I for one am happy to hear about this.
I am coming back to the game to check it out to see just exactly what this entails.
And to all those threatening to leave:
No you won’t. This isn’t a deal breaker. Not for you.
What I am finding interesting, reading these forums day in and day out, I am noticing a new trend. The general trend is that people ‘enjoyed’ the game when it first came out, and now, after a few weeks, even a few months of playing, that it is somehow…‘missing’ something. Not everyone agrees on what that ‘something’ is…its kinda like knowing there is a storm coming, just over the horizon, even when, by all accounts, the weather is bright and sunny and not a cloud in the sky.
However, those who enjoy the game (currently) are all emphatic that its just our perceptions that need changing, that we somehow deluded ourselves to what the premise of the game was. It’s not like we picked it up thinking ti was going to be some WoW clone, or another one of those type of MMO models.
The very reason we chose this game was because it was supposed to ‘break the mold’ be that persistent world MMO experience that people wanted. And at first, I was dazzled by the graphics, and the beauty of the game and thought it was neat that the hearts had multiple tasks that you could do in order to complete it. It seemed like the most refreshing way to participate.
But it wasn’t until I went back to those ‘other’ models of MMO’s that I realized why this is such a hinderance to this game. At least with quests…(if you read the flavor text) you get involved into a story, that when you complete these series of quests, a piece of history about the place unfolds, and sucks you in. With hearts, it is not so. You do you part, you get your karma, you may check what they have to offer you, and you move on. Its more transient, and these places become less and less memorable after the 30th time you’ve done a heart and you just want to ‘finish it’ and move on. Places become less and less memorable and you don’t really stick around to talk and find out about an area. I know I am monumentally guilty about this…but by about this time…the game was unfolding at the shallow, hollow experience I found it to be.
I am glad, that people are enjoying the game, I am. I am not one of those people. The faults i have with the game are wrapped up singularly in the fact that this game is nothing but a super-ficial experiement (one to me that feels like its an experimental failure). Others are beginning to see it as well, and as time will attest, the increase in dissention will continue to grow, until the developers are forced to acknowledge the games short comings.
It sounds like they already are. They are making dungeons that are ‘pathless’ that you just have to follow the rabbit hole and the difficulty increases as you go deeper in. I’d be thrilled about this, however, this is what they promised back during beta, and they are now only giving it to us now???
But, even without acknowledging their short comings, I am glad to see that they are ‘adjusting the game’ to see how people will react to a ‘newer’ more ’carrot driven model. Perhaps it will be better, perhaps it will not, time will show us.
There’s no way you can do all events several times, do all the hearts in the starter zone and be only lv12 just no way !
My toon was always 3 lvs to high for the next zone, by the time I got to 80 I had yet to see straits of devastation and my world completion was below 30%
I’d recommend mixing in some WvW and crafting.
My ranger was level 12 when I got map completion in queensdale.
It’s entirely possible.
/thread
Map completion only means you did all the hearts, POI and WP in the map… this is the archaic quest mentality all over again “I have completed the map and still not high level enough QQ” right of course you’re NOT ! hearts are not the main source of XP in the game DE’s are !
That wasn’t to point out how to get more exp, but the fact that it is possible to get level 12 and map completion.
There’s no way you can do all events several times, do all the hearts in the starter zone and be only lv12 just no way !
My toon was always 3 lvs to high for the next zone, by the time I got to 80 I had yet to see straits of devastation and my world completion was below 30%
I’d recommend mixing in some WvW and crafting.
My ranger was level 12 when I got map completion in queensdale.
It’s entirely possible.
/thread
Try this…
Go scepter dagger.
It is arguably the EASIEST weapon set to train on as an Ele.
Run around in air attunement. See an an enemy use air 4 skill to hurl yourself at it at lightning speed (no pun intended). Use Air 5 when you come out of the charge (stay next to the enemy when you do)
Switch to earth and hit earth 4, switch to fire and hit fire 2, fire 4 and fire 3 all in rapid succession.
Then try that with a group of 3 or 4 mobs and witness your result.
You will level all too quickly and feel like a champion
Then you can work on other weapons.
Oh, and for heals…if you need them switch to either earth of water (water preferably) when you activate your heal.
have you tried changing attunements?
I have to agree on the OP points. Sure he/she has 700 plus hours spent, but that can all be do in the hopes of He/she waiting to see if anything changed patch after patch.
GW2 has lots of issues, and the only thing they are concerned about are the endless supply of Constant Locked Chest drops. They need to add more important to gamer drops. such as good gear, weapons, etc off of mobs instead, because right now the only choices we have are.
Buy keys off the market with Real life cash for the Locked chest that works off a RNG of goodies beside pointless tonics.
Buy game gold from a third party seller to help players get their crafting maxed for lengendaries.
to depend on the Mysic toilet that works off a RNG to spit out good gear.
to depend on the RNG system to get something good off champion bosses. or even the 70-80 Risen mobs.
U wot m8?
Did you even play the game?
lol, in his cynical way, it sounds like he played a lot!!
derision aside, he has very valid arguments.
The mystic forge is the WORST game mechanic I’ve ever seen. as the inifinite black hole of garbage regurgitation, its a wonder people haven’t taken a flamethrower to it yet.
As for third party ‘sellers’, basically, they sell gold half as cheap as A.Net does. More in the hopes of getting potential buyers than to be generous.
The random number generator that deals with mobs and loot is…awful. I know this game is not supposed to be about gear, but when I kill a veteran or a champion and i get NOTHING to show for my effort, except the mobs laughter ringing in my ears, well..its a huge let down.
