Guild Wars 2

Schwahrheit.4203:

That’s a misleading opinion because Mace + Shield is VIABLE. Just understand that people like me will be in a sour disposition if you feed others WRONG information.

More viable than Axe + Shield ever well be if I might add. Is it right for someone getting C’s and D’s to say “It’s not fair because I wasn’t born smart.?” Did not mean anything right there but you get my point. You don’t get to tell everyone that you have to be born smart to be smart. Same with Mace, you don’t say it isn’t viable when DID NOT have the decency to check its full potential out. And its full potential is very devastating specially when you have the balls to go glass cannon and make plays around it. I’ll give you an example. “Unsuspecting Foe” says hi and plays can be made around it. Much easier than making plays around Hammer.

And no, you don’t simply take away Quickness when there are more broken things in the game. The quickness has incentive, and you don’t simply take away quickness because of the incentive. Again and I hate to repeat myself, casuals should NEVER have a say in balance because it will hurt both the casual world AND the competitive world.

This is your opinion and you should’t have the presumption to think that is an absolute truth. The main difference between my opinion and yours is that mine is supported by the overall statistics. If mace was that good as you’re saying, we would probably see most players running mace but, right now, I’m sure that the warriors running mace you have seen in your whole PvP experience are less than 5%.

Also, making the assumption that I’m a casual player doesn’t help your cause.

Quickness is mainly the reason of most broken builds around here. The simple fact that quickness litterally double your attacking speed and most likely the damage output is a true kick in the balls into balancing, expecially if you consider that not every profession has access to it.
Quickness means that your target needs twice faster reflexes to survive your spike, which is absolutely stupid considering that the downsides aren’t that heavy.
Did you played Guild Wars? Frenzy, back that time, gave only +33% attack speed and the damage taken while in frenzy were doubled. You would say that this skill is trash and none used it, but it was a must on every warrior build and, trust me or not, warriors required actually some skills to choose the right time when to enter in frenzy because, if you went in Frenzy with a wrong timing, you probably have died or you are almost dead. Now there is absolutely no skills required to land your quickness combo, you just have to push the button and unload all your high damage skills and, if the target isn’t really good, it is dead. You see, the skill level required to land a kill isn’t equal to the skill level required to prevent that kill, which is a clear sign of a balance issue.

Burntnoodle.4603:

There isn’t much too it other than one build will always put out the most damage, one build will always be the best bunker, ect. It is impossible to make this kind of game, where there are multiple classes and multiple “trees” completely 4000% balanced. One build will always be the best. Thats when skill come into play, you could have the best build and still be terrible. Skill > Build any day of the week.

This is absolutely not true.
ArenaNet made an awesome job in Guild Wars and skills there were way more than they are now, I’m sure that perfect balance is a more accessible goal with Guild Wars 2 and I’m sure they’ll get better balance they got with Guild Wars, we just need to give them time.

Also that’s not true that if you are running the best build and you are bad you aren’t going to win and Thieves and HB warriors proves that.
I’ve runned those builds without having any experience with and I succeded the same way I did with my Necromancer (also better), which I played since release and I think I’m in a not so bad point of its learning curve.

@Schwahrheit: any occasion is nice to argue about anyone’s skill here on the forum, right? If someone thinks different than you, it doesn’t really mean that he is unskilled and you are skilled.
Mace as it is now, in my opinion, it is unviable. If you want to run a stunlock build there isn’t nothing that let you chose a mace over an hammer.
You see that HB is broken when everyone uses it, but you are right, in some aspect, HB itself isn’t broken, what is broken is quickness, which fits insanely well with HB. Quickness nerf should be the first priority in balancing, imho. There should be an IAS similiar to Guild Wars, only +33% attack speed and way less cooldown, +100% is just stupid.

@ayedenunited: you are right, virtually speaking mace is the best fitting weapon for a bunker but the fact is that none is running that weapon due to insanely low attack speed. Using Hammer/Sword/Scepter is way better.

Braxxus.2904:

sorrow.2364:

Warriors:
- Greatsword nerf: quickness GS build is overused and overeffective. There should be a slight nerf on that build to encourage to experiment more options.

- Sword right now is quite underused, probably because none thinks that running condition is a good choice when you have more effective build so play. After the GS nerf, we’ll see more sword warrios imho.

Other weapons are fine. Probably I’d like to see a slight nerf on Volley damage, because it is far too high on a condition weapon.

I’m trying to understand this “logic”. Warrior condition builds are complete kitten, every other class that build for conditions does it far more effectively/quickly. Yet your line of thinking is that “swords/condition warriors are weak, so if we nerf the stuff that works to be weak as well then people might play them”. What?

It’s like saying your bicycle is underused on the freeway so if we pour sugar in your cars gas tank you might ride your bike more.

Actually Sword isn’t that weak. The fact is that it isn’t worth running when you have way more powerful weapon like greatsword. Just look at your autoattacks.
They deal 8 seconds of bleeding, way more if traited, and has a really good damage. Sword really doesn’t look UP, it is just that no warrior prefer conditions over quickness hb or Axe.

Other professions can’t build conditions more quickly than sword and also they don’t have the raw damage sword has.

No, in my opinion absolutely not.
There is no reason at all to weapon swapping and way less reason to limit some professions to have no weapon swapping at all.
To me, changing weapon in PvP feels like cheating.

Agree.
There are a lot of balancing to do.
Some professions have almost every builds viable, some have just one, others have none.
In my opinion, there should be a mass build balancing in PvP to make every build viable the same way. Here is my suggestions:

Warriors:
- Greatsword nerf: quickness GS build is overused and overeffective. There should be a slight nerf on that build to encourage to experiment more options.
- Mace buff: it is underperforming, mostly because it is more fitting with a defensive build. There should be a slight buff on warrior defensive capabilities.
- Sword right now is quite underused, probably because none thinks that running condition is a good choice when you have more effective build so play. After the GS nerf, we’ll see more sword warrios imho.
- Bow buff: bow is quite underperforming right now, probably because of its weakness but it is the only AoE weapon of warriors. Imo, there should be a buff to the AoE capability of bow to make warriors more useful when ranged AoE is needed.

