Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

the point is, no rare or exotic represents progress towards a precursor if you are using the forge.

Yeah. For a player looking for a reliable way of obtaining a precursor you’re better off selling those weapons and paying someone else the premium to use the forge for you. The premiums on that these days are quite modest.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again, i was not saying it’s guaranteed. Are you understanding that? I commeted on bia post to clarify that he did not mean that everyone would need exactly 127 forges.

You can use statistics to calculate an average. The larger the sample size to calculate that, the better. If each attempt uses a fixes amount of ingredients, you can also express it in regards to those ingredients. Clovers have been estimated to take roughly 231 attempts on average to get 77. You can then break down the attempts into the four ingredients that you need.

Your issue is that you either don’t understand how statistics is used or you don’t understand that nobody has stated that players were gauranteed to get a precursors in X forges or using X exotics.

you dont understand what context means. If you are discussing collecting rares/exotics in the context of being a method of incremental gain towards getting precursors that isnt subject to price changes, then the fact that it isnt guaranteeded and the actual number of tries is unknown makes that theory worthless.

Ok lets be clear, are you or are you not saying that you believe collecting rares/exotics for the forge is a viable method of obtaining precursors in an incremental fashion?

if you are not then we have no disagreement

Context? Really? I’m sorry but you cannot justify that we were saying players were guaranteed a precursor after so many forges or exotics. Please try again.

Nust because something isn’t 100%, does not mean that it should just be disregarded. You may have the general idea of statistics in regards to this situation but you do not know how to apply it.

Its not about it being disregarded for not being 100%, its about it being disregarded for the issue at hand.
statistics are not predictions of short term events.
" Probability describes the long-term proportion with which a certain
outcome will occur in situations with short-term uncertainty"

notice, its long term, in the short term the outcome is always uncertain. 127 attempts in this case represents the short term odds of success for getting a precursor.

You should not advise people that rares/exotics represent any type of progress towards a legendary because each person is not a collection of cases, each person is few trials at in general.

to be clear, statistics and probabilities do not reduce, they are long term predictions based on large numbers.
the short term events are still unpredictable.

I do agree that overall, for many players, and on a macro level, a certain amount of rares/exotics are destroyed for each precursor on average in the MF.

Nobody was advising anybody doing anything. IT was only stated, that statistically, the chance to forge a pre is better now than at the start of the game and the average loot you need is easier to come by now. If you dont want to hassle with price inflation, forging your own precursor allows you to do that at the price of RNG involvement.

ok, so essentially you battle price increase, or you gamble. Problem is what caused this line of discussion was the desire for some stable, incremental progress towards a precursor. Gold does not provide that over a long period due to market forces, and gambling doesnt provide stability (predictable outcomes on a per player basis).

also, not sure that materials are easier to get, back in the days, before orr nerf you could get a lot of bags really really quickly.

phys.7689:

Problem is what caused this line of discussion was the desire for some stable, incremental progress towards a precursor.

If you manage your capital as a portfolio instead of as a big stack of a single asset (gold) then you’ve been pretty insulated. Even if you have been saving as gold you’ve been pretty insulated as precursors have been remarkably stable outside of the big jump from the wardrobe change.

It would be much better to have a clear process (ala precursor crafting) for acquiring a precursor though, since ‘saving up a bunch of assets to buy one’ is really unsatisfying.

Apparently you can’t call this thread what it is without being infracted… so done “communicating” on these forums.

juno.1840:

Apparently you can’t call this thread what it is without being infracted… so done “communicating” on these forums.

Maybe adding something constructive would help instead of yelling “troll thread”, which it isn’t, would help with you posts longevity.

90 gold is a reasonable price to pay for a pre if all one wants is the achievement points. It is also not that expensive of a task either at that price.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I was doing some research, and discovered that there are Precursors being sold for super cheap on the TP as I type! The image I’m attaching will shatter the mythos of Precursors being too expensive. These Precursors aren’t 2,000 Gold. Or 1,500 Gold. Or even 1,000 Gold. Amazingly, the price is between 90 to 115 Gold!!! How exactly did these deals go unnoticed for so long?

