Guild Wars 2

I’m coming a bit late to the party, but I first wanted to get a large enough sample to really evaluate the new system. For the record, personally, I engage in most aspects of the game, except fractals and dungeons.

Having studied it for a few weeks, let me say I am completely underwhelmed.

In the old system, whatever playstyle you favored, you could get your dailies done. I would have enjoyed a few more PVP / WvW specific options, but the general options for skill points, levelling, recycling, gathering (not PVP), kills etc. worked everywhere, whatever I chose to do. There was a LOT more variety available. The main thing being YOU COULD JUST PLAY THE GAME.

And now we get the new system… which pretty much forces us to go do stuff the developers want us to do, because they think certain areas are undervisited. Or something.

What is the flaw in this? Wellll…. for one thing, it feels like the devs are trying to hold my hand (again) trying to say ‘look poor child, you forgot about this zone/activity’.

It apparently did not occur to them that when you have multiple 80s with full world unlock, there might be a REASON if you don’t go to certain zones much, or avoid certain activities. Am I not allowed to have favorites?

And for new players, the new system is blatantly painful. Exotic crafter? Seriously? A real new player will not have the cash to grind up crafting to that point in a hurry. Fractals? That’s an 80s only activity. And having that TWICE on one day is just poisonous. Going to different racial areas to complete mining/lumbering/gathering/events/vistas? Don’t know about that one. Some people enjoy wandering around. Then again, you have people like me too, and I pretty much stuck to my native Norn zones, because I liked the landscapes and the story. Didn’t really bother much with the other racial zones until level 60 or so. Knew they were there, but didn’t feel pressured to actually go there. Which, frankly, is as it should be in my opinion.

And let’s not forget how FUN it is to do an event on a lowbie when there’s a herd of 80s trying to do THEIR dailies. Not getting credit, getting called a noob when you complain about not getting credit… it’s amazing really.

As to the PVP options… they are pretty limited for a new player. Two options for [profession x winner] and [profession y winner]. What if you don’t HAVE profession x or y yet, but just the one character you really want to learn how to play? With a profession that comes up maybe once every 4-5 days? That’s actually not limited to new players… I’m frankly horrible on my guardian in PVP. So for me at least, this one doesn’t feel like an option, it feels like pot-luck. If my favorite PVP class is there, I get credit. If not, well, too bad. Again.

The rewards for logging in… it’s enough to make me shake my head in disgust. Yes, by all means, reward people for showing their face for 1 minute and log out again. And then some of the reward types…two tomes of knowledge today. One of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen in a game. Yes, by all means, let everyone level even faster, so we have more 80s without a clue on how to actually play their class (not talking about uber metas, I’m talking about basic stuff, like Mesmers who only use Greatsword 1 when fighting) and without any knowledge of game mechanics. Seriously, I’m not saying every level should take a week, but 1 level an hour in regular PVE is insanely fast already, and don’t get me started about EOTM. Why oh why increase that?

On the whole, I think the new system is unfun, unfair to newer players, and one more step into babying down the game. Which is, in my opinion, the worst way to go.

Liz.1497:

Subdue.5479:

That’s not a list of things you can’t do now, it’s a list of mundane stuff you want to be incrementally rewarded for in addition to the intrinsic reward for doing the stuff.

So basically, what it boils down to is, you think you should be given a small AP reward for every mundane activity you do, rather than be expected to complete 3 out of 12 relatively simple tasks for an even greater reward, even though those tasks would often take you no more than 5-10 minutes, if that?

Got it, we’re on the same page now.

It took you en entire thread to figure out that that is what people wanted? That is exactly what people who want the old system back, miss. Before you go around acting like this is lazy and entitled, let me remind you that a) the old system was specifically designed for exactly this purpose (as in, to get people to log in and play some every day), so it’s not like people are asking for something that is totally unlike the game and unreasonable, and b) the people who like the new system like that its faster and you get more rewards for doing less, effectively making them “entitled and lazy”.

A. That aspect of the daily has been moved to the login rewards.

B. You can call it what you want, it doesn’t change that the system is better for players who are willing to adapt. Like you said, it’s faster and more rewarding, and beyond that, it’s more geared for getting people to move around the content.

Take example the daily event, today was Gandarent Field or whatever, went there and sooooooo many people were there, everytime i try to do an event i get there its finished already! took me like 1 hour and half just to get 4 events done, cos i couldn’t find any!!!! they were either done when i get there or bugged……. this system is terrible! it felt like there’s hardly any events going on! and 4 events shouldn’t take 1 hour and half to complete!

Mayko.1289:

Take example the daily event, today was Gandarent Field or whatever, went there and sooooooo many people were there, everytime i try to do an event i get there its finished already! took me like 1 hour and half just to get 4 events done, cos i couldn’t find any!!!! they were either done when i get there or bugged……. this system is terrible! it felt like there’s hardly any events going on! and 4 events shouldn’t take 1 hour and half to complete!

So… do a different daily?

PvP?

WvW?

Subdue.5479:

Mayko.1289:

Take example the daily event, today was Gandarent Field or whatever, went there and sooooooo many people were there, everytime i try to do an event i get there its finished already! took me like 1 hour and half just to get 4 events done, cos i couldn’t find any!!!! they were either done when i get there or bugged……. this system is terrible! it felt like there’s hardly any events going on! and 4 events shouldn’t take 1 hour and half to complete!

So… do a different daily?

PvP?

