Guild Wars 2

Wolfe.3097:

dude the 2 seconds from my haste proc is sometimes enough for my autoattack to kill someone, or take nearly half there hp in the least.

quickness is seriously OP

and just cuz you dont like fighting vs stealth doesnt mean stealth is unbalanced, it has some bugs, but once those are fixed it will be fine.

Well, I’m just pointing out what in my opinion makes Thief so OP and these two things are damage and stealth. Get real, Stealth is the most effective defensive mechanic in the game and make it great also when not traited is a non-sense in terms of balancing.

Well, I don’t know which autoattack do you have, but usually 2 seconds of quickness aren’t really enough to kill someone without the huge damage the Thief now has. For example, if Thief with Pistol Whip would make 3-4k damage, there is no way to kill someone with just a quickness combo and, also, will let the thieves to practice more to get a kill instead of just do 3 spamming.

Wolfe.3097:

however ive seen elementalists do one spell for over 10k before. and that spell i bet doesnt require being in stealth and behind the target in melee range :P

Where and when did you see that? If you mean in the BWE, I trust you.

@Deistik: already tried. You can’t put out an item from the bank if it is soulbound to another character

I was so dumb at the start of the game that I’ve trashed that piece of art and now I’m missing it.
Is there any way to get it back? Is there any mask that looks like that in the game?

Raijinn.9065:

Starting to see a lot more rangers and necros lately.

Agree about Rangers, quickness shortbow builds are growing up popular, but Necros? I’m always the only one who play Necro in most the matches, I don’t know where you see them :/

Kryank.8069:

I think he may have a good point though sorrow it’s not the skill damage that is as much a problem as the stacking effects, boons haste etc. that creates more of a problem than the damage the skill would do without it. Hell I’ve been pistol whipped from 3/4 health and stomped on before I could really react due to haste, if there was a limit on what boons, skills you could stack it may improve the situation. Just my options ofc.

In my opinion, the quickness is contingent, because if there wasn’t such an high damage output on a thief, probably quickness isn’t worth it. I mean, quickness skills have almost high cooldown and side effects, if you wouldn’t be able to kill someone in 2 skills, probably starting a quickness chain isn’t the best choice.
If the thief get a damage nerf, a skilled player will always carry a quickness skill on his bar, but he will use that skill not to make a 2 skill combo to burst down a target in half a second, but will use that skill more wisely and chose when is the right time to use that skill, since, at least regarding thief, if after you used quickness the target isn’t dead, you will probably facing troubles.

Also, I think that the debuff after going out of stealth should lasts longer and stealth mechanic should be more linked to the Shadow Arts traitline, to avoid the thieves that compensate the very low defenses with tons of stealth skills, making them invulnerable also when not specced into Shadow Arts.

What exactly is the Team Paradigm I’m hearing everywhere? I mean, I’ve never heard about them before Guild Wars 2, but it looks like people are claiming them as the best team out there before the game was actually released…

Why is to be so proud about being a part of that Team?

Everyone here loves Necromancers… But the concept.
That’s because everyone is complaining about the class being subpar and it is clear and shiny in front of the eyes of everyone who has played any other profession for more than 30 minutes.

Wolfe.3097:

50%…lol

the problem is damage stacking, not hte class itself, look at the tooltip for our damage skills, other classes have skills that hit just as hard, when you stack all that power/crit and gruop buffs/self buffs, your gonna get stupid damage. this means either damage needs nerfed ACROSS THE BOARD for all classes, or we need to adjust damage stacking.

You have no idea of the situation if you say that every profession can hit as hard as a thief do.
Try the Necromancer or the Elementalist, spec them with full crits/power, join a game and see how stupid the damage is. Consider also the time you take to make that damage.

Rika.7249:

Oh you! You sly dog, getting all personal!

You’re a donkey too, a stupid ignorant donkey <3

I get these stats from something incredible> Playing the game.
Have you done this yet?

Where did you get YOUR stat about smashing the trebuchet? From your huge ego? Hue hue hue!

You’re also totally not reading all the other arguments, such as the fact that you’re effectively ALWAYS outmanning the enemy team if they decide to use the trebuchet.

But I wouldn’t try to teach you that, it’s like trying to explain maths to a donkey!

Please, come at me with your arguments! And keep up the personal stuff, I’m digging your passive aggressive tone! <3

I’m sure you played all the matches in Guild Wars 2 and you sure are a pro gamer! If there is someone who can spit stats, that’s you! A random guy in the official Guild Wars 2 forum!

The guy on the trebuchet is just a man less in the enemy team! He’s watching his team losing from his trebuchet while figuring out how that big thing works and, if he discovers how it works, it doesn’t matter because you, a real gamer, can dodge all the boulders and all the enemy’s hits while capping points! Please, teach me to be as good as you are, I want to dodge as you dodge and win as you win!

