Guild Wars 2

event up on anvil rock

JakobGW.5730:

My first video, for entertainment purposes only.

What to expect:

1. Minimal stealth;
2. No abuse of back-to-back C&D;
3. Fervent use of Infiltrator’s Strike;
4. Use of the underappreciated and often over-looked Flanking Strike;
5. Some trash talking.

If you don’t like the flashy stuff, skip to 6:30 for a lengthy fight. The guild of the victim in the first sequence jumps us when we begin attacking a Dolyak nearby. There is no music, just the raw teamspeak at the time of the fight. When they jump us, we have three, plus a pug commander who happened to be attacking the yak at the same time. Props to [FURY] of Maguuma for an exciting fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UfRccVghXA

Hm…Like the music but man you zerg people down much?

XZERO.3014:

They are increasing skill cap, and providing counter play. Avoid backstab and when thief comes out of stealth he can’t re stealth. I agree with these changes and I’m a thief main, and don’t make me write an essay about this topic, so ill just say this, in structured pvp I ran a CnD specific build, to keep stealth time to a maximum, and I killed people timing CnD right and never leaving stealth.

Why don’t you take your CnD chain to a TPVP and see how that works out for you…

Adaneshade.2409:

Sifu.6527:

ensoriki.5789:

swinsk.6410:

ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.

We all know how to avoid them.

My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.

You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.

It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.

The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.

In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.

Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/D

No-
S/P
P/P
SB

It affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.

You make the false assumption that everyone with dagger offhand uses a stealth spamming play-style; when, in fact, most do not. Most using that set already break stealth with an attack, and any “stacking” they do is simply stacking of the duration which has not been affected as they never actually “LEAVE” stealth to do that.

You made a false assumption that the OP was providing an opinion but he was merely stating a fact. This change will affect those weapon sets that are listed.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sifu.6527:

ensoriki.5789:

swinsk.6410:

ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.

We all know how to avoid them.

My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.

You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.

It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.

The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.

In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.

Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/D

No-
S/P
P/P
SB

It affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.

How exactly does it affect D/P? :/

What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…

Drawing Guy.3701:

I do wonder – he relied on CnD spam multiple times to stay permastealth for recovery, and that “tool” (read as “crutch”) will be lost. What will he use instead? Change traits for dodges? Drop SoS for another stealth utility for powder? Curious. But then to be honest, I doubt he will not be terribly affected – he’s not the burst and run builds that rely on the permastealth waiting for a target to 25/30/0/0/15 (or close iteration) burst – he is aggressive and has the same affect as he would have in most cases anyways. The culling removal is likely to have a bigger affect on him. =d

Can you tell me how to perma stealth with 25/30/0/015? I would really like to see that as I can only CnD maybe 2-3 times before I have to wait for init regen…

Turbofakitten69:

skupuz.6940:

Thieves are getting nerf (right or wrong; that is a matter of opinion but the nerf is coming). They basically took thieves ability to fight 1vX. Can they still do it? Yes, but it will be 10x harder with the upcoming changes.

Since Ele is the only other class that can reliably 1vX, thief player will probably flock to the D/D Ele and we will see a surge of them in WvW. QQs will continue on the forum and the Ele will get nerf. The FOTM was thief, now it will be D/D ele, then so on. The problem is that after the FOTM is over, the class is left underpowered.

What’s your prediction after the March 26 patch?

How do you know Thief will be nerfed? Are you just guessing or is there detailed info on the patch somewhere?

They will lose their ability to chain stealth thus making it harder to fight multiple targets. It will be in the March 26 patch.

DiogoSilva.7089:

There will exist more means to counter boons, which should make it eaiser to counter dd bunker eles.

It is in discussion. Using “will exist” is speaking about something that is definite…

Intigo.1653:

No. Backstab Thief still works great after the change.

Since Ele is the only other class that can reliably 1vX

Such a laughable statement to make.

What is there to laugh about? Sorry but the only classes that can reliably 1vx and get away are ele and thief. Sorry, forgot to include “get away.”

