Guild Wars 2

Eurhetemec.9052:

timmyf.1490:

The patch is fine. The community is not. Just my personal opinion.

I’m loving the patch so far.

Unjustifiable opinion, I’d suggest, as it requires ignoring the issues EU players are having entirely (easy from the US) and ignoring the issues the trait changes have caused for new players and characters.

Much of the patch is good. Some is dire. That is not the community’s fault, and it’s ridiculous and insulting to suggest that it is.

I don’t see how an opinion is “unjustifiable.” Personally, for me, ignoring the entirety of the world outside myself, I’m loving the patch. That I took steps to clearly label this as a “personal opinion” was supposed to serve as evidence that I recognize others are having problems.

I think those problems are legitimate. But they don’t affect me.

As others have said here, I think there are relatively simple fixes. Allow players to choose a “community” for sorting – Roleplay, World Bosses, Mega Bosses, Dungeons, Fractals, PvP, WvW, Server Chat, etc. If this can be changed on the fly (and take effect next time you map), that will solve some issues.

Language issues are tougher. I’m sure somebody could easily come up with a better solution for that than I could. It obviously needs to be changed.

What’s less obvious is that the best solution is completely dismantling Megaserver.

I have Pack on my Mesmer. The +125 Precision sealed the deal for me as a cheap rune.

qazqazqaz.2098:

timmyf.1490:

…

There are (obviously) issues with Megaserver. They are (obviously, I thought) in the process of fixing those issues. What more needs to be said?

Very well said. People expect immediate changes to something that came out just a week ago, something that needs data and observing before going all crazy and reverting/changing everything. It’s a longterm plan, didn’t you guys read the blogs they published before the patch?

Personally, I think this all megaserver thing turned out really well, I expected them to roll it out on much slower pace. And there’s not that many issues with it, AND they are working on fixing those.

That said, I was expecting a much slower roll-out and am dumbfounded as to why they decided to move so quickly. Many of the issues would have been discovered had they stuck with 4 or 5 zones for a week… and then we’d only have these problems in those 4-5 zones.

To the extent that ArenaNet made a major mistake, I’d say it was accelerating the rollout so quickly.

Porterhouse.6304:

timmyf.1490:

What you want is a “comment about the state of the game.” No Community Manager worth their weekly paycheck is going to fall into that trap. They’ll deliver a message if asked to, but they certainly aren’t going to start voicing their opinion in the middle of a flame war. (We saw a brief message from the German CM, by the way, but I guess you found that insufficient?)

Even individual developers would be crazy to wander into this.

Realistically, what this community needs is for Colin to come out, take his lumps, and explain to people what the long-term goals of the game are. Again. Because people keep forgetting.

So you’re essentially telling us that this latest patch is so bad that no US community manager will touch it with a 10’ pole?

I don’t think this happens with a good patch.

The patch is fine. The community is not. Just my personal opinion.

I’m loving the patch so far.

I think there’s plenty of server pride and differentiation in NA. Sanctum of Rall, my server, was a pretty populated server in PvE. (Our WvW fell apart after practically every WvW guild transferred when we fell out of T1.) It was overall a very friendly place with decent quality chat.

Megaserver has definitely led to a decline in chat. There’s a lot more negativity and angry-snark (as opposed to funny-snark) going on.

I’ve just hoped that, over time, Megaserver improvements lead to me being placed with a higher percentage of the type of players I enjoy playing with, as Anet has said they intend to tweak the algorithms and add new factors in the future.

Porterhouse.6304:

They can afford to have staff on 24-hour thread editing duty, but cannot spare one comment about the state of the game?

I’m sure you recognize that these are different people.

Community Managers are responsible for enforcing the Forum Code of Conduct. They are doing this by deleting threads and posts where appropriate, combining threads where appropriate, and giving warnings where appropriate.

If you don’t like this, there’s not much you can do, since even commenting on the Code of Conduct is against the Code of Conduct. You can email forums@arena.net, but they’ve practically flat-out said they’re not changing it.

So the CMs are doing their job, even if you don’t like it.