DUUUUDEEE when did you find that !?! dude i would’ve bought all 3 of them and sold them for 600-700g a pop

i wish i was there ; _ ;

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

I blame inflation.

Wanze.8410:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

I blame inflation.

I blame flippers and TP barons.

I think the real problem is forum subject is too short.

That’s why instead of saying “dusk/dawn/The Colossus/Leaf of Kudzu/The hunter/The lover/The legend/Tooth of frostfang/Spark/Zap is too expensive”…

People summarize all that and just call it precursor.

ps. I’m just joking. Dont’ take me seriously.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

God, the blatant deceit of this thread is sickening.

I think we already established ten times over that you’re nitpicking the definition of precursor either to drive up sales for yourself, or just to be a kitten.

This should have been closed for trolling a long time ago.

Labjax.2465:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

God, the blatant deceit of this thread is sickening.

I think we already established ten times over that you’re nitpicking the definition of precursor either to drive up sales for yourself, or just to be a kitten.

This should have been closed for trolling a long time ago.

Actually, nearly all precursors have lost 10-25% value within the last 2 months.

Must be counter-inflation.

Wanze.8410:

Actually, nearly all precursors have lost 10-25% value within the last 2 months.

Must be counter-inflation.

True or not, if his goal was to show balanced facts, he would be doing more than posting screenshots of the cheapest precursors and nothing else.

It’s so obvious he has an agenda. I mean, 90% of this thread is people illustrating in excruciating detail how faulty the premise of the thread is, while he half ignores the rebuttals and bumps the thread every few days.

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

Actually, nearly all precursors have lost 10-25% value within the last 2 months.

Must be counter-inflation.

True or not, if his goal was to show balanced facts, he would be doing more than posting screenshots of the cheapest precursors and nothing else.

It’s so obvious he has an agenda. I mean, 90% of this thread is people illustrating in excruciating detail how faulty the premise of the thread is, while he half ignores the rebuttals and bumps the thread every few days.

Most threads that try to illustrate the price evolution of precursors and their distaste for it, also completely ignore reasoning and are completely biased.

This is just another typical precursor topic.

Wanze.8410:

Most threads that try to illustrate the price evolution of precursors and their distaste for it, also completely ignore reasoning and are completely biased.

This is just another typical precursor topic.

Except that the “bias” of those threads is not an actual point that anyone is trying to hide. We’ve already gone over the point numerous times in this thread alone: That most people openly admit they are talking about the more popular, expensive end of precursors and how there is virtually no way to get the precursor that you want, other than shelling out tons of coin.

I don’t have a problem with honesty, even when I disagree with it. I have a problem with shady motives and bs rhetoric.

This thread won’t even acknowledge its bias, let alone have an honest discussion about it. Hence, agenda.

Actually the best ways to get the precursor you want is to either throw rare/exotic weapons into the MF until you get it, or pay someone else to do it for you. Since most players don’t intentionally lose money, they probably spent less money forging it than they are willing to sell it for. If you farm materials/gold/dungeon tokens to fuel the Mystic Forging you have a good chance to get the precursor for less than the current market value.

As for the topic, it is literally true because he does not distinguish between precursors in general and the precursor that you want. But if you think it’s breaking any rules, report the first post and let the moderators investigate. I’m guessing this has already happened, and since the thread has not been closed, he’s not breaking any rules.

Labjax.2465:

It’s so obvious he has an agenda.

Of course he does; this thread is mocking the hysterical ‘precursor prices are out of control!’ threads that pop up pretty regularly.

By ‘precursors’, of course, they mean Dusk, and by ‘out of control’ they mean several sell offers cleared in a short time leaving a higher-than-usual minimum sell offer on the trading post for a couple of hours – which, of course, is evidence of out of control inflation.

Such threads deserve to be mocked and this particular bit of mockery is pretty clever.

Ensign.2189:

Of course he does; this thread is mocking the hysterical ‘precursor prices are out of control!’ threads that pop up pretty regularly.

By ‘precursors’, of course, they mean Dusk, and by ‘out of control’ they mean several sell offers cleared in a short time leaving a higher-than-usual minimum sell offer on the trading post for a couple of hours – which, of course, is evidence of out of control inflation.