Can other classes do it too? Yes, but not as effective as ele/thief.

Thieves are getting nerf (right or wrong; that is a matter of opinion but the nerf is coming). They basically took thieves ability to fight 1vX. Can they still do it? Yes, but it will be 10x harder with the upcoming changes.

Since Ele is the only other class that can reliably 1vX, thief player will probably flock to the D/D Ele and we will see a surge of them in WvW. QQs will continue on the forum and the Ele will get nerf. The FOTM was thief, now it will be D/D ele, then so on. The problem is that after the FOTM is over, the class is left underpowered.

What’s your prediction after the March 26 patch?

mbh.8301:

Jzaku.9765:

“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”

-They said that thieves mobility needs to be redistributed, and not just have shortbow be the greatest weapon ever
-Necros do have a lot of playable builds

Why do they need to redistribute thief mobility?

Steal – 900 range
SB – 900 range IA
D/D – 450 range HS
D/P – 450 range HS and 900 range SS
S/X – 600 range IS
P/D – 600 range SS (don’t remember the exact range)
P/P – No mobility needed since it is a range weapon. Same could be said for SB and P/D

So all weapon sets has some form of mobility. This does not include heal and utilities.

I not trying to complain about Anet giving us a buff but they’re buffing the wrong thing here.

This won’t hurt spvp that much. It will hurt in WvW by a lot.

EnRohbi.2187:

I don’t know where you heard this, I wouldn’t mind if you cited your source.
I have certainly not heard this information.

But if it is true,
Great.
I don’t want to be a zerg’s veil kitten any more than I ever liked being people’s portal kitten.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/377719641

State of the Game discussions

Around the 56Min mark they started talking about thief and stealth.

Thanks to all of the thief QQ posts, there will be a reveal debuff after coming out of stealth.

While guilds and roaming groups will still use veil, it just became impossible to use multiple veils to launch a long distance surprise attack.

On the bright side, you get to see/fight the thief.

I am fine with the nerf. I will adjust.

However, the only thing I want is this:

Please allow our heal “Hide in Shadow” to ignore the reveal debuff.

Sinsko.9342:

When a CLASS DEFINING ability that we’ve been using for the last 6 months (and almost a year if you played through the betas) gets changed… you have to wonder what happened.

However, the patch notes were very subtle about the change, and I personally haven’t seen a post from ArenaNet.

Why was stealth changed?
Is there a post (from ArenaNet) explaining the reason for the change?

I’ve seen discussion threads like these:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Enemies-are-expert-trackers-now-stealth/
But would love to get a REAL response.

I would like to hear their thought process behind this one.

ensoriki.5789:

That’s when used via stealthed. However there is no reason to do that, as the pet goes after them as soon as they come out of stealthed otherwise it tries to return to you as per normal. When they come out it goes back to chase them with it’s redonculus long leash range. This can mean keeping track of a thief is easier and makes reselecting easier as well because of it. At which pt when the pet goes out again, you can feint its rush to waste a CnD and start him off at a disadvantage. Means jack if they’re using D/P though or aren’t stealth based (S/P, P/P, SB)

I usually leave the ranger alone because when I pass by Fido is on a leash and doesn’t bother me much.

Not that Fido in on a rampage, that kittening ranger is going to get stomped.

ensoriki.5789:

Tooltip doesn’t match skill.
Assume skill is wrong, despite updates showing no precedence for that thought.

If players suggest changing a weapon that barely sees play into further obscurity.
Question wtf people are saying.

Just because they haven’t done anything doesn’t mean it is intended. I could CnD keep’s wall during beta and after release. It only got nerf recently because it finally showed up on their radar and up on their list of to do.

I don’t care if one person or several thousands play this weapon set. Either update tool tip or change it to match tool tip.

How can we ask them to fix things like shadow step not breaking stun when we’re not honest and upfront about bugs that favor us?

What does the scouter says about T1 stacking power level?