Or if I kill a world boss mob, let the champion risen giant, and all I get is a gold medal (akin to a pat on teh head, like a good dog) and some purple karma points that are useless (yes, I know I CAN buy gear with it, but the gear…I don’t want it, I already HAVE the exotics and the stats I do want) and a measly 2s?? I’m supposed to be proud of my 15 minutes of spamming 1???
No, I think the guy had his ‘short’ version pretty much dead on.
Each thread like this i see the same things…
The OP makes legit points and the blind fanboys just dog him because of hours played.
Same ol’ same ol’.
^ This.
I was going to warn the OP to prepare for mass flaming, but if he’s got that many hours logged I’m sure he already knows what time it is.
It truly is amazing, that any time someone brings up the myriad issues plaguing this game, issues that have been discussed far beyond these forums, that person is napalmed by drooling fanboys who ignore this game’s failings and blame everything on YOU.
That’s right, if you have an issue with this “perfect” game, then YOU are dumb, or YOU need to “change your mindset”, or YOU “just don’t get it”, or YOU are just a “hater”.
I think it’s hilarious how many of the fanboys told people to “go back to WoW”, and it wound up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I nipped your last bit of this post and implore you to edit it yourself and try to keep a debate civil (unlike the White Knights who have the protection of their Forum gods on their side). Also, lets try and stay on topic.
Yes, this game has its failings, yes, this game has its charm. The problem for me was/is that I was promised something that I did not get, and when I try to say so, like you pointed out, the flamebois hurry to defend the game with their blind fervor.
Yes, populatiojn may not be decreasing, but think of just how bots you ‘spot’ on average in the game.
For every one bot you see…10 go unnoticed….and since most people that are ‘veteran’ to this are in the higher level, the bots can hide and farm in lower level areas (fireheart rise in the drake area ring a bell??) Sure, the game HAS population, but more and more, people are congregating in Lion’s Arch, doing anything BUT platying the game.
If it were fun, LA would be more deserted since its a hub and not a place to adventure (even though I though the sharkmaw caverns to be amazingly fun, the FIRST time through)
maybe people would buy the keys is the chests actually had something useful in them.
This.
This x100
this x 100 × 100
so on and so forth.
Noone will buy keys if the only thing your going to get is tonics. Who cares. They are cute, sure, its a silly oveture…then you realize what a hoax it is. And when you come to understand that you will NEVER get anything good aside from tonics and maybe some sort of booster, why would you BUY any BLK’s in the first place????
I made a suggestion once that if the DEV’s lowered teh prices of keys to 50 gems each, also put in ‘prized items’ like permanent harvesting tools (never broke, had an even higher chance to get more/rares from nodes) would drive the desire to get keys.
If you also put some ‘gems’ in the chests as a possible reward, that would also incenticize the desire to get more keys. If you got 50 gems every so often into the chests, people might just open up the gem shop and trade those gems in for another key and then open another chest.
If you opened a chest and got 2 ro 3 lodestones, or globs of ecto, or orichalcum, or ANYTHING rare it would also serve to create a higher demand for keys. There are many great items that you could think to put into chests, rather than tonics.
Also, the gem shop is highly underwhelming. You have 4-6 skins, some glasses, a hat or two, some unidentified dyes and packs, boosters (Which is highly underwhelming as well…this can be a topic for another day). Only things in the gem shop of calue are the character slots and bank slots. Maybe inventory slots, but I don’t have a real issue with inventory space with ’deposite all collectables" and being able to insta-sell anything on the market and readibly available merchants almost anywhere in the world.
The primary focus seems to be the black lion chest keys, but the prices themselves are set way to high for just ONE, and the bundled ratio is no better. If you want the exchange of keys and chests, then you must first make keys ‘practical’. Then you must make chests (and their contents) desireable.
THEN you can more people visitng your gem store and putting it to better use.
Think about it.
I would say they do because they have not reached 700 hours in game and have not hit that brick wall called boredom yet. The game has no flavor in the ‘upper eschalons’ of the game play, nor does it have anything meaningful or enriching to continue to make the everyday grind seem like less of one.
The game is a nice sugar coating on <dung> If you haven’t licked yourself down to the tootsie roll center of your lollipop, then of COURSE you think the game in infalliable and therefore, noone else with time invested or experience with other MMO’s (up to and including this one) should dare say a bad word about this game.
I think its infuriating that I was promised something that failed to deliver, and doubly so that the valiant White Knights of A.Net adamantly defend this game with blind fervor, doing nothing really to contribute to a ‘negatively skewed’ post other than saying…
“Lol, you just want a gear grind progression game…lol go back to WoW n00b.”
It’s insulting since, probably half of us DIDN’t come from wow, and we KNEW this MMO model was different than all the rest, but that doesn’t mean that it has a right (im my opinion) to not only fail to deliver FUN game play, but to fail to be openly honest about the TRUTH of what they promised vs what we got.
I love the ‘concept’ of the combat, the dodging, the actual use of SKILL to obtain victory over your opponent (in pvp). In reality though, skill hardly matters rather than build. Against equally skilled players, the best build wins, instead of coming down to kill or both players going down at the same time, and using skills to beat another.
In PvE its glaring obvious the imbalance of classes. But it doesn’t really matter, because in zergs…yes you can use support abilities to aid your allies, but once you’ve laid down your banners you forget them and then its buisness as usual spamming 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, ad infinitum, then refreshing some utilities, and then back to business as usual.
The skill promised to me isn’t there. The illusion of it is, the prospect of something wonderful remains hidden potential, but this fantasy p eople have concocted that this game is deep and innovative and pioneering…
You need to check out some other games and return. This game is light years form being ‘next gen’ or even…innovative.
mesmers are totally getting nerfed again.
