Guild Wars 2

Saiyan.1704:

People want to raise the skill floor when I see sooo many Guards lose to classes like Condi necro in 1v1… and I’m on their team because Matchmaking couldn’t find more Plat players so they retort to Gold T1… but it’s ok because our team have 59 MMR points higher and are destined to win… -25 to lose.

Sure.. raise the skill floor. Make it incredible hard for people to play Guard. Make it Season 2 again. I at least never saw many Guardians in S2 for me to /facepalm.

you couldn’t raise the skillfloor past where guardian has already raised it.

Lost Elegy.9276:

Multicasting is indeed a problem, but so are the conditions themeselves. Changing the professions can only do so much. If I could have my way, I would simply REMOVE damage from conditions and make them status ailments that had an impact on combat without doing damage. An example?
Poison: Prevents any and all sources of healing until it is removed.
Bleeding: Replace Crippled.
Conditions that IGNORE defensive stats will never work well with ANY combat system. Surprise Surprise, condi is roiling out of control in a defensive/stunbreak heavy meta.

Ignoring all else, BURNING as a debuff needs to be massively reworked, on both the damage and stacking side of things. For a debuff that does so much damage with just one stack, having it be able to reach upwards of 15 or more in plain stupidity no matter how you look at it. Either cap it like you do boon durations or remove it. This isn’t rocket science.

in terms of balance the best approach is always the simplest. the simpler and more concise the changes, the easier it is to reasonably predict how they will actually end up affecting the games balance. changes like this would require professions to be built from the ground up again which would be insanely resource intensive on the devs (they can barely make minor incremental changes to cooldowns and cast times every 3 months) and would probably put us in a worse place than when we started.

imo they need to make the commitment to actually pay attention to pvp balance and make surgical changes and see what happens as opposed to funneling all their resources into PvE like they have since launch and ignoring pvp 361 days of the year.

it’s not equipment/gear. it’s professions. when gear is the issue, like celestial amulet was, you’ll find that it’s specifically only going to work well with a handful of professions and builds that are otherwise fine without said gear. every single S-tier celestial user was instantly knocked down to B or A-tier upon the removal of celestial amulet, elementalist even dropped down to being one of the worst professions in pvp after it was removed.

the reason chronomancer, for example, is so over the top (or at least massively overrewarding for the amount of skill required) right now isn’t because of one specific amulet, it’s solely because:

1. these builds have massive damage mitigation access to the point where there are almost no vulnerability windows. chronomancer can easily chain invuln -> block -> evade -> teleport -> invuln -> protection/aegis -> evade -> clone body blocking -> block -> heal -> dodge -> teleport etc. to the point where keeping pressure will fully exhaust the attacker’s offensive options before the chrono’s defensive options run up. the same can be said about Dragonhunter even post nerf due to the following point i’ll talk about, where offensive multicasting acts as a defensive measure as well:
2. these builds have massive pressure output thanks to multicast ability. touching back on Dragonhunter, a DH can simultaneously have symbols, traps, weapon/virtue attacks, and utilities attacking you at once, which means you are GUARANTEED to take damage as the overlap between these sources of damage will effectively eat through most defensive measures that can be taken while attacking. the same is completely true with Chronomancer as well, which can have clones/phantasms, fields, shatters, and weapon skills hitting you all at once.

as someone who recently came back after a long hiatus, this is just the same old problem as before. these builds simply have too much access to multicasting.

if you think im wrong, then think as to why everyone is complaining about condition s/d Thief? because of it’s multicast output compared to power Thief, whose builds can at most only have weapon attacks and steal going on at the same time. condition thief has a triple hit dodge (which is a huge deal, as it negates aegis, blind, body blocking pets, arcane shield, shield of wrath etc. a LOT easier), caltrops fields, steal, utilities (venoms/traps), and weapon skills. this allows thief to fufill both categories needed to be overpowered that i mentioned above, as opposed to simply having high damage mitigation access with daredevil power Thief. THIS is what is causing “condition spike” builds and this alone. you can mess with gear as much as you want, standardize gear to your heart’s content, but the problem will remain the same: it’s the PROFESSIONS at fault.

its almost as if it’s within character for people who constantly abused the most broken builds month to month to cheat to win in a video game

lmao bye

Saiyan.1704:

• Purification: The cast time of this ability has been increased from 0.5 seconds to 0.75 seconds.
• Hunter’s Determination: The cooldown of this trait has been increased from 45 seconds to 60 seconds.

So now Purification is ever more susceptible of getting interrupted… ok so this means casting it around 60% HP when we’re getting focused targeted, or using Focus#5, or Virtues’s F3 Stability just to guarantee a successful cast. Regardless which is used, it means we have to waste a very situational utility just to pull off a heal.

• Looking at other class nerfs, Rev got hit but I don’t think it’s on this level. Everybody virtually plays the same.

Stability & Stun gains in DH treeline is the only reason why our heads are above water in this powercreep meta. I rather they just remove the Aegis & damage proc and give us back our Stability on 45icd.
(passives in this game needs removal entirely but Anet wont do that.)

SoloQ players will still grind their way to Legendary but it’s a huge survival nerf in the proleagues. Last I checked, everyone else’s sustains remains unaltered.

They might as well have reverted the buffed F2 and F3 they made months ago. Anet changes to Purification is working backwards.

For those who thought DH was OP prepatch

hide spoiler

You were either a War, Thief, Necro, or Mesmer.

If you were a Rev, Ranger, Engi, then you deserved it. Sorry, but these classes can consistently soft counter Symbol & LB DH builds. There’s no excuses.

Those 3 classes counters us so hard, we were Barely a 5th pick in the pro leagues. Some think we’re not a pick at all.

1. a 0.25 increase in cast time is almost nothing. DH has a ridiculous amount of mitigation to the point where you can almost always use a skill to ensure the cast in the rare event you actually have to worry about an interrupt (more on this in point #2). i’ve disproven the myth that DH’s have limited sustain that renders them weak once all used simply by pointing to every source of sustain and how you can easily cycle them without even thinking about it.

Purification was and arguably still is a HUGE issue considering the actual healing wasn’t touched at all, you’re still getting a 9-10k heal on a profession that has roughly 16-18k in healing from other sources.

for the last time, if you can justify why Purification is literally 2 times better than Shelter on a 4 second shorter CD, i’d be very impressed.

2. Hunter’s Determination was just dumb and made landing CC on DH’s usually more punishing than rewarding, assuming they didn’t already block, invuln, blind, cc you.

3. Test of Faith STILL doesn’t have a cast time. this is by far one of the dumbest things about DH and it went completely untouched. there’s a clear precedent of nerfing skills that unintentionally act as a “get out of jail free” card when you’re CC’d; look at Thief’s Infiltrator Strike and Scrapper’s Sneak Gyro. how is this double standard okay?

you then go on in your spoiler to try and justify how half of the game is just expected to deal with DH being completely faceroll against their profession by saying “the 3 strongest professions in the game can beat mine, so that means i’m in the right.” and you can’t even bring yourself to say that it’s anything more than a “soft-counter”; even worse is the fact that the 3 professions that “soft-counter” you got considerably nerfed while you got the smallest nerfs possible.

entitled, entitled, entitled.

edit: also forgot, one-handed weapon damage was completely untouched and you even said many times over that this was necessary.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Highlie.7641:

And do you understand why every theif is using UH. It’s simple, there is far to much CC floating around that it is suicide without it.

