Guild Wars 2

KeikoTerada.1963:

teviko.6049:

what this game gave me was certainly not what I was envisioning, and what it gave me…ultimately drove me away.

And yet here you are.

On the forums..

not in game. .. . .. . …

AcidicVision.5498:

teviko.6049:

You didn’t read my first post. I was ALWAYS inviting players to join me, or ask if they needed help. I was always trying to organize events and get things rolling. I was always talkitive and ALWAYS doing my best (when I saw someone new log in) to say HI when they log in.

My attitude on the forums does not represent who I am in game. IF I say: “Does anyone need help?” And noone replies, and then leave because ‘noone would help them’ is that really my failing??

You can see the roster. If you see someone has been on Forging the Pact for the last hour, do you PM them to see if they are having trouble? If you notice someones craft has been sitting at about 200 for a week or longer do you pm or mail them to see if they hit a snag and need a hand?

Lots of people miss guild chat. You cant just say “Hey lets do this…” and expect 20 people to answer. And a lot of people are hesitant to ask for help. A great many guild SM dungeons, missions, and zone clears have come about from me noticing something on the roster and sending a PM to see how a person is doing.

The game gives you the tools to see how members are doing on an individual level. If you aren’t using them, and just posting a message in /g every half hour or so, then that could be a problem.

maybe they went afk in the middle of their story mode. Maybe they didn’t want to advance crafting anymore because they discovered they didn’t like crafting.

We’ve had one member who has a) asked for help and b) needed help with farming to advance their crafting.

In both cases I came and helped and anytime I got a mat that they needed I gave it to them without asking for recompense. When someone wanted to do dungeons, I was always the first to go: Me! Me!! ME!! I’ll go!! Only to get 3 of us, standing around, asking other members, and then zone hopping to see if we couldn’t fill our group, only to have original member ‘claim’ he was tired and log off less than an hour later.

I busted my behind for my members, and at first (if you read my posts) we didn’t have a required representation requirement. That didn’t come until later, and even before then, people were already not logging in, leaving or simply off doing their own thing.

@Acidic

Your alliance is the perfect example of how it should work. (i.e these members are actually SWITCHING their representation when expected of them…because would you run a dungeon with them 9x a night if they weren’t giving you influence. Ibet a shiney nickle, you wouldn’t)

For the rest of the 90% of the population, it is not working.

AcidicVision.5498:

teviko.6049:

But ultimately, it comes down to that if you don’t represent MY guild, you are not earning MY guild any influence. I don’t benefit you, you don’t benefit me, WHY bother taking up a spot in my guild? As a guild leader, I don’t know who you are, you don’t know who I am, and serves to further the gap between us, especially since, you cannot see chat with my guild so you can’t get to know us, or know when things are going on.

Seems to me your guild might be suffering more from your attitude than from the multi-guild system.

Look at it more this way, being able to join multiple guilds means the guild leaders are more accountable for the satisfaction of their members. As i said before, if you are having trouble keeping members representing or they are joining a second guild and forgetting about you…then maybe you should look at why.

It might have something to do with the “My, My, My” attitude.

Ill reference my previous post again since you never responded…the guy that gives you kitten that doesn’t know you: did you know him? The progress of his alts? If he stalled and needed help on his crafts or story? What role did he fill in groups and did you ever ask him to join one?

See, that’s the thing that separates guilds and leaders that people want to represent from the ones they don’t: You can pm people to tell them they need to represent your guild, per your rules, but how often did you pm that same person for a dungeon run, or karma farming, or any other guild event? I would bet a shiny nickle…never.

A guild leader is accountable to the players. Not the other way around. If your members are leaving or not waving your banner, then its a failing on your part. Not the games.

You didn’t read my first post. I was ALWAYS inviting players to join me, or ask if they needed help. I was always trying to organize events and get things rolling. I was always talkitive and ALWAYS doing my best (when I saw someone new log in) to say HI when they log in.

My attitude on the forums does not represent who I am in game. IF I say: “Does anyone need help?” And noone replies, and then leave because ‘noone would help them’ is that really my failing??

NO, because if they are not representing when I ask, and don’t ask in guild i dunno whom to help. THAT is a failing of the multiple guild system. I put in more of my life’s blood into my guild, only to watch people stop logging in, leave, or simply not represent and go their own way. AND I SAID: I WISH THEM ALL THE BEST. I hold no ill will to THEM, for doing as they feel is best for them.

But I will not hold one member over another simply because they ‘threaten’ to leave if I do not do XXXXXXX for them. That is my point, and that is the ‘power’ the average player can hold over their guilds. If they don’t get the help THEY want, when THEY want it, then they leave. I don’t give two flying figs. Those are not the type of people I wanted anyways.

The type of people I did want, have (mostly) left the game altogether.

So, is that a failing on my part? Or the game?

Considering that more and more people are complaining about the state of the game. I’m gonna put my money on the latter.

KeikoTerada.1963:

JSmooth.7654:

What is end game? I’ll define “end game” as: “What to do when you hit max level.”

I disagree with your definition of end-game.

I go with ArenaNet’s definition of end game instead. Which I find more appropriate. And if I’m brutally honest, I normally either laugh or simply stop reading, the moment anyone mentions “levels”, “levelling”, “level 80” etc in the context of “end game”. My first reaction is to regard such people (unfairly or not) as:

• Brainwashed by “traditional MMO” organ grinders
• Conditioned to expect levels to be important, and in particular to define when “end game” has been reached
• Unable to “learn new tricks” beyond their original conditioning
• Need “progression” once they reach max level (eg. for gear, preferably with lots of grind to complain about)
• No longer capable of having fun in a game: games are instead, jobs to be worked at – to gain top level, gain rarest equipment, tick boxes etc, as fast as (and preferably faster) than their brainwashed brethren.

Either that or simply someone jumping on the “end game” bandwagon – “end game” being the new “immersion” – currently the most fashionable thing to complain about.

“End game” for me, is when I run out of places to go and things to do in the game that I enjoy. It’s that simple, and it’s completely unrelated to levels or gear – such things are of little/no consequence to me.

All I want from A-net is new content every now and then. Which is exactly what they’re planning. And Halloween was a great start. If A-net can’t produce content as fast as I can consume it, no monthly fees means I’ll simply put the game down and come back to it when the next content is released.

Yes, because all us ‘brain-washed’ MMO veteran super stars came to this game thinking it would be same-ol’ same ol’, even after being told it was a ‘new’ MMO with ‘new’ features…

Yes, we came to this game because it promised to be the same as every other MMO out there.

Or maybe because it promised that it wouldn’t???? Not sure on this, I didn’t come to this game expecting things like ‘end-game’ and vertical progression, but what this game gave me was certainly not what I was envisioning, and what it gave me…ultimately drove me away.

Erin.7521:

teviko.6049:

I’m all about praising and rewarding my members, but I am NOT about to give them what they want, when they want it, at the expense of my other members or else they will leave….I won’t do it.

I have to massively agree with this. In fact this is the exact sort of thing I was talking about when I said “The idea of a guild for me is one that suits your needs and you suit theirs.” If the member does not suit you as a guild then that is just as much of an issue as you not suiting them. It is about getting a group of people together that share a common goal and a common purpose.

