Guild Wars 2

eithinan.9841:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Just give us the option to downscale our loot level to match the map level and this is solved. The change pre megaserver may have been wanted but now it isn’t by those of us who craft what we kill not what we buy.

A level 80 with downleveled loot could grab linen cloth or wool quite easily and prices would fall.

I agree, This would make farming the t2-4 mats a lot easier and it would have an effect on undervalued t5 mats as well by shutting down the extra t5 salvage rewards.

tigirius.9014:

The frustration comes from the game going from an all currency (karma) system of buying gear which was way easier and more satisfying because that wasn’t designed as a tide me over in place of the lack of new content that they had (and allowed players to quickly gear up without using that as a crutch to keep people which is far superior to) [as opposed to] the grind they have now for gold for each character for each account across the board instead of simply making karma viable again as a currency.

You can get lvl 80 exotic Karma armor from the temples in a variety of stat choices, this satisfies the gear needs for any content.

Nike.2631:

I think any impulse to create a “T6>T5>T4>T3>T2>T1” set of values for materials is fatally flawed, leaving out the effects on supply created by the distribution of player character levels across the 1-80 spectrum.

If anything its entirely deliberate that lower level character have an easier time generating some highly prized materials – allowing them to get a toe-hold in the economy selling off their drops as they are leveling up.

I agree and would say that it is working as intended, and in my opinion good design.

Ohoni.6057:

Each time they make a change to the game that would significantly alter that relationship again, they would need to also make a counterbalancing change. Long story short, they would not need to micromanage anything unless they were already making a change that would shift the markets, and when they do, they only need to correct for the change they’re already making. It’s sort of a “you break it, you buy it” situation.

I got lost at straight curve.

[Snip, misplaced superiority]

So everytime they would make a change they would need to “make a counterbalancing change” to every other mat to keep it balanced? That is micromanaging. What you are saying contradicts itself, just like “straight curve”.

That’s great that it satisfies you but it’s still not being able to get max gear so gearing is a problem when they have even admitted to the game review websites out there that they went from a really easy system of getting max level gear to a sudden 180 turning it into one of the longest grinds in fantasy mmo development history.

So when silk prices rise like this and there’s a problem with getting enough for upgrading to top tier easily in a game where gear was supposed to be an afterthought there is going to be people who complain about it an just because it’s fine for you it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be the way it is right now.

Several things in this game were supposed to be afterthoughts and not the central focus of the game and gear was one of those things and silk prices and scarcity directly threaten that.

Rauderi.8706:

munki.6402:

Rauderi.8706:

I, too, am embarrassed enough about bringing more new players to the game. The traits are, by far, the most abysmal part of the current play experience, though the NPE doesn’t help with its relatively insulting approach that still does not clarify enough about the game.

I’ve had to steer other people away as well, which is sad, because I bought the way in for two of my friends so they could try the game.

Embarrassed? Seriously? Is it really That bad? You’ve steered people away, yet here you are at the forums offering your two cents? It’s just a kittening game. If you’re a new player, playing without traits really shouldn’t make any difference at all. For vets making alts, yes, lack of traits is pretty annoying, but for a new player the NPE puts you through your paces and prepares you instead of being bludgeoned with all sorts of different abilities and strategically mashing the keyboard once you reach more difficult content. If you Told new players it would suck because they don’t have access to traits right away, then they’ll believe it sucks. As was mentioned by someone earlier, mmo’s are about community. Help people understand and make some friends while you’re out there slaughtering foes. Sounds like a lot more fun than sitting around bitterly “steering people away” from the game. Get over yourself.

Um, wow, thanks for over-reacting, Captain Tirade. You seemed to casually not-read the part where I paid the cost of entry for my friends. They did not enjoy the experience, sadly. So, yeah, get over yourself.

I, personally, still want to love GW2. I have a great guild, and one of my RL friends still plays daily, as I do. Because I care about the game, I overlook the deep flaws, but I will not subject other people to them, especially when I know they won’t enjoy it.

I’ve not played for months now actually I started again yesterday which was the first time in a long long time.

I understand where you’re coming from Rauderi and I too had alot of hope for this game at launch had alot of disappointments but at the same time there’s alot I do like.

People don’t understand sometimes that even though posts might seem negative when we come here to voice our concerns for the direction the game is taking in certain areas that it’s not because we hate the game or hate the people making it, it’s actually quite the opposite really we care enough about the game to put together our threads to let the developers know this is what they need to work on the game to make it so that those decisions that didn’t quite make the cut will be remedied in the future.

They mentioned several things coming several changes and I believe given time the NPE will be adjusted, I’d wait until the patches come out within the next few months to see just where this game is going to improve before passing judgement personally and this is coming from a person who’s been highly critical of many things in this title, I’m not one of the blind walking around that you and I have received nasty replies from here in the forums.

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Not sure why this is a thing considering they announced that the NPE is going to completely change soon from what I’ve read.

