Guild Wars 2

Puls.5867:

Wether it is or not does it really matter. There are a million comparisons between every MMO out there similar weapon and armour looks similar gme mechanics similar moves similar pvp and PVE environments does it really seriously matter what looks like something from another game? I’ve played a lot of MMO’s and I just shrug and say “if it works it works and that’s all that matters”. If you have played multiple games U will see that ideas are taken from each other and enhanced or used in a different direction. So if it is from wow cool story it doesn’t matter because chances are even WoW have copied something from another game too. Just enjoy both games these “(insert game game name) has copied/cloned/taken an idea from (insert other games name)” are getting really old and boring, just enjoy the game smile and have a good time! That’s what games are for (: ^^

If that were true then my #1 skill for grenades would work more like the grenades for Diablo III’s Demon Hunter grenades, and my turrets would have worked more like those of the Vanquisher from Torchlight 1. The fact that they don’t right now means that not only did they try to do something new but it didn’t work because the class is imbalanced in PVE at this time because of it. There’s a reason why MMO devs take skill effects from other games out there, because they work.

I don’t care if they copied WoW they need to copy a bit more for the engineer class imo.

Zerker maybe? Try not supporting that meta, oh wait you can’t because they still haven’t balanced the rest of the PVE combat systems.. sorry carry one!

ellesee.8297:

Turret builds are bad. This is an indisputable fact. Just because you can’t win against it doesn’t make it OP. Rather than make the #4375927th turret Engi QQ thread, I recommend that you get good son and learn how to beat them from the 4375926 existing turret Engi threads out there. But I’m not some kind of monster. I’ll give you one tip: Stop rushing into 6 turrets on point. Good luck!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Thanks for that! LOL

Almost thought he was talking about PVE for a minute I was ready to pounce and wash away the stupid if he were talking about PVE LOL.

oneply.9586:

run around and throw nades from 1500 range. if you cant run and accurately throw then i can see how you would say they are not ranged.

but ya, engi is mostly a close range attacker.

Diablo III’s demon hunter would like to teach you a think or two about how to do engineering correctly and how to do grenades correctly. Then you’ll see the problems here in this title.

Also, my turrets shouldn’t be as weak and as fragile as my Shaman’s Totems in WoW.

Problem one: I can totally see that as an issue as well. Here we are almost three years later and in order for them to fix something in the core game they are charging twice for it to be fixed. That to me is problematic as well. It’s the equivalent of WoW Charging for WoD to fix all of the problems in their classes that their own GhostCrawler caused when he was “balancing” their game.

I wonder if they’ll be making the new loot system a system that’s locked behind the expansion zone only as well? Or how about the problems with Defiance? Will we be seeing changes across the whole world or only in the new zone locked behind the expansion? That’s also problematic.

Problem 2:

I’m not worried about whether they are calling track tiers horizontal or not I’m more worried that they will turn masteries into the newest grind like they did with the gear system in this game for Ascended. If so they can keep it because I’m tired of grinding being the only way that these developers can try to keep players in their game, it’s entirely unnecessary and it’s very bad form to try to make their game a 2004 model. Grinding should absolutely be a thing of the past, we shouldn’t be seeing grinding in modern developments.

In fact, ascended gear progression, if not fixed in this expansion, will be a deciding factor as to whether or not I’ll be back just as the rewards system will be a deciding factor.

Three things will get me back. The removal of DR/fixing of rewards from the loot system (we should be able to farm materials), the fixing of the grind system for ascended gear/karma revitalization, and the rebalance of the classes especially fixing the problems caused by early balance decisions for classes like the Engineer in PVE that have never been fixed. I shouldn’t have to use flame thrower as the only viable means of fighting because rifles, grenades, and bombs are somehow the devil meanwhile the favored class is still allowed to solo 5 mans.

These are the three core concerns for the game that have made it impossible for me to play it at this time. Here’s the hoping they come to their senses.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

They should have been removed 2 years ago.

This so much this! ^^

Ralanost.8913:

tigirius.9014:

Actually it’s not fun or necessary and there are precedents showing changes made to the gliding mechanic in other titles out there to eliminate this bar. There are several from Archeage to Aion to WoW none of them use this method anymore because of the problems that come along with having a limited amount of time being airborn. They do however have dismount mechanics in which someone who is hit by an attack takes them out of that gliding mode so there is that to consider if they really wanted to limit it during combat or PVP that would be acceptable but not allowing people the ability to glide endlessly while airborn just makes it less realistic because look at real life here, if you get on a hang glider and you get airborn it doesn’t suddenly retract because some invisible meter that is giving you a limited time use and make you fall to your death. Also, hang glider riders always have safety measures irl now like parachutes if something goes wrong they can open one to catch their fall.

If they implement meters they need to at the very least provide straight down parachutes to prevent deathgliding. It’s only sensible.

You are looking at it all wrong. This isn’t a means to explore. It’s a means of getting to places normally inaccessible to you in specific maps. Think of it as earning the right to use it via masteries to get a jumping puzzle to a new area. It’s really no different than that. You are trying to make it something it isn’t designed to be and the game can’t support.

Actually the game can support it and before you reply to this post and say things like they don’t have enough time or money let me remind of you three things. The complete makeover of FFXIV, Blizzard adding flying to the old world which was a complete remake as far as coding and they did it during an expansion development period, and the complete redux of the flying mechanic in Aion in new zones.