The CC clear effects on unhindered where originally on an acro trait that was removed from the game. As for the swiftness that was also in acro (ED).

UH is the only reason to run Daredevil, If it wasn’t for the massive amount of CC around you wouldn’ t even need to trait hot.

I personally rUn dd line for that trait and escapist absolution. Impact disruption is 1 of the biggst carry traits of all thief traits.

EA is a lot more passive, and carries better in higher level play. It lets you overwhelm power builds that can’t keep any blindness/weakness/cripple/vulnerability/poison on you. It has no counter other than a lucky condi bomb. Impacting on the other hand is readily countered by stability, reflects (thanks to reliance on Headshot), invulns, blocks, evades, and literally doing nothing; by taking ID over EA you immediately have to play insanely better against condition specs to get the same results.

If you want to win you go Staff/Acro/EA, if you want to have fun you go D-P/DA/Impacting.

lmao i took a dump on this guy with p/p thief in queue and he got mad about it

first of all, you shouldn’t be running the metabattle build at all. it’s terrible for these reasons:

• Dash – vastly inferior to Bound in every way imaginable. everything Dash does can be done by something else or just straight up doesn’t need to be done.
• D/P – this weaponset has no place in the current meta at all. the ICD on Backstab has made a skill that was already hard enough to land basically worthless most of the time. you also have to rely heavily on Impacting Disruptions to have damage comparable to Staff which is bad because everyone has ridiculous amounts of stability, reflects, and blocks nowadays and it also means you can’t take Escapist’s Absolution which cripples you versus reaper/beserker/chronomancer (and even if you do take EA, D/P has no weapon evades to fully utilize it like Staff does). the only major redeeming qualities of D/P in 2016 is that you can Black Powder -> Bound, which the metabattle build wouldnt even let you do, Shadowshot, and MAYBE the auto chain.
• Shortbow – this weapon has been meta simply for the fact that you can teleport around with it. other than Infiltrator’s Arrow SB is probably tied with D/D for most useless weaponset in a fight- it has no damage to speak of and can’t kite anything.
• Deadly Arts – simply put, the sustain you get from going into Acrobatics over Deadly Arts ridiculously outvalues the relatively slight damage increase you get from DA.

Staff + Acro/TR/DD is the only truly viable Thief build in my opinion. with it you can 1v1 almost anything (on point too), and can also contribute greatly to teamfights with Staff’s AoE cleave and Acro’s sustainitive mechanics.

I also recommend taking P/P to complement Staff. It might sound odd, but P/P with Acro can properly kite anything including Dragonhunter. Staff and P/P cover each others weaknesses very well.

best part of this season has been switching from SB to P/P and cheesing Dragonhunters to death and getting hatewhispers about you being a “p/p spam noob” as if they’re not playing the most detrimental build to this game since D/D celestial ele.

1. Dragonhunter: nerf Purification considerably, with 16-17k in healing from other mechanics, DH does not need a 10k heal. DH also has a ridiculous amount of damage mitigation so you can’t make the argument that DH needs the healing like Druid. Onehanded symbols need a 10% dmg nerf. Test of Faith needs a cast time. traps need diminishing returns when placed on top of each other.
2. Druid: tone down overall healing around 10%. make Bristleback/Smokescale slightly easier to kill.
3. Beserker: rework or considerably nerf Rousing Resilience.
4. Herald: slight damage nerf on Staff maybe.
5. Scrapper: fix Acid Bomb’s mid-skill swap exploit. slight nerf to Final Salvo’s electric fields.

I also suggest buffing Sigil of Nullification and Sigil of Generosity with ICD decreases. Nullification should have a 3 second ICD like Sigil of Air, and Generosity should have a 5 second ICD; this would help tone down the condition/boon meta by making Nullification/Generosity finally a viable option over Air/Fire/Blood/Rage.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Wonder what people think of that stupid thief staff spam build that everyone runs right now.

it’s probably our strongest build right now and it’s a very active playstyle, but it’s very beatable. as for “everyone”… well most thieves are still running D/P + DA/TR/DD and there’s probably only 3-4 people (including myself) that actually know how to play Staff Acro effectively. spamming dodges, even on this build, will get you killed when fighting a skilled opponent.

DeceiverX.8361:

I agree. If they removed the steal cooldown reduction from SoH and base it baseline, I doubt very many people would continue to run it. Inflicting CC without stability on someone these days from all the passive procs often makes things more difficult than it should.

this x1000

so many things about Trickery from Preparedness to Bountiful Theft and Slight of Hand should’ve been baseline.

i don’t get why Steal is our profession defining mechanic and yet it’s absolutely garbage without pumping 1/3 of our possible traits into it.

this is a terrible, terrible post.

you’re 100% wrong when talking about DH being only effective in “lower tiers” of gameplay. every profession that isn’t Druid/Herald struggles immensely to beat a competent DH- condition and power specs alike. I’m in Legend and I still haven’t seen even the slightest reduction in number of DHs.

secondly, most of your suggestions are outright bad or useless.

• Procession of Blades doesn’t see use. who cares. you’re purposely suggesting a worthless nerf to just say “DH was already nerfed!”.
• your “nerf” to Test of Faith is an outright buff.
• Traps being reduced in size wouldn’t matter. this is still Conquest; unless you’re willing to accept a 50% size reduction this suggestion means nothing because we still have to play around points and that inevitably means stepping onto a small area. another aspect of traps needs to be changed.
• why would you buff scepter? singlehanded DH weapons are already the strongest option available and you want to buff them. are you even trying to hide the fact you play DH?

the only good point you made was changing Shield of Courage into 160 degrees instead of 180, which i already thought it was due to the animation…

other than that one point, your post is nothing more than a poor attempt at trying to redirect the focus away from DH’s true problems.

this is what should probably be done overall:

1. nerf Purification considerably. right now it’s 2x as good as the next “meta” heal (Shelter), and yet it’s on a 4 second shorter CD. DH has roughly 15-16.5k in healing outside of their actual heal; in this context, Purification healing for 10k is completely unwarranted.
2. nerf singlehanded Symbols. the biggest problem with DH offensively is their multi-source pressure. Traps, weapon attacks, virtues, symbols- it’s too easy for Conquest. traps seeing a reduction in size would mean nothing as i’ve already mentioned.
3. rework Traps so that they actually function as traps and not easy AoE spam. nerf active duration slighty, make all traps have a cast time (Test of Faith being instant cast is absurd), and implent a mechanic that forces Traps to have diminishing returns upon different players stacking traps: let’s say four DHs place Test of Faith on top of a point, one should do 100% damage, the 2nd should do 50%, and then the next down to a baseline 25% for the next two. this drastically helps with the DH stacking issue in a way that promotes smart use rather than spamming them without negatively affecting traps in 1v1s or non-multi DH situations.

gonna keep bumping this thread until DH is nerfed.

I reached legend a week and a half ago and haven’t played this game since.

