay, then I would request for a more clear description of how the penalty works.
-When does the timer start? Upon first person entering? Upon entire team entering? Upon first mob attacked, killed, etc? This could be clarified.
-If we clear dungeon 1 in under 30, are we punished for that dungeon, or for the next dungeon? I ask because we cleared TA Up in under 30, and was not punished, but was punished on the next one.
-I would like to see exact calculations for penalties implemented by both speed clearing and repeat clearing. This will help players plan out their dungeon run schedule. It is possible for us to just try to figure it out, but I don’t think it would hurt to have the exact rules presented to us.
Of course, ideally, I want to see this removed, and I hope it will be removed. I would think the devs would like to see the limit that their dungeon runs can be pushed, and add difficulty to it as the game matures. I strongly disagree with punishing players for being efficient with what they do. If devs feel that 30 minutes clear of a path is too fast, then please make it more difficult instead (and I hope it’s not a larger HP pool just to up the time to kill, or just more mobs for critical mass to force separation pulls). At the very least, a more difficult dungeon is something the player can overcome. We can’t overcome a penalty mechanism. We can only try to avoid it.
I would like to stress one last time: Time threshold in this manner is completely detrimental to the game.
Thank you,
TJL
I disagree. Whereas AC taught players how to maximize damage output by condensing enemies into a small area, and CM taught players to bring projectile reflection, TA is teaching players to have surrounding awareness. My group also was not fond of TA when we started. Now we can do up and forward up in about 30 minutes. It is also the first dungeon to actively encourage aggressive play. Try a bit more and it will become clockwork.
In my opinion, I vote personally for a removal of the 30 minute limit per run..since that in turn is a hinderance to better yourself to the point of doing efficient runs…unless it’s in the manner that some key paths aren’t supposed to be done in 30 minutes as minimum and are currently done due to mechanics/or the way they are.. I think more elaborating is needed but for that point, this is my two cents.
The first change is an acceptable fix, given the notoriety of constant farming runs…in turn would make people to branch out and do other runs. It should be that if people alternate for example. They do one path of the dungeon, then they do another path, and then after that they do the same path, there shouldn’t be any diminishing returns at all. If this is the case, then it is alright. I do recommend bumping up at least the first time of the day token count a bit higher though to make different path running more lucrative but since you are going to do a pass on dungeon rewards, i’m on hold on that.
I do suggest, perhaps adding karma aswell to the rewards aswell, tied with the one time reward for story, and after each run in explorable mode. Perhaps around 400-700ish per path run aswell. It does give more incentive to do dungeons which currently they do lack just a bit more.
I agree with both ideas. Although, I think a threshold would be fine. My suggestion would be 20 minutes, just based on the fact that outside CoF, I’ve not gotten a dungeon run to under 20 minutes. We’ve gotten close, but never under it. If you can go under it, an exploit is probably involved.
And I’m always for more karma.
TJL
Hello,
I was actually going to post a question regarding what you constitute as fast, but you have answered that in your post. However, I would like to address one point.
I think the 30 minutes limitation implemented as the threshold for speed run is too high. The group I run with can clear both TA Up and Forward up in roughly 30 minutes. If the change is working as intended, it would mean we will have to pace ourselves instead of just going all-out all the time, which is more fun for us that way. I can see why the diminishing return on repeating is implemented as you want variety, but I would strongly encourage re-evaluating the threshold time considered to be a fast run. TA wouldn’t be the only issue. We can clear AC in less than 30, maybe even 25 depending on route. We are getting close to or below 30 with various other dungeons as well
If possible, please reconsider the threshold.
Thank you,
TJL
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
You do not have to directly improve the GS damage output to increase the total damage output. That’s why I said when traits come in, and builds are discussed, it gets much more complicated.
For instance, for PvE/Dungeon I run
0/20/30/0/20
and use Lynx and River. I sacrifice very little damage since I go Condi/tank, staying in combat much longer due to having 2600 armor, and having respectable condi at 550 and still sporting a modest 40% crit rate for crit related procs. I use rune of warrior for -1 second weapon swap to have fury 50% of the time to help that out further. 50% swiftness is also a nice bonus, as is the additional vit + some power. I am equally useful solo as well as in a party. My equipment is based on the following split
35% soldier
35% carrion
30% berzerker
Giving me a respectable 2950~ attack rating and 18500 health.
So my ranger does the tanking with good condi, I have flexibility with my pet selection as I don’t have to worry about them dying, they are not tanking so I just pet swap every chance I get for quickness and F2 for more bursts, and I can swap-in various weapons without missing a beat because 20 skirmish and 30 wilderness covers all CD reductions for ranger (axe main doesn’t have one, but not a big issue). The only thing I’m considering is 10 less in beast for 30 in skirmish for moment of clarity and run a longbow/gs spiker. Less versatile but definitely more exciting.
For WvW, all I have to do is swap my major traits around, and run dual canine with muddy terrain and spike trap to get the same effect (i tank, pet does dmg, all the CC in the world so they can’t kite the pet).
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
If trait comes in, then it would come to builds, and not just weapons. In which case, the discussion will become more complicated, and everyone would need to rewrite their arguments. I tried to limit to just the weapon comparison because then it’s a controlled discussion.
And I agree on the removal of jump. Although the likelihood of it happen is quite low, considering it’s been asked for since BWE.
I believe the opposite of the majority opinion in the thread, in that the greatsword is a weak weapon. I agree that the firepower is lackluster compared to other weapons (and I don’t share the same sentiment that it’s that much worse), but it’s defensive capabilities and mobility is so great that it easily compensates for the subpar damage output.