Other weapons are fine. Probably I’d like to see a slight nerf on Volley damage, because it is far too high on a condition weapon.

Guardians:
- Defensive capability nerf and offensive capability buff: There should be a nerf on the overall defensive capabilities because, right now, it is the only played guardian build. So I’d like to see more offensive shouts and utility skills and less defensive ones.
- Mace buff: none is using it right now and it is quite unviable in any way.

To me, this is more than enough to see way more variety in the guardian side.

Rangers:
- Spirit buff: rangers really need it. Spirits are just useless.
- Greatsword buff: right now greatsword is underperforming compared to sword, there is no reason at all to use that weapon over any other set.
- Shortbow change: shortbow was already nerfed but it is not enough. Like it is now, the autoattack is more than enough in any situation. There should be less condition spamming capability and encourage the use of other skills to be effective.

Engineers:
Haven’t played enough to say something.

Thieves:
- D/D nerf: there is really no other build which is more effective than D/D. Backstab needs a slight damage nerf and Assassin Signet needs a functionality change. CnD need to cost a bit more initiative and than D/D should be fine.
- Pistol buff: right now, pistol is the most underused weapon among thieves. There should be a buff to the overall effectiveness of pistol, also to the dual skills when paired to dagger.
- Stealth fix: stealth should end when you use a skill, no matters if you miss or not. Also it should give a little clue on where the thief is when you hit him with a skill. There should be also a buff to the Shadow Art traitline, which is not worth spending trait points because Stealth is just as effective if you spec or not in Shadow Arts.
- Steal skills balance: some of them are way overperforming, it is clear to everyone. Because they are occasional skill it is right that they are a bit more effective that normal skills, but right now some are just way more powerful than others (on Warriors and on Necros).

Elementalists:
Haven’t played tham that much, can’t really suggest some balancing.

Mesmers:
- Moa wipe: that skill shouldn’t be in the game, period. Give Mesmers another Elite skill, but take that joke out.
- Phantasms nerf: right now, damage of phantasms is way to high coupled with conditions they can apply. There should be not a nerf on the raw phantasms damage, but on the traits that buff phantasms which are way too much and way too effective.

I’ve not played mesmer that much (only tried the op gimmick build which are around), but I’m sure some weapon sets need a buff because of they poor effectiveness. Obviously not Sword/Pistol, Staff or Greatsword.

Necromancers:
- Axe buff: that weapon is a joke. The damage is low, it is slow and it is absolutely weak and underperforming.
- Dagger MH rework: right now, dagger feels more like the only burst Necro weapon and not like the vampiric one. There should be more viability on vampiric builds when running Dagger MH.
- Staff Autoattack rework/buff: probably the weakest in the game, there should be a real rework of that skill.
- Overall traitline rework: there are some minor traits which are just awful. Most Necros prefer to not have any trait at all that have traits like Reanimator. Traits synergy is awful. some traits that makes a build effective are spread among more traitlines, Minion Master, for instance, have to spec in 3 traitlines (Death, Blood and Spite) to make only their minions effective.
- More minion control: right now they are the weakest pets in the game. You have no control at all and their AI is just awful. There should be some rework and fixes to minion but right now as they are, they are unviable in any way except as meat shields in PvE.

That’s all.

Luka.6831:

sorrow.2364:

… Almost every skill in this game can be dodged or avoided if not LoS,…

Indeed.

sorrow.2364:

Following your reasoning, if ArenaNet made an instakill skill with 2 seconds casting time, it would be perfectly fine to you because it can be avoided, dodged or interrupted.

Its already in the game, its called Backstab. But yeah bad analogy is bad.

sorrow.2364:

… And yes, time warp is way better in some situations, that’s why Mesmers are OP in almost everyone’s opinion.

Not really, mostly people who are unfamiliar with the Mesmer concept from Gw1 (and those who get owned by Mesmers) think they’re OP.

Dude, Backstab isn’t an insta-kill skill, it is a sort of bug abuse combining two skills who works insanely well together, I’m sure it will addressed in the next patches, but anyway that skill isn’t in any form an insta-kill.

Anyway, looks like you haven’t played GW1 enough to get the Mesmer concept. I’ve played GW for 5 years and I’m pretty sure that the old Mesmer concept in GW2 is mostly represented by the confusion condition. As far as I remember there wasn’t any skill on the Mesmer which totally disables enemy’s skills without any remedy and any repercussion on the caster.
You should remember Blackout, which is a skill that strongly resembles Moa Morph in GW2, but:

1. It was a 5-6 seconds disable skill placed in a way slower game compared to GW2
2. It disables also the caster’s skills
3. It had touch range
4. It had a very obvious animation

All other skills which disables more than one enemy skills was Power Block which worked only if interrupts a skill and disabled only the skills of a specific attribute, not any skill, for max 13 secs, all this packed in a much slower game where also the deadliest Assassin took 4-5 seconds to kill someone.

I really don’t see when Moa is adherent to the GW1 Mesmer concept, it is just an insanely overpowered skill, also if it was in GW1.

Immo: posting videos of people winning with no trinity means absolutely nothing. Good players against very bad players running trinity will sure win, but running the trinity gives you an insane advantage that compensates the lack of skills most cases.

A match with two almost equally skilled teams, one running Guardians/Mesmers/Thieves(Warriors) and the other one running Necros/Elementalists/Rangers, will have a nearly sure result, that’s the point, otherwise you won’t see that insane presence of these professions in tPvP.