History shows us that it is indeed very easily possibly for the coding to be complete if not by launch then just after it.

Actually it’s not fun or necessary and there are precedents showing changes made to the gliding mechanic in other titles out there to eliminate this bar. There are several from Archeage to Aion to WoW none of them use this method anymore because of the problems that come along with having a limited amount of time being airborn. They do however have dismount mechanics in which someone who is hit by an attack takes them out of that gliding mode so there is that to consider if they really wanted to limit it during combat or PVP that would be acceptable but not allowing people the ability to glide endlessly while airborn just makes it less realistic because look at real life here, if you get on a hang glider and you get airborn it doesn’t suddenly retract because some invisible meter that is giving you a limited time use and make you fall to your death. Also, hang glider riders always have safety measures irl now like parachutes if something goes wrong they can open one to catch their fall.

If they implement meters they need to at the very least provide straight down parachutes to prevent deathgliding. It’s only sensible.

Donari.5237:

They cannot put gliding in the old world. It will break the maps. They have said so. Thus all the updrafts in the world won’t let you soar.

I don’t care if they don’t add updrafts but they should absolutely add slowfall elements to the hang gliders because it’s a must. There are several places in which you are on a high area and you need hang gliders to get down or a parachute! (missed my parachute as an engineer)

If they have instalevel options then they are paying attention to at least one aspect of MMO life that’s necessary when you are in a game where your progression is directly tied to the max level you can be. So I applaud them if they are actually doing that. It’s very much necessary, and in this title where zones reduce your level to match the mobs, i think there will be far less of an impact as we’ve seen in other titles out there doing the same thing with leveling in expansions.

I am surprised to see this actually.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I’d like to see really challenging 1-player vs. Mob battles that aren’t about hitting the enemy for 20minutes but rather about good avoids (like the battles in Queens Gauntlet).

It should be an instanced gladiator arena in the open world (so that others can easily spectate) with invisible walls.

To take this a step further, you could fight against a variety of enemies, e.g. an enemy (rare spawn) you find in the open world.

• adventure starts: you have 20 minutes to find a worthy enemy in the zone
• when you’ve found it and want to challenge it in a 1vs1 you mark the enemy with an environmental weapon
• a npc-warband captures that enemy and prepares it to battle you in the arena
• scoring:

the stronger the enemy – the more points you can achieve
the faster you kill him – the more points you get

That would only further exacerbate an already terrible meta of Zerker we don’t need more Zerker thanks…had plenty now.

Toepac.9076:

Soooo,…. am I the only one who liked the stream?
Am I the only one who apreciates the open attitude of the developers and the constant updates so shortly after the expansion anouncement.
I personally find half the posts in this thread far more insulting than anything said in the twitch chatbox that evening.
Learn to have some patience people, more information will come soon.

And great job on the livestream, Big fan of PoI format

Open attitude would have included more data or at the very least they could have picked several good questions to go over on these events and answer those, there are plenty here in the forums that are really really good questions

inb4 someone makes an excuse…..oh too late!

Yeah I agree OP if they still haven’t fixed the inherent problems with combat by then there’s a serious issue!

Five classes is enough for me. I won’t be making one!

nGumball.1283:

They showed nothing more or less. Re-said already known information and basically stood in the same area for 30 minutes while chatting.

Glad I missed it then! That does sound boring and I don’t blame people for being bored also. Twitch isn’t there to be a youtube video and sadly youtube reviewers do a much better job even when they have alot of stuff to say about a product, this team could learn a thing or two from people like woodenpotatoes it seems.

If they do what I think they are doing, I think this might actually be the best news out of all of it. Because gone will be a problematic portion of the grindy nature of crafting! I just hope they replace it with something sensible, sensible as in the decision to make switching traits free. That kind of thinking is absolutely welcome imo.

saalle.4623:

Every MMO come after GW2 was “Gw2 killer” and they all succeeded just to be “game i play wile im bored of GW2 and waiting for content”.All those games failed and dropping in community rapidly,wile GW2 stands on the top after WOW.Now haters are finding new games to “kill GW2”,but they will end up the same.

What those “haters” don’t understand is that GW2 have community size of millions and that most of those who dont play anymore just wait for something exiting (like expansion).GW2 still have huge playerbase and with launch of HOT it will explode.Nuff said

That was certainly true at launch but I doubt they keep more than 1 million logged in at any one time anymore considering the severity of the holes in it’s current design and activities. Doesn’t take a hater to login and see how few there are there now as demonstrated by several new players over the course of almost three years now.

Considering the sheer lack of players this game has compared to launch I’d say there are several that others are playing right now that make the world an empty place and this is from a server that is constantly “full” preventing transfers.

Oh and that phrase “the only game that will kill gw2 is gw2” can only be used if you have 10 million players. sorry folks doesn’t apply here.

Lheimroo.2947:

Honestly, the problem back then wasn’t that GW2 had launched with no gear progression. It had launched with no progression of any kind, let alone the horizontal stuff we were expecting. Anet did get one thing right when they claimed the ‘effort gap’ between easily accessible exotics and legendaries was too large to motivate people.

It’s not that ascended exists, necessarily, that’s my problem. It’s the fact that they had to make it a vertical progression rather than a horizontal one. It did and always will seem like a cop-out to me.