How can they nerf us even more???
i am sorry, but all i read is “700 hours played” then see pointless complaints.
if you stuck with this game for 700 hours, which is the equivilent of 17.5 work weeks at 40 hours a week… the game is obviously pretty good.
not trying to be a troll, but seriously, you need some variation in your life. its no wonder you are not happy right now.
totally agree with this comment.
Also remember this is an MMO not a console game.
MMOs are meant to take years to play not 700 hours
I would agree with this statement, except it doesn’t take 700 hours to ‘beat’ this game. It took less than 100? For me anyways, and I was not first, by a long shot to make it to 80 and have full exotics. It took me a little over a wekk, playing at a mild pace and even dinking around on alts.
The remaining hours I spent playing was divided evenly between sPvP (where i play a ranger) WvW, PvE and dungeons, as well as maxing out two crafing professions on my main, another two on my ele and almost mastered two on my ranger. I stomached what I could, and well, the rest made me run away from the game.
If it ‘were’ fun, I’d still be playing.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the game, OP…I can’t but mirror your sentiments in all the things you say. I realized these things several hundred hours before you did but my ultimate conclusion on this bit of ‘virtual entertainment’ known as GW2 is similar to yours…it’s pretty with some interesting concepts in the realm of game mechanics but mostly lacks substance.
When speaking to fellow gamers, I often liken this bit of ‘virtual entertainment’ to the myriad childrens toys that might foster social interraction but are, for the most part superficial and without much merit on their own. To me, this is the Fisher Price MMO…the Barbie Fantasy Dream Costume MMO…it’s easy, accessible and the more $$ you spend in the cash shop, the more ‘surface’ you have to scratch at and boast of to fellow collectors.
For the most part, your potential in GW2 is static, with a low ceiling and fully dictated by restrictive, bland mechanics meant to showcase pixels over skill and foster cash-shop profits in the absence of a subscription model.
To a core gamer…one who values challenge on all levels and is willing to commit the time and effort it takes to be successful with chosen titles within the genre…this bit of ‘virtual entertainment’ is, although pretty, not worthy of the hard-drive space it occupies.
Oh, and don’t pay attention to the ‘white knight’ casual corps. who can’t or don’t wish to pursue gaming in a meaningful way…they need their ‘virtual entertainment’ and I think GW2 is it for them.
Sincerely,
I added you to friends list last month because of your constant complaining of GW2 on the forums.
Know what i found? That you have yet to log into GW2. Like not even once. Which means YOU DON’T EVEN PLAY gw2 but just come on here, use horrible grammar, and complain about something you don’t even take part in?? I really get the feeling that you work for blizzard or another competitive company cause you only complain about gw2 and haven’t played it at all. Sad, Really..
FIrst off…this guy, Aenigmo…has 7 posts. All that non-stop complaining Katostraphe…how can he live with himself!!! Even if he made 1 post per week the game was out, he would not have made enough posts in the number of weeks the game has been out.
All that constant complaining…I wonder…how you could make this statement without having done ANY research!
Secondly, how do you even know what times he plays. Are you on 24/7? If you are, how do you have time to come to the forums and be A.Net’s valiant White Knight??? So…its easy to make asumptions (revised spelling so the forums don’t kitten me) about that as well….
So, in other words, you didn’t like Aenigmo’s post, got all ragey about it and decided to ‘claim’ that he makes all these hostile posts, and ‘claimed’ to put him on your friend’s list.
Good job.
By the way…that’s called discrediting you.
To the OP.
I feel ya. I feel much the same way. This game superficially looks amazing…but lacks anything ‘fun’. I put my time in, but after 500 or so hours, I couldn’t force myself to play anymore. I log in to check on my guild, but I don’t do anything in game. The ‘end-game’ has become the forums.
The problem with this system (as the OP clearly illustrates) is that the trait system defines what you do, and you pick weapons around those traits.
However, skills should be..unlockable, much as they were in GW1 and fit into slots, and that your trait to compliment your skills, and can build a unique and varied build that would work in ‘your’ expert hands.
AS it works now, you have pigeon hole builds that you are forced to use in order to be ‘viable’. It shouldn’t work that way. Traits should reflect the skills you pick that compliment a desired way of playing (PB bombing in GW1 was fun on an Ele)
This is a bad idea, since there is already two ways to pump massive amounts of gold into the commity. You can buy gold from the gold farmers, or swipe your credit card and convert money into in world gold.
legendaries would soar to over 1k in price.
Plus, super inflation would result.
In the Black Citadel, the command center looks a lot like the death star from star wars
Ummm you can do this on all mmo’s also. How is this any different? Also adding farming, trading post and exploration as part of end game just shows you how much it lacks content wise. Exploration is always the poorest excuse of content but to throw in the trading past, that is just mind blowing.
I’m gonna ignore the fact you’re trying to knock legitimate examples off the list with our old friend No True Scotsman and simply let you in on a little fact. Exploration is endgame content for a lot of players. Playing the market is endgame for a lot of players. Just because you don’t enjoy it doesn’t mean you can’t count it on the list of things to do.
Ultimately the problem is with player perception. WoW has poisoned the minds of the MMO community. Challenge is vilified (devs apologizing for the Halloween jumping puzzle mutch?), endgame activities “don’t count as endgame” if it’s not a tiered PVE raid grind. While the “no endgame” argument may have worked in, say, SWTOR the problem is there’s a lot to do in GW2 that doesn’t constitute a classic PVE skinner box.
Sadly to many deluded players no skinner box means no endgame. My advice is to not try to enforce these delusions as the truth of things.