@Immo: The only thing I’ve seen in that stream is a team that heavily relies on Necros getting facerolled against a team that relies on the holy GW2 trinity. But, obviously, you didn’t see the stream you actually suggested as a pro Necro footage.

Merciless.5349:

Bunker Build<<<<<<<<<< Everything Else >>>>>>>>>>>> Glass Cannon

This is the range of the classes in the game right now. The 2 outside points are way too strong at what they do.

Are some other builds effective? Sure they are. But not to the extent that bunkers and glass cannons are.

Have to agree.
When did you see the last time someone running a balanced spec? It is a pure suicide.
You don’t have enough defenses to resist a glass cannon enough time and you don’t have enough damage to kill a bunker and this is just crazy. The only builds who make an exception are the conditions heavy ones, but they are another type of extremization.

There should reduce the overall effectiveness of bunkers and glass cannons to encourage balanced builds to grow up.

Luka.6831:

Zatria.5783:

Luka.6831:

sorrow.2364:

@Zogyark: your post is hilarious. Are you seriously suggesting to try to attack your enemy with a 2 seconds casting time melee skills that deals 1k damage in the best case?

Are you saying that Moa isn’t overpowered because it can be… DODGED?!?

.

Moa can be dodged/evaded quite easily. Moa also often fails due to LoS or because you moved out of its range. You must be quite a…. talent if Moa represents a game-breaking issue for you.

Quite easily? It’s players like you that keep this game from getting better. Unless all you do is run around hiding around corners waiting to pvp a mesmer, you are not going to simply dodge anything. Stop lying.

Sorry Im not lying. If you have basic PvP feeling in your fingers, dodging Moa (and generally most other abilities) comes quite naturaly. If you stand like a rock infront of a mob… then yeah, Moa would be a death sentence.

You argument to defend Moa is quite hilarious, like every other arguments that relies on dodge/LoS. Almost every skill in this game can be dodged or avoided if not LoS, but this doesn’t mean that you can give a skill any ridiculous effect just because it can be avoided.

Following your reasoning, if ArenaNet made an instakill skill with 2 seconds casting time, it would be perfectly fine to you because it can be avoided, dodged or interrupted.
Quite stupid, don’t you think?

And yes, time warp is way better in some situations, that’s why Mesmers are OP in almost everyone’s opinion. But let’s take a problem a time and now, Moa is the most ridiculous and anti-fun skill.

Wolfe.3097:

Yukishiro.8792:

I was just responding to the silly people saying “just use a cripple or chill!” HS has a 450 jump attached. If you’re spamming it you close distance quicker than someone can run away from you even if you are chilled or crippled, unless they also have swiftness.

Again the problem with HS is it does too many things at once for just spamming one button. It makes awful players into vaguely competent ones and no ability should do that.

uhm no, the 450 jump is shortened when the thief is chilled. you can in fact run faster then it less the thief uses haste.

Nope.
Snares make no sense when you have skills that moves for you. It could have some sense in GW where there was no leap, but now snare is the counter of nothing.

Zoid.2568:

^ Anyone can play a Warrior with uber damage or a Thief but not everyone can play the Mesmer perfect. Mesmer has the highest learning curve along with the Elementalist.

Wait, no. Mesmer has the highest learning curve compared to other gimmick professions, but it is still extremely easy to play when you compare it to Necromancers, Engineer and Elementalists.

@Ayestes: you say that it is easy to kite? That when heartseeker comes. Cheap leap and also some damage.

What about the Scythe? Guild Wars had scythe, that would be freaking nice to build your reaper Necro. Scythe should let you play like a dark derwish, with full melee abilities.

Guys, this thread is totally pointless. Why does thieves need to use heartseeker when they can pop out some ridiculous damage just with the autoattack?

http://i46.tinypic.com/2afncj7.jpg

Consider that the thieves’ autoattack just takes a bit more than a second to be fully chained.
Only noob thieves use heartseeker, pro thieves use autoattack.

I’ve never had issues in PvE as a Necro. Use your minion in the best way you can do: meat shields.

When you are running MM, I suggest you to run with an high power build focusing on Death Shroud.
So, you should run something like 30-10-0-0-30, obviously you can change the traits as you want.
The important thing is that you have the Spite trait who gives you Might on Life Blast and the trait who let Life Blast pierce and cause vulnerability.
The only use of the minion is to take the damage for you when you are popping out incredible damage with your Life Blast while in Death Shroud. You can also put something more in Death Magic and use the trait who makes the minion more tanky (50% more life), but it isn’t really needed.

Try this build and you won’t have any problem in PvE.

@Zogyark: your post is hilarious. Are you seriously suggesting to try to attack your enemy with a 2 seconds casting time melee skills that deals 1k damage in the best case?
Are you saying that Moa isn’t overpowered because it can be… DODGED?!?

I agree that Time Warp is another ridiculously op skill, but you saying that Moa isn’t op is the funniest thing I’ve seen today.

If you guys are too sure of what you are saying, why you don’t post the video so everyone can know that I was wrong? What’s the point of inviting me to join instead of posting a video?
Please, what you are saying is just stupid. If you want I believe to what you say it is your care to post the proof, not mine to get it from you.
It’s like:
- “hey, I’ve seen the biggest rat in the world!”
- “have you a picture of it?”
- “no, I don’t but come here to see it”
- “but why don’t you take a picture of it?”
- “you just have to come here to see it! trust me, there is!”

Than no one have seen that rat, but everyone thinks that rat exsisted.
LOL

Smackjack.5071:

Mammoth.1975:

Smackjack.5071:

sorrow.2364:

Mammoth.1975:

How would you like to jump on a server right now and see? PM me.