My concern is more that they chose to put bulk of the damage output onto the pet rather than the ranger. This is the cause for the GS nerf (and to a lesser extent, some other weapons). That said, the GS is still a very universally good weapon weapon (PvE, dungeon, and WvW. Haven’t done enough PvP to comment).
Wrong.
The survivability of a one handed sword with no offhand equipped is leagues greater than the greatsword. You get 3 evades on 2 skills before you even factor in what you take as your offhand(for instance axe has a very long channel skill that deflects ranged attacks).
As for mobility, yah swoop is nice but that’s it. I wouldn’t recommend a weapon cause it has a skill that let’s you get close to an opponent as it’s only talking point. I’d rather limp across a football field with a 20 second cripple debuff on me with a one handed sword 20 levels under my toon’s level then have to use a greatsword to kill the same mob that’s 2 feet away…why? Cause it’ll still take longer with the greatsword, a lot longer. If a feather pillow would teleport me instantly to an opponent I still wouldn’t use it to fight off a pack of wolverines.
Sword evasion abilities are longer lasting but that’s also why I don’t understand why you think it’s damage output, when actively used for survival purposes, doesn’t suffer. I’ve been 80 since the 27th, and having done a lot of WvW with all types of weapon set up, I can vouch that the damage output of the sword suffers greatly when you are fighting 3-4 people at once, whereas the gs is largely uneffected. Just because on paper the sword has evasive ability with better damge ratings does not make that so in practice. I would like to see a sword/offhand user fight off 3-4 people at once without having to sacrifice damage because you can’t use the second and third of 1 without getting cced into death.
Regarding using the second as a two part escape tool, that tiny window of turning and start of leap is still too large when people just drop a load of cc onto you at once. From personal experience, using the skill that way basically means you are sacrificing twice the amount of skill start-up to go a shorter distance. If you think I’m just timing it wrong, I can assure you that mine, while not the best, is not much worse than optimal turn-timing. There isn’t room for that split second when you have a group breathing down your neck. The gs also has faster activation. The only thing sword wins here is faster landing recovery.
Regarding gs damage output, without taking into account actual ingame factors, I would like to ask what numbers you are getting. I’m very confused by the overdramatization of lack of damage on the weapon. The sword does more auto attack damage, but its abilities don’t provide any type of spike damage. Whereas sword puts its damage on 1, and survivability on the rest, the GS (first 3 skills) does the opposite.
Now, outside the vacuum; In PvE, the consistent damage output of sword 1 is good, but in WvW, or even dungeon, bursts are necessary because you need opportunities to attack, and sword can only achieve burst with quickness, whereas GS does not need it. Please do not counter with burst of no damage is still no damage. GS swoop and maul does more damage than you give them credit for.
And finally, the GS has a stun and a parry. Offensive CC is much better at dictating a fight than evasion. Dagger (survivability), torch (damage), and warhorn (mobility) all are very good offhand, but in a direct confrontation they are far less threatening than a parry/blowback and stun.
Just another note: I do not doubt that damage output in a vacuum the sword has higher dps.
I doubt that sword can achieve better survivability and maintaining higher dps. It would be a 1 or the other proposition.
I doubt sword 2 has the same effectiveness as gs 3. Especially when you are chasing people/crossing the map to a location quickly. For escaping it’s a decent replacement. For all other instances it is woefully lacking due to less range and longer activation.
I doubt that gs damage is as bad as you are making it out to be.
A good way to test this is to go to catacombs and 1v1 Lt. Kholer and see how long you last. It’s a good test of actual dps instead of on paper, and good practice for resource management. A tough test would be the knight “hammer time” champion on forward>forward in TA, where there is very little tell to base your actions off.
I believe the opposite of the majority opinion in the thread, in that the greatsword is a weak weapon. I agree that the firepower is lackluster compared to other weapons (and I don’t share the same sentiment that it’s that much worse), but it’s defensive capabilities and mobility is so great that it easily compensates for the subpar damage output.
My concern is more that they chose to put bulk of the damage output onto the pet rather than the ranger. This is the cause for the GS nerf (and to a lesser extent, some other weapons). That said, the GS is still a very universally good weapon weapon (PvE, dungeon, and WvW. Haven’t done enough PvP to comment).
Depends on what you want to do.
Heal/tank
cond dmg/tank
support
dps
Those are the 4 that i use right now, with cond dmg/tank being the most common, with the pet providing the direct damage.
0/20/30/0/20
pet crit 30%
axe dmg 10%
survival cd -20%
sword, gs cd – 20%
condition removal
3 stack of might on swap
pet family specific trait
GS Dual Axe
or
sword/dagger axe/torch
addtionally my equipment is 35% soldier based, 35% carrion based, and 30% berserker based.
I run warrior runes for the -1 second on weapon swap, in addition to the vit and power stat gain.
I’m sure there are various other builds out there too. You have to identify what you want to do before any real suggestions can be made.
(edited by ryokoalways.3450)
Marksman/skirmish builds can yield the pretty high damage output, especially if you utilize moment of clarity.
I think there may be an issue with the approach if you feel that you are suppose to die that quickly. If you are going full glass cannon, I highly suggest you reconsider.
Ranger is not constraint to just spike damage or dot. It depends on how they are built. Shortbow damage output will just be higher as the fight drags on due to good base firing speed and lack of range constraint. Longbow just isn’t as good in small skirmishes, but they have places elsewhere.
There isn’t an easy mode high damage build out there for ranger though. For best damage output, you also have to be able to use the pet well.
If you want, try marksman/skirmish with moment of clarity and longbow/gs. That is the most basic spike damage build with respectable cc.