I’d suggest sticking around till at least the first patch of the changes to see what’s coming when it comes to traits etc and this is coming from someone who’s extremely critical of the problems this game faces.

You got a quote on that, I haven’t seen this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/4733414

“In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.”

I’m just saying at least wait until the patch to see what’s changed before making a judgement because of this announcement it might change NPE since there won’t be a traits unlock system in the future.

To answer someone’s question on here, the thread is still rising because it’s yet to be fixed and it’s something that’s imbalanced.

It’s a combination of price control to continue the TPcentric nature of the economy while simultaneously being a poor game design by requiring a single resource for all armor creation on every account with no alternatives. The frustration comes from the game going from an all currency (karma) system of buying gear which was way easier and more satisfying because that wasn’t designed as a tide me over in place of the lack of new content that they had (and allowed players to quickly gear up without using that as a crutch to keep people which is far superior to) [as opposed to] the grind they have now for gold for each character for each account across the board instead of simply making karma viable again as a currency.

It would be much simpler to revamp the current system so that A: people didn’t need to craft armors for each toon they could buy them somehow directly B: karma would replace the need for gold to gear up at least on the side of the armor rather than the weapons (they can keep the weapons as crafting only that would be fine) or C: allow the turn in of some other abundant resource (like the dragonite ore) to be used as currency for the harder to get items that never drop because of the anti-farming system in the game, say for the use in buying the insignias that people need to craft armor. or they could make silk not the only resource needed to make ascended armors for the other armor types out there which would prevent that resource from being the end all for the creations of the armors for every character.

Thanks Gaile! I appreciate the updates that is awesome to hear!

Not sure why this is a thing considering they announced that the NPE is going to completely change soon from what I’ve read.

I’d suggest sticking around till at least the first patch of the changes to see what’s coming when it comes to traits etc and this is coming from someone who’s extremely critical of the problems this game faces.

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

So no. Just no.

I believe there were other elements at play that ruined Wildstar. Because both Rift and WoW are successful and do Raids the best in the genre. Action combat likely killed that game.

Actually both WoW and Rift have moved away from raids as their mainstay how many times have we heard from the old schoolers complaining that LFR allows casuals to see content that used to be restricted or complain that Rift added solo dungeons. It’s a known fact that Raids are on their way out. The only reasons WoW and Rift continue to churn out more is because people would complain too much since it would be too much of a change for people to handle and they want to maintain as wide an audience as they can to continue revenue. Not because it’s successful.

People would go through all kinds of growing pains if they knew that raids were completely disappearing from the genre we’d never hear the end of it.

LFR is actually popular feature for WoW because more people actually want to Raid, but cant due to guilds usually having certain requirements that they cant meet. LFR gives them a way around that.

I love Raid Dungeons, but didnt raid since early WoTLK WoW because I didnt want to be bound to a Guild anymore.

Actually the reason why people use LFR isn’t because of wanting to raid in fact as you’d see in their forums and news it’s filled with people who’d rather not like to have to do that to see the content. WoW traditionally doesn’t have a dynamic open world structure and has been coded to be instanced heavily.

So LFR was modified in it’s recent incarnation to allow players who don’t normally get to see that content because they care less about raiding and what raiding represents as a play style and people are complaining about it because they don’t like it that those people are there. They just made it simple right off the bat so that casuals didn’t leave the game earlier because traditionally it would be the third patch before early raids allowed casuals to see the content by nerfing all of the bosses and trash mobs.

I’m not downing what they did but it’s good to be clear as to the reasons why these things happened.

Don’t misinterpret a lazy development schedule for the desires of the players.

That would be awesome! LOL

Bump! must stay on first page! Must be fixed!

And I agree Grenade #1 skill must be fixed too!

If they made combat a bit more like NWO I think it would be fine actually because what we hae there is the ability to make a diverse set of choices even if your class is usually used for a specific set of goals.

The autoattack thing not so much unless he’s talking about adding a new improved AI to the ranger and necro pets which they are in very dire need because the pets in this game are just outright stupid in many cases and don’t really respond well. The first attack on you should instantly aggro them, they should immediately change enemies on the next two attacks of which those that did the higher amount of damage should be what it responds to, and then after that it should watch what the player is attacking until the player is hit by something again, the pets attacks should be buffed as well. I’d love to see a beastmaster option for PVE.

combat diversity is coming though, just wait I have a feeling it’s going to be a whole new game when it comes to combat.

Jerus.4350:

tigirius, do yourself a favor and stop reading what you want to read and take a step back. Roles have always been there, sounds like tehy’re trying to make them more important. What he said was not “Trinity is coming, everyone be ready!” like you seem to have interpreted it as. And, btw, they’ve already started this, look at Silverwastes. Enemies that are more suited for condi (while they ignore the cap issues…), enemies where reflects are key, Enemies where Ranged damage is key. They’re really trying to force the use of alternatives. Thing is in all that stuff… zerker is still an option! and because they ignore the condi cap issues it’s even optimal often against thsoe “condi” mobs…

Wind, every actual example suggestion I’ve seen has had huge flaws, from being unreasonable suggestions of reworking the entire system of the game, to simply unfun changes meant simply to make zerk gear impossible. If I saw an actual fun suggestion I’d be all for it.

