Guild Wars 2

There are also posts going the other way around. Bring all the game modes together (stat wise) so you wont end in such a mess. These will also be more reliable for future skills, because you wont have to implement them 3 times.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/All-Core-mechanics-of-the-game/first#post3579556
Unforunately this thread and others got ignored

Kyon.9735:

I’m talking about the ease of application, not L2P cleansing issues. I don’t have any issues with condition damage (maybe aside from torment in impale), but the rate of application is really absurd.

Conditions are just an other form of damage in GW2, they are not instant but over time and that’s all. The “ease of application” is the same thing how power builds do their damage, they hit their target.

Why do you want to be able to cleanse all condi damage, when you cant do this vs. power builds?

@Maliel: Why should it be wrong? Its not instant 20k damage, you have 12+ seconds time to cleanse it. If you cleanse it within the first seconds, it will probably only deal 1k damage. If a direct damage attack hits you you don’t have any other choice then eat it.

People need to realize that the possibility to cleanse every condition (which more cleanses would lead to) would be the same as reducing every direct damage hit by >90%.

For Direct damage this would be OP but because conditions are “the pure evil” it’s ok.

People need to learn, that a) the amount of cleanses is enough to handle the conditions in game, if you can’t it’s your builds weak spot and you probably deserve to die. and b) there is no magic around conditions that instant kills everything.

1. The offensive stats are condi damage, duration and precision (that’s 3 i would say). And those traits are within 2 trait lines (with special traits there are even more: Master of Terror, …) But I think you meant stat and not trait.

Btw. the “huge” amount of damage a condi bunker is dealing can be easily out damaged by most power tanks.

1. You wont get healed for a part of the damage a direct damage build dealt to you, after it got killed. Adding this to condition damage would be unfair.

2. condition duration is capped by 100% so you also have to increase zhis cap or you will run much faster into this cap.

Btw. direct damage builds deal more damage then condition builds even when both go tanky.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The only problem i have with most condition builds is that they are all the same it is pretty much just spam as many conditions as you can and keep spamming them. Until that is fixed then Condition builds will continue to control everything as they have more access to conditions on either low cool downs or on auto attacks than anyone has access to removals.

Conditions are just an other form of damage they “spam” as much as direct damage would do! They try to hit you and apply a condition instead of pure direct damage, that’s all. Every time a condition build would have hit you an equivalent direct damage build would have also hit you and dealt its damage. The difference is to reduce direct damage you need to get toughness and protection before you got hit and to prevent condi damage you have to cleanse afterwards (for both you can dodge/block/get invul before).

If you want to be able to cleanse every single condition on you would be the same as the ability to reduce every direct damage attack by (let’s say) 90%. Would that be fair for a direct damage build?

The best example, how traits should work is probably the warrior, because here they all fit very well. Other classes don’t follow this rules or are not well designed here.

Basically minor traits are designed to boost each other within one line:
Strength: damage with dodges, restore endurance and use dodges to increase your damage.
Arms: bleed on crit, increased crit chance, deal more damage to bleeding foes

Minor trait should be designed to give a reward for doing basic stuff: like dodging, hitting your foe, get boons, use your class mechanic, … But some are designed around specific builds (Necros Death Magic = Minion master, …)

Every trait line grant specific bonus stats power, vita, … and the traits within those lines are normally designed around a specific “topic”, that should also be boosted by the stats of that line (here are some exceptions: ranger traps (condis in power line), necros vampiric (nearly zero scaling with healing power), …).
But for most trait lines the traits are designed with a topic in mind.
Necros Death Magic is designed around Minions and staff
Warrior Tactics is designed around Banners and Shouts
…

Overall I have to say a lot of the traits are a mess only the warrior has them relatively well sorted and fitting together.

Isslair.4908:

Well consider this:

You enter a fight with someone, you both do your basic damage rotation rotatin and land some hits.