What you want is a “comment about the state of the game.” No Community Manager worth their weekly paycheck is going to fall into that trap. They’ll deliver a message if asked to, but they certainly aren’t going to start voicing their opinion in the middle of a flame war. (We saw a brief message from the German CM, by the way, but I guess you found that insufficient?)

Even individual developers would be crazy to wander into this.

Realistically, what this community needs is for Colin to come out, take his lumps, and explain to people what the long-term goals of the game are. Again. Because people keep forgetting.

(As I understand it…) The goal is to create a game where large numbers of players come together in the open world to take down monsters. Megaserver is a necessary piece of that “large number of players…in the open world” part.

There are (obviously) issues with Megaserver. They are (obviously, I thought) in the process of fixing those issues. What more needs to be said?

AdaephonDelat.3890:

timmyf.1490:

If there’s a statement you can make about how “all” players feel (and I don’t believe you can), I’d say it’s this:

EU players hate it. NA players like it.

That’s the reason I’d guess a ton of you keep saying that literally everybody hates it (on EU). When I ask around, responses are moderately positive (I am in NA).

I’m on EU and I don’t hate it. In fact I’m quite enjoying it.

Oh, for sure. And there’s players on NA who hate it. I’m just trying to figure out why it seems overwhelmingly positive on my servers and overwhelmingly negative on the servers of others posting here. And they all seem to be in the EU. German especially, perhaps?

lordkrall.7241:

Porterhouse.6304:

Anyone who was around after the final Scarlet event can tell you that the population took a nose dive. After this last fiasco with the town clothes and the megaserver I can only imagine it is even worse.

Just like after Update [insert any name here]?
For some reason everyone seems to pack up and leave after every single patch. And yet the game is still full of people.

It’s amazing that people are still here since they’ve nerfed ecto salvage rates for 15 patches in a row!

If there’s a statement you can make about how “all” players feel (and I don’t believe you can), I’d say it’s this:

EU players hate it. NA players like it.

That’s the reason I’d guess a ton of you keep saying that literally everybody hates it (on EU). When I ask around, responses are moderately positive (I am in NA).

I might be crazy, but do weapons seem larger with Asura toons than they did before? It looks like my weapons grow when I take them out and shrink when I sheath them.

Was this an undocumented change from the last patch? Or a documented change I missed? Or am I totally nuts?

Astralporing.1957:

timmyf.1490:

Traveller.7496:

If you want to read a more positive outlook on the Megaserver, check out the subreddit for GW2. People are rigorously downvoting all posts which dare to imply even the slightest that MS could use a tune-up.

Have you considered that’s because, overall, the Megaserver is popular? And maybe the forums are over-representing a very vocally angry minority?

I have considered that. Then i have considered the common response i get in the game to the MS (when people learn they are on one – most are completely unaware such a thing even exist) and discarded your thesis.

While you were busy being condescending, I asked right as Fire Ele was starting. http://i.imgur.com/5194qpB.png

Traveller.7496:

If you want to read a more positive outlook on the Megaserver, check out the subreddit for GW2. People are rigorously downvoting all posts which dare to imply even the slightest that MS could use a tune-up.

Have you considered that’s because, overall, the Megaserver is popular? And maybe the forums are over-representing a very vocally angry minority?

Xillllix.3485:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

These items still function the same as they did previously. In fact, Anet buffed the stats on them. So what’s there to complain about?

That is just not true.

Yeah, there was like a 6% boost on non-critical damage stats. Overall DPS is still down slightly, but they got higher stats in the last patch.

Feycat.4370:

The megaservers do NOT DO what we were promised.

It was supposed to preferentially sort us with others from our home servers. It doesn’t.

In my experience, it does.

Feycat.4370:

It was supposed to preferentially sort us with others from our friends list

You’re right, this is a miss. Hope they add it soon.

Feycat.4370:

and guilds. It doesn’t.

Seems to work for me.

Feycat.4370:

It was supposed to preferentially sort us with people in our party. It doesn’t even do that!

I’ve had no issues with this so far.

Feycat.4370:

It makes it hard to do world events because there are SO many people it’s hard to even get credit.

I’ve run world events several times and never had an issue getting credit.

Feycat.4370:

It makes it hard to do guild events because you can’t cram anyone else into the map.

