Guild Wars 2

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If you don’t want to do map completion, that’s not Anet’s fault.

Sure it would be when we have legitimately earned unlocks under the system in place.

Plus there’s a quote from Mike O’Brien floating somewhere around about anet promising never to invalidate what players have done in the past to earn skills/items/abilities in future changes. If abilities and traits are re-locked this would make a lie of that statement.

So, just to be sure: The character I played in PvE since Release to 80, then only did WvW with him, has only 400 points and I need to unlock the rest of the skills I already have right now?? If this is true, I’m definetly out.

MandJ.8965:

So, just to be sure: The character I played in PvE since Release to 80, then only did WvW with him, has only 400 points and I need to unlock the rest of the skills I already have right now?? If this is true, I’m definetly out.

We don’t know because anet haven’t commented. Given how it was handled in the NPE I would guess that all 80s will be given access to all traits and abilities apart from the elite but I don’t trust them not to kitten it up.

morrolan.9608:

MandJ.8965:

So, just to be sure: The character I played in PvE since Release to 80, then only did WvW with him, has only 400 points and I need to unlock the rest of the skills I already have right now?? If this is true, I’m definetly out.

We don’t know because anet haven’t commented. Given how it was handled in the NPE I would guess that all 80s will be given access to all traits and abilities apart from the elite but I don’t trust them not to kitten it up.

Thx for reply mate.
It would be crazy! How high/drunk you must be to have such an silly idea? Maybe we will get more Information on the Live Stream

If you played since release surely you have some skill challenges done in the maps while you were leveling? Which means you will be fine.

As for giving all current 80’s everything. That wont work. Hero points are supposed to be a finite number. So if you havent done all the skillpoints already and you get everything unlocked for free then you are going to have more hero points than any new characters. Which breaks the idea of a fixed amount of hero points per character.

Honestly i dont get the complaint. It would take about an hour at best to get those 65 extra skill challenges for one character. Suck it up its not the end of the world.

spoj.9672:

If you played since release surely you have some skill challenges done in the maps while you were leveling? Which means you will be fine.

As for giving all current 80’s everything. That wont work. Hero points are supposed to be a finite number. So if you havent done all the skillpoints already and you get everything unlocked for free then you are going to have more hero points than any new characters. Which breaks the idea of a fixed amount of hero points per character.

Honestly i dont get the complaint. It would take about an hour at best to get those 65 extra skill challenges for one character. Suck it up its not the end of the world.

theres no way its an hour.
less than a minute per skill point isnt realistic
you might be able to do 3 hours.

Tachenon.5270:

Seems to me it would take very little effort for the devs to allay — or confirm — the concerns expressed here and in similar threads. It would be a constructive and positive thing to do. Why hasn’t it been done?

It has been done they said quite clearly you’ll have to do the skill challenges. You dont like well dont do it, systems change is expected, is it unfair? That is debatable personally i don’t feel wronged in anyway all of my alts have 70+ skill challenges and under 50% map complete. Yes you have lost progress … kinda.. on your alt toon I suppose in … WvW i guess because PvErs arent going to be complaining about this. An as for the ppl with 14 toons for god knows what reason, half your toons arent honestly functional in the 1st place. You will not have access to 2 trait lines if you have done 0 skill challenges (god knows how, and if you say well i lvl my character in pvp well … keep it in pvp problem solved.) everything else will be unlocked or rather can be unlocked just by hitting 80.

Made a topic about it before stream day, you might want to check on the last answers :

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skills-Traits-Refund

Healix.5819:

First, let’s categorize skill points. There are two types, ones that were legitimately earned and those that were farmed.

Not sure if a troll, but if you think that getting skillpoints from sPvP, the way devs wanted sPvP players get skillpoints, was for some reason illegitimate…
Unless there were skillpoints that were obtained with some kind of a glitch or exploit (and i haven’t heard of any), every one of them is legitimate. Those from scrolls and 80+ levelling as well.