You just need to enter in any sPvP/tPvP match, open fraps, record a video and put it on YouTube or to give me a video of someone’s else doing this. There is no need to let me jump in a server and wasting half an hour of my life to see something that probably won’t happen.

You are being offered the oportunity to see it live right there and there. You are offered evidence like this and you turn it down with THAT answer??

wow , just wow and how sad is that? :/

To be fair, he’s probably right. I won’t survive for a minute+ against 3 players if one or two of them are semi competent, but every now and then you get fights like the guys trying to take down that guard.

Well yeah of course. But it only takes one time to show how it can be be happen. Like in most videos complaining about how OP a elementalist is followed by a showing how someone is being schooled by one.

He only needs to see it once to get his proof that it is possible and because of a skilled player. but he already chickened out of the offer so we can all throw all his arguments out of the window from here on.

There is still the fact that none already posted that video.
Obviously I’m talking about sPvP/tPvP, don’t even try to post WvWvW kitten, like someone did to prove elementalists were good.

Smackjack.5071:

Is that enough for you , are you sure you were focusing on anything other then this ?

Oh, wait. That is me saying that the topic isn’t about op’s skill! Wow!
And than there is you saying that the op’s skill is relevant to the subject of the topic, which is game balancing. LOL
So, all this is because you are saying that if the op was good, than the game would be unbalanced but, since the op is bad, the game is perfectly fine or there is no point to discuss about game balancing. Makes sense.

Mammoth.1975:

Then again, I survived 4 players on me at keep while afk posting that last post, then healed up and had my teammates arrive, at which point we killed them all and I’m now on a rampage. Add me and join :P Oh, and now the game finished, top glory…

lol

Smackjack.5071:

sorrow.2364:

Mammoth.1975:

How would you like to jump on a server right now and see? PM me.

You just need to enter in any sPvP/tPvP match, open fraps, record a video and put it on YouTube or to give me a video of someone’s else doing this. There is no need to let me jump in a server and wasting half an hour of my life to see something that probably won’t happen.

You are being offered the oportunity to see it live right there and there. You are offered evidence like this and you turn it down with THAT answer??

wow , just wow and how sad is that? :/

He takes just the same time to record the video and to show me that personally. I see no point to waste my time to see something that won’t happen, but he proposed to show me that personally because he knew that I would decline that, which proves that he was saying bs.
I’m sure he will deliver nothing or if he delivers something, it won’t be what he claimed to be.

Smackjack.5071:

LOLLMAOROFLOMG what?

If i had not been in danger of a ban for saying it i would have said something else but you know what ,have a lollipop ,suck on that.
-
You know what you could do to see the answer that go back and read my 5 last posts or so in response to you and you can count the amount of times i have resorted to using my own quote to answer the same daRn subject including the original post from which i started quoting myself in order to keep answering that same subject you keep bringing up time and time again.

I am not going to do it for you , do it yourself there simply are to many of them.

I did, I’ve just seen me trying to focusing on the game balancing itself and you keeping argue about op’s skills. This is probably why you have the time to write bs but you have no time to quote when I drove the argument on op’s skills.

Mammoth.1975:

How would you like to jump on a server right now and see? PM me.

You just need to enter in any sPvP/tPvP match, open fraps, record a video and put it on YouTube or to give me a video of someone’s else doing this. There is no need to let me jump in a server and wasting half an hour of my life to see something that probably won’t happen.

Mammoth.1975:

How about if I can survive like a minute with 3 guys on me, is that class or skill?

Have you a video proving what you are claiming? If you don’t, to me those are only bs. I’ve never seen a video of a Necro surviving alone agains 3 guys for a minute, I’ve never survived for a minute against 3 guys. Looks like you are the only one who can, so if it is true, you are the most skilled player in the game, but what are you saying are most likely bs.

Mammoth.1975:

OK, let’s discuss the mechanics. Nerf mesmers because moa, nerf thieves because backstab, nerf warriors because 100b, nerf rangers because qz crossfire, nerf guardians because they can survive ten seconds.

Then nerf necros, because I can kill the treb with 2 guys on me, then keep fighting them until a third one repairs it, then kill the treb again while all three are on me. That seems a bit stronger than standing on a point for ten seconds.

Nerf engineers and eles, because if it had been an engi or ele on that point, and an engi or ele had turned up as backup, he would have had just as much opportunity to act before he died, as he got chain knocked to death.

Then, when all the class nerfing is done, nerf skill, because that’s why he lost here.

So, am I right if I say that when you are playing a Mesmer, Guardian, Thief, quickness 100b or crossfire you are winning because of skills?
Is that really your opinion?

Smackjack.5071:

sorrow.2364:

Guys, please. I don’t want to argue about op’s skills and you are keep driving the topic to that matter.

What?

I dont know … Do you even have a sliver of a idea what you do and say ?

It is you who keeps bringing this up. Maybe you havent noticed but i even resorted to copy/paste/quote myself because of the sheer amount of times that YOU brough it back into the discussion.

FOUR times in my last post because YOU bring it back up.

…

my god man xD

Please, would you be so kind to quote when I drove the topic back to op’s skills and when you tried to drive it away?

Guys, please. I don’t want to argue about op’s skills and you are keep driving the topic to that matter.
I don’t care of the video itself, I just care about some mechanics which in my opinion and op’s opinion are broken. If you want to argue about that, it is fine. If you want to argue about op’s skills, than I’m out.

Just focus on the real subject of the topic: game balancing. Is this too hard?

Luka.6831:

shaolin.9716:

… Maybe it would be ok if mesmers were not already doing ridiculous damage considering their high escape and survivability.

What ridiculous damage ??

4k for illusionary unload or 5k from berserker, maybe…

@Smackjack: You are doing all wrong, seriously.