Masteries may end up fixing that.

That actually wasn’t a problem for anyone but the 1%ers, you know that small group of gamers in every MMO title that scream “harder” and “too easy” everytime they say anything at all! Yeah those. I find it funny that now that the game has been out for several years they keep saying the nonsense “this game has done so many things differently” when in fact it hasn’t.

Crafting is the only way to gear because of time gating, there’s a grind to get materials if you can actually find a non-nerfed location, if you mention it in a video or in forums it gets immediately nerfed, which then sends you to grind for gold until that gets nerfed, and this is all while trying to avoid the DR monster (DR is some thing that’s actually taken down whole games and game companies before with a similar billing model as this, you know a real money auction house is basically what’s being run here).

So really many of these things are not new, they certainly aren’t innovative and the fact that they are continuing on tells me that either the mistakes they have made have locked them into this or it’s true that the shareholders are the drivers of development and not the development team.

When it first launched, I could find meaningful treasures in explored treasure boxes, I could get meaningful max level gear and runes/sigils from karma, and karma was easily obtained doing normal activities instead of grinding for everything, oh and if you did need something or just wanted to login and farm, you COULD there wasn’t anything nerfed or holding you back, and there certainly weren’t special lucky accounts that got all the drops, loot was awesome. THAT was the innovative time period before everything converted back to what we’ve all seen before in hundreds of MMO titles out there for years.

Astralporing.1957:

tigirius.9014:

Myxam.2790:

A lot of people are missing the fact that we’re already playing what is essentially a Specialization.

Yes and we’ve seen how well that’s turned on in PVE haven’t we? Maybe if they add more they’ll get it right this time because frankly as an explosive engineer I’m tired of throwing out one tiny gimpt mine, having mobs dance all over the ones from the traits and never set them off (like giant mobs do that all the time), and the fact that the radius of explosives is still the same radius as a dagger yet warriors with a two hander are able to solo 5 mans.

I think 2 new specializations per class isn’t too much to ask at launch. (considering the size of the team now and the amount of funding these expansions usually get in order to complete their task.)

Out of curiosity. how exactly one more specialization would help in your case where a single one wouldn’t?

It would allow for more choice options say just after launch they suddenly decide as they did with this class that it’s somehow OP and nerf an entire category. At least we’d be able to play some other specialization while they spend years sorting it out if they ever do.

Two specializations would also require that the team rebalance the class a bit more so than if they had one which might force their hand in trying to figure out all of the things they did wrong on the non-specialized portion of the class and it’s abilities.

Lazaar.9123:

Hylox.9746:

yeah sometime i feel like watching anet’s manifesto video and when i do… i feel like i’ve been lied to cuz most of the features talked about in that vid never made it into the game

You know that’s the case with, pretty much every game in development, right? There is always things that don’t go as planned.

Not on this scale however. This game in comparison to the other AAA titles that have both been released at the same year, and that have been released SINCE have at least had almost all of their features they mentioned just prior to launching during their own beta. They didn’t cancel the sheer number of projects this title cancelled suddenly after launch. Most of them have had their launches have technical issues yes but what they were saying about what people would be able to do remained intact. This title however not only went through a period just after launch where several really great projects suddenly went down the toilet, but they also didn’t update the game as they had mentioned in interviews, and they had a second round of promises 10 months ago that never made it into the game where they only fulfilled 1 (the precursor coming in the expansion). There IS a difference here. There IS a problem with honesty here.

Myxam.2790:

A lot of people are missing the fact that we’re already playing what is essentially a Specialization.

Yes and we’ve seen how well that’s turned on in PVE haven’t we? Maybe if they add more they’ll get it right this time because frankly as an explosive engineer I’m tired of throwing out one tiny gimpt mine, having mobs dance all over the ones from the traits and never set them off (like giant mobs do that all the time), and the fact that the radius of explosives is still the same radius as a dagger yet warriors with a two hander are able to solo 5 mans.

I think 2 new specializations per class isn’t too much to ask at launch. (considering the size of the team now and the amount of funding these expansions usually get in order to complete their task.)

Brother Grimm.5176:

I have no idea what the OP is on about….I solo almost all of my playtime and only party up for World Bosses (in case I get DCed).

I guess I’ve been screwed for the last 2.5 years and just don’t know it.

We’re all glad you have one of those speshal accounts that actually gets drops on your characters when you solo something, most of us don’t however which is part of what the OP is discussing.

nGumball.1283:

1. There is alot to explore.
2. You can solo almost everything in the game, people have been asking for more challenging group content for ages.
3. Do you await Anet to revamp their entire game?, also, none said they are not going to do additions however it makes 0 sense to change exicting maps when the old content start to disappear, we have seen in with LS1 and with WoW, people HATE when the developers replace content, it just means that new players will miss half of it.

4. Weapon and armor skins and their looks is subjective.

5. Because PvE is too easy and you can faceroll everything.

Also, for your information. GW2 has some of the most populated early-level maps in the MMO industry and no that’s not because of the mega-system but rather because how the game works.

