Guild Wars 2

Being patient I can do. Perhaps an update on what’s to come is just a day away but as it is not here now I feel a little frustrated.

The living story has added very little to the game as far as content and really only barely appeased the players in giving them something to do it would seem. The new feature pack added some more drive to playing the game, I think, with the wardrobe system and PvP reward lines but still didn’t add any content to the game. So now I play the same stuff I’ve been doing for almost 2 years and get a little better rewarded for it but wonder what is next and when are we going to get real NEW content. That and Anet said to hold on to blade shards and all that stuff because there was gonna be a use for it soon, well I’m still holding it! lol

IndigoSundown.5419:

I look at MMO’s — heck, video games in general — from a stimulus/response point of view. On a macro level, the stimulus is what the game provides one to do, and the response is enjoyment (whether we think of that as overcoming challenge, getting rewards, doing things with friends, etc.). The problem is that humans become jaded. Once the stimulus has been experienced enough times, the enjoyment falls below a “Boredom Threshold.” This point is going to be different for different people. Once it has been reached, though, the demand for new stimulus starts. Demand for new can in fact start in short order after the last new stimulus was made available.

As GW2 consumers, we’ve been conditioned to expect “something new every two weeks.” That was where this thread started. Since, the, “LS is not good” and the, “Need Expansion” posts started showing up. Ultimately, though, much of the dissatisfaction boils down to personal thresholds for boredom being exceeded or the new stimulus not being enjoyed. Every bit of new content, no matter what it is, hits obsolescence sooner or later.

The LS approach was designed to address this problem. One issue with it was that too many posters did not enjoy it. This may have been because they wanted something different, because their schedules didn’t allow them to experience it, etc. Another is that now that we have been conditioned, a break in the schedule prompts upset.

So, what’s the point? I find that taking this perspective allows me to step outside of what I want, to the point that I stop caring so much. Or, maybe it’s because, for me, analyzing GW2 issues is a stimulus that provokes an enjoyment response.

I totally agree with this post. It’s not really enjoyment, it’s about stimulus.

I’m pretty sure they’re on a mini hiatus right now (4-6 months?). They’ll probably announce something when they are close to a release. People tend to be upset when they make statements of upcoming features/content but don’t deliver (can’t blame people though). I think they are learning their lesson with that. Better safe than sorry.

As for the temporary content vs permanent content. Not really sure why this is an issue. Seems tiresome to keep arguing about this. If it’s so important I can easily see Anet putting Season 1 arc as a fractal. Then old and new players can experience the whole Scarlet Brair story arc from beginning to end. (with minor changes since the mist does alter things). So instead why not ask for something like this then continue the Living story season 2. Seems more productive~

I’m pretty sure that almost 2 years of GW2 for those who’s been playing it since the beginning deserves to be called “patience”, by any standards taken.

Expansion time!!!

Corpus Christi.2057:

I’m pretty sure that almost 2 years of GW2 for those who’s been playing it since the beginning deserves to be called “patience”, by any standards taken.

Expansion time!!!

More like saintly.

The problem is now though people are getting fed up and tired of the ,“Hey we got great things coming in the near future”.

We’ve heard that line far to many times and the near future never seems to materialize.

Anet is pushing the boundaries going this long without any new content. Quite frankly from all the players / guilds I know leaving recently – I think it’s going to come back to bite them in the behind when all is said and done.

Come to think of it, recalling my WoW days, I played from game release and quit a little bit before WotLK (the golden area). BC came out in 2007, ~2.3years after WoW was released. Then WotLK 1.5years after that. Considering WoW is the standard everyone seems to want to compare GW2 to, and it was subbed, I’m thinking everyone just needs to calm down. Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

So after all that has been said and done, when will we see new content? What is everyone guess at this point?

We know they have been very busy with the China launch which is now in head-start and soon to be live for all in China. We also know that china will get nearly the same content as the rest of NA and EU with a very small delay for them (less than a day I think…). With China just launching I am not sure we’ll see new content for another month. So beginning of June?

Draknar.5748:

Come to think of it, recalling my WoW days, I played from game release and quit a little bit before WotLK (the golden area). BC came out in 2007, ~2.3years after WoW was released. Then WotLK 1.5years after that. Considering WoW is the standard everyone seems to want to compare GW2 to, and it was subbed, I’m thinking everyone just needs to calm down. Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

In fact BC came 2 years and 2 months after the original and WotlK 1 year and 8 months.

And like you said it was sub. That does not mean you should expect it sooner but you can expect it later. GW2 is supposed to be a B2P game (while being more a cash-shop game at the moment) and so generate money with expansions. If not they had to turn to a cash-shop focus with all the negative effects of it (exactly what happened) so you would expect an expansion every year to year and a half.

Here a nice video that compaires the first few months of both games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NedWPHZCcik
Just to get your facts strait.

Besides WoW seems to be the standard it it comes to game-play and quality for many people but not if it comes to payment-model what is way over the top and would not work anymore I you tried it now (new).

KOPPER.1458:

So after all that has been said and done, when will we see new content? What is everyone guess at this point?

We know they have been very busy with the China launch which is now in head-start and soon to be live for all in China. We also know that china will get nearly the same content as the rest of NA and EU with a very small delay for them (less than a day I think…). With China just launching I am not sure we’ll see new content for another month. So beginning of June?