IT IS OVER 9000!!!!!

ensoriki.5789:

skupuz.6940:

BobbyT.7192:

skupuz.6940:

Adaneshade.2409:

Same range as mesmer portal, nothing to see here, move along.

A 90sec utility vs a spammable ability…come on now….

The tooltip says 1200 range. I don’t think 3600 range is intended.

it’s 90sec because you can teleport your whole party, 3 more parties, and their relatives in one go.
Plus you can’t really spam 3600 range if you got to walk that first.

You cant spam it but there’s really no CD on it.

Don’t use 1 OP ability to justify a broken mechanic. Just make it 1200 as the tool tip states. Is that too much to ask for?

If you port 3600 range you are gone and you are not coming back lol wtf.

Anyways anet
please fix that Shadow return doesn’t stun break knockbacks, pulls and launches.

Hm… let me see.

If a bug is in your favor, then don’t fix it. (Shadow Return exceed tool tip distance = benefit)

If a bug isn’t in your favor, then fix it. (Shadow Return not breaking stealth = negative)

No wonder so many people hate thieves.

Auesis.7301:

In what universe is this somehow an overperformance? How on earth do you fight? Do you drag each other half-way across the map within the 15 seconds the Thief has before he can use the Return and leave you standing alone miles away from your original location? Couple that with both the fact that IS cannot function on anything except flat terrain, and that you know where the Thief originated from so can plan ahead, and this is a complete non-issue.

It’s not like the Thief can plant his IS, fight on the front line for a few minutes and then port back when he’s in trouble. He has 15 seconds. FIFTEEN. Most 1v1 fights are usually over by then…

In WvW, fight do drag out far from it’s original location.

BobbyT.7192:

skupuz.6940:

Adaneshade.2409:

Same range as mesmer portal, nothing to see here, move along.

A 90sec utility vs a spammable ability…come on now….

The tooltip says 1200 range. I don’t think 3600 range is intended.

it’s 90sec because you can teleport your whole party, 3 more parties, and their relatives in one go.
Plus you can’t really spam 3600 range if you got to walk that first.

You cant spam it but there’s really no CD on it.

Don’t use 1 OP ability to justify a broken mechanic. Just make it 1200 as the tool tip states. Is that too much to ask for?

Adaneshade.2409:

Same range as mesmer portal, nothing to see here, move along.

A 90sec utility vs a spammable ability…come on now….

The tooltip says 1200 range. I don’t think 3600 range is intended.

Currently, Infiltrator Strike is over performing because the Shadow Return portion of it is longer then 1200 range. I havent tested the max range yet but it looks like it is 3600 range (no one should have a 3600 range blink/teleport). Please remember to add this to your next balance patch. Thanks.

Agree with you.

They need to tone down the following traits.

Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

I didn’t touch preparedness as it gives us roughly 20-25% more resources which is in line with cool down decrease that other classes have.

Initiative allows use to spam abilities. We pick and chose which attack to use within the constraint of the overall init pool. When we have too much of it or the init regen is out of control, it is unbalance. When other classes can only achieves 20-25% reduction in CD, it think it is safe to say a 50-75% recharge rate on init is too much. We shouldn’t be able to have our cake and eat it too…

kuora.5402:

skupuz.6940:

Yaro.3251:

Will never be on the level of what?

As someone above said, you can focus on things that produce all the shiny booms on the screen and smash as much buttons as you can as a main tactic. But you’ll lose hopelessly to other teams that are of different opinion. That should be obviously clear.

You still need to track most vulnerable parts of your opponent’s raid and have these parts as priority targets. You still need to counter boons and cc, and for sure you need to know when and how to safely fall back and reengage. Being a 25, not 5 player group against same numbers just makes it that much harder.

Does fight get less personal with scale? Yes, sure. As scale goes up, you focus less and less on single targets, you generally don’t stomp (and do not need to know all subtleties around proper stomping), your skill bar in general looks less like a row of timers. That’s all true. But with scale comes complexity, your skill timing relative to that of other raidmates and synergy in both offense and defense.