WvW?

i dont pvp or wvw, only got time for pve daily…. lets see today’s daily, craft an exotic, nope too expensive, shiver peak miner ok thats good, kryta vista ok thats also good… 4 events in Gandraent Field….. well i kind of have to do it but omg how did bloody took 1 hour n half just to get 4 events done!

sometimes i don’t have time do play the game just login for 15 min and get the daily. but this new daily system forces u to play for hours just to get dailies done and a lot less choice!

I haven’t logged on yet for today’s dailies, but you had 2/3. I’m just going to assume one of the PvP ones was win or something like that, maybe capture a point or defend one, get some rank points. And then the WvW one could be cap a sentry or kill a yak or something. Also pretty ready. Hop onto EotM for the sentry or a BL for the yak. But again, I haven’t been on, don’t know what the dailies actually are. But that hour and a half you devoted to finding 4 events could’ve been devoted to 10 minutes in WvW or PvP. You did only need one for the actually daily.

Mayko.1289:

craft an exotic, nope too expensive,

Just craft an exotic essence of luck.

Subdue.5479:

i dont pvp or wvw, only got time for pve daily…. lets see today’s daily, craft an exotic, nope too expensive, shiver peak miner ok thats good, kryta vista ok thats also good… 4 events in Gandraent Field….. well i kind of have to do it but omg how did bloody took 1 hour n half just to get 4 events done!

sometimes i don’t have time do play the game just login for 15 min and get the daily. but this new daily system forces u to play for hours just to get dailies done and a lot less choice!

Crafting exotic tools for backpacks isn’t expensive.

In the Gendarran Fields you can just park yourself somewhere with many relatively quickly repeating events like Junction Haven (two events, three if you check the caves for the champion, four if you check the road for the escort) or the centaur events in the western half of the map.

Edit: Today’s WvW dailies that are practically PvE: Kill 5 guards, disrupt one caravan.

I love the new daily system.

For example, now it is [Insert Random Holiday Name Of Your Choice] time. I am not home. I am on a bad wi-fi connection. So what I can do is log on, claim the goodies, log out.

But the reason why I love the new dailies is different.

Earlier, when I logged on I was like “ok… condition remover; 1 WvW camp, 5 feasts… need TP, reviver WHY!!! stupid asuras to res…” and it was something like that. A set of boring, unimaginative tasks to do because I need my laurels. I mean, there was NO interesting daily there.

Why did it suck? It was a mere, boring checklist. As I am playing GW2 since the day 3 after the beta ended, I know how to do it fast. But this is EXACTLY going out of my way for a laurel and some other thingies. No choice here. I am disempowered, shackled, even!

Now?

I get the reward for logging in. Furthermore, I can CHOOSE to do something which will give me bonuses. If I WvW (most of the time I am roaming in WvW) I will get extra WExp -> more WvW chests and ranks. If I decide to go out of my way and do a vista, I get some experience points. A reward for doing something I wouldn’t, usually.

Point being, new dailies give us additional rewards for doing something ELSE. And as daily achievements are capped anyway, you don’t lose out forever if you don’t do it one day or two. Besides, note:

- earlier: you had to do 2 ‘general’, 3 ‘pve’, 3 ‘spvp’, 2 ‘wvw’ achievements for 10 APs (no idea about those numbers here). So for 10 APs you had to go seriously out of your way.
- now: you have to do 3 out of 4, 4, 4. And no matter how many you choose, you get 10 APs. Less going out of my way . More choice :-).

In the old system if you did not go out of your way, you had like 5-7 APs / day. So even with the odd “I can’t do the dailies now”, in 10 days of old system you would have 50-70 APs. In new system, to get 70 APs you need to do daily only 7 days out of 10. AND on top of that you get some tomes of knowledge, experience, WExp… what’s not to like? More choice and more rewards (APs, loot).

In my opinion 3/4 is a good system. Sure, things like “fractal and fractal” are in my opinion a mistake (I would vastly prefer them to be be randomized from the buckets like Open World (gathering, vista, events), Grouped (Dungeon Story, Dungeon Explorable, Fractal, current Living Story), Boss, Other)

I also don’t like “win as class X” in sPvP dailies, but the mere fact you have to do any 3 out of 12 means the new dailies are not prohibitive.

If they changed the number to 5-5-5, let’s see:

PvE: 5 buckets with 2-3 picks from Open World
sPvP: capture point, defend point, win as class X * 3?
WvW: players, sentry, dolyak, camp, tower, keep, defense.

Note how you pick 5 out of [many] in PvE, 5 out of distinct 3 in sPvP (probably more?) and 5 out of 7 (or any other low number) in WvW. To make that possible, there would have to be more categories in sPvP and WvW. Before it happens, you would have like Season3 of WvW every day in dailies. What would Season4 do then? ;-).

Additionally, note the dailies’ rewards are not equal. Taking a keep gives better stuff than taking a sentry. This fifth pick would have to be from the “low reward” category, right? Otherwise it will be the “hard” one. So it is about APs, not rewards, correct?

On top -they might reduce the rewards from dailies, as you would be able to do 15 now, not 12. And PvE rewards are – for me – once again better than WvW ones :P (sorry, I want experience and skill scrolls slightly more than 150 – 300 WExp). So to get the best stuff I have to go out of my way again! OMG Anet! Why do you do this to me! (answer: because I can still do it, nobody throws cats at me whenever I approach the vista on my poor mesmer).

If they added “dodger, condition remover” they would have to assign almost no reward to it. Because it is completely automatic. You WILL do it, no matter what you do. So when I read people want ones like these, a genuine question: how does this differ from wanting 10 APs for logging on? How does it promote anything? What purpose does something like that serve?