1: not after you’ve explored it, the rewards are terrible and never change.
2: You have more challenging content without trying to ruin it for the casuals who are responsible as the group who funded this game and were the reason why they had to pause online sales.
3: Anet themselves have admitted as a sales pitch that open world event systems are easily upgradeable and to manipulate because of that fact they are able to do things more quickly change things and upgrade them easily. The fact that they haven’t speaks volumes about the integrity of the situation or lack thereof.
4: No they are not, it’s true that not everyone is interested in fashion but it’s a well known fact that people never want to look bad even virtually, ie wardrobe, it would have never been put into the game if they were ignoring the psychology of people. However, the psychology they are ignoring is the aspect of mmo gameplay that requires a reward structure, it’s absent from this game.
5: Yes if you’re in all Ascended gear which requires grinding.

Just put on Zerker gear and spend more gold, don’t worry about anything else, it’s all just in your head…

That’s what most will tell you when it comes to that. There were so many plans that were being mentioned from BWE3 – Launch day that were suddenly canned that even though they increased the size of their developing team tremendously still couldn’t churn out. Remember mobile apps?

I completely agree with you OP I do. I thought this game would be rewarding, I thought exploration would have updates, I thought open world would be the focus (until I kept seeing instanced five mans for LS), and these thoughts didn’t come from nowhere, they weren’t my ideas they were all based on what the prelaunch interviews were saying all the way up until launch day so it’s not like this was a concept from 7 years before launch or something.

I agree. I think the game needs to have at least two to begin with especially if they are releasing this somewhere around November, that’s plenty of time to increase the size of your crew to get it done. Even the Asurans know that.

If they release one I think people will feel cheated because it doesn’t really offer much in the way of choices. Two per class would be wiser because it allows alot of choices.

Unless they have planned a Jan or Feb release of a major patch right after launch that would have a second specialization choice per class.

I think it’s funny people are trying to now say that there’s only a tiny bit of the population who can’t stand the ascended grind. That may be true NOW with the game going on 3 years coming up, but it wasn’t before. How many millions of players did they lose post the Nov 2012 I wonder, remember all those people who were purchasing the game before this announcement, people they had to actually STOP the digital purchases for because there were so many they couldn’t keep up? Remember those people? Yeah I highly doubt that this title still has the estimated 5 million from sales it had at launch and I suspect it’s directly due to the ascended grind. This is based off of the huge reaction to it 2 years ago. So you can misrepresent the numbers all you want, it was not only unnecessary, it also went against their philosophy, and it caused huge swaths of players to leave, and even if it turned out to be 500k players that’s a big deal, that’s 500k wallets that won’t be spending a dime in the store for either gem-gold conversion or the items they have in the store for cosmetics. That’s a huge amount of revenue!

Let’s look at one of the other titles out there who recently had a grind RNG philosophy. Destiny. Oh wait, they recently had to change that because just like Diablo III they lost tons of players too (which hurt them more I suspect because they are a sub only title).

Historical fact trumps propaganda and pr any day. Demand has spoken, let’s see if wisdom prevails when it comes to supply.

Seeing what flying has done to another game I like makes me say no. I do however enjoy my engineer profession on that other title. (because it has goblin hang gliders) and I love that aspect of the game because I need it to get to certain spots for hidden treasures.

I would have to say no to flying mounts and yes to gliders, although I wouldn’t mind some gadgets to attach to my boots, belt backpack etc to allow me to swim faster as an engineer.

Some of the questions I’m seeing are actually in the FAQs list.

They already answered that you do need the base game to play HoT.

They already said HoT will only start out with on specialization per class.

Soon is the detail at the top of this forum on when the reveals will be coming but there is mention of a large amount of information in press events explaining it all by Gaile.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

nGumball.1283:

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content.

Myst Online, but that’s such an utter outlier that it is in a category by itself.

Anyhoo, grind…

I think the distinction between Grind: repetitive/time consuming actions required for game advancement vs Farm: repetitive/time consuming actions for optional game enhanements is a super important one.

There’s not a whole lot of gameplay dependent Grind in GW2. All of my 80s have gotten through their LS without an ounce of Ascended gear, most of them with only one or two pieces of exotic gear, and almost all of that from drops rather than crafting or purchace. (I’d even say there was more of it in GW1- there were areas you could not complete without having to go and get specific elite spells.)

On the other hand, even though crafting technically falls under the “Farming” category, it absolutely 100% is the most grindyest activity in the whole game.

Spending time gathering materials to make repetitive items (90% of which you will delete, because the market is saturated with them, even after you set aside the ones you will use) just to be able to advance to the next level of materials (at which point the previous level of materials becomes completely useless), where you repeat the exact same recipies, to make the exact same series of items, just with fancier mats. No wonder people who decide to craft things feel like their game is grindy, because it really does qualify- even though they’ve chosen to “Farm”

The only crafting dicipline that isn’t a fixed, linear grind is Cooking. At least there the materials you gather throughout the game are useful at all levels, the recipies aren’t blatantly predictable (so you’re actually discovering things) and you don’t (usually) end up with piles and piles of the same relatively useless item just so you can get to the next level.

So, yeah. While ANet is correct in that that there is very little “Grind” required for gameplay, their “Farming” and crafting mechanism is EPICLY grindy.

Edited to Add: SO points out to me that another major facet of “Grind” is the sense of high effort-low reward, very low enjoyment. Most ‘grind’ feels like it is pointless repetition.

Have to agree with this. When I say grind I mean enormous effort for almost no reward. Even Arenanet cannot make a statement that says they don’t have grind when using this definition because the entire game is based around the philosophy economically.

