Guild Wars 2

I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?

I would also like to see more instanced content.

What a great idea! Other mmos have it – Wow, SWTOR, to name a few…

I think the dev should add that in the next patch. LOL good thing I am taking a break to play WS :P

I would play WS as well, but I can’t bring myself to invest time into another NCSoft product after seeing what happened with GW2.

Oh my are doing this dance again ? It was said right from the launch of game that these type of thing will not be in gw2 as it wants people to play together not exclude folks.
If you wanted a game that have these idiotic mechanics then you have a choice of thousands of other crappy games to go play. As for these uber zerker groups ive seen tons and tons of em fail horribly in dungeons while lower level people of mixed classes to just fine.

Woljnir.7810:

If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?

Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.

^This. This basically sums it all up. Thank you, Woljnir.

Woljnir.7810:

If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?

Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.

1. The other way around works too. If someone else plays how they want which I don’t approve, it will infringe on how I play how I want if I let them in my party. In this case, if you don’t want to take the time to equip for the right equipment in my party, then create your own party that accepts anybody even with lower gear levels.

2. There are people that wants to find the highest DPS ever and then there are people like me. I will need DPS meters to know how much DPS I have for this build. I can choose to sacrifice DPS for utility if I need to. Let say that I want to use Ranger Axe/Axe build. First I look for the highest dps possible, then I shave off the dps for utility/survivability if I choose to. There are builds for highest DPS for warriors; however, they all use Greatsword or axe/mace, yet there are no builds for highest mace DPS build. As a mace guy, I assure that it will reinforce on playing how I want.

Are two things that are not needed in game.

I certainly don’t care if there is a personal damage meter added. However, I don’t see why people who want efficient parties should have an easier time of getting a party than people who want no drama. Add a kitten meter, and I might reconsider.

As to /inspect… Add an opt-out and you can have that, too.

You’re in the wrong game. Damage meters and inspect commands will never ever happen. Instanced content: look at the sad state of dungeons/fractals.

I think a personal DPS meter that can’t be viewed by anyone but yourself might be acceptable to the GW2 community… but there’s practically no chance that Anet would ever bother to implement this.

runeblade.7514:

Woljnir.7810:

If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?

Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.

1. The other way around works too. If someone else plays how they want which I don’t approve, it will infringe on how I play how I want if I let them in my party. In this case, if you don’t want to take the time to equip for the right equipment in my party, then create your own party that accepts anybody even with lower gear levels.

2. There are people that wants to find the highest DPS ever and then there are people like me. I will need DPS meters to know how much DPS I have for this build. I can choose to sacrifice DPS for utility if I need to. Let say that I want to use Ranger Axe/Axe build. First I look for the highest dps possible, then I shave off the dps for utility/survivability if I choose to. There are builds for highest DPS for warriors; however, they all use Greatsword or axe/mace, yet there are no builds for highest mace DPS build. As a mace guy, I assure that it will reinforce on playing how I want.

And this is exactly why it doesn’t exist. Those people who don’t like a person’s build so they just kick them? Yeah, that’s you. The elitism just drips from your post. Sorry that you feel the need to approve of other player’s builds. The “right equipment” isn’t decided by anybody other than the player.

Woljnir is absolutely right.
I don’t feel like being excluded from every single dungeon just because people have decided that my celestial ele is worthless and that I should be running zerker. Just because there is a meta doesn’t mean the meta is the only viable thing. An inspect tool is a surefire way to promote exclusion in a game that is about inclusivity… The ONLY form an inspect tool would be acceptable in would be if it just showed you what skins someone was using.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Woljnir is absolutely right.
I don’t feel like being excluded from every single dungeon just because people have decided that my celestial ele is worthless and that I should be running zerker. Just because there is a meta doesn’t mean the meta is the only viable thing. An inspect tool is a surefire way to promote exclusion in a game that is about inclusivity… The ONLY form an inspect tool would be acceptable in would be if it just showed you what skins someone was using.