Honestly, I don’t expect to see it for 2-4 months from the April 15th Feature Patch date; also since Anet is remaining silent I don’t expect their to be any communication either. The only communication we will likely receive will most likely be a day prior to patch day.

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

Wow how informative, lol

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

Rym.1469:

-One new map without anything really interesting (SC)
-1/3 of an existing dungeon revmap
-Two zones “revmap” (one being a non-combat area without any quests, tasks, purely visual, the other changed only in particular area of the map (not more than 40%)
-Fractals – 14 short dungeon-like maps, couple of them are very short. Equal to maybe two dungeons
-4 new traits for each profession (grandmaster only)
-3 new pvp Maps (1 of them being Tournament rotation, 1 of 3 being troll map, 2 of 3 supporting main pvp mode. But one map erased, so 3-1=2 new maps )
-1 new healing skill for each profession. One Living Story-only healing skill.
-Two new sigils
-Two jumping puzzles
-Guild Missions (good one, actually)
-EotM overflow map
-WXP feature, couple new WvW tools
-No new non-gemstore, non-LS weapons apart from Ascended
-No new non-gemstore, non-LS armors apart from Ascended
-One revmap of World Boss
-One new World Boss
-one new condition
-two minigames

- I wouldnt say southsun was one new map without anything interesting, for starter it’s one of the most beautiful zones, secondly its one of the only challenging zones to solo and thirdly it has a world boss on it. That being said yes definitely needs more dynamic events and stuff happening on it no doubt there.

-A dungeon path isnt 1/3 of the a dungeon its a whole dungeon in itself come on. Just cause they decided to have 3 paths with each path being unique just themed and with a story related in the same area it doesnt somehow make it as a 1/3 of a standard dungeon.

-A couple of them are quite long as well. I dont think its fair to consider fractals less then 1/3 of your typical dungeon and thats already stretching it.

- LS heal is still in there and you can still get it today so why the distinction? does merely having an association with the living story somehow make it unclassified ?

- It is way more then 2 new sigils. Dont know exactly how many but I can recall at least sigil of generocity, renewal, malice, bursting, karka,perception… more

-also we got more then 2 new jumping puzzles. 2 where released with lost shores which I imagine are the ones you refer to but we also got vexa’s lab , not so secret, Coddler’s Cove and hidden garden at least. Also one might count or not depending on your definition of permanent, clock tower, windersday jp and SAB here.

-two new world bosses, there was also the karka queen

- three new conditions not one : Torment, Agony, toxin

- not 2 new minigames but 6: Belchers bluff, Costume brawl, Crab toss, Sanctum sprint, Southsun Survival, Moa Racing, and again not counting another 4 related to holiday events that are in a way permanent

People tend to miscount all the permanent stuff they added, I dont know maybe they’re blinded by their anger towards the temporary content or maybe its just the decision to let players discover the content themselves to keep that surprise alive backfires badly because lets be fair you might run into vexa’s lab for the first time today and how will you know that jping puzzle wasnt always there but added with one of the updates when the patch notes only state new jumping puzzles added.

Devata.6589:

That is an extreme example and if thats the case thats also not good. Especially when it’s time-gated. The mini I am talking about had I thing something of a 1 in few thousand drop-rate. seems like a lot but you had an area where those mobs where a lot and they dye with one kill.

For dungeons you want to make it a little higher drop-rate. The fact thats WoW does that wrong with that mount does not mean it can’t be done right.

However is does show how people work towards something. That itself is content. You in a way proof what I what trying to say all the time.

You cant, cause the moment you make it drop often and which is not time bound it ceases to be exclusive. You cannot have something exclusive thats easy to get whenever you want which is what you’d like to see. When things stop being exclusive they stop being valuable. Its not like Gw2 doesnt drop anything but who is happy to receive a green drop? they’re just too common which makes people not care about them.

No its not, the content is the raid you have to play in order to get to the reward not the I have to play this content in order to get to the reward. Simply speaking if say tomorrow arenanet deployed a new unique mini you could get for finishing say the not so secret jumping puzzle no one would consider that as arenanet doing a new jumping puzzle because adding a reward is not new content and thats correct cause it isnt. Rewards are incentives not content itself.

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata

sorry I disagree rewards absolutely do not make content fun. Never did never will, they may make it worth while but they’re never going to make it fun. If you hate say PvP you’re not going to find it fun just cause doing it will get you a legendary. You may be happy to endure it cause you really want a legendary but you’re still not going to find it enjoyable.

You might want to consider replacing the word, “you,” with, “I,” in a couple of places there. You might not find rewards to affect the fun factor of something but other people will. For some people a sense of reward is intrinsically tied to experiencing fun. This is not an uncommon psychological phenomenon. It does not mean that a sufficient reward will always overcome distaste for a given activity in terms of having fun for these people, but reward is still an inherent and all but inseparable part of fun for them.