[/quote]
Again with assumptions. First off, to the boded statement….THEY ARE JUST THINGS TO DO. It is not ‘end-game’.
Secondly, WoW had nothing to do with ‘end-game’ mentalities. Would you really believe WoW was NOT the first MMO???? gasp the horror….
Just because your idea of end-game and mine do not mesh does not mean that people do not rise to the top and then realize that there is nothing to do. The things they envisioned on doing once they hit 80 became a sad disappointing reality to many a player.
Just because you haven’t realized the things I have doesn’t mean that you ever will. Perhaps your satisfied with this model, currently, but read this:
MANY PEOPLE WERE WHEN THE GAME RELEASED!!! SO many bought into this, thinking that A.Net’s vision was going to revolutionize the MMO industry. We were promised teh nectar of the Gods, and got grape juice instead. As for someone who’se never had grape juice, this might be the end all of end and the bestest thing on the planet, but us adults are going…where’s my wine???
For me, the whole game is the endgame. Exploring it all and taking it in at my own pace is quite enjoyable. I feel that mmo-rpg players (or hey, people in general) have fallen into a serious trap that is the need to be told how to have fun or given some tedious task (grind for this shiny loot!) for your “endgame”. Here I simply play gw2, to play gw2, and its refreshing.
And this here is why we differ on opinion. You feel you have the freedom to play, in my experience, A.Net has told me HOW to play..or else.
Apparently spamming “1” is not a fun game play experience to them. And so, they have assigned nerfs to the ranger class and their way of ‘playing’. Yet the rest of the game is largely the population spamming ‘1’ against Jormag and his ilk.
1 is the go to skill because its the only thing that doesn’t have a CD on the skill. Therefore, 1 is a ‘spamable’ skill. But things that kill the DEV’s precious warrior class gets nerfed.
There are loads of other reasons that I feel the DEV’s have decided what is fun for me and not, but this game…isn’t one of them.
I so wish that would change
everyone i knew thought the guild influence item was 10k.
I can’t believe it was not only 1k, but that the glory boost is only 100 points (really…thats equvilent of a PvP salvage kit…). That…that killed me there.
Its like…they decided to be cheap about their upgrade and PUNISH people for getting it.
OP
I think if you left the game because you got bored, then coming back, you’ll realize that its still so much more of the SAME THING that made you leave in the first place.
Go ahead and log in, the game is free. Open your map and jump to any place in Orr.
If you haven’t logged out 30 secs after getting to Orr, you might have fun with this game for another week or two.
I like the idea of scrapping levels…since this whole game revolves around a horizontal gear progression idea..but not of segregating the game into single player/multi-player.
Skill points should be used to unlock skills (not utilities rolls eyes but skills you can then customize and use to build around, and traits that would (like GW1) enhance the chosen sets of skills. You shouldn’t build around sets of traits, but have traits be built around skills.
THAT would make things work more fluently, and allow 100’s of customizable builds that all classes/players would enjoy, and not pigeon-hole certain classes into 1 or 2 viable builds.
Hey, if it’s not working out for you, don’t force it. ANet’s trying something new and different with this game and their content updates, it’s a learning experience for all of us.
That was by far the most decent reply of anything.
You acknowledge that I didn’t like the game (in its current permeatation) and that I wasn’t just some gear driven junk-a-holic.
THanks. Honestly, that was the best reply I have ever seen. Kudos to you sir/ma’am.
People are way too used to gear treadmills. So ingrained because they never played anything other than that one type of game.
There is an endgame in GW2, and it’s fantastic.
Care to explain what it is? I have 100% world completion and can’t name anything else to do.
WvW, sPvP, alts, working on your legendary, playing the Trading Post, farming, dungeons, exploring further (even at 100% there is still a lot to find in the world, as I was surprised to find out).
The fantastic thing about GW2 is you have so many things you can do every time you log in. The only thing this game is missing would be the gear treadmill, which to many people is a great thing.
WvW…check, did that, got the T-shirt
sPvP/tPvP…check, did that too
working on my legendary….was excited, then I learned what a big LET DOWN it was, then I didn’t bother pumping 100’s of gold worth of things into a lottery machine. I can go to Vegas and actually get something worthwhile.
playing the TP…check, did that, made my money…got bored of this, because let’s face it, what am I spending my gold on?? Legendary? Nope…exotics??? nope…uhm……
farming dungeons….did my fair share of them, and quite personally, I don’t like the dengeon skins…
100% world completion….I actually have the stomach to choke down doing yet ‘another’ heart, or another event, or another vista, or skill point…rolls eyesNope, can’t do it. I’m done.
I don’t understand. In other games you grind out dungeons for end game gear. The mechanics are all the same. The only thing you’re not striving for in this game is an extra +10 hit points.
I don’t know why anyone is complaining. Anyone coming from GW1 or intensively followed GW2 KNEW that there wouldn’t be a gear grind. You can craft your level 80 exotics and the game stops there for you statically speaking.
They don’t need to keep you for months. It’s a buy to play game. Come back when new content gets released and let those players who enjoy the game continue playing it.
It doesn’t have to be about gear, or gear progression. I thought the game would be FUN! Fun meaning that the stuff is fun to explore, to do over again (even if its for nothing else than some ‘skins’)
But it wasn’t fun.
At first it was…for a time, and then, no. Once the dazzling sparklies wore off, I saw the game (imho) as this shallow, hallow experience that had no richness or depth of content. It’s like EQ2, a soulless, empty game that has nothing engaging to it.
I do understand that it is my opinion only and fanboi’s won’t agree, but sheesh, I pour an intense amount of time into this game. I TRIED to like it, I even pushed myself to ‘give it some time’ but honestly, that depressed me further.