In conclusion – new dailies are far superior from old ones, in my eyes. Both in CHOICE department (I can do something for rewards and I can elect NOT to do something and skip rewards while I got my laurel progression), in FAIRNESS department (the same amount of picks for all game modes) and in REWARDS department (more stuff -> better, right?). There are some small things which would gain a lot from refining (fractals, fractals? :P), but they are just small things.

Besides, it reminds me of Zaishen Missions.

So, here’s my Feedback. And I do have Glamour Mastery trait.

Have fun and Happy [Random Holiday Of Choice]. Say, Happy Day Of Purring Catmancers.

Crafting an exotic is free if you have an artificer at 100 or higher. Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

Vayne.8563:

Crafting an exotic is free if you have an artificer at 100 or higher. Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

You can craft the exotic lucks with 0 in artificer.

Edit:

Craft enough luck and your artificer will reach ~ 28 or so.

So . . . you’re mad that others are getting to an event before you can? And it’s unfair? You know you can wait in certain areas for said events to occur . . . right?

I just now finished my dailies in PvE. This included most of the Wintersday ones. Didn’t do snowball fight or jumping puzzle. Did the Fields last.

Took me, maybe, fifteen minutes? I’m not sure because I decided to craft backpacks for their skins since I crafted jeweling tools for my masterwork daily. Just getting them out of the way to add more skins for the wardrobe achievement.

. . .

Why is this a new trend on the boards lately?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

So . . . you’re mad that others are getting to an event before you can? And it’s unfair? You know you can wait in certain areas for said events to occur . . . right?

I just now finished my dailies in PvE. This included most of the Wintersday ones. Didn’t do snowball fight or jumping puzzle. Did the Fields last.

Took me, maybe, fifteen minutes? I’m not sure before I decided to craft backpacks for their skins since I crafted jeweling tools for my masterwork daily.

. . .

Why is this a new trend on the boards lately?

Eh, I would say the events could use some work. The problem is that they’re not designed to scale with the numbers that are attempting to do them. It’s one thing to say you should get to the events faster. It’s another to say you should have a ground targeted aoe pre-placed where the mob will spawn if you want any chance of tagging it to get credit.

This, however, is not a problem with the daily. It’s more a problem with event scaling, and it’s a problem that A.Net already knows how to fix, as it doesn’t become an issue in the new maps like Drytop and Silver Wastes.

Mayko, unfortunately, the amount of people blindly defending this new system, who are not willing to admit that the system changed to a worse way for other people with other playstyles, and agreeing that pointless grind which makes players hate each other (<Map> Events and <Profession> Wins, looking at you) is good, is surprisingly high, as you can see from the recently renamed ‘I dislike the new dailies’ thread. The game overall is changing, and unsurprisingly, the amount of players who are content with being spoonfed and given pet tricks to perform for tasty treats, is rising.

Vayne.8563:

Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

Oh… so now players are required to have divine knowledge of the best “exploits” to efficiently fight the pigeonholing dailies?

I ran into Gendarran Fields today with a level 28 character to do the events, and it took me my best knowledge of the profession to be able to tag kills and earn event participation – which a couple times I didn’t, and other times died because the events got upscaled for hordes of lvl 80s. Is it also the “knowledge” we’re speaking of?

Subdue.5479:

This, however, is not a problem with the daily. It’s more a problem with event scaling, and it’s a problem that A.Net already knows how to fix, as it doesn’t become an issue in the new maps like Drytop and Silver Wastes.

Oh come on. Now it’s not scaling to your liking? Now we’re saying here that things are too easy because they don’t scale? Another threads says an event is too hard because it does. What are you people?

The Goldilocks of MMOs?

Sit your butt in an area where an event repeats with regularity. Problem solved.

Mayko.1289:

Take example the daily event, today was Gandarent Field or whatever, went there and sooooooo many people were there, everytime i try to do an event i get there its finished already! took me like 1 hour and half just to get 4 events done, cos i couldn’t find any!!!! they were either done when i get there or bugged……. this system is terrible! it felt like there’s hardly any events going on! and 4 events shouldn’t take 1 hour and half to complete!

What Subdue said. Do a different daily. Exotic crafter is insanely easy, cheap and profitable.

If they’re all “too hard” for you, don’t complete your daily at all. It’s 100% optional, and only rewards 10 AP.

Play how you want. Make your own choices. Don’t blame the game if you can’t.

Gendarran was indeed a terrible one. Perhaps hearts should also count as events for this. To prefend zergs.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Subdue.5479:

This, however, is not a problem with the daily. It’s more a problem with event scaling, and it’s a problem that A.Net already knows how to fix, as it doesn’t become an issue in the new maps like Drytop and Silver Wastes.

Oh come on. Now it’s not scaling to your liking? Now we’re saying here that things are too easy because they don’t scale? Another threads says an event is too hard because it does. What are you people?

The Goldilocks of MMOs?

Sit your butt in an area where an event repeats with regularity. Problem solved.

That’s not the problem. When you have 20 people in a zerg that each do 100 damage, and the enemy has 1000 HP, 10 people are not going to tag the enemy. That’s quite contrary to A.Net’s philosophy of making it beneficial to help other players out.

Also, I don’t think there are any threads saying the open world events are too hard to complete.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Mayko, unfortunately, the amount of people blindly defending this new system, who are not willing to admit that the system changed to a worse way for other people with other playstyles, and agreeing that pointless grind which makes players hate each other (<Map> Events and <Profession> Wins, looking at you) is good, is surprisingly high, as you can see from the recently renamed ‘I dislike the new dailies’ thread. The game overall is changing, and unsurprisingly, the amount of players who are content with being spoonfed and given pet tricks to perform for tasty treats, is rising.