PvP has everything unlocked with the new change so if you are a PvP player you have even less cause for complaint.

commnagrom.8637:

Tachenon.5270:

Seems to me it would take very little effort for the devs to allay — or confirm — the concerns expressed here and in similar threads. It would be a constructive and positive thing to do. Why hasn’t it been done?

because ANET has made them devs not talk about ANYTHING until it was done because of past fiascos

From what I’ve seen, the past fiascos happened entirely because they didn’t talk about it until it was too late for them to be willing to discard it.

Astralporing.1957:

Healix.5819:

First, let’s categorize skill points. There are two types, ones that were legitimately earned and those that were farmed.

Not sure if a troll, but if you think that getting skillpoints from sPvP, the way devs wanted sPvP players get skillpoints, was for some reason illegitimate…
Unless there were skillpoints that were obtained with some kind of a glitch or exploit (and i haven’t heard of any), every one of them is legitimate. Those from scrolls and 80+ levelling as well.

the wording is poor, but i think the idea is correct. Basically anet decided they were too liberal with skill points which messed up them being used for skill progression.
This is why they started pricing additional skills at like 25, and had traits with such high skill point costs (360 for all traits)
making it super easy for old players and too hard for newbs, who actually need it.

they basically by limiting it to skill challenges and leveling, they can keep it accessible and expandable.

they are seperating out the class progression, from the post 80 grind part of skill points, which makes sense

phys.7689:

they are seperating out the class progression, from the post 80 grind part of skill points, which makes sense

It does make sense, and could have been implemented in such a way to adjust it going foward, without rolling back characters of what they’ve already earned.

They could have introduced elite specializations with hero point and hero challenges in the HoT zones, and left core specializations to be unlocked with skill points from all sources.

At this point, it looks like, “Oops, we threw out way too many skill points, our mistake. But the players are the ones who get to pay for it.”

spoj.9672:

If you played since release surely you have some skill challenges done in the maps while you were leveling? Which means you will be fine.

As for giving all current 80’s everything. That wont work. Hero points are supposed to be a finite number. So if you havent done all the skillpoints already and you get everything unlocked for free then you are going to have more hero points than any new characters. Which breaks the idea of a fixed amount of hero points per character.

Honestly i dont get the complaint. It would take about an hour at best to get those 65 extra skill challenges for one character. Suck it up its not the end of the world.

My main has world completion, my 17 alts do not.17 * 3 hours (possibly more, to unlock elite specializations) = 51 hours: more than a full-time work week. That I would have to spend to unlock what I had already unlocked, spending lots and lots of hours in PvP.

51+ hours of repetitive grind to catch up = not cool.

I have 8 characters, one of each profession (really 9, but that one’s just filling a slot that will go to my Rev, if I end up buying HoT). I use all of them on a regular basis, so I don’t consider any of them “alts”. I also do several different areas of the game, so I’ll need access to more than three trait lines and one or two skill types so I can adapt to suit what I’m doing.

About half of them have over 100 skill challenges done. Two are within spitting distance of 65. The other two have single digits.

It took me about 30 minutes to run 10 skill challenges the other day on one of the 50 challenge characters.

With roughly 150 skill challenges left to get all my characters unlocked, that looks like about 7 hours of work just to get back to what I already earned. And I do a lot of running around the open world.

It’s terrible for those who are more focused on WvW.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

spoj.9672:

If you played since release surely you have some skill challenges done in the maps while you were leveling? Which means you will be fine.

As for giving all current 80’s everything. That wont work. Hero points are supposed to be a finite number. So if you havent done all the skillpoints already and you get everything unlocked for free then you are going to have more hero points than any new characters. Which breaks the idea of a fixed amount of hero points per character.

Honestly i dont get the complaint. It would take about an hour at best to get those 65 extra skill challenges for one character. Suck it up its not the end of the world.

My main has world completion, my 17 alts do not.17 * 3 hours (possibly more, to unlock elite specializations) = 51 hours: more than a full-time work week. That I would have to spend to unlock what I had already unlocked, spending lots and lots of hours in PvP.

51+ hours of repetitive grind to catch up = not cool.