1. Is the video about op’s skills? Is the topic about op’s skills? If yes, it is right that everyone is talking about his abilities, but since the video isn’t about his skills, not talking about the problem but focusing on his skills is just stupid.

2. You are missing a very important point. The guardian survived for more than 10 seconds against 3 people, without dodging not considering the time passed while he was fighting with the warrior. Try to archieve the same survivability with any other profession.

3. I’m pretty sure the op has Soldier’s Amulet, so he has at least 1700 toughness plus 27k hp. He was killed by just one thief in less than a second, while the Guardian survived for more than 10 seconds against 3 people.

4. Moa Morph isn’t a profession mechanic, dude, shatter is. Again, you are missing a very important point: Death Shroud does not let your enemy most likely die or make him useless for 10 seconds.

5. People are not saying that the op is wrong, people are just saying that the op is a bad player and this is quite sad.

6. The op has just started the topic dude, we are the ones which discuss about the matter. I really don’t care if the op is good or is bad if I think that what he said is right, also if it is said in the wrong manner. That is what you should do, discuss about what is wrong and what is fine, without taking into account the skills of whom started the topic because they just don’t matter.

You realize that not so much efforts was put into Necromancer when you see almost all skill animations recycled.
So, in my opinion, the best thing to do is to change profession, that’s why I’m now leveling up a Ranger.

Webley.1295:

poppin stealth on a corpse is kind of a waste anyway when theres other ways to do it and save stealth for combat

Cloak and Dagger → Stomp

How can you waste a skill that has no cooldown?

tom.7468:

@sorrow they can do this yes its not broken its intended. if necromancer is weak then why don’t you come with suggestions for improvements on the necromancer ?

I did. Most Necromancers did. I think that most the community knows the Necromancer is quite weak. Just look at Necro subforum, there are plenty of topics suggesting how to change weak mechanics.

Do you really think that no skills neither efforts required is intended with Thieves, Guardians and Mesmers (also shortbow Rangers and gs Warriors)?
Why the kitten do I have to play my profession, if I know that I have to put double the efforts to get results? Just because of doubling the challange and maybe getting frustrated?

@Mammoth: have you read what I said two posts ago?
How can you say that the players he was fighting against were more skilled than the OP? Have you seen the Guardian dodging? Do you think that pressing 4 buttons in sequence require skills? Do you think that spamming clones and than Moa requires so much skills? The op was not that skilled, but the players he was fighting against were less skilled than him, but they abused their broken class mechanic to win against him.
Thief abused the insanely high damage of backstab, Guardian abused the too high defensive capability of his class and the Mesmer abused the incredibly high damage of Phantasms plus the clearly broken Moa Morph.

I’ve started playing the game as a Necro, I’ve played that profession for a considerable amount of matches with some profit, putting a considerable amount of efforts to learn professions’ weakness to survive against them.

Than I’ve tried a Thief just for fun. It was like playing easymode, you don’t need to put so much effort to kill someone, you just need a sequence of skills, you don’t need to dodge to avoid enemys’ damage when you have Stealth. The fights won’t lasts longer than few seconds, all your damage skills have insanely low casting time and insanely high damage. Necro’s Axe and MH Dagger, what can be considered as “burst weapons” of a Necro, can’t deal half the damage the thief do in double the time in all cases.

But still I didn’t tried Guardian; when I did, I realized that it was easymode just like Thief. You don’t need to dodge to survive, you don’t need to use your defensive mechanic wisely. You just have to spam all your skills randomly and you can easily hold up for more than 20 seconds 2 players.
You don’t need to use stunbreakers, you don’t need to make sure your Life Force is high enough to tank the bursts when you have low endurance, you don’t need to dodge at all! You can tank all the damage the enemy is doing to you to survive, also if you randomly spam skills, it is 100% sure that at least you have on either Aegis, Protection, Retaliation or you are blocking.

What about Mesmers, than? The only thing you have to do is to keep your phantasms up, than you can do what you want and, if you see that things are going bad, just use your Moa to fix this. Not to talk about Time Warp, 10 second quickness! Double damage to everyone for 10 seconds!

Seriously.

Smackjack.5071:

We are considering exactly what the OP was showing AND talking about. If what you say were to be true then why did he use these specific examples in his video in the first place?

You said, these are examples. It is like when your father is explaining reproduction with the example of bees and you say “Daddy, bees does not make sex! What are you talking about?”.

Smackjack.5071:

When it came to the guardian he was not even complaining about skills he just simply stated the he should be able to kill a guardian bunker faster then the 10 seconds that was needed in the video. Like i said in my previous post, if taking down a guardian bunker takes to long for him at 10 seconds then how long should clothy or even a medium survive , 3 to 1 second ?

The complain about skill was obvious, of course a good player can survive way longer than a bad player but, in the case of the guardian, bad player or good player doesn’t matters at all, they survive freaking long in both cases.

Smackjack.5071:

^
But then he complains on how a thief can kill him in 2 seconds <<< do you see the whine now ? lol

Or are you implying that the commentary was unrelated to the video he showed ? That would explain that at least a tiny bit but still would not make sense in any way.

The complain is founded. Half a second to kill a player without requiring any skill should be archieved by no professions at all. But, you know, it is better to say that he had do dodge the burst in that half second than see the truth.

Smackjack.5071:

He complains about MOA and specifically how long it takes yet he is a necro with DS which as i stated before has a multitude of benefits that MOA will never have and can last a lot longer.

I survive more MOA’s then i do fighting a necro with a full or 75% full life bar that comes out of it with a fully topped of HP bar.
DS > MOA every single time !