There are two types of guilds I feel are going to do well in this game. The large zerg guilds which have been mention a lot. But also the often over looked smaller guilds that have clear goals and shared aims. I think this is where adaptation comes in. In other games the multi-disciplinary guild was king, people enjoyed be able to everything in one place. Here I think as people can join more than one many members are going to want to join a selection of more specialist guilds. The small guilds that I have seen who are strong and thriving have all catered to a niche.

teviko.6049:

you find that this system makes it so that if I as the top dog in my guild, the leader, the enforcer of my guild’s ways…doesn’t bend knee and kiss the ground around my members feet to make them stay, they just get up and leave.

This is the other part of adapting I think some guild leaders are missing. It is letting people leave, letting people not represent, not sweating about it as that is a part of this game. It is a different mind set but perhaps it would make you feel less jaded if you did not worry about chasing everyone on your guild list and just spent time playing instead.

teviko.6049:

You are not a guild leader and I almost wish you’d bow out of the conversation…leartn to adapt.

Aside I am sorry if my lack of guild leadership offends you , but after all guilds are not just for the leaders. I honestly believe in a balance discussion members opinion are just as important, especially when talking about changing the entire foundation of the system.

Edit:

It might seem like the multi-guild system isn’t working…simply because it isn’t fleshed out and supported properly. That’s my feeling, anyway.

This is a very good point, I didn’t make the connection when I ready your first post but it could indeed be a factor.

I am NOT offended you are not a guild leader yourself, but I don’t think you understand it from a guild leader’s perspective on the issue. As a guild leader myself, and having tried my best to entice peopel to my guild, grow it internally and tried to keep intrest in my guild.

But ultimately, it comes down to that if you don’t represent MY guild, you are not earning MY guild any influence. I don’t benefit you, you don’t benefit me, WHY bother taking up a spot in my guild? As a guild leader, I don’t know who you are, you don’t know who I am, and serves to further the gap between us, especially since, you cannot see chat with my guild so you can’t get to know us, or know when things are going on.

IF you were earning every guild influence that you were in, I wouldn’t mind, but it would just promote large guild full of…unrepresenting players, but at least they are still earning me influence. I’d be more inclined to allow access to more players.

And as for ‘easing up’ I had one member who had a friend in another guild (even after we said their friend could join us) and we allowed her to not represent us while playing with her friend.

She never represented us again. After a week, we disbanded her, as per our charter.

That is the problem. She never looked in on us, and while we wish her the best, the problem is, they go elsewhere and don’t look back. I’ve fought tooth and claw to hold my own together, and just before the halloween event me and my friend came to the conclusion that this ‘GW2 experiment’ was over. The guild exists, and whenever i log in to check on my members, none are on.

Now, I don’t play, but I still have responsibility to my guild, and I log on once a day to check on my (non-existent) members. But I still check, even if I don’t play.

@Erin.7521

You are not a guild leader and I almost wish you’d bow out of the conversation…leartn to adapt.

As a guild leader myself, I tried adapting. At first, we recruited anyone who said: “Invite me!” we wanted to build a fast player base and then once we hit 50 members we would slow down, weed out those who ’didn’t fit’ and recruit those interested in guild loyalty, even rewarding members who fullfilled a base requirment to sign up on our website.

Within the first week, we didn’t have 50 people and we recruited EVERY DAY (me and my other guild leader) and by a full month later, we finally eeked out 50 people. But a few left, and far too many did not represent. WHen discussed with the guild as a whole, we decided that those who did not represent would be removed.

The problem (AS A GUILD LEADER) is that you advance your guild by having people represent you. The problem is getting people to represent. I am a chatty cathy by nature. I love talking to my guild members. I like watching guild chat scroll by, even if I am not particpating. I do my best (in the limitations of this guild interface) to greet everyone when they log in, say hi and how’s your day…and invite them to do the things I am doing, or see what intrests they have at the time.

More often than not, people have stopped logging in. People did not want to join me in the things I was doing, guild chat diminished, activity diminished, and I tried getting new people to ‘bring in new life’. Yet, outside of a1 or 2 key people, activity remained at an all time low, some people that joined turned around and immediatley represented other guilds, and I was left with a shell of a guild that had activity.

The representation system does more harm than good. For the proverbial guild shopper, its a wonderful system, but instead of the members working and suppoting the guild, out of a sense of loyalty and a desire to advance as a unit, you find that this system makes it so that if I as the top dog in my guild, the leader, the enforcer of my guild’s ways…doesn’t bend knee and kiss the ground around my members feet to make them stay, they just get up and leave.

I’m all about praising and rewarding my members, but I am NOT about to give them what they want, when they want it, at the expense of my other members or else they will leave….I won’t do it.

And that’s exactly the kind of system this guild representation has instiituted.

TL;DR

It’s not about the guild, its about the individual

I understand the guild system….IN THEORY. What the developers intended was a mass infilstructure of guilds, interwoven through the members knowing other members who know other members. That you could represent guild A when doing dungeon runs (because that is what guild A does) and represent guild B when doing WvW (because that is what guild B does) and guild C when you want to run around and do map completions, because that is what they do.

It’s beautiful in concept. Except the DEVs forgot one thing.

The HUMAN element.

If you set up a system where guild loyalty is not a factor, then there is no guild loyalty. Why does there need to be?? You get booted from one, you go onto the next. If guild A has few members and hardly any of them speak, then you can always go to guild B that has 500 members, and only 7 of them speak, but its more social, because one guild talks and the other doesn’t.

This doesn’t promote helping one guild at all. This only promotes the larger guilds, who already HAVE all the upgrades and influence they could stand, and still…the lesser guilds struggle to get members, because they have to force themselves to recruit just anyone in hopes of getting members, and all the while, the new people see the lack of..representing members, or lack of people, and ‘shop around’ for a new guild.

The system doesn’t work.

Plain and simple.

True story

I once jumped up to a vista in WvW next to a JQ guy. We both jumped up and got the vista. Then, when our views were done we turned and looked at each other and for a second, I thought he was going to let me go. Then as I turned to leave…

well, anyways, I thanked him for letting me get the vista BEFORE he killed me. Was decent of him.

Sucks, but people grief the WvW puzzle because of lemmings like….because people will keep going after the achievement, even knowing someone is up there firing arrows down at you.

You can, you know, always go elsewhere…

Veteran Jellyfish\

I just don’t think they get any love…

Kasoon.3758:

liandral.3275:

Aww come on guys, have a bit of heart…

Is it really so hard for ANet to place a warning on the transfer screen?

Really?

Sure it is in the wiki and yes, it would have helped to have read that first, but a simple message added to the transfer screen isnt that difficult to code in and would certainly have avoided this stress on the players.

It’s really more about their knee jerk blame of Anet and them not even bothering to look up if it can be reversed.

Why would they have thought otherwise??

You know, they probably haven’t been playing since release and seen the outraged that this caused a few months back. And without a warning on the screen prior to transfer, then why would they be prepared to lose anything?? Why would they have had reason to think this??

The error does lie with A.Net. A simple message could be implemented, juts a box to explain their policy.

The players have a right to be outraged. But in 7 days, they can FREELY move back to their old world and their old progress. However, if you have to start paying gems for transfers, I’d be a tad more sympathetic, but currently, they can wait 6 days and go back. For FREE…no less.