Do you really not have any skill challenges done on all those alts? And do you really need to go through that on every one of them? You certainly dont need to rush. And you can do them now 30 mins a day. Issue solved before it even becomes an issue. It shouldnt take more than 3 hours to rush to 65 skill points. And im confident it can be a lot faster.

Im going to have to do skill challenges on about 6 of my alts. But i dont see that as a cause for complaint. My concern is the huge amounts of gold i spent last month on buying the rest of my traits for those less used classes. :P

spoj.9672:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

spoj.9672:

If you played since release surely you have some skill challenges done in the maps while you were leveling? Which means you will be fine.

As for giving all current 80’s everything. That wont work. Hero points are supposed to be a finite number. So if you havent done all the skillpoints already and you get everything unlocked for free then you are going to have more hero points than any new characters. Which breaks the idea of a fixed amount of hero points per character.

Honestly i dont get the complaint. It would take about an hour at best to get those 65 extra skill challenges for one character. Suck it up its not the end of the world.

My main has world completion, my 17 alts do not.17 * 3 hours (possibly more, to unlock elite specializations) = 51 hours: more than a full-time work week. That I would have to spend to unlock what I had already unlocked, spending lots and lots of hours in PvP.

51+ hours of repetitive grind to catch up = not cool.

Do you really not have any skill challenges done on all those alts? And do you really need to go through that on every one of them? You certainly dont need to rush. And you can do them now 30 mins a day. Issue solved before it even becomes an issue. It shouldnt take more than 3 hours to rush to 65 skill points. And im confident it can be a lot faster.

Im going to have to do skill challenges on about 6 of my alts. But i dont see that as a cause for complaint. My concern is the huge amounts of gold i spent last month on buying the rest of my traits for those less used classes. :P

Most (not all) of my alts have never left their home city (except to travel to Lion’s Arch maybe), I really leveled them with tomes and skills scrolls. On the alts that have done some traveling around (to dungeon entrances or whatever), skill challenges were not at all a priority so I ignored them completely…

And yes, I am aware that I can do it bit by bit – but that doesn’t change the fact that it still totals 50+ hours of doing something I don’t want to do. It doesn’t matter if I do them in one go or spread out over many days, 50 horus is 50 hours.

That is 50 hours out of my leisure time that I want to spend in PvP, dungeons, guild missions, or doing the story on my main – that I want to use to do fun things, not chores.

I realize that fun things means something different to everybody, and if ANet introduce something new that I don’t enjoy, I have no problem simply not doing it. But usually that doesn’t go hand in hand with taking away progress I already made on my existing characters, so I’m not forced to do it in order to catch up with what I already had.

Do you use all those characters in WvW? Thats the only way i see it being an issue. If they are PvP you get everything. If they just sit in cities you dont need anything. If you do dungeons and guildmissions i suspect you have waypoints to get the skillpoints pretty fast. And i honestly cant imagine you have a need for 17 alts for anything other than cosmetic purposes. So surely it doesnt matter for most of them?

I know its annoying. But i dont really see a way round it. Blame anet for introducing an abundance of skillpoints to the game. I think you are just going to have to suck it up. The system afterwards will be better anyway. People are just too used to getting everything unlocked through scrolls.

spoj.9672:

Do you use all those characters in WvW? Thats the only way i see it being an issue. If they are PvP you get everything. If they just sit in cities you dont need anything. If you do dungeons and guildmissions i suspect you have waypoints to get the skillpoints pretty fast. And i honestly cant imagine you have a need for 17 alts for anything other than cosmetic purposes. So surely it doesnt matter for most of them?

I know its annoying. But i dont really see a way round it. Blame anet for introducing an abundance of skillpoints to the game. I think you are just going to have to suck it up. The system afterwards will be better anyway. People are just too used to getting everything unlocked through scrolls.

Thos are valid questions.

No, in fact I don’t WvW at all – and I recognize that WvW players will be hit by this even harder than weird PvP-PvE hybrid players like me.