Such threads deserve to be mocked and this particular bit of mockery is pretty clever.

So… you’re saying it’s a troll thread.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

Seriously, only a fool will buy that. The materials and time it takes to complete a legendary is so costly, why would you want trash that you would rarely use? At first, I thought it was dirt cheap at 25-30g which I bought a lot of then I realize that it’s basically very expensive at the end of the day to make a legendary out of it. Why spend over 1000gold in other materials to craft something you rarely use? I think a lot of people realized it and moved on to buy something more useful and not a waste of inventory space.

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

Most threads that try to illustrate the price evolution of precursors and their distaste for it, also completely ignore reasoning and are completely biased.

This is just another typical precursor topic.

Except that the “bias” of those threads is not an actual point that anyone is trying to hide. We’ve already gone over the point numerous times in this thread alone: That most people openly admit they are talking about the more popular, expensive end of precursors and how there is virtually no way to get the precursor that you want, other than shelling out tons of coin.

I don’t have a problem with honesty, even when I disagree with it. I have a problem with shady motives and bs rhetoric.

This thread won’t even acknowledge its bias, let alone have an honest discussion about it. Hence, agenda.

All he did was making people aware that some precursors are available for under 100g, which isnt shady or bias. Then other people started discussing the prices of more expensive precursors, which is basically off topic because the thread is about the cheapest precursors.

Wanze.8410:

All he did was making people aware that some precursors are available for under 100g, which isnt shady or bias. Then other people started discussing the prices of more expensive precursors, which is basically off topic because the thread is about the cheapest precursors.

The dark side of me thinks it’s to bring awareness to an item he/she just bought plenty of and trying to let you all know so people will buy it. Which one is true depends on which side you talking to. Did it ever cross my mind to do that? Hmmm…. I’ll let you be the judge of that.

Wanze.8410:

All he did was making people aware that some precursors are available for under 100g, which isnt shady or bias. Then other people started discussing the prices of more expensive precursors, which is basically off topic because the thread is about the cheapest precursors.

And yet, if that was his goal, wouldn’t he just let the thread die after making his point? No, he continues to bump it endlessly, as if repeating the same thing is somehow going to change a point that people have not only already acknowledged, but even refuted over and over.

I’m not usually one to jump at shadows, but like SleepingDragon said, it may simply be an excuse to draw attention to the items so that he can profit. Like I said before, honest discussion is great! But there’s a lot of dishonesty about the way this thread has played out and continues to play out.

At best, this thread borders on trolling and at worst it borders on using the forums as a grey market.

P. S. The “off topic” stuff you’re referring to wasn’t off-topic. The OP referenced in his first post alone the “mythos of expensive precursors.” I’m not sure if you’re reaching or what at this point.

SleepingDragon.1596:

Wanze.8410:

All he did was making people aware that some precursors are available for under 100g, which isnt shady or bias. Then other people started discussing the prices of more expensive precursors, which is basically off topic because the thread is about the cheapest precursors.

The dark side of me thinks it’s to bring awareness to an item he/she just bought plenty of and trying to let you all know so people will buy it. Which one is true depends on which side you talking to. Did it ever cross my mind to do that? Hmmm…. I’ll let you be the judge of that.

I have done my fair share of hawking on these forums and i dont see anything wrong with it unless you try to deceive players. If you are honest why someone should buy a particular item, fair enough.
Personally, I dont think he invested into Rage and made this topic to boost its value.
If he did, it seemed pretty unsuccessful because

Right now, Rage is selling for less than 70 Gold. That means the Precursor price dropped by ~22% since this thread was started.

Wanze.8410:

I have done my fair share of hawking on these forums and i dont see anything wrong with it unless you try to deceive players. If you are honest why someone should buy a particular item, fair enough.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/These-forums-are-not-a-grey-market/first#post913290

You are not meant to use the forums as a direct advertising board to try and buy and sell items.

However, it is fine for people to discuss or point out emerging price trends or potential trading shifts that people might want to take advantage of.