I’m leaving now, I’ve better things to do than arguing with a stranger on a forum. I’m sure someone else will point out all the BS you said better than me and my bad english.

Rika.7249:

Kiirin.3418:

So you’re saying dodge the treb shots rather than dodging out of the way of the enemy you’re fighting. So dying to the other player is better than treb?

Who needs to use the dodging ability? Tell me, are the shots stealthed and do you have the sound turned off?

Good thing boulders can’t capture points.

Have you already realized that most the time you are getting shot by trebuchet is when you are actually fighting with another player, who probably has immobilizations, stuns, daze and so on?

Have you realized that if the trebuchet can be destroyed there is a reason behind it and if a single profession can easily cancel that action there is a true problem?

Have you realized that if most the players destroy the trebuchet is because it is a true threat and not a bubble shooting gun? Are you better than every player or you are just trying to defend a situation which is unreal by saying unreal things?

Rika.7249:

It’s fairly balanced, seeing as the weapon is largely useless.
The cannon in Capricorn is better and far more dangerous.

There’s a reason the treb is so easy to repair.

True!
Who cares if something is unbalanced if there is something that is way more unbalanced? Your argument makes perfect sense!
But don’t forget to say that the balancing is decent.

Rika.7249:

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Yes. I win practically every time by pressing “V” when I see a big flaming boulder coming towards me. Eventually, he’ll stop firing because he’s wasting his time hitting nothing.

Wow, good thing you have unlimited endurance and when you’re capping you are always alone so you can pay all your attention to evade a big cannonball coming on your head.
What you’re saying is just out of this world.

Rika.7249:

Yeah, and you cannot destroy the trebuchet, if you do not send players to destroy it, only to find it repaired a second later. You can’t win either, because you’re spending so much time on doing so, when you could… be capturing points :O!

And that, guys, is what people claim to be a well balanced game!

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Duckzor.4327:

Crossfire + quickness = OP?

Sir, you obviously don’t play a ranger.

This is the only way rangers can even have a small chance against other classes. Rofl. Take it away and rangers are easily far below the worst pvp class in the game.

I can say, as a Necro, I’ve tried all possible builds to maximize the condition damage and I felt that it is the only effective way to play the Necro (power builds are in common sense unviable) and I thought they were good at it. Than I played a Ranger with Shortbow and I understood how stupid I was.
Press 1, strafe all around the target, stack 20+ bleeds in 2-3 seconds, see the target dying.

Rika.7249:

The balance is decent.
Everyone makes it out to be horrible.

They do not know what balance is.

That’s the truth.

That’s not the truth. As I said before, ArenaNet took a lot of time to fully balance Guild Wars 1 and, trust me, they have nerfed some skills that were way less effective that what is going around this meta.
It’s normal that when the game is out for a short period of time, PvP is totally unbalanced. ArenaNet knows it and I’m sure they’ll make a big balancing patch in the next weeks to fix all the kitten that is PvP now.

Really, where do you guys took your concept of balance? From some free korean pay2win MMO? From WoW?

Guys, get real.
It is impossible that such a complex game is balanced after 1 month from the official release, also considering that only few changes were made in this period.

People who are saying “It’s ok, everything is balanced” just have no clue of what balance really is.

Shukran.4851:

how come i talked oly about weapon sets differences and you put some utility in the conversation?
and as i wrote, maybe in a bad english , sorry, because it seems to be not read or forgotten, what if i have to use something else during the fight instead of 2,2,2,2,2 or 3,3,3,3,3?maybe i want to blind the warrior i have in front because assuming we both start the combo his HB will kill me in a sec? maybe i have to use twice infiltrator’s because opponent dodged or because i was in a bad position after landing my first infiltrator’s and PW?
how come all these bad manners are so common in this forum? helping other players who are not flaming nor whining is so wrong?sad

I don’t think I had bad manners, if I had, I’m sorry.
The point is the thief doesn’t need to use other skills to kill someone and then vanish in stealth. 2 and 3 are enough. Boring? Yes, but effective.

Shukran.4851:

assuming you can switch weapons, every single skill has his own cd, as i explained, so you can cycle 10 skills. thief can’t. do you want me to spam HS or PW?ok, then?what if i have to use something else during combat and i finish my initiative? i cannot use my skills anymore. it means that if u have a long cd power skill, u use it and then u have another 9 skills available(7 if ii don’t count autoattack). if thief uses a high initiative skill like black powder, CnD, #5 shortbow, we have about half initiative pool used, so we don’t have 7 skills available, but less and probably after another skill used, we will have only autoattack available.
it should be one answer at all the HS, PW haters.

Sure, you would be right if the most powerful skills of the Thief doesn’t costs 3-5 initiative, thief doesn’t regen 1 initiative point per one second and an half, there wasn’t skills like Roll for Initiative which recharges 6 initiative points, excluding all the traits the thief has to regain initiative, you can’t trait to have 15 base initiative and the most powerful thief skill (Backstab) costs initiative.
If you also consider that one single pool of initiative is more than enough to burst someone down in a bit more than a second and than vanishing in stealth, you will start to notice the picture of the thief’s opness.