As a power build you’re faced with a choice next. You either start to go on defensive, dodging, blocking, healing, but not dealing damage. Or you continue to pressure, while taking the risk with low health.

As a condi build you don’t really have such a problem. After you landed your conditions you can focus on just surviving for some time, while you still apply pressure to the enemy. It really promotes bad gameplay style of bunkering up and outlasting opponent.

Lets take two theory builds:
Both builds attack once every second.
The direct damage build deals 1k damage instant.
The condi build deals 200damage + a 8s bleed (100dmg/sec)
The target has 15k health.

Both builds deal the same damage per hit, so both needs to hit the target 15 times to kill it. After the 15th hit, the power build is done, the condi build needs to survive 8 more seconds or attack further to kill the target faster.
______________

So in the end, its two different playstyles. The powerbuild builds up his pressure at the beginning of the fight while the condition build needs 8 seconds to build up the same pressure (1k DPS). The fight lasts longer with a condition build. And if both builds miss their attack, both lose 1k damage (the condition build has a mental advantage here, because you only see ~100DPS less (and the initial 200 direct damage), but both are effected the same way if they miss their attacks).

The “bad gameplay” of bunkering is needed, because the condition build needs longer to end his fight… but psst, there is a trick against condition builds, burst them down, before they can build up their pressure.

You have to hit your opponent with both damage types to apply your damage. Conditions wont do magically damage, just because you are in fight without hitting your enemy. The only difference is that conditions don’t apply their damage at once so when you receive damage, even if you are dodging etc. means you got hit earlier and you would have lost a lot of health from a equivalent direct damage attack.

Conditions have a mental advantage over direct damage burst, because the damage is rising. People first think they wont receive much damage so they forget about their defense until it is too late. And because conditions still deal damage while dodging/blocking most people think it is useless to do so against condi builds (which is not true) you will block new damage dealt to you, the old ones still remain same like direct damage.

Conditions are just sneaky and not as obvious as direct damage is.

Reducing crit damage in PvE wont change anything.

Most bosses will still be easier to kill using zerker gear.
Toughness will still have very small effects in PvE.
Condition damage will still suffer on that stupid cap.
Control effects will still remain useless.
…

Condition damage is fine in general, the only things that have to be changed is:

• the condition cap. It has to be removed
• the massive condition cleans capabilities in WvW Zerks have to be reduced.

Your posts were removed, because they were just spam

After you spammed in every condition thread, you started your own thread with zero content. congrats.

Most problems with the “condition meta” or “condition burst” are the players themselves, that do not understand how conditions work. And if I would say, you should write down some examples, I could bet, there will be the same, wrong assumptions against conditions like in every thread.
conditions need only one stat, conditions cant be dodged, conditions deal more damage then direct damage, …

So you want the scepter to spam vulnerability to increase his direct damage? Because your suggestion is no condition weapon any more and no power weapon either.

In the end, with all your changes, the necromance (the master of conditions) will only be able to spam vulnerability and poison. In the end you will be able to deal probably 500DPS with a condition build. And most of this will be direct damage

You know that his changes to scepter will make necros coni builds nonviable?

Or do you think someone would like to play a condi build that is capable to stack max. 1 bleed, max. 1 torment and tons vulnerability (which is useless for condition builds). Okey the chain will get an increased direct damage part, but it is a condi weapon, so who needs that damage?

And in the end the condition necro will be able to stack something like:
1 bleed
3 torment
5 vulnerability
And if there is an other player hitting your foe, you probably can also reduce the bleed and torment by 1 and add more vulnerability. Sounds scary for a condi build, doesn’kitten Would someone even use a cleanse for those few conditions?

whyme.3281:

GameMode
Overall, weapon suggestion

Proposal Overview
change Longbow to AoE-control ranged weapon
introduce rifle as ranged single-target weapon
change axe (mainhand) to melee (or <=600 range) condition weapon
….

Yes please

@Boonprot.6274:

This condition skills have no animations, only rely on one stat, … was all discussed several times. I am tired of telling it over and over again, that this is all wrong.