I am waiting around to see how A.Net deals with Lost Shores. It that tanks, my faith in this company will be forever…well, maybe not FOREVER, but seriously damaged.
People are way too used to gear treadmills. So ingrained because they never played anything other than that one type of game.
There is an endgame in GW2, and it’s fantastic.
Care to explain what it is? I have 100% world completion and can’t name anything else to do.
WvW, sPvP, alts, working on your legendary, playing the Trading Post, farming, dungeons, exploring further (even at 100% there is still a lot to find in the world, as I was surprised to find out).
The fantastic thing about GW2 is you have so many things you can do every time you log in. The only thing this game is missing would be the gear treadmill, which to many people is a great thing.
WvW…check, did that, got the T-shirt
sPvP/tPvP…check, did that too
working on my legendary….was excited, then I learned what a big LET DOWN it was, then I didn’t bother pumping 100’s of gold worth of things into a lottery machine. I can go to Vegas and actually get something worthwhile.
playing the TP…check, did that, made my money…got bored of this, because let’s face it, what am I spending my gold on?? Legendary? Nope…exotics??? nope…uhm……
farming dungeons….did my fair share of them, and quite personally, I don’t like the dengeon skins…
100% world completion….I actually have the stomach to choke down doing yet ‘another’ heart, or another event, or another vista, or skill point…rolls eyes
Nope, can’t do it. I’m done.
Made my second 80 a few weeks ago. Still loving this game. People who complain about no end-game probably have only seen 10% of what the game has to offer.
Or has seen everything the game has to offer and doesn’t need to lie to themselves about what utter brown stuff it is.
This is GW2 endgame summed up:
We’re really not sposed to talk about bots in forums posts. There’s a sticky thread. It suffices to say not everyone plays with the official client.
Some zones are empty of real players. Other zones have plenty – for example I’m frequently put into overflow in Lion’s Arch.
Your enjoyment of the game will be enhanced if you get an active guild.
I think its a disturbing trend that no zone except the cities are…populated.
Lion’s Arch! I laughed
I loved Forgal. I loved him a whole bunch.
I hate trahearne for taking his place! Forgal didn’t need to die!
that, and they get around the whole..letting them bleed out…exploit that keeps them from ressing at the base
This is kinda serious. It should be addressed.
It’s also…childish and immature and….childish. Really?
A multi-guild system does indeed give more power to the individual. They can use representation as a way of indicating that a certain guild is meeting their needs at that point in time. So they can represent their PvP guild when PvP’ing, their social guild when they just want to chat etc.
This does not lessen the value of a guild. What it does mean is that you need to look at the needs of your members and address them. If a member is always happy with your guild then they will never feel the need to represent another. If they are representing another guild then ask them why and see if you can address what they feel they are missing in your guild. If you can’t meet their needs then maybe its time for them to move on.
I can definitely see how the above might be uncomfortable for guild leaders, but in many ways it reflects real life.
Yes, because in Real life, my boss is terrifed if I threaten to leave my job, and he will get down on his hands and knees and do whatever it takes to make sure I stay where I am. He’ll offer me a raise, a bigger health benefit, dental, and a bigger bonus that Lois at register 2…
Get real. Wanna campare this to real life???
Then guilds are like clubs, where exclusitivity (like a TRUE gentlemans club) where members buy in, and are loyal because if they are not, they lose their status in society if they are…removed for any reason.
This multi-guild system is more like kids going: “If you don’t give me your candy bar, we aren’t friends anymore!” And the GL (erm, kid who has the candy) is FORCED? to hand over his candy bar
Uhm, no thanks.
Last posts are really focusing too much on the moral aspect of belonging to a guild, and extreme behaviours that we can come across in-game, rather than the realistic, practical, aspect of leading a guild, organizing events, and making everyone participate in something shared, something common.
Maybe there are guild leaders with god complex who just like to rule over people. Maybe there are members that are no more than freeloaders who are just here to take advantage of what other people put time and effort to create.
But seriously : stop with the clichés. Try to stay on topic, which is how multi guild system may prevent players from creating a strong, united group, and what can we do, with in-game but also external tools, to encourage the feeling that you belong in the guild you are with (and I’ve read pretty awesome suggestion on this thread, so it would be nice to pursue efforts in this way).
If that’s the topic of this post then even the OP isn’t on topic. I think you may have missed this part "In any case I’d love to hear what everyone on the forums thinks of the multi-guild system and whether or not you think it’s harmful to guild longevity or functionality. " His entire post was about how he feels that having multi-guilds as an option is hurting his guild. There are those who believe it is harmful and those that don’t. We are both encouraged to give our opinion.
I agree with this.
However, that said, I agree with the OP that, in terms of small guilds, that it isn’t working out well. Even with strict and stringent recruitment policies, very few small guilds can grow decently, and unles syou adopt a GOTTA CATCH EM ALL practice, small guilds are still hurt by the multi-guild system, because it doesn’t foster any sense of loyalty. At least in games with ONE guild (per character) system, yoiu were in that guild, could see if you liked it, and it didn’t suit both parties, you left.
ANd if it did suit you, you put forth effort and care in building it toward the direction the ‘guild’ deemed suitable.
GW2 just doesn’t foster that, it caters, as someone said, to the guild hoppers, and ego-centric troublemakers who don’t give a flying fig.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/FOV-Field-of-View-Changes-Beta-Test/first#post551634
I did this! And I was so much happier in PvP. I was a bit rusty, I haven’t PvP’d in a month, but even so, with this, I had a good time.
Even made a warrior rage quit because I wasn’t an easy HB kill
I dissagree with you here Tzash. I feel that the social problems are compounded by the very design of the multi guild system as it stands. It at thevery least needs tweaking in some way. check my post back along and u will c my ideas for it.