I almost exclusiely play my main in PvE. I love PvE. I love exploring, I love playing through the story, and all that. On my main. When after 3000+ hours I more or less ran out of things to do in PvE, I started spending more and more time in PvP. Tomes and skill scrolls were raining from the skies, so I finally leveled my first set of alts (one of everything) to 80. Do they need PvE skill and trait unlocks and PvE gear in PvP? Of course not.

The reason I have 1-of-everything PvE-ready is that I want to be able to swtich to one of them in a pinch when I need to. That includes the use of the characters in dungeons and fractals, but, importantly, also for achievements (such as Queen’s Gauntlet and Living World achievements). While I do most achievements on my main, sometimes a specific class and build are what makes it possible. So that’s what I use my alts for. In the future that will include the ability to switch in and out of elite specializations along with the rest of the skills/traits.

I’m not cranky that future characters will have to unlock skill challenges for hero points. So be it. I’m cranky that my existing, geared and traited and read-to-use characters are downgraded by the upgrade. I spent time and energy getting them to where they are now, and I don’t want to spend the same time and effort on the same characters again, doing menial tasks for weeks, to regain their usefulness.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

I’m not cranky that future characters will have to unlock skill challenges for hero points. So be it. I’m cranky that my existing, geared and traited and read-to-use characters are downgraded by the upgrade. I spent time and energy getting them to where they are now, and I don’t want to spend the same time and effort on the same characters again, doing menial tasks for weeks, to regain their usefulness.

That’s the crux, right there. Saying 65 challenges isn’t that much misses the point. Judging how many alts is excessive is also off the mark.

It really comes down to whether ArenaNet wants to communicate to their player base that progress can be reset whenever they decide to change things up. Do they really want to make us second-guess playing because any effort we put in might removed at some later date?

So, I have 25 characters across 2 accounts, all of 1 of which has 100% map completion. 2 others also have between 50 and 60%. All of the rest have <15%, with most being around 7-9%, and most all of that being the stuff that got unlocked when I ran each of them to every dungeon entrance. I use most of them for dungeons regularly (sometimes I try to play a different class for each dungeon when I tour), a couple for WvW, and a couple exclusively for soloing. If I have to get 65 skill challenges done on 22 characters after the core specs update just to be able to switch in any skill/trait I need for any given encounter, I’m going to be pretty kittened off.

If you already have the skill challenges done you wont have to do anything. They arent resetting anyones map completion. The people complaining are those that literally just scroll leveled and unlocked everything.

spoj.9672:

If you already have the skill challenges done you wont have to do anything. They arent resetting anyones map completion. The people complaining are those that literally just scroll leveled and unlocked everything.

Any reason you make this sound like it’s not a legitimate way of leveling a character? ANet deliberately added tomes and skill scrolls to PvP, and skill scrolls to WvW, specifically to enable players to level their characters this way.

I know and i wouldnt have most of the alts i have if it werent for that. The skillpoint system and unlock system is being separated from levels. And it effects me quite a lot aswell. Especially with the amount of gold i wasted. But i can accept it. Mainly because realistically there is no solution other than giving us gold and skill point refunds. But that doesnt solve the unlock issue for characters that havent done those skill challenges. So you just have to accept it.

spoj.9672:

I know its annoying. But i dont really see a way round it. Blame anet for introducing an abundance of skillpoints to the game. I think you are just going to have to suck it up. The system afterwards will be better anyway. People are just too used to getting everything unlocked through scrolls.

Of course there’s a way around it anyone at level 80 has all traits and abilities unlocked apart from the new elite spec.

As I noted previous Mike O’Brien PROMISED that no-ones progress would be reset.

morrolan.9608:

As I noted previous Mike O’Brien PROMISED that no-ones progress would be reset.

Link please?

Nike.2631:

morrolan.9608:

As I noted previous Mike O’Brien PROMISED that no-ones progress would be reset.

Link please?

Watch the HoT announcement video, and Mike’s statement in it. It’s one of the first things he says.

The one that says “Your max level, top-tier geared characters today will still be max level top-tier geared tomorrow”?