All the strong skills are telegraphed, for the rest you still have a lot of time to cleanse the conditions, before they apply their whole damage. An advantage no power build will give you.

BlackBeard.2873:

It is not the same, actually, those procs are a guaranteed hit on some things, so there isn’t really RNG. If they aren’t applied immediately, application will happen half a second later because they don’t go on CD if they “miss”.

Also, this makes condition builds able to “burst” despite playing a DOT build that is build incredibly defensive. You just condi-burst then kite.

It is exactly the same mechanic, you crit and deal more damage. If this damage is a extra Dot or a direct damage burst doesn’t matter!

And yes there is RNG involved:
You have to land a crit (crit chance) and the related source (sigil, trait) has to proc as well.

BlackBeard.2873:

Finally, when comparing condi-builds to power builds, we can rely on empirical evidence more than any number crunching as there will always be aspects left out. Empirical evidence (and a large body of it) suggests that low-risk condi-tanks are FAR superior to high-risk burst/power builds in roaming as that see the majority of success.

Yes Number crunching can’t calculate everything, especially not the fact, that people are not willing to learn how to play against a condition spec. I hear it every time, “you can’t do anything against it, not even dodge/block works”. And that is totally wrong. Just because the old conditions are still ticking doesn’t mean there was no effect.

And this misinformation is present in the whole community. So I am not sure how much your empirical evidence is worth. Math doesn’t lie, humans do.

I don’t want to say that everything with conditions is fine in the current state (to be honest GW2 is far a way from being fine). And there are some design flaws involved since launch. But condition damage as mechanic isn’t the problem (only in PvE with the stack limit).

• Toughness for instance shouldn’t be the first defensive stat on any condi armor. Vitality would be enough.
• Stack Limit: This thing has to go. It limits condition builds in so many ways. What would people say if there would be a cap on direct damage of 5k DPS?
• Ranger’s Spirits: They shouldn’t get such a huge proc chance on hit not even on crit without ICD
• Condition immunity skills/traits: looking at diamond skin this is kittening OP. Put in some heal from water and you won’t die to a condi build
• Codi duration should be a stat on gear and not on runes

Probably i forgot one thing or another, but those things don’t make condis OP.

All those extra procs are the same as critical hits in a power build.

You land a crit and deal extra damage in a power build it is 50% + crit damage in a condition build it is an extra condition * duration (because direct damage would be useless, because you don’t have any power).

Are you able to tell which skill in a power build will deal a crit and dodge exactly that skill? No. So why should that be possible versus conditions?

which ones cant be dodged?

WhiteRose.6934:

-Anti-Condi duration isn’t a stat you can build for like Toughness is to counter damage.

It is a stat, that is build through runes, traits and skills. I wouldn’t mind, if it would be a armor stat, but then you lose other stats. If this would be implemented as armor stat, it should a) not be mixed with toughness and b) be hard capped so you can’t build for complete condition immunity.

WhiteRose.6934:

-Immunity works against everything.

And?

WhiteRose.6934:

-Condi cleanse is viable (obviously) however in contrast conditions are much easier to apply than they are to cleanse as the fight goes on.

Are you capable to prevent every direct damage with any build? No!
So why should this be possible against condition builds?

You got hit, so you receive damage. For direct damage this is normal, conditions are some kind of evil and there it is getting OP, if you get even hit by the enemy.

WhiteRose.6934:

-Blind/block/evade all work against attacks, while you’re probably taking damage from conditions already on you. Whereas in contrast you dodge a power attack and you’ve just diminished your foes dps completely. As a condi user if you dodge my attacks I’m still keeping dps up time while you roll around like a fool.

The damage dealt to you while blocking/didging is the damage, from attacks you received previous. A direct damage attack would have dealt this damage instant, conditions start to tick beginning from their application.
You do not dodge the conditions already applied to you, you dodge the new ones, that would be applied to you. Just like you would do it vs direct damage.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

This “Boon” would not increase in duration based on Boon duration and would have low access to it, say from a defensive skill in the 60-75second cool down range. So it wouldn’t be spammable or anything either.