Vayne.8563:

Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

Oh… so now players are required to have divine knowledge of the best “exploits” to efficiently fight the pigeonholing dailies?

I ran into Gendarran Fields today with a level 28 character to do the events, and it took me my best knowledge of the profession to be able to tag kills and earn event participation – which a couple times I didn’t, and other times died because the events got upscaled for hordes of lvl 80s. Is it also the “knowledge” we’re speaking of?

I’m sorry. Did you just call crafting an essence of luck “divine knowledge”. Because it sounds a lot like what you were saying, so yeah.

I player who believes that crafting an exotic is expensive has made a mistake. But not only is it free to craft an exotic, and not only can you do it from level 0 on artificer, but it also rewards 3 ectos.

So now, by learning this, the next time that daily comes up, this person will know.

However, this isn’t some hidden, arcane, super knowledge known only to the select few. It’s been posted in quite a few threads. It’s something anyone can ask about.

Learning the game is part of playing the game. That’s true for any MMO.

I do believe today players expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, but complaining about dailies on a day with a free one with such a great payoff is just poor. I read the title of this thread, and it’s over stated with an exclamation mark.

Before posting something so directly aggressive, one might check the facts.

Bell Choir is too hard to complete is what they’re saying. It doesn’t scale because the other players can’t help you, if you can believe that.

If that’s the case, as far as too many players, find another quest? One not surrounded by people? Wait to do it when the zone isn’t saturated with players all trying to get it done? Maybe group with those people? Those are just three ways, off the cuff, to fix this so-called problem.

Let’s not even go into ANet’s past philosophy please. Given the radical changes since the start, I think that’s a whole ’nother topic.

One of the Gendarran events had major scaling issues, where only 3 to 4 rock dogs would spawn for what seemed like 200 people. People were complaining afterwards that they did not get credit as they others melted the rock dogs in 1/1000 of a second. Yet one event is causing people to rally for it and they can not participate with it since it appears to lock you out once you have completed it. Over near the Snowblind waypoint the group battle pit.
If Anet is gonna take away the ability to choose more options to complete the daily then maybe go back over some of these old events and fix them so they do not cause problems such as the ones I listed. Possibly having the events spawn more times than usual if they are in the daily list. Maybe even add, dare I say it, some new events to spawn. After all it supposed to be a living world isn’kitten

One thing I noticed also is people come into the map and as soon as they arrive they ask “events?”. We are all looking for them just look on the map and see if a commander has a tag on most are linking the location and/or the waypoint as they find them. If you find one you too can also link to help rally people.

Vayne.8563:

Crafting an exotic is free if you have an artificer at 100 or higher. Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

Well, to be truthful that does not look like it was intended. Just as i’m sure doing vistas in racial cities were not intended for zone vista viever dailies (esp. since those cities are not mentioned in daily info).
When presented with a daily, an average player’s reaction is not to look for an exploit or loophole to “easymode” it. If the dailies are there indeed to interest people in diverse activities, and if indeed the system was changed because Anet was dissatisfied by people going at previous ones by the path of least resistance, then the very fact they not only can be easymoded now, but that you think it should be the default approach shows, that the new system failed spectacularly.

We don’t want to be forced to do other gamemodes we dislike to finish our dailies. It’s as simple as that, so for the love of god stop suggesting people to do something they don’t want to do >_>

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Bell Choir is too hard to complete is what they’re saying. It doesn’t scale because the other players can’t help you, if you can believe that.

If that’s the case, as far as too many players, find another quest? One not surrounded by people? Wait to do it when the zone isn’t saturated with players all trying to get it done? Maybe group with those people? Those are just three ways, off the cuff, to fix this so-called problem.

Let’s not even go into ANet’s past philosophy please. Given the radical changes since the start, I think that’s a whole ’nother topic.

…You do realize once a train has started, it’s possible to clear every event in a zone and end up waiting for the next one to restart, right?

And yes, people could “wait until the area is less saturated, or choose another option.” Those are very really choices. However, people should choose to do or not do various dailies based on whether or not they want to do them, not based on an oversight by A.Net.

Also, while a lot has changed in the game, that particular part of A.Net’s design philosophy has been very consistent. It’s built into the drop tables, and it’s built into the way experience is distributed.

It’s one thing to disagree with someone’s complaint and state a reason for why the change would not be beneficial. It’s completely different to be argumentative just to be argumentative. You’ve actually not stated why you think scaling on the events shouldn’t be adjusted to accommodate the larger populations that A.Net has intentionally driven into the zones; you’ve just covered your ears, shook your head, and chanted, “Nope nope nope…”

Subdue.5479:

B. You can call it what you want, it doesn’t change that the system is better for players who are willing to adapt.

The system in general is better. The new daily achievements aren’t. I have problem specifically with the achievements.

Subdue.5479:

Like you said, it’s faster and more rewarding, and beyond that, it’s more geared for getting people to move around the content.

And i am saying that the second art is not a good thing. Yes, it makes people move around more. It doesn’t however make that other parts of content any more fun than before. If people didn’t think them fun earlier, they still won’t. Any system that moves people around without addressing that point will only make it so that the people will spend less time in parts they consider fun, and more in parts they don’t consider fun, which will lessen their overall enjoyment of the game and will increase chances of them leaving.