All the desperate kitten-poor players hopping onto DH have made the game completely unfun. It was already near-intolerable with Druid/Scrappers but now also having 4-6 DHs in almost every single game is just outright horrible.

Saiyan.1704:

I don’t play other classes so that was my mistake there.

As for everything else… I’m telling you facts while you’re just labeling random items on DH being OP because you seem to think so.. that’s your fallacy.

So these are facts.
1. Engi and Ele used to give Guardians a hard time in S2 and S3. Now they don’t.
2. We were only slightly buffed in dps while our heals & traps remained the same.

Comps such as Ranger, Rev, Ele, Engi obliterated us. Now it’s just Rev & Ranger. That means we have more freedom in SPvP. These are facts, not presumed opinions.

Balance is dependent on every single class not just 1. – my presumed opinion based on these facts.

It’s not hard to comprehend but you still seem mindset on removing our Heals, Aegis or Trap damages when these weren’t S2 and S3 issues…. it’s a class balancing issue and right now, things are not fine in the Rock, Paper Scissors spectrum.

I’m not labeling all these things as OP. I’m 100% fine with DH aegis uptime, blinds, blocks, longbow, gs, hammer, trap damage (w/out stacking), etc. even if they are lame. I’m just pointing out things like DH’s 15,000 healing access to show that DH really, really, REALLY doesn’t need an additional 9k heal. comprehensively, all I’m asking for is:

• a 10% damage nerf to S/F + Sc/Sh symbols.
• a rework to DH traps to reduce the effectiveness of trap overlapping, in a way that doesn’t affect their 1v1 effectiveness.
• a decent shave to Purification to bring it in line with Shelter.

You’ve already agreed the first two nerfs are necessary. I’m just trying to prove that Purification needs a shave too, and I think I’ve done that.

I’m able to beat every profession in the game on Daredevil through outplaying them except for DH. I can kill Druids, Heralds, Beserkers, Scrappers (barely), Chronomancers, Reapers, Tempests; you name it. But for some reason, I can’t kill DH players. At first I was completely set on learning how to beat them, I’ve spent hours 1v1ing various DH friends and strangers trying to learn just exactly what I can do to beat them down to the smallest interactions, and it’s lead me to the realization that you just can’t. this is EXACTLY how it felt playing against d/d celestial elementalist, the only way to beat them is for them to simply mess up horribly. you can outplay them at every corner and still lose. this sentiment is a shared one across Daredevils, Chronomancers, Beserkers, Scrappers, Tempests, Reapers, and even Druids/Heralds which you wrongly claim are “counters”; being just able to beat your profession is not a counter.

Scrapper/Tempest, when they were overpowered, only “soft-countered” Longbow, not DH. both now outright lose to Symbol DH. stop bringing this up, it has zero relevancy and I don’t know why you keep bringing this up. It happened, we get it. it doesn’t matter anymore.

balance, as you stated, is about all professions; and yet you keep acting like having only Druid/Herald being able to beat DH is balanced. I just don’t get it.

Saiyan.1704:

sinject.4607:

Saiyan.1704:

Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.

the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.

Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.

Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.

Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.

DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.

There are numerous weapon sets in the game that goes unused. Whether or not a weapon set is better than another is besides the point. Nerfing Scraps and Ele to the point of getting demolished by DH when in S2 & S3 were the opposite, makes a HUGE difference in this argument. This is not a misconception.

sinject.4607:

you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.

still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.

I’m not arguing how easy it is to make a pugstomper DH build. I posed in a similiar thread agreeing that this aspect was toxic in the casual scene and it’s entirely a trap mechanical issue. That said, Rev’s entire class mechanic skillsets is the worse. Only reason they aren’t complained is because power Rev have weaknesses unlike DH who got his 2 softcounters removed.

Purification, how many heals do you see that are 2x better than it’s core counter part? Again, besides the point. What’s factual is how our heals never changed in S2 and S3. Heck, our heals were never even brought up until now. Why do you think that is?

i’m just gonna ignore the first part of your post because you’re essentially saying DH being balanced is dependent on Tempest/Scrapper being overpowered. i dunno how many times i have to repeat myself but this is the worst argument you can come up with. they literally brought one mechanic that countered one weaponset DHs don’t even use anymore, we are completely beyond this. the only other way this can be interpreted is you asking for only Tempest/Scrapper being able to beat DH which is probably even worse.

and for your second part…

there is literally no other HoT heal in the game that is that is 2x better than their core counterpart.

the majority of professions still use core heals.

anyways, I’m happy we’ve reached the point where you have to lie and recycle tired disproven arguments to defend your profession because this exemplifies just how intellectually bankrupt any defense of DH ends up being. You can keep saying “that’s besides the point” but that doesn’t actually make it true. Sorry.

Saiyan.1704:

Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.

the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.

Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.

Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.

Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.

DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.

you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.

still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.

other than that, you’ve already agreed DH stacking needs to be toned down along with onehander damage. DH players are agreeing with me on 2/3rds of my argument and turning around calling it “outrageous” or “wrong”.

Ragnarox.9601:

so lets summarize….guardian haters:
(aegis haters)
-thieves which have 10k dmg in 1 attack (backstab) and 7k in other attacks (HS, Vault)
- warriors which have 10k in 1 attack (eviscerate, decapitate) and 7-9k in other attacks (arc divider, arcing slice)

I dont see any complaints from Druids, Scrappers, Reapers, Chronos, Eles, Revenants cause they pretty much negate traps and blocks and outsustain our dmg….

you’re completely wrong. not even worth getting into how wrong you are about literally everything in this post.

Lucentfir.7430:

Then why do you bring the matter of the OP being discredited or argued against for having 8k hours on guard and calling it a lame, I have 8,6k hours on my main class ,can prove it and discuss rational balancing? Moving on I know not many or even any of the traps are used on thief and ranger right now but you just further the point of biased balancing. You’re willing to back up a ridiculous change which would globally affect all utility skills just to nerf what DH has because “lol thief traps and ranger traps aren’t even used anyway lol!”

you’re making a huge leap in logic in comparing DH traps to Druid/Daredevil traps and you’re even admitting this when you say you know they’re going unused (gee wonder why). DH traps deserve special treatment because they are clearly special, hence why they’re the only traps in use in the entire game.

if Thief’s stealth attacks deserve special treatment because they’re “better” than other profession’s, the same can easily be said for DH’s traps.

I wasn’t the one saying all traps should be nerfed, you were. I’m simply stating that your ludicrous suggestion would make zero difference because our traps are already garbage and I wouldn’t mind at all making them more garbage if it meant DH nerfs.

3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1),
That is what you typed out, FYI aegis stack in duration not stacks and if this is in reference towards Fragments of Faith, you have to walk over them to pick them up, and you can only pick them up if you don’t have aegis, not to mention if you lost aegis on top of one you would have to walk back over it because it won’t register if you do. You’re not guaranteed to pick up all 5 every single time.

let’s play the counting game. I know you DH players hate it, but here it is:

1. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Courage
2. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Judgment
3. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valorous_Defense
4. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Determination
5. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protective_Reviver

Wow! Five!

I’m not even counting the additional Aegis from Hunter’s Determination’s FoF drop. so if you want to count those too, DH has 10 individual possible sources of Aegis. way to shoot your own argument in the foot.