When I say farm, I mean doing repetative activities to gain a specific set of rewards in a reasonable amount of time, like gathering ore. If you want to talk drops I’d say they have the ability to farm items like greens and blues but as these items are largely useless even from a crafting standpoint much less one in which someone can use the materials from these items to make massive amounts of gold (haha) they definitely DON’T have farming in this game. They were very very successful at killing farming at the expense of a rewarding gameplay design.

For example, certain types of leather are near impossible to farm even to the last day I logged in, they were mid level types of leather, so if you were a gold farmer forget it. The same went for certain types of gems in gem cutting. I was amazed that these items stayed relatively rare even though they were common items needed for crafting for the past number of years.

An example of farming would be in other titles, like I can go out right now and do specific things and I’ll know I’ll get garrison resources. I can go out right now and do specific things and I’ll know I’ll get dilithium, both 100% of the time from these other two game titles, but not here. Here not only do we have RNG to deal with we also have RNG within RNG (the chance for bags to drop and then the chance for certain items to drop) AND DR on top of that.

Lazaar.9123:

This feature would be abused very easily.

Not necessarily if they limit the number of times someone can downvote someone per account, AND made it so that people who downvote too often have a label of their own or an icon indicating what’s being done there. They could also simply label this feature as a reputation system. It wouldn’t actually do anything (much like their ignore feature does now when people try to harass others in game) but it would give people an idea of who they are dealing with. I think they should make it a bit more advanced in that it’s not allowable but once a day and it’s not allowable but every three months for the same person and it shows things like the number of times this person votekicked people or the number of times they reported other players which would give players an idea of what type of person the reporter is as well. It’s already being done on consoles actually and it works as a means to make public knowledge those people who like to abuse the system in this manner or act ugly towards others. Equally people could upvote people in a one time fashion without a time delay which would mean they could upvote their whole guild if they wished individually. The reason I’m saying if they used these types of rules and tracking systems is because people who act like that rarely have alot of friends and they aren’t very popular.

I think another rule would be an inability to upvote or downvote while in PVP or WvW.

I don’t see a problem with that at all so long as it does nothing to actual gameplay.

Crion.8465:

Will engineers finally be able to get rid of our hobo sacks? (AKA kit backpacks covering back items)

Excellent question!

Will mines finally fall with some kind of sensible useful pattern to them?

Will mobs no longer be able to dance all over the top of them without setting them off?

;)

A little diddy about why I log into another AAA game right now (this is related to the topic I promise and it does have questions, bear with me). I log into this other title out there right now because there are non-combat things for me to do. It doesn’t exactly have housing but there is a base, it has fishing so I can appreciate the beauty of the world (I just found this afflorescent location today that reminds me of that glow in the dark forest scene in Avatar the movie), it has advanced crafting which allows me to go back and make the things I’ve always wanted to make but in previous expansions they were considered top tier pre-raid gear so I could never find the resources, and it has open world chests that drop useful items or resources that you can use like currency (gold in quantities that are very much generous).

Will the team be adding things like this in the expansion?

Will they have a lore related collections system like another title I didn’t mention above?

Will they add meaningful rewards to chests found out in the field like currency (gold)?

Will the team be putting non-combat activities in the game like fishing (complete with props, special fishing rods, costumes, mini pets)?

The last time I had to do a transfer for someone who was struggling to get in was when the game launched and there were millions of players on all the time everywhere, I did it by setting my alarm to 4:30 am EST logged in immediately and was able to transfer because at that time the server didn’t say full it was the next step down. Hope this helps.

Will the team be revisiting the way they handle rewards and loot in the game to eliminate the TP centric nature of the gameplay as it stands now when HoT is released?

Will they be changing the options for the number of ways that players can get the same level of gear?

Will they be revitalizing the use of Karma in a major way in gear progression to bring it’s usefulness back in regards to Ascended gear?

Will they be improving how players have access to certain sigils and runes to eliminate the top tier monopoly going on with these enchants in the TP allowing new players the ability to build said gear up as they level?

Hamfast.8719:

ColinJohanson.2394:

The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear.)

But you do have to craft.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again

Crafting is doing the same boring activity over and over again. And we are required to do it in order to get the Ascended gear we want. I’ve been able to level my crafting following online guides, but I’ve never gotten the hang of it. And sitting at that table in town scratching my head frustrates the hell out of me. I am not alone in my hatred of crafting.

I have no issue with attaining the materials. It’s knowing what I need and then putting them all together. The only Ascended stuff I’ve been able to get is Trinkets/Accessories. I would love to be able to get weapons, and to a lesser extent armor.

Please, PLEASE. PLEASE can’t you develop a system for those of us who despise crafting to get Ascended gear? (Clue: RNG is not a “system”).

Not to mention that people who play dungeons and WVW Have to get this gear to remain competative as we’ve seen in the kinds of players who run these dungeons and the kinds of players who run WvW and sure people can come on here and say that because you’re in a group in WvW you don’t need it but the fact remains as any Esports person will tell you that if you don’t have that gear you can’t remain competative and they know it to be true. If Anet wants this to be all about Esports then need to make the game fair and it’s not right now.

DavidH.7380:

Touche Amore.2083:

Easy, each time you don’t get a drop fitting into a category rare/precursor/asc drop, etc, your chance of getting said drop is improved each time until you ultimately GET THE DROP. At which point the timer resets.