Because I’d say those promises focus on exactly what they focus on: character level and gear.

The entire point of the mastery system is to give you stuff to work towards from now ‘til the servers go dark. Maybe they’ll grandfather skills (and maybe they won’t) but clinging to a speech that focused on how well they delivered on “the manifesto” should give you some small inkling of how finely they can shave definitions of “delivered on our promises”.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

spoj.9672:

If you already have the skill challenges done you wont have to do anything. They arent resetting anyones map completion. The people complaining are those that literally just scroll leveled and unlocked everything.

Any reason you make this sound like it’s not a legitimate way of leveling a character? ANet deliberately added tomes and skill scrolls to PvP, and skill scrolls to WvW, specifically to enable players to level their characters this way.

nah you are forgetting something, the same time they added skill scrolls to pvp, they had already planned a system by which you had to spend 360 more skill points and 43 gold to get traits. per charachter, or you could go out into pve and hunt them.

Point being they didnt really intend you to be able to fully unlock a charachter without great cost or playing pve.

the old system doesnt fit in with the new system at all. Various changes/grandfathering lead to unintended results of players having charachters progress with out the planned effort.
Even if they do have a grandfather plan, speaking about it ahead of time will probably lead to people trying to game the system.

morrolan.9608:

spoj.9672:

I know its annoying. But i dont really see a way round it. Blame anet for introducing an abundance of skillpoints to the game. I think you are just going to have to suck it up. The system afterwards will be better anyway. People are just too used to getting everything unlocked through scrolls.

Of course there’s a way around it anyone at level 80 has all traits and abilities unlocked apart from the new elite spec.

As I noted previous Mike O’Brien PROMISED that no-ones progress would be reset.

forget promises, look at reality, peoples progress already has been reset.

• explorer stats ceased to exist (yeah they gave you some other stats, but if you were an explorer, you lost magic find, that you had to work towards in a new way)
• the fractal reset
• the second trait system pushed back unlocks to higher levels
  so if you were say 60, and had all your grandmasters, you got reset back until you reached 80

GW2 has been a reset progress game for some time. I mean its a good discussion to have, but frame it properly. This isnt new, this is business as usual.

phys.7689:

• the second trait system pushed back unlocks to higher levels
  so if you were say 60, and had all your grandmasters, you got reset back until you reached 80

Yeah but lvl 80s didn’t have their progress reset. So it should be the same here. And Mike O’Brien specifically said it about HOT.

I have 14 lv 80 toons. I rage-quit (for a year!) after they made it so that I had to unlock new skills when every toon after I had had them ALL unlocked. I WILL NOT mess around with all the BS unlocking busywork again. I think existing toons with everything unlocked (i.e. all 14 of mine) should be grandfathered in. Do they really want everyone to quit because they are forcing us into dull, repetitive, BORING maps over again in order to make it interesting for new players? Quite an anti-marketing campaign if you ask me. =/

Anet can’t do this!?
They wouldn’t really do this?

Charge us for an expansion pack that will degrade our characters.

Thats just screaming “find another game”
Exacly what i’m going to do if that plays out.

alwinp.2791:

Anet can’t do this!?
They wouldn’t really do this?

Charge us for an expansion pack that will degrade our characters.

Thats just screaming “find another game”
Exacly what i’m going to do if that plays out.

And it won’t. If you took a few minutes to read the blog you would know that wasn’t the case. This whole thread is people being lazy and paranoid and blowing things out of proportion.

Ralanost.8913:

alwinp.2791:

Anet can’t do this!?
They wouldn’t really do this?

Charge us for an expansion pack that will degrade our characters.

Thats just screaming “find another game”
Exacly what i’m going to do if that plays out.

And it won’t. If you took a few minutes to read the blog you would know that wasn’t the case. This whole thread is people being lazy and paranoid and blowing things out of proportion.

yeah really everyone on this threat is kittened, i cant believe this is something to complain about jesus christ you people should just quit and play another game, please leave like holy crap, it’s a free game what more do you want? greedy pieces of kittens

I have 17 lvl 80s