Agreed.

Feycat.4370:

It makes it almost impossible to find RP anymore.

Can’t speak to this one.

I simply do not have the same experience with megaservers as you and have no idea why.

It sounds like Dave DID NOT have authenticator but the hackers enabled it after they got his account, making it much more difficult for him to recover.

Edit: whoops, got post-happy. Meant to add: if you don’t have authenticator enabled already, you should enable it now. It’s terrifying to me that people play without it.

They need a new system for in-game communication for sure. The news feed on the launcher is entirely insufficient.

I have a suggestion. I don’t know if it’s possible to have different sorting algorithms for different maps, but if so…

For the main cities, maintain one megaserver map per server. Use Party as the top sort method (so your party always stays together), World as the secondary sort. Use no other metric.

This would mean:

1) You still always stay with your party
2) You can join in with party members in their town even if you have different home servers without using guesting
3) Otherwise, you’re placed in a megaserver with your home server. Period.

I feel like this could resolve a lot of the issues people have. For example: I could do guild recruiting within a main city and have a reasonably high chance of only recruiting members from my server.

Serious question for you, Pixie. Do you honestly believe that the Anet developers have no clue that people are frustrated with some of the Megaserver functionality right now?

I find it far more likely that they 1) know 2) are trying to do something about it 3) aren’t saying anything because they’re trying to figure out a fix and implement it as quickly as possible but haven’t fully fleshed out what that looks like or how long it will take.

I started enjoying the game WAY more when I started ignoring the hearts. I’d just run around, explore (by uncovering map, getting WPs POIs and vistas), and kill stuff/do events along the way.

Leveling went faster. Enjoyment went through the roof.

Hearts are, to me, a very unfortunate addition.

I think we’d all find each other a lot more reasonable if we lowered the hyperbole, took a few deep breaths, and actually tried to listen to each other.

And I do honestly think that, if we set the right tone, we’d start to see a lot more developers feel comfortable posting here.

Im Mudbone.1437:

That works two ways. In the past 2 years, can you say with a straight face and honest concience that they have(in regards to my underlined part in your statement)?

That’s a really good question and one which every individual needs to answer for himself. Personally, they’ve kept several promises they needed to – not making the gemstore pay-to-win, for example. Regularly updating the game with new features and content. That sort of thing.

There have obviously been disappointments as well. If I were concerned about eSports, I’d find trusting them hard. The PvP community hasn’t gotten the attention it deserves and it’s probably too late. Dungeons have been a major disappointment (but to be fair, they never promised a bunch of new dungeons.)

Personally, the introduction of Ascended gear hurt me the most and has made me hyper-sensitive to any further increase in gear or level. The trust I have in them would quickly vanish if additional levels or an addition gear tier were added.

But I can say with a straight face that, despite some missteps, I think they are actively trying to make this a better game for the vast majority of the playerbase (sometimes at the expense of minority groups like hardcore PvPers and the RP community.)

Morrigan, that’s my point, though. There’s silence right now because this place is a madhouse and telling us “hey, we’re working on it” probably won’t make anything better.

Oh, and the people working on it are busy. You know… working on it.

They’ve already done a few hotfixes for the language issues and said they’re working on longer-term solutions. I don’t see what more people want from them.

Look, it’s okay to have criticisms about the game. I have my own. Trust me, people on my guild’s Teamspeak channel are often privy to some angry ranting about this game.

That said, a lot of the good feedback on these forums is totally obscured by dozens of angry hyperbole. Whatever you think of Megaserver, it is not destroying the game. It is not the worst thing ArenaNet has ever done. It is not so broken that the only option is to immediately remove it. They did not do it to save tons of money because the game is failing.

Chill. Out.

If this community doesn’t police its own worst offenders, it will remain a toxic pool of discontent. We’ve seen great examples of self-regulating our members within the CDI posts. Bringing that same attitude to the entire forum would be a great first step at helping developers be comfortable enough to post here regularly.

We need to build trust with them first. Trust is earned. We aren’t earning it.

