Guild Wars 2

You have proposed solution for a single time-zone. This is a global game played on servers in two regions which cover all time-zones. Unless there are more regions to cover more time-zones for the current scoring method your solution becomes a big problem.

However If the scoring method was broken up by time-zones, then winners could be determined by time-zones and not by a combined servers total across all timezones. In the end we can talk till the cows come home, nothing is going to change.

kelman.9451:

GvG is only for a certain amount of players, not everyone cares about GvG

You’re right, Just like PvP.

DevonCarver.5370:

My personal observation is that the momentum you gain from even a small period of having more people online is so large that it can’t be overcome. Which makes me think we need to be doing more to slow that momentum.

Hi Devon,

You are actually looking at the same problem just from a different angle. A small momentum you mention can also be derived by having a timezone advantage, ie. more 24/7 coverage.

The root cause has the same effect, a lead is built that can only be countered by finding a timezone gap to either stack more against your opposition or not having any opposition.

Possible Solution:
- Split up a week long battle into a number of smaller matches/sets
– You could have timezone battles
– Weekend Winners
– Daily Winners
– Top Kills
– Top Objectives Captured – Daily/Timeblock (8-12)
– Top Objectives Defended – Daily
– Top Ruins holder

Just like your achievements, servers could chose which ones that are suited to and gain points which lead up to a total score

What you have done here is negate the zerg somewhat, and still promote server and team play.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Cake.4920:

Primetime is dependent on the region, not your schedule. You can’t debate this.

Nighttime players already score 2-5x the points per manhour, so imposing a score reduction on them is fair.

My night time is your day time, I think its a great idea to impose a score reduction on “them”, oh wait there are other timezones in the world? woah

I just did up a quick predictor based on assumptions in this thread and results thus far

Assumptions:
- Last round result will be the same as round 1
- JQ will win all its other matches
- SOR will beat BG in all its 1v1 matches as per current round results

I have highlighted in yellow rounds which “could” be different for JQ if this threads assumptions are wrong.

Let me know if I missed anything and I will update.

Hi,

Devan asked us to post in this via another thread. The lag issue is absolutely serious for many of us in the WvW league. Match 1 is our most critical match-up and lag is affecting people ability to play this game, We have half our 50 man guild not logging on till this is fixed, we have another large guild stop playing all together until this has stopped and yet another 100 man guild transfer to another server during the wvw league because of how bad this is, again seriously affecting us. All attributed to server side lag.

It is killing our guild and the game for many. Please see if there is anything you can do in the interim to address this??

Hi There,

Thanks for the mention guys! Yes [TKG] is on JQ.

We are looking for more like minded people to join us. Respect to the other OCX guilds here.

See our recruitment post for more information:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/The-Kelly-Gang-TKG-JQ-Oceanic-SEA/first#content

MagiKarp.8201:

Kennet’s curse buddy, we’ll never lose to you.

Chapman or no Chapman.

Cats are imploding, hawks are stacked, you can always bandwagon to the Dockers.

If you really want to keep the buff just make it apply to the lowest placed server. Yep its a catchup tool.

DevonCarver.5370:

Radiology.3597:

That’s because there is no incentive to defend. You get NOTHING to defend except spare change-like wxp and karma. There literally is no reason to defend, there is more reason to let the ball drop and recap. And for a game where keeping the points you have is equally as important as gaining points from other sources, they sure do a bad job of rewarding the defense.

If you give incentive to defend, you will have the opportunity to kill something that isn’t programmed.

I said this in another thread, and I’ll repeat what I said here for clarity, the issue with rewarding defending currently is a problem with a way the content is built and how it determines participation. Until we solve that problem, we won’t be increasing the rewards for defending because it is far too easy to game the system. That is why escorting Dolyaks is not very rewarding. Once we do solve that, we will make big moves to incentivize defending so that people who are helping out, whether it be escorting yaks, or defending objectives will see more rewards for doing that.

Have a random guy walking the keeps which you have to click after a defend event is triggered to get participation credit

This stops people afk’ing and gaining reward, bots because he is walking around randomly.

Vena.8436:

vanzan.1250:

Will this new content be in or not for the start of the league??

The Borderlands launch on the 17th.

Thanks, where did you get that info?

Will this new content be in or not for the start of the league??

Will the 7 week league just consist of 7 weekly matches just like it is now

OR

Multiple point type events such as

- random daily matches with special win bonus
- hold an objective for x hours special bonus
- kill the most dolly’s over a day events
- cap the most points over x period
- kill the most players over x period
- catch the leader specials where chasing servers get points multipliers by taking the leaders stuff

Please be this creative!!!