I don’t think you have tried another profession seriously.

@buttski: They should ban people who talks bad in absolute without having a clue about what actually the situation is. People like you, for example.
Most people who are complaining about X class being overpowered are people who, after they have realized that dealing with X profession was always way harder than dealing with the others till the situation became frustrating, have tried out these professions and performed way better without having a minimum skill in that specific class and felt like the hundreds of hours they have spent on their main character to getting better was a total waste because the same or better results could be obtained in a quarter of the time.

I don’t want to let this become a sort of joke like “I was and adventurer like you”, but this post really deserve this:

Probably he was playing good because he was using Death Shroud properly.

Love, a Necromancer.

EDIT:

Asmodean.5820:

That said I wait for some death shroud jokes coming up /sits back and eats popcorn

God, you got me
Nice one.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

But as far as Null Field, it removes buffs from enemies and conditions from allies. It’s not exactly the same as turning them into their opposites.

You are right. It actually helps your allies also! And compared to Well of Corruption, it isn’t PBAoE, doesn’t convert just one boon per pulse for 5 seconds, but it actually strips all boons on enemys and all conditions on allies each time they enter the field (not per pulse) for even more time! (7 seconds).
So when you cast Well of Corruption, it has the time to convert just one-two conditions before the enemy realize you’ve casted a well and dodge out of it, while with Null Field, your enemy has no time to realize he is in a Null Field to save his boons, since they are already all stripped out.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Arcane Theivery is great, except it’s twitchy. You either use it to steal a whole bunch of boons from the enemy, or use it to get rid of conditions from yourself. It dosen’t always work either, and it’s rare that you’ll get the best of both worlds from it.

But you’re actually getting a benefit plus an offense. With corrupt boon you are getting a condition on you (Poison) plus only an offense. This makes Arcane Thievery more versatile than Corrupt Boons, of course.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Phantasmal Disenchanter isn’t worth the slot except for PvE raids.

I’ve seen that most of the builds on build databases have that skill as utility and I can imagine why. A bot who strips boons and removes conditions automatically and on 20 seconds cooldown? Hell, I want one on my Necro! I can give any of the crappy minion we have as payback!

Shukran.4851:

i would like to everyone, thief has only one initiative pool for 2 set of weapons, while every other class have single cd for every skill. so thief can spam less than every other profession. think about it.

You know that this makes no sense, right?

Visualize.4319:

Sprawl.3891:

They should have everyone’s personal pie chart of pvp matches played by class show up when you post.

IKR would shut this sorrow guy up, such a baddie troll.

Kryank.8069:

@ sorrow just lols !! All you have succeeded in is impressing everyone with your ability to claim success without backing it up with any sense on fact or cohesive argument I applaud you sir!!
You are indeed a winner!!

Just put him on ignore, I have already and reported for trolling thread, hes gone off topic and has started attacking other peoples posts. Guy needs to step away and learn to deal with his rage.

I don’t know if it is a troll attempt, irony, stupidity or something else, so I can’t answer what you’ve said.

By the way, for information purposes only, I’ve already posted my pie chart in another topic.

There is no main Necromancer here who doesn’t complain about their class. Just take a quick look at the Necro forum.

Now two are the possible cases:
1. Most of the Necromancer are bad players
2. The profession is broken.
I think the No. 2 is way more possible.

The main upside to start playing as a Necromancer is that when you reroll to another profession, you feel like playing in godmode and I bet you’ve already experienced this feeling.

Kryank.8069:

I don’t think the skill is OP but that’s not to say that you are wrong for thinking it is that’s why it’s subjective. We could argue all day about this but all I am saying is that the skill maybe OP to some people, so is 100b and pistol whip, and ranger pets, and bunker guardians the list goes on and on, I don’t want to get into an argument over this skill as we will never agree everyone is entitled to there opinion, but in my opinion a skill that can be cast once every 180 secs has a long stationary telegraphed animation and does no damage on its own and is sinlge target, and still allows movement and lasts 10 seconds and can be evaded / dodged can hardly be called game breaking in a 5v5 or 8v8 setting, frustrating yes but game breaking OP no. If you think it is, well that’s up 2 you.

You know that saying “it is subjective whether the skill is OP or not” and than saying “the skill isn’t OP” is a contraddiction?

Exactly, from which game you came from? I mean, what is your concept of balancing?

Again, to answer to what I said, I’m quoting myself because I don’t want to retype what I’ve already said:

how can you say Moa is a subjective matter if you don’t even know whether people who are not complaining about Moa are all Mesmers and you didn’t even played all the professions which in common sense aren’t overpowered?