I will say I’ve seen some cool things in my time playing games. I always liked the % based mechanics, that will always trigger so no skipping with damage. But that doesn’t prevent zerk, just makes it a little tougher And non zerk is just as slow if not slower.

You and others just seem to not have the ability to actually comprehend anything that anyone is saying do you? At no time in any of my posts did I say that the trinity is coming and you’d know that if you’d actually have read them.

I also find it disturbing that none of you can argue a point without attacking people it’s amazing.

I directly quote someone direct from a recorded interview and you people still can’t seem to do anything other than attack me. It’s right there in audio, and what I actually said is right there in black and while in my post history. Stop trying to attack people for posting the facts and leave people alone. This is harassment like behavior on the part of many of you just because you can’t seem to handle what’s happening.

The game’s combat is going to have trinity like choices on the combat field, it’s in the interview, it’s going to be based off of the changes coming to combat because of the design of the new class and specializations.

Go listen to some music, burn some relaxation candles and breathe deeply but stop attacking me for finding out this information and spreading the word, that’s just not healthy.

Absolutely! More diversity more options more tinity like choices to change up the combat playing field! More options are always better!

So now that I know more diverse roles will be coming, I’d say the only thing left to look at is progression really, can we sell some of these resources to buy things that are extremely rare like materials for example, or can we add events to the system that actually feel rewarding instead of getting useless trinkets or currencies that fill up our bank with no real purpose in PVE? that would be awesome!

Thanks all for helping me find the information I needed those interviews were very helpful!

Lazaar.9123:

tigirius.9014:

Lazaar.9123:

tigirius.9014:

Might I just add that in this interview Jon Peters said it himself “alot of people keep talking about oh there’s just… not roles in GW2, that was never the intention…..We want people to think about their builds.”

That pretty much sums it up for me! I’m now excited for what HoT will bring to the table at launch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Nd4t6XvT8

Likely talking about how some people seem to think there isn’t, when there in fact always has been. But everyone can fill all the roles through their choice of traits, utilities, and weapons. And it will continue being that way.

That river doesn’t lead anywhere btw. If you listened to the whole interview from the time stamp you’d see exactly what he’s talking about is exactly what we’ve been saying. There are no roles, the combat system isn’t where they’d like it to be even he admited that, and in the future HoT will be the ground work where people will have more options and skills that give them trinity like abilities. You all can stop posting now it’s from the horses mouth.

http://youtu.be/xUjrrc5aj2k?t=30m11s

And yet here it says that taunt isn’t going to be like the one from other MMOs, also from a game designer.

Didn’t claim it would be but what it does do is add trinity like options. You’re just going to have to deal with it man, get a support group you’ll be okay.

Lazaar.9123:

tigirius.9014:

“alot of people keep talking about oh there’s just… not roles in GW2, that was never the intention…..We want people to think about their builds.”

You realize that just confirms what I have been talking about, right? Guild Wars 2 has always had roles, it’s just that everyone fills those roles through their choice of traits, utilities, and weapons. Heck, it’s even in the GW2 wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combat

“Due to a diverse skill system allowing for a multitude of vastly different character builds, every profession in Guild Wars 2 is capable of fitting each of the combat roles (damage, support, control) or are sometimes even the result of a combination of them.”

“this was never the intention” doesn’t mean what you think it means, it means he’s confirming there’s a role problem and then later in the interview he outlines the plans they have to remedy it. I suggest you listen to the whole thing so that you can get a better understanding of what’s being said.

Dueling without proper controls pretty much just becomes another way of PVPers to spam PVE players who are either role playing in large cities or doing other things that don’t involve dueling. So no I hope not!

I’m so happy that specs and the new class are forcing changes to the game that allow for more diverse gameplay based on the quotes during the discussion Jon Peters had with MMORPG! It will put to rest alot of the ugliness we’ve seen on the extremely rigid view that Zerker should be the end all be all of the game design and that there’s no room for trinity like choices! Finally!

Ardid.7203:

The major problem here is that people only seems to be capable of thinking in black and withe. ARBITRARY BLACK AND WHITE.

I dont want “the trinity” if for that you understand DPS, Healer and Tank. No thanks. That thing is.. awful.

BUT I don’t want the “only zerker meta” either. That is garbage too.

GW2 doesn’t promised simpley to “not have a trinity”. They promised we could play as we want. What I want is to have a huge amount of viable build alternatives for each profession, a respectable use for each type of gear, and lots of opportunities to use my favorite skills without being utterly sub-par and detrimental for my party.

Kitten trinity, kitten zerker.