I’ve seen various posts of complaints, people are complaining about one shots while the others are complaining about on point pressure from Symbols, and sustain on blocks and heals. I’ve already said I’m expecting some damage tuning on one hander symbols and other shavings but you seem to be on rather promoting some very outrageous changes rather then having rational balance discussion, and again you make it hard to take you seriously, with the way you post.

I’ve literally only promoted a rework to traps to nullify the unfair advantage they have in a Conquest-styled gamemode, a nerf to DH’s outright dumb amount of healing, and nerfs to symbols/one hand weaponsets.

what part of this is “outrageous”?

the part where I’m suggesting Purification not heal for double the amount of Shelter while being on a 4 second shorter cooldown because DH already has access to 14-15k of healing outside of their actual heal not to mention their high access to blocks/blinds/condi cleanses?

the part where I’m suggesting a nerf to the very thing you already claimed to be expecting a nerf to?

the part where I’m suggesting that DH stacking be nerfed because of the absurd way multiple DH traps interact in a teamfight?

…

you can throw around the word “rational” all you like buddy, but literally every post you’ve sent my way has had logical fallacies in them.

and what would you know, you finish this post off with ANOTHER fallacy. attacking me for the way i post rather than addressing the content of my posts is pretty indicative you have nothing left to respond with. but hey, I guess it’s cool when someone that agrees with you responds with a “funny” image macro and a twitch meme.

Saiyan.1704:

Kappa

“my free decap/kill button has one counter, please remove it”

Lucentfir.7430:

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

Even though this is a fine example of the false equivalency fallacy I’m 100% okay with this considering neither Druid nor Daredevil will ever use our absolutely horrible traps.

in fact you could give Druid/Daredevil traps a century long cooldown and it would have zero effect on how often they’re used, because nobody is using them in first place lmao.

how do you even have that much time invested and not already know this?

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

650 × 5 different unique sources of Aegis (activated once each) = 3.2k

3/10 attempt come back to me when you’re willing to address the actual imbalances of DH and not just stammering out “b-but people are complaining about traps” even though there’s validity in much of these arguments as well considering the inherent balance dynamic of traps in Conquest and how this was clearly disregarded in their design.

what you’re committing here is called the straw man fallacy.

please look up the basic logical fallacies before posting further. this goes out to all DH posters.

Xillllix.3485:

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

well, Purification is a 9k heal, Meditations are like 5.9k, Wings of Resolve is 4.5k, Pure of Heart is 3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1), and then you have smaller heals like Writ of Persistence, Virtue of Resolve (Passive), and Selfless Daring.

the main problem imo is Purification. Compared to Shelter, the previous meta heal for Guardian, Purification provides literally double the healing on a 4 second shorter cooldown. “but that’s only if you walk on it!!” as if it that isn’t impossible in Conquest or against a DH that knows how to use their pull/teleports. I only wish Channeled Vigor was that much better than Withdraw.

Darknicrofia.2604:

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

weak effort. the vast majority of posts have been made by players that clearly know what they’re talking about, and then get yelled at by DH players with inane arguments that never actually address actual issues. your argument here, like most every other DH argument, is a fallacy.

i mean cmon, the OP of this thread even says he has 8000 hours on Guardian, and you’re trying to discredit him with this lame post?

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

literally every single profession’s playerbase has a problem with DH and somehow everyone but them is wrong.

every single defense of DH comes down to “DONT STAND ON TRAPS/SYMBOLS” when this is a point-based game, or “WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE NO COOLDOWNS” as if you can’t rotate perfectly all the defenses DH has.

the only way to kill a DH is to play Druid and we’re expected to think this is okay.

pelle ossa.9705:

sinject.4607:

pelle ossa.9705:

sinject.4607:

Drafigo.4690:

Bud I have to say that your list is garbage especially coming from a guy that only plays Thief! I absolutely hate playing with guys that only play thief! Being honest here, most have no clue how to play SPvP! Most have no clue how to do anything but they started playing it because stealthers are always the best.

I completely disagree with your DH list!

issues with Guarding are not there traps its that alot of their other skills are not so good. For example I wish they would make spirit weapons much better and work them over. Guarding has really for the most part no speed unless you kitten your self somewhere else. There are issues with most of the classes in this game but you list is mainly a list of stuff you cant beat so lets cry and shout nerf!

Vote Vermin Supreme 2016, Why not we get a free pony!

im just gonna ignore DH posters. you guys are the most inane and self-obsessive players in the game and add nothing but “DEAR GOD PLEASE DONT NERF PURIFICATION” to every conversation about balance.

you can fight it all you want, DH’s healing isnt gonna go unchecked.

no , it’s not enough , they have to remove guardian from spvp , soo you can finally be god with your super pro teef “I KILL EVERYONE AHAHAHAH”

you’re just an idiot if you think DH is balanced. objectively within the sub 90 IQ range.

oh you are a bad guy…
i hope they will nerf dh, soo you can finally stop complain about it (maybe , it can be possible that they will nerf guardian , but you still die vs it…)

aw that’s too bad

Dragonhunter players, side by side with the likes of Scrappers and Druids, have completely sapped the fun from this game. they have actively chosen to play something that is completely detrimental to the game and yet they come here and try to emptily defend their exploitation of imbalance and then act justified. it’s disgusting.

I have zero respect for these players and I’m not going to act differently.

pelle ossa.9705:

sinject.4607:

Drafigo.4690:

Bud I have to say that your list is garbage especially coming from a guy that only plays Thief! I absolutely hate playing with guys that only play thief! Being honest here, most have no clue how to play SPvP! Most have no clue how to do anything but they started playing it because stealthers are always the best.

I completely disagree with your DH list!

issues with Guarding are not there traps its that alot of their other skills are not so good. For example I wish they would make spirit weapons much better and work them over. Guarding has really for the most part no speed unless you kitten your self somewhere else. There are issues with most of the classes in this game but you list is mainly a list of stuff you cant beat so lets cry and shout nerf!

Vote Vermin Supreme 2016, Why not we get a free pony!

im just gonna ignore DH posters. you guys are the most inane and self-obsessive players in the game and add nothing but “DEAR GOD PLEASE DONT NERF PURIFICATION” to every conversation about balance.

you can fight it all you want, DH’s healing isnt gonna go unchecked.

no , it’s not enough , they have to remove guardian from spvp , soo you can finally be god with your super pro teef “I KILL EVERYONE AHAHAHAH”

you’re just an idiot if you think DH is balanced. objectively within the sub 90 IQ range.

Drafigo.4690:

Bud I have to say that your list is garbage especially coming from a guy that only plays Thief! I absolutely hate playing with guys that only play thief! Being honest here, most have no clue how to play SPvP! Most have no clue how to do anything but they started playing it because stealthers are always the best.

I completely disagree with your DH list!

issues with Guarding are not there traps its that alot of their other skills are not so good. For example I wish they would make spirit weapons much better and work them over. Guarding has really for the most part no speed unless you kitten your self somewhere else. There are issues with most of the classes in this game but you list is mainly a list of stuff you cant beat so lets cry and shout nerf!