Please add more ideas guys?

You said this update just missed out on the last patch, now that you have mentioned the new leagues starting on Oct 4th will the new patch be in by then?

OR did this announcement buy you 11 more weeks?

King Amadaeus.8619:

Jscull.2514:

King Amadaeus.8619:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d love to say you should be able to get everything ever from just playing WvW, but not only is that not going to happen, it’s not good for the game as a whole.

but honestly if you want to get all the things in the game, you have to play all the game. Branch out, I suspect you’ll enjoy it. And WvW will still be there when you want to play it.

Pfffffft, it is obvious you guys just do not understand many of the WvWers….Read all I need to read moving forward. Thank you sir for the info.

They understand you KA….they understand PvE is carebear land full of $$ spending customers who like sparkles in the air and balloons…

They know that if this game were to be made more competitive, #’s would decrease in wvw b/c zerg babies would cry they dont win as much anymore against “elitest pricks”. Meanwhile, even alot of zergers are bored lol. Nice model.

I just wish they would stop trying to make WvW’ers into PVE’ers, and sPVP’ers into WvW’ers, and PVE’ers into….Well whatever they are into.

I make fun of people that grinded legendary’s for the skin (same stats as an exotic), so really it makes no issues with me that EZNET does not want to reward WvW-only players. However I think that it is a joke that it is just another element that pulls people out of WvW to do things they really could care less to do otherwise. I mean for whatever reason people REALLY want that skin…Or they really want that ascended backpiece etc.

But don’t come in here and tell me to “branch out, that I would like it”, it is borderline slap in the face material. Kinda like me saying, “Hey mister developer, read some forum threads, you might learn what WvW’ers actually want”.

Yes I felt that slap too. Many of the core guilds in WvW have been around for over 15+ years, every new WvW type game we are there, that is what we live for and enjoy. Our enjoyment is in winning a battle and ensuring we do it in the most efficient way. Many of us moved servers because our previous servers were too focused on PVE, we lose maps and objectives when and event is on and masses go and do an event. Yes we care about our WvW maps more.

Yes many of us would just pay with real money to have things available quickly, I sure many of us would pay for an expansion map or maps to be developed on-going. Test the wvw community sometime, you maybe surprised.

But my question is why are we telling you this Devon? You should know?

King Amadaeus.8619:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d love to say you should be able to get everything ever from just playing WvW, but not only is that not going to happen, it’s not good for the game as a whole.

but honestly if you want to get all the things in the game, you have to play all the game. Branch out, I suspect you’ll enjoy it. And WvW will still be there when you want to play it.

Pfffffft, it is obvious you guys just do not understand many of the WvWers….Read all I need to read moving forward. Thank you sir for the info.

Have to agree here. If there was no wvw, many of us would not be playing GW2. We are players of a particular genre and we don’t choose to dislike pve, but fact is many of us do. Don’t try and push a square into a circle, it’s not going to happen.

Have you considered stamina instead of compote? Stamina gives you 2 dodge rolls and aoe heal which is a better heal than compote and more group friendly.

zeeZ.5713:

Code: https://github.com/zeeZ/gw2-location
Map: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6664141/gw2/map.html
“Binaries”: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6664141/gw2/location_dist.zip

Right now it’s a very basic implementation and due to lack of free time won’t move at much speed, but I welcome any pull requests.

It consists of three things:
location_sender uses the MumbleLink data GW2 provides and based on an API call translates your map coordinates to world coordinates, then opens a WebSocket to location_distributor and continually sends it your position

location_distributor takes that data, does a minimal amount of sanity checking, puts it into a big list and provides a second WebSocket which the map can connect to, to perpetually receive a list of players and their location

map… well, is a basic map to show that data. Right now it doesn’t allow to change address and key on the fly, so you’d have to download and change it if you want to mess with different servers and keys.

Both location_sender and map provide a key on connect to allow for grouping. The map will only receive location data for players that have provided the same key.

You can sort of demo it by running location_sender.{exe/py} local.ctrl-alt-chainsaw.net
With both sender and map not providing a key I sort of consider that a public group :P

Looks great, I think from a WvW perspective being able to see our guild and what they are doing is invaluable.

What would be great is if everyone could see green dots like those of your allies and a blue dot for the leader of your raid.

Do I run location distributor on my server forward the ports add a key to it and then host the webpage with the distributor address and key for it to work like this?

Aza.2105:

Mace of Justice is dope.

Its actually quite amazing if you have the right wvw build…

MagiKarp.8201:

Sorry if this feels this way, but what BG is doing isn’t about crushing you, its about maintaining momentum and morale, MERC is showing up every night as usual even though we know we do not have to, this is to not get sloppy and keep our A game waiting for the return of the Sanctum of Rallverywhere.