I want to make a full Condition Damage build that shine in dungeons, a Flamethrower build that is competitive in PvP, a full Healing Power build that is fun to use on WvW, a CC centered rifle warrior that people doesn’t kick from groups.

I know I’m asking too much, but at least I know I’m on the right track. Keep going if you want, but Trinity vs Zerk is a STERILE argument, and you all know it.

I agree and I’ve not asked for trinity I’ve asked for a more diverse set of options and trinity like abilities I call trinity lite which allows people to put together teams with the trinity options but doesn’t require it.

I’m so happy to see that this will be the future goal of HoT and post HoT that people will have trinity like options using specializations and a revamped combat system.

Lazaar.9123:

tigirius.9014:

Might I just add that in this interview Jon Peters said it himself “alot of people keep talking about oh there’s just… not roles in GW2, that was never the intention…..We want people to think about their builds.”

That pretty much sums it up for me! I’m now excited for what HoT will bring to the table at launch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Nd4t6XvT8

Likely talking about how some people seem to think there isn’t, when there in fact always has been. But everyone can fill all the roles through their choice of traits, utilities, and weapons. And it will continue being that way.

That river doesn’t lead anywhere btw. If you listened to the whole interview from the time stamp you’d see exactly what he’s talking about is exactly what we’ve been saying. There are no roles, the combat system isn’t where they’d like it to be even he admited that, and in the future HoT will be the ground work where people will have more options and skills that give them trinity like abilities. You all can stop posting now it’s from the horses mouth.

maddoctor.2738:

Caeledh.5437:

tigirius.9014:

So when you say that players can max their DPS and they can play the way they want to you’re not being honest about the situation in PVE in PVP that might be true but it’s certainly not true in PVE.

Yes, there’s a truly amazing amount of blatant dishonesty in this thread. Claims which don’t just beggar belief, but strip it naked and beat it bloody.

It’s curious…

tigirius.9014:

So really there is only 1 role right now which is Zerker DPS and that’s the end of it. Just because people choose to use the broken models does in no way mean that it’s balanced or diverse in PVE.

Absolutely.

Zerker is not a role, it’s gear stats
And Zerkers are not optimal nor are they successful without a lot of support so I don’t understand where that comment is coming from, I thought anyone who read the rest of thread (and the other similar ones) already understood that.

Zerker is glass cannon in some circles it’s called DPS which means it’s very much a role. Please just stop if your only arguments are semantics.

Might I just add that in this interview Jon Peters said it himself “alot of people keep talking about oh there’s just… not roles in GW2, that was never the intention…..We want people to think about their builds.”

That pretty much sums it up for me! I’m now excited for what HoT will bring to the table at launch!

I have another thread open talking about how I haven’t seen much about the interviews or footage or even some of the key questions that I’ve had about the games goals and future development especially regarding combat. Someone answered by other thread and I’m happy to say one of the questions like the one I had here in this thread was answered about their goals regarding combat when HoT is complete. So it appears that there will be some attention given to the dynamic that is present in the game concerning the vanilla classes. Here’s to hoping.

The question was answered here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Nd4t6XvT8&t=116

That’s basically what I’ve wanted and seen sort of a watering down of the classes up until the announcement of HoT was to have skills that matter. He mentions going back and looking at core concepts in the design. That’s great imo it’s absolutely needed!

Thanks to MMORPG for asking that question, and thanks to Jon Peters for answering it with such detail!

(Edit: one of the reasons why this has been such a driving force is the problems with the Engineer class in PVE like when I choose to use bombs and mines I want those to matter I want them to bring something useful to the game and right now they really don’t outside of the healing build that doesn’t really scale that has only two options for damage really which is conditions that don’t stack in large groups and are useless against huge bosses, and power that has no crit damage)

Here’s another good quote!

“alot of people keep talking about oh there’s just… not roles in GW2, that was never the intention…..We want people to think about their builds.”

I had missed somehow some of the interviews and I’m happy to say one of the questions I had was answered right here in this portion of one of the interviews.

Arianhod.3485:

AuroraPeachy uploaded stuff too on her youtube channel (vlog of her trip and an interview with Colin)

Kool thanks!

Dav.9152:

Concerning PvE only:
Boss mechanics based simply on pure damage avoidance/mitigation (dodge here, move there, dps in between) tend to be much less diverse and variable. Mechanics that require other utilities to be involved like CC, aggro taunting/kiting and sustained heals tend to be more interesting and dynamic (obviously). The problem is that once these other utilities start to be required, then players will tend to specialize in them and form a “trinity” or square or whatever shape you want to define into roles. It creates a continuum in which more diverse combat encounters will require more specialized players in order to be successful or else it will have to stay a stagnant straightforward fight. If you want more varied gameplay, you need to introduce more varied encounter requirements and force the group to specialize. Some MMOs take one extreme end of the continuum and require tank-heals-dps roles to be filled in order to complete group content. GW2 trends towards the other end and has removed need to specialize, which has resulted in simpler encounter design. That’s the trinity vs no-roles argument.

