Guild Wars 2

Can’t do that either, guards might get you. How about a huge empty field, everyone level 1, with no armor. All skills and traits already. one person from each side runs to the middle, hits auto attack and afks. The one still standing after the match is overpowered, gets nerfed and tries again until the three beat each other and either all die at once or never die. Once that happens its balanced and you have won the game. Next!

I had roaming forced side vs side. It was the first to do so. Again, you fast food mmo players are what are making the current and next gen mmo’s bland, unintresting, and down right boring.

SausageStorm.4293:

or maybe it isn’t really a problem and you guys are just over exaggerating.

This this this this this. 24/7 warfare. Got to sPVP is you want Team Fortress. Stop making topics, they will keep locking them. They WANT WvW to be like this. I have plenty of issues with WvW, just read my other posts. This though, is not one of them.

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

Von.2790:

I think we’re just going around in circles at this point folks.

We are, I’m just hoping the dev’s dont listen to them. They want bland and ezmode. That never sustains a game. We want progression and complexity. That DOES sustain a game. The people who would flee if they made the game more complex would never stay after 6months anyway.

And I’m just hoping they won’t listen to you

Add the progression, add the complexity I’m all up for that. But please keep your "we need our time sink skills to carry my scrubkitten things out of this.

And really stop using the DAoC card, I have yet to meet a DAoC player with decent individual skill. (Though most roamers seem to have the group play part down at least)

That’s because most players in DAoC were 8man or small man players. Not solo artists. We knew group dynamics, not fotm instawin invisies. Oh, there were those players too but a large majority were 8man. If you think solo or zerg is anything about skill, I can understand how you think. Neither are skill. Invisies pick the ez targets, and zergs are mindless machines rolling around beating on doors.

Oh, and any game that does a realm vs realm style will be compaired to the game that started it. Sorry your a late gen player.

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

Von.2790:

I think we’re just going around in circles at this point folks.

We are, I’m just hoping the dev’s dont listen to them. They want bland and ezmode. That never sustains a game. We want progression and complexity. That DOES sustain a game. The people who would flee if they made the game more complex would never stay after 6months anyway.

Using the word “complex” doesn’t encompass what you’re arguing for here, though.

Complexity is fine, even desirable. Mechanical advantages over other players is not.

Perhaps it is a slight distinction, but I think it is an important one that could affect your chances of success with the development team.

The issue I believe that you and I are disagreeing about is that you think im asking for the overpowered RR system that DAoC had. I’m not. I’m asking for progression, even if its sideways (ala Champion Levels) or just more talent points. Heck, you could even do a wow thing were at a certain RR you can get certain weapsons that are pvp based, i don’t know. Just something that gives progress forward.

Complexity unfortunately I don’t ever see coming to any new MMO. With WoW setting the bar somewhere around drool on kb to win, we are kinda screwed there.

Von.2790:

I think we’re just going around in circles at this point folks.

We are, I’m just hoping the dev’s dont listen to them. They want bland and ezmode. That never sustains a game. We want progression and complexity. That DOES sustain a game. The people who would flee if they made the game more complex would never stay after 6months anyway.

waeren.9743:

If you want the type of grind you keep mentioning there are still plenty of games around where min/maxing your character takes a significant amount of time.

I really don’t understand the need to whine that this is not the case for gw2. It should have been obvious that it’s not that type of game.

You are thick. It was never a “grind” that’s the point. The previous poster pinned you… Fast Food MMO Player. That’s you. You want it now, and you want it bland. This game has a TON of potential if they decide to work on WvW. If not, it will be swtor in 3 months and another filler wowlite while people who like to think continue to look for a good game.

[edit] The PvE in DAoC was a grind. But the real game didn’t start until you hit 50 and RvRed full time. That’s what this game is. Super fast PvE, and now PvP. Issue? PvP is bland with no progression. But you think its fine because that’s that type of player you are. Sadly, that never sustains a game. Even you will get bored and move on shortly. Let’s hope they don’t listen to the type of player you are or this will be a ghost town.

Stiv.1820:

Daoc vet here. Loved that game. Came to it from UO which in my mind was the perfect MMO in it’s day.

Sadly I don’t think games will be like that again. There is this “fast food” mentality about MMO’s today. Everyone needs stuff and it all has to be FAST. Imagine in this game if you died then had to spawn in your realm and wait 10 minutes on a portal pad to get back to WvW. That wouldn’t fly here but that subtle punishment for death made surviving out in RvR that much sweeter.

I played a stealther(Scout) and getting very deep into the enemy lands solo was something I loved to do. It would sometimes take an hour just to get where I wanted to safely. I did it because it was a ton of fun to kill people in places they hardly expected. Then they would report back to their boarder keep that I was out there and familiar enemies would come out to hunt me down.

I ended up playing Aion with former Daoc enemies. They grew into little online e-friendships. No way that’s even possible anymore with current games.