Vote Vermin Supreme 2016, Why not we get a free pony!

im just gonna ignore DH posters. you guys are the most inane and self-obsessive players in the game and add nothing but “DEAR GOD PLEASE DONT NERF PURIFICATION” to every conversation about balance.

you can fight it all you want, DH’s healing isnt gonna go unchecked.

Sigmoid.7082:

3. …I said 10-15% overall nerf. learn to do basic math: 5-7.5% nerf on both S/F and Sc/Sh = 10-15%.

Before you insult someones math be sure you do it right yourself. A 5% nerf on one set and a 5% nerf on another is still a 5% nerf overall not 10%..

e.g
100 -> 95 for set one
100 -> 95 for set two
200 -> 190 overall

okay then let’s just nerf both sets by 10%

Kuya.6495:

At this point we are all pretty much aware you don’t know what you’re talking about, but just in case anyone is innocent enough to take you seriously, i just wanted to clarify that weapon blocks and shield of courage do not avoid aegis removal, essentially wasting the boon. So you don’t use mace 3 or f3 when you already have aegis. It’s been a complaint of guards for a while now.

wow i’m really gonna listen to the DH that has been throwing a fit this whole thread because i forgot one thing.

if we’re working on the whole “one thing you said was wrong so now nothing you say counts” basis you would’ve already lost all validity when you said “spam backstab” as if that’s even remotely possible

forum bug fix -

Kuya.6495:

Notice that the thf is focusing on the classes/specs he can’t gank by spamming backstab.

jesus. stop posting, you’re embarrassing yourself.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

“I play Daredevil exclusively”

Will never understand people that never play other classes and then think they have any idea what they’re talking about when demanding nerfs/buffs lol.

i’ve been right about every single major nerf that’s happened in this game. if you’re unable to detach yourself from bias, that’s your problem. i’m an adult, so it’s pretty easy.

Saiyan.1704:

sinject.4607:

Dragonhunter:

• Symbols (S/F+Sc/Sh) – needs 10-15% damage nerfs.
• Purification – needs rework; make the initial heal and secondary both heal for 3.25k for a total of 7.5k. make the secondary heal only go off if it actually hits a player for damage, not just on activation. I cannot stress how ridiculous it this skill is, especially with Wings of Resolve/Renewed Focus and Monk’s Focus. the fact that it essentially makes DH essentially unbeatable on point is the main source of issue with this profession.
• Aegis access – needs reduction. DH already has a crazy amount of mitigation, and passively getting Aegis just for breathing every 2 seconds is just a spit in the face of players who have to actively expend resources to deal with it.
• Renewed Focus – I leave this for last because if Purification gets properly nerfed this more than likely wouldnt be necessary. increase the CD. this elite in combination with DH Virtues is more or less a full reset.

Are you insane?

• Purification proc on hit? Our secondary heal would Never go off.. you just killed guards viability in ESL with this alone.
• Aegis access? It’s 1 block every what, 15s-20s depending on how fast we blow our cds. One lousy hit from a mosquito will remove it.
• 15% damage nerf on swords… it only need a 5-7% damage nerf.

Not everyone plays a Thief bro. Other classes don’t have as tough of a time with DH like you yall do.

1. DH’s healing is unarguably broken. I don’t care where it happens, but you can expect it to be cut. Purification is not balanced, especially in Conquest, and if the entirety of your profession’s ESL viability relies on the most overrewarding heal in the game, it speaks volumes about just how badly this skill is carrying the profession.
2. In conjunction with the sheer multitude of mitigation through other DH mechanics, Aegis is unfairly filling what little vulnerability windows DH actually has. One aegis will easily linger while the DH chains other blocks (Shield of Courage, weapon blocks, Renewed Focus, blinds) to the point where Aegis can pop back to back. taking the extra second or two to further deal with this against a DH is huge when you’re getting hit every second for 1/5th of your health when trying to melee them. this problem is also related to DH healing because if you guys didn’t get to full heal as ridiculously often we wouldnt need as many windows of vulnerability.
3. …I said 10-15% overall nerf. learn to do basic math: 5-7.5% nerf on both S/F and Sc/Sh = 10-15%.
4. the only professions that don’t outright lose/stalemate to DH are Druid and Beserker running RR. using other overpowered professions as justification for where yours is at as never worked well as an argument: two wrongs dont make a right.

I really am “insane” for suggesting a nerf you literally asked for, a shave to the strongest heal in the game, and a slight reduction in blocks to a profession that already has the most in the game.

Erzian.5218:

If herald is only borderline broken, then all of your list is wrong as all the classes on your list are actually worse than herald.

please by all means explain how

because i can make unjustified claims too! the sun is blue. if u disagree ur wrong!!!

Kuya.6495:

As a DH main: kitten this list

very constructive.

your posts don’t work like your profession. you’re gonna have to put some effort in on this one.

anet has taken a number of steps that have helped push this meta in the right direction, however there are still some clear examples of mechanics that are just outright imbalanced and should be fixed. if you have something to add, please make sure to explain why in a constructive manner.

let me start with the obvious ones:

Beserker:

• Rousing Resilience – lack of ICD, the long duration of each proc (8s), the severity of the trait (1000 toughness, 2.5k heal), combined with warrior’s high-tier armor and access to stunbreaks makes any Beserker running this almost immune to death by power builds. Cleansing Ire does not counter condition specs like Rousing Resilience does power.
• Arc Divider – comes out way too fast given how hard it hits and how deceptively big the range is. at least Skull Grinder’s damage is spread out over time and is single target.

Dragonhunter:

• Symbols (S/F+Sc/Sh) – needs 10-15% damage nerfs.
• Purification – needs rework; make the initial heal and secondary both heal for 3.25k for a total of 7.5k. make the secondary heal only go off if it actually hits a player for damage, not just on activation. I cannot stress how ridiculous it this skill is, especially with Wings of Resolve/Renewed Focus and Monk’s Focus. the fact that it essentially makes DH essentially unbeatable on point is the main source of issue with this profession.
• Aegis access – needs reduction. DH already has a crazy amount of mitigation, and passively getting Aegis just for breathing every 2 seconds is just a spit in the face of players who have to actively expend resources to deal with it.
• Renewed Focus – I leave this for last because if Purification gets properly nerfed this more than likely wouldnt be necessary. increase the CD. this elite in combination with DH Virtues is more or less a full reset.

Scrapper:

• Acid Bomb – stow/swap weapon exploit prevents this from sending the user back, allowing the scrapper to freely maintain further on-point presence while getting the full benefits of the skill.
• Final Salvo – the pulse needs to be removed. these fields linger far too long. Conquest makes this trait too rewarding.

Druid:

• Bristleback/Smokescale – still doing way too much damage for their survivability. part of this problem comes from being able to swap pets whenever they’re in danger. Someone somehow manage to pressure Bristleback to 10% HP? just swap to Smokescale. this is horrible design.
• General – Too much healing across the board, but it’s not nearly as bad as most make it out to be. a 15% overall nerf like Beserker saw to Adrenal Healing might do.

Herald/Chronomancer/Reaper:

• Borderline in need of nerfs but I’m not so sure as to where, because they are relatively tame compared to the above professions.