Generally speaking in GW2, players can max their dps while still maintaining enough healing/support to cover what’s necessary in any given fight so there’s no absolute need for a support or healer role. You can still play one if you want, but it sacrifices efficiency, which is the “zerker vs other builds” argument. There are players who are concerned with optimizing their time spent in terms of profit and success, who will opt for the zerker meta for efficiency. There are players who perfer to do things their own way, build their own builds, play their own roles, who are not so concerned with success/hour ratios and don’t mind finishing dungeons more slowly; they still enjoy the time they spend doing so.

Actually there is only one choice when you look at it and that’s Zerker because of the way conditions have been designed in this game.

If you looked at Rift for example, their ability to stack their DoTs which is exactly what conditions are btw, is not limited. The stacks do not change suddenly because another player who is burst dps decided to use a skill that just happened to have one of those conditions on it even though that player didn’t specialise in that type of damage in their build! There’s also, no problem when grouping in large groups with DoT builds in Rift because stacks actually become better stacks and change the dynamic based on how you spec. There is also the ability of DoTs to have burst damage because critting matters in Rift on DoTs.

Healing has similar issues in GW2 where there is no burst healing because crits don’t matter and several skills on several classes don’t stack properly with the plus to damage/healing type used.

So when you say that players can max their DPS and they can play the way they want to you’re not being honest about the situation in PVE in PVP that might be true but it’s certainly not true in PVE.

There’s also no incentive in GW2 to build an all power build for PVE.

So really there is only 1 role right now which is Zerker DPS and that’s the end of it. Just because people choose to use the broken models does in no way mean that it’s balanced or diverse in PVE.

Gaaroth.2567:

If you are talking about the press visiting ANET HQ 2 weeks ago, all of them released their video already…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-demo-previews/

If you are talking about PAX east stuff, well, is the same as the demo preview, so nothing really new.

After Rezzed this WE the closed beta will start , so very soon we’ll have a skrittload of footage to chew on ;-)

Thanks for the link I’ll check that out I’ve been following the youtube channels and there seemed to be a complete void of information from what I was seeing.

Many an internet personality has been to Arenanet HQ they’ve all mentioned it but I’m quite surprised at the sheer lack of videos about what’s going on in the game especially after the announcement that the NDA will not play a role in the upcoming beta test.

Where is the footage of the experiences these personalities already experienced? Didn’t we pass the day in which that information was restricted a week ago?

Not a single person but one out of those that I’ve followed have posted footage of the gameplay yet and it was limited to just the new PVP experience.

I dunno am I being impatient or is something going on behind the scenes about this?

I think we should look at other titles out there who have the trinity lite as an option and see how they are fairing.

NWO comes to mind immediately.

They have their own version of the Zerker meta going however you don’t have to be glass cannon.

No dungeon is requiring only certain classes (as with what’s happening here with the plate classes and will happen with all three plates in the future if left unchanged)

Materials to make gear aren’t inflated to outrageous amounts and people have the ability to be diverse in their builds and Gear that you can purchase is not so crazily priced it’s beyond hope of a new player of achieving without endless currency grind.

No one is blaming the healer or tank in groups because they know that it’s not a full trinity it works differently than that and anyone that has complained, has been laughed out of their groups for being stupid.

There is no downside.

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

So no. Just no.

I believe there were other elements at play that ruined Wildstar. Because both Rift and WoW are successful and do Raids the best in the genre. Action combat likely killed that game.

Actually both WoW and Rift have moved away from raids as their mainstay how many times have we heard from the old schoolers complaining that LFR allows casuals to see content that used to be restricted or complain that Rift added solo dungeons. It’s a known fact that Raids are on their way out. The only reasons WoW and Rift continue to churn out more is because people would complain too much since it would be too much of a change for people to handle and they want to maintain as wide an audience as they can to continue revenue. Not because it’s successful.

People would go through all kinds of growing pains if they knew that raids were completely disappearing from the genre we’d never hear the end of it.

So I posted about the definition of Role in RPG for those who continue to be ignorant of what it actually means when discussing the electronic or MMORPG version of the genre and people still didn’t get the point so here it is in more clear detail so that people can finally stop spreading their myths.

“Role-playing games also include single-player offline role-playing video games in which players control a character or team who undertake quests, and may include capabilities that advance using statistical mechanics. These games often share settings and rules with tabletop RPGs, but emphasize character advancement more than collaborative storytelling.” ie advancement includes but isn’t limited to combat situations which as we all know in games with leveling through combat is the driving factor of advancement. It’s the driving factor for advancement when you’re in dungeons to complete scenarios and in order to be successful you have to fulfill a role (which sad to say there is only one right now Zerker) and it’s a driving factor for advancement in PVP which sad to say is the only place that you’ll see any semblance of a trinity right now in conclusion my original definition stands because as we all know adding an electronic element to these types of games changed the genre from being limited to just the original tabletop to something much much more.