If they could capture Daoc somehow I would be all for it, but I don’t hold out hope. Our best bet is “World of Darkness” being developed by CCP. You will only get that type of gameplay from a company that can put the game as an “art” above mass player whines.

edit: I should add I’m still having an absolute blast playing Guild Wars 2. Nothing against ANet, they did a great job. It’s actually the closest thing to the Daoc model I’ve seen. It’s just the gaming culture now days doesn’t allow for a Daoc to exist.

Ahh yes, scouts. Shield slam… on a ranged. Nasty. Used to run into Scount a lot soloing on my eld. Loved that guy. Great player. And waiting on the pad before the combined frontier ughh. “I JUST MISSED PORT AHHH” as they slowly, every so slow wander their way back upstairs.

I agree, and fast food MMO is perfect. You are right, most player don’t want the complexity of DAoC. Getting to 50 originally wasn’t easy at all. No pbaoe groups, no focus pull groups, just straight up grind to 50 which took quite a while. Building your suit later on took a while if you wanted perfect min/max. Then put on the right tincs and there ya go. Then craft up a few 100qual lv 5 weapons to put 10 dd charges on it as an interrupt stick. Oh, and if its not a arti, get a few backups because they will eventually break completely and be unrepairable.

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

krakenstar.1674:

tarnin.1690:

MarkyMark.2807:

@jimdove – you were on Excalibur? – that was EU wasn’t it? – I was on that server! – 2001-2004 I think it was

I mentioned in another post that I agree with people saying we shouldn’t just turn GW2 pvp into DAoC pvp, but I don’t see why we can’t take the good ideas and learn from it to make GW2 the ultimate pvp?

I don’t want any extra abilities, etc – like RR5 used to give you effective lvl 51 – and RR10 gave you so many extra abilities it was just too hard for others to compete. But I think titles like ‘Sea of Sorrows OMGIKEELYOU’ rather than ‘Sea of Sorrows Invader’ would be a neat addition that can do no harm and helps give those who want a sense of progression exactly that.

Also think Darkness Falls would be a neat idea – I know Mike has already commented on the possibility of something like that appearing.

I certainly think WvW has a ton of potential, it just needs some tweaking from Anet to make it reach that potential.

Realm Abilities got to be over powered the higher up you went and the more you had. My suggestion is to add Talent Points for RR’s and RR sub dings. So, one talent point for 1.1, when you hit RR2 you get another chooseable ability. If that’s too over powered, how about the Champion Levels they added later? Those were much more of a sideways progression instead of straight up.

I hit 50 on a prince run in DF while fighting off albs who were recently locked out. It was an epic night. Next day I got my epic armor (what do you mean we share the same skin as a a BM! argh!) At the time epic armor was still kinda new so everyone gawked, it was great! Big huge firby in epic armor! Back then they even had resistances to things NOT in the game, were broken, or were way to specific, like Darkness and what not.

Really, I just want some kinda reason to WvW. The world is too small right now to roam and there is really no reason to WvW outside of killing things which will get old soon enough. I like progression in a chracter, this is an RPG after all.

The main issue here is that even if I WvW none stop, and kill 100k people, I will be no better off toon wise than some scrub who ground out tokens in a dungeon and jumped in with 0 kills. * Oh, my skill will be higher, but the toons will be equal. * Makes no sense to me.

That, and you have a tight crew that understands the dynamics of RvR because you’ve been mashing brains while they grind dungeon mobs. How to gauge opponent strength, engagement distance, which skills to dodge, when to chase and when to flee, etc, etc etc, should be enough right there. If you’re still getting rolled by PUG zergs that pop in to have some casual random fun, you’re not as good as you think you are.

With cooldowns, a pug zerg will win 100% of the time unless you run. They will eventually over run you. You can only dodge so much, you can only hit your abilities so often, etc… Cool downs even the playing field, which ANet wants. no matter how good you are a mass of slobbering scrubs will just eventually steamroll over you.

It sounds like you are talking about a situation where you are vastly outnumbered.

I think you should lose in that type of situation. If the numbers are somewhat close to even, I have a strong feeling you are going to inflict some major pain on that pug-zerg, and may even fracture their cohesion.

If the numbers are closer to equal, it isn’t the same situation.

20 very casual players dabbling in W3 vs. 10 W3 veterans who spend nearly everyday fighting for their homeworld

I almost garuntee the 10 vets will win that everytime. Even outnumbered 2:1. Even without any major mechanical advantage.

I hate using DAoC all the time for this but its WvW, you can tell its modeled after RvR, and it has great potential So, in DAoC, your 8man had a chance to kill 100 noob rush. It was possible and I’ve done it. The only limiting factor was endurance for fighters and power for casters. With potions/gems and proper healing, you could just extend the 100 noobs out and cull them over time. Here, because of cool downs you cannot. You CAN kill 2x maybe even 3x doing that but your timers would eventually catch up to you and you will be steam rolled. Simply being able to dodge roll though snares to help with extension is something that kills that entire style of play too.

I just want a more dynamic WvW experience. More customization and more progression even if its slow. Its not like you were hammering out RR’s at RR9+ no matter who you fought. Hell, I’d love more complexity too. This one gem slot is kinda meh.