Conversely if the majority of the group wants to do the dungeon as fast as is humanly possible, shouldn’t they be able to remove people who refuse to leave their group so that they can get another player who wants to play their way into their group?

Why should the player who knows they aren’t doing top DPS infringe on a group of speed clearers who make it perfectly clear in their LFG that they are a speed group?

Yes, instant kicks without talking to the player is rude, but that’s going to happen DPS meter, inspect command or not.

I am not in favor of a public DPS meter. Should only be viewable by the player themselves. And I would also limit inspect to skins. The rude people don’t need tools to make it easier for them to be rude. It’s just naive to think that without them the rude people aren’t going to be rude.

Woljnir.7810:

runeblade.7514:

Woljnir.7810:

If playing how you want infringes on someone else playing how they want, nothing will ever be solved. Inspect someone and see they have their own build and aren’t zerker, kick right away without even saying anything. Am I doing it right?

Also DPS meters? Really? In a game that basically just consists of 5 man groups of all DPS, I don’t think DPS meters are needed in the least other than to stroke Berserker’s kitten and the need to see the big numbers. And yes, I understand you said nothing about Berserker, but that is honestly how your post comes off.

1. The other way around works too. If someone else plays how they want which I don’t approve, it will infringe on how I play how I want if I let them in my party. In this case, if you don’t want to take the time to equip for the right equipment in my party, then create your own party that accepts anybody even with lower gear levels.

2. There are people that wants to find the highest DPS ever and then there are people like me. I will need DPS meters to know how much DPS I have for this build. I can choose to sacrifice DPS for utility if I need to. Let say that I want to use Ranger Axe/Axe build. First I look for the highest dps possible, then I shave off the dps for utility/survivability if I choose to. There are builds for highest DPS for warriors; however, they all use Greatsword or axe/mace, yet there are no builds for highest mace DPS build. As a mace guy, I assure that it will reinforce on playing how I want.

And this is exactly why it doesn’t exist. Those people who don’t like a person’s build so they just kick them? Yeah, that’s you. The elitism just drips from your post. Sorry that you feel the need to approve of other player’s builds. The “right equipment” isn’t decided by anybody other than the player.

You missed the part where using whatever gear that will hurt the party dps will infringe on my playstyle. It is my party, I created the LFG with the title: “Zerker and experienced only!” I do not want to invite any players that will waste unnecessary time in the dungeon run with DPS so low, it will take for hours to complete.

If you don’t like the way how I play, make your own party. You don’t need to join my party. It cost 0 gold 0 silver 0 copper to make your own lfg. I do create and join parties that accept anyone. These parties do exist and there are players willing to join these parties.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Woljnir is absolutely right.
I don’t feel like being excluded from every single dungeon just because people have decided that my celestial ele is worthless and that I should be running zerker. Just because there is a meta doesn’t mean the meta is the only viable thing. An inspect tool is a surefire way to promote exclusion in a game that is about inclusivity… The ONLY form an inspect tool would be acceptable in would be if it just showed you what skins someone was using.

Why did you join the “Zerker and experienced only!” parties? So far, only these parties exclude low dps geared players.

Yeah, Im 99.9% sure Id never get a group if someone saw my stats like that. I use my shortbow the vast majority of the time in dungeons because its the only weapon i feel I can use for most situations, but its not overly strong. As a thief Ive set up using mostly power, precision and toughness. Its not right for someone to kick me from a group just because they don’t like how I set up to play.

Not in this game please. I have no problems with the tools themselves, having used them in other games, but that experience has also shown me the drama these tools can cause once they’re in the hands of Joe Gamer.

Given that GW2 doesn’t have much in the way of dps check encounters you might commonly see in other games (i.e. enrage timers), I really don’t see a pressing need for these tools to be added.

Ping your gear, satisfy both parties.

If your group is so streamlined that you need specific stats, then request a ping and if people do not want to comply they can leave and both parties understand each other.

If you joined a zerk group and don’t ping your gear, then be ready to accept a kick and don’t be naive.