And you people who support the Zerker who tried to say that I was wrong when I defined Role in roleplaying the way I did, you’re not only missing the point but you’re also spreading myths yourself.

Having the trinity as a choice in no way will affect the Zerker meta, it won’t stop people from thinking DPS is the best, it won’t stop people from using the gear and spec they already have, and it won’t cause the game to crash and burn. Please stop spreading nonsense.

I think we should look at other titles out there who have the trinity lite as an option and see how they are fairing.

NWO comes to mind immediately.

They have their own version of the Zerker meta going however you don’t have to be glass cannon.

No dungeon is requiring only certain classes (as with what’s happening here with the plate classes and will happen with all three plates in the future if left unchanged)

Materials to make gear aren’t inflated to outrageous amounts and people have the ability to be diverse in their builds.

No one is blaming the healer or tank in groups because they know that it’s not a full trinity it works differently than that anyone that has, has been laughed out of their groups for being stupid.

There is no downside.

How about dragonite becomes a currency so you can trade it in for Tier 6 materials that you practically have to have a mint to be able to afford in the TP?

I think people have forgotten that these games are called MMORPGs for a reason. The R in RPG stands for Role as in you have a role to fulfill. This game is lacking Roles outside of the Zerker meta which is the reason why these threads have appeared since the onset of the game. They don’t have to make it mandatory but the least they could do is make it an option it’s not going to hurt the Zerker crowd in the slightest if they make it more complex.

They keep saying they want people to group well give people a reason to group that’s what people want.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Zenith.7301:

Embrace The Bold.7619:

tigirius.9014:

This needs to be addressed actually because I think it’s a very real possibility if the development team doesn’t complete the fleshing out of the combat system by continuing to fix inherent combat issues like condi stacking and support weakness in PVE.

My fear is this: That nothing more will be done to completely flesh out the PVE combat complexity by continuing to add to the complexity of combat in order to put together teams that use a trinity system (in which trinity lite is an option but not required) and instead we’ll see groups of all guardians, warriors, and now revenants in these dungeons and if you aren’t one of those three they’ll kick you at every opportunity.

That’s what I see coming unless major changes continue down the path started with the addition of Taunt in PVE.

Support weakness? I wasn’t aware that aegis, fury, vigor, condi cleanse, protection, reflects, regen and might were weak. Support means many things to different people and in this game support is fine. Remember this game doesn’t have healers so trying to be one won’t work well! Also if you exclude all classes except warrior and guardian from the game currently your group is got a very bad comp. However condi stacking is an issue but I doubt Anet will doing anything about it.

Regen is a pathetically weak boon, you shouldn’t include it there.

Contrary to both of your opinions, regen does scale off of healing power. Your healing power. If regen is weak, its because you aren’t equipping Healing at all. I’m quite happy with my 300+ health a second. And I certainly don’t want it based off the Healing of the caster, otherwise I’d be getting everyone else’s “useless” regens.

Actually no, if you look at the math you’ll see how it doesn’t really scale much at all with the plus to healing on many classes, there’s also the problem of no crits. This problem actually affects condition damage as well and has been covered at length way early in the game’s development right after launch when people first noticed the changes they implemented after Nov 2012 when they announced ascended and had not yet started to balance PVP without directly affecting PVE stats and mechanics. It’s well documented.

All these myths aside: They can improve scaling, they can improve burst healing, and they can improve conditions and I sincerely hope they do before releasing HoT because now is the time to improve for all time your PVE combat which definitely feels uninteresting and without purpose.

Tachenon.5270:

maddoctor.2738:

Tachenon.5270:

Indurative observation: the origins of that which eventually became known as The Trinity can be traced back to ye olde original Dungeons and Dragons, circa 1974, with the Fighter, Magic-user, and Cleric classes.

That’s completely false. The “Trinity” with clear defined roles has its origins in the first MMORPGs, something like that was never a part of RPGs. A clear Trinity was never used any type of “Trinity” in any Dungeons and Dragons game, the only DnD edition that tried to “Force” some kind of Trinity was the 4th edition (had some more clearly defined Tanks and Healers) guess how the DnD community called it?

They called it WoW in DnD, and the edition failed miserably to attract older role players that didn’t want something like WoW (and its garbage trinity role system) in their RPGs.

With my many years of RPG experience, I’ve never ever created a party together with my friends with clearly defined roles. “Hey one of us needs to make a Healer and another one a Tank” was (and is) never a part of an actual RPG experience.

That’s very interesting. Nevertheless, the original D&D Fighter, Magic-user, and Cleric classes remain the source — the template, one might even say — of that which eventually came to be called The Trinity.

You’re absolutely right. It’s originally from tabletop RPGs but most of the young people wouldn’t recognize that because it’s really not as popular today as it was years ago, but yes it absolutely predates any electronic game out period!