Oh and capes. I want capes!

krakenstar.1674:

tarnin.1690:

MarkyMark.2807:

@jimdove – you were on Excalibur? – that was EU wasn’t it? – I was on that server! – 2001-2004 I think it was

I mentioned in another post that I agree with people saying we shouldn’t just turn GW2 pvp into DAoC pvp, but I don’t see why we can’t take the good ideas and learn from it to make GW2 the ultimate pvp?

I don’t want any extra abilities, etc – like RR5 used to give you effective lvl 51 – and RR10 gave you so many extra abilities it was just too hard for others to compete. But I think titles like ‘Sea of Sorrows OMGIKEELYOU’ rather than ‘Sea of Sorrows Invader’ would be a neat addition that can do no harm and helps give those who want a sense of progression exactly that.

Also think Darkness Falls would be a neat idea – I know Mike has already commented on the possibility of something like that appearing.

I certainly think WvW has a ton of potential, it just needs some tweaking from Anet to make it reach that potential.

Realm Abilities got to be over powered the higher up you went and the more you had. My suggestion is to add Talent Points for RR’s and RR sub dings. So, one talent point for 1.1, when you hit RR2 you get another chooseable ability. If that’s too over powered, how about the Champion Levels they added later? Those were much more of a sideways progression instead of straight up.

I hit 50 on a prince run in DF while fighting off albs who were recently locked out. It was an epic night. Next day I got my epic armor (what do you mean we share the same skin as a a BM! argh!) At the time epic armor was still kinda new so everyone gawked, it was great! Big huge firby in epic armor! Back then they even had resistances to things NOT in the game, were broken, or were way to specific, like Darkness and what not.

Really, I just want some kinda reason to WvW. The world is too small right now to roam and there is really no reason to WvW outside of killing things which will get old soon enough. I like progression in a chracter, this is an RPG after all.

The main issue here is that even if I WvW none stop, and kill 100k people, I will be no better off toon wise than some scrub who ground out tokens in a dungeon and jumped in with 0 kills. * Oh, my skill will be higher, but the toons will be equal. * Makes no sense to me.

That, and you have a tight crew that understands the dynamics of RvR because you’ve been mashing brains while they grind dungeon mobs. How to gauge opponent strength, engagement distance, which skills to dodge, when to chase and when to flee, etc, etc etc, should be enough right there. If you’re still getting rolled by PUG zergs that pop in to have some casual random fun, you’re not as good as you think you are.

With cooldowns, a pug zerg will win 100% of the time unless you run. They will eventually over run you. You can only dodge so much, you can only hit your abilities so often, etc… Cool downs even the playing field, which ANet wants. no matter how good you are a mass of slobbering scrubs will just eventually steamroll over you.

Sky.9347:

You do gain notoriety, infamy, bragging rights.

When you play a lot of W3, you play with the same people on your team. You get to know one another, and the cream rises to the top.

When you play against a rival server (with a similar rank), you get to know the guilds on that server. Individual names don’t mean anything – guilds do.

I think a lot of you guys are just getting burnt out, and without a constant incentive to play your mind is telling you it’s time to take a break. That might be a new feeling for you, but maybe you should abide by it and just take a break for a while.

I have no idea how or why you would fully max your character out so early in the game. Obviously just a playstyle difference, but I can imagine if I was in your shoes I would be a little burnt out too.

Maybe go play a subscription game and chase a carrot for a while. I predict you’ll be back.

Because its too easy to max out your character. How can you NOT hit 80 and have exotics is beyond me. Maybe ANet only wants casuals? Anyone that isnt a casual is 80 is full exoitcs already and have hit the wall progression wise. If thats what they want thats fine. I don’t run their company and I don’t know their ultimate plan. From what I remember though GW1 was pretty hardcore so this flip in how the game moves isn’t what I expected. maybe they are too concerned with balance?

Again too, you have no perm rivalries which makes it even worse. The servers shuffle and you fight a new set of people. While interesting for about a day, it just goes to a grind because there isn’t that one guild/group/person who you have been trying to beat forever. Having recognition on your own server is an echo chamber, you want recognition from your enemies like “oh crap here comes X’s group, this is gonna be a good fight.” After 2 weeks that’s gone unless you happened to be in the top 4 or 5 servers and contently fight the same people over and over.

Again I will state, many of you are gen3 or 4 players who have no idea what it was like to play gen1 and 2 mmo’s. No more complication, no real depth, and super easy progression. You hit the wall in no time flat.

I can tell you never played DAoC or if you did you didn’t play long. It wasnt mindless. The number of options you had were huge. Group makeup alone would be a different play style completely. How many people in your group would change your play style. I can’t even explain how complex it was and how not mindless it was but seeing as your mentality is coming from the WoW generation you will never get it.