I disagree else people would never complain about grind in any game. Why? 2 important factors, if a grinding activity doesnt have a desirable reward no one would do it. if a desirable reward makes content fun then no one would consider it grindy.

going with an example in game, ascended gear is desirable enough that people feel they have to have it thus not only they feel they cannot simply skip it altogether but its desirable so much they have to earn it as soon possible. Yet they complain about the grind they need to endure (grind that in most cases can be perfectly skipped entirely since you get all the stuff you need for your ascended gear by playing the content you want to play yet people dont do that because it is obviously considerable slower to do that). Hence I feel this is a pretty clear example of how the reward doesnt make the content fun here but actually quite the opposite the reward is driving people from the content they feel is fun to content they feel is boring.

Mutantclover.1275:

Haven’t read the whole thread but here goes.

First off, they once said they didn’t want to add new permanent zones because it would cause old zones to be empty. I have a strong suspicion that “Megaservers” are the fix for this problem. They heard people saying they wanted new maps, while still being able to replay “old” maps, and there was no way forward without some kind of fundamental change to the way the game works. Because the number of servers are important to WvW, but they were in the way when it came to expanding the size of PvE. They kept the servers, but came up with this merging system for PvE. It is not perfect (yet) but I have little doubt it was a change made for the benefit of the game down the road.

Now, going forward, first of all they need to make adjustments to existing PvE features that have been affected by megaservers. For example, right now its hard to get credit for a low level boss pre-event because its so hard to tag anything, the zerg mows it down way too quick. A lot of people do these events so I would think its a high priority to fix the scaling. Maybe they could make some copper or silver veterans spawn instead of trash mobs. But with the 15 minute per boss rotation, they need to carefully balance it out. Meanwhile, another thread is saying guild missions are really hurt by megaservers. Make no mistake, this was a huge change to PvE that affects a lot of things, and I’m not surprised there are some unwanted effects along with the good. Bottom line, they need to fix these things as their first priority after this big change to the game.

THEN they can release some new maps with lots of new content. They are probably already working on this, and I assume the longer before new content is released, the more there will be. This is all speculation of course, but I’m hoping I’m right. I think the lack of announcements is probably a result of much of their work right now being reactionary to the problems that have inevitably arisen from the megaserver rollout. As others have said… patience!

I suspect exactly the same thing as you do.

I have no doubt we made loud and clear we want new zones and I am sure they realize for a lot of people thats one of the reason they’re against the living story because they feel such content can only come with an expansion so pretty sure one of their targets for Season 2 is to show that indeed living world can deliver the same content an expansion can. The megaserver was step 1. A system in place to mitigate player fragmentation. They’ve been working on 2 big projects for the past year and half and I am pretty confident that at least one of them is new zones (makes sense it takes that long right to create good new zones fully populated with events and stuff?).

That being said I do feel a nice state of the game post would help at this stage. So I hope it will not take long. I am curious on what to expect in the next 1/2 years just as much as anyone else

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

A lot of people do them actually. They do them for armours to transmute, for rare pets, rare mini’s, and achievements. Which, on that game, you get by actually doing content.

Even if 20% of WoW players do them, that’s still more than how many GW2 players do the LS again, which is 0%, because it’s not even in the game anymore.

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

He was talking about a year and a half in the same lifespan for WoW as GW2. That is, early WoW stuff vs early GW2 stuff. So, you would be looking at the content back after it was just released to see who was still playing it.

Why don’t you just look at all the WoW changes over the last 2 years versus those for GW2 over the last two years. It’s clear what a subscription buys.

Skan.5301:

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

A lot of people do them actually. They do them for armours to transmute, for rare pets, rare mini’s, and achievements. Which, on that game, you get by actually doing content.

Even if 20% of WoW players do them, that’s still more than how many GW2 players do the LS again, which is 0%, because it’s not even in the game anymore.

you’re saying 20% of level 100 players do level 60 or other lower level raids / dungeons / world bosses? I can understand some dont mind steamrolling a lower level dungeon for a skin that’s fine but 20%? that’s surely way too high!

doesnt seem right to be honest because it will not be fun to do that and in of case people who do it for the skins they will still stop doing it once they get the skin they want anyway so while for such people I concede that such a low level dungeon might not expire just the moment they out level it, it will still expire once they get the skin they want.

Lankybrit.4598:

He was talking about a year and a half in the same lifespan for WoW as GW2. That is, early WoW stuff vs early GW2 stuff. So, you would be looking at the content back after it was just released to see who was still playing it.

Why don’t you just look at all the WoW changes over the last 2 years versus those for GW2 over the last two years. It’s clear what a subscription buys.

WoW over the last 2 years

hide spoiler

September 25 – Mists of Pandaria expansion released in North America and Europe…. tons of stuff

Because if you compare first 2 years of 1 game vs last 2 years of another game you wouldnt be comparing like with like? Creating content is just about creating stuff its also about creating the tools to create that content, its about coming up with the best pipe line to create said content and to learn from your mistakes. If you compare first 2 years of gw2 vs last 2 years of wow you’re comparing someone who is still creating their tool, still finding what works and what doesnt and how to best go about creating content with someone who had 8 years to build their tools and polish their workflow.

beyond this specific case it would be wrong because starting to count from day one you have an actual measureable timeline. IE in case of WoW for example you can clearly say it took them 2 years 2 months work to release an expansion. but if you count backwards from today you cant do the same. For example going with pandaria counting from today I can say they released it 1 year 9 months ago but thats not a measure of how long it takes them. If I did the same count say a week after pandaria’s release does it mean they release an expansion every 1 week? Of course not. thats why its fair to start comparing both games on day 1.