The problem is if you maintain too much momentum and morale it has the opposite effect on the other servers, each day we have less and less wanting to play and today we cant get anyone into wvw.

I will still be there with a few people so your 50 can maintain momentum on me

Az z.2746:

JonPeters, the problem is not the matchmaking, but the score system itself. Fix the scoring system so that the server with most coverage doesn’t automatically win.

I agree that score needs to be addressed too, I have mentioned a suggestion in previous thread that after you get more data you might consider applying a handicap. (all servers are no equal so its not a scratch game) By doing so camps, towers and keeps are worth more based on the numbers available by a particular server at a particular time.

As with most handicap leagues you need to establish a baseline by playing everyone first and then it gets adjusted throughout the season.

Forzani.2584:

vanzan.1250:

Forzani.2584:

Props to Anet for trying to liven things up. The problem is, nothing they do can overcome human nature.

Any system that tries to matchup servers, that in theory are similar in strength, will eventually fail. Any system relies on the potential of a particular server. Once that server faces any kind of adversity, human nature kicks in and the fairweathers pack their sacks. Either they log out or scamper to pve. The server that is actually having some success in the matchup not only keeps their original WvW population, they also add the bandwagoners.

So a potential fairly even matchup turns into a blowout. I don’t see any solution that can overcome that obstacle.

A handicap based on realtime population will resolve this. At the moment we are scratch but if camps, towers and keeps were worth different rates based on the actual population this would mean that things could stay fairly equal, maybe this is where they will head but you need data by playing everyone in your league to come up with the handicap.

Tad hard to understand what you are saying but I will give it a try.

So if populations are equal at a particular time of the day. A supply camp is worth say 1000 points….but if server B only has say 60% of the population at a particular time of day, then that supply camp could be worth say 1400 points ?

A lot of variables would be needed to be fine tuned for something like this to work. Does Anet have the ability to apply minute to minute real time changes for each server in a matchup ?

Along those lines yes. Night capping and over-stacking would disappear because you just have to field enough to just match the tick of the stacked time-zone. You would need minimum limits. You couldn’t win a tick with 3 guys running around capping camps worth 100 each

- but we are getting off topic, it was just an idea.

JaredKincade.9761:

What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.

So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.

Projected ratings for next week are:

SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830

The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.

Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).

What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.

Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.

All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.

Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.

I like your analysis, I never thought of ratings being used as a handicap but you could be onto something here.

Forzani.2584:

Props to Anet for trying to liven things up. The problem is, nothing they do can overcome human nature.

Any system that tries to matchup servers, that in theory are similar in strength, will eventually fail. Any system relies on the potential of a particular server. Once that server faces any kind of adversity, human nature kicks in and the fairweathers pack their sacks. Either they log out or scamper to pve. The server that is actually having some success in the matchup not only keeps their original WvW population, they also add the bandwagoners.

So a potential fairly even matchup turns into a blowout. I don’t see any solution that can overcome that obstacle.

A handicap based on realtime population will resolve this. At the moment we are scratch but if camps, towers and keeps were worth different rates based on the actual population this would mean that things could stay fairly equal, maybe this is where they will head but you need data by playing everyone in your league to come up with the handicap.

Shifty.7104:

Well , sigh just sigh.

I had lots of confidence in the changes you had made to the game arenanet until now, this is simply going to be zerg fest rolling over under prepared servers that neither have the coverage or population to deal with it, untill it becomes zergs vs doors.

Incredibly bad move.

Most people are against change, most don’t change because they feel nothing will change and they maybe right, but with change there is always the chance that you will have a different outcome and that is the reason we play this game.

Sport leagues around the world have a very similar.

You have super teams with all the money who lead the competition and teams who make up the places. In the end we love and watch sports because of the variety and even the chance of an upset. Those teams also work on transfers and great signings to put their team in the spotlight.

The dynamic could lead to different strategies and play styles happening.

- Can weaker server work extra hard to pull off that super win
- Could guilds be sponsored by other servers to transfer to weaker match-ups to help pull on a great win.

Who will come up with the most original strategy?

oldephartte.4369:

Simple solution. Put a cap on the number of non-NA players allowed on any one NA server based on a +/- percentage of the total number of non-NA players on NA servers with the objective of fairly balancing the the population of non-NA players across all the NA servers to make game play more competitive 7/24.

News Just In: Developers have taken on this suggestion but have decided to cap NA instead.

What? Don’t like being marginalised? But the world revolves around NA!