For example, some screenshots from China suggest that there is a Halloween Collection coming with this week’s patch, involving consuming various Halloween foods and items. Prices for those, as well as their base ingredients, can be expected to jump when the patch hits as a result. (It doesn’t affect me as I have all the recipes for the foods anyway and I’ll just be crafting what I need from my own stockpiles.)

Labjax.2465:

So… you’re saying it’s a troll thread.

No, this thread is more akin to satire.

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

I have done my fair share of hawking on these forums and i dont see anything wrong with it unless you try to deceive players. If you are honest why someone should buy a particular item, fair enough.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/These-forums-are-not-a-grey-market/first#post913290

By hawking i mean generating general demand for an item, which I have alot of supply of and want to sell with a profit. As I still buy and sell through the TP, the intended way of trading, I dont enter a grey market.

Wanze.8410:

By hawking i mean generating general demand for an item, which I have alot of supply of and want to sell with a profit. As I still buy and sell through the TP, the intended way of trading, I dont enter a grey market.

Ah, so just market manipulation then. That’s probably worse. I’m kinda surprised you’re admitting to it outright, as if it’s a normal thing to do.

Zaxares.5419:

However, it is fine for people to discuss or point out emerging price trends or potential trading shifts that people might want to take advantage of.

Probably so. I believe the distinction there is in providing people information, rather than trying to manipulate the market for personal gain.

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

By hawking i mean generating general demand for an item, which I have alot of supply of and want to sell with a profit. As I still buy and sell through the TP, the intended way of trading, I dont enter a grey market.

Ah, so just market manipulation then. That’s probably worse. I’m kinda surprised you’re admitting to it outright, as if it’s a normal thing to do.

Zaxares.5419:

However, it is fine for people to discuss or point out emerging price trends or potential trading shifts that people might want to take advantage of.

Probably so. I believe the distinction there is in providing people information, rather than trying to manipulate the market for personal gain.

I dont manipulate any markets, if I tell players, that i bought up alot of Gibbering Skulls between 5-20g because the price of Chattering Skulls is hovering between 3-5s atm.
That would mean that a Gibbering Skull would be valued between 30-50g, if Sonder the Seller keeps his trading ratio from last year.
I didnt buy from anyone who didnt want to sell and i wont sell to anyone who doesnt want to buy, so where is this manipulation you are talking about?

I usually invest in certain items for a reason, usually because i expect its supply or demand to change and i expect a profit. What is wrong with sharing that?

I dont go and buy out a random item and then start some rediculous rumor on reddit about it. I usually state why i invested in it personally. Its up to each individual to make their choice and follow me or not.

Wanze.8410:

I dont manipulate any markets, if I tell players, that i bought up alot of Gibbering Skulls between 5-20g because the price of Chattering Skulls is hovering between 3-5s atm.
That would mean that a Gibbering Skull would be valued between 30-50g, if Sonder the Seller keeps his trading ratio from last year.
I didnt buy from anyone who didnt want to sell and i wont sell to anyone who doesnt want to buy, so where is this manipulation you are talking about?

I usually invest in certain items for a reason, usually because i expect its supply or demand to change and i expect a profit. What is wrong with sharing that?

I dont go and buy out a random item and then start some rediculous rumor on reddit about it. I usually state why i invested in it personally. Its up to each individual to make their choice and follow me or not.

I’m just going based on your words. You said: “By hawking i mean generating general demand for an item, which I have alot of supply of and want to sell with a profit.”

That’s very different from analyzing market trends and sharing such information with the sole purpose of helping other people.

Your original words pretty clearly imply that you’re artificially generating demand, i.e. manipulating the market in some way.

So either you’re trying to backpedal on what you’re doing or your original statement was insanely off the mark in terms of what you’re trying to convey.

In before the inevitable “when will anet address price DEFLATION which is making the rich get richer???!?!?!??!?!?!” threads.

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

I dont manipulate any markets, if I tell players, that i bought up alot of Gibbering Skulls between 5-20g because the price of Chattering Skulls is hovering between 3-5s atm.
That would mean that a Gibbering Skull would be valued between 30-50g, if Sonder the Seller keeps his trading ratio from last year.
I didnt buy from anyone who didnt want to sell and i wont sell to anyone who doesnt want to buy, so where is this manipulation you are talking about?