You know, Death Shroud is a profession mechanic, Moa is a kittening skill.
Also, looks like you have no idea how Death Shroud works since there is no way to come out of Death Shroud with more health than you had when you jumped in.
Also, Death Shroud does not make you useless for 10 seconds and can be easily countered by… Moa! Just cast Moa on a shrouded Necro, he can’t exit DS, all his life force melts (life force melts fast also when you are fully traited) and you won.

So if as you say we got it all wrong and that he was merely pointing out unbalanced skills then why did he not even mention AND show the one OP skill he is most familiar with ?

I think you are putting words into it that have never been there tbh while dancing around the facts that are right there for everyone to see.

You can’t really think Necro is OP, you just make everyone laugh.
I don’t even try to explain you why, you just have to let your brain works for few seconds without any bias.

Smackjack.5071:

you cant say ooohw noo he meant it like thiiis and not like thaaat thats BS. He was very specific and he commented exactly on what he had shown.

The only thing valid was the thief backstab but we didnt really need a video for that did we?

This isn’t BS. I see everyone here saying that he is bad, that he has to learn to play and so on while none is actually discussing the skills and mechanics the op wanted to show. This is BS.

Smackjack.5071:

All he did was cry and moan about the skills and builds he himself has issue with , THIS is why he excluded any skill of his own class shown in that video. If it was like you are trying to portrait it was then he would have mentioned a lot more including the necro in particular.

And that is basically what this video is nerf all classes i have trouble with NOW!11 and he doesnt even know how to play so what sort of authority is he on any level ,

This aren’t build he only has issues with, these are builds that the whole community, except players who are running those builds, have issues with. He just wanted to point out what is broken in his opinion and people here keep saying he is bad. That video isn’t a skill showcase, that video is a broken mechanic showcase.
Again, I can’t really accept that you think Necro is op. If you really want to make your argument valid, please, don’t base it on these kind of clearly wrong statements.

milo.6942:

Asmodean.5820:

Reading several comments here I think most of you miss the point the op wants to make entirely. It is not about how good or how bad someone is or how he got into certain situations.

It is about how some skills work and what effects they have – regardless of the situation.

Whatever merit any of the points may have had is overshadowed by the inability to play properly. It’s not simply “those things are OP and that’s the end of the story”. It’s “There are strong abilities and playstyles that I need to be aware of and act properly against.” Many people seem to be taking OP’s defense with the mistaken idea that a team with bad builds and little experience should not get crushed by players that know how to play.

This is not the point of op. He is aware that he is not the best player of GW2, but focusing on his skill level without considering what the OP actually wanted to show is just stupid.
Everyone knows that everything shown in the video is counterable (except stealthstomp), but the point of unbalancing is the amount of skill required to counter something compared with the amount of skill required to afford that something.

For instance, look at the Mesmer fight. It is true that the op did not dodge anything, but look also at the Mesmer. He trew out just 2 random dodges, which evaded just the op’s autoattack. Then, popping out all the Phantasms and than Moa he won the battle which started with half health.

Than look at the Guardian battle. Have you seen him dodging just ONE, ONE time? I didn’t. Than, why the guardiang is supposed to last that long without even dodging, but only randomly spamming his skills? Just try to run a bunker with any other profession and see how you die fast without dodging and throwing skills randomly.

Look also at the last thief. How much skill does it take to use 3-4 skills in sequence? Nothing. Just bind those skills to 1-2-3-4, press them in order and win, if you are a pro thief you can also bind them to buttons far from each other (F1-5-7-1 for instance).
Than how much reflexes did the op required in order to not dying to that burst?

So, you are saying that there is no skill required when a passive trait kills your combo, right?
But now, tell me where is the skill in pressing 3 buttons in a specific order, because I suppose that also at your side there should be some skill required, right?

Lukin.4061:

Well you can counter stealthstomp, just not with necro.

When I’ve read this, I’ve stopped reading your post.
Do you really think what you said? Are you saying that the only counter to something is to… change profession?!? Well, looks like you have a clear idea of balancing.

You guys are keep focusing on the specific situation without considering the whole balancing itself.

No matters how Moa is dodgeable, has a long cooldown and roots you in place for one second, no skill in the game is as destructive and game breaking as the Moa is. Take for instance any Necro skill.
Flash Golem is awful, it dies when you touch the water, you have no knockdown if the golem isn’t in the line of sight of the target (and you know how awful the mechanic is) and it only deals 800 damage every second. Just the Illusionary Duelist, a skill which is on a 16 cooldown when traited, is way better than Flash Golem.
Lich Form is just a way to tell everyone you want to die. You lose the access to you heal skill, you have no bonus to toughness and you became an incredibly big green thing, attracting everyone’s attention.
Plague Form is just decent as a damage mitigation skill, but it only makes you last a bit longer.
How can you say there is balance when just ONE Elite skill of the mesmer is way better than every Necro elite?

I want also ask you why guardians and engineers are the only professions used as point controller, just ask me why. The lack of profession variety in tPvP is a clear sign of not so good balance, expecially in a game who claims to not have the holy trinity.

The thief can deal an incredibly high damage in a so low time and without any efforts, while also having the most powerful defensive mechanic (stealth), which is still effective with no trait points in it. As a Necromancer, you either have to put loads of stat points on toughness or vitality or to fully trait Soul Reaping in order to get an effective survivability.

The game unbalancing is so clear, I don’t understand why some people keep saying that the game is fine.

Eduardo.4675:

Sorrow:
I did not want to do this, but i have to: THEY WERE BAD. There. I said it. Ikittennow who starcraft forever is, u should AUTOMATICALLY realize that he was probably playing with some of his old friends from gw1, therefore, as milo pointed out, VOIP and good players; also, " the only dmg came from the OP when he tried to RANDOMLY…" the clue is in the word randomly…

Oh, sure. Because you can actually know with precision where the thief is when it is stealthed. The only way to counter a stealthed thief is to use your AoE randomly in the direction you think the thief is. It what the op did.