Rambodacious.7495:

Hope seems to be an inherent quality of us humans. I suppose that’s why gambling is so prevalent – everyone wants to be the lucky one. However, as you pointed out, in a truly random system, like GW2, there are “losers,” through no real fault of their own.

By allowing people to build up some kind of resource to eventually get what they’ve been denied, you allow the luck/hope element to still provide the thrill of the hunt, while diminishing the justifiable frustration that would arise from a player killing Boss XYZ 1000 times and walking away empty-handed.

I like the idea presented in the first quote for the reasons given in the second. I think it retains the thrill of and the hope for getting a lucky streak, while also minimizing the possibility and effects of getting an unlucky streak.

The other options would be my second choices, but I think there is more risk of reducing drops to a pure pre-determined numbers grind along the lines of, “I’ve killed 92 world bosses so far, so 8 more more and I’ll get a ticket for or have enough tokens to buy X.”

I think the numbers being finite are superior.

Let me tell you a story about an expansion called Cata. As a hunter and a shaman getting gear in the lobby instance game was important and there were extremely few choices for extremely few gameplay styles. I was forced to participate in instanced dungeons with complete strangers most of which had the personalities of rocks in a mudslide. After running the same dungeon (the only one with any kind of upgrade to the shoulders I was wearing) 50 times I finally gave up and went online to see if others had the same issue. Sure enough, at the time this particular game had a terrible bug when it came to those exact same shoulders. The suggested solution? Play PVP until you got enough points to buy second rate shoulders ones with a high enough gear score to get me into the only other progression that existed in that game at the time, raiding, so I could see the content locked behind this type of gameplay.

That was two expansions ago. Since I’ve joined back with that game, I’m happy to say everything regarding progression is spread out across crafting, instancing, a new easy type of raiding called LFR, and a currency you collect from doing dailies.

I am absolutely much happier because as a player I have multiple choices in the matter for the same level of gear. I am no longer locked behind a seemingly unreachable goal should I choose to play LFR raiding to see the content, and instancing is no longer a requirement to progress, I’ve yet to step into a dungeon which I totally thought this title would be!

Because of their loot system here and DR dungeons seem to be the only place I can actually receive any drops that are worth anything and even then after fighting a certain set number of mobs DR starts in, I deal with that along with the growing nasty nature of pug groups when I’ve tried to play this title because it’s seemingly stuck in the 2004 mentality of “group only content or else” which isn’t healthy. It wasn’t healthy for Cata it’s not healthy today there needs to be more choices for loot, more for progression, and these goals need to be finite they don’t need to have lottery chances.

Ayrilana.1396:

aspirine.6852:

Well Anet, how about you discuss this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-just-opened-13985-bags/first#post4755387

How do you even try to explain this utter crap what you call drops.

If they increased the drops rates to how people want them, those highly valuable items people want would eventually no different than the blues, greens, and rares that people common toss aside and consider “utter crap” drops. If everyone had easy access to everything, like you would in a single player game, how long before people get bored and stop playing?

Unlike many other games, GW2 also has a loot system where everyone gets loot and the rolls for what they get is done individually. You don’t have it where in some games people form a raid and then have to decide who gets what using a DKP system. Doing all of the content is also infinity easier than in other games and you get so much more opportunities for loot.

These are just a few of the reasons why we have what we have in this game. Would many people still be doing Silverwastes if everything had a near 100% drop rate? Even at a 50%, a large percentage of people would have all of the drops. What reason would they have to continue playing that particular content?

Actually I’m going to have to call you out on that misconception. You see in GW1 there were goals you could actually achieve. You could actually do certain things to ge tgear you wanted. You could actually do the things to improve your character skills. There were direct rewards for said actions and there was none of this endless grind because the loot system has a double RNG standard. One is the typical algorithm designed to make it more difficult to get things, the other is an algorithm specifically designed to prevent you from getting things after killing a set number of mobs, it’s called DR.

From my research, GW1 never had DR. It didn’t cause whole accounts to suddenly stop allowing drops as we’ve seen here for years on this game now. It’s never made whole chests disappear from dungeon runs as we’ve seen here in GW2.

Also, it’s a complete overstatement to try to make it seem like people want these drops to be 100% that’s not what people are asking for, people are asking for reasonable. This system is so far off course from reasonable you might as well be playing a chinese lottery game, it is that bad! And as we’ve all seen these types of loot systems never produce popular results when it comes to large numbers in AAA titles so until they fix it, Anet will not be getting the benefits of large numbers of players or their income because people are going to get tired of it Expansion or not!

I can tell you that if the loot system isn’t fixed when the HoT is launched I will not be spending my money on it because it’s a waste of time. I play games because I like feeling rewarded for my time in games, it’s not rewarding to get zilch from the game when playing.

Jaymee.1560:

I think a lot of this is being taken out of context. I just… wanted to thank Anet, that’s all, and I really didn’t think it would gain this kind of attention. I’m happy that I was able to get my thoughts out there. For some people, this is more than just a simple game. Thank you to everyone who has understood where I was trying to come from.

Most people unfortunately and I’m sure you’ve experienced this outside of the virtual space as I have, don’t understand the choices people like you and I have to make about even the most basic of basics. Things they don’t have to think about because they take their time and energy for granted. Like having to decide whether or not you can clean the house or go shopping for groceries because you don’t have energy for both that day. Or having to try to stay for a visit at a friends house because you are suddenly having inflammation pain.