Irxallis.7350:

Why did it suck? It was a mere, boring checklist.

Well, that part has not changed. Except now it is a boring checklist you can’t do by playing naturally (well, at least not in PvE).

My two cents, the new daily’s are complete bs, I liked it the other way much better.

Subdue.5479:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Bell Choir is too hard to complete is what they’re saying. It doesn’t scale because the other players can’t help you, if you can believe that.

If that’s the case, as far as too many players, find another quest? One not surrounded by people? Wait to do it when the zone isn’t saturated with players all trying to get it done? Maybe group with those people? Those are just three ways, off the cuff, to fix this so-called problem.

Let’s not even go into ANet’s past philosophy please. Given the radical changes since the start, I think that’s a whole ’nother topic.

…You do realize once a train has started, it’s possible to clear every event in a zone and end up waiting for the next one to restart, right?

And yes, people could “wait until the area is less saturated, or choose another option.” Those are very really choices. However, people should choose to do or not do various dailies based on whether or not they want to do them, not based on an oversight by A.Net.

Also, while a lot has changed in the game, that particular part of A.Net’s design philosophy has been very consistent. It’s built into the drop tables, and it’s built into the way experience is distributed.

It’s one thing to disagree with someone’s complaint and state a reason for why the change would not be beneficial. It’s completely different to be argumentative just to be argumentative. You’ve actually not stated why you think scaling on the events shouldn’t be adjusted to accommodate the larger populations that A.Net has intentionally driven into the zones; you’ve just covered your ears, shook your head, and chanted, “Nope nope nope…”

Are we saying the train has taken all the events in the daily zone now? So, there’s no way to complete them? Again, did mine in less than fifteen minutes. People were calling events out too. No one else in the zone was shedding tears.

No, that can’t be it.

Okay, waiting for an event to start is unrealistic because that’s an oversight on ANet’s part. Because, heaven forbid, you have 24-hours to do the thing. Surely, it doesn’t have to be done now, now, now. Does it?

No, making people wait to do a daily is wrong too.

Okay, maybe there aren’t enough events in a zone? Hmmm. Seems everyone is getting them done within a timely manner. Maybe an hour for some. Maybe two? Most seem to be done in fifteen minutes or less. Just four events, right? But, I guess that’s too long of a wait and too many to do for a thing that lasts 24-hours. Instant gratification must be met.

Yes, the new daily for PvE is terrible because you can’t get it done instantly. Therefore, it’s ANet’s fault for now seeing this. So shortsighted. And against their philosophy.

. . .

I trust you are getting my point?

If there’s a problem, you’ll find I’ll be one of the first to say so. If the problem is within the game. But if the problem is feeding a players’ need for instant gratification? Because something took a little more time and effort to complete? Well, please do call me argumentative. Because that’s straight up babying the player-base.

Really didn’t think I needed to spell all that out, but I didn’t think we needed to spoon-feed posters the obvious either given the thread’s topic.

Silly, I know.

Just a friendly Public Service Announcement:
“Don’t Feed The Trolls”

On topic – No one is asking for things to be reverted back to where PvP and WvW had less options than PvE. I think we’d all prefer more options for everyone.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Save up 20 fine essences of luck. Grab a character with Artificer at 0. Refine luck up to exotic. Receive 3 ectoplasm. Not hard, great pay-off.

The average player who either isn’t a crafter or who only crafts on one or two characters looks at “Exotic” as the level under “Ascended” and therefore a very high level of crafting. And if they aren’t a crafter or only craft on one character to make bags or whatever they aren’t likely to know that Artificers are the only profession that comes with Exotic crafting at level 0.

And how do you get ectos from that?

fracture.9754:

Let’s see…

Daily Shiverpeaks Miner – took me 2 minutes.

Daily Kryta Vista Viewer – took me 20 seconds (Queensdale Shaemoor Garrison vista – right next to a WP, you only climb a flight of stairs).

Craft an exotic – you can craft exotic essence of luck for 0 gold with Artificer level 0. I crafted a bolt of damask, sold it for PROFIT. Took me 1 minute.

Total: 3 minutes and 20 seconds with ~8G profit while completing daily (some mats I already had, some I bought). THEN I received the reward from it. Seems fine to me.

See my comment above about easymoding the dailies. If you consider easymoding them to be a default approach, then they have already failed.

Ayrilana.1396:

Elden Arnaas.4870:

I mean, more choices is better than less, but if you’re going to fix it, why not fix it right? – More choices, less specificity.(for all game modes)

You mean more choices that can be completed easily.

Why do you assume that’s what we mean? The old dailies had “Kill 40 mobs” or whatever. What we object to is being limited in our open-PvE choices AND being given specific maps instead of choosing where we want to play. And no one said we wanted only easy stuff.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Djinn.9245:

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Carighan.6758:

You don’t lose out by ignoring it. It’s purely additive, it gives something more than the activity it encourages you to do already gives on its own.

They subtracted old dailies to create this new system. If old dailies were part of how you played — that is gone. The way old dailies integrated into casual pve is gone.

I’m not complaining about how new dailies are implemented. I’m complaining about what got paved over to produce them. To me, this is just like Traits all over..

Exactly.

Not exactly.

Traits are far more screwed than this.

Well yes, this is true. I think we meant the process of removing choice and railroading in general.

@ Ardenwolfe:

K, I’m going to step back and ask you a simple question:

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

Astralporing.1957:

See my comment above about easymoding the dailies. If you consider easymoding them to be a default approach, then they have already failed.