Where do I ever ask for overpowered abilities? I’ve made suggestions to more talent points or even a more sideways progression instead of an up progression. I would just like my toon to grow the more I play it. As it is now, I’m already maxed out. Game is less than a month old and my toon is the best it will ever be unless i grind out a legendary which isnt worth the minimal power increase. How is that fun? The novelity of WvW is already wearing thin and I’m not even talking about the hacks/cheats/exploits. Its the same thing night after night already. The land is way to small so you cant roam, one server always dominates so you are either camped or are camping, and you kill people for no real reason.

Oh and this game is a bastion of no bugs/exploits/hacks and tons of content rite? Oh wait, its not. You bascially just called this game swtor. Stop being a fanboi and actually look at it. There ya go, take a good look. Look 6 months down the road where you are doing the SAME exact thing in WvW as you did today. Same gear. Same Spec. No progression at all. I’d put money on the fact that you will have moved on before that though. Most of you that are the most vocal about keeping it as it is will flee.

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

Yes, yes it is. I posted this in the main DAoC thread but here is the issue. Toon wise, if i kill 100k people and some scrub who ground out dungeons and killed no one jump into WvW, we will be exactly the same… except his armor will look better (pvp armor looks like lv 10 crap). Also, there is really no incentive to WvW with no progression. The server pairing changes so we don’t get to keep rivalries for more than 2 weeks. Killing people for no gain gets old after a while. You can’t even have server pride because of the pairing changes. Even then, pride only takes you so far before boredom and repetition sets in. This IS an RPG, not an FPS you know. If I wanted to play bg’s all day I’d go to WoW or bust out Hat Simulator.

Then ask for better WvW skins?
How about server pride? What does it matter what servers you’re playing against. Not to mention that you’ll most likely see the same servers unless the server’s performance goes way up or down.
If you want to gain an edge over someone who just started the game then I think you should’ve checked out aNet’s ideas a bit better.

But feel free to have fun while playing DAoC, I won’t be trying to change your game into something it’s not.

You really don’t get it. It’s not about “having an edge”. Farming noobs nets you.. well, nothing even in that system. Your points were alocated by how many people hit that person and what RR you were and they were. Fighting 100 noobs would net you crap and would be boring to boot unless it was your 8 man vs 100 of them. Then it would be fun.

That’s another issue here. because of no progression, 100 scrub pvers could jump out of a dungeon with their shines, and just steam roll a few groups of good pvpers because the toons would be completely equal. Something about that is wrong.

You I know are are gen3 or 4 mmo player. Sorry to say but this is when MMOs hit main stream and turned into silver platter games and were dumbed down so my grandmother could play. All the complexity is gone.

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

MarkyMark.2807:

@jimdove – you were on Excalibur? – that was EU wasn’t it? – I was on that server! – 2001-2004 I think it was

I mentioned in another post that I agree with people saying we shouldn’t just turn GW2 pvp into DAoC pvp, but I don’t see why we can’t take the good ideas and learn from it to make GW2 the ultimate pvp?

I don’t want any extra abilities, etc – like RR5 used to give you effective lvl 51 – and RR10 gave you so many extra abilities it was just too hard for others to compete. But I think titles like ‘Sea of Sorrows OMGIKEELYOU’ rather than ‘Sea of Sorrows Invader’ would be a neat addition that can do no harm and helps give those who want a sense of progression exactly that.

Also think Darkness Falls would be a neat idea – I know Mike has already commented on the possibility of something like that appearing.

I certainly think WvW has a ton of potential, it just needs some tweaking from Anet to make it reach that potential.

Realm Abilities got to be over powered the higher up you went and the more you had. My suggestion is to add Talent Points for RR’s and RR sub dings. So, one talent point for 1.1, when you hit RR2 you get another chooseable ability. If that’s too over powered, how about the Champion Levels they added later? Those were much more of a sideways progression instead of straight up.

I hit 50 on a prince run in DF while fighting off albs who were recently locked out. It was an epic night. Next day I got my epic armor (what do you mean we share the same skin as a a BM! argh!) At the time epic armor was still kinda new so everyone gawked, it was great! Big huge firby in epic armor! Back then they even had resistances to things NOT in the game, were broken, or were way to specific, like Darkness and what not.

Really, I just want some kinda reason to WvW. The world is too small right now to roam and there is really no reason to WvW outside of killing things which will get old soon enough. I like progression in a chracter, this is an RPG after all.

The main issue here is that even if I WvW none stop, and kill 100k people, I will be no better off toon wise than some scrub who ground out tokens in a dungeon and jumped in with 0 kills. Oh, my skill will be higher, but the toons will be equal. Makes no sense to me.

So cosmetic/utility gains are not enough for the all-mighty pvp gods from DAoC? Why do people always need to gain an advantage just because they play more?

Luckily gw2 got that part right.

You are so clueless it hurts. In a few months when its a ghost town because its the same ol same ol out in WvW you will probably shake your tiny fists of rage at the players who wanted to, you know, progress in an RPG. There is a reason even DAoC changed how RvR went. The emain tango got old, Realm Points doing nothing go old, and the population was moving away because it got bored. Now, I’m not sure how ANet wants the game to end up, maybe they only want a few servers to look after with a small crew. If thats the case, then perfect. They will have that in a very short period of time.