Galen, it doesn’t really make that much of a difference which period you take. WoW release Expansions, and permanent content patches between them, GW2 doesn’t.

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

Back when WoW was released, people ran all that content up until the first expansion over two years later. You could fine Molten Core raiding guilds up until the day of TBC.

With LFR in the current expansion, people run previous raid content for the entire expansion. Even ignoring this, WoW tier raids still have more permanence than GW2 content. Raids are relevant for 6-12 months, Living Story is relevant for 1.

In fact, people still run vanilla raids to this day ten years later for mounts, skins, and achievements. Hell, people do old raids for the 20+ slot bags.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.
Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

That is an extreme example and if thats the case thats also not good. Especially when it’s time-gated. The mini I am talking about had I thing something of a 1 in few thousand drop-rate. seems like a lot but you had an area where those mobs where a lot and they dye with one kill.

For dungeons you want to make it a little higher drop-rate. The fact thats WoW does that wrong with that mount does not mean it can’t be done right.

However is does show how people work towards something. That itself is content. You in a way proof what I what trying to say all the time.

You cant, cause the moment you make it drop often and which is not time bound it ceases to be exclusive. You cannot have something exclusive thats easy to get whenever you want which is what you’d like to see. When things stop being exclusive they stop being valuable. Its not like Gw2 doesnt drop anything but who is happy to receive a green drop? they’re just too common which makes people not care about them.

No its not, the content is the raid you have to play in order to get to the reward not the I have to play this content in order to get to the reward. Simply speaking if say tomorrow arenanet deployed a new unique mini you could get for finishing say the not so secret jumping puzzle no one would consider that as arenanet doing a new jumping puzzle because adding a reward is not new content and thats correct cause it isnt. Rewards are incentives not content itself.

For the first thing. I never said it had to be easy to get. yeah then it would not be exclusive anymore. I said it should drop in a specific place and it can be hard. Because it’s in a specific place people are less likely to get is as a general drop so the TP will not be flooded with it. If it’s also hard content then it will stay exclusive, just not unavailable for those who really want it. To take the WoW example again. There are mini’s in the open world since the game released about 10 years ago and they are still very exclusive. And i’m not talking about stuff behind time-gated dungeons.

I think you misunderstood me there. I did not say the reward is the content but the ‘working towards it’ is content. As a matter of fact if Anet would now trow all mini’s in the world and some in JP’s, some in dungeons and so on then I would consider that game-play as it would then be something I could start hunting down. However usually you of course do it together. You release the new dungeon + the rewards. Then the dungeon itself it content but working towards that mini is as well.

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

I did here the upcoming expansion would change that. Anyway, it’s still accessible for lower level characters and you can still farm it for rewards like a mini. As you see, working towards a mini can be content.

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

Blackmoone Faire was not weekly when it was first released, not even close, it was for X period of time, then it was gone until next year. Then you might as well count Dragon Bash, Gauntlet, Zephyr Sanctum, every mini-game they’ve added, SAB.

Not to mention Southsun Shore, an entire zone.

3 battle grounds? EoTM is as big as all three of those BGs combined.

10 world bosses huh, which were farmed much the same way the world bosses in GW2 are being farmed, and GW2 has more of them. Even worse in WoW those bosses were farmed by the same guilds over and over, leaving everyone else out in the dust. Was good of them to add content that the majority of people never got to experience.

Mauradon and Dire Maul I’ll give you, but both of those combined are less than all of FoTM combined.

Nice try, though, kudos for thinking WoW had more content in the same period of time. But you, sir, are very incorrect.

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

Blackmoone Faire was not weekly when it was first released, not even close, it was for X period of time, then it was gone until next year. Then you might as well count Dragon Bash, Gauntlet, Zephyr Sanctum, every mini-game they’ve added, SAB.

Not to mention Southsun Shore, an entire zone.

3 battle grounds? EoTM is as big as all three of those BGs combined (in addition to the already giant WvW maps we had at release).

10 world bosses huh, which were farmed much the same way the world bosses in GW2 are being farmed, and GW2 has more of them. Even worse in WoW those bosses were farmed by the same guilds over and over, leaving everyone else out in the dust. Was good of them to add content that the majority of people never got to experience.

Mauradon and Dire Maul I’ll give you, but both of those combined are less than all of FoTM combined.

Nice try, though, kudos for thinking WoW had more content in the same period of time. But you, sir, are very incorrect.

KOPPER.1458:

I think it’s a bit rude to assume people don’t have jobs…

I can confirm people that complain about the most about trivial stuff like demanding an outline of how the devs are spending their next 5 minutes… they don’t have jobs. I know because I was that way years ago, and it’s embarrassing to think back on how stupid and self-centered I could be online then.

Galen Grey.4709:

Skan.5301:

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

A lot of people do them actually. They do them for armours to transmute, for rare pets, rare mini’s, and achievements. Which, on that game, you get by actually doing content.