The other thing I find funny is when people keep spreading the myth that adding it as an option to any game will somehow instantly make it a requirement, that’s not the case several games already have it and their design is better for it. You have a role to play in those cases and it keeps their players coming back and playing more often. As a side note anyone who tries to claim falsely that it’s the fault of the player who happens to be in a support role while doing dungeons is laughed off of the forums because the design clearly places the survival role on the player in the DPS role using the defenses of their class rather than the support role that has some strong healing choices to help control the field.

The exact same thing could happen here but instead we have terribly weak healing roles that make them not viable in PVE and 0 tank roles entirely. A little tweaking to their system in the spirit of things like taunt could improve this game’s pve gameplay immensely without completely destroying the game making it a requirement so these people are really doing themselves a disservice by spreading falsehoods.

xDudisx.5914:

tigirius.9014:

My fear is this: That nothing more will be done to completely flesh out the PVE combat complexity by continuing to add to the complexity of combat in order to put together teams that use a trinity system (in which trinity lite is an option but not required) and instead we’ll see groups of all guardians, warriors, and now revenants in these dungeons and if you aren’t one of those three they’ll kick you at every opportunity.

.

Right now zerker is an option but not required. What is the problem of making trynity an option but not required? Also almost every class can spec for a support role if they want. I don’t see people kicking other classes because of that. Right now we have necro as a useless class for speed runs anyway.

The wvw and spvp meta is always changing. Looking foward for pve changes in the expansion.

That’s a myth on two fronts. 1: we’ve heard and felt the effects of zerker on the community for years now so it’s not as optional as you claim. 2: trinity lite wouldn’t be a requirement with a few tweaks they can make it like the trinity lite of NWO in which it’s not required but is still a benefit because they have the underpinnings of it already in their game (dodging and self healing) but support/cc/other damage types haven’t reached the stage of allowing for it yet.

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

So no. Just no.

ObsidianSaint.1079:

In HoT they are actually introduing a new mechanic to pve bosses that givers a small window of opportunity for control to become useful and stop the wyvern taking off.

Bosses will now have a grey bar that lights up slightly when the boss becomes vulnerable and players must work together to fill up the bar with different control abilities in order to prevent a devastating attack. All conditions and effects will be assigned different values. For example, Blind will add a very minute amount to the bar but Stun will add a rather large chunk.

I haven’t seen to much about support but to be honest I think support is useful in itself, giving buffs to make everyone do more damage is just a massive bonus and if you have the opportunity to do that then that is beneficial to you anyway.

Oh I’m aware of the changes to CC actually and I’m grateful for the changes to defiance it’s an awesome change I really like it alot!

What I’m specifically addressing though is that there needs to be more work on the two other choices in PVE builds which really don’t help the group dynamic much, they are conditions and how they work in large groups and support and how in PVE they are barely scratching the surface of what needs to be balanced properly.

I think, and I know it’s a bit early because we don’t have all of the data, but I think that they definitely need to continue in the direction they are going with defiance and taunt in the direction of having trinity lite as a choice to make the PVE playing field complete.

Right now there are too many holes even with what they’ve changed that I think what we’ll see if they left things the way they are this far, we’ll see all plate groups because nothing else will be preferred and plate will become the new Zerker meta if left untouched.

maddoctor.2738:

Embrace The Bold.7619:

tigirius.9014:

This needs to be addressed actually because I think it’s a very real possibility if the development team doesn’t complete the fleshing out of the combat system by continuing to fix inherent combat issues like condi stacking and support weakness in PVE.

My fear is this: That nothing more will be done to completely flesh out the PVE combat complexity by continuing to add to the complexity of combat in order to put together teams that use a trinity system (in which trinity lite is an option but not required) and instead we’ll see groups of all guardians, warriors, and now revenants in these dungeons and if you aren’t one of those three they’ll kick you at every opportunity.

That’s what I see coming unless major changes continue down the path started with the addition of Taunt in PVE.

Support weakness? I wasn’t aware that aegis, fury, vigor, condi cleanse, protection, reflects, regen and might were weak. Support means many things to different people and in this game support is fine. Remember this game doesn’t have healers so trying to be one won’t work well! Also if you exclude all classes except warrior and guardian from the game currently your group is got a very bad comp. However condi stacking is an issue but I doubt Anet will doing anything about it.

Nah when these people say “Support” they mean characters that provide aegis, fury, vigor, condi cleanse, protection, reflects, regen and might as their “main” playstyle, much like how healers in other games just play the red bar game. I hope they never do that in this game, we’ve had enough “Support” in other games and it’s not needed at all.

Condition stacking is a real issue though, let’s see if they ever “fix” it. Control has some serious problems on Champion / Legendary mobs and they are addressing that with the new Breakbar, might make Control very important.

Support is 100% fine.

Actually what I’m talking about is cleansing with healing that actually scales properly. It doesn’t scale in regen, it doesn’t scale properly in direct heals and no I don’t like healing bars, NWO doesn’t use healing bars however it gives you healing scaling and abilities that allow you to control the playing field properly while fighting in PVE, support is fine in PVP but support in PVE doesn’t really exist yet in this title.