Most of the PvE content is mind numbing (which is fine, this should be a pvp based game) so it wont keep the WoW players who want super dance dance revolution for pve fights. The sPvP is junk. It’s WoW/WAR bg’s with less players. Big whoop, if I wanted to play that, FPS’s have been doing death match styles and CTF for years and do it better. I came here to play WvW and a lot of other did too. Now, with no progression in WvW it will be dead very shortly. Take a look at swtor… hows that game doing.

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

Yes, yes it is. I posted this in the main DAoC thread but here is the issue. Toon wise, if i kill 100k people and some scrub who ground out dungeons and killed no one jump into WvW, we will be exactly the same… except his armor will look better (pvp armor looks like lv 10 crap). Also, there is really no incentive to WvW with no progression. The server pairing changes so we don’t get to keep rivalries for more than 2 weeks. Killing people for no gain gets old after a while. You can’t even have server pride because of the pairing changes. Even then, pride only takes you so far before boredom and repetition sets in. This IS an RPG, not an FPS you know. If I wanted to play bg’s all day I’d go to WoW or bust out Hat Simulator.

MarkyMark.2807:

@jimdove – you were on Excalibur? – that was EU wasn’t it? – I was on that server! – 2001-2004 I think it was

I mentioned in another post that I agree with people saying we shouldn’t just turn GW2 pvp into DAoC pvp, but I don’t see why we can’t take the good ideas and learn from it to make GW2 the ultimate pvp?

I don’t want any extra abilities, etc – like RR5 used to give you effective lvl 51 – and RR10 gave you so many extra abilities it was just too hard for others to compete. But I think titles like ‘Sea of Sorrows OMGIKEELYOU’ rather than ‘Sea of Sorrows Invader’ would be a neat addition that can do no harm and helps give those who want a sense of progression exactly that.

Also think Darkness Falls would be a neat idea – I know Mike has already commented on the possibility of something like that appearing.

I certainly think WvW has a ton of potential, it just needs some tweaking from Anet to make it reach that potential.

Realm Abilities got to be over powered the higher up you went and the more you had. My suggestion is to add Talent Points for RR’s and RR sub dings. So, one talent point for 1.1, when you hit RR2 you get another chooseable ability. If that’s too over powered, how about the Champion Levels they added later? Those were much more of a sideways progression instead of straight up.

I hit 50 on a prince run in DF while fighting off albs who were recently locked out. It was an epic night. Next day I got my epic armor (what do you mean we share the same skin as a a BM! argh!) At the time epic armor was still kinda new so everyone gawked, it was great! Big huge firby in epic armor! Back then they even had resistances to things NOT in the game, were broken, or were way to specific, like Darkness and what not.

Really, I just want some kinda reason to WvW. The world is too small right now to roam and there is really no reason to WvW outside of killing things which will get old soon enough. I like progression in a chracter, this is an RPG after all.

The main issue here is that even if I WvW none stop, and kill 100k people, I will be no better off toon wise than some scrub who ground out tokens in a dungeon and jumped in with 0 kills. Oh, my skill will be higher, but the toons will be equal. Makes no sense to me.

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

You know you can hit 80 in full exotic without cheating or even trying right? This game hands out 80’s and exotic’s are cheap on Trade or just grind out some karma in Orr where there are constant 300+karma events going on. Its mindnumbingly easy to get both of those. Really, if you don’t have one 80 by now, you are doing it wrong. Even a casual should have an 80. Maybe not exotics but an 80.

exactly right. with no progression in WvW, its a waste. Even your enemies change so there isn’t even a rivalry that can be instilled. This game will be a ghost town in a year and in 6 months wvw will be dead. No one really wants sPVP, if they really did they could do that in WoW or a myriad of other games that do it without all the hacks.

Kazim.2043:

From what you guys describe DAOC seem to have a pretty inferior game play compared to GW2-WvW. Why getting stuck on that out-dated game? Move forward

inferior? lol, not likely. maybe pve side (throw bodies at mob, win!) in pvp? Nope. The suits you built were so complicated they had special calculators to work out how you would build them. Group dynamic was 8man which gave a ton of leeway on how you ran. You could have bomb groups, extend groups, fld groups, etc… RvR was, and will probably always be, the best side vs side based PvP in any game. The issue with it? Too complicated for the noobs of today who are used to WoW handing them everything ezmode. No one wants to bust out a calculator to get every last point in a suit and perfectly min/max their toon. They want it easy, handed to them, and thats it. Look at all the threads in here about “OMG night caps!!!” Give me a break.

DAoC was what every side based PvP game should aspire to be like. Indepth, multiple options, and open field. Wanna 8v8? How about small man (my 3 or 4 man group would roll all night destroying pugs and giving 8mans a good run for their money)? Solo? Zerg? You can do any of those and be a success if you didn’t suck. I used to run 8man, small man, and even solo on a non stealth. In this game? Meh, zerg or die. Not enough room to roam, small mans get mauled by zergs, solos get mauled by zergs. Needs more space.