NO!

THis game has very little meaning when it comes to characters. If you want to so badly, delete the guy you don’t want and remake as a character. Just put your money and any un-soulbound items into the bank and re-roll.

Congrats, you just changed your class/race or both.

Corian.4068:

Darlantan.5638:

The problem is it has endgame whether they want to coin it or not. The game doesn’t have very many different things or paths to do. It’s basically level to 80, level the worthless crafting system to max, grind some dungeons perhaps and explore. All of which can be done relatively quickly. After that you’re stuck with two options WvW or work on a legendary.

But the problem is you cannot set your own adventure in this game the paths are literally chosen and once you hit 80 there really isn’t a drive to continue playing, especially if you’re not interesting in a legendary or WvW. GW2 is essentially a theme-park MMO which means it has end game because you’re limited to the things you can do upon turning 80.

You don’t want “endgame”, you want progression. Which, don’t get me wrong, is a perfectly valid thing to want, but even back to GW1 the game was never about increasing your power.

The focus has always been on the gameplay. Which is precisely why I want Arenanet to publicly dismiss the term “endgame”, so that people stop coming to this game expecting gear ladders to climb.

Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to pretend anyone with a business is going to say, “hey, your idea of turning a bunch of customers away is GREAT!”, but there has to be a way to get across to generic_subscription_MMO_addict_01 that this game is actually about the game, and not about making one’s numbers higher on a dps chart. There has to be a way to change their perception and their expectations, instead of the “we’re looking into that and we appreciate your feedback” spiel that’s going to happen forever if nothing does change.

In GW1 it was ALWAYS about increasing your power. Every new skill you obtained increased your power. Why?? Because certain builds with a key skill, or several key skills engineered and played toward your style was powerful.

As an Ele, I played a Point Blank Bomber build, nice to sneak up on mesmers with, or stomp those warriors with. Not everyone could play this style, and worked for me, because in my hands, it was powerful. But not so in everyone else’s.

Power was always a factor, it was how you obtained that power that was more in tune with a horizontal porgression than this current model.

Greyfeld.7104:

teviko.6049:

mulch.2586:

I think a big difference between open-world zergable targets and instanced encounters which can be tuned to 5-member groups.

The open-world bosses tend to be especially simplistic, and I can give ANet a pass on that, because if they required skill, timing, or strategy, the player base would complain.

And yet the player base IS complaining, because they are too easy, have too many Hps and are woefully boring.

It didn’t take long for people to figure the mechanics of the dragon fights, or for fighting any ‘certain’ type of challenging encounter out there. People will figure it out, EN MASSE and once figured out, at least it would be interesting, instead of a 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 fight.

I can think of teh champion risen abomination as a prime example, of where one person in a sea of dozens gets aggro and spends the next 15 minutes uselessly kiting in a circle, hopefully skillfully enough NOT to reset the mob while the other dozen or so wail on it for 15 minutes. No skill, no need to move, I don’t worry if someone else has aggro, BECAUSE HE GETS IT FOR THE WHILE FIGHT!!!!!!! I just stand there and hit it with 1 until its HPs finally swindle away and I claim my (oh goodie) gold medal and 2s15c reward. The excitement just sizzles through my body.

And were supposed to swallow this as ‘fun’???

lol I have my 1 set to auto-attack. One time, during that fight, I set my auto-attack, went to take a piss, got a sandwich, and came back when the mob had about 25% health left xD

laughs

yup, sounds about right.

As for AC, after the ‘initial’ shock of the dungeon wore off, and the seething rage of kitten fury I had during Khol…the dungeon was wholly uninspiring. I thought the trap fight was…interesting, but after a few attempted tries, it was far easier to go down there and AE nuke the swarm ourselves.

The cannon fight,. would have been difficult, except that we alreay know the heirarchy of which mobs to kill, and it was just a matter of FF and taking tehm out.

What bothered me is that dungeons were supposed to be FUN to explore. There is no exploration, there is a set path that you follow because some NPC says so.

Not the sort of exploration that I was looking forward to.

Long boss fights…I’ve had enough Imperial Devastator War Golem, thank you very much….

Mr International.3715:

One thing, and I’m not sure if it is this way later in the game, is that you shouldn’t just be fighting a boss. The mines of moria scene in the fellowship of the ring movie is the perfect example of a dungeon in my opinion. You’ve got lots of weakittentle monsters you have to keep from overwhelming you while you try to take down the really powerful boss. This way it has to be more coordinated, rather than everyone spamming the boss as hard as they can and occasionally avoiding his area attacks

Lol, you didn’t play the game and do the raids there…

But I get what you mean.

If you want that experience…just go to Orr. there is enough ‘weakling’ mobs between every point that it shoudl satisfy this….requirement.

mulch.2586:

I think a big difference between open-world zergable targets and instanced encounters which can be tuned to 5-member groups.

The open-world bosses tend to be especially simplistic, and I can give ANet a pass on that, because if they required skill, timing, or strategy, the player base would complain.

And yet the player base IS complaining, because they are too easy, have too many Hps and are woefully boring.

It didn’t take long for people to figure the mechanics of the dragon fights, or for fighting any ‘certain’ type of challenging encounter out there. People will figure it out, EN MASSE and once figured out, at least it would be interesting, instead of a 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 fight.

I can think of teh champion risen abomination as a prime example, of where one person in a sea of dozens gets aggro and spends the next 15 minutes uselessly kiting in a circle, hopefully skillfully enough NOT to reset the mob while the other dozen or so wail on it for 15 minutes. No skill, no need to move, I don’t worry if someone else has aggro, BECAUSE HE GETS IT FOR THE WHILE FIGHT!!!!!!! I just stand there and hit it with 1 until its HPs finally swindle away and I claim my (oh goodie) gold medal and 2s15c reward. The excitement just sizzles through my body.

And were supposed to swallow this as ‘fun’???

Aga.8641:

teviko.6049:

ust saying, everytime a mesemr used portal and got smashed in the face as soon as he ported, a lot less of this would happen (assumimg, of course, you can get to the exit portal because its not behind a door or gate).

What’s to stop the mesmer just casually going back through the portal?

He can, if he wants to get jumped on the opposite side…he probably portaled because there was a few too many on the other side, or was checking on the node he just left. Either way, ifyou make him run, the node is yours, until he comes back or he comes back with buddies.

Portals don’t last forever.

@Knote:

This is what GW2 considers fun.

As for me, this just sums everything that is wrong with SoD, CS and ML, which many consider to be ‘end game’.

maybe use it as advantageously as the mesmers do??

If you know where the exit portal is…camp it and kill the first thing that comes out of it???

I’m just saying, everytime a mesemr used portal and got smashed in the face as soon as he ported, a lot less of this would happen (assumimg, of course, you can get to the exit portal because its not behind a door or gate).

I think an interesting idea (to expand upon Lyssa) is having one person who needs to DPS down some ‘special’ mob, or orb, (or statue) that directly coorelates to the bosses strengths.

At 100% the mob has regen, protection, fury, might…yadda yadda, and the group needs to keep the boss engaged while one person wails on the orb/statue/mob. With other adds and addendum, you couldn’t just leave 1 person to ‘kite’ the boss while the rest of teh group soloed the statue in order to down it faster and debuff the boss.