I play Daredevil exclusively so I’m leaving that out because of bias, however I genuinely can’t think of anything on it that needs nerfing. Tempest was excluded for obvious reasons.

kitten.5862:

Highest skill cap coming from ESL player:

Guard
Rev
Mes
Thief
Necro
Eng
Warr
Druid
Ele

Yeah I put guard on top sorry bads. Because I probably am the best at it but I still think I’m playing at like 90% effectiveness. Maybe there just are no players above 90% on any class but I know there’s still more potential in guard (and I know I have to put way more effort into my game play than anyone except some revs)

cant tell if this post is either sarcastic or delusional

Aeolus.3615:

The isssue is not the DH traps…
There are 2 reasons why some players on some classes are being instagibed by traps, one is the pvp balance that forced pvp team to remove trinkets that were ok in some classes due being to strong on others, the other is that many people were used to face smash oponoents with gimmick build (being carried for to long with their builds with those stats that were to much on that class).

Now theres something that counters squishy builds or makes them to change the way how they spam skills, every one panics, still linked to initial problem, those players cant adapt much due dependace on stats that were removed, and cant improve their build due stats that got removed, so a few classes dont have much options to choose from being squishy, wich is meat bags for DH (class works very well in power creep situation only).

DH has awfull sustain if u know how to counter it, and theres only one trap that does good/very good damage, and if the DH not using stability f2,f3, are easilly disrupted,

PS: Also the only skill guardian received for sustain was a block on mace.

the entire crux of DH’s imbalance is overtuned symbols, Purification healing for way too much (if it doesn’t deal damage, it shouldn’t heal for the second amount at all. just activation alone causing the heal is a huge problem and incredibly poor design especially in Conquest), and Renewed Focus clearly not being properly balanced with the Dragonhunter upgraded Virtues in mind.

DH has far from awful sustain and you’re outright wrong if you say otherwise. And again, for the 50000th time, nobody is complaining about trap damage. the problem is Symbol damage.

to repeat myself slowly and simply for you DH players:

• Purification
• Renewed Focus
• S/F + Sc/Sh Symbols

these are the problems.

not longbow
not greatsword
not trap damage

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Only reason DH’s seem so strong now is that you’re almost guaranteed to get someone naive, or stupid enough to get 1shot by traps. Regardless of matchup.

DH was strong in low divisions last season too.

sinject.4607:

Symbol DH is a direct result of the recent buffs. Nobody here is talking about Longbow/GS or trapper DH. the problem is Symbol DH combined with the overpowered Purification heal.

you’re either purposely trying to derail the focus on this overpowered build or you’re just ignorant about your own profession.

Cynz.9437:

were you playing thief in those matches? because prof rep is screwed if you always play same class, you should remove yourself from statistic

yea thats true, bit of an oversight. only 3 daredevils then since i only count once.

okay, so I just played 5 ranked games in a row to get a quick sample of how flooded sPvP is with Dragonhunters and here’s the stats:

5 games (w/w/w/w/w)(Sapphire T3-4):

• DH: 19 (!) players
• Reaper: 7
• Druid: 6
• Herald: 6
• Daredevil: 3 (was 7, but I’m only counting myself once)
• Beserker: 2
• Chronomancer: 2
• Scrapper 1
• Tempest: 0

Total: 50 players

this was a quick and small sample but as you can see, there’s a clear outlier here. i’ll be playing 15 more games and collecting the profession data from those games to get a better set, however if this small sample is any indication, I’m going to guess approximately 40-50% of all ranked players are using Dragonhunter right now.

this doesn’t happen to a balanced profession.

pelle ossa.9705:

Xillllix.3485:

Ubik.8315:

So should I make a video that shows a thief dodging over a set of traps? A warrior using block? Traps are the last thing people should be complaining about with DHs.

Dragon Hunter can also dodge… So that is not an argument. The DH just has too much sustain, condi-clear, blocks and CCs for the spike damage it can unleash.

Elementalists may well dance around traps all they want but they don’t do half the damage of a Dragon Hunter while using 10 times as many skills.

oh yhea , we have god scrapper resssbot unkillable with a paladin amulet , we have ubercondispam from mesmer , we have war that is all about passive things that make him hard to kill , we have druid with his healing capacity op as kitten , but the problem is dh…. dat logic

• Scrapper has seen a slew of nerfs that have cemented it in a well balanced position.
• Mesmer’s condition application is very well broadcasted and the gaps between their defensive mechanics (distortion/evasion/stealth) are large and easily exploited, especially considering their Light armor tiering.
• Warrior has also seen various nerfs to utility, damage, and sustain, although they still could use a shave here and there, much like DH.
• Druid is incredibly susceptible to team focus and CC, although Bristleback and Smokescale could still do with a shave to their damage output.

gonna have to repeat this for the DH players out there for the third time apparently: other professions being imbalanced does not excuse your own profession being overpowered, especially when it’s in the highest tier of overpowered.

1. you forgot to mention you play Dragonhunter too. but that’s okay because Druid isn’t balanced either.

2. you complain about Reapers and Mesmers (the two professions you just so happen to claim to see more of than DHs) in countless posts of yours, despite maining the one profession that is best suited to fight condition specs.

3. genuinely the worst argument for DH I’ve read so far. it isn’t good because it doesn’t have a condition build on par with Beserker’s, Reaper’s, or Chronomancer’s? you know power builds are just as viable and capable of being overpowered too right? you do know that DH can effectively beat most condition specs right?

something tells me you don’t have the capacity to understand this. you Dragonhunters are only embarrassing yourselves with these self-serving mediocre posts.

Spartacus.3192:

sinject.4607:

Spartacus.3192:

What i love about GW2 is each account is given a number of free character slots. Ive only been playing this game for 2 years but ive noticed there will always be 1 or 2 OP classes whether real or perceived (and depending on division etc). I have 5 classes that i enjoy and can play reasonably well. There is a high possibility that one of those classes will be considered OP.

Quit whining and go with flow. Learn to play more classes and you will shrug off these inevitable situations because
1. You can always load up the OP class and ROFLStomp everyone
or
2. You know how to counter it since you know how to play it.

1. “the way to beat the overpowered fotm profession is by playing it! don’t bother balancing it!”
2. “pfff. just learn to counter something that has no counters”

I don’t think you understand how balance works at all.

I’ve yet to see a single pro-DH argument that isn’t absolutely abysmal and doesn’t try to be condescending despite the fact putting nothing of value on the table :/

in my experience the best way to get ANETS attention is not by QQ on forums. Its when they see everyone switching to a class that is clearly OP (see scrappers in prev season and rev and ele). Then they go about nerfing it.

Go QQ all you want but crying wont help you get your wins in pvp. And as i said i ENJOY playing 5 different classes so moving to a FOTM class is not a sacrifice or a sellout.

ANET has access to huge amount of match data. They know exactly how many people are playing what classes . If DH is really is that strong and gets used so much as everyone says, it will show up in their reports and get adjusted.