Ultimately, GvG is a duel of two giants where you personally control only a part of the body. It doesn’t mean everybody just have to stay together while smashing all buttons. But if your giant acts and reacts as quickly as single player, only with 25x number of skills on skillbar, you have perfect raid. That’s an utopia of course, just analogy taken to the extreme to highlight a flaw in your attitude.

Looking at comments above I’m starting to think that you just don’t see real thing behind all graphical noise.

P.S. I’ve just realized something. While commenting I was referring specifically to the kinds of battles RG had with ZDs. If you got bored by first minutes, with all due respect to all the guilds in OP’s videos, real deal starts around 14:43 of the first video. First, some open field encounters and then pre-arranged GvG.

Your comment regarding stomping or lack there of basically reinforce my argument. When you basically remove a core game mechanic in 25v25, you lessen the complexity of the engagement…

… If you think you can muster up random 25, even 40 people to fight any one of these two guilds, I will pay for your transfer, lol. Remember to upload your video of getting drilled on your backside.

But seriously, your perspective of mid-sized GvG battle which apparently requires no skill amuses me greatly.

Show me where I said I can muster up 25 random or that 25v25 requires no skills at all? All I was staying is small fights are more complex than 25v25.

The guy posted his video for people to watch and since it is in the forum for people to comment. As for me, I posted my opinion. Nothing more nothing yes. But in the case of you, please learn to not put words in someone mouth…

Yaro.3251:

Will never be on the level of what?

As someone above said, you can focus on things that produce all the shiny booms on the screen and smash as much buttons as you can as a main tactic. But you’ll lose hopelessly to other teams that are of different opinion. That should be obviously clear.

You still need to track most vulnerable parts of your opponent’s raid and have these parts as priority targets. You still need to counter boons and cc, and for sure you need to know when and how to safely fall back and reengage. Being a 25, not 5 player group against same numbers just makes it that much harder.

Does fight get less personal with scale? Yes, sure. As scale goes up, you focus less and less on single targets, you generally don’t stomp (and do not need to know all subtleties around proper stomping), your skill bar in general looks less like a row of timers. That’s all true. But with scale comes complexity, your skill timing relative to that of other raidmates and synergy in both offense and defense.

Ultimately, GvG is a duel of two giants where you personally control only a part of the body. It doesn’t mean everybody just have to stay together while smashing all buttons. But if your giant acts and reacts as quickly as single player, only with 25x number of skills on skillbar, you have perfect raid. That’s an utopia of course, just analogy taken to the extreme to highlight a flaw in your attitude.

Looking at comments above I’m starting to think that you just don’t see real thing behind all graphical noise.

P.S. I’ve just realized something. While commenting I was referring specifically to the kinds of battles RG had with ZDs. If you got bored by first minutes, with all due respect to all the guilds in OP’s videos, real deal starts around 14:43 of the first video. First, some open field encounters and then pre-arranged GvG.

Your comment regarding stomping or lack there of basically reinforce my argument. When you basically remove a core game mechanic in 25v25, you lessen the complexity of the engagement…

Yaro.3251:

CrassBippy.4619:

ill post here what i did there

not to bash, but these videos would be much more interesting if you did small GvG fights to show skill. like 5v5, still kinda cool but its just a mess of twirling damage, not much to really watch

Believe me, there’s as much details, facepalm and omg moments, synergy and skill in 25 vs 25 fights as it is in duels and 5 vs 5.

It’s just that naked (or untrained) eye may not catch all of it, may not “connect the dots” and not be able to reconstruct on the fly what happens tactically at any given moment in fight. It all looks like blob of fiery animation for uninitiated but there’s beauty, skill, synergy and supreme lighting fast decision making in these fireworks.

It’s like watching quality ping-pong. Pon-pon-pon Point! Wha…what? What happened? Was there a ball even? Too much information too fast.

I’m totally have to disagree with you. 25v25 is nothing more than button smashing. Are there tactic and strategy involved? Some what but it comes down to who has more aoe CC, aoe damage, and aoe buff/boon.