Even if 20% of WoW players do them, that’s still more than how many GW2 players do the LS again, which is 0%, because it’s not even in the game anymore.

you’re saying 20% of level 100 players do level 60 or other lower level raids / dungeons / world bosses? I can understand some dont mind steamrolling a lower level dungeon for a skin that’s fine but 20%? that’s surely way too high!

doesnt seem right to be honest because it will not be fun to do that and in of case people who do it for the skins they will still stop doing it once they get the skin they want anyway so while for such people I concede that such a low level dungeon might not expire just the moment they out level it, it will still expire once they get the skin they want.

Yeah true, at some point you stop playing it. But everybody will always have the opportunity to do that or work towards that mini. If new players come into GW2 and ask for a skin it’s “not available anymore” or if they are luck “grind loads and loads of gold or buy gems”.

TurtleofPower.5641:

KOPPER.1458:

I think it’s a bit rude to assume people don’t have jobs…

I can confirm people that complain about the most about trivial stuff like demanding an outline of how the devs are spending their next 5 minutes… they don’t have jobs. I know because I was that way years ago, and it’s embarrassing to think back on how stupid and self-centered I could be online then.

Asking the developer do they plan permanent contend or do they stick with LS.
Or is anything planed for this year is not trivial stuff to me.
And yes i have a job.

I am just a minor group here in GW2. Someone who doesn’t chase shiny things or raid something for reward. We play to experience a nice story in a fantasy world with epic quests and twists.
For people like us GW2 didn’t change since release.
I leave it up to you now to answer the usual “than leave” or “play somehting else”

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata

sorry I disagree rewards absolutely do not make content fun. Never did never will, they may make it worth while but they’re never going to make it fun. If you hate say PvP you’re not going to find it fun just cause doing it will get you a legendary. You may be happy to endure it cause you really want a legendary but you’re still not going to find it enjoyable.

You might want to consider replacing the word, “you,” with, “I,” in a couple of places there. You might not find rewards to affect the fun factor of something but other people will. For some people a sense of reward is intrinsically tied to experiencing fun. This is not an uncommon psychological phenomenon. It does not mean that a sufficient reward will always overcome distaste for a given activity in terms of having fun for these people, but reward is still an inherent and all but inseparable part of fun for them.

I disagree else people would never complain about grind in any game. Why? 2 important factors, if a grinding activity doesnt have a desirable reward no one would do it. if a desirable reward makes content fun then no one would consider it grindy.

Ashen was noting that you’re taking it upon yourself to decide what others consider grind or fun to be. Annnnnnd the above shows you’re still doing it.

Galen Grey.4709:

going with an example in game, ascended gear is desirable enough that people feel they have to have it thus not only they feel they cannot simply skip it altogether but its desirable so much they have to earn it as soon possible. Yet they complain about the grind they need to endure (grind that in most cases can be perfectly skipped entirely since you get all the stuff you need for your ascended gear by playing the content you want to play yet people dont do that because it is obviously considerable slower to do that). Hence I feel this is a pretty clear example of how the reward doesnt make the content fun here but actually quite the opposite the reward is driving people from the content they feel is fun to content they feel is boring.

The physiological component of fun — pleasure — is derived from overcoming challenges, and/or experiencing new sensations. Why? When someone encounters something novel, dopamine is secreted, and the person feels pleasure. Once the experience becomes routine, no dopamine and the thrill is gone.

This is why new content is so much in demand in virtually every MMO. MMO developers don’t typically produce new content at the same rate that at least some MMO consumers reach the “routine” point on the fun-boredom continuum and stop having fun. So, they use a different novel experience, that of obtaining a desirable reward, to stimulate the player’s pleasure center.

The thing is, you cannot know where any given individual is on that continuum from fun to boredom in relation to any given activity. Nor can you say that the pleasure derived from getting a reward is not fun for that individual. You’d have to be that person to know, and you’re not.

As to Ascended… RNG reward systems use anticipation to hold off boredom. Each time you do X, there’s a chance you’ll get that thrill. Incremental reward systems (like GW2 dungeon tokens or collecting mats for Ascended) still use anticipation, but not in the same way. The pleasure is deferred until you have enough X. That means you will not get that rush until the last run-through is done. That’s why Ascended is perceived by some as a grind if the content involved is not fun for them. Completing an event is just one step on a long road to getting that thrill — when the thrill is all that matters. Completing it generates a sense of relief that you have one less to do. For others, deferred rather than random goals make more sense. For them, getting that one step closer is fun.

Likewise RNG drops of mats to make stuff. Not only is each mob kill repetitive, you face RNG. Even if you got lucky, it’s still only one tiny step along the way to the goal.

I’ll give you this much. Some people are doing the content or farming gold only to get Ascended because they want it. Others are doing the content because they still enjoy it. The former is anticipating the deferred fun, the latter is experiencing fun in the moment. You don’t know who’s who, nor whether players doing GW2 content they don’t care for find the fun of getting the Ascended reward to outweigh the boredom of doing content they don’t care for. I’ll guarantee one thing, there are plenty of people who got their Ascended who both didn’t care for the content or farming, but who didn’t complain.

the new season will probably start on dragon bash why? well
1) there is a mystical dragon minipet on the bank tab
2) wvw tournament is ended
3) china release = dragons
4) there is going to be a new dragon
5) anet shared a video of someone saying the same thing that season 2 will start on dragon bash
6) have fun playing xD

Kurrilino.2706:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

---

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.

Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm being hard to spot on the internet.