Don’t like it, well don’t do it. Everyone has a right to play without restrictions.

scootshoot.6583:

Cerialkilla.3571:

scootshoot.6583:

uberkingkong.8041:

Looks like things are back to normal, after 3 or 4 days JQ will just alt xp farm. SoR and BG aren’t T1 material.

Wheres all the competition at?

JQ Asian timezone carries that server, nothing more nothing less.

Asia carries JQ, so NA prime carries sor. I don’t see the point. NA prime its a BG and sor exclusive against jq lately anyways, I mean you’ve seen the keep pictures lately they coordinate one attacks one wall one the other and refuse to cross paths. It isn’t like you guys don’t have your own tactics to do well in the prime.

heh, you do realize these are still NORTH AMERICAN SERVERS, right? I shouldn’t have to explain any further, lol

What are you trying to say? Other countries cannot play on YOUR servers?

Setting high expectations and under delivering only can go so far. People have been waiting 7 months and all you give them is more of the same.

taek.9386:

Robot Chocken.7012:

I think if the guilds are going to transfer Kaineng would have been a better choice for them.

No way why don’t JQ guilds do it??? JQ is pretty much the reason for guilds moving due to how stacked your coverage is…

And what was the reason JQ stacked? Its just a recurring theme here. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again don’t expect the result to be different.

Ahmrill.7512:

1) Implement a Raid grouping system or something similiar to the “Warband” system used in Warhammer online. Grouping system for 20-25 people showing dots, health bars, custom chat channel, call target and waypoint marking.

2) Improve the commander and squad system using feedback from the users on these forums so it can be effectively used for more than 20-25 people for large scale grouping.

3) Allow people to exchange/sell Commander Tomes back to the NPC for 100gp if they choose to once the changes are made.

This..

It was simple

You start with a party when it filled up to 6 people typed /warbandconvert and 24 slots would open up

/warbandallianceonly
/warbandguildonly

Set permissions for guilds or alliance member to join you.

You could see all your members dots on the map.

wish.3102:

Bavragor.1043:

Exactly, this conversation is just silly.

Yes people say the date, month and year differently but if people had an open mind rather than bashing the OP for not being American and not writing the date, month and year the same way American’s do then we would not have this situation.

These are American servers, which means you write dates the American way, or it’s the wrong way. If you don’t like that, then go play on an EU server, there’s lots of them out there for you.

So using your logic, American servers owned by a Korean company.

Guess you better start learning a new date format.

BrockMcCleery.9562:

oldephartte.4369:

The question needs to be asked, “Is JQ truly a North American server?”

Maybe WvW needs to be restricted to say 6:00 a.m. – midnight Pacific.

That’s 18 hours of potential game play and 6 hours to rest.

If this is inconvenient for players outside the North American time zones, then their own regional servers would be available.

This is actually the only viable solution. WvW should really be restricted to 16-18 hours of play, based US or EU sets of servers. It has its problems but I think that overall it would help make WvW better.

For instance, it would immediately make a number of servers much more competitive.

So essentially you are saying restrict it to when people are awake in your timezone and screw everyone else in the world because its not affecting you?

Well all I know is the MMO PvP community is probably one of the most vocal on the internet – so how do we get their attention how do we get our 200k voice heard over the 2m pve’ers?

Obviously what we are doing and writing here is not getting the attention so lets go to the social media and game media, how about developers of upcoming games and seeing how they will handle things like this?

Just some ideas to break the wall of silence..

In other areas of this forums Anet staff are responding right away to recent patches, they indicate if its working as intended or if they are looking into it or require more feedback, WvWvW gets a major change and the community is making comments and there is total silence.

Please any word is better than silence. Please consider us, people should not have to open threads pleading for Anet input.

A number of people in our guild have had the blank trading post problem since the last patch, has anything changed in the game since the last patch, it seems to be a common issue over the last 4 days.

I ran in Zerg and Small Man both had terrible results.

-Zerg, whole groups of the enemy were appearing and disapearing.
- People in our teams were disapearing,
- It looked as if we were outnumbered some of the time, I had to say look at the dots we have more people but then the enemy disapeared so we were not sure anymore
- We were chasing individuals and as they ran into the zerg they were culled

Small Group, ran to the middle island only to suddenly be surrounded by 30 people, we did not see them before just walked in one by one and suddenly they all appeared at once

I will attempt to fraps some of this as its not only happening to me but the general population.

Even if there were nametags and no models that would be better than what we have now.

SSD + GTX680

If your server was PvDoor or being rolled for 4 weeks whilst things stabalized what would you do?

- Suck it up and just do it. Sit in WvW doing nothing and getting bored
- Go do some PVE
- Do real world stuff
- Try out other games and betas

jkctmc.8754:

vanzan.1250:

This isn’t group vs group, but World vs World!!!