For everyone else, this allows them to not be subjected to unwanted scrutiny without permission and let them opt if they want to show gear or not.

As far as damage meters, do your theory crafting, communicate with your peers, and test against consistent targets for time and what not for effectiveness.

Not the perfect answer, but it satisfies the bare minimums of both requests on both sides of the argument.

Lazarus.3970:

Yeah, Im 99.9% sure Id never get a group if someone saw my stats like that. I use my shortbow the vast majority of the time in dungeons because its the only weapon i feel I can use for most situations, but its not overly strong. As a thief Ive set up using mostly power, precision and toughness. Its not right for someone to kick me from a group just because they don’t like how I set up to play.

So make your own group. Only you get to care how you want your group to play or they get kicked.

It cost 0 gold 0 silver 0 copper to create your own lfg.

99% of the time, I never see the zerker/exp/level 80 parties. Should I put up and join the casual parties? No. I create my own lfg and watch how fast it fills up.

Can a moderator close this already? This is just going to end up being yet another

“I play this way in a group I form and I want like minded players only. You can play your way if you form your own group with no conditions attached”

sort of thread, which usually descends into the standard elitist vs. casuals, zerk vs non zerk arguments that happen every few days.

Nice try Dark Catalyst, but people in the game are more afraid of being made fun of then they are driven to improve their play.

I gotta say, the DPS meter in WS beta was a breath of fresh air. It was nice to see the numbers reflect my personal progression as i figured out better ways to combo my skills.

I have nothing against the tools themselves, per se. I tend to have issues with the people that tend to abuse such tools – in other words, I’d prefer not to enable them. Personally, I think I would prefer the damage meter to simply be personal, not group wide, but whatever. Put ’em in, go for it and in addition, triple the ignore list space as well. Also fix the ignore functionality.

@Scramble, if the dps meter is purely for personal improvement, it doesn’t need to be group wide.

You are not the first person to request this:

Please see
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/A-Simple-DPS-Meter-solution
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/Damage-Meter
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Suggestion-Your-own-private-DPS-meter
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/Personal-damage-meter-API
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-there-should-be-a-dps-meter/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Seeing-other-players-damage

Oh yes I could go on and on.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Seeing-other-players-damage

Seems like the most recent incarnation of this thread.

That said. I am fine with personal DPS meters but not a /inspect or a group DPS meter for reasons specified in the threads above. Nothing in the game has changed to make those arguments against invalid.

Not this topic again..

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

@Scramble, if the dps meter is purely for personal improvement, it doesn’t need to be group wide.

A group wide tool is definitely beneficial, though.

While your personal DPS may improve as you get better, you could still be way behind other players’ DPS and not know it.

If you see that you are consistently at the bottom of the charts, you can tell there may be something you can improve on. Even if you think you are doing everything right there could be something very simple you are missing. But if you only see your numbers go up, you may have no idea there is an issue with your performance, relative to your peers.

You could always just ask your teammates, so it’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but i think a group wide tool is much more accessible and accurate.

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

@Scramble, if the dps meter is purely for personal improvement, it doesn’t need to be group wide.

A group wide tool is definitely beneficial, though.

While your personal DPS may improve as you get better, you could still be way behind other players’ DPS and not know it.

If you see that you are consistently at the bottom of the charts, you can tell there may be something you can improve on. Even if you think you are doing everything right there could be something very simple you are missing. But if you only see your numbers go up, you may have no idea there is an issue with your performance, relative to your peers.

You could always just ask your teammates, so it’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but i think a group wide tool is much more accessible and accurate.

Solution group with like minded players and ask them what their average DPS is if a tool like that ever exists on a personal level. Group wide will just be exploited by un-friendly players and further drive the zerker meta(one that I think is unhealthy for the game).

If you had bothered to search the forum first, you’d see how these have been discussed heavily and very solidly shown that they are terrible ideas (namely the DPS meter).

I don’t get it. Why does a certain fraction of the population even want these things added if not to just to give out a sense of superiority over another player?