Used within a Zerk and Game over for any condition class. Isnt it enough that conditions are cleansed within a zerk to much?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The send the conditions back at target would be there to punish those that mindlessly bash buttons thinking “More conditions, i need more conditions” rather than using them at the right time.

Ever heard of Confusion and Retalation?
Getting damage for using a skill -> punish mindless button bashing. Doesn’kitten

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Please, i have been hit for 16k Backstabs before, so i know Thief isn’t fine. However if you go zerker expect to die. It is that simple. What defense do you have against that? Toughness as well as weapon and/or utility skills

what do you have to protect yourself against condition spamming?

What defense do you have against condis?
Dodge, block, blind, heals, invulnerability, … Sounds familiar? Because it is the same that counters direct damage.
The only difference is that you don’t have toughness and protection but instead you have cleanses and -duration to counter conditions.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It takes next to NO skill to press a few buttons and get 5-8+ conditions on a target and then proceed to auto attack that person while they are trying to remove said conditions which then gives them new conditions.

Same for direct damage. Oh no that needs much more skill to press the same buttons

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Conditions SHOULD be about using them at the RIGHT time to great effect, not spamming them until the person you are fighting dies because they can’t out cleanse all the conditions that you spam them with.

Damaging conditions are just an other form of damage. Is there a way to negate all the direct damage? No, so why do you want that for conditions?

Dynnen.6405:

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

They will probaly deal 5k DPS as well, because of the condition cap and the fact, that you have to apply avery condition on your target to get to those 5k DPS.

So please show us your math, in which a condi build is capable to come close to the 5k DPS.

you know that retaliation works against condition damage as well? Every condition attack is coupled with a small direct damage part. Retaliation does proc on this small damage part and deals the same damage to the condi player as it would to a direct damage player, because it uses its owners stats to calculate the damage.

The only advantage of conditions is that there are no multiple hit attacks, like 100b, that would proc several times.

Just do the math and stop crying, without proving your point.

In general condition damage isn’t stronger then direct damage. There are one or two builds that are broken at the moment but those we have with direct damage as well. Just because people don’t use cleanses, use their heals to late, don’t dodge “conditions” and think they have to use a sword in every power build isn’t the fault of condition damage.

On a Terrormancer with PvP Rabid gear, those On-crit-effects increase your DPS by about 25%. (I didn’t include any direct damage from attacks nor the chances that attacks miss/get blocked)

BUT with the same stats (45% crit chance * 1,7) a power build will get the same damage increase from the critical damage. With critdamage a power build would profit even more.

Oh and if i take other gear, beacuse conditions only need one stat it is getting even worth. So why dont you compare on-crit-effects with crits?

poison and burn stack in duration (or are there any numbers in the corner of poison?)
Bleed, confusion and torment stack in quantity (there are those small numbers)

Just tested this with a guildy and I have to say, the number of hits and the damage does not represent what was dealt to him. Tried it with several skills and sometimes the number of hits got multiplied, sometimes not.

For example dhuumfire:
[build was with 0 condi damage 4% crit chance and traits were dhuumfire only. He was ele with -20% condi duration]

• It procced 2 times for 2,2s. (—> 4 hits with 330 damage each = 1320 damage)

Death screen said:

• he got hit 8 times for ~2,6k damage. So the damage per hit was correct but not the number of hits and the overall damage.

Blood is power made some really strange things:

• He got hit 10 times -> death screen said 23 hits (which is totally strange)
• 3 times 24s blood is power (2 bleeds) was applied -> death screen said 48 hits
  So sometimes the number of hits was multiplied by 2 or even more BUT the damage per tick was from all bleeds together!

My conclusion those numbers shown in the death screen are worthless, because they are bugged. If you do not trust me check it out yourself.