I’m getting the impression, from threads like this, it is a failure. As someone wisely pointed out in another thread, the Wintersday dailies have you, literally, clicking a pile of snow five times, giving Ho-Ho-Tron a copper, opening five presents, and throwing three snowballs.

These are considered achievements now.

And yet, the one daily that requires some effort, we’ve seen countless tears and threads about.

It’s very telling.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Why not…

• Complete five events
• Gather a certain amount
• Complete an explorable/story path in a dungeon
• Complete a full fractal run
• Daily activity participation
• Defeat a world/temple boss
• Defeat 50 enemies
• Complete three jumping puzzles
• Complete a personal story instance

Oh, those were the old dailies…

Yes, but . . . a lot of them were just . . . gah. Also, there were lots others which would cycle in, so it wasn’t exactly a static list. There was a small list of “hand-holding” ones which just were bizarre and easy 1AP. (“Daily Laurel Vendor”?)

Still think the idea I put forth before could work better than this, even if it would draw all sorts of complaints.

Why the constraints? Why not let the people decide for themselves where they like to play?

Because a good number of people don’t decide for themselves, they just follow whatever is easiest and rush through it. This is why zergs exist and bust the scaling mechanics everywhere they go – it’s the path of absolute least resistance.

Except that these new directed-play dailies don’t help this problem. Now I MUST go to Brisbane for events. And I often can’t even get to an event I see on the map before its completed already by the huge zerg which includes several geared doritos with legendaries.

Subdue.5479:

@ Ardenwolfe:

K, I’m going to step back and ask you a simple question:

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

Let me ask you a simple question. Has the scaling prevented you from completing the 4-event daily?

Please lump the PvE dailies onto one map. The old dailies were nice because they would just happen as you play but now we have to jump all over the map and it feels super artificial. If the view a vista\complete events\harvest\ect were all placed on one map we could go there and play naturally.

Olvendred.3027:

It’s 100% optional, and only rewards 10 AP.

When people massively start using “it’s optional” as an argument in game discussions, you know something is going really wrong.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Crafting an exotic is free if you have an artificer at 100 or higher. Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.

Well, to be truthful that does not look like it was intended. Just as i’m sure doing vistas in racial cities were not intended for zone vista viever dailies (esp. since those cities are not mentioned in daily info).
When presented with a daily, an average player’s reaction is not to look for an exploit or loophole to “easymode” it. If the dailies are there indeed to interest people in diverse activities, and if indeed the system was changed because Anet was dissatisfied by people going at previous ones by the path of least resistance, then the very fact they not only can be easymoded now, but that you think it should be the default approach shows, that the new system failed spectacularly.

^ this. The last thing a normal (“casual”) player with 1 character with 2 started disciplines is thinking of is checking all exotic items in all disciplines in Wiki, rolling a new character today, buying enough stuff from TP, salvaging it and starting Artificer to get the daily.

• “Events?” spam in map chat and zergs killing mobs in seconds,
• same easiest vistas (sometimes with portals),
• linked WPs with most wood/ore/plants nodes,
• “Craft exotic essence of luck for free” PSAs,
• same profession matches in PvP,
• AFKers in hot-join,
• mob taggers in WvW

are all the symptoms of this new daily system: players feel forced, do it because they do not want to miss the reward and not because they enjoy doing it, and as a result seek for easiest ways to “exploit” the system. I don’t want to exploit the game; I want to do meaningful stuff and get rewarded for meaningful stuff, and not for doing pet tricks or finding the fastest way to not play the game but get the reward. While you’re saying that knowing how to exploit the system is the most important part of the new system… and if it’s true, what does it say about the system then?

Telling people to “get over it”, “don’t do it”, “it’s optional” is not an answer. It’s not a solution. It’s simply an excuse… and when these excuses are weaved into screwed logic just for the sake of defending (especially with a “Ha-ha, eat it!” grin on the face), it obviously leads to aggressive reactions.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Let me ask you a simple question. Has the scaling prevented you from completing the 4-event daily?

• Gendarran Rock Dog event: yes, my zone-level character couldn’t kill anything because mobs melted in seconds.
• Gendarran Nebo Terrace event: elite upscaled tramplers kill low-level characters by looking at them.
• Gendarran Cave event: by the time I was there everything was killed.
• Gendarran Escort event: mobs melt.

Working as intended?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Subdue.5479:

@ Ardenwolfe:

K, I’m going to step back and ask you a simple question:

What do you feel would be the downside to improving the scaling of events to more appropriately match the number of players working on said events?

Let me ask you a simple question. Has the scaling prevented you from completing the 4-event daily?

Your question is very telling. Are you of the viewpoint that because the daily can be completed, despite the unnecessarily negative experience it has on those doing it, that it shouldn’t be improved? I certainly hope you don’t take this approach on anything, because that’s exactly how you end up with mediocrity.

To answer your question though, in a way yes. I view it as a negative experience, and so I just skip it all together and do a different daily. The rewards associated with it are actually fine, and I’d consider doing it were this glaring oversight not an issue. I often do more than 3 dailies each day, depending on whether or not I like them and the reward they give. For example, today, I actually completed five of them, the last 2 just for the reward.

To give you an analogy on the situation though: Consider a virus on your computer, and all the virus did was slow your computer down to 50% of its expected capacity. You could still do everything you want on your computer, but everything would be slower, and some things would crash occasionally. You’ve seen the issue before, and know that simply installing an antivirus and scanning your computer would fix the issue. Would you really just ignore it and continue using your computer at 50% capacity?