What I’m saying could be an opinion if me and few other people agree with me, then the rest have different ideas. But when almost everyone who haven’t a mesmer as a main character are complaining about Moa Morph, it is enough for everyone to stop and think for a minute about THAT skill compared to the other and stop saying “it’s just an opinion, to me it’s fine”.
What about if there was an istant kill skill? What would you say if people complain about that skill? “Uh, to me it’s fine, you can dodge it. It’s your opinion”. Well, Moa Morph isn’t as far from that kind of skill as you would think and this isn’t an opinion because 10 seconds are more than enough to kill someone.

You probably missed those posts, because they give an answer to what you said.
Repeating your statement over and over doesn’t magically makes it well-founded; I would be very happy if you answer to what I’ve said without repeating the same sentence or the same concept in a different way.

R E F L H E X.8413:

You don’t understand what they have done here.

They don’t really want balanced in the same sense of guildwars one.

It’s because it is funner for these types of formats.

This is why when or if they make gvg, they need a buff you cannot see that takes all damage down by about 25% maybe more to get it down to guildwars 1’s level for that specific type of teamplay. And I mean all damage not just one class or two.

So you are saying that the game is balanced as it is now?
I really didn’t understand what you meant with that post, maybe because English isn’t my mother language.

Yoki.3904:

sorrow.2364:

Yoki.3904:

sorrow.2364:

Have you guys who are saying Necro is fine tried Mesmer?
Well, I was one who thought that Necro was fine at conditions, but, sadly, they aren’t as everyone is especting compared to Mesmers Thieves and Warriors.

My most used class is Mesmer , right behind it is Necro. I have tried all the other classes as well.

Maybe all I said is proved by the fact that your most used class is a Mesmer, as 80% of the players who want to play “Necro style”.

Well the only reason why my Mesmer is my most played is because its one of the first classes i tried, eventually got bored with it and that led me to Necros which I fine them vsing thieves, warriors etc just fine. True every now and then i have issues but I can still hold my own against others and do perfectly fine condition damage.

The point of OP and UP isn’t that one is unbeatable or one professions just can kill none. Of course, they can.
The point is that to be effective as a Necro (and it is a fact) you have to train way harder to get the same results you get as a Guardian/Thief/Mesmer in half the time.
Not to mention that Necro are only viable as condition spammers and weapons focused on power/high damage like Axe or MH Dagger are just useless.
I want to challange you to run with an Axe/Any and be competitive.

The Boz.2038:

There are no tricks of the trade on how and when to evade and shut down a necro or ele. None are required.

True.
The fact that you need special attention to beat some professions mean something is wrong with balancing. If you add this to the fact that in PvP Mesmers, Thieves and Guardians are overplayed, here you have the full picture of the PvP, where according to some player, the balance is perfect at launch.

So why in Guild Wars ArenaNet took 7 years to fully balance the game considering that the mechanics of that game were way simpler?

Yoki.3904:

sorrow.2364:

Have you guys who are saying Necro is fine tried Mesmer?
Well, I was one who thought that Necro was fine at conditions, but, sadly, they aren’t as everyone is especting compared to Mesmers Thieves and Warriors.

My most used class is Mesmer , right behind it is Necro. I have tried all the other classes as well.

Maybe all I said is proved by the fact that your most used class is a Mesmer, as 80% of the players who want to play “Necro style”.

Kryank.8069:

Lols sorrow u need a chill your point that I am arguing is that I am saying Moa bird being op is subjective, of course it is, it is not OP for everyone some people are happy to deal with it. Just because you think it’s op doesn’t mean everyone does, or are you the voice for the entire GW2 player base?? If so I bow down to your awesomeness, your quotes only prove what I said earlier, I entered the argument about people posting about a class without playing it as they did in my first post you quoted.

Just to help you out
‘Subjectivity, a subject’s personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view
Subjective experience, the subjective quality of conscious experience’

That is why I said it is subjective as that is you belief ! That is the only claim I made, just because someone doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t make them wrong.

Here we go! Quotes again!

I agree that moa maybe OP for some players to counter but that is a subjective issue and not an issue with the skill.

According to logic, negating one affermation is equivalent to affirm the opposite. So what you said is “this is subjective issue, the skill has no issues” which clearly means that to you, the skill is fine, not overpowered.

You said your opinion, which is fine! But claiming you didn’t makes no sense.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, I want to argue with you about the skill, an argument you joined, without you saying “I’m not in that argument” or “arguing with you is useless, I’m superior!”.

I’m making efforts to get better, of course, that’s why I didn’t rerolled Thief/Guardian/Mesmer/Warrior. But you can’t say it is just a L2P issue.

Learn to counter a profession which is overpowered is a challange for every good player, but this is far from negating they are overpowered.

You guys who are claiming that all this moaning in the forum is a L2P issue, you have to read the overpowered definition, which, guess what, isn’t the same as unbeatable.