Honestly I could have the absolute best in gear, the best traits and be using the best food utilities and hit godlike numbers when I attack. However, it all falls apart if I don’t use X attack quick enough or have the proper rotation for Y encounter. In other words damage/gear does NOT equal skill otherwise the leader boards would all have only a 1st place and instead list the gear/traits etc of the players.

I think what you are actually looking for is a competence meter and until they figure out how to make one of those you’re out of luck.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would like to see these two things in game. By allowing players like me use these tools, you are making it possible for us to “play how we want”. What’s wrong with being able to control the quality of player that I let into my party?

I would also like to see more instanced content.

No and No. People are complaining that the game is getting Elitist and this would only make it worse.

You don’t need to have impact or DPS meter to do that. Just pick friends.

People don’t want to get called out for being bad nor do they want to improve. Hence all the vitriol for DPS/Inspect meters, disguised as “I play how I want” ™

Brutal Arts.6307:

People don’t want to get called out for being bad nor do they want to improve. Hence all the vitriol for DPS/Inspect meters, disguised as “I play how I want” ™

No they don’t want to get called out for not playing in the extreme end of efficiency when it is not needed. There is a balance that is needed in all things. I run a more balanced gear set for the simple reason I like having more health to afford room for error. There is room for glass cannons in the game but a DPS meter will force even more people to go glass cannon.

PVT and Clerics need their place in the game also.

runeblade.7514:

You missed the part where using whatever gear that will hurt the party dps will infringe on my playstyle. It is my party, I created the LFG with the title: “Zerker and experienced only!” I do not want to invite any players that will waste unnecessary time in the dungeon run with DPS so low, it will take for hours to complete.

If you don’t like the way how I play, make your own party. You don’t need to join my party. It cost 0 gold 0 silver 0 copper to make your own lfg. I do create and join parties that accept anyone. These parties do exist and there are players willing to join these parties.

So then why the need for inspect? You post you want zerker only, make them ping their gear, kick if it isn’t to your standards. Speedrunners want to run with other speedrunners and have no problem pinging their gear. In fact, most speedrun groups I’ve been in, people ping gear upon joining by default. An inspect button is simply unnecessary. You are taking the appropriate steps to make sure you play the way you want. Just like people who want to specifically do a casual run should post “casual run, all welcome, no gear req”.

I can assure you that speedrunners want to run with other speedrunners, casual runners want to run with other casual runners. You just need to clearly label what group you are. Don’t post something like “lf2m cof p1” then start asking people to ping gear when they join. That’s a waste of everyone’s time. Use “lf2m cof p1 speedrun zerker only ping gear”. You will instantly weed out casuals.

Brutal Arts.6307:

People don’t want to get called out for being bad nor do they want to improve. Hence all the vitriol for DPS/Inspect meters, disguised as “I play how I want” ™

Not at all. I have played many games where they have had these two items and it became Elitist to the point of being obnoxious. Sorry – don’t need that.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I would play WS as well, but I can’t bring myself to invest time into another NCSoft product after seeing what happened with GW2.

I too am leery after what happened to this title. We’ll see in the next few months. I’m waiting on BD personally.

And to the op’s request, yeah that’s exactly what this game needs is even more ways for the elitists to discriminate against other players.

Lazarus.3970:

Yeah, Im 99.9% sure Id never get a group if someone saw my stats like that. I use my shortbow the vast majority of the time in dungeons because its the only weapon i feel I can use for most situations, but its not overly strong. As a thief Ive set up using mostly power, precision and toughness. Its not right for someone to kick me from a group just because they don’t like how I set up to play.

If you are primarily using your shortbow in dungeons, then you deserve to be kicked if you join a group that advertises itself as a speed-run or zerker group. You should instead seek out a group of like-minded players who don’t care if they spend an hour doing a few ac paths. Some of us like to get 12-14 paths cleared in 2 hours total because we have limited time to play.