I repeat the best way to get ANETS attention is through numbers, not by QQ because you got stomped and refuse to adapt.

i don’t know why you think i care about how you feel. what you said was dumb and your feelings don’t change that.

this post is specifically talking about the massive influx of Dragonhunters in ranked sPvP thanks to the recent patch that’s rendered it overpowered, the very thing you say that happens to overpowered professions, and yet here you are complaining about the poster bringing it up?

you also seem to be under the idea that anet ignores these forums. the developers do read these threads, they just can’t respond as they’ve explained on the subreddit. many of the popular nerf suggestions on here end up getting put into effect. I know this first hand because the vast majority of what I’ve campaigned for in terms of balance has been implemented.

stop posting my man, you’re just wasting your time trying to delay the inevitable.

DesuNyan.4783:

Druid>Rev>Mesmer>Ele=Warr=DH=Thief

here’s an actual ranking:

s-tier: (overpowered)
Beserker = Dragonhunter = Druid > Chronomancer = Herald

a-tier: (well balanced)
Daredevil = Reaper = Scrapper

b-tier: (slightly underpowered)
Tempest

c-tier: (underpowered)
Few Non-Elite builds

d-tier: (unusable)
Most Non-Elite builds

Spartacus.3192:

What i love about GW2 is each account is given a number of free character slots. Ive only been playing this game for 2 years but ive noticed there will always be 1 or 2 OP classes whether real or perceived (and depending on division etc). I have 5 classes that i enjoy and can play reasonably well. There is a high possibility that one of those classes will be considered OP.

Quit whining and go with flow. Learn to play more classes and you will shrug off these inevitable situations because
1. You can always load up the OP class and ROFLStomp everyone
or
2. You know how to counter it since you know how to play it.

1. “the way to beat the overpowered fotm profession is by playing it! don’t bother balancing it!”
2. “pfff. just learn to counter something that has no counters”

I don’t think you understand how balance works at all.

I’ve yet to see a single pro-DH argument that isn’t absolutely abysmal and doesn’t try to be condescending despite the fact putting nothing of value on the table :/

i know this guy to be a good Druid, the one thing DHs say “counters” them. and yet here he is, addressing the imbalance like everyone else.

i wonder when the bandwagon will realize they’re not gonna be around for long?

Supreme.3164:

sinject.4607:

snip

The meta may change but Sinject will never change……thief is fine nerf the rest..by a thief

one thing is sure..after dragonhunter you’ll come here asking for nerfs on druid …ofc mesmer/rev and thief are fine as they are and if you die to them it’s because you’re noob and ele is completely fine no need to buffs, the nerfs were justified

By

Sinject Thief Supremacy Pro Campaigner since..forever

PLs nerf rock, paper is fine

Yours faithfully

Scissor

way to completely ignore any of the points i put forward and then try to be cute about it.

the only people that ever say the tired old “you’re just paper asking for nerf to scissors!!!” argument are people playing/defending stupid builds that have always gotten nerfed. it’s a lazy way to try and invalidate the other side of the argument and nothing more. I have never campaigned for a nerf that hasn’t happened, because unlike you I’m able to articulate my reasoning and am able to identify things that are objectively overpowered. you aren’t contributing anything but your bitterness to this conversation.

you’re the only person I’ve ever heard complain about thief that hasn’t just got the game. Herald and Chronomancer are only slightly overtuned, but the fact you try to defend Druid and Dragonhunter as balanced shows you have such a distorted perspective on balance that nobody should take you seriously.

after dominating each meta since I can remember, I really don’t care if ele is dead. the profession has done nothing but push cancerous gameplay since the dawn of celestial d/d.

you must be in water attunement irl to cry this much.

Aza.2105:

These are all awful changes, I’m sorry but you don’t understand anything about class balance. DH is in a ok spot right now, other classes like Mesmer and Rev outshine them. All the complaining is a L2P issue. Hopefully Anet doesn’t give into absurd whining such as this.

“there are two other overpowered professions this makes mine okay”.

don’t have a joke for you, your argument is already funny enough.

Supreme.3164:

“Unbalance” looks like this:

Profession A: block-block-block-distortion-block-stealth-distortion-heal-burst-block (repeat on very low CD )

VS

Profession B: heal-heal-dodge-dodge-1m long CD defensive utility-heal……eat dmg..eat dmg..dodge

Block/stealth/dodges is sustain whether you like it or not..sustain is not just healing, if you want to nerf my healing….we must nerf also your block/stealth/dodges that’s just simple logic

This is why I defend guard, we can’t just nerf guard and leave revenant, mesmer and thief untouched, they do too much kittening dmg for the sustain they have

Low CD blocks
Easy access to stealth
Chainable dodges on very low CD
Insta burst with little to zero tell again on very low CD
Conditions stacks that eat your life in few secs

Is this what makes GW2 more balanced than others MMO?…if yes then you’re sadly deluded

you’re completely delusional if you think Mesmer, Revenant, or Thief have anywhere near the same level of sustain and damage as Symbol DH.

sinject.4607:

this is just how stupid the current symbol build is:

Shield of Wrath -> Aegis -> Aegis -> Shield of Courage -> Purification (heals them back to full lmao) -> Aegis -> Smite Condition -> Wings of Resolve -> Shield of Absorption -> Aegis -> Shield of Resolve -> Aegis -> Renewed Focus -> Shield of Courage -> Shield of Wrath -> Purification (another full heal) -> etc.

(not mentioning the defensive pressure/boons of symbols and traps)

No other profession in the game has this kind of non-stop defensive rotation. Herald, Daredevil, and Chronomancer all have sizable, exploitable gaps in their defenses that can result in death if hit properly. Dragonhunter does not.

Aza.2105:

Its kind of funny that a lot of people are complaining about DH. DH didn’t receive any buffs this patch, GUARDIAN however did. Traps are the same as they were last season, so is long bow, the only thing that changed is the heavy light trait. Which has nothing to do with damage.

Damage is the same as it was last season, complainers just need something to complain about since they need to justify why they aren’t winning.

you’re lying. Symbol DH is a direct result of the recent buffs. Nobody here is talking about Longbow/GS or trapper DH. the problem is Symbol DH combined with the overpowered Purification heal.

you’re either purposely trying to derail the focus on this overpowered build or you’re just ignorant about your own profession.

Evilek.5690:

sinject.4607 Every single season after HoT is on low division many DH and why ? Noobs dont learn this game. I have zero problem with DH when i play Revenant,Necromancer,Engineer,Ranger or Mesmer.

your insight is as good as your English. come back when you improve both.

Saiyan.1704:

I said prepatch that DH needed Virtue changes to increase our sustains but no one beleived me, not even Arken. Now DH sustains better and players wonder why… well our weaknesses lessened; F2 & F3 no longer gets interrupted randomly and other classes received their minor shave of nerfs which was good. But…

• 1-hander symbols could use a 5% to 7% damage nerf as it’s AoE is slightly better than Hammer. That’s because it goes through reflect & DH F3 block effects, making it ideal.
• That said, Hammer trait hydromancy needs a 100% hit rate on crits rather than 50% because the burst needed during the right clutch moments isn’t there.

Ele needs their bruiser buffs now that Clerics are removed and Engi needs.. idk, it feels like they’re missing something..

This isn’t a “omg you solved the mystery” post, there’s just so many players who simply have no clue how to fight DH… let alone multiple ones in SoloQ.