25 v 25 fights will never be on the same level of a 5v5 or even 10 v 10 where you actually have to know which target to take out first, how to counter boons, how to fall back and re-engage, etc.

Is your video nice to watch? Yes, it is shiny.

Lasraik.9285:

Is picking a specific race as a Thief important? Are there certain races that you should avoid choosing as Thief?

Yes,

No no to big kitten norn and charr.

Yes yes to tiny asura.

Can’t go wrong with human.

Dr Aneurysm.7028:

I saved up 8000 dungeon tokens from 4 different dungeons, and 250g as well.

Spent all of it on exotic greatswords from the TP, and dungeon swords from trading in tokens (each greatsword was either 390 tokens or between 3-4g)

Not only did I not get a precursor, but I didn’t once get even a “semi” rare sword (one of the ones worth more than the standard 3-4g). I got mostly pearl and carrion greatswords with one or two skybringers and a dhummseal.

After going 18 daily rounds in FotM at lvls 10 and 20 in a row without so much as a ring, let alone a glob or vial of pink mist, and now this, it seems the entire “end game” is based off of the terrible RNG.

Anyway, just thought I’d put this out there in case anyone else was thinking of spending money and dungeon tokens on the mystic forge to try and obtain a precursor. I’m uninstalling the game myself, I just don’t really see the point in playing anymore. I’ve seen all the content, really was just trying to get further into the FotM and/or get my legendary (which I had all the components for with the exception of the precursor. It’s been fun guild wars, but the RNG just kills this for me.

Lets see here. I’m going to use the current price of 650g for the dusk.

You have 250g and all of the components to craft it.

100 Icy Rune Stone – 100g
250 Ecto – 100g
250 Onxy Lodestone – 187g
250 Powerful Blood – 71g
250 Powerful Venom -30g
250 Vicious Claw – 35g
250 Cystalline Dust -37g
250 Vicious Fang – 41g
250 Armored Scale – 31g
250 Ancient Bone – 13g
250 Elaborate Totem – 50g
Various other things you could sell – 50g

You have close to 1000g yet you decided to gamble all your cash on the MF. Instead, you could of sold some of your crafting material (ones that are easy to farm) to buy dusk. Crappy planning and luck on your part.

Bottom line is this; IT WAS WITHIN YOUR REACH – you just chose to gamble it…

EnRohbi.2187:

skupuz.6940:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

It’s almost like Anet didn’t balance WvW for 5v5 or 8v8…

B/c 5v5, 8v8, or small scale fights do not happen in WvW…oh wait you’re a mesmer….

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

Churchill.8714:

Yeah I really don’t know how many times people can say that the SoS that earned T1 is the SoS that was in the lower tiers – only we lost PRX and their entourage in the process and proved them to be a non-factor to our success.

It gets old, the martyr complex gets old, and worst of all the ruining of T1 until you collapse just because your feelings were hurt for 3 months is incredibly selfish and indicative of the type of people running JQ.

Being objective is too OP for some, and why not when it’s much easier to nail your arms to a cross and kick your feet at your persecutors.

Be humble of where you came from and thankful to the people who helped you along the way. I’m sure PRX contributed greatly to SoS success.

Archer.1658:

Oozo.7856:

Archer.1658:

To sum up:

This thread is now about how Oozo got destroyed by a confusion mesmer and now he feels its justified nerfing it based off that. Awesome, while we’re at it, nerf guardian heals, nerf any classes burst damage and removal mesmers and instill clown as a profession.

One half projection and the other half strawman arguments. Well done.

You feel that nerfing it is justified based on what? The amount of damage it does? Im not getting this. Majority of people have said its a L2P issue, yet you insist it is not. It’s very clear you are upset that you lost to a confusion mesmer or engineer or w/e confusion spec profession that apparently demoralized you to continue this crusade in trying to nerf confusion. Again, if you want confusion nerfed, then here are the terms. Nerf guardian healing by x% and burst damage on all professions by x% to be fair. Considering these are Op as well.