I usually invest in certain items for a reason, usually because i expect its supply or demand to change and i expect a profit. What is wrong with sharing that?

I dont go and buy out a random item and then start some rediculous rumor on reddit about it. I usually state why i invested in it personally. Its up to each individual to make their choice and follow me or not.

I’m just going based on your words. You said: “By hawking i mean generating general demand for an item, which I have alot of supply of and want to sell with a profit.”

That’s very different from analyzing market trends and sharing such information with the sole purpose of helping other people.

Your original words pretty clearly imply that you’re artificially generating demand, i.e. manipulating the market in some way.

So either you’re trying to backpedal on what you’re doing or your original statement was insanely off the mark in terms of what you’re trying to convey.

I am not manipulating markets, i am interacting with them as intended.
The only demand I can directly influence is my own (buying up gibbering skulls).
I can suggest to others to do the same by laying out my reasons why i bought them and i think they will increase in value pretty soon but the decision to add additional demand has to come from others.
For me, manipulation implies that i force someone to do something they dont intend to do or if I claim future demand will arise pretty soon while giving intentionally false reasons. I dont do that.

If you think what I do is manipulation, then any youtube guide that promotes a certain build to do certain content including tradeable gear could be labeled market manipulation as well.

I noticed several people mentioning that they got precursors from mystic forge. All they did was 1) bought mats from TP, 2) crafted some rares and 3) mystic forged crafted rares.

So many market manipulators!

Only reason to build the ugly legendaries is to build lets say 2 Rodgorts for the Twice Told Legend title. Legendaries like Rodgort might as well be exotics because they look 0% legendary.
Saying this as someone who built 2 rodgorts for the 25 AP and the title.

Wanze.8410:

I am not manipulating markets, i am interacting with them as intended.
The only demand I can directly influence is my own (buying up gibbering skulls).
I can suggest to others to do the same by laying out my reasons why i bought them and i think they will increase in value pretty soon but the decision to add additional demand has to come from others.
For me, manipulation implies that i force someone to do something they dont intend to do or if I claim future demand will arise pretty soon while giving intentionally false reasons. I dont do that.

If you think what I do is manipulation, then any youtube guide that promotes a certain build to do certain content including tradeable gear could be labeled market manipulation as well.

Like I said, your original words implied something very different. Probably just a miscommunication.

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

I am not manipulating markets, i am interacting with them as intended.
The only demand I can directly influence is my own (buying up gibbering skulls).
I can suggest to others to do the same by laying out my reasons why i bought them and i think they will increase in value pretty soon but the decision to add additional demand has to come from others.
For me, manipulation implies that i force someone to do something they dont intend to do or if I claim future demand will arise pretty soon while giving intentionally false reasons. I dont do that.

If you think what I do is manipulation, then any youtube guide that promotes a certain build to do certain content including tradeable gear could be labeled market manipulation as well.

Like I said, your original words implied something very different. Probably just a miscommunication.

Yeah, anyways, i would be interested in your definition of market manipulation.

Wanze.8410:

Yeah, anyways, i would be interested in your definition of market manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

Yeah, anyways, i would be interested in your definition of market manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

I was referring towards the GW2 economy, not the real life stock market.

Wanze.8410:

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

Yeah, anyways, i would be interested in your definition of market manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

I was referring towards the GW2 economy, not the real life stock market.

Ok? You asked for my definition, that’s the one I’m operating on. You think the devs don’t use real world definitions sometimes concerning in-game markets?

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

Labjax.2465:

Wanze.8410:

Yeah, anyways, i would be interested in your definition of market manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

I was referring towards the GW2 economy, not the real life stock market.

Ok? You asked for my definition, that’s the one I’m operating on. You think the devs don’t use real world definitions sometimes concerning in-game markets?

They might use real life definitions sometimes but im pretty sure the real life definition of market manipulation isnt applied towards the game economy. One of the mayor differences is that MM in real life is illegal in most cases and in game its not.