I’ve read your post and I’m still not seeing how it is a mechanics problem. If you have a guild requirement that members represent your guild and then some don’t want to then surely that indicates that they weren’t suitable for your guild in the first place.
The reason is because with the multi-guild representation system is that no consideration is taken when joining a guild. Whether you want a small family type of guild, or a large faceless zerg guild.
The example the OP listed was a perfect example of (not just his attitude) but of the symptom o fthe system. This system breed discontent for guilds in ‘general’ because if you don’t want to conform to a guild, you just don’t represent, and if they poke you about it, you ‘threaten’ to leave.
The point is, that when choosing one guild, it is because a guild can help you, and in return you can help the guild. And that is through a unity of purpose. In this game, that unity is hard sought, and even if found, the lack of anything can lead people to discontent and the eventual leaving of a guild for ‘greener’ pastures.
It is nice if some guilds focus on a certain aspect, and you can represent certain aspects and bounce around to guilds that will suit a need for you. But as a guild leader, who needs to track activity, this becomes a nightmare trying to keep tabs on everyone.
Only one mission gave me airs, and it was the claw island one. Otherwise imho I didn’t really notice a challenge/
lol.
I’ve done the 1g trick and have nearly every dye imaginable. And I’m 20g richer than I used to be. Thanks for the UID dyes dropping in prices as well!! Made buying dyes MUCH easier.
After reading the other pages, I think the quickest and short term solution that the OP can do and within his control is to better vet the recruiting process. The OP cannot control that GW2 has few activities that require a guild to be successful run, none of us can change that overnight. But perhaps be very clear about the your requirements during recruitment. Have the applicants submit applications from your website, and have them answer a Yes/No questions “Are you willing to represent?”, and in turn, what benefits can you offer, etc.
I know that you probably are doing this already, but in the end, you can’t control the Human Element that will eventually arise again. People will hop, people will quit, people will move on. Unfortunately, by making your recruitment process strict, you run the risk of losing quality members to the mega, giga corporation guilds who are chomping up every other person out there.
I cannot speak for the OP, but our recruitment process was like this. Oddly enough, of the 20 or so that went through this process, only 3-4 ever still log in on a daily basis. One is what I love to see in a member (always willing to help, always willing to answer questions) and the other three are active, but all in seperate fields. WE all rarely (if ever to my knowledge) have come together for anything. And with each of them individually, I have participated in the areas they are heavily invested in.
Its not that we don;‘t make it plain what we expect of our members…is that with such a ’liberal’ policy, those that don’t care, won’t, and no matter what normal incentives I throw out, they don’t have any guild pride (loyalty) to help invest and make my guild grow…
Logan, oh Logan, forget Jenna…I’m the Hero of Shaemoor!!
@Shinee
I feel there is much to be expanded upon your post, however, there is MUCH in this game that was promised and not delivered (oops, I mean exaggerated to make box sales) and stuff that sounds great in theory, as you mentioned, doesn’t really work as well as intended.
Expanding upon aggro. Aggro is a term ‘core’ MMO’s usually assign to the person who has the mobs undivided attention. This, in a core MMO game is usually the tank, who WANTS it. He not only wants it, but everyone else is trying to pass the buck on to him as well. This works, because you have a centralized character who is pretty pivital in controlling the flow of a fight. If he loses it, ‘raids’ or ‘groups’ can die.
In this game, its like hot potato, if you have it, you immediately want to pass it to the next guy, who dodges it and the next guy tries to dodge it, and if not, tosses to someone else. So on and so forth. The mob doesn’t care, so long as whatever it swats in the mean time goes into a downed state. Then, it is usually pretty content to find the next guy holding the hot potato.
The reason ‘core’ MMO’s have tanks and ‘aggro’ is because for whoever is playing that part (the tank) is usually happy to step up and say: “Stand back, ma’am….I got this!” All the while teh women swoon and titter…“My hero!”
Here are a few reasons its a good thing
1) if your "main guild " only really does PvE and has no intrest in PvP you can have a PvP guild . This way when you are doing PvE you rep one and when you are doing PvP rep the other . I cant really see a down side to this .
2) if a friend decided to make their own guild for one reason or another you could give them a boost in the influence department to get it off the ground .
3) It makes Guild leaders/officers actually have to work to maintain membership . Face it if your not doing your job as officers and leaders ( part of which is establishing a good rapport with members ) your not going to keep members very long .
If you really think about it it encourages community more as you’re more likely to make friendships with more people being in multiple communities .
1) this is how the system is supposed to work, but on very few occassions does it. No guild pride in one or the other or perhaps both (or people are too lazy to switch, or forget. Forgetting is the biggest one)
2) if they are a friend why not join their guild, because, let’s just say..you’re friends??? This logic does not appeal to me.
3) so this game should become my job?? I have to be so busy road-mapping out schedules to cater to you? When does my fun get involved? After I’m busy spoon-feeding someone elses????
NOTE: One thing that bothers me about many an MMO is that somehow it’s become the ‘leaders’ job to organize everything, to make up special olympics for the ‘socially impaired’. I guess this attitude comes from WoW? I dunno since I’ve never played that game, but the sheer fact that it has become ONE PERSONS JOB (notice I said job, meaning WORK, not usually enjoyment, but WORK) to make sure these…members don’t get bored because they couldn’t type some words in guild chat, absolutel baffles me.
I am not your mother, I am a guild leader and upon that I do shoulder certain responisbilities, like making sure the website is operating, that guild perks/buffs are up and running and new ones in the queue, that to a certain extent, my player base is happy, by taking a few minutes to speak to each person personally, as well as the constant task of hitting ‘G’ to see if anyone new has logged in for the last 5 minutes.