I know your post is in repose to Oozo but please allow me answer this for you.

It needs a nerf because Anet never intended it to hit so hard in WvW. The reason you have two different multiplier for Spvp and WvW is to compensate for slow attacking pve mobs thus doing 100% more damage than Spvp. This is fine from a pve standpoint.
From a WvW standpoint, the damage is too high.

They need to push the Spvp build out to WvW so everyone is playing on the same rule sets.

Thief CnD does less damage in Spvp than WvW. Guardian save yourselves is on a lower duration in Spvp than WvW. And so on. This all need to be push into WvW build.

fishergrip.4082:

A while back Anet reduced confusion damage in sPvP by 50 percent because it is simply overpowered when used against other players. I see more and more mesmers spamming confusion in WvW that causes 1-2k damage per ability use. This is simply too much damage for a condition that can trigger 3-4 times per second. They should add the 50% reduction to WvW.

Not sure why people are defending this. Anet already made changes in sPvP because it is OP. The only reason it does 100% more damage in WvW is because PvE build is tie to WvW – you will have pver QQing.

Bottom line is this.

We either go strictly spvp build meaning no food, no oil/crystal/etc and use the same build as spvp or we deal with it so we can enjoy being a bit different.

Iohanna.4863:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

Slight change to build; just mixed in a few Berserker pieces with for more lethality. I concluded that most of my survivability comes from my traits and abilities, rather than my stats.

Now I have just enough Toughness to survive surprise butt-sex, and enough lethality to deliver surprise butt-sex.

I think I just fought you. Did you really run 4/5 times? I guess this build is good for that.

Guts.4967:

So everybody is running 3 ele comp, and it’s god mod in teamfight, we really need the patch to see a balance patch or what ?

The Ele class does not need a nerf.

Boon duration stacking is the unseen culprit here. This is true for classes that can stack a lot of boons for long duration. Guardian, Ele, etc.

Masamoon.3864:

As long as you’re not a glass cannon, it won’t matter much. The side with the better chain of CC and less glass cannons will win most of the time.

The side with more mesmers usually wins. 2-3 timewarp and reflect > wtf ever else other classes can bring.

I don’t know but the rate of fire of the short bow auto attack seems off. It says .25 cast time, which is correct, but there is a pause after you finish casting so the rate of fire is actually closer to 1 per sec.

Do you guys notice this too? The rate of fire should be the same as the ranger’s short bow auto…

Void.4239:

i’m a thief in pvp and i’m not afraid to say that the mug trait is OP compared to other 10 point traits.
i woudnt add 5 stacks of bleeding tho , 2-3stacks max or maybe 3 mights stacks instead of pure dps

i woud prefer the 3 mights stacks. it adds to conditioners and the crit builds ( so no1 will be left out )

Atm Mug adds to much dps to an already cool mechanic

lets see what thiefs mechanic realy does or can do

steal does:
- stun breaker( more or less )
- teleport
- skills stolen : mostly they add an advantage against the class you stole from ( some are beter then others but they are realy powerfull when used correctly )

steal can have added :

- 3 ini regen
- poison
- stealth
- mug dps => 1k-6k depending on build ( the max hit you can get with it is to high )

skill recharge is between 32-45 secs

again every thief that says mug is fine like it is = selfish and is afraid he will loos the advantage the skill brings with it.

we really don’t need the mug trait to be killers, but atm we forced to use it cause its just to OP

Other classes “F” abilities

Ele:
-AOE Might/Protection/Regen/Swiftness
-With battle run can keep 9 stack of might up perm
-The highest CD you will get is 15 sec

Ranger:
-Pet class
-Pet abilities
-Quickness
-Boons
-10 sec CD

Necro:
-Another bar of health
-Fear
-Boons
-10 sec CD

Warrior
-High Damage
-Range Knockdown
-Boons
-Immo + Condition Damage
-10 sec CD

Guardian
-Boons, Burning, healing, blind, etc
-CD varies

Engi
-Boons and utilities

Mesmer
-High AOE Damage 10 sec CD
-Daze
-Inv
-Confusion

Thief
-45 sec gap closer with Damage and bundle item

Thief have the highest CD of all F1 abilities. Only some stolen items are useful.
It is useful for its gap closer and burst damage. It is in line with other classes’ F1 abilities.