Also, as long as transfers are available, no one cares about their server? Losing? Copy to winning side! Whoops, new pairing and your losing, copy to winning side again! yaks bend mauled for a week, we got an influx of AR people. We get a new pairing and suck, off they go!

eladox.3457:

It was possible to beat 5-6 rr higher players/groups in daoc if your class/composition is suitable.
LOLOLSMASHNOOBS is an extremely stupid argument.
Stop being bad.

Not only that but if all you did was smash noobs all day your rr’s would crawl up. The points you got were dependent on who you fought. Cull 100 noobs and get like 10 rps. Kill another high RR 8 man and get 1500 a pop for them. People either left DAoC early or were not part of the 8v8 group and just zerged around.

Also, who ever mentioned DF… now THAT would be interesting. Could do a DF or PoC kinda thing. Used to make keeps changes ALL the time when DF was king. Rush to get keeps, then haul into DF before it closed to get your glowies. other realm would go out and get keeps, clear out df, and the cycle started again. TONS of rvr action then and lots of keeps changing hands (old school keeps too with guards tough as nails)

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

Hardest? Lol, try a melee bard, then we’ll talk. I think where was ONE game wide and he was kinda successful. At least you had stealth, insta cc and good get away tools.

the thing most people here don’t get is in this kinda game, if you have nothing to strive for, the novelty of WvW will wear off as “winning” for your server nets… well… nothing what so ever as its swapped out every two weeks. Only the top 5 or 6 servers will really matter as the rest just kinda shuffle around in middle. All these people saying “server pride is enough!” will be gone in 3-6 months or will have transferred to one of the 5 or 6 top servers.

I was going to say “good, that’s how we lost ours” but meh, still crappy. As i said before, there has be no bannings so its become “well we can’t win because they cheat, they are still cheating, may as well cheat myself”.

This is the problem with it. They are not banning for obvious hacks. Flying, noclipping walls, up and robbing the orbs right out of it keep and teleporting to their’s to place it. Because of the no bans, other just think “well I cant win here and they are still cheating, why shouldnt I?”.

Kso.6458:

tarnin.1690:

This op x100. I would pay a monthly fee to have realm ranks. I played for 6+ years before I burned out. Played on the losing side for years (palo hib) as a firby bard. Realm Ranks were a way to improve your toon and gave you a reason to go out and kill other players.

While DAoC was definitaly not the most perfect game (interrupt code anyone?)

Yo! The interrupt code is what makes the game, i always thought. It is its downfall too cause kids from wow and the newer games have nonkitten clue what to do when they have to stand still and position and cant pewpew. Ive been waiting and praying for every new game that comes out to have hard interrupts.

The issue was the code was sloppy. 3 sec interrupt unless you tried to cast during that 3 seconds and sometimes you would end up in perma interrupt. Also, that code is what caused the mass introduction of insta’s and the healer health pool bubbles (forgot the name of it, but the pool of hp that would auto heal the group). Look, I LOVED my machine gun eld with 3 insta debuffs, it was a solo visible machine but lets be honest, my insta’s and interrupt stick (dagger with dd charges) shouldnt be an insta win because I got my interrupt off before the next guy.

I do agree on the positioning though. No one has a clue how to do it, they all run head long or hard bail. No extend groups, no positioning on contact, no re-positioning on a fallen ally or enemy, nothing. Just complete chaos of bg wow players not really understanding open ground basics. I play an ele and I constantly try a slow back peddle while dropping snares and instead of chewing up the idiots who charge though it, everyone else is running like heck at full speed back to some unknown point to turn around and get slaughtered.

This op x100. I would pay a monthly fee to have realm ranks. I played for 6+ years before I burned out. Played on the losing side for years (palo hib) as a firby bard. Realm Ranks were a way to improve your toon and gave you a reason to go out and kill other players.

In this game you wouldn’t even need to add Realm Abilities, just give us a talent point every Realm Rank or sub Realm Rank (eg. at 10.1 you get a talent point, at 11 you could have 10 talent points and another major line ability). This way you are not having to creating new abilities to balance, just balance the ones you have.

While DAoC was definitaly not the most perfect game (interrupt code anyone?) the idea’s of Realm Ranks was brilliant. Also late game crafting was really well balanced and housing was fun but not needed (i loved hunting trophies). TBH even the housing gave you a reason to continue playing as you hunted for cool trophies to have in your house.

R E F L H E X.8413:

I took a look at daoc the other day and had no problem seeing why all the players there were looking for another game.

I wasn’t looking for another game, just a continuation of the previous one.

DAoC is what? 13 years old now? No kidding they are looking for something new. The point still stands that a gen2 mmo could handle 100’s of players in one location and this one chokes.

Darkademic.2603:

The people claiming that DAoC had no issues with large fights are simply wrong, but even if it was true, they are failing to take into account that GW2 requires a far higher number of calculations per character, and that the calculations involved are far more complicated. Cross-profession combos for example mean that every combo field must interact with the potentially hundreds of finishers being executed every few seconds in a large fight. Then you’ve got walls that reflect projectiles back to their source, dodging, active blocking, projectile obstruction etc.