Seriously though, you should try to take some more risks and learn how your profession works first before even doing dungeons if you think sitting back and plinking with shortbow is how it works. You are doing it all wrong. My main is a thief, and I don’t even have a ranged weapon equipped in most dungeons unless its for stacking stealth…..

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Not this topic again..

They aren’t winning on the “we want dueling” front, so they are trying a different tactic.

zoejo.2317:

calyx.9086:

Dusty Moon.4382:

No and No. People are complaining that the game is getting Elitist and this would only make it worse.

It’s only becoming more elitist because most of the GW2 population consists of kitten poor players wearing PVT and Clerics who whine over and over about how they are just playing how they want aka playing like crap.

…he says, proving Dusty Moon’s point.

I wasn’t arguing that there are not plenty of elitists in this game when it comes to some content, of course there are. And there always will be in a game where people like to expound on the fact that it’s ok to be a subpar player because they are just playing how they want.

Honestly, I could care less what builds or professions or skills people use, as long as it’s not in my group, and I don’t see why some people are so offended by that. No one is forced to play with anyone else, it’s very easy to form groups to enjoy content the way you want to enjoy it.

anzenketh.3759:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

@Scramble, if the dps meter is purely for personal improvement, it doesn’t need to be group wide.

A group wide tool is definitely beneficial, though.

While your personal DPS may improve as you get better, you could still be way behind other players’ DPS and not know it.

If you see that you are consistently at the bottom of the charts, you can tell there may be something you can improve on. Even if you think you are doing everything right there could be something very simple you are missing. But if you only see your numbers go up, you may have no idea there is an issue with your performance, relative to your peers.

You could always just ask your teammates, so it’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but i think a group wide tool is much more accessible and accurate.

Solution group with like minded players and ask them what their average DPS is if a tool like that ever exists on a personal level. Group wide will just be exploited by un-friendly players and further drive the zerker meta(one that I think is unhealthy for the game).

Your solution (group with like minded players) would actually mitigate any issue caused by a group wide DPS meter.

I said in the first place that you could just ask people, but you are sacrificing accessibility, accuracy, and increasing the burden on other players to respond to your requests, in order to cater to players that don’t have any interest joining optimal groups in the first place.

Honestly, you could just do the same thing that was suggested in the duel thread: Add it as an opt-in Gem Store feature. That way, there is a real barrier to entry and a legitimate excuse for not having the DPS meter, while making it accessible to those that would enjoy using it.

calyx.9086:

zoejo.2317:

calyx.9086:

Dusty Moon.4382:

No and No. People are complaining that the game is getting Elitist and this would only make it worse.

It’s only becoming more elitist because most of the GW2 population consists of kitten poor players wearing PVT and Clerics who whine over and over about how they are just playing how they want aka playing like crap.

…he says, proving Dusty Moon’s point.

I wasn’t arguing that there are not plenty of elitists in this game when it comes to some content, of course there are. And there always will be in a game where people like to expound on the fact that it’s ok to be a subpar player because they are just playing how they want.

Honestly, I could care less what builds or professions or skills people use, as long as it’s not in my group, and I don’t see why some people are so offended by that. No one is forced to play with anyone else, it’s very easy to form groups to enjoy content the way you want to enjoy it.

Nothing’s wrong with being picky about your group. Saying elitism is caused by players being poor, bundling them all under “whining” and assuming all other playstyles that don’t fit your party are “crap”, that’s pretty elitist.

If elitism is caused by players being poor, is racism caused by people being non-white?
The only thing that causes elitism (or any other attitude) is players chosing to be that way.

calyx.9086:

Dusty Moon.4382:

No and No. People are complaining that the game is getting Elitist and this would only make it worse.

It’s only becoming more elitist because most of the GW2 population consists of kitten poor players wearing PVT and Clerics who whine over and over about how they are just playing how they want aka playing like crap.

Yes because gear is what makes you a good player versus a bad player….riiiight. Unless you honestly believe that if you are in zerker gear there’s absolutely no way you could play like crap. I’m sure many here would disagree with you quite a bit.