Kryank.8069:

I will repeat what I said any times earlier it may be OP to some players, but that is not what started this you said that everyone who complains on the forums has played all the classes they complain about, I pointed out another thread where that is not the case, that is the only claim i have made i never said that Moa morph is not op to some people. you then carried on this self justification of a point or arguments i never made, do you argue with yourself in the mirror often lols.

You didn’t just do that, you entered in the topic and now you’re claiming you didn’t.

Let’s try to answer you by quoting my and your posts!

You shyly entering in the argument:

A necro who is trying to play a healing minion build and has played Spvp for 4 hours (those are his words) , and has stacked vitality and toughness is saying that he was owned by a Mesmer who was doing 5000 dps without any clones or illusions and who didn’t Moa Morph him, (it’s half way down the post after his rant about Mao Morph), when you and I know that this is purely a L2P issue, and untrue Sorry to call you on this but there are loads of posts by people who haven’t played other classes and are just venting because they haven’t got used to the game mechancs yet. Most competitive players I know can deal with any class in tpvp as you bring the person not the class, a skilled team will always shine.

You decided to entering in the argument:

Whether Mao bird is OP or not is completely subjective. And poxxia if you play Mesmer as a main you will know that in pvp the Moa morph is not nearly as effective as time warp. Yes it is a anti minion necro skill but it is well telegraphed by the animation and can only be cast once every 4 mins.

Let’s not get personal all I have done is prove things that people are saying that doesn’t make sense either because they are not true or just misinformed or just misunderstand what has happened, and all I have done is quote facts. I agree that moa maybe OP for some players to counter but that is a subjective issue and not an issue with the skill.

You always in the argument while saying you were not:

All I have done is point out people’s inaccuracies, Moa is subjective some people don’t find it a problem and some do that is what is meant by subjective. However certain facts are non disputable such as cast times animations and stats. If you remove emotion from the argument the facts still remain.

Me saying that there are few people who judge before trying. This post is antecedent to your first one.

Sure there are players who joined the chorus without playing that professions, but they are a minority and probably won’t answer your question so they are insignificant. Focusing on this minority when there are bunch of players that actually tried these professions before complaining is pointless.

And, finally, this is you saying you never entered the argument and you never said what you said:

I will repeat what I said any times earlier it may be OP to some players, but that is not what started this you said that everyone who complains on the forums has played all the classes they complain about, I pointed out another thread where that is not the case, that is the only claim i have made i never said that Moa morph is not op to some people. you then carried on this self justification of a point or arguments i never made, do you argue with yourself in the mirror often lols.

Have you guys who are saying Necro is fine tried Mesmer?
Well, I was one who thought that Necro was fine at conditions, but, sadly, they aren’t as everyone is especting compared to Mesmers Thieves and Warriors.

Kryank.8069:

@ sorrow just lols !! All you have succeeded in is impressing everyone with your ability to claim success without backing it up with any sense on fact or cohesive argument I applaud you sir!!
You are indeed a winner!!

What do you exactly mean with a cohesive argument?
I’ve made 6 posts trying to explain you what the situation is to the eyes of the majority of players and you keep saying “Hey, it’s subjective!”, without explaining why you think it isn’t overpowered and focusing on the “it is counterable” part, which doesn’t matter in terms of balancing.

In case you’ve missed it, this is me explaining in this topic why everyone think Moa Morph is overpowered:

Without considering that 180 seconds aren’t 4 minutes, the fact that it can be avoided means nothing. All skills in this game can be avoided, but only some have devastating and game breaking effects like the Moa Morph has. Also, you can’t pay a special attention to the mesmer, fearing he casts only one skill that at any time can change the battle’s outcome that, also, isn’t that easy to dodge as you think (there aren’t only 1vs1 situations when you are always on full endurance).
Making a player useless for 10 seconds, negating all the transformations, despawning all the pets all this packed in 1200 range and a low casting time is just unbalanced to the eyes of every player who isn’t using that skill and this is just a part of the overpowered parade of the mesmer. You probably don’t know any other elite than the mesmer’s ones if you think that it is ok because it is an elite, it can be avoided and has high cooldown…
In Guild Wars there was skills like that, but either they lasted only 3 seconds or disabled your skills also, while having an incredibly long casting time and very low range. People ran that kind of builds, but none claimed they were overpowered.

If a cohesive argument for you is me begging for forgiveness for my ignorance and asking you to give me some of your absolute knowledge of the PvP situation, than I’m not going to have a cohesive argument with you.

Mikali.9651:

Necro. I’m kinda sad I didn’t try them out. People are crying about them on this forums, but in PvP they are the ones that takes me longest to kill.
DS is strong. Problem is, a lot of players are using it just before they are about to die. A lot of players take my full combo without them being in DS.
There is nothing more frustrative when you are guardian with 6 boons and necro strips them all making them into conditions. STRONG. And I like it.
I see necro as they were in gw1: they are not here to deal insane amount of damage, they are here to make your strong points in you weakness, and I like it.