But NOWHERE does it say it’s my job to hand walk you through content because you were too lazy to say: “Hey, anyone wanna go do AC story mode?” IT’S NOT MY JOB (nor should it be any guild leaders.)
Within my guild, I have organized many a guild dungeon runs, map explorations, story mode runs, see if anyone needed help in anything, done tPvP and WvW…whatever my guildies wanted to do, I enthusiastically met the challenge and been there for them. And despite me organizing a lot of this, and aiding my members…far too many of them are gone.
I don’t blame the guild functionality, I don’t (but representation has been a CHORE to deal with) I blame the uninspiring content of the game.
Too few of them (1 or 2 in total) came back for the halloween event. If it was just my poor leadership skills, then they would have come back, and just not representing.
“I was going to make a bad salad joke….”
But Trahearne already stole my line…
I am not a good write, but I swear, I feel like i could write a better story than GW2.
IMHO the story (on its own) should be able to take you from 1-80 with no pause in between, except, maybe, to travel (maybe unlock hearts along the way, if you so choose) and your VERY first choice is if you want to aid the garrison (tutorial) or not. If not, you STORY ENDS!! You don’t have this annoying story hanging over your head. Should you say yes, then you can start pick up and drop the story as you please (i.e. if you’d rather explore a few areas rather than lock yourself in a sotry line, then just pick up your story when ready).
After every act, you should get a choice to ‘end’ your story, i.e. be written out of history…like, the claw island you go instead of Forgal (or equivalent for Priory and Whisperers), ways that let you as the player decide just how much further you want to take your progress.
After all, its all about you, isn’t it?? Why not end it when you choose.
ANd every path, every decision, every detail should be focused on you, like it seems to be in the beginning, and every choice leads you down another path entirely, not this…all paths meet then you replay the same old boring story line as everyone else….
I love the feature, I think the real problem is to many guilds have no sense of quality when they recruit members. If you go around picking up trash, then soon you have a lot of trash.
So many guilds will recruit anyone and everyone. Have some standards BEFORE they are in your guild.
Well, maybe this is fair but maybe this is not. I feel like I am being recruited by guilds often, and I join many guilds as well, but I sure hope I am not trash. I feel like trash though, because I am in guilds where there were no vetting process, no quality control, but please don’t blame me, because when you offer perks and advertise, I will take up the offer.
And then if I see the guild does not live up to its expectations, then I quit. Perhaps I am trash, but there are also a LOT of trash guilds also out there.
You are not trash, and if you look for a guild and it doesn’t live up to its hype, I would be teh first one to say: “Hope you find what you like”. I am not upset at the people who leave, nor the ones that don’t log in, its the non-representers. How do you know what my guild is up to, doing, or even talking about when you cannot see? If you cannot get to know us because you don’t see our chats, or we cannot get to know you because you are hiding behind autonimity?? If you accept my guild invite, but don’t represent the guild, how is it my fault as a guild leader, because you weren’t interested in a guild you asked to be a part of.
Part of that is the lack of loyalty. Players don’t really get to know a guild. They join, don’t bother to represent, and then get upset if badgered by ‘us’ the guild leaders when we ask (not demand) that they represent. Again, the decision by my guild to require membership came a long time after we were trying to establish a foothold in the world of Tyria. But oh so many joined, never represented and shot us snide remarks when asked if they would even consider representing us.
Again, its not ALL the guild functionality at fault (and nor is it Guild leaders…unless your that french guild) it is largely due to a large symptom of the game not having a rallying cause for guilds to form cohesive units to take down greater threats to earn your guild reputation and status (even if its…that guild took down XX mob, way to go…..(even if it has been done by other guilds before hand) ) its just a way to attribute a guilds success with their name.
In this game, there is no such…achievement. Not for PvE anyways….WvW might be different.
After deliberating some more, another reason that this multi-guild system doesn’t work (imho). Sorry, this will seem like a rant on the game in the whole, but the symptom the OP is refering to is a direct result of the rest of teh game.
Why do you need to be a guild. You don’t need to be in a guild to:
a) do dungeons
b) do WvW
c) do sPvP/tPvP
d) do zone/map completion
e) dynamic events
f) anything pve related
Without some ‘thing’ out in the world to bring people for a single purpose, most people don’t flock to guilds to be a part of a guild. It’s more to have a tag, or ‘say’ you have aguild mainly. No need to be loyal, to stick around to see your guildmates (or firends) advance.
Erin, again, you’ve picked one thing out of an entire post and not the entirety of the post.
I never said you can’t group with others, or be friends with others outside your own guild, or even go off an do things in your own little pool.
WHat I said, is…if you are loyal to ONE guild, but earn influence for another (100’s of influence not 10 or 20 points in an hour…but HUNDREDS) how can that be loyal to a guild you ‘claim’ to be loyal to.
It is two-faced. Because you can’t. You can say yoiu are helping two guilds, but loyalty…not a strong suit…
Sounds more like an issue with the influence system you have than the multi-guild thing. Would the system be better if you earned influence for more than one guild at once? As it stands now, that person can only earn hundreds of influence if he’s grouped with the guild he reps, doing events or dungeons. I’m not even sure why the quantity of influence that person earns is even a factor. Say he/she earns a million in a day then reps you and earns another million the next… I just don’t see the disparity.
partly…yes. Discussed this with my friend today, if say…you earned 50% of earned influence for guild a (teh one you represent) and 20% for guild b (the one you represented last, or put in a structured priority for guild heirarchy) and 3 and 4 get a split 15%, I guess, yes, I’d be a bit more…I dunno, relaxed in my policy??