Carighan.6758:

I would love a visual indicator. Simply recoloring the portion of the health pool which would be lost by the current DoTs if nothing changes would be awesome. Likewise, show part which will heal while a heal is casting.

There is no indicator that tells you how many damage a direct damage burst will deal to you, before the hit lands. There are probably some skill animations that tell you that there will be a huge burst, but that counts for conditions as well. For conditions there is, in addition to the animations, a bar full of debuffs that show how many conditions are applied to you. If there is a huge amount of conditions stacked on you, it is very certain that they will kill you if you do not cleanse them. Do you really need more information?

No one is crying about this “problem” with direct damage even if they are capable of (nearly) one shot you. But if the topic is condition related people just get crazy and want some sort of easy mode.

Spicyhash.7605:

Condition damage will continue to be over the top until weapon auto attacks are no longer able to apply conditions.

Including:
Ele scepter
Warrior sword
Necro scepter

Basically, anything where 66% or more of the chain applies a condition. ranger shortbow is fine because it is situation (behind/sides) and mesmer staff is fine because it’s so slow and the conditions have a short duration.

If a warrior didn’t apply bleeds on almost every hit with sword, you wouldn’t be melting from 25 stacks of bleeding as often. If necro scepter atk chain only applied a condition on 1/3 attacks but with higher stacks OR longer duration, it would be much better. other than that, the application of conditions is not really that bad.

tldr: remove conditions or greatly reduce/rework conditions on auto attacks

Wouldn’t that be unbalanced? Direct damage autos will still deal high damage and they will still scale with their power/crits. So why nerf conditions only here?

Some times I think people just don’t get, that condition damage is just an other form of damage. Nothing more and nothing less.

Cynz.9437:

My problem is not how much dmg condi does (it is high but so is direct dmg). The issues with condis is:

- condis often are applied via AA or some aoe, so dodging it is often impossible No. Do I have to write more?
- condi spells usually have pretty bad readable animations those spells with lots of conditions have good animations (signed of spite, epedemic, …), for the rest you can use cleanses
- condis have controll effects, direct dmg has pressure only usually Warrior GS #4 (+ gap closer), Hammer (lots of CC), Thief Dagger #4, Guard GS #3, #5 … Condition weapons usually don’t have more
- condis ignore toughness and they ignore damage multipliers as well
- condis stay on you even if your enemy is dead Direct damage would have been allready applied before the enemy is dead
- for condis to work you need only 1 stats so you can invest into other, for direct dmg builds to do comparable dmg you need to invest all 3 stats for dmg leaving no room for survival stats Most Condi builds need 3 stats for their damage (some don’t need precision for extra procs). And Most of the time you need some defense, because you deal your damage slower. The only thing that is missing is a zerker equivalent for condi builds
- condi duration is stackable so you have stupid crap like 15 sec immobs or very long fears that usually end up with death of the target…. stuns and dazes (usually come with direct dmg spells) don’t stack though. Is this the fault of conditions in general?

But tbh, making suggestions is pointless. There been suggestions for many issues in this game and it was completely ignored. Devs keep add stuff that nobody wants so w/e.

@poster after me: can’t use it in pvp. Nice try. But there you don’t have pizza either

comments are edited above

You have several multipliers that allow you to “cut through” your opponents armor that do not work on conditions. And most of them are permanent (+10% damage with sword, …)

Are you really comparing a long CD burst skill with multiple autos to say conditions are stronger and that this single attack can be dodged? Now I have seen everything.

oZii.2864:

A large part of your damage is from auto attacks in a condition build and usually ranged.

There really is no consequence in missing with a auto attack because it has no cooldown and short cast time. Take a terrormancer who can put alot of pressure on you just from scepter auto attacks also proccing dhuumfire while at range.

Really how many melee condition builds do you see out there? S/S LB warriors are the only ones that come to my mind as truly melee with application.

If you compare all skills #2 to #5 they have comparable CD and if you can assume that those skills are equally being used, you will end up with the result, that power builds will also use autos most of the time, just like condition builds do.