Slamz.5376:

skupuz.6940:

An ele can block trebs from hitting the door/wall. Whats the point again?

Exaggeration.

I don’t like elementalists being able to block treb shots either but the only way to reliably stop a treb from damaging a wall is to stand in front of the wall, which isn’t going to be tolerated for long. The real use of swirling winds is to stop a treb from being hit by another treb. Then you can stand beside it (likely on top of a wall or inside a tower), block shots AND be perfectly safe.

As a thief how do I protect my treb from getting hit by another treb?

Slamz.5376:

Ragnar.4257:

I play warrior, thief and elementalist in WvW, warrior most of the time now. I can’t think that I’ve ever lost a 1v1 with a thief while on my warrior. Sometimes they escape, and sometimes I have to back off, but never lost.

One of the chief points of the thread is not 1v1, but the ability to stop a thief from destroying siege engines.

With their ability to constantly stealth, it’s virtually impossible to keep them off of siege. The best you can do is AE the area and get them to move away but that’s only going to keep them off for about 5 seconds, and then they’ll be back.

Net result is always the same:
10+ siege defenders are running around swinging wildly at the air while the thief pops around slowly killing all the siege in the field. 1 thief can still be there dealing damage long after a group of 5 bunker elementalists (or any other class or combo) would have been killed.

Invisibility is simply the best “tank” ability in the game, and it’s on the highest DPS class.

An ele can block trebs from hitting the door/wall. Whats the point again?

Grizledorf.5290:

Nuka Cola.8520:

What he said isn’t false. Lots of people on this forum say stuff such as “i destroy stealth thieves bla bla bla” but this is all lies or they’re killing a theif that is already being attacked by many other players. You need to be new to the game/new to a thief to lose against a ranger on one. Thief has counters to everything a ranger can do, ranger can’t even do anything to immobilize lol. There’s not point of even dualing a thief on a ranger, reroll to a mes or d/d ele and then see sup.

My main is a d/d thief, mesmer is probably the easiest class for me to kill, (after other thieves). D/D ele are also fairly simple to kill. Even the BEST mesmers are still the easiest kills especially now that they can’t insta-gib with shatters. Good rangers are a lot harder to kill, they can easily out run me. D/D ele can run, but not for long.

I had to reply to this comment. Please educate me how a ranger outrun a d/d ele…

LMFAO!!! Tried this is my thief and it hits for 6-8k. Having a lot of fun.

Daemon.4295:

In a duel you should be able to beat a thief fairly easily, as you can pick your skills accordingly. Thief is all about burst, absorb it and you should win. Depends on your build, but I’d slot unguent, protect me, traited sos, qz, entangle. Wolf and drakehound. He did call you out OP, you pretty much have to fight him now.

You should get out more…not all thieves are about burst.

Different Thief Builds

-D/D burst (this is your typical burst thief build. This guy live on the fast lane. Kill fast and die fast.)
-D/D balance BS build (3K+Attack, 2500+ toughness, stealth in and out, regen, conditional removal in stealth, etc. This is what I run. An overall good build to counter most players.)
-D/D unicorn condition build (tons of evade. Good luck hitting this guy. 15+stack of bleed in short duration. Good stun breaker, regen, condition removal, toughness, healing power, etc).
-D/P infinite stealth build (ultimate troll build. If both players commit to the fight, this thief will come out with 100% health left. Good toughness, regen, condition removal, etc)
-P/P burst (this is kind of like the D/D burst build. Kill fast die fast.)
-P/D condition build (another troll build. Similar to D/D but focus on stealthing in and out and bleeding you to dealth. pretty hard to beat this build due to high toughness, regen, condition remove, 20K health, etc.)
-S/P burst (this build is built around daze and pistol whipping you to dealth)
-S/D balance (daze lock build. Most people cannot counter this due to limited stun breaker. This build allows you to have a stun breaker on the weapon set with it’s teleport)

I might be missing a few more builds but you get the point. The only builds listed above that a ranger have a chance of killing is burst D/D, P/P and S/P burst (this is assuming both player are equally skilled). The other builds will either eat the ranger alive or will be a tough fight for the ranger. Like I posted early in this thread, the ranger is fighting an uphill battle. This is at least just my opinion.