I suffer from an extremely rare condition known as Eosinophilia. I was hospitalized 2 years ago when it was aggressively attacking my lungs. I’m still on oxygen daily and I am currently searching desperately for a specialist who knows anything at all about this condition so I understand what’s happening.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced these flame wars on your thread. While I don’t like certain aspects of this game and have since decided to sit back and wait for things to change before joining again in key areas, I felt that my reply to your post not derail your thread and turn it into something it’s not. You’re not advocating for the game you’re expressing something that many gamers experience in many mmo environments so I thought I might share that aspect of the post and save the discussion of design philosophy for another thread. I just wish more had in this case.

From someone who suffers from ongoing problems from disease, I’m happy that you found an online space that you can get the support you need because nothing nothing is more terrible than for people like you and I to be alone when we need support like this.

Have you heard of spoon theory? Just curious.

http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

Obtena.7952:

tigirius.9014:

Obtena.7952:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Frankly, this topic should be locked:

1. Anet replied to the concern
2. I think everyone has covered both sides of the topic thoroughly

Not much left. The only reason anyone would want to have it left open is because they are campaigning.

To be honest, the amount of posts help. The circular discussions don’t do anything, but it’s different for ArenaNet to see, “Look, there are 4 THOUSAND posts complaining about traits!” than “Look, there are 8 posts talking about how Defiance sucks”.

Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.

Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of posts does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.

The thousands of people who posted over the course of 9 months across 4 closed by mods threads about the loot disappearance fiasco that we experienced when they nerfed Dye Drops would like to explain to you how wrong you are about that statement.

They could but it would be stupid. This isn’t a bug or something extraordinary. This is just QQing about how the game is intended to work.

As for the rest of you; if the game is work for you, it’s because you choose goals that make it work. IRL, I need to work, ingame, that doesn’t exist. I do what I want in whatever gear I’m willing to get and can succeed and compete. In the majority of situations, Anet does not make it’s players work for the things that allow you to succeed and compete.

They “intended” for loot to be squished to maintain their economic chinese gold farmer setup designed to be hidden behind a clever gem conversion system that continues to fool people to this day. Doesn’t make what’s happening here, a design flaw, any less different that a bug that they finally admitted to after 9 months of waiting. Both were done for the same reasons.

In fact it’s actually being played out on other MMOs out there right now. There’s one popular one right now that’s using a similar algorithm for personal loot, and this dev team that started to use it is also discovering (without the use of DR mind you) that this algorithm is loaded with problems namely, a lack of drops when performing tasks that are usually very rewarding. So you can imagine how that makes this title look, when not only is it STILL not adjusting this aspect of the game but is making it even worse for players by adding a secondary loot decision making subroutine that cuts players off from even having a chance at receiving loot had they actually had a functioning baseline algorithm to begin with. Keep in mind though that this other title doesn’t have a shop and doesn’t have a currency conversion system yet it’s still showing the exact same problems that we’re seeing here in GW2.

History is repeating itself right now in other titles out there, and they are using the mold that this game is using and it’s showing the exact same problems. Tell us all again how it’s just us complaining because there’s plenty of evidence to support our claims even in other titles!

Obtena.7952:

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Frankly, this topic should be locked:

1. Anet replied to the concern
2. I think everyone has covered both sides of the topic thoroughly

Not much left. The only reason anyone would want to have it left open is because they are campaigning.

To be honest, the amount of posts help. The circular discussions don’t do anything, but it’s different for ArenaNet to see, “Look, there are 4 THOUSAND posts complaining about traits!” than “Look, there are 8 posts talking about how Defiance sucks”.

Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.

Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of posts does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.

The thousands of people who posted over the course of 9 months across 4 closed by mods threads about the loot disappearance fiasco that we experienced when they nerfed Dye Drops would like to explain to you how wrong you are about that statement.

I’d love to know this as well because Engis have some pretty essential swap sigils right now I wonder how they are going to handle that

MidNighT.5960:

Q: Is the expansion “buy to play”?

A: Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is a paid expansion to Guild Wars 2, but once you buy it, there are no subscription fees. This means that you can continue playing and access future updates for Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns with no subscription fee.

Oh well….

Actually I’d be very concerned if it were free. Imagine how much worse rewards or the TPcentric nature of the already messed up economy would become if this content were free. smh it’s happened before in this industry.

I think they’ll most likely have kitten price tag on it.

Belzebu.3912:

Yup … if it were to not say anything (besides of when actual info will be given) the stream could be postponed by another week or two and make something actually meaningful.

EDIT:

lordkrall.7241:

Did anyone actually thing that they would give us a bunch of new information on a live-stream just like that?

A bunch of news? No
Any news at all? Yes

Exactly LOL

I’m laughing right now because this is the result of their “don’t say anything” new rule. And why say anything right? because that’ll just mean you’ll actually have to deliver on it, just release vague videos where there’s a hint of something here that people can speculate on but no one really mentioned, and oh we’ll just have a couple of people gabbing about pizza or something. Yeah that’ll work right? ….

But those of us who have been pointing these things out for years now are crazy right?

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Zaklex.6308:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

nGumball.1283:

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content. The thing is, you won’t be able to play it for a loooong time. All of the individual titles in those franchises I played like 100 to 400 hours each. Guild Wars 2 I played 2,500 hours.