I personally can’t wait for something new. On the other hand, I like to keep my expectations realistic. Some people have been comparing s subscribtion model mmo with a buy to play mmo. If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo. I hear ESO is… eh..new. There’s plenty of them out there, and another soon to launch!

This break was expected. IIRC, they said ‘break – feature patch – break’. They possibly need the extra time for the China launch; GW2hub is speculating about some major new content in the works, like the new zone a lot of people are craving.

TL:DR: Be realistic. Expecting a buy to play MMO to deliver the same level of content as a sub based one is likely to lead to dissappointment.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Kurrilino.2706:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

---

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.

Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm being hard to spot on the internet.

I personally can’t wait for something new. On the other hand, I like to keep my expectations realistic. Some people have been comparing s subscribtion model mmo with a buy to play mmo. If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo. I hear ESO is… eh..new. There’s plenty of them out there, and another soon to launch!

This break was expected. IIRC, they said ‘break – feature patch – break’. They possibly need the extra time for the China launch; GW2hub is speculating about some major new content in the works, like the new zone a lot of people are craving.

TL:DR: Be realistic. Expecting a buy to play MMO to deliver the same level of content as a sub based one is likely to lead to dissappointment.

“If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.”

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.

Sadly Anet then decided that they would still go for the cash-shop approach in stead of expansions.

So no need to look for another game, this game should just start focusing on expansions instead of monthly patches. You know, it being B2P and all.

If this game would have been a true B2P game we would have had or first expansion by now. So people don’t ask for to much imho.

Devata.6589:

If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.
…….

If you’re keen on permanent updates, find a subscription MMO
I am keen on permanent updates, so I chose B2P.

That doesn’t make sense!

Devata.6589:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Kurrilino.2706:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

---

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.

Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm being hard to spot on the internet.

I personally can’t wait for something new. On the other hand, I like to keep my expectations realistic. Some people have been comparing s subscribtion model mmo with a buy to play mmo. If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo. I hear ESO is… eh..new. There’s plenty of them out there, and another soon to launch!

This break was expected. IIRC, they said ‘break – feature patch – break’. They possibly need the extra time for the China launch; GW2hub is speculating about some major new content in the works, like the new zone a lot of people are craving.

TL:DR: Be realistic. Expecting a buy to play MMO to deliver the same level of content as a sub based one is likely to lead to dissappointment.

If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.

Sadly Anet then decided that they would still go for the cash-shop approach in stead of expansions.

So no need to look for another game, this game should just start focusing on expansions instead of monthly patches. You know, it being B2P and all.

If this game would have been a true B2P game we would have had or first expansion by now. So people don’t ask for to much imho.

Anet from the start have been pretty clear what content they intended to deliver. You buy the game, you get the game, plus frequent living story updates.

I’m not sure where you are getting the:’It’s buy to play, thus expansions’ from. You appear to be redefining the Buy to Play term to fit your own expectations, not the commonly accepted meaning of it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata

sorry I disagree rewards absolutely do not make content fun. Never did never will, they may make it worth while but they’re never going to make it fun. If you hate say PvP you’re not going to find it fun just cause doing it will get you a legendary. You may be happy to endure it cause you really want a legendary but you’re still not going to find it enjoyable.

You might want to consider replacing the word, “you,” with, “I,” in a couple of places there. You might not find rewards to affect the fun factor of something but other people will. For some people a sense of reward is intrinsically tied to experiencing fun. This is not an uncommon psychological phenomenon. It does not mean that a sufficient reward will always overcome distaste for a given activity in terms of having fun for these people, but reward is still an inherent and all but inseparable part of fun for them.

I disagree else people would never complain about grind in any game. Why? 2 important factors, if a grinding activity doesnt have a desirable reward no one would do it. if a desirable reward makes content fun then no one would consider it grindy.

going with an example in game, ascended gear is desirable enough that people feel they have to have it thus not only they feel they cannot simply skip it altogether but its desirable so much they have to earn it as soon possible. Yet they complain about the grind they need to endure (grind that in most cases can be perfectly skipped entirely since you get all the stuff you need for your ascended gear by playing the content you want to play yet people dont do that because it is obviously considerable slower to do that). Hence I feel this is a pretty clear example of how the reward doesnt make the content fun here but actually quite the opposite the reward is driving people from the content they feel is fun to content they feel is boring.

I am sorry but you are wrong. The fact that some people consider something grindy despite associated rewards does not mean that everyone does. The, “they,” to whom you keep referring are not everyone. For some people the rewards associated with content influence or even completely determine whether or not they perceive of it as fun.

The fact that rewards do not determine whether or not something is fun for some, or even most, people is completely irrelevant to whether or not some people do. Most people are not colorblind, that does not mean that no one is.

The LS is designed to facilitate the cash shop business model. It was introduced at that moment where Anet shifted from B2P to cash shop models. As was stated earlier, a pure B2P would have had an expansion by now. The LS is for the cash shop as it promotes those behaviors and attempts to maximize daily logins.

I recall Colin stating “we don’t need to do expansions… we can deliver content every two weeks for free!” when LS was first rolled out to the player base. That’s a cash shop model. The game has suffered because of it imho. I don’t even log in right now — but I check the forums once a week hoping for something exciting for GW2’s future.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Anet from the start have been pretty clear what content they intended to deliver. You buy the game, you get the game, plus frequent living story updates.