Frenk.5917:

Hi fellow thieves. I played thief in every way it’s possible to be played (condition damage pistol/dagger, condition damage dagger/dagger, glass cannon, a mix between glass cannon and a tanky thief, pistol/pistol, sword/dagger, share-venoms) so I know virtues and lacks of each build.

Let me say one thing: share-venoms and the sword need to to be strongly buffed.

Share venoms is really a good support build but it becomes useless because of the very little radius of sharing. In the middle of a fight nobody can say “hey, group on me, I will share my venoms with you” since every second is precious. “Well, just use the venoms before entering the fight” you could argue, but often people spam the #1 before entering in the melee range so the venoms’ effect disappears. Imho ANET should increase the radius of the sharing, so that both this flaws would be fixed.

Speaking of the sword, it is really underpowered. Not for the amount of damage it deals (that’s ok, really) but because:
1) the daze duration is ridicolous. It has also been nerfed and I can’t imagine why.
2) the third skill, the skill which should deal the HIGHEST damage, is completely bugged. The first hit deals ridicolous damage (no problem with that) while the second hit deals a lot of damage and it’s what the third skill should be used for if it wasn’t for the fact that the second strike never hits, even if the enemy stands still. The evade is an interesting extra. You just have to make the animation different (maybe something like death blossom) in order to let the second strike working properly.
3) The sword has ZERO major traits that could increase its sinergy with the rest of the thief skills and this is really a shame.

I hope this may help ANET to make different builds avaible for thieves (like they said they want to do in the interview).

The only comment I have is flanking strike.

I know resources are limited and asking for a complete change of the skill will probably take time to implement. I’m looking for something reasonable and easy to fix. Maybe something like this.

Flanking Strike:

-Remove the movement from FS
-Stab your foe twice. If attacking from behind, strike will remove 1 boon and is unblockable.
-Evade all while this skill is active

muscarine.5136:

Hey

He’s not hacking, what you see here is him evading backward + swiftness from Expeditous Dodger (acrobatics 5) not rendering properly, and with a delay, on your screen, because of latency issues.

Watch the video again at 4 secs in. He dodge but no swiftness buff. Therefore, he has no trait in acrobatics…

Babayum.9204:

Was fighting that guy earlier where he was porting around too so i turned fraps on when i stumbled over him after that…

didn’t know thiefs can phase retreat now ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a27VFJD4Ux0

Looks like speed/teleport hack.

Not sure how he was moving faster than you w/o SoS…

TryGoogleThis.9570:

Run sword-touch and shortbow, chil and bleed trap, entangle, with chill on pet.
run a tough,heal,condi build and build em conds up like a mad man while being mobile, weaken from black bear also pretty viable vs thiefs.(prefer hawk/eagle in generel)

Just a example how to easily beat any thief trying that,

Thief has all the tools to counter w/e build the ranger has.
The ranger has only some tools to counter certain thief builds.

Unless it is an underwater fight. The ranger is fighting an uphill battle.

Wryscher.1432:

The only real problem I have with stealth is the heal in stealth Mechanic. Since aoe is suppose to be the counter. When a single person AOEing an area is really not a threat because of the healing, something is wrong with the ‘counter’. And you add in an as of yet undefined AOE nerf, it might get much easier for thieves.

Well and culling. But that goes without saying.

Thief laugh in your face on the forum for using aoe… We laugh at you in hopes you don’t use aoe b/c you think it is useless.

Thief are scared as hell of aoe while in game.