The servers that they make now are also tons better than what it was running. There should be limited server or db lag now. The server should be doing nothing but crunching numbers and talking to the db. I’ll bet the bottle neck is to the db servers trying to dig out information and its why you don’t see rubber banding in large sieges but a ton of spell/ability lag. Now that I write that, i wonder if they are using tcp/ip instead of udp for character placement to cut down on rubber banding but its increasing the overhead.

To the guy who said that DAoC was “slower”. You sir didn’t play for crap then. Tons of insta abilities, ablatives, group heal pools, and spells cast so fast it was faster than the animation (350-400dex caster). In a relic raid i could shoot out 3 instas back to back and start casting all with no lag. This was with a macro on top of it all with .25ms pause between the instas.

This one i actually agree with. DAoC had an auto rel timer so you could corpse spy for a while then that was it, back to your gate. The way it is now you can just leave your dead self in a lord room or in a court yard and relay back defenders, amount of siege, where the siege placement is, etc…

Ruith.5861:

Gigachip.9473:

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair. If you want fair there is sPvP.
WvW is supposed to be 24/7 warfare between the servers.

So what you are saying is that in order to get the Badges of Honor required for various major items, such as Legendary Weapons, we have to stick with the non-competitive server-swap-inducing-by-buying-gems WvW? What a surprise!

The fact that sPvP give absolutely zilch when it comes to rewards that carry through to the rest of the game is because there is very little you can do to BUY SUCCESS.

WvW success, as the game currently stands, can be bought by players with real world money, buying Gems, getting a ton of in game currency and upgrading/sieging etc. That is only required early on in the match, because once the entrenched team has the upper hand with all the orbs and a healthy robust stat advantage, they won’t need to spend much on new upgrades as they wipe the lesser teams so easily. The final key in the business model comes when the losing players decide to buy a server transfer.

It is a business model of a game, nothing more. It is not designed to be a good competition. The winners can buy success. Tell me why I am wrong in a way that stands up to critical argument please.

You just need to go play another game. You have a very dystopian view of this one.

Soba.3041:

Every time I think about the orbs I just shake my head at the game designer who thought this was a good idea. Here’s my baseball analogy:

Team1 has the lead after the first inning so they get 4 outs now instead of 3. Team 1 has the lead after 2 innings so they now get 5 outs instead of 3. Team 1 has the lead after 3 innings so they now get 6 outs instead of 3.

At this point said game designer decided that given any more benefit to Team 1 ,who was not just already winning but pulling away even for some strange reason, that any more buffs to them would imbalance the game to the point that Team 2 & 3 just wouldn’t be able to compete. You think?

I’ve been in some back and forth battles with a server that had all 3 orbs and all I could think was how bad would we be mopping the floor with them in this battle if their guys were dropping that much quicker.

WTF do you think the orbs do? make you gods? Its a few more HP and 150 to each stat if you have all 3. There has to be a reason to WvW and its Orbs. There has to be a reason to WANT the Orb and thats a slight boost in WvW. Man, you people will complain about anything if its not easy huh.

Benjamin.6235:

Jackle.4173:

I have not tried WvWvW yet becuase i have been lvling my character but is there something stopping people from doing this? When you come back to the game and things have been taken why not just take it back. Is that not the point of WvWvW.

The servers with heavy night capping populations don’t have less players during the day. They have at least equal populations during the day that have had their forts upgraded the entire night. You can take back a third or so of the map during the day (remember that you start the day owning absolutely none of it), but that isn’t enough to offset the score especially since whatever you just did gets taken once again during the night. Quite a sisyphean task, don’t you think?

So yup, remove the score. I see no reason for it really. It gives some pve bonuses but just show the bonus bar and dump the score. Really, I know why the score is there (when the servers shuffle for pairing they are using that) but they don’t need to show it. Maybe that would stop most of these complaints. Score means nothing really unless you are a pve fiend in which case WoW is coming out with Kung Fu Panda and will be a better pve experience as this game is PvP based.

Bloodtau.4672:

WVW is pve with players. Nothing more.

Wow… really? Look, I will agree the zerg is pretty predictable but its not scripted encounter predictable. You get enough difference in every zerg/attack that its enjoyable. Also, you can break away with small man and pester stragglers/people rejoining a zerg/running to defend/doing pve.

Tons of options in WvW and if you only see it as PvE, again, you are in the wrong game.

Orbs add a reason to attack/defend the keeps. It also gives you a kinda end objective to WvW. Defend/take the Orb. With out them its just randomly taking keeps/towers/garrison for no real reason.

Gigachip.9473:

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair. If you want fair there is sPvP.
WvW is supposed to be 24/7 warfare between the servers.

100% this. This games WvW really is DAoC2 RvR. WAR tried it but came up short (that and even in DAoC balancing three completely different realms is a nightmare). This is balanced class wise as all servers get the same classes so the “sides” in WvW are even. If you want a fair and competitive match, with no number issues, go sPVP. It’s there, it gives rewards, its very much like WoW’s arena and small man Battlegrounds.