I’m not sure where you are getting the:’It’s buy to play, thus expansions’ from. You appear to be redefining the Buy to Play term to fit your own expectations, not the commonly accepted meaning of it.

Er… “from the start”?

Living Story didn’t even exist when this game launched. It came later. If they had told me right at the start that Living Story would be the way new content would be delivered, I would have saved my money and not even purchased the game in the first place.

^^ this ^^

China will be the new cash shop cow now. I’m not holding my breath for anything substantial at this point.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Devata.6589:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Kurrilino.2706:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

---

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.

Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm being hard to spot on the internet.

I personally can’t wait for something new. On the other hand, I like to keep my expectations realistic. Some people have been comparing s subscribtion model mmo with a buy to play mmo. If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo. I hear ESO is… eh..new. There’s plenty of them out there, and another soon to launch!

This break was expected. IIRC, they said ‘break – feature patch – break’. They possibly need the extra time for the China launch; GW2hub is speculating about some major new content in the works, like the new zone a lot of people are craving.

TL:DR: Be realistic. Expecting a buy to play MMO to deliver the same level of content as a sub based one is likely to lead to dissappointment.

If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.

Sadly Anet then decided that they would still go for the cash-shop approach in stead of expansions.

So no need to look for another game, this game should just start focusing on expansions instead of monthly patches. You know, it being B2P and all.

If this game would have been a true B2P game we would have had or first expansion by now. So people don’t ask for to much imho.

Anet from the start have been pretty clear what content they intended to deliver. You buy the game, you get the game, plus frequent living story updates.

I’m not sure where you are getting the:’It’s buy to play, thus expansions’ from. You appear to be redefining the Buy to Play term to fit your own expectations, not the commonly accepted meaning of it.

Wut?
Guild Wars 2 was released on August 28, 2012 and they started talking about LS(LW) on January 31, 2013.
Plus the only B2P model back then was the one of GW1 and it sustained itself through expansions.

Did anyone notice that the forum regarding the “Battle of Lion’s Arch – Aftermath” has disappeared? Hopefully it means something…

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Did anyone notice that the forum regarding the “Battle of Lion’s Arch – Aftermath” has disappeared? Hopefully it means something…

I want to say so badly it means new content soon but its probably just because that forum was getting rather pointless because that living story was finished over a month ago.

Blackarps.1974:

I want to say so badly it means new content soon but its probably just because that forum was getting rather pointless because that living story was finished over a month ago.

That’s the most logical assumption, yet the last bit of hope is always the hardest to snuff out

Lankybrit.4598:

Galen, it doesn’t really make that much of a difference which period you take. WoW release Expansions, and permanent content patches between them, GW2 doesn’t.

expansions, permanent content patches… they’re just words what matters is the content in my opinion. For example I am not much of a dungeon and raid guy. Sure I enjoy doing them a few times but I am not the type who’ll be happy repeating a raid for a whole 2 years, I find that boring personally.

So for me (and I am speaking about myself alone here) Gw2 content strategy is a lot better then WoW content strategy. The living Story for me was perfect, every 2 weeks I get something new to do, something new to explore… etc…

the couple of new dungeons we got with the living story only stayed in game for a month or so but for me thats fine for me as I wouldnt play them much more then that anyway. I just dont see the allure of doing the same dungeon over and over again. I play the game mainly for the stories and repeating a dungeon just doesnt offer anything in that department. As for wow those content releases would mean 2-3 months worth of content (dungeons / battle grounds / that type of content patches) to enjoy with 1.5 year of waiting for the type of content I am really interested in.

and I am using WoW as an example dont mean to pick on any specific mmo, the same holds true with many other mmos, some dont even offer intermediate content between expansions either.

Devata.6589:

I think you misunderstood me there. I did not say the reward is the content but the ‘working towards it’ is content. As a matter of fact if Anet would now trow all mini’s in the world and some in JP’s, some in dungeons and so on then I would consider that game-play as it would then be something I could start hunting down. However usually you of course do it together. You release the new dungeon + the rewards. Then the dungeon itself it content but working towards that mini is as well.

I am confused… sure you cannot get mini drops in JP, or world bosses etc… but you can get ascended gear in any JP, world boss so isnt this already the case? or does the reward specifically have to be minis?

Devata.6589:

Yeah true, at some point you stop playing it. But everybody will always have the opportunity to do that or work towards that mini. If new players come into GW2 and ask for a skin it’s “not available anymore” or if they are luck “grind loads and loads of gold or buy gems”.

I dont know… I just dont see it. I mean I am not a wow player so this a totally ficticious example. But lets say this open world level 60 boss drops this mini you’re interested in. Sure you a level 100 uber killer can still go back and farm that boss. Only now that you’re level 100 with your mega super gear its no longer an adrenaline filled fight as its intended to be, its you hitting the boss for 5 seconds while passively healing more damage then the boss can deal. I am sorry I just cant see that as enjoying old content at that point you’re just playing a slot machine waiting for the win.

Thats also overlooking the fact that for this scenario to happen you’d have to skip that boss entirely (or at least played it for less than it was intended to be played) which actually means content will last less rather then more.