Lich Form, Minion Masters…they need something, they never ever gave me any problem.

I want to answer this as a Necro.
The only fact that you said “they are the ones that takes me longest to kill” is indicative of the state of the Necro.
Death Shroud is a strong mechanic sure, only if it didn’t last few seconds and it wasn’t too hard to build Life Force without traiting in. Actually I’m running a build with 30 points on Soul Reaping and my Life Force goes down so fast that you don’t even realize that you went in Death Shroud.

Also, the Axe is meant only for damage, because it has no conditions/controls at all, but its damage is just ridicolous.

The skills you are talking about that transform boons in condition are two, one of them has 40 seconds of cooldown, apply poison to the caster and half the time doesn’t work, the other is a PBAoE (unless if traited) which transform just one condition per second for 5 seconds if the enemy stands in the AoE and, of course, has an insane recharge time of 45 seconds.
They would be good, sure, but they aren’t since there is one pinky profession that do the same job with better results.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thievery
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Disenchanter

Plus, you have pets which actually works and attack enemy players!

http://i.imgur.com/hTGqX.jpg
Here we go.
The big part is the Necro which is my main character and I want to play to master it at maximum, hoping in a buff. Then there are Thief, Guardian, Warrior and now I’m starting playing Mesmer after I’ve heard on the Necromancer forum that Mesmers do the same job as the Necro but better and it’s true for the most part.

Playing Necromancer for me is a sort of challange, because I know I perform way better with Thief or Guardian, but getting a kill with Necromancer feels more satisfying than a kill obtained by a gimmick profession.

Kryank.8069:

@sorrow, sorry mate you are just in a mood for a fight for some reason, all you have done is rant on about how OP Moa morph in threads on here and wvw, and there is no point trying to reason or have a factual discussion with you. If you feel that it’s OP that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. I have already said it may be OP to some players lets just leave it there and I refer you to my signature.

So the “i’m superior” tactic is the best escape from a discussion you know you have lost from the start.
Also you are confusing me with someone other, since I’ve neved posted a single message in the WvWvW forum.

What I’m saying could be an opinion if me and few other people agree with me, then the rest have different ideas. But when almost everyone who haven’t a mesmer as a main character are complaining about Moa Morph, it is enough for everyone to stop and think for a minute about THAT skill compared to the other and stop saying “it’s just an opinion, to me it’s fine”.
What about if there was an istant kill skill? What would you say if people complain about that skill? “Uh, to me it’s fine, you can dodge it. It’s your opinion”. Well, Moa Morph isn’t as far from that kind of skill as you would think and this isn’t an opinion because 10 seconds are more than enough to kill someone.

If you don’t want to see the facts, it isn’t me the problem, it’s you.

Poxxia.1547:

Ooops .. 3 min then. In my eyes it means a lot, that it can be avoided. Compared to TW it means a lot. There are frankly a LOT of elites and skills in general that can’t be avoided.
1vs1 or 2vs2 you should be aware of what the mesmer is throwing .. you should know the animations … I know them for pretty much anything but warriors by now.

I am just saying, that anything that takes up an elite-slot (when you compare to the vast amount of other elites out there) should be worth it. And no .. it is not a defense of Moa, and in particular not about how it affects necro’s. I DID actually have a main-alt necro (now I focus on engineer and thief .. wonder why). Stop rampaging.

And really … stop making assumptions about me … it makes you look bad in every possible way. Throwing mud at me serves no purpose other than making you look immature.
I DID play GW1 (our small guild actually did really well in tournaments back then).

Well, the only elite that comes in my mind that can’t be avoided is Entangle, but it isn’t as destructive as Moa is. The elites you are talking about are probably buffs, transformations or summons which doesn’t fall in our topic.

Yes, I should know the animations, but, as I said before, no other professions has a so devastating and game-breaking effect on a single skill and this is what I call unbalance. The fact is that for some people here everything is fine, Moa Morph is fine and other professions just have to L2P. Do you agree with them?

If with “throwing mud” you referred to this:

You probably don’t know any other elite than the mesmer’s ones if you think that it is ok because it is an elite, it can be avoided and has high cooldown

I don’t know how you can feel offended by this statement.
I didn’t make assumpion about you, I’ve just made an hypothetical deduction based on what you said.

Poxxia.1547:

@Sorrow: About Moa … it is an elite, it is on a 4 min cd (!!) … it can be avoided (and frankly using another cd to use this cd is just underlining this) unlike other spells … now IF it lands, shouldn’t it be powerful … in all fairness? I am not defending the state it is in, but with all the “if’s and but’s” connected to this spell, it does in my eyes deserve to be strong. I would personally prefer if it was replaced … I am not really a fan of it.