Still don’t like it though, because it still doesn’t build a cohesiveness, tight-knit community I was looking for.
@Isslair, I’m sorry for your experiences in other games, but noone is looking to bully anyone here. I wanted to build a community of friends in my game, and aside from what Aenigmo said…about the game lacking compelling reasons for people to log in, the guild tools available to build that social enviroment…that sense of guild loyalty, are lacking. (imho)
(edited by teviko.6049)
We need multi-guild system, if for no other reason, because ANet set a very low cap on the max size of a guild. My guild has several component guilds, and the officers jump between them.
THIS is the only debatable reason for representing multiple guilds.
Thank you Mulch
Yes, I did get to meeting Trahearne, and if it wasn’t for the fact that I hated him for replacing Forgal, I’d have hated him after a Light in the Darkness.
My personal story ended there…I really don’t want to play second fiddle to that celery stalk….And this was before I came to the forums and learned of all the hate directed at Trahearne.
Erin, again, you’ve picked one thing out of an entire post and not the entirety of the post.
I never said you can’t group with others, or be friends with others outside your own guild, or even go off an do things in your own little pool.
WHat I said, is…if you are loyal to ONE guild, but earn influence for another (100’s of influence not 10 or 20 points in an hour…but HUNDREDS) how can that be loyal to a guild you ‘claim’ to be loyal to.
It is two-faced. Because you can’t. You can say yoiu are helping two guilds, but loyalty…not a strong suit…
Well, if the guildie responds to you like that, the system doesnt have anything to do with that.. in fact, thank the system because it let you found someone undesirable at this early stage of the game and not when he is promoted to be an officer. Many guilds in other games have been destroyed because of people ninja the guild bank or similar things. I for example, am not a bad WoW player and some guilds wanted me to play with them, but as I played with real life friends, I never leaved my guild (I run raids with other people but still in my guild). This system allows me to run a dungeon with other guilds (having asked permission to my GM of course), and represent their guild while doing so if they want (especially usefull when you are doing some WvW and your beloved guild is focused on PvE content).
This is where the inconsitency lies…imho.
You stay with your guild out of loyalty. I do not have an issue with this.
then you run a dungeon with 4 other people and represent them while doing it.
Where is the guild loyalty? I get that you are helping them but why not this guild you are supposedly loyal to
Its…two-faced. I chose to stay with guild a because I didn’t get brow beat into staying, I chose to because I wanted to, and I want it to reflect in the form of influence I gain doing activities.
I don’t see how you representing guild b and earning HUNDREDS of influence for a dungeon run reflects guild loyalty because you still, what…chat with them? What is influence if it is not an indicator of a person’s activity in a guild, of their support and dedication??
If influence is not a way to ‘build’ a guild, then why bother having a representation system.
No, there is a failing with this guild system, especially for people who say that they can bounce around and share their influence but are ‘loyal’ to one guild. I don’t see it.
And in the case of some people, yes, it works…but you have 100’s of people in those guilds, with maybe 20-30 core active people across the alliance. It works because there is not mass, not because it’s ‘working as intended’.
Ok, flashy title, but the question is asked. Is it about me?? (or you…just insert yourself when thinking about this).
I chose a human female mesmer (being female myself), of common descent and wishing I knew who my parents were. I am noble at heart, and use dignity to get through life.
However, when the music blared in the background as my character went on and on about how the charr beat us down, drove us back, that we may fall, but we will never surrender, I couldn’t help but get choked up (as I thought back to original GW1). I truly felt as if she were a phoenix rising from the ashes, ready to take on the world.
ACT I/Scene 1: Defending Shaemoor.
This felt a little anti-climatic. As a ’tutorial, there is no tutoring, no amount of help other than an arrow that says: Look! You have skills!! Enjoy your game! GROANS
So, on to the man who says to go to the tavern, because the centuars are invading. So….what about the houses they are burning down, the villagers they are harrassing, that cower in fear from these…mindless beasts?" Yes, I will leave them at the mercy of these centuars as I run to the Inn for safety, then oddly volunteer to help out at the garrison. I don’t get a choice…I can’t ‘opt out of this’ (it’s my story, why can’t it begin here????) so I go, still leaving those poor citizens to their doom.
I’m such a hero, aren’t I?
Then I fight some centuar then join the main bulk to t he defenses. ((Feeling heroic yet?)) and then drive away a chieftain who summons a giant elemntal, and all I hear is one man’s voice above all telling us all what to do. “Beat down those hands, come to me if you need to recover” “Watch out now, it’s going to blow!”
Afterwards I am heralded as a hero….but for what?? Killing a giant pile of rubble?? Seems Logain had it under control all along. I dunno, I feel as if I am force to believe, right here and now, I am a hero…yet…the story wasn’t compelling enough to make me feel like I was one. There was no depth, no challenge, no chance or control to make me believe that I stood out amoung others and did something ‘worth notice’ (like plunging a sword in an Arch-demon’s forehead, knowing that ‘final blow’ would ultimately kill me…unless Morigan was right, of course).
I didn’t elevate myself from the masses, I just happened to be there, and now Logan is in my debt, he’s nice because I am there Hero of Shaemoor???
ACT 1/Scene 1 sets the entire tone for the rest of the story mode, but what gets me is that (in my instance) I go through the effort to find where my parents were buried, and two questions are asked:
1. Who killed them
2. Who buried them.
Do you know what my follow up is??
Go arbitrate between the vigil and the prior. Good day now.
WHO KILLED MY PARENTS, AND WHO BURIED THEM???
Gapping hole in story plot.