And if your problem is the fact, that most condibuilds use ranged weapons, no one said direct damage has to be melee.

PS: Terrormancer usually dont use auto attacks. Usually they use all sort of fear skills to kill you

oZii.2864:

Applying your damage is easier with a condition build then a direct damage build since there is only one way to stop the damage once it’s applied and that’s through cleansing.

What is that for an argument?
You got hit and still can counter it makes condition more powerful then direct damage, where you get hit and you eat all that damage. There is no button that heals you for the direct damage you received during the last 5 seconds (That’s what cleanses theoretically do).

Conditions have the same way of preventing the damage as direct damage (dodge, block, blind, stealth, stuns, …) There are skills that make you immune to damage (some for conditions/direct damage only and some for both). Just because the conditions continue to tick, does not mean that those things have no effect. The damage you may receive during a dodge role was applied earlier and if you would stop that as well it would be like a heal to previous dealt direct damage (same as above).

gesho why aren’t you creating a necro yourself and try to kill people with DS #1 only? Then you will see how OP it really is. The cool thing in GW2 is that you don’t need to level him for PvP.

Good luck

Only if every other damage multiplier will effect condition damage as well.

Mbelch.9028:

If eles and mesmers get it, I’ll be happy.

You mean this eles, that get completely imune to Conditions with diamond skin and a little bit of heal? Why would they need this?

Why should this thread not belong to this subforum?

The TO says, that Anet should ..

• increase the frequency in which balance updates are applied to the game
• probably think about undo some changes instead of patching the game around them (dhuumfire and others)
• balance should be started at the roots (game mechanics), not at the leafs (meta builds)
  …

I don’t see why this should not be discussed here?
Probably some of the statements above are just assumptions, .. so what?
What the TO describes is how the players see their game/development.

But unfortunately no one is reading this and nothing will change.

[PvX] Changes on the class mechanic should not be for one specific mode

Proposal Overview
Pet changes (stat scaling, auto-attacks, survivability)

Goal of Proposal
making pets more viable through all game modes

Proposal Functionality

• Pets strength will now change depending on the players build
  The pets of the ranger should scale with their masters stats, making balancing different ranger builds possible, because pets won’t push in a different direction.
  Therefore every pet gets defined major and minor stats, that scale differently with the owners stats. Let’s say 70% and 30%.

Some examples:
cats: major (Power, precision) minor (vitality, toughness)
bears: major (tougness, power) minor (vitality, precsion)
spiders: major (condition damage, duration), minor (precision, vitality)

• Melee pets range increased or attack while moving
  Increasing their range to 250 or let them attack while moving would make them more helpful in combat.

• Pets get reduced damage from AoE or dodge attacks
  Allowing the pet to automatically dodge every few seconds and/or reduce the damage taken from AoE would increase their survivability a lot.

Associated Risks

• Some Pets won’t be viable in certain builds, because they benefit from other stats (I think that’s ok)
• Pets could be to strong, if they hit reliable
• AoE damage reduction could be OP in 1vs1 fights
• Base-stats of the pets needs to be readjusted

Probably the minimum is 5, but is goes most of the time in regions 10+
probably Pets count here as well.

Why 2? You can do it with 1. But is it about dodging or abusing guardians? I thought you had written that you could have dodge everything, not tank it. You can tank almost every boss with right trait and gear (clerics, etc) but we already knew it.

probably dodge was the wrong word here, but you can melee them and you don’t need tanky stats for this

Who cares if you get hit, you will survive it.

But then we have condies > power. So what exactly is the difference? Do you want to change it just for the sake of it?

Where is the problem here? Because zerker gear wouldn’t be #1 anymore?

This does not mean, power builds are useless and can’t beat that boss. It just won’t be the easy way anymore.

Condition damage builds usually have low skill cap due to tankiness, reducing damage through condies (chill, weakness, cripple) and usually being ranged playstyle. In the meantime, power builds usually need to go up closer to enemy and are glassier.