I run a PVT guardian w/ clerics trinkets in most dungeons (have cleared every dungeon every path and at this point up to FoTM43, without any issue). I’ve yet to whine about anything. If I want an 8min CoF run, I’ll hop on my zerker warrior and look for speedrun groups (but only if they only need 1 more person already). If I’m OK with a 13min CoF run, I’ll stick with my guardian.

I’ve been trying to take note of times to fulfill groups for speedruns versus casuals, and honestly the last couple of groups I’ve been in that wanted zerker only (and typically warriors), it has taken ~10min minutes of us standing around to get an acceptable group together (acceptable to the group leader, thus me only joining speedruns if they need 1 more, not gonna just stand around). Compared to my “casual” groups (which basically means bring any gear you want) that fill up within 30secs. My casual group would be practically done with the CoF p1 run before the zerker “speedrun” group even starts. Just seems like a complete waste of time, especially since the whole point of speedrunning is quick dungeon turn-around, not necessarily running the dungeon fastest. You want to be able to finish X number of dungeons in Y time. If you have to wait a bunch of time in between each to get a group together, then what are you really accomplishing?

Draknar.5748:

calyx.9086:

Dusty Moon.4382:

No and No. People are complaining that the game is getting Elitist and this would only make it worse.

It’s only becoming more elitist because most of the GW2 population consists of kitten poor players wearing PVT and Clerics who whine over and over about how they are just playing how they want aka playing like crap.

Yes because gear is what makes you a good player versus a bad player….riiiight. Unless you honestly believe that if you are in zerker gear there’s absolutely no way you could play like crap. I’m sure many here would disagree with you quite a bit.

I run a PVT guardian w/ clerics trinkets in most dungeons (have cleared every dungeon every path and at this point up to FoTM43, without any issue). I’ve yet to whine about anything. If I want an 8min CoF run, I’ll hop on my zerker warrior and look for speedrun groups (but only if they only need 1 more person already). If I’m OK with a 13min CoF run, I’ll stick with my guardian.

I’ve been trying to take note of times to fulfill groups for speedruns versus casuals, and honestly the last couple of groups I’ve been in that wanted zerker only (and typically warriors), it has taken ~10min minutes of us standing around to get an acceptable group together (acceptable to the group leader, thus me only joining speedruns if they need 1 more, not gonna just stand around). Compared to my “casual” groups (which basically means bring any gear you want) that fill up within 30secs. My casual group would be practically done with the CoF p1 run before the zerker “speedrun” group even starts. Just seems like a complete waste of time, especially since the whole point of speedrunning is quick dungeon turn-around, not necessarily running the dungeon fastest. You want to be able to finish X number of dungeons in Y time. If you have to wait a bunch of time in between each to get a group together, then what are you really accomplishing?

Those truly into speed running tend to have groups of their own and don’t pug it.

I think what came out of these threads is that some players like DPS meters, some don’t. Anet going either way is going to annoy players.

zoejo.2317:

Nothing’s wrong with being picky about your group. Saying elitism is caused by players being poor, bundling them all under “whining” and assuming all other playstyles that don’t fit your party are “crap”, that’s pretty elitist.

If elitism is caused by players being poor, is racism caused by people being non-white?
The only thing that causes elitism (or any other attitude) is players chosing to be that way.

Ok, I wasn’t trying to lump everyone together who doesn’t fit that playstyle, and that’s the way I came off. I was mainly referring to the people I see gripe about it on the forums.

Also, I wasn’t referring to poor as in how much gold someone has, but rather to their playing abilities.

Again, I have nothing against people running whatever builds and gear they want, I have many guildies who do exactly that, and many friends who do the same. But you won’t catch me running a dungeon with them unless I’m really bored and have a bunch of time to waste.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I think what came out of these threads is that some players like DPS meters, some don’t. Anet going either way is going to annoy players.

But the question then becomes, “How will the players that don’t like it be effected?”

I think it is very realistic to implement and not effect players that don’t care about their DPS.