When you accused me of MM, it sure sounded like I was admitting to doing something that is wrong or against the EULA.

Edit: The only MM i can think of that is deemed “illegal” in both worlds is insider trading, in which the player basically violates his NDA of privileged information.

Wanze.8410:

They might use real life definitions sometimes but im pretty sure the real life definition of market manipulation isnt applied towards the game economy. One of the mayor differences is that MM in real life is illegal in most cases and in game its not.

When you accused me of MM, it sure sounded like I was admitting to doing something that is wrong or against the EULA.

Edit: The only MM i can think of that is deemed “illegal” in both worlds is insider trading, in which the player basically violates his NDA of privileged information.

I don’t know what their position is, but I imagine there’s a fine line. Keep in mind that the thread about not using the forums as a grey market, for example, doesn’t say “we’re going to instantly ban you if you do.” It just says “please do not use them as such” and they would probably delete threads that attempt to.

I wasn’t trying to imply that if you were manipulating markets, you are committing a heinous crime, but rather than it may be looked down upon and discouraged.

As it is, you are saying that’s not what you’re doing and I have largely left it at that. I’ll reiterate one last time: If all you are doing is the kind of examples you gave (essentially watching market trends and sharing that information with others) then I don’t even see an issue.

It is the intentions more than anything that can be suspect. To give you an example of what I would consider shady practice (e.g. not technically “market manipulation,” but nonetheless shady): Say I have 100 Widgets that I bought at 4s each and instead of the price going up as I had hoped, they have steadily declined over 6 months to selling for 50c each. And even worse, no one is buying Widgets anymore. If I were to sell the 100 Widgets right now, I would be losing money, but at least I could get some money back. As it is, I can’t even sell them.

Now imagine I decide that rather than sitting on the useless Widgets, I will talk about my stock (Widgets) with other people and try to come up with reasons why they should buy them. Or try to portray them in such a light that people feel like now is the time to buy. In real life, this is just typical sales practice, right?

But then we’re talking about a game economy where all copies of an item are exactly the same level of quality. And we have a trading post with anonymous sales, and are discouraged from trading amongst ourselves. Acting the part of a salesman in subtle ways seems like it would be an undermining of the system, doesnt it? Not to mention the questionable nature of doing so under the guise of something else.

Again though, you are probably fine, even by my definitions of shady.

Ensign.2189:

Labjax.2465:

So… you’re saying it’s a troll thread.

No, this thread is more akin to satire.

Still falls into the category of trolling. I’ve had a short, off-line discussion with support on how the forum policy is not uniformly enforced. This topic is an example. It’s a mocking post at best, at worst a trolling post designed to inflame some players.

Everybody knows why those precursors are cheap. The precursor topics that are being “mocked” are talking about the high demand precursors.

Don’t call the OP a troll however, or you’ll get infracted.

Satire is not trolling.

At the very least this topic was to counter the insensate wailing of some players that precursors were priced out of the range they could afford and thus was totally unfair. The thread at it’s most basic shows that demand is behind the high price of certain precursors but if demand isn’t there, prices are allot more reasonable. If anything it encourages players not to use such a broad brush when they say a whole group of items are not affordable.

Ignoring posters saying they weren’t talking about these inexpensive ones were either ignored or countered in the same manner when players post on the complaint threads when they inform why or suggest ways to get the gold to buy them. Thus satire.

If you find this thread annoying just understand the feeling some of us get when we defend the TP and economy.

Behellagh.1468:

Satire is not trolling.

At the very least this topic was to counter the insensate wailing of some players that precursors were priced out of the range they could afford and thus was totally unfair. The thread at it’s most basic shows that demand is behind the high price of certain precursors but if demand isn’t there, prices are allot more reasonable. If anything it encourages players not to use such a broad brush when they say a whole group of items are not affordable.

Ignoring posters saying they weren’t talking about these inexpensive ones were either ignored or countered in the same manner when players post on the complaint threads when they inform why or suggest ways to get the gold to buy them. Thus satire.

If you find this thread annoying just understand the feeling some of us get when we defend the TP and economy.

noun: satire

the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people’s stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
synonyms: mockery, ridicule, derision, scorn, caricature

Idk seems pretty spot on for trolling to me.