Without considering that 180 seconds aren’t 4 minutes, the fact that it can be avoided means nothing. All skills in this game can be avoided, but only some have devastating and game breaking effects like the Moa Morph has. Also, you can’t pay a special attention to the mesmer, fearing he casts only one skill that at any time can change the battle’s outcome that, also, isn’t that easy to dodge as you think (there aren’t only 1vs1 situations when you are always on full endurance).

Making a player useless for 10 seconds, negating all the transformations, despawning all the pets all this packed in 1200 range and a low casting time is just unbalanced to the eyes of every player who isn’t using that skill and this is just a part of the overpowered parade of the mesmer. You probably don’t know any other elite than the mesmer’s ones if you think that it is ok because it is an elite, it can be avoided and has high cooldown…

In Guild Wars there was skills like that, but either they lasted only 3 seconds or disabled your skills also, while having an incredibly long casting time and very low range. People ran that kind of builds, but none claimed they were overpowered.

So, Kryank, you have played only the professions people are complaining to be overpowered and you are claiming to have an objective view of the PvP situation.

Now I’ll pointing your inaccuracy out: how can you say Moa is a subjective matter if you don’t even know whether people who are not complaining about Moa are all Mesmers and you didn’t even played all the professions which in common sense aren’t overpowered?

RedDawn.7386:

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m enjoying my Necro and I won’t be re-rolling to another class simply because the “grass seems greener”. Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will realise that classes which are unbalanced, underpowered or underperforming will be buffed. Those that are overpowered will be nerfed. It’s just how it is.

The game is barely a month old and a class as complex as the Necromancer will take a while to iron out. Now that the game is out, ANet can begin the tough job of balancing classes as best they can and improving their playability.

For me personally I saw this with Warlocks in World of Warcraft, and it’s the same story here. Just wait it out and you’ll see the buffs/balancing you want come to Necros and they will have their time in the spotlight.

Just because they’re not awesome today, doesn’t mean they won’t be tomorrow. And when that day comes, you will be able to look back at the “dark ages” of the class and realise you stuck with it and are a veteran. Not a Flavour of the Month re-roller.

Well, you’re probably new here and you aren’t yet informed about the Jon Peters’ post.

@Kryank:
I don’t see any hate here, we are just discussing.
That Moa Morph is OP isn’t subjective, it is clear and shiny that it is way too powerful. Comparing it to Time Warp isn’t a valid argument, since it is another skill that needs to work on. You are talking in your Mesmer perception, I want to invite you to try out a Necro or an Elementalist, then use their elites and their skills and realize if you are as effective as you were with your mesmer. If you are, probably the mesmer isn’t overpowered, if you aren’t it is. Most players did this and went to this conclusion.

I’ve stated just two posts ago that probably there are few people who judge without actually playing the class, but they aren’t in a number to be considered significant in any way.

It’s just like saying that because someone was born with three arms, all humans have three arms and stating that humans have two arms is incorrect.

Guys, seriously?
I may agree with Hundred Blades which is sub-par compared to Pistol Whip, these skills are clearly overpowered.

Pistol Whip has high damage, is spammable and has a stun in it. Of course you can counter it if you have a stun breaker in your build (which most the time has horrible cooldown), but the fact is that it outperforms all burst combo in the game and it is just one skill! You would say that there is HS which is better but it just proves that the whole thief profession is overpowered.

Moa Morph is the most dumb skill ever. You can’t state it is just fine when just one skill kicks out from the combat a player for whole 10 seconds and makes totally useless some builds (like minion master Necros) and almost all transformations.

@Kryank:
Do you think that is untrue that that guy will never answer this topic?
Do you think that his rant about Moa Bird is unfounded?

By the way, I’ve stated a post later that there are people who complain without playing the profession, but they are so few to be considered insignificant. The first statement was an hyperbole.

And, of course, you really don’t need to play a mesmer to realize that Moa Morph is clearly overpowered when you are running a minion build.

Visualize.4319:

I love your enthusiasm and idealism but stating anything in absolutes is childish, nothing is backed by your claims. You simply tell yourself one thing and refuse any other input that could deviate from your own ideals. Frightful way to conceive beliefs/opinions.

I’m talking considering my experience. None I’ve talked in this forum is stating X profession is OP before actually playing it and as now, it looks way more accurate than your considerations.
Sure there are players who joined the chorus without playing that professions, but they are a minority and probably won’t answer your question so they are insignificant. Focusing on this minority when there are bunch of players that actually tried these professions before complaining is pointless.

Visualize.4319:

Sorrow,
if you play every class too, them I applaud you, however there are many who don’t and complain about them. Those are the people I’m actually referring to and questioning the logic on this subject.

The point is that none is doing that.
Everyone who complains about these classes being overpowered, as I said, are people who played another profession and then rerolled to one of them to be competitive in sPvP and now they are.

If you are waiting for someone who is criticizing these professions without even playing them, you are waiting for a ghost.

thejoshknight.4697:

Now, to get it out of the way, I consistantly play a guardian in pvp, however, I tend to agree on several points raised by the OP regarding the guardian in particular.