If you want hetic zerging, small mans picking off stragglers/pvers, exention groups eating up zergs, seiging, massive battles and stale mates at keeps, come on out. If not, try sPVP, stay in PVE, or sorry, but this game really is not for you.

Oh and the orbs? Lol the bonus they give is weak. Try dmg bonuses from relics in DAoC that raised the cap not the floor on dmg. The orb bonuses are kinda weak actually imo.

Jackle.4173:

tarnin.1690:

Ill state this again, why is it an issue? Player mentality. Period. If you wake up the next day and everything isnt yours, go get it. All those night guys are now asleep and you are up. Take it back. Don’t look at the score and go “oh screw this” and not queue up.

I have not tried WvWvW yet becuase i have been lvling my character but is there something stopping people from doing this? When you come back to the game and things have been taken why not just take it back. Is that not the point of WvWvW.

I thought so too, but most of these people want it handed to them ezmode style. Too used to WoW making things super simple. They play here and WvW is not arena/battleground (there is sPVP people) and it’s not twister encounters (red hand blue, you win!) so they complain instead of, you know, doing PvP.

Phaedryn.3698:

Sigh…this again.

No. Orbs are fine. ANet should not be making changes to WvWvW to compensate for the players poor attitudes or inability to organize. I cannot believe the attitudes of MMO players these days, it is really depressing to see what the player base has been reduced to.

Have you seen the WoW forums? A lot of those players are here. I actually expected it to be worse. Man, I miss the DAoC forums of players complaining about other PLAYERS and not how the game wasnt ezmode for them. Sigh.

gingertree.5062:

Mara Gossep.2761:

gingertree.5062:

Mara Gossep.2761:

Some people say claiming that matchmaking wont fix the population problems is nothing but speculation.

Claiming that it will is exactly the same kind of speculation.

So far matchmaking hasn’t fixed anything. That is my claim. Untill proven otherwise, this is the reality of here and now. Future speculation is just speculation.

Under the current system, as long as there continues to be worlds with a night presence, and worlds without a night presence, this problem will continue to exist and these worlds are going to play each other eventually even if at the very best they miss each other for a single rotation. This is the reality of the situation whether you want to admit or not, of course there are variables within the system that could change this, but none of these would be anything reasonable or even beneficial for players to consider using, like ‘night-cappers decide to NOT play when they only facing empty forts’ etc etc.

It looks like a fish, and until you give me some extremely good reason/evidence to believe otherwise, you’re welcome to go find some as I would be most interested in having nothing to worry about. My evidence? Reading these forums is a good place to start unless they’re all just silly delusional pessimists or something.

Maybe… your entire life is speculation. Maybe it’s not worth believing anything…

Your entire post is speculation TBH. A speculation about the future is not reality. The reality is here and now, and that is it.

Here, I’ll spell it out for you;
Servers in group X exists, these are night cap servers.
Servers in group Y exists, they are not night cap servers.
Server X and Y are inevitably going to play each other because rankings change, and matchups change.
Problem exists

Do you honestly believe this is speculation? This is borderline written in stone, and it blows my mind to think anyone would suggest otherwise. Please tell me why you believe this isn’t going to happen, preferably a reason that actually has some likelihood of occuring, seriously, I really am interested in knowing.

Reality? That reality exists is an assumption that every single person has to make before we can make assertions about absolutely anything, but this is everyday stuff we’re discussing, not kitten quantum physics. My face is buried in my palms. Reality check.

Ill state this again, why is it an issue? Player mentality. Period. If you wake up the next day and everything isnt yours, go get it. All those night guys are now asleep and you are up. Take it back. Don’t look at the score and go “oh screw this” and not queue up.

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

What is this “merged the servers into clusters” thing?

Once the population in the game started to drop a lot, they merged servers kinda. You would still pve in your own server (like palo or gwen) but the RvR area was combined between first 3 servers, then i think it was 5 or 6. Now its all servers RvR together.

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

I have played both DAoC and WAR. WAR was crap. Face it, it was crappy pve with crappy RVR thrown in. DAoC on the other hand… but I think you are looking back on it with rose colored glasses. Emain loop? MG camping? Crau being rented out by the hibs cuz it changed hands so much? 300 person relic raid with everyone looking at the ground cuz the came couldnt handle all the people in one area. Ram on ram action. Kiting a relic guard clear across your frontier to your zone in because it was unkillable outside of a 200 person zerg.

Look, i LOVED DAoC, played it for 6 straight years before it got stale. WAR, meh. Right now GW2 WvW is more like early day RvR. Lots of sub 50’s running around in a zerg (no battlegroups back then) doing the emain loop and camping the MGs. What we are mostly seeing is a mindless zerg filled with sub 80’s running from tower to tower beating the snot out of each other and maybe having some fun. Most of the stuff you might remember from DAoC probably didnt happen until well after launch, more around the time of SI release. Also, if you are an old school DAoC player, it was the FIRST game to give you that massive zerg on zerg in an MMO so it was new and fresh.