Or, even better, you could have it randomly teleport one person to the statue, and every 10% or so( maybe 25%) it poofs the person DPS’ing the statue back into the arena with the boss and sends another person up there.

Just..thinking.

‘End-Game’ debate.

GW2 stated that players should play this game because its fun, and I would whole-heartedly agree with that, except they missed the mark on too many things. I will stay strictly in the bounds of PvE here, since WvW and even PvP are totally different mechanics.

The problem with their ‘design’ model, as someone pointed out, is that this game has NO END-GAME, or, in better words to use, all content should be treated as ‘end-game’ that level 1-17 is everybit as ‘challenging and engaging’ as level 70-80 content.

If this were the case, why do we have levels in the first place? Levels indicate VERTICAL progression. Level 1 -2 is a VERTICAL progression. Your stats increase, your viability increases, and ‘more’ in the way of skills and content you can ‘play around in’ increases.

This is perhaps the single most…infuriating thing A.Net has done in regards to ‘throwing out the same-old tired forumla’ was that they left it in. If this game is meant to be a truly horizontal (only skill matters) then you should start at level 80 (or have no levels at all) and your ‘improvement’ in your skill and functionality should be in the form of getting skill points to unlock your skills, trait points to change your traits around so your more viable.

THAT would be horizontal, since your skill alone determines your success, but skills change your style of play. However, as someone pointed out, if you don’t have ‘levels’ then you have nothing to look forward to!!

Well, that is the case many people are discovering in regards to Orr and the ‘end of the line’ since you can’t really go further than Orr atm. There are no skills to chase. By 80m you’ve unlocked it all, you have all your trait points and probably have a viable build that you can get through any area with, and you’ve run the dungeons, gotten zone completion on many (if not all) zones, have dabbled in WvW, sPvP/tPvP and a slew of other things, and soon, you find that doing XXX again, makes you sick…because tehre is nothing to chase, so you as the player must INVENT ways (or ideas) to entice you to find something to do in the game.

If horizontal leveling is the way it is to be, then cutting out the level 1-80 idea would be a monumental idea in the right direction.

Otherwise, a need to have ‘stuff’ to chase other than uninspiring dungeon costumes.

Lani.1429:

Right and all those Dye’s are from Cursed shore, which are at least 80% either Commen or Uncommen, nice try though.

you can take the blues and pop them into the mystic forge and hope to get greens.

You can take the greens and pop them in the mystic forge and hope to get yellows. You can take any non-hot selling item and pop it into the mystic forge and get another yellow. I ‘have’ gotten a black and a white dye this way.

I tested this by buying 1g worth of dyes and opening then in rapid order. My first try I got a white and a black, and had more than my fair share of my money back.

Since, I’ve clicked all the blues and green (except gold) that I don’t have, as well as many of the yellows, except the celestial, white, black abyss and midnight ice??? There is one that is pretty close to black that sells for as much as black as well.

Try it, with only a gold (around 25-30) and test your results. And if it doesn’t work for you, you’ve only lost a gold. If it works, you’ll have made a fortune. I would say it works 4/10 times…but in that 4/10 times…you’ll hit a jackpot nice enough that you’ll have made your money back and more.

I was lucky on my first go

Buy up 100 unidentified dyes, and then open them all up

Sell all the abyss, black, white, gold, celestial dyes.

= profit

I went from 3g to 20g in under 2 days.

If you think this is a pump and dump, I swear by all that is (not the holy trinity) that this works. ANd i have nothing to gain from it. I don’t have dyes up for sale, nor am I driving the prices down to buy.

THis is what `I’ did to make money, and it worked extremely well for me.

@Natural

It doesn’t feel legendary to have a skin that has no benefit over that weapon your currently weilding? After all, that’s cool to sink 100’s of gold in this game, right?

Feeling legendary??

/sarcasm off.

Legendary is anything but. kkthxbye.

Algreg.3629:

@teviko: you are reiterating over and over again how you love roles and other types of games – and you actually went to play those games again. Which is perfectly fine. But what you are doing here is antagonizing anyone who does not share your opinion on games apparently for the sheer sake of it and hijacking a thread that had been rather neat and informative. Congratulations.

I said, in one of my posts, that I put this post here because the threads would either get merged, or one would get deleted due to..repetativeness.

Yes, I have made my post clear, and when I asked what the OP was suggesting, all he did was yell at me.

I am just not sure what he is ‘calling’ for, and when asked, all ‘he’ is doing is saying the same thing about how he doesn’t want a holy trinity, but he wants roles to be…defined? I’m just not sure, it seems he is not suggesting anything, other than something to denote the current players’ deemed position at any given time.

It works for his guild, which is great, not too many run guilds or jump in other people’s vents to coordinate.

I’m just not so sure what it is he is suggesting to achieve.

As for my ‘suggestion’ it is open for discussion. No one is discussing it. People are using it as a platform to ‘rail’ against the Holy trinity without taking the time to read the discussion and perhaps think it over.

People are just: “I hate the holy trinity….NEXT!”

BrunoBRS.5178:

teviko.6049:

Ah…I see a little more where you are coming from.

I like skill, I strive to be better and better with each pass until everything is innate. I achieved that very early on with my mesmer.

However, I like filling roles. I like being a cleric in XX game, or a sorc in XX game, or a tank in XX game. If me and my friends play DPS, then we will find someone who is happy enough to play the tank/healer that we lack. For us, it sthe socialization aspect.

there’s room for both kinds of games, just not within the same game. like i said, if you like the trinity, there are plenty of games that use it as the foundation of the combat.

it’s just that GW2 is not one of them, and trying to restructure it to become one would break PvP, WvW, dungeons, and overall PvE in one swoop, as all of that has been designed with the “no trinity” idea in mind.

To which I have gone and done. I play another game currently, and the balance with classes is so well achieved, its..well, engaging. I can’t be happier with the game i currently play.

I know GW2 isn’t one of them, but again, what I listed is what my vision of how they were going to accomplish “anyone can fill anyone elses role”. I didn’t hear, until much,much,much later that there was no holy trinity, or at least, it was explained to me that: anyone could tank, anyone could DPS, anyone could heal, anyone could support, thus eliminating the ‘need’ for the holy trinity. (Not that there would BE NO holy trinity) In otherwords, you don’t need a warrior, a monk and a thief as the foundation of your group. (I know monks don’t exist)

From my perspective, GW2 did not achieve this. The only role that is #1 is DPS.

OP:

I dunno what you are suggesting???

Are you saying you want ‘icons’ for what is happening in combat?

i.e…if you are the ‘drawer’ (silly name for the current target of the mob) you want some sort of drawer icon to pop over their head so everyone knows that now <soandso> is now it, while one person gets a handy wrench above his head for being the aid man, and the rest get knives pointing to someone’s back as flankers?

RIght now, the game is pretty much set up, like this. What are you suggesting? If someone is getting hit, they probably run around with their head cut off until they get downed, the others will be doing as much damage in whatever capacity they can, and if anyone goes down, whoever is rezzing them kinda full-fills the ‘aid-man’ capacity. We’ll call it combat medic for now…

I’m just not sure what this suggestion is trying to…suggest

Ah…I see a little more where you are coming from.

I like skill, I strive to be better and better with each pass until everything is innate. I achieved that very early on with my mesmer.