Yeah. In general I’m VERY happy with the new UI, but your first point here address a common irk of mine. I frequently open my Hero panel to check out my stats (because of modifiers like food, party buffs, etc) and the extra click to the Equipment tab can frustrate me.

I think that’s a pretty good sign of solid UI design, though. The biggest complaint I have is a single extra click.

Pirlipat.2479:

timmyf.1490:

That is how you give feedback. Not “omg Anet ruined teh game bcuz gemstore kitten off you suck.”

Have you read any of the feedback I wrote in the mega-server-threads? You are not respectfull yourself with your fellow forum-users. In fact it was your insulting way to brush away loads of well-worded feedback from many users as pure flaming that made me answer you.

Pirli, I’m speaking more about the aggregate forum feedback across many threads and many months. There are definitely individuals providing solid feedback and criticism and there is definitely criticism that can be – and should be – made.

I gave an example above both of valid criticism and a format and language that I feel is both appropriate and helpful.

I am not attempting to criticize feedback that you gave as an individual, nor am I attempting to single out any other person providing feedback. Picking on individuals would not be a helpful thing for me to do. It would be easy, though, as browsing the top threads can give dozens of examples of people responding in very poor fashion.

To reiterate my main point: you will get more and better developer interaction by providing constructive feedback in the manner I presented in my example above.

Let me give an example of useful feedback…

ArenaNet-

As the leader of a large guild that likes to do guild missions regularly (with about 80-100 people at a time), we’re running into an issue with Megaserver. Previously, when we loaded into a zone, we’d create an overflow and then taxi our members into that overflow. It was a timely process, but we all eventually got there.

With Megaserver, this doesn’t seem to be working. We get split up into a few Megaservers, but because none of them are empty like the overflow, there’s too many other people already there to fit our whole guild.

This has made it incredibly difficult to do guild missions, especially Puzzle, Rush, and Challenge (where Bounty is a bit easier because you can just split to different targets.)

As a suggested solution, if a player maps into a zone where the guild has an active mission, perhaps the server will “reserve” room for all online, representing members? If there aren’t 80-100 spots on a Megaserver, it would create a new Megaserver map for the guild. This would mean we’d have to launch the mission before we waypoint in, but we usually do that anyway.

That is how you give feedback. Not “omg Anet ruined teh game bcuz gemstore kitten off you suck.”

Im Mudbone.1437:

timmyf.1490:

Pirlipat.2479:

So you better tell your customers in advance: “hey we take some time to implement it. Before we try it on a few parts” and if they don’t like it you hurry even more just because you hope they shut up after a while?

In the case of Megaserver, the product was delivered as documented ahead of schedule. That seems like a success.

Your issue is that you don’t like the product. That can be changed, but it means redesigning core features at an additional time and cost.

This is a pretty typical set of lines we deliver to our customers all the time. (And yes, we are wildly profitable.)

It’s so funny that your last two paragraphs make you sound less like just a GW2 gamer and more like an employee.

That’s the point. For those of us who do this sort of thing for a living, we understand it. I don’t work at Arena. I’ve never met anybody from Arena. Apart from a few interactions in game, on the forums, and once or twice on Twitter, I’ve never spoken to anybody from Arena.

As somebody who has a job in a related field, though, I know what happens behind the scenes. They don’t like to – and shouldn’t – talk about their internal processes. But if you’ve gone through it before, you’re much less likely to criticize.

We have a phrase here in the US that our EU friends may not get, but just in case: “Monday Morning Quarterbacking.” It’s very easy for somebody to criticize something they don’t understand and do not have the knowledge or talent to do themselves. It’s also not very helpful.

Morrigan.2809:

My husband is a developer :P

Then your husband would probably already know about this, but for your own enjoyment: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3brk033qb_w/UEwvqbaNpuI/AAAAAAAAACg/0ibWms5-XpY/s640/Screen+Shot+2012-09-05+at+1.45.33+AM.png

Pirlipat.2479:

So you better tell your customers in advance: “hey we take some time to implement it. Before we try it on a few parts” and if they don’t like it you hurry even more just because you hope they shut up after a while?

In the case of Megaserver, the product was delivered as documented ahead of schedule. That seems like a success.