By all means continue to defend — there’s good reason to defend the TP and economy.

However making a trolling post doesn’t do your argument justice — it just drives the wedge a little farther between your arguments and the players you’re trying to convince.

The OP is total snark — not even subtle. I’m not sure what I’m more disappointed about… the lack of forum policy enforcement or the players that defend this post as some champion argument against economic ignorance.

At least the players that post the “precursors are too expensive” aren’t doing it to troll — they genuinely believe there’s a problem. This topic is just junk.

Behellagh.1468:

If you find this thread annoying just understand the feeling some of us get when we defend the TP and economy.

I understand how frustrating it can be when people misrepresent knowledge. And I equally understand the urge to mock, as it takes a fraction of the effort that it would take to inform people.

But the truth is, it doesn’t serve any constructive purpose. At the end of the day, the people who don’t understand probably still don’t understand and a bunch of people who do understand now feel vindicated. That’s about it.

If the goal is to improve the quality of discussion and inform people, those who understand economies are better served with providing straightforward information on how they work (a great example of this is John Smith’s Q&A thread).

That said, I’ve done my fair share of mocking over the years and I probably wouldn’t be batting an eyelid at this thread, if it wasn’t for the persistent bumping to keep it in the limelight and the persistent refusal to evolve beyond refutations of its premise.

juno.1840:

-snip- “precursors are too expensive” aren’t doing it to troll — they genuinely believe there’s a problem. This topic is just junk.

can you share what the problem is? if it’s pricey, i don’t think that is a problem; it is simply supply and demand. the same can be said for ANY item that is highly sought after but very very few supplies. Say Mini Karka, they don’t even do anything.

Behellagh.1468:

Satire is not trolling.

At the very least this topic was to counter the insensate wailing of some players that precursors were priced out of the range they could afford and thus was totally unfair. The thread at it’s most basic shows that demand is behind the high price of certain precursors but if demand isn’t there, prices are allot more reasonable. If anything it encourages players not to use such a broad brush when they say a whole group of items are not affordable.

Ignoring posters saying they weren’t talking about these inexpensive ones were either ignored or countered in the same manner when players post on the complaint threads when they inform why or suggest ways to get the gold to buy them. Thus satire.

If you find this thread annoying just understand the feeling some of us get when we defend the TP and economy.

satire is almost the very definition of trolling

Okay, I’ll grant you it’s trolling but in a more creative way than the usual “A better than B” or “Everyone knows X is true (or false)”.

But precursor pricing is a lot like mount threads as they crop up with alarming regularity. The primary reason that certain precursor prices are high is the combination of low drop rates, high demand and a portion of the player base with lots of gold competing for those few that are put up for sale. But players starting those don’t want to hear those reasons. They think they should have gotten one at least after X hours of play.

And the reason we go to the TP for them is because the drop rate is so low and RNG does not guarantee a drop in some large number of hours of play and if you are lucky enough to get one, fair odds it’s not the one you want so off to the TP.

Now John Smith has started a thread on RNG problems and possible solutions for extremely rare item drops, the fact that some players feel that it’s impossible to ever get the game to reward the player with those items. Now that discussion is a better use of player’s forum time than deriding the devs over their reward system or blaming flippers or the Gem Shop or Nexon or sunspots for either the TP price or lack of getting one from a drop (or Forge).

For example, some screenshots from China suggest that there is a Halloween Collection coming with this week’s patch, involving consuming various Halloween foods and items. Prices for those, as well as their base ingredients, can be expected to jump when the patch hits as a result. (It doesn’t affect me as I have all the recipes for the foods anyway and I’ll just be crafting what I need from my own stockpiles.)

And part of the problem with the way ANet handles their patches is that players should not have to follow datamines or Chinese forums to get a headstart on these markets that will give them a competitive advantage when these events roll around. ANet should actively work to thwart this sort of behavior, deliberately crashing markets that try to build themselves up on speculation, or putting in datamine elements that are entirely wrong so that people stockpile mats pre-patch that it turns out the patch adds no use for.