However, I like filling roles. I like being a cleric in XX game, or a sorc in XX game, or a tank in XX game. If me and my friends play DPS, then we will find someone who is happy enough to play the tank/healer that we lack. For us, it sthe socialization aspect.

BrunoBRS.5178:

the primary selling point of the combat is “there are no roles, everyone is self sufficient, and cooperation comes from being efficient and versatile, not depending on two other guys to handle half the job for you”.

you clearly missed that point.

also your posts are getting longer and longer. word of advice: people on the internet don’t like reading long walls of text. make it short and concise if you expect people to read your posts.

If everyone is self sufficient, what is the point of an MMO?

WHy even allow hundreds/thousands of other players on my server if I am going to take my ball and play in my own little world all by myself?

Kinda self defeating.

Noted, will try to be more…punctual.

mulch.2586:

I don’t think I care for your idea of a game, teviko. It sounds a lot like Rift, where there are roles.

What I like about GW2 is I’m never doing only one role.

Again – my guardian gets survivability by defense and proactive self-healing. Not enough to eat big hits, but enough to go toe-to-toe with position, blinds, blocks, and dodges.

How do I heal myself? Well, I do it by giving boons to allies.

How do I give boons to allies? Every time I do critical damage, I give ’em a stack of might.

So right there in one swing, I’m absorbing or avoiding damage, supporting my group, healing myself, and doing damage. Not switching from role to role, but doing all 4 roles in one swing. If you’re ever in a dungeon group and only doing one role, you suck.

Guardian or warrior, the two professed most balanced classes in the game.
Sorry, other roles ’can’t perform all 4 roles with one swing, wish we could. And again, with one swing (1 I assume) you are still contributing to the ’spam 1 mentality).

I played a mesmer from the ground up, learned things from others along the way, and from my own trial and error, I know quite a bit about ‘roles’ and what I can, cannot do, and what I should be doing to help out my team.

As I’ve stated before, a mesmer cannot heal, I can bring support to my team, that, as you said, retroactively heal them. I don’t count granting an ally a boon, but if youi think so…coolio for you. IN that case, mesmers, next to guardians, are queens of the stone age. All of our skills are duality, they grant bonuses to either myself or allies (or both) while simutaneously granting a condition to a foe. But, all in all, that is a supportive role, not a healing one. Only on the luck chaos storms (or traited clones) can a mesmer be considered a ‘healer’ even in a limited capacity.

A mesmer can’t even take a hit, that’s why we have veil, mass invis, and decoy. All designed so you can move away from that thing, or pass the buck, so…we can’t even be considered a tank, unless you count the boss/mob, one shotting our clone as ‘tanking’.

And dps…even the best geared, hardest hitting mesmer doing DPS (completely ignoring the duality nature of buffing/debuffing) still plays second fiddle to every other class out there. With slow up time, and hard to maintain hitting power, a mesmer sucks in any other capacity, other than support. And in ‘fast’ dungeon roles, mesmers are passed over for other, choicer classes.

So, I miss your point on how this unique and amazing combat system changes the ‘gaming as we know it’ when all too many times, classes are still ‘pigeon holed’ into ‘roles as we understand them’.

And as for rift, you had to spec into those traits, and ‘chance roles’ between pre-selected trait trees. This new methodology would have stances, rather than roles, that granted your mace a different unique set of abilities depending on whatever role you full filled at that time.

This kinda accomplished a few other things as well:

1) I’ve seen posts about people wanting new skills (or new and varying weapons). In a way, having 5 new abilities tied to each weapon, depending on a stance would full fill this.

2) adds the holy trinity, without having to ‘change the entire scope of the game’. Believe me, what I see in my mind does not throw the old system out and replace it with a new system. It just adds to the unique system already in place.

3) With this, people could try truly unique builds and discover a new potential within the game. You don’t ‘have to be a warrior tank. You don’t have to be the support mesmer, you don’t have to be the healing guardian, but you can be, and you can decide to perform one of these roles better than others, or be the jack of all trades in your given selection.

Nothing has to be ‘Holy Trinity’ as people think of it, it would just people filling a particular need, at that time, until someone else takes a stab at it.

Primary selling points? All I heard was, when i bought the game, was that Everyone could perform anyone elses role.

That has proven to be extremely untrue.

I can handle myself in a dungeon, I have to many a degree, and oftentimes was the one that figured out the trick to a fight when going in with all green players. Sometimes I would be shown a trick or two myself when ‘seasoned’ players would take us through, but as for candy rides???

In no MMO I’ve ever played in have I ever rode on the skirt-tails of others.

And I have never ONCE played WoW. I hate that game, HATE HATE HATE with an ever living passion, because if you ever dislike something about a game, the reply is always: “Go back to WoW. Oh, you’re a wow-baby, go back to WoW…” WoW, WoW, WoW, how I loathe thee.

GW promised to be a next gen game by ‘re-inventing the wheel’ as it were. We were supposed to have in game persistent , player driven areas, with events that spawned when certain conditions arose that would make the game play unique everytime yoiu played it.

Yet, the dynamic events are all the same, static content that is both predictable and almost (not entirely) impossible to lose. If I do it with one character, and bring another along (another race, map completion, whatever..) its ALL the same. Nothing my hero did before reflects upon the world now.

Nothing A.Net has promised has come to pass, except for no vertical gear progression. But your mistaken if you t hink there is no grind. How else are you to get your legendary?

Buy it? With what?? The money yoiu grind?

Mats? How do you get those? Money you get from grinding? or grinding the mats.

I get people dislike the holy trinity, but they dislike it because (from what I am hearing) is because you have to rely upon others for your own effectiveness?? Uhm, don’t you have to do that in dungeons? WHat else is the point of an MMO other than to ‘react’ with other people and feed off them and in turn, them feed off you???

That is why the solo oriented person feels at home. He doesn’t have to rely on another person to spam 1, or feel like he sucks at contributing to a large scale event, becaus ethat medal pops up and tells him he got a GOLD STAR for spamming 1.

You know, I can hit Jormag once, walk away 20 minutes and then come back and claim my medal and chest for ‘doing my best!’ Doesn’t mean I earned it, and if that is what holy trinity is, please…keep it.

I’d rather find something…challenging’ and conquer it.

What I suggested would have brought a unique depth to this game without altering it, but adjusting the difficulty of the mobs (basically trash would hit at normal speed, rather than this 1.5 the normal player attack rate) and would ‘force you’ gasp to perform better in a solo manner, as well as being better when your around other people.

So, what you are saying is that I can’t post a suggestion on what I felt was a design idea (not something that HAS TO BE implemented) because you don’t like it…

But you like the way it is now, so I am not allowed to make my suggestions, SUGGESTIONS mind you, all because you don’t like it.

While I don’t like the way it is now, and would like to add my voice to a growing people who have also realized that maybe ‘this way’ wasn’t as great as it was originally hyped up to be, all because it doesn’t mesh with your idea of the game (which just happens to co-incide with the way it is now).

Sorry, but it doesn’t work the way it is now, or else these threads would not be on the rise. Only reason I didn’t make a new post in regards to this very topic is because there was already a topic on page and it wouldn’t probably get merged anyways.