On the guardian, I have to agree with a few points raised on both sides. Firstly, there is a difference between a class being overpowered and other classes being underpowered in their respective roles. Coming into the game, I did research on GW1 and classes in GW2, and decided I wanted that tough support character, so I chose the guardian. I came into the game knowing that the guardian would perform the best in the role I wanted, a tough, point holding machine. Even though the holy trinity is gone, for the most part, some classes will always, always, perform better then others in a given role. However, with this stated, I think other classes should get more efficient options to fill the role the guardian does. I do think though, that the reason that guardians are complained about so often is that since they have the lowest base hp pool in the game (shared with elementalists), they are given many abilites that will help them survive. Would I advocate an overall guardian nerf? No. Would I advocate other classes becoming more competent in filling the role of the guardian? Yes.

By the way, the reason I wouldn’t advocate a guardian nerf overall is I’m not sure what you could change without messing up how the class plays, because changes for the cause of pvp affect pve as well. For instance, you can’t really drop the vitality pool anymore, and the only reason a guardian can survive in melee in pve, specifically dungeons, is due to the defensive abilities of the class. Cut these defensive abilites out from pve, and a guardian can’t really melee at that point, and our ranged ability is limited to the scepter, which only serves as a gap filler in pve at the moment for when you need to heal up out of melee.

Well, suggesting to powering up every other professions has the same result to nerfing the guardian, but it is way too messy to archieve.

None is complaining about professions without playing them.
Most of people that complain are mostly Necromancers and Elementalists who had spent hours and hours on they professions, then rerolled these classes and performed way better without having any experience at them.
That’s at least what I’ve learnt in my experience and what is happening in the Necro forum.

Most of people that are complaining about these professions are actually playing them to be competitive in PvP, because this is the only way to be effectively competitive in PvP.

There are tons of legendary weapons to make.

These are the only ones I’ve seen on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plCpEbV158k

If all legendaries are as cool as these weapons, you have something to do for the next 6 months.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

So it is balanced that you must build your character and your strategy around defeating guardians?

This is false logic. Really you could supplant guardians with any bunker class. And YES, you should have at least one bunker-buster character in an organized team build.

And yes, if you’re seeing a trend in the meta you should build to counter that trend if you want to play successfully.

Summary. If you play a thief or mesmer everything is cool, if not you need to l2p.

I want to physically injure you.

There’s a difference in what people are complaining and what is an actually valid feedback. Most problems, yes, it is ‘learn to play’. The number of bads in this game is suprising even among mesmers thieves and guardians. But given these classes are popular, the ease of how these classes can be counterered should already be well known now.

Thief is a glass cannon, stun him once in his rotation and he’s forced to try to reset. Get agressive with him, and not sit passive every time he goes invisible, and you’ll find yourself winning against thieves consistantly.

Guardian’s are buff-kittens. Lay on the condition and buff removal and watch him melt. If you think you’re going to win against him with a physically bursty combo, you’re going to have a bad time.

And mesmers are so reliant on their their phantasems these days it’s embarassing. Destroy them with AoEs, lock down the mesmer with cripple/chill/imobalize and they’re dead.

Every other thing in this game right now that makes these classes stand out, is a matter of bugs (Each profession is littered with them, they need to be fixed.) and general performance tweeks like AoE damage spells and the rarity of Boon Removal.

Using the Portal to speed up repairs for Trebuchets is the only thing that could use a hotfix, and even that can be countered by not being akittenand constantly ambush the enemy trebuchet whether it’s up or not. Stick a tanky up there same way you would a capture point and if the enemy team tries to gank the assaulter, you punish them on the points. It’s amazing why people can’t think of a simple countergame like that.

We don’t need to know how to counter these professions, we already know that. The fact that they are counterable doesn’t mean they don’t need a nerf. In terms of Guild Wars experience, there were tons of builds that were overused like smite monks, seeping assassins, palm strike assassins, shattering assault, IWAY, bspike and so on. Of course they were counterable and people learned to do so, but they were nerfed anyways because they outperformed every other build and almost 60-70% of the players were running that.

“Overpowered” doesn’t means “Unbeatable”, it just means “Overpowered”.

Corpus.5347:

At this moment, this is what I am going for: http://tinyurl.com/cbsyz9m

really like the scepter/dagger combo combined with the staff, found it to be a blast in wvw as well. Looking forward to seeing how it does end game.

For doofus the squirrel The thread is for necro builds. If you want to kitten and moan about the class there are several other threads with folks rehashing the same gripes over and over. Go join them.

I think this is the build everyone is playing. At least it is the one I’m playing since it is the most effective (in sPvP i mean).

I’ve tried to run Axe/Warhorn and Staff, but the damage output is unsatisfactory. Same with Dagger/Warhorn. By the way, I feel the dagger quite strange since you have to stay in close range to autoattack and then you can go in medium range to use the other skills… Why this?