That’s essentially what you’re saying. If you could think of a single reason why improving the scaling of events based on the number participating in it, you’d have just given one, but instead you chose to ignore the question, and instead pose a strawman argument.

Astral Projections.7320:

You obviously didn’t understand my point when I was talking about immersion. It’s not the zerg itself, it’s how the event scaling can’t handle that number of people.

Before I could relax and play. I would stand there and pay attention to to npc’s chatter. Stand around and watch what they were doing. Now it’s “if you snooze you lose”. If you don’t watch for the mobs, if you don’t race over to where they are spawning then you won’t be able to tag one of the few, weak mobs that appear and it’s much harder to get credit. It changed the game from enjoying the event and what was going on and any lore to “mob tag”

In addition, in case you didn’t know. Events show on the map from all across the map and also with your pointer. Every single daily event I’ve done has had at least 20 people doing it with me. The event pops. People from all across the map wp then run to it. I haven’t seen one daily event so far without at least 20 others getting there within a few minutes and the event mobs being inadequate to the numbers.

Seems like you haven’t been paying attention for all 79 levels that you went through. When your a higher level than the current map you get scaled down respectively to that level, in other words that green downward facing arrow next to your number 80 indicates that your only slightly more effective then the lowbie – mainly becuase skills/traits you have unlocked however you won’t completely blow them out of the water. The good majority of low leveled players are in the eotm karma train where they bypass this if they want with the badge,land claimer, sentry kills. This is only for 1 day and gradually drops off as time goes on, theyll survive its not completely game breaking as in they wont be able to play the following day as normal. Remember complete the daily a player needs to do 3 out of 12, just because you choose to handicap yourself by limiting to only pve doesn’t mean that applies to other players.

I main a mesmer – the worst tagging class as well as I play standard shatter spec. I can run across the map to tag an event as long as its above 5% and still get gold reward, I don’t ever play in a party. Your doing something completely wrong if your not beating me, espically if your read text which indicates you were there at the start of the event and still having trouble getting credit – SMH. If you dont like being a group hit the mobs and run away, as long as you don’t leave the map youll still get credit for the event.

Im up for the challenge, please list w/e map you had trouble with and ill point you to the least likely to be zerged events.

last start zone I remember was yesterday metrica province:

Option 1- Do you do world bosses? Chances are probably yes, so on said day arrive early and do the pre event chain. Each step in the chain counts as an event counts as an event, so from start to finish youll be done with daily event by the end. Sure this will go against your antizerg desire but at the same time youll get your world boss, daily event done as well as the world events are big enough that they don’t step on the toes of low leveled players – afterwards you can go to w/e map you wish and leisurely immerse yourself in w/e event your heart desires.

Fun fact: All starter areas, except plains of ashford, have a world boss with event chains that can fulfill by do the pre events. Even still the plains of ashford has around 68 events not including fail events.

Option 2 – ( speaking specifically for metrica province so as to not to cause confusion) suppose you arrive late to fire elemental or you miss it completely – no worries stop the waterworks. There is around a total of 63 events not including chain fail events, the mass wont be at each one. As odd as it sounds at Thaumanova Reactor once fire elemental is done has 3 destroy monster events, across the map at the inquest base is another mostly avoid area, on the sides of the map there are events.

here are clues : the more remote/ off the path the event is the less likely people will be willing to travel out to it.

The easier to access or if its a defense event – the more people will be there – players like easy fast farmable events.

This is an open world massive MULTIPLAYER online rpg – your not always going to be the only player at events – get over it

@Lishtenbird:

There wasn’t anything particularly meaningful about the dailies before the patch. Talk to a laurel vendor? Kill ambients? Remove conditions?

If anything, the fact that the changes encourage players to explore other areas and modes is far more meaningful.

Subdue.5479:

@Lishtenbird:

There wasn’t anything particularly meaningful about the dailies before the patch. Talk to a laurel vendor? Kill ambients? Remove conditions?

If anything, the fact that the changes encourage players to explore other areas and modes is far more meaningful.

That last one was actually really meaningful. It taught people to equip a condition cleanse skill. Just as daily dodger taught people to dodge. You’d be surprised how many people didn’t know either was possible before that.

Even as someone who likes the new daily system I agree that this is a flaw. Poor event scaling can ruin the process.

In general there are some pretty serious flaws with events in the megaserver system.

Echo,

A geared and traited level 80 is generally much more than just, “slightly,” more powerful than a low level character and will, generally, “blow them out of the water.”

The downscaling system is better than nothing but thats about it.

fracture.9754:

Let’s see…

Daily Shiverpeaks Miner – took me 2 minutes.

Daily Kryta Vista Viewer – took me 20 seconds (Queensdale Shaemoor Garrison vista – right next to a WP, you only climb a flight of stairs).

Craft an exotic – you can craft exotic essence of luck for 0 gold with Artificer level 0. I crafted a bolt of damask, sold it for PROFIT. Took me 1 minute.

Vista in Beetletun is maybe the fastest ( http://gw2.mmorpg-life.com/vista-191/40551/ )

For crafting, ascended also works, so you could just craft a bloodstone brick for example. Also you get 3 ectos for that one, so even crafting an exquiste jewel is no loss.

For the harvesting today i also got 2 T6 scales ..

All in all this was the best of the new dailys so far for me.

What I see here are a bunch of experienced players saying that other players who are just trying to play the game and get their dailies like they used to (just playing the game) should do a bunch of research so they know there are X events in one area of any particular map that respawn rapidly so you can go stand there (instead of playing the game) and wait with a ground-targeted AoE to hopefully just tag a mob (since every other experienced player will be there as well) so you can get a completion.