Seera.5916:

Draknar.5748:

calyx.9086:

Dusty Moon.4382:

No and No. People are complaining that the game is getting Elitist and this would only make it worse.

It’s only becoming more elitist because most of the GW2 population consists of kitten poor players wearing PVT and Clerics who whine over and over about how they are just playing how they want aka playing like crap.

Yes because gear is what makes you a good player versus a bad player….riiiight. Unless you honestly believe that if you are in zerker gear there’s absolutely no way you could play like crap. I’m sure many here would disagree with you quite a bit.

I run a PVT guardian w/ clerics trinkets in most dungeons (have cleared every dungeon every path and at this point up to FoTM43, without any issue). I’ve yet to whine about anything. If I want an 8min CoF run, I’ll hop on my zerker warrior and look for speedrun groups (but only if they only need 1 more person already). If I’m OK with a 13min CoF run, I’ll stick with my guardian.

I’ve been trying to take note of times to fulfill groups for speedruns versus casuals, and honestly the last couple of groups I’ve been in that wanted zerker only (and typically warriors), it has taken ~10min minutes of us standing around to get an acceptable group together (acceptable to the group leader, thus me only joining speedruns if they need 1 more, not gonna just stand around). Compared to my “casual” groups (which basically means bring any gear you want) that fill up within 30secs. My casual group would be practically done with the CoF p1 run before the zerker “speedrun” group even starts. Just seems like a complete waste of time, especially since the whole point of speedrunning is quick dungeon turn-around, not necessarily running the dungeon fastest. You want to be able to finish X number of dungeons in Y time. If you have to wait a bunch of time in between each to get a group together, then what are you really accomplishing?

Those truly into speed running tend to have groups of their own and don’t pug it.

Exactly. I was just speaking in general, I never pug dungeons, it’s always with specific guildies we have recruited to run dungeons with. Every once in a while we might only have four players in one of our groups and we’ll post for a 5th pug, and that always tends to fill really fast.

Scrambles.2604:

Your solution (group with like minded players) would actually mitigate any issue caused by a group wide DPS meter.

I said in the first place that you could just ask people, but you are sacrificing accessibility, accuracy, and increasing the burden on other players to respond to your requests, in order to cater to players that don’t have any interest joining optimal groups in the first place.

Honestly, you could just do the same thing that was suggested in the duel thread: Add it as an opt-in Gem Store feature. That way, there is a real barrier to entry and a legitimate excuse for not having the DPS meter, while making it accessible to those that would enjoy using it.

I am not so worried about what the current min/maxes are doing. I am more worried about what regular Joe player would do with a DPS meter so no group with like minded player would not work if group-wide DPS meters would be released as a lot more people would be using them.

If you can come up with a good situation where group-wide DPS meters are needed I would be happy to consider changing my stance. Personally I don’t see a valid one.

The only valid one I have heard was compare yourself against other players to improve your play. The problem is comparing yourself against other players can go two ways. One way is for your own improvement. The other way is to put down, insult, force improvement on others or to tout your own horn. I am fine for self improvement. Grouping with like minded players solve that problem. Having personal meters and asking other players will solve that problem.

If group DPS meters were released there will be far more put downs,insults,forcing improvement or people putting themselves on a pedestal. This does not encourage friendly play. This is the reason why I am confident that group DPS meters will never be in game. I also agree that they should not be.

I do not approve of the gem store method as I think their development time should be spent on something that helps the majority of the playerbase.

Personal DPS meters I am ok we already sortof have them in the from of a combat log. If they allowed a API to pull everything from the combat log including what drop you get and allow chat with guilds I would be happy. Then players can make their own DPS meters. A group DPS meter would also be possible but not in a way that would effect the majority of the playerbase. Reason why it would not effect the wide playerbase is it would be a out of game tool developed by a 3rd party that players would have to go look for. If you like that idea then post in the following threads:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/Personal-damage-meter-API

I was going to comment that we already have a personal DPS meter if you check out the combat log. Not efficient in a dungeon but take it into the mists on PvP practice and watch your log to see if you’re getting the numbers you want. Anzenketh beat me to that.
And don’t forget that with the trait change it’s not just gear that will slow the dungeon parties down. New players that haven’t unlocked their traits will be slowing these groups down too. So don’t forget it’s no longer just the gear.
I just don’t see the positive in adding these things to this game. If you are of the mind to max stats and DPS then build a guild around this mind set and invite others with a like mind.