I am not telling A.Net to throw away their combat, you read as far as…holy trinity, slammed on your breaks, and yelled at us for having the nerve to make a suggestion, without even looking at these suggestions.

I had, what I felt, was a lovely idea for a combat system that would fit in the flow of this game, yet introduce a psuedo trinity system that people would not be completely opposed to, but you, along with some unnamed others, just read HOLY TRINITY and rant and rave without understanding.

Gee, I thought what I was doing was adding a suggestion.

Sure, some redesign would be required, mainly on the mob parts, and on the players to adjust to their new…abilities.

Maybe there is a reason there is an out-cropping of people saying: “lack of a holy trinity…this game needs!” ?? Maybe, just maybe, there are flaws with having a massive free-for-all zerg “1” spamming fest? (whispers I’m sure there is a class that got nerfed because spamming 1 isn’t supposed to be fun game play according to A.Net)

Changes can be made that won’t involve adding this abhorent holy trinity, you so despise, but in reference to this thread, you have made no siginifacnt contributions. My idea adds a way that still has the same mechanisms in place (weapon sets, swapping, and adding stances that would ultimately add new skills for people to have)

WHatever threads you deem to be good may not be good to others. You are not the judge of what is good or not. you can have your opinion of what is good, but it doesn’t reflect everyone else’s opinions.

WHy doesn’t a holy trinity fit, in your opinion, other than you just don’t like it. I swear, I need to know why a holy trinity is such ‘bad news’ for this game.

I didn’t like the shortbow to begin with.

I fell in love with it on my own, not because somebody killed me with one and I jumped on the SB bandwagon. In fact, I didn’t like SB so much I have an axe/warhorn build forever, and then they nerfed bleeds. WHY!

So, again, I found something interesting, and I was probably NOT the first to discover the SB/QZ combo, but I certainly didn’t see it too often until right before the ‘nerf’. But even then, I had moved onto a trap build (thanks her lucky star that traps weren’t nerfed) and then onto this power build.

I use the SB, because, for me, the utility is signiture for how I like to play. Built right, I have the ability to evade attacks before I have to resort to dodges. And played even better, I can blow a dodge or two, then use LR reflexes to regen my endurence and then promptly follow it with SB 3 and maybe another dodge or two. I’ve routinely played games where I’ve pulled 2-3 people off a point and survived longer than they would like, all because I could do damage and dodge like a champ. My average time to live (with all CDs) is 42 secs. That’s a long time to keep an opposing team engaged…

But argh..I digressed…

Here’s looking forward to positive changes to rangers!!

I am not telling anyone to go play another game.

I suggested, to one person, that judging by the type of play he described as ‘fun’ that a single player is more inline with his play style.

I went to another game, because these ‘core faults’ as you put it was enough, eventually to make me go away. But the idea I put forth was what I had envisioned when I first saw an interview about this game, and they said that" ’anyone can perform any role".

I wanted to share my view, of what I saw, and based it around the mechanics already in game. I read the OP and he’s ideas were almost the same, albeit different. The point is, comment on why it is not a good idea (not just ‘I don’t like holy trinity, so you suck’ ) post, or why it could be a bad idea…ie. any exploits that this could cause.

A.Net nerfed rangers because apparently, spamming “1” is not fun for them, but with the games’ current viability, that all that is ever done, it’s what they wanted to avoid, but its all they did to promote. You can throw is a 2, 3, 4, 5 for fun, if your feeling squirrely, but in the end, the most used button always comes back to 1.

What I have mentioned would make 1-5 extraneous long CD’s so that eventually, you have no more actions to take as ‘that role’ and must swap out with another player to allow your CD’s to reset, but still contribute to the group by full filling a healing/support/DPS role until those CDs are either blown, or another swap occurs.

This in no way ‘full fills’ a true holy trinity, but it also keeps A.Net’s word on any class can perform any role.

(and believe me, mesmers CANNOT heal..not even remotely, not even if they TRIED, about the best you can get is that phantasms grant regeneration to allies…and you have to hope they live long enough to do that, because you just aren’t gonna do it with mantras, trust me I TRIED).

nldixon.8514:

teviko.6049:

@nldixon

Yes, the over-moderation is…a tad bit daunting, especially when you get ‘kittened’ for saying: Abolish___it

because the ‘sh’ even with a space between the ‘it’ is still a no-no.

The fact that the moderators aggressively lock down some posts while others derail into spiteful flames wars (as long as the original post was a positive in GW2’s direction) means they know their game is in trouble and are locking it down.

I remember when you could enjoy conversing on a forums about the state of a game, both good and bad, so long as people could hold a civil tongue, and if one person couldn’t the post itself would be minimized (you could still read it if you liked) and the person infracted, but the conversation was allowed to continue.

The over-moderation tells me that either the forum moderators have never moderated the game, or that they are doing so in order to silence discontent players so that ‘new’ people will feel that the game is in good order.

It’s immature way to police a forums.

Actually, most of my posts that received infractions were pro-Ranger posts and I never once disparaged ANet or the Ranger class in any of them. I honestly think that the over moderation is more from a lack of experience than anything else. Or possibly an automated moderation system that is/was broken. It’s been a lot better lately.

I don’t feel like ANet is trying to silence discontented players. It seems more like they’re trying (too hard) to keep people from arguing on the forums, civilly or otherwise.

A discussion is usually two people who do not agree, trying to make the other see your point of view. They can be on opposite terms on a subject, or equal. Its ok to have ‘arguments’ as long as they are civil and don’t devolve into a out-right hissy fit.

The point is, it needs to be done civially, and oftentimes is. It happens, again that two people go back to back, and the original intent of the post is derailed, and THEN having a moderator come in and infract the two, or move the post, or get it back on topic needs to be handled, but usually a word of warning like: “please keep this post on topic and move your squabbling to private channels” is usually enough for people to move past thier debacle, or move it into private channels.

I am pro-ranger, but my faith in A.Net is wavering. I feel lied and cheated to, and I watched the ranger, the ONLY class I feel comfortable PvP’ing with, get trashed in every BWE and nerfed again and again upon release just leaves me feeling like…A.Net wants only one class…warriors. Mesmers have recieved nerfs, necro’s haven’t been fixed, warriors have recieved buffs, and thieves are just so broken that they could nerf it endlessly and they would still be too OP.

Yet, they refuse to fix the rangers, and have nerfed us, and broken us further. Yes, we can compete, yes we can do damage, yes can can but we can’t to the extent that other players can. We don’t shine in PvE (unless your a bot) and we don’t shine in PvP. We are a lack luster class and anytime we find a way to be effective, it justgets nerfed.

It’s depressing.

Even so, I still have a multiude of builds and I have helped out the ranger community, and have recieved several feedbacks about my power builds 30/0/10/30/0 build. It’s a fantastic build, aimed to help rangers, and is highly adaptable (as one replier showed me). The point is, we are not powerless (like mesmers feel in PvE) but it’s glaring all too often that we are somewhat treated like the red-headed step child.

vince.5937:

It kind of sounds like you have a very set way of doing things. However, from what you told me, you’re failing to do the following on teams and events:

-Set up combo fields to empower and alter the attacks of others
-Utilize buffs, shouts, banners, etc. to give other players boosts and benefits
-Coordinate yourself so that you might help a downed player and/or set up a healing area at the right moment
-Use utility skills and weapon skills that provide debuffs to enemies and buffs to players

You can praise the almighty Holy Trinity all you want (protip: just because everyone else does it doesn’t mean you should; ever heard the “if everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too” question?) but from what you posted as your " battle strategy" you’re doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the success of others besides plucking the 1 key and healing if you get hit. Meanwhile you tell me that others should need to know their role and diversify to make for a better game? That is hypocrisy in its plainest form. Practice what you preach.