Mammoth.1975:

1. Or a stability stomp, or a multiple stomp. He was dead either way, his teammate was miles away getting his face redecorated. One fear wasn’t going to change anything.
2. AoE. I often kill thieves without even targetting them.
3. If he had dodged even once instead of standing there using the worst autoattack in the game he wouldn’t have been on 5k health when he got morphed.
4. There was plenty of time to death shroud in the first thief kill, he died with 100% life force and endurance. I play with huge latency and I still would have survived that.

The last one is the only example where I’m pretty sure I would have died, but I might have made the same mistakes as he did in the first one and died there too. On the other hand, I probably wouldn’t have gotten that low as a necro vs a bunker guardian, so there’s a chance I would have survived even the last one.

1. Please, don’t consider that situation but the broken mechanic itself. That fear could make a change, because a teammate could have come to ress him few seconds later.
2. He was spamming his AoE, in fact he was using the staff. You have seen what happened.
3. Sure, maybe he would have been on 10k hp, or 15k hp, but than, after morphed, he would always end to have no HP at all or 1k hp around. The mesmer took just 2-3 of the 10 seconds of Moa Morph to kill the op.
4. Maybe in the first case, but what about the others? The op showed 3 thief kills, not just one.

Seether.7285:

Sorrow, he survived long against 3 players because the 3 players were horrible. Look at the video, it’s pretty apparent.

Moa is annoying, but getting hit by Moa in a 1 on 1 is just LOL. OP just stands there with full stamina and gets Moaed.

It is a team game and his team should be letting him know about enemy troop movements, but you can tell that him and his team is bad, as evidenced by a necro trying to 1 on 1 a guardian twice at clock tower, especially when you have this necro behind the controls.

This video and thread are great evidence that the people that complain the loudest often have the most to learn about game mechanics and strategy.

Without considering that you ignored some aspects shown in the video, you keep to not getting the point.

1. The 3 players he was fighting weren’t that bad. I can consider as a bad player only the guardian who is doing absolutely nothing. The thief just went away after he dealt some damage to the other thief, the only damage outcome was from the OP when he tried to randomly place his marks hoping to hit the thief, while the engineer was totally useless because he was running dual pistol, so most damaging skills required a target. Stealth is a pretty strong mechanic and he shouldn’t be this effective when not traited.

2. Consider that also the Mesmer was bad, he should have casted Moa while in Stealth, so there was absolutely no way to counter it. By the way, do you think that is fair that a skill can change a match this way?

3. So, if you see a Guardian controlling a point, it is better you don’t even try to catch it because you are sure you are going to lose. Balanced.

Mammoth.1975:

Actually, I’ve played more necro than anything else, and I’m confident I would have won or survived every example posted except possibly the first, and probably the last. I’m not very good either. A lot of the problems being showcased here are down to player ability.

No, these problem aren’t.

1. You can be the best player out of this world, but there is no way to counter a stealth stomp as a Necro. This is the most obvious unbalance shown in the video.
2. It is a fact that thieves can abuse stealth mechanic also when they are built as glass cannon, with very few points in defensive traits. I bet the thief who was popping in and out of stealth had berserker amulet with no more than 1000 toughness and 1200 vitality, so why he survived that long against 3 players? It is crazy. If any other profession (with some famous exceptions) are built with low toughness and low vitality would never last more than few seconds against 3 players.
3. I don’t want to comment the Moa, I think its opness is pretty obvious.
4. There was really few possibilities to counter the last 2 thief kills, you should know that. The op had no time to realize that there was a thief coming that he was dead. Balanced, uh?

ColinJohanson.2394:

Rank is intended to be a metric to show much how you’ve played of PvP, and how experienced you are over-all as a result. The various banners that come with rank is a bit of a prestige thing that says “I’ve played me a ton of PvP!”

The addition of our new paid tournaments, and the features that will follow after it will be how we answer that clear question of: “who is the best”. We think it’s important to have both. As we begin our new live releases, starting with Shadow of the Mad King (and the new pvp hero tab and paid tournaments) you’ll see pvp feature additions come very regularly going forward!

All the best and happy n00b stomping,

I don’t want to be the unpleasant guy, but I want to know if you ArenaNet are aware that many people are faming rank points capping a node alternatively with a friend.
While in Guild Wars it wasn’t possible, it is sad that it is happening here because it wastes all the usefulness of rank.

Eduardo.4675:

Sorrow: i havent actually attacked the OP skills, in fact i even advised him to disable the S key, wich is an advice he should consider,however,when u talk thief,see the vid again, watch that fight in the stairs leading to the keep in forest, where he fights a thief, when he dies, the death log shows +10k dmg from… trick shot!!this was only possible coz the thief saw him back pedal, after doing all this dmg, he jumped with heart seeker, wich hit him for +5K and killed him… hadnt he been back pedalling, the thief would never be able to pull this off. Also,those 10k from trick shot were on 13 hits, wich means that the thief was actually unlucky with his dice roll on crits, usually 13 hits from a glass cannon thief would do 13K dmg.

Again, the first part of the video isn’t to show the thieves’ killing capabilities, but the abusing of stealth stomping. Have you listened to what op said in the video?
Why the hell can some professions abuse of stability and/or stealth to have a sure stomp? Why some professions can counter stealth stomps while other ones can’t?

The incredible damage the thief do was shown when he was fighting with the guardian and the thief came, killing him in half a second with 14k damage only from 2 skills. This is far from every balance, considering that power builds on some professions can’t deal that damage also unloading all the skill bar in less than 15-20 seconds, Necros above all.
Did you see the damage the op was doing with the axe? Well, I guess he was running with at least 1800 power to deal that damage.