“Lessened weaknesses”

understatement of the year. Dragonhunter has literally no weaknesses whatsoever now. they have no problem against condition specs, they have no problem against power specs, they have no problem against CC, they have no problem against anything.

tactics wise, they have no weakness against kiting (the only profession that can kite them is Druid, everything else doesn’t even come close to having the ranged pressure needed to do this, and this is barely doable for even good Druids), attrition, heavy pressure, or burst. they can respond to all of it.

the worst part is that it’s completely unskillful too. there’s absolutely no worry with managing CDs because you can just rotate through them all without issue, and the tiny gaps between those are covered by the passive traits you guys can freely invest in; and if people do manage to cut through the avalanche of mitigation DH has, they can just heal to full with Purification/Wings of Resolve, which now are pretty much free casts thanks to the additional stability they now have.

we went from having barely any DHs in ranked to there always being at least 2-4 in every single game. we’ve seen this happen before with most professions: Elementalist, Engineer, Warrior, Mesmer, and Revenant namely- and they’ve all been nerfed as a result. a mere 5-7% damage nerf on Symbol DH won’t dent it in the slightest.

If DH are on 1-hander weapon sets, pressure in moderation while kiting him the best you can as stacked symbols deal quite a bit of aoe damages. Make him drop Purification in a place where it will less likely trigger. Force him to eventually strafe in that area, limiting his Smite Condition, melee range, etc. A half healthed DH means he can be retargeted and focused down.

1. your suggestion for playing against Purification is impossible in conquest. a good DH will almost always drop it on point. poison wont work either because of Smiter’s Boon and Hunter’s Fortification.
2. you can’t kite a Symbol DH. they can close gaps pretty easily and Scepter can handily respond to most ranged weapons, they also have various shields and blocks which again makes this a bad idea for anyone save for Druid.

the unavoidable truth is that Purification needs to be nerfed to either not heal if the trap doesn’t actually hit a player or just get nerfed in overall healing. aegis/stability up-time needs nerfs. S/F + Sc/Sh needs a 10-15% minimum overall damage nerf. these sets are just outright too defensively substantive to be doing the kind of damage they do.

Symbol DH now parallels pre-nerfs Scrapper 1:1 – way too much healing, way too much damage, way too much mitigation (blocks/condi cleanse/stability); therefore DH should be treated with nerfs as Scrapper was. it’s that simple.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Zelulose.8695:

An example of Guardian damage potential. Although they are test dummies I doubt any other class can do this even with Berzerker amulet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMqRxL5o4I

and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKDTAs4RiA

It is being ganked by surprise with this that upsets the community. I am always ready for it but even then it is annoying to have to account for because any time I let my guard down I could instantly be killed this is not the case for most other classes. If these guardians were dying as fast as they killed It would be fine but they last too long with their respective amount of damage. Not to mention my previous post about undogeable guardian fields that fan the flame.

Dying to traps…I have nothing more to say

you’re missing the point entirely. the point is, similar to Scrapper pre-nerfs, DH now has a crazy amount of self-sustain while still hitting absurdly hard, and this is simply because they’re designed to do this; even their traps provide them with sustain, something no other profession with traps cant boast.

how can you tell this is broken? simply look at their traitlines. every single investment is defensive and yet they still can output damage on-par with thieves, who have to invest heavily into damage modifiers. thanks to this, Dragonhunters now have almost zero windows of vulnerability.

this is just how stupid the current symbol build is:

Shield of Wrath → Aegis → Aegis → Shield of Courage → Purification (heals them back to full lmao) → Aegis → Smite Condition → Wings of Resolve → Shield of Absorption → Aegis → Shield of Resolve → Aegis → Renewed Focus → Shield of Courage → Shield of Wrath → Purification (another full heal) → etc.

and this is all why outputting severe damage, particularly AoE and CC, and maintaining a good amount of stability to boot. they have so many sources of sustain that you can rotate through them incredibly easily without ever not having something to fall back on. the concept of skillful CD management goes out the window.

how is this ANY different from how Scrapper used to be?

i’ve predicted almost every major nerf that’s happened in this game, i know what i’m talking about.

no one will care without you taking the precaution of banning overpowered builds.

symbol DH, condizerker, condichrono, and pet chaperone druid is all you’re gonna see, and im more than willing to bet the winner will be playing one of these specs.

completely unfun to both compete in and watch.

holychampion.7386:

Traps weren’t buffed in the previous patch. Guardians main buffs were in core skills and weapon mechanics.

Bow didn’t get buffed
Traps didn’t get buffed
DH tratis weren’t buffed

Your statement implies that the class is top tier because of those 2 (first 2) factors.
I humbly ask you:
*How many games do you have
*Against who are you fighting
*What amulet are you using

Considering there has always been much debate regarding the class because of its mechanic (being useless in top tier pvp and over the top in lowest tier) I really don’t have much to say except for the fact that I think you’re low tier and fighting low tier enemies. And yes, against unsuspecting enemies which are the ones you usually find in low tier pvp you will have the upper hand.

P.S: Keep playing until you are at 4k games and get matched against ppl who usually make it into late Legendary season. If you manage to keep stating at that point that traps are OP I will be glad to see your videos.

dragonhunter right now is the new scrapper. it’s imbalanced and you’re being competently disingenuous by suggesting otherwise- there would not be this many DHs in ranked if it wasn’t the easy new fotm profession.

the only thing holding DH back in the first place was the prevalence of Tempests and Scrappers with their plentiful reflects, and now both of those have seen heavy reductions in overall use. DH doesn’t have to use bow at all anymore, and most are running S/F with Sc/Sh because they’ve been overbuffed with their new symbol mechanics.

here’s balance issues DH has:

• Hunter’s Ward and Dragon’s Maw – knocks you down if you teleport/evade out. even if those skills are stunbreakers, forcing you to waste way more resources than you really should to survive.
• Purification – heals for way too much. second heal goes off regardless of whether or not the trap actually hits anything (aka the guard is blinded, you evade/block/invuln it, and it still heals full). wouldn’t be as overpowered if it weren’t for the fact this conquest.
• Aegis uptime – everything DHs do gives them Aegis. wouldn’t be so egregious without the slew of other blocks (Shield of Wrath, Shield of Courage, Shield of Judgement, Mace…). this gives DH an absurd amount of condition cleanse as well.
• Renewed Focus – completely ridiculous when paired with DH’s virtues. Shield of Courage specifically needs a nerf

overall, DH can maintain just a stupid amount of CC/damage on point and still have A TON of passive and active sustain. i see no difference in this brainlessness bandwagon and scrapper’s.

Reveille.8397:

Patch Notes:

Reduced scrapper DPS by 50%

Resolved an issue where players were still playing Engineers

Easier fix if you want to get rid of the last few engineer players.

P.S. – The problem is not that the class is overpowered, it is likely because you played someone who is really good. That could have happened on any class…In my opinion though, it is easiest for me to kill while I am playing Warrior, Necromancer, Thief, Mesmer, Ranger….while I struggle with Elementalist and Engineer. This is coming from someone who is not claiming to be good, so the fact that I can run over people on the first 4 classes even though i have no clue what I am doing should really be an apples to apples look at which classes are easy mode.

better take some potassium supplements because all that salt can’t be good for your blood pressure.

not a single person is going to take you serious when you start saying things like “elementalist and engineer are harder to play than thief”