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Note, those are all single player games…name an MMO that has no “grind” and I’ll agree you have a point. Otherwise it’s like talking apples and oranges.

P.S. – I put “grind” in quotes because one persons “grind” is another persons “fun”.

play guild wars (not GW2), no grind at all.
it’s all cosmetic and gear is easily maxed out, unlike GW2 where you get spit on the moment you wear rare armor instead of exotic.
GW has white armor as maxed gear, if that was the case in GW2 then you can talk about no grind in GW2, till then grind away.

I grinded just as much in Guild Wars 1 as I did here, to make my skills more powerful. It wasn’t GEAR grind, but it was still grind to become more powerful.

Considering that in GW2 the materials to craft and the drops from bosses are all locked behind a pretty hefty and manipulated (with DR no less) RNG system that statement is a lie. Sorry, but you had a direct result for completing the tasks for obtaining the skills you wanted, there was no dice roll to see if you got it or got some other ability.

The two are not the same.

Vayne.8563:

It’s amazing that we hold developers to higher standards than our own familes.

Oh and I can’t speak for yours but if anyone in my family did what I’ve experienced with this team I would feel just as betrayed!

Galphar.3901:

Why is this discussion even happening? If this thread had been allowed to die like the many that have come before it we wouldn’t have to put up with OP changing the thread’s title 4-5 times.

A-Net has used Waypoints since 2004 when Prophecies came out. They ARE NOT going to change now. DEAL WITH IT.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/10/14/flameseeker-chronicles-the-case-for-mounts-in-guild-wars-2/

This should dispel any other myths this community would like to put forth about the mounts issue in this game.

Seera.5916:

eye floater.7140:

pdavis.8031:

eye floater.7140:

I think that people miss a lot of the content by being able to instantly travel to their destination- if everyone was forced to run, think of all the content that would be brought back to life! Think of the possibilities that would open up! Silverwastes is kind of an example of that, and it seems to be working out just fine.

But people have to go through and experience the content to open up the waypoints in the first place. If you choose to, you can certainly do it again. But being forced to do it over and over after you’ve already done it once is recipe for disaster. Everything in the game is optional, even the first time. But after you’ve done it once, even more so. You completed say all dungeon paths and story on AC. Now unless you want specific rewards (tokens, gold, etc.) there is no reason you ever have to do it again.

Now lets say, in order to do anything in Plains of Ashford, you HAVE to go through AC first. How many people would be in Plains of Ashford? Would it be worthwhile to have to find a group, run a dungeon, just to be able to be get into the zone? I don’t think so.

While this is a hypothetical situation, the principle is the same. No one should be forced to do certain content repeatedly just to be able to do a boss, an event, or explore.

It’s just… A little more running.

And a little more time than I may have on the average day.

Or too far to run to help out a friend do a skill point or a non-world boss champion/event if I’m off in an area not near a waypoint doing something. They may be near a waypoint, but it was a pain to get to where I was due to hordes of enemies in the way. So I don’t want to leave here until I’m done or closer to a waypoint. And this is the only character that’s got a waypoint anywhere near where my friend currently is.

Agree with you there, unless it’s an exceedingly long event they do need something that allows for teleportation to friends or mounts or more speed options for non-aggro dumping classes.

And if they don’t add mounts they could use several skill choices for adding a quick temporary speed boost beyond the 33% we experience now.

It’s great on other titles. For example, on my mage on my other game I have rocket boots from engineering, a talent that gives me a temp run speed boost similar to that (its like 5 seconds of it too), a teleport that makes be bounce forward, and run speed spell that makes me run faster for a few seconds. I rotate those in a macro when on foot and it helps keep me highly mobile.

I tried doing something similar on my thief on this game it’s just not the same really. We need more movement options at the very very least to make characters more mobile.

Gaming in general has helped so many people especially MMOs it’s becoming a new national passtime for many and keeping families in contact with one another. Several stories about millions of players in another title have been out for years and in fact recently a father who lost his son decided to try his sons favorite mmo to learn more about his son’s “other life” and find out what he’s never known about his son. An outpouring of love and support came from that community to help this father with the game and to express their support for him for the death of his son.

http://www.businessinsider.com/dad-tries-world-of-warcraft-after-son-passes-away-players-respond-2015-1

It’s not just limited to that game however it happens in most major AAA games. Friends of mine have spent time with their elderly moms on these games and have fond memories of them doing so, they also had great support from their community when they suffered the loss of their family member.

Disabled people like myself and the OP often find comfort in these communities because we find like minded people or even people who are kind and helpful to get us through tough times especially when our bodies aren’t behaving and we are having chronic pain or fatigue.

To listen to the media however you’d never know that this part of life happens virtually for some, turn on the television and you’ll be bombarded by multiple myths about a gamers life. I once read something that was profound when it came to gaming even though it was prideful it is very much true and necessary to repeat and spread around.

“I’m a gamer! Not because I don’t have a life…. but because I choose that many!”

With the things mentioned at the Pax preview I have a couple of questions.

Will the ui be upgraded to include a system similar to the multispec system? Where one can change the gear/traits/skills according to which spec we choose while out of combat?

Will there be an automatic third option purely for underwater combat that activates the moment we splash and start swimming (considering that there are major differences in underwater traits from the land traits)?