You guys are missing the aim of the video. It isn’t a showcase of the author’s skills, it just wants to show what’s wrong with PvP and, in my opinion, he succeded.
Obviously there are the same people who says “you are bad”, “learn to dodge”, “your skill is awful” etc, who, statistically, are mostly thieves, guardians or mesmers.
Don’t try to attack the author’s ability but explain why in your opinion it is fair that thieves can pop 13k damage in half a second, why some professions can’t defend themselves from stealth stomp, why mesmers can wipe your skills out for 10 seconds and why guardians have ridiculous defensive capabilities compared to other professions.

Also: Starcraft Forever! :O

Warmage Timeraider.5861:

There are many gw things i miss… Gw1 pvp is not one of them

To me, it is the only thing I miss about GW1. Never played PvE in GW1, always PvPed. Now I’m not enjoying PvP that much in GW2.

No, actually.
The only things that are known about the future of the Necros are 2.

1. Power builds will be made more viable. Probably it was already done by the Blood is Power change.
2. When Necros will master Death Shroud, they will be hugely nerfed.

Somna.5168:

sorrow.2364:

Somna.5168:

Unlike Hex or Polymorph, Moa actually lets you run away, heal yourself, and daze people. You also can’t Moa someone you can’t target, or if you get blinded. And there’s other problems with it too.

Unless you’re one of those people who just stand there indignantly and give up if it gets cast on you.

The only thing wrong with it that a majority of people actually agree on is the instant-toast of Necro minions. But really, that’s more of a necro bug than a Moa issue. :P Really, Moa is a glorified player taunt. Maybe they should add an immunity to snares on it just to drive home the point that Moas don’t just stand there like idiots.

You can’t heal yourself, or, at least, you can’t consider an heal the skill the Moa has. It heals for a max of 2000 hp on an insane casting time, using that skill means you are committing suicide, not healing.

Every skill in this game isn’t 100% sure to land, the fact that Moa is dodgeable, blockable and can miss, means absolutely nothing.

As a Moa, you have all your skills dumped and all your transformations cancelled, plus you are an useless bird for 10 seconds.
If you don’t see the stupidity of that skill, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that Moa Morph shouldn’t be in this game.

I’m pointing out differences between Moa Morph and Hex and Polymorph, abilities from another game.

In the other thread when you brought all this crap up, it turned out you are one of those people who makes up a ton of excuses why you can’t run away, or why you can’t win no matter the circumstances. If you can’t see the stupidity in how you presented your arguments, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that you should let someone who has better debating skills argue about it for you.
Just an example of some of the responses in the thread:

EasymodeX.4062:

1. You claim you were winning the fight, but you didn’t even force the Mesmer to pop Decoy earlier. And you even used your elite prior to that. This means you were losing the fight.

2. You were at the Treb, and you did not LOS around the hill when he Decoy’d.

3. You did not dodge the iD/iWarlock (iD particularly easy to dodge).

4. You did not LOS the iD/iW around the hill.

5. The Mesmer has Decoy and SigDom. The Mesmer used neither during the first phase of the fight where you had a modest HP advantage after using your elite. This means you are an inferior player.

Try again — the Mesmer won’t even have Moa for round 2 since its cooldown is so long.

I’ve gave up arguing with those guys because the thread went to a point that people were stating the same things over and over, doing stupid theorycrafting to justify Moa. I’ve fallen in error while I’ve let the thread going that way, but I’m not doing it again.

Anyway digging up an old topic to answer my statement seems pretty stupid and childish, considering you didn’t answered my post at all. But if you are going to focus your argument about the fact that Moa can be dodged, please, don’t even try.

Boloth.6879:

If certain professions are truly ruining PvP the best thing the community can do at this point is issue a soft-ban against them.

Don’t play them and refuse to play against any team that’s using them.

The best way to get a point across in PvP is to refuse to play.

So you are suggesting to not doing PvP at all. Seems legit.

gmaster.4587:

Daze isn’t an elite only skill with 3min cd. Furthermore most skills which inflict daze are instant casts, hence the countering is preemptive, saving your skill to remove this effect. Moa has a one second cast time and is very distinct, seeing as most mesmers don’t stand still to cast for any other reason, so the countering is reactive. If you do manage to dodge this, well the mesmer is at a disadvantage, he’s wasted an elite when the slot could have been used for something better and more importantly… it lets you know which one is real.

Perhaps you should try playing a mesmer, moa isn’t that great… it’s a one trick skill. The effort it took you to type that message is probably about the same as the effort it would take you to create a mesmer go to heart of mists and cast moa on a golem, so you know what to look for. I don’t even use this skill on my mesmer, there are better ones. xD

Daze isn’t instant cast, I don’t know on what skill you are talking about.
Moa has one second casting time which is quite low, considering that it can be casted while in stealth. I’m playing mesmer at the moment and there are only few cases that I fail to Moa Morph my enemy because most the time I’m casting Moa while stealthed or simply the target has no interrupts to use on me.

The point it that the Moa animation isn’t that obvious, it is rather hidden, not considering that it can be casted while invisible. I feel like cheating when using Moa, seriously. Not to argue about Time Warp, that is another stupidly overpowered skill.

gmaster.4587:

Moa is a stun? If i recall when i’m stunned I can’t run or use skills, other than break stun. That bird can move, peck, scream and move. Yes I wrote move twice.

Learn to dodge it, it’s not really hard, the mesmer stops moving and starts casting.

What is the CC effect that allow you to move, dodge and blah blah blah and can also be cancelled? Oh, yes! It is Daze. What a funny thing that Daze can be actually removed and it is available only for a maximum of 2 seconds in every other skill.
So, if Moa is comparable to Daze which can only be archieved for 2 seconds in a single skill and can be broken, why the hell Moa lasts 10 seconds and is unbreakable?