Scrambles.2604:

Honestly, you could just do the same thing that was suggested in the duel thread: Add it as an opt-in Gem Store feature. That way, there is a real barrier to entry and a legitimate excuse for not having the DPS meter, while making it accessible to those that would enjoy using it.

As much as I dislike the idea of game features in the store in a B2P game, this idea has some merit. The biggest problem for dedicated groups – whether they be efficiency or laissez-faire — is joiners who don’t respect the group’s preferences. A gem store add-on DPS meter and even /inspect enable would at least solve the problem for the efficiency people. Now if we could also buy a dipstick detector, it would be perfect.

Infernia.9847:

I was going to comment that we already have a personal DPS meter if you check out the combat log. Not efficient in a dungeon but take it into the mists on PvP practice and watch your log to see if you’re getting the numbers you want. Anzenketh beat me to that.
And don’t forget that with the trait change it’s not just gear that will slow the dungeon parties down. New players that haven’t unlocked their traits will be slowing these groups down too. So don’t forget it’s no longer just the gear.
I just don’t see the positive in adding these things to this game. If you are of the mind to max stats and DPS then build a guild around this mind set and invite others with a like mind.

I think the problem that PvE players have with the mists and this option is it takes into account your PvP gear not your PvE gear.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

Honestly, you could just do the same thing that was suggested in the duel thread: Add it as an opt-in Gem Store feature. That way, there is a real barrier to entry and a legitimate excuse for not having the DPS meter, while making it accessible to those that would enjoy using it.

As much as I dislike the idea of game features in the store in a B2P game, this idea has some merit. The biggest problem for dedicated groups – whether they be efficiency or laissez-faire — is joiners who don’t respect the group’s preferences. A gem store add-on DPS meter and even /inspect enable would at least solve the problem for the efficiency people. Now if we could also buy a dipstick detector, it would be perfect.

Problem with that it is not OPT in for the player you are reading the damage on. Please see my previous post for why that is important.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

Honestly, you could just do the same thing that was suggested in the duel thread: Add it as an opt-in Gem Store feature. That way, there is a real barrier to entry and a legitimate excuse for not having the DPS meter, while making it accessible to those that would enjoy using it.

As much as I dislike the idea of game features in the store in a B2P game, this idea has some merit. The biggest problem for dedicated groups – whether they be efficiency or laissez-faire — is joiners who don’t respect the group’s preferences. A gem store add-on DPS meter and even /inspect enable would at least solve the problem for the efficiency people. Now if we could also buy a dipstick detector, it would be perfect.

I understand the dislike for the Gem store. I haven’t spent anything in the gem store, i just buy stuff with gold.

I don’t really see a difference between buying something like a commander tag for 100g, or converting 100g to gems to buy a DPS meter. As long as you can convert money to gold, everything in this game is B2P, regardless of if it’s sold by a vendor or in the Gem store.

anzenketh.3759:

Problem with that it is not OPT in for the player you are reading the damage on. Please see my previous post for why that is important.

Ideally you couldn’t view someone else’s DPS unless they also got the Gem store feature. Otherwise my suggestion would be kind of pointless, haha.

Edit; I think the fear of being put down for being at the bottom of the DPS charts is irrational and overstated. Someone will ALWAYS be at the bottom of the DPS charts, even if they did everything right. No one cares what the charts show if the run is going smoothly. You will only be called out if you are making mistakes that are making it difficult for others, things that are noticeable without a DPS meter and still don’t even happen that often.

The people you are worried about are the small percentage of players that will harass you regardless of the context. We see more and more now that these players exist everywhere and not just in the context of a suggested feature you don’t like.