This needs to be addressed actually because I think it’s a very real possibility if the development team doesn’t complete the fleshing out of the combat system by continuing to fix inherent combat issues like condi stacking and support weakness in PVE.

My fear is this: That nothing more will be done to completely flesh out the PVE combat complexity by continuing to add to the complexity of combat in order to put together teams that use a trinity system (in which trinity lite is an option but not required) and instead we’ll see groups of all guardians, warriors, and now revenants in these dungeons and if you aren’t one of those three they’ll kick you at every opportunity.

That’s what I see coming unless major changes continue down the path started with the addition of Taunt in PVE.

I want trinity lite. In which it allows you to put together a team of trinity in order to help play that way if you choose to instead of this we should all be burst glass cannons or worse burst only guardians and warriors and now the revenant (because you know what’s coming next right? We’ll see dungeon runs of only guards warriors and revenants and no other class out there because those three have the higher armor and the higher health pools and they’ll all remain zerker if they do nothing!)

I would like, attacks on all of the pets to be a bit more useful. Like the forest spider has that aoe poison zone, or the lizard from the island has that tail sweep. I find that most pets really have no usefulness and are just basic attackers with abilities that make no real difference. I’d love for someone at Anet to go back through improve pet attacks per family and make fun news ones in the process of putting together this expansion.

Anytime devs make major sweeping changes to their game there is always a chance of losing players because not everyone is going to like the changes.

If they for example continue to fix PVE combat by eliminating the dominance of the Zerker meta I’m sure there will be some people who will hate on that and will probably leave eventually.

Right now however and you can see this with their earnings, they already lost too many of us a long time ago by going in the direction they went with the Island event precursor fiasco economically nerfing farming locations making this game tpcentric and the problems that the current rewards systems create in the game when they use things like DR, they already lost too much which is why most likely they started the expansion project because unlike other things expansion funding can be an engine to change a game in a positive direction.

So far I’m seeing really good things when it comes to what they’ve revealed about the changes, I think however they need to go a step further and complete the picture of the fixes they are implementing. Like Taunt shouldn’t be the end all be all of the expansions changes coming I think they need to complete those changes to make the game actually have more choices for players particularly in PVE. Support has always been extremely weak in PVE due to scaling issues, condition stacking in the open world is a problem has been for years now, condition crits are completely useless in PVE and need to be boosted and if they fix these things they’ll have finally reached the stage that fits their statement “play the way you want to play” when it comes to PVE combat.

TLDR with every change you’ll lose some you’ll gain some, the difference is they’ve already lost too many of us with the way the game is now with the decisions they’ve already made this expansion might just get many of us back if they do it right.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Am I the only one that couldn’t care less about revenant and instead is very interested about specializations? We couldn’t even get a glimpse about them and this makes me really sad.

You most certainly are not the only one! I am not in the slightest bit interested in that class I’m more interested in the changes to the Ranger, Engineer, and Thief and the changes to the combat in PVE. I’m more interested in their throwing out the Zerker meta of the game by making combat in PVE finally at long last work the way it should especially when considering the design of specs like support, and condition damage.

oh lord here we go, expansion hasn’t even been in beta testing yet and we’re already seeing these posts. I swear people won’t be happy until they are single handedly soloing 5 bosses and there’d still be one guy who comes on here and posts about how leet he is and how even that’s not hard enough.

tim.1280:

Killface.1896:

Making gold is so easy,even from WvW give you good gold gain if you good and are farming the other players ;D

You get rares and lootbags. I opened 50 heavy wvw lootbags the other day and got an overwhelming 2 t6 mats. I made about 1g for the hour I farmed.

I really don’t care if you get champ bags here or free login rewards there, that you can sell on the tp…

My main point is that the dungeon gold reward is significantly higher than any other aspect ( whilst getting weps/armor/mats and champ bags, but at the same time it is not particularly any harder and by far quicker. I just think it needs a buff in other areas.

And don’t get me started on how Karma has all but become completely useless in the game on top of the low low gold rewards. Is it any wonder why people with that unlucky account bug get mad and leave the game?! Seriously, it should be no mystery but we’ll continue to hear from the “world poverty doesn’t exist because I have a couple of bucks in my pocket” crowd. Basically this is the equivalent of working without pay.

LOL that would be awesome! Upvote!

serenke.4806:

Yaaay, more gold influx so that inflation can go wild! Good idea.

Hate to be the one to inform you of this little tidbit but uhhhhh yeah, it’s already gone wild. Might wanna login sometime

I’m afraid I have to agree if they wish to keep this game TPcentric as it is and continue to keep key materials under the heel of RNG/DR like they are doing, the very least they could do is increase the currency rewards for gameplay!

“Traits don’t make a difference” is just as mythological a statement as “Tyria has a free market in the TP” and “Ascended only gives you a 5% advantage on stats” it’s simply not true sorry.

OP I too thought their change to the traits system was welcome news!