OMG!

Shot through the heart….and you’re to blame!! You give love, a bad name!

Don’t give me that speech. In a zerg, and you know it, the mentality is 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1. There is nothing else.

As for combo fields…well gosh durnit, why didn’t I think of those?? What is it?? Is that when I lay down a healing spring as a ranger and shoot arrows across it and heal my allies??

Or laying down a fire trap and using hornet’s sting to get a flame shield? Or shooting arrows across it to get fire damage

Is that when I lay down chaos field and use phase retreat to get a chaos armor? Gosh, I just don’t knwo what these combo fields are!!!! Please teach me almighty master??

I did the GW2 thing. It doesn’t work. I’m glad your content with easy-mode ‘can I have all the cookies’ mode of the game.

You could have kept that knowledge to yourself and moved onto another thread. What you failed to do, was make any significant contributions to either my suggestion, or, more importantly, to the OPs. This is about how a holy trinity ‘might’ be achieved within the context of this game (not using OTHER GAME mechanics) .

We get you don’t like to work hard at something, but explain, in terms of this game, why these suggestions will not work, or why they are wrong (exploitables and such) other than your opinion that you don’t like the holy trinity.

It seems, more often than not, many people are starting to realize, as I have, that without this ‘holy order’ that the game is bland and uninteresting. My friend told me that he didn’t like the aggro system, because it MAKES NO SENSE and there is no way to reliably 1) get it, or 2) lose it. That boils down to a holy trinity system. If I know that I will get aggro is I press this skill after this skill then I will a) not use it, or b) use it depending on if I want aggro or not.

There is where skill and knowledge of your class comes in, when you know what skill combinations produce certain effects that the mobs react you, then you either do so at a convient time, or wait to do so at a convient time.

To give an example…

If I know a mob will run at 20% health in XX game, I root it before it does, so it doesn’t aggro others when it runs away. Making sure that CD is up at that time is MY job, and blowing it too early can cause a wipe to myself and to others…

Look what I did there…I used a holy trinity mechanism.. Oops my bad.

@ZAishen

Yes, and no.

If you have the linen crafted set, and wish to transform your exotic set to look like the linen set, one set of armor is ALWAYS destroyed.

In other words:

I combine my exotic set (stats) with the look of the linen armor, and the linen stats disappear and are replaced by the exotic set, and the icon for the exotic set disappears and is permanently set by the linen.

Whatever rune/s you may have are also chosen at this time.

When combined, there is only one product left. Meaning the linen set goes away, but you keep its skin, while the exotci set remains, except you lose the skin.

TL;DR

2 go in, 1 comes out.

@nldixon

Yes, the over-moderation is…a tad bit daunting, especially when you get ‘kittened’ for saying: Abolish___it

because the ‘sh’ even with a space between the ‘it’ is still a no-no.

The fact that the moderators aggressively lock down some posts while others derail into spiteful flames wars (as long as the original post was a positive in GW2’s direction) means they know their game is in trouble and are locking it down.

I remember when you could enjoy conversing on a forums about the state of a game, both good and bad, so long as people could hold a civil tongue, and if one person couldn’t the post itself would be minimized (you could still read it if you liked) and the person infracted, but the conversation was allowed to continue.

The over-moderation tells me that either the forum moderators have never moderated the game, or that they are doing so in order to silence discontent players so that ‘new’ people will feel that the game is in good order.

It’s immature way to police a forums.

vince.5937:

And yet here I am, running my Engineer with +Healing and Elixir Gun and all beneficial potions/Med Kit so I can buff/heal any team I get on.

What you don’t seem to realize is that people already do all these things. I’ve seen Elementalists tank. I’ve seen Rangers buff and heal. I’ve seen Engineers heal and debuff and tank (Juggernaut is fun). Yes, the mob mentality is to do damage— but damage is what kills enemies. The best form of crowd control and support is to kill the enemy dead. We don’t need the same agonizingly overused gaming trope that almost every MMO in existence has latched onto like some sort of desperate lamprey.

Also, please don’t pass off what was clearly a passive-aggressive insult as something logical.

Well, let’s see…

the ‘HOly Trinity’ worked for

EQ
EQ2
Vanguard
Rift
Aion
WoW
WAR
Horizons (istaria)
GW1

I’m sure there are many other MMO’s I havent’ listed, but it worked for ALL of them. It doesn’t work for GW2 because they built the ‘harder’ mobs to ‘hit too hard for tank’ heals don’t mitigate that spike damage, CC is ineffectual and DAMAGE is all that needs to be done to ‘win’.

Problem with a damage only damage only game is that you have to make the game easier so that people don’t complain that they are dying all the time because the mobs are too hard. Ever notice that you can hit at normal attack speed, but ‘normal’ mobs have 1/5 of our same attack speed?

That’s because the developers had to make them easy for you. That is why you can round up 4-5 at a time and hit 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, and win. There is little risk vs reward. it’s EASY, requires little thought and very little effort on the part of anyone.

MMO’s have one word I usually harp on when referring to any MMORPG, and that it is a MULTI-PLAYER game, meaning there are other people walking about the world, like you. Why do you avoid them? Feel superior to them? Inferior??

With anything that has more than one player able to play at the same time, I wonder why it is that people avoid other people in games like this. Especially when A.Net wants people to cooperate and work together to achieve an end goal.

However, with this…easy-mode..horizontal progression model, it in fact, is encouraging the opposite. I don’t have to form a group when Jormag spawns to quick rush and take it down, or call ALL HANDS ON DECK for my guild when the dragon spawns to take it down.

No, I join the other 50 free floaters and hit 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 until the ice shield goes down and then 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 until he flies up into the air.

I don’t have to worry about dying, because the dragon is so easy that he doesn’t bother to hit me. Even his attack is easily mitigated by my own self heal. The adds are no problem (except as a mesmer I can’t hit them fast enough :/ ) because everyone else AE’s them down and spams their damage and we all return to 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1.

The problem stems down to the lack of roles (healing especially). Without heal,s as I’ve said, the ‘other’ roles are meaningless. CC, Healing, tanking..mean nothing compared to do more damage than that guy.

With a holy trinity, you not only have to know how to play your part, you have to know how other play their parts as well. As my suggestion, and OPs suggestion goes, this is what would be accomplished. A way of having a holy trinity, without having to plug ‘certain’ classes in for each role.

No Warrior, Monk and ….anyone else….It would be…Ok, we have two tanking roles and 2 healing roles, could use some support roles and DPS.

That could be ANY combination of players, without having to limit it to 1-2 classes out of 8. You would have to rely upon them to know and perform their roles, as they would have to rely upon you to know yours, and a HUGE cooperation part in a group like that to know when and how to switch roles to compliment the groups tactics.

Your way sounds boring.

My way sounds much more exciting.

vince.5937:

teviko.6049:

@vince

sounds like your better off in a single player game.