I’m not sure why just being able to play the game wasn’t a good way to do the dailies. This is sooo much better.

Here’s my list. I’m an RPer from Piken Square who spend 90% of my ingame time standing still in a circle being a total nerd:

1. Do 1 PvP match. I usually end up getting a Kill in. That’s 2/3 (Sometimes 3/3 if my profession of choice is daily).

2. Do 1 PvE Daily.

3. Profit

Takes me 10 minutes, tops. If I feel like additional rewards, I then go do the other dailies since now they’re no longer just a waste of time because even with Daily Completionist done I still get stuff for it. I love these new dailies, they’re great.

Oh, and Log-in rewards are even more awesome.

Mayko.1289:

i dont pvp or wvw, only got time for pve daily…. lets see today’s daily, craft an exotic, nope too expensive, shiver peak miner ok thats good, kryta vista ok thats also good… 4 events in Gandraent Field….. well i kind of have to do it but omg how did bloody took 1 hour n half just to get 4 events done!

sometimes i don’t have time do play the game just login for 15 min and get the daily. but this new daily system forces u to play for hours just to get dailies done and a lot less choice!

Previous system took significantly longer if you were after anything.
New system gives you anything but the AP instantly (upon login), AP take 5-15 minutes depending on what you do.

Ofc, if you want to go down a long list of what you’re not doing and then complaining that you’re not doing the stuff you said you’re not doing, we cannot exactly help you – but neither can the devs.

Only…. you’re not missing out on anything. If you have that little time that you cannot do the new dailies, then you couldn’t do the old ones either. So it’s a lot of free stuff for you as you gain all the log-in rewards.

Btw, Exotic Crafter works with luck essences. Even if not, craft an exotic inscription then sell it? Makes some minor amounts of cash and is done ~instantly.

Djinn.9245:

What I see here are a bunch of experienced players saying that other players who are just trying to play the game and get their dailies like they used to (just playing the game) should do a bunch of research so they know there are X events in one area of any particular map that respawn rapidly so you can go stand there (instead of playing the game) and wait with a ground-targeted AoE to hopefully just tag a mob (since every other experienced player will be there as well) so you can get a completion.

I’m not sure why just being able to play the game wasn’t a good way to do the dailies. This is sooo much better.

Bolded part is the important one. If I have to explain this, I’m not sure you’d get the explanation. In any case, trying:

The idea of a daily system is (and was, there was a blog post before the old one!) to entice people to do things they may not already be doing by offering additional rewards for doing that.
The old system started off well in this regard, frequently offering things like Ascalon Event Completer, Keep Capturer, dailies relating to current patch events, etc.

After the part with the triple worm (I think, might be off on the timing), this was changed in reaction to players being angry that they had to kill the 3-worm for the daily (they didn’t, the daily clearly said “The triple worm or any other world boss”, but that didn’t stop people from flooding the forums with how impossible that would be).
Dailies then had a much more rigid system for drawing the daily allotment, effectively resulting in players being able to do 3-4 dailies automatically.

At this point, you should already realize that the old system failed to do what it was intended to do. The moment I say “automatic”, it’s no longer true to the idea behind it. Automatic is not what it should be. It was supposed to make people do things they’re not already doing, so why is it rewarding doing exactly what they already did before?

However, as much as the devs may have liked to change it, dailies also provide two important currencies (Laurels and Mystic Coins). And players were used to their daily income of those, making things like Chauncey von Snuffles or a set of Mystic weapons a very dependable upgrade as you could easily count of the number of days/months until you get it.

Hence, the new implementation:

• The daily system once again is close to what it was meant to do. The lack of options coupled with how specific each daily is reduces the chance that someone gets it automatically. At the same time, it rewards doing things like playing sPvP on a class you usually don’t, defending a structure instead of just dueling or killing a specific world boss.
• As a compromise in regards to the currencies, a new log-in reward system essentially takes the old daily system and sands it off further. So the old dailies came automatically? Well, fair enough – now they are automatic. It is important to note that the log-in rewards are the replacement for the old daily system. They are very similar, both reward without having to do much, and both grant important currencies.

Again, the failure of the previous system was exactly that you could get them without having to change how you play much.

Subdue.5479:

That’s essentially what you’re saying. If you could think of a single reason why improving the scaling of events based on the number participating in it, you’d have just given one, but instead you chose to ignore the question, and instead pose a strawman argument.

Are you done telling me what I’m essentially saying or do you need more time to tell me what I’m saying? Since, you know, I haven’t said anything as far as answering your question so far. Because arguing a point I haven’t made, with yourself, makes much more sense.

But don’t mind me. I’m just being argumentative even though I’ve ignored your question.

Seeing the contradictions yet?

Djinn.9245:

What I see here are a bunch of experienced players saying that other players who are just trying to play the game and get their dailies like they used to (just playing the game) should do a bunch of research so they know there are X events in one area of any particular map that respawn rapidly so you can go stand there (instead of playing the game) and wait with a ground-targeted AoE to hopefully just tag a mob (since every other experienced player will be there as well) so you can get a completion.

I’m not sure why just being able to play the game wasn’t a good way to do the dailies. This is sooo much better.

Tips :
- a ranged weapon is your friend
- look at the zone chat if somebody posts WPs for events.

However .. personally i also am not a friend of those events in specific zones. Felt like
i ran around nearly an hour in Brisban yesterday .. and in the end i even made the
Fire-Elemental.