Your issue is that you don’t like the product. That can be changed, but it means redesigning core features at an additional time and cost.

This is a pretty typical set of lines we deliver to our customers all the time. (And yes, we are wildly profitable.)

Dusty Moon.4382:

Pirlipat.2479:

I didn’t want the mega-server yesterday, I wanted it when it’s ready.

You know, you can test all you want but until it is rolled out, you never know what is going to happen. This is coming from an applications person – there are NEVER smooth rollouts, NEVER.

As somebody who works in enterprise software consulting, I was expecting Megaserver to be a technical disaster. It was not. It was shockingly smooth.

Language issues may be a design disaster, but they are NOT a technical disaster. The code was tested well and worked impeccably.

Pirlipat.2479:

Tbh, I don’t expect them to talk I expect them to care.

They care. This is their life. It is their work. It is their play. They live and breathe this game just as much, if not more, as many of us.

This is what gets me so upset. Saying that they don’t care is just beyond comprehension.

Maybe they dropped the ball, or failed to account for important information, or didn’t follow through. But they don’t care?

Ridiculous.

Pirlipat.2479:

timmyf.1490:

And if you’re so entitled as to think they “owe” us that interaction, there’s not really anything I can say. You’re wrong. Your $60 bought you a game, not the ability to force people to listen to you yell about how much you hate them and the work they’ve done.

Yep I bought a more or less working game over one and a half year back. I didn’t pay 50 Euro to become a laboratory rat for their mega-server-project. Atm we may leave some feedback which might or might not be read while the project itself got forced on all maps way faster than announced. Now we are experiencing some on the fly changes that might or might not solve our problems.

This is a great example of the problem.

“forced on us way faster than announced”

ArenaNet talked to us, but their plans changed. You use that as ammunition. THIS IS WHY THEY DON’T TELL US STUFF.

If I were a betting man, I’d say they’re building a new world boss for the Living World Season 2 content that we’ll see in the next 2-3 months.

I’d be curious to compare experience gain from different things. My feeling is that event rewards give the best experience, followed by kills, exploration, and then hearts dead last.

I’m not going to argue that, though. Just a gut feeling.

Eurhetemec.9052:

timmyf.1490:

Headline: Angry Mob Demands Target of Protest “Be Reasonable and Come Join Us”

If you want more dev interaction on these forums, it’ll take months of you guys exercising self-control and not attacking them or their work.

These forums haven’t been respectful enough to earn further dev interaction. If I worked for ArenaNet, I’d NEVER come here.

And if you’re so entitled as to think they “owe” us that interaction, there’s not really anything I can say. You’re wrong. Your $60 bought you a game, not the ability to force people to listen to you yell about how much you hate them and the work they’ve done.

If you think this is about “hate”, you should leave the discussion, because you clearly are not reading what people are saying. It is about criticism and dissatisfaction, and many people here have spent far, far more than $60. Whether they are “owed” a response isn’t the question. The question is whether it is smart to stay silent. I figure the devs have a week, at the outside, before people get really frustrated, so they need to respond by then if they want to avoid hurting the game.

Also, a guild leader who can’t distinguish “hate” from criticism is a guildsplosion waiting to happen, so you might want to look into that.

I’d prefer to leave my guild out of it, if that’s okay with you.

These forums are incredibly confrontational to developers. While some developers receive positive responses, others are met with huge amounts of vitriol every time they post. There are threads with hundreds, maybe even thousands, of posts, and there are dozens or perhaps hundreds of threads.

There are people who have the job of reading those posts. They are not developers. They are community managers or moderators. They collect feedback and give it to the developers.

The developers themselves are busy building the game, not browsing forums. They’ll pop in to the forums to read, maybe comment occasionally, but they’re busy. And even if they have the time to respond, it’s not always their call. ArenaNet, as a company, has a policy of not talking about future features or current development. It’s up to a select few developers – when authorized – to share that information.

I have no doubt that Anet is discussing Megaserver and potential changes. The discussion are unlikely to be finished. They could very well decide that it works fine. They CLEARLY think some changes need to be made as they’ve already been playing with the language options for you guys in the EU.

What I tire of is the constant demands for attention. We sound like a bunch of 3-year olds. While some threads and some posts are simply presenting relevant feedback in a way that can be consumed, the vast majority are just “ANET PLZ” threads that provide no real actionable information for the developers.

That is why we hear nothing but silence.

Edit: I re-read this post and feel terrible for saying that developers have “real jobs,” potentially implying community managers and moderators do not. Being a CM is a hard, often thankless job, and those of us who have worked a bit in the real world know the crap you have to deal with regularly. Love you guys, especially Danicia for the impromptu dance session yesterday at Balthazaar. Good running into you. :-D

Rauderi.8706:

CCAB is also level 45 food. >.>
Might be worth it if it’s cheap on the Trading Post by then, but sub-40, I’ll roll with a Loaf of Bread and Maintenance Oil.

Especially since MF is a placebo~

Ha, I don’t know about placebo, but 18% isn’t a lot. Just remember that 10% gold find means it pays for itself if you can earn 6.5 silver / 45m from monster kills. (Or 8 silver/hour). And offers more experience.

ArchonWing.9480:

I usually just look on the trading post, and before level 80, buy food that is no more expensive than 10 copper.

With all due respect, this is bad advice.

The food I mentioned above lasts 45m (some cheap food lasts 20 or 30 minutes) and includes 10% gold find and 18% magic find as well as 15% experience boost (compared to the standard 10%.)

Dude, why on earth would you spend that much money? Just buy Exotic armor to test your runes, don’t put it on Ascended. Wow.

Headline: Angry Mob Demands Target of Protest “Be Reasonable and Come Join Us”

If you want more dev interaction on these forums, it’ll take months of you guys exercising self-control and not attacking them or their work.

These forums haven’t been respectful enough to earn further dev interaction. If I worked for ArenaNet, I’d NEVER come here.

And if you’re so entitled as to think they “owe” us that interaction, there’s not really anything I can say. You’re wrong. Your $60 bought you a game, not the ability to force people to listen to you yell about how much you hate them and the work they’ve done.

Totally Badkitten Dragon.

For leveling, I would suggest Candy Corn Almond Brittle. Buy it off the trading post.

Megaserver was implemented because players on these forums spent over a year demanding some sort of underflow system because mid-level maps were empty.

Also: I think Megaserver allows them to add new zones without stretching the population out. I consider it a necessary first step for expanding the map. But that’s just speculation.

A R W E N.6895:

timmyf.1490:

Where did people get the idea that the official forums were the place to come and complain, in great detail, about everything they dislike in the game? Why is that a belief that exists?

Maybe because it is the ’’Official" forum.

Is it just because you think you have a higher likelihood of getting everything you want or something?

Bug reports are one thing. Posting bug reports on the official forums is useful and makes sense. All these QQ posts? I don’t get it.

Where did people get the idea that the official forums were the place to come and complain, in great detail, about everything they dislike in the game? Why is that a belief that exists?

What’s left of the Living Story?

Memories. (But not stale instances nobody cares to play anymore.$

People who like the game are usually too busy playing it to come here and whine.

To me, the leveling process always felt VERY stale from about 40 or 50 until 80. (I have 7 80s, so I’ve done this a bit now.) I’m hoping that the new system makes that process feel a bit better, that all the traits (and hunting them down) gives me plenty to do.

I intend to build a new character and try the whole process from scratch. Anybody else going to do the same?

I think there’s a lot of criticism before people have had a chance to really take it all in and try it out. Give it a shot, then come back and complain.

Looks like they’re working on it? From the patch notes:

Trait Unlocking:
Line 2—Trait XIII: This trait is now also awarded from successfully completing the defend event at the Temple of Grenth as well as the capture event.
Line 3—Trait XII: This trait is now also awarded from successfully completing the defend event at the Temple of Melandru as well as the capture event.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/3919207

I hope they don’t listen. The QQ on the forums right now is intense. Much of it is wrong. There isn’t much good they can get from all this nonsense.

I think the new trait system is a good start. For me, with 7 80’s, it doesn’t make that much of a difference. I think for new players to the game, it gives them A LOT more to do.

I’m hoping this means we’ll be getting more traits and more unique challenges over time.