I mean think about it this way:
A level appropriate character might require 10 mins to kill this boss. not counting failures with a drop rate of 10% the boss fight is designed to give players 100 mins worth of game play. Now in our scenario you did it once a level 60 so thats 10 mins of worth of game play. Then you came back for the mini only not the fight takes 1 minute instead of 10 because your dps is a lot higher then intended so the whole encounter now gave you 19 mins worth of game play rather then 100 mins.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ashen was noting that you’re taking it upon yourself to decide what others consider grind or fun to be. Annnnnnd the above shows you’re still doing it.

No I am not, I am not defining what is grind or what is fun for other people, I am not focusing on other people at all, I am focusing on the term itself. What is Grind? Grind is derived from the action of grinding stuff like coffee, which involves a boring repetitive motion. while repetitive is basically universal what is boring is subjective to the individual. I never said doing X or Y is grindy, I said people complained X is grindy there is a huge difference there. I am not like you’re saying deciding for people what is grindy or what is not I am simply stating what those people themselves stated as what was grindy for them.

Also please note that was an example to support the real statement that was even more general than that. What I said is if reward makes content fun then you can never have grind. Again thats not in any way deciding for people what grind or fun is. Its really immaterial. its just mathematics really. If Grind = Repetitive + boring then to have grind you must not be enjoying what you’re doing. If reward can turn content fun then it stands to reason that if a reward is worth while you’re not going to get bored because you’re having fun thanks to reward. Now if grinding is boring why do it? for the reward but if like Ashen claims reward can make content fun wouldnt I be enjoying myself now thanks to reward and if I am enjoying myself then whatever I am doing shouldnt feel grindy anymore right? So then how could anyone ever complain that getting this great reward be too grindy?

So again not deciding for anyone what fun / grind is. Just that if it was true that reward makes content fun then statements like its too grindy to get that awesome rewards shouldnt exist and they do which in my opinion disproves the theory that rewards can make content fun. You can be happy to get the reward not disagreeing with that and that happiness can make the effort worth while sure but it will not make the content any more fun to play then it would be for you to play it without any reward associated with it. Thats all I am saying.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The physiological component of fun — pleasure — is derived from overcoming challenges, and/or experiencing new sensations. Why? When someone encounters something novel, dopamine is secreted, and the person feels pleasure. Once the experience becomes routine, no dopamine and the thrill is gone.

This is why new content is so much in demand in virtually every MMO. MMO developers don’t typically produce new content at the same rate that at least some MMO consumers reach the “routine” point on the fun-boredom continuum and stop having fun. So, they use a different novel experience, that of obtaining a desirable reward, to stimulate the player’s pleasure center.

The thing is, you cannot know where any given individual is on that continuum from fun to boredom in relation to any given activity. Nor can you say that the pleasure derived from getting a reward is not fun for that individual. You’d have to be that person to know, and you’re not.

I never stated people dont get fun out of rewards. Only that the reward will not make the activity itself any more or less fun which is different. lets say I really really hate crafting but want my ascended armor set. So I spend hours leveling my crafting, crafting exotics and salvaging them to get dark matter etc… It doesnt mean I am not going to be the happiest man in tyria when I finish my set of course I will be, the reward will definitely make me happy especially after the effort I put into it. What I am saying is I will not be saying wow man I am having so much fun crafting my way to 500 because I will not hate crafting any less just cause of the reward.

IndigoSundown.5419:

As to Ascended… RNG reward systems use anticipation to hold off boredom. Each time you do X, there’s a chance you’ll get that thrill. Incremental reward systems (like GW2 dungeon tokens or collecting mats for Ascended) still use anticipation, but not in the same way. The pleasure is deferred until you have enough X. That means you will not get that rush until the last run-through is done. That’s why Ascended is perceived by some as a grind if the content involved is not fun for them. Completing an event is just one step on a long road to getting that thrill — when the thrill is all that matters. Completing it generates a sense of relief that you have one less to do. For others, deferred rather than random goals make more sense. For them, getting that one step closer is fun.

But again with RNG the thrill you’re getting is at the end of the content not during the content. You got your reward in the form of a closed chest and there is the trill of will this chest contain what I am looking for? again you’re happy with the reward not with the content. Simply speaking if you dont enjoy killing champions in a zerg but you do it for the skins and I ask you what you enjoy about it you’re never going to tell me killing the champions, you’re going to tell me opinion the pouches hoping for that jackpot. the content itself (killing the champion) will not feel any more enjoyable / exciting. only opening the pouches is.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Likewise RNG drops of mats to make stuff. Not only is each mob kill repetitive, you face RNG. Even if you got lucky, it’s still only one tiny step along the way to the goal.

I’ll give you this much. Some people are doing the content or farming gold only to get Ascended because they want it. Others are doing the content because they still enjoy it. The former is anticipating the deferred fun, the latter is experiencing fun in the moment. You don’t know who’s who, nor whether players doing GW2 content they don’t care for find the fun of getting the Ascended reward to outweigh the boredom of doing content they don’t care for. I’ll guarantee one thing, there are plenty of people who got their Ascended who both didn’t care for the content or farming, but who didn’t complain.

And I never stated otherwise. for clarification I never said getting ascended gear is grindy / boring only that some people do find it so (based on their own statement)