I think centipede will be to your liking.

1. Why flame?
2. You’re not funny.
3. It is not unreasonable to want a character who isn’t 70% useless solo.

In WoW I hated dying if I pulled more then 2 enemies. I hated dying if I pulled one Elite. I hated dying if I didn’t have a pocket healer. I hated dying if the mages/hunters/warlocks didn’t DPS fast enough.

In GW2 I can take on things that other games won’t let you survive and win. That’s rewarding. Falling back to the archaic and annoying ‘holy trinity’ of Tank-Heal-DPS will make this game as boring as every other MMO that relies on it.

Centipede. Were you saving that one up for a moment like this?

Yes, I couldn’t pass up the oppurtunity to make you feel special by directing you to a game more suited to your style.

I love the concept of roles. Which is why I went to a game with roles.

And if you look at MY suggestion, your viability would not be hindered because you are XX class (i.e you will not be unable to do damage, or heal, or take a hit or support your group). Your viability in PvE/PvP would in no way be impacted. In fact, it might be boosted because of my methodology.

AS a warrior, you can be a tank, a support role, or a lean mean, DPS fighting machine.

As a mesmer, you can be a support role, a tank (had interesting theories of how this could be accomplished `^_^` or DPS

An Elementalist could be a healer, a DPS’er or a tank

An Engi could be support, healer, tank(??)

A ranger could be tank, support, healer

So on and so forth, all accomplishing this through stance swaps and filling in a vaccum in a groups’ structure.

As it is you have

Role 1 = DPS
Role 2 = DPS
Role 3 = DPS
Role 4 = DPS
Role 5 = DPS

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS….no wonder the mob mentality reigns supreme. It takes no skill to role with a zerg, all you have to do is spam 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1………..loot.

We all heard this game does not have a holy trinity, that A.Net wanted to remove this so groups don’t get stuck looking for a tank or a healer or CC/DPS. Anyone is supposed to fullfill anyone elses’ roles, but ultimately, A.Net failed on this, because without the ‘healing’ role, all other roles aside from DPS become meaningless.

However, when I first ‘bought into’ this game I was watching an interview where it was said: Every class can fullfill any role. So take this necromancer…he can get in there, tank a little bit, then back out. And I lit up with excitement! Of course, I had my own theories on how this would be achieved, but that was not how A.Net achieved this ‘goal’. IN fact, they didn’t achieve it at all, imho.

However, this is what I had envisioned"

Stances.

There are 4 possible stances, we’ll say. Tank, healer, DPS and support. Any class can achieve 3/4 stances. No class can do all 4, with one role left out so that you can’t just walk into a dungeon with all thieves or some such. This promotes class diversity, as well as brings an interesting idea to the table:

Let’s just say your particular group has two classes that can tank, 3 that can heal, 4 that can DPS and 3 that can support. While it seems you are bringing in too few tanks, the way the traits could be set up is that the classes that can tank (while traited) can tank for longer because their CDs refresh faster.

While this idea in mind, you’d have to understand that all your abilities perform differently under different stances (think Ele attunements). So your GS in DPS stance would get 100 blades, your GS in tank stance would grant 100 parries (not really 100 parries…just saying…) a 6 second CD where you evade attacks (traited,. But once that skill is used, its on a CD. In fact, 1-5 would ALL have lengthy CD’s associated with them, so, even after weapon swapping, your original weapon CD’s would still be on timer. This is why having a second tank is needed.

So you call out for a tank swap, allowing the original tank to move into a CC or DPS role, while the second tank, who was on Support duty, moves into tank, and that guy on DPS moves into support, and so on and so forth. People would have to cooperate on switching roles on the fly, and make the game more interesting if mobs and dungeon bosses were adjusted appropriately.

This keeps A.Net’s philosophy that anyone can fill in any role (we all disocvered that was bumpkiss) and gives people back the holy trinity in such a way that makes the exploration of these mechanics fun and interesting, especially if the DEV’s balanced the mechanics around this ‘idea’.

Phaze Delta One.2834:

Guild Wars 2 isn’t your typical MMO. Why is this still a surprise to some people? If having no gear progression makes people upset, maybe they should go play a different game.

sighs happily

And that is why I have found a new game. Yay for PROGRESSION!
This game is COMPLETELY free, and 100% superior to GW2 in all regards. (psst. it’s not WoW. I won’t play that game or anything in SoE’s stable even if the company PAID me)

I am happy, and while I hope GW2 will improve, and eventually bring me back, there is NOTHING for me to do here.

I think I will go dump my money in the cash shop for this new game. At least I know what I put my money towards will be what I get, not some random RNG full of ‘tonics’ that change me into a…bird….

sighs and storms off

Magic Bullet:

While untraited, states that it stuns, dazes and then blinds.

While TRAITED, states that it blinds, dazes, stuns.

Just a wording on the tooltip that needs to be fixed (nothing major).

Am I mistaken???

I was having a conversation with my friend, telling him about the intricacies of the mesmer class, reading him our abilities when I switched to my sword/pistol combo and read to him about magic bullet….

And stopped cold…

I know I have read that skill and what it does and genuinely appreciate its utility in combat, but today I read it and froze.

First target is blinded, second is dazed, and the third is stunned.

Wasn’t it the other way around? Wasn’t it stunned, dazed and THEN blinded?

I’m ok with being wrong, but I am almost 100% positive it used to be the second way, that the stun was first.

I use Superior Rune of the Inflitrator.

Stuff dies brutally fast. Especially when life goes below 50% my damage ramps up phenominally

I am going back to my old build (way for scepter update!). The point is that phantasms (while not supposed to be one trick ponies) are just that now.

Summon iwarlock, switch to sword/pistol, summon iduelist, cast illusionary leap, cast switch. By this time, iwarden (if not dead) has already done its full damage, as will duelist, you have 3 clones, BAM while using blurred frenzy.

Dispatch remaining HPs as neccessary.

I wouldn’t expect an update on the ranger until after the halloween event. I think its best to just enjoy this fluff event and then expect a big patch full of ranger loving. I just hope that they fix some key issues with some of our skills, especially like the ones they have already mentioned.

I would like to see a boost in GS damage, and Longbow, honestly. Longbow is supposed to be our signature weapon, but due to its…lackluster nature, it only fills in very minor roles in WvW.

I have gone through 20 pieces of candy corn and I still can’t see the ghost. My ‘meter’ is indicating that I am in the right area…but nothing I have gone through every frequency and it’s still not showing up for me

Volrath.1473:

Sure man I’m a thief and I could live with that change. BUT as you mentioned Rift as an example let me tell you that in Rift assassins have PERMANENT stealth and an in combat stealth with invulnerability in it. So yah if this comes to the thief in GW2 I won’t mind at all.

FYI, my assassin in Rift kills stuff in 1,5 sec (global cool down) with backstab + serpent’s strike.

I didn’t play assassin spe in rift, but I did play a stealth class. I know how to operate and be much more…aware of what I was going into, not just popping a Stealth when I couldn’t kill my opponent. I had to be sure of teh kill, or else get out of there or be content to eat a death.

That’s why I borrowed that from Rift. Stealth, aside from the heal, could be implemented in such a way that they just can’t chain stun stealth and be virtually impossible to kill.