No one wants these tankiness, it is just there by design. There is no Condidamage, duration precision set available. Do you need less skill there for? No.

Your build is determined by traits, weapon choice, traits choice and utilities choice. You gear puts you on defense-offense scale.

If it were up to me, I’d delete every gear (stats). It just binds you to one playstyle (especially with ascended) and make so that your entire build is encompassed by traits. But since we cannot have nice things we have to deal with what we have. This game was advertised with the active combat in mind, condition damage builds are antithesis of it.

Why are conditions against active combat?

• You have to hit your target: Y
• You can dodge conditions: Y
• You can Block conditions: Y
• You can cast while moving: Y

haviz.1340:

unleashed.8679:

The problem of conditions isn’t the damage alone:

• You can’t use CC, because of defiant and unshakable:
  Introduce a “rage-mode” for every boss, if he gets too many hard CC within too short time (stunlock), the boss get buffed with stability, swiftness and fury/might.

You can use CC, you just have to coordinate it. Thoughtless spamming of CC should never work.

You have to fight through 7 or more stacks of defiant to land one single hard CC. All of them have high CDs. So even with coordination it is nearly impossible to time those CCs (interrupts).

Spamming CC should not work, but here would the “rage-mode” come into play.
If the party uses CC to much, the boss gets immune to it and much stronger. So you have to think, what you are doing. I probably should mention that the stability can’t be removed (probably should call it CC immunity).

haviz.1340:

• There is no need to kite bosses in current design:
  Kite them to position X and they get damaged (exception: dredge fractal)
• There is no need to kite enemies, because you can dodge every single attack of bosses

I’d like to see people that claim this to fight mossman or archdiviner at high scales. Dodge every single attack of them without kiting and I’ll applaud you. You keep using hyperboles and that’s not a thing you’d want to use in a serious discussion.

Put two hammer guards in front of the mossman with perma-protection and you can kill him without kiting (at least before last fractal patch, didn’t test it afterwards).

haviz.1340:

• There are no bosses with high toughness:
  “Difficulty” of bosses is made due to vitality (life sponge) and not toughness. There is not a single boss with high toughness, so conditions would deal more damage then power builds (due to the effect, that they ignore armor).

How would toughness not be a life sponge? Instead of promoting direct damage, you’d promote condition damage which arguably is much easier to play. Build diversity achieved by the cost of lowering already low skill cap isn’t something I would like to see.

It would crate content, in which zerker gear didn’t shine. Something different to current meta. Lets say power damage is reduced by factor 10. You would love to bring a condition class with you.

Btw, why do you think it needs more skill to play direct damage? You just have to hit the enemy, no matter what kind of damage you do.

haviz.1340:

Heck, if everyone wants build diversity so much, anet should also buff AI specs. I’m sure pvp-ers would appreciate that.

If no one wants build diversity, why not delete every armor except of berserker ones?
And delete every condition skill, … ?
They are in the game, so why should they be ignored/under powered in PvE?

Condition Builds rely on 3+ stats (well, most of them do)
Crit damage = condi duration (increase damage dealt by x%)
Crti chance = crit chance (apply additional conditions from traits/sigils)
Additionally Condition builds need a bit more defense because their damage is lower and building up (DoT)

So in theory those stats are there, BUT:
- No one uses duration in PvP because of the amount of cleanse available. Most of the time those extra seconds are wasted, because they won’t apply their damage. And duration is limited in PvP as well.
- In PvE the extra conditions from sigils/traits are wasted, because most of the time the Stacks are full anyways. Throwing more conditions at an enemy is wasted, because they wont apply their damage.

I think your idea is just some kind of a hot-fix (easy to apply, but not the best solution). To make conditions viable in PvE there needs to be done a complete redesign.