You knew the type of game you paid for, so quit complaining that they’re creating the massive war type atmosphere World vs World was meant to be. They created a group based player vs player atmosphere when they created sPvP.

Whilst I see your point its not entirely correct, Colin Johanson touched on this during his last interview:

WvW & Zerging – what are you guys working to get people away from zerging.
- Zerg is sort of the natural gameplay that is kind of evolved – find a commander and follow it. Comfort in numbers.
- Strategically, the best strat is to split into mini zergs and constantly harassing the map.

They are trying to move away from the almighty Zerg and will be introducing events in the future to break into mini-zergs (smaller groups).

Others comments about smaller group play are legitimate WvW playstyles and Anet agree. Dont just dismiss what you have today as what will be in the future.

We already have small group/solo play in WvW, and if they add more, I’ll welcome it. I run solo, taking camps, killing solos/duos going to reinforce a defense, and so on. There is plenty for us smaller groups, or solo players to do. But to harp on those who run in larger groups is childish, and will get us no where.

The best thing for any game, is choice. If you limit those choices, you’re setting the game up for failure. So instead of trying to break the zerg, and ruin those who choose that form of play, why not champion both?

Good response, I see your side and agree.

This isn’t group vs group, but World vs World!!!

You knew the type of game you paid for, so quit complaining that they’re creating the massive war type atmosphere World vs World was meant to be. They created a group based player vs player atmosphere when they created sPvP.

Whilst I see your point its not entirely correct, Colin Johanson touched on this during his last interview:

WvW & Zerging – what are you guys working to get people away from zerging.
- Zerg is sort of the natural gameplay that is kind of evolved – find a commander and follow it. Comfort in numbers.
- Strategically, the best strat is to split into mini zergs and constantly harassing the map.

They are trying to move away from the almighty Zerg and will be introducing events in the future to break into mini-zergs (smaller groups).

Others comments about smaller group play are legitimate WvW playstyles and Anet agree. Dont just dismiss what you have today as what will be in the future.

Causic.3798:

vanzan.1250:

Anet – your vision was to not have people run in big zergs and yet you have now addressed a problem to may encourage more people to run in zergs, have smaller groups being considered?

It is World vs. World. Think of it in terms of nation against nation. Armies win wars, not small scouting groups (though they do help a whole lot). If smaller groups were as effective in winning WvW maps as larger ones we would see more of them. That just isn’t the case. I’m glad they are thinking of the big picture (the armies, and the majority).

That is not very strategic, an army is made up of many divisions and many objectives. The current army runs together in a single group, multiple “scout groups of 10-15” as you call it will win hands down every time if organised and if they covered every objective. The army and the bigger picture according on anet are smaller groups!

I am only reiterating what Colin Johanson said in his recent interview:

WvW & Zerging – what are you guys working to get people away from zerging.

- Zerg is sort of the natural gameplay that is kind of evolved – find a commander and follow it. Comfort in numbers.
- Strategically, the best strat is to split into mini zergs and constantly harassing the map.

Now to keep this on topic, I reiterate will the changes proposed still keep true to the vision put out by Colin a few weeks ago if we cannot run as small groups

Eastevil.1534:

vanzan.1250:

Do you really have anyone who plays wvw? Not just on casually but playing in 4 – 6 hour blocks, it just feels at times that at times you are not quite up to date with how things are in wvw

Ignorant posts like this make me wonder. A dev team w/o atleast 1 person in WvW? Im sure some of us have tried to take down that figure with the “anet” tag.

You do realize that there have been a number of instances where the developers have been totally unaware of “features” people were using in WVW when everyone who regularly played WvW knew of this? I am asking this because changes and statements made of recent have been to address problems which were issues months ago, since then the population has found new and other innovative ways to “fool” the system and cause culling, if history is anything to go by, perhaps anet is unaware how these are being used or misued by the general population and how the new round of changes may affect this.

Anet – your vision was to not have people run in big zergs and yet you have now addressed a problem to may encourage more people to run in zergs, have smaller groups being considered?

In the last trial we could not see our own team mates in 10 v 30 fights!! Will this kill small scale all together?

You said the feedback was positive but everyone we played with in the t1 server either had lag or some kind or problem with it, where did you gather this feedback from?

Do you really have anyone who plays wvw? Not just on casually but playing in 4 – 6 hour blocks, it just feels at times that at times you are not quite up to date with how things are in wvw

Will this address groups who now put up multiple shadow refuge and mez invis lines and run through it as they engage in fights to create culling?

Just a vacation then?