The problem of conditions isn’t the damage alone:

• You can’t use CC, because of defiant and unshakable:
  Introduce a “rage-mode” for every boss, if he gets too many hard CC within too short time (stunlock), the boss get buffed with stability, swiftness and fury/might.
• There is no need to kite bosses in current design:
  Kite them to position X and they get damaged (exception: dredge fractal)
• There is no need to kite enemies, because you can dodge every single attack of bosses
• There are no bosses with high toughness:
  “Difficulty” of bosses is made due to vitality (life sponge) and not toughness. There is not a single boss with high toughness, so conditions would deal more damage then power builds (due to the effect, that they ignore armor).

I could go on with this, but everything was writing in this thread over a year ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Endgame-PvE-Difficulty-comes-down-to-dodging/first

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Either A, you’re lying to us about how long it took (most likely, since the most possible bleed ticks in 2 seconds is 75, and that’s if you suddenly had 25 stacks applied all within 1 second, yet you’re showing 83 ticks) or B, you’re lying to us about how many opponents you had (and how long it took)

no 83 bleed ticks = 83 sec of bleed. It doesn’t matter if he had 25 or 1 bleed, both counts as 1 damage tick in that statistic. So the maximum in 2 sec is 3 ticks.

See this post, if it would count every single bleed stack, he would get >600 damage per bleed there:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/why-condition-damage-is-broken/page/2#post3651478

you are right, but that doesn’t make sense, …

The build is relative clear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYmCp7x7JEoHAAAAiRKImghSBAkOA-TsAAzCpIKS9l7LTRyvsfNCYtwUAA (2)

From the terror damage, he was running around with ~2.000 (1) condition damage. Max. value from armor is 1.200 so the rest came from 25 might stacks.

So you run into a necro with full might stacks, had aegis and stability on yourself. These got corrupted (1,6*(2s+3s) = 8s burn) and you got your first fear, then he placed staff 5 and used DS 2 and 5. For all those bleeds, the necro had to hit you multiple times and used blood is power.

(1) I used this calculation: 2 + (4,5 * level) + (0,3 * condi damage) from german wiki
english wiki said its 0,4 * condi damage what leads to ~2.600 condi damage (think that’s wrong)
(2) Amulet could be Carrio, runes could be 6*necromancers, too.

I would like to know which build did that damage in 3sec?

I am asking, because it is impossible to deal that much conditions in such a short time
for a single necro.

• dhuumfire will max. last 3s not 8s . Even with corrupting aegis you will only get 7,5s and I doubt that there is a +10% burn duration, just for that scenario.
• blood is power is the longest bleed with max. 60s duration, not 83s

But tbh if you cant cleanse a single bleed within 83s it is your fault.

And look at warriors sword if you want to cry about AA. Necros scepter damage is decent.

Could be the same topic i think:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/All-Core-mechanics-of-the-game/first#post3642097

JETWING.2759:

Bombsaway.7198:

Condition damage should be higher POTENTIAL damage given it is a. Over Time and b. Likely to be Cleansed.

For a warrior, condition damage should be far less likely to be cleansed than for other classes. It is your weakness (or should be).

Just some them

All those conditions are not from one skill, that necro had to hit you very often to apply that much conditions. For the fear he had to hit you at least with 5 skills to apply 10s fear. The fight had to be longer then 40s (because otherwise there wouldn’t be 12s burning) or the 46 hits of bleed. And he used corruption to get the confusion on you and probably one more fear.

Oh and the DPS was 1,2k (plus direct damage)

Please do the math and you will see, that you are wrong, with your assumptions.

Carighan.6758:

To that end, cut most condition’s durations, remove +condiduration except for the traitline which gets cut down to 15% (also remove the food which gives -40% incoming duration), check CDs to make sure they have large intervals, and AE conditions always 2x-3x as much.

With that change, every condition with 6sec or less wont change at all (6*1,15 = 6,9). And for the rest, who will spend 30 trait-points for 1 more second?
And if you want t cut down all condition durations, i think there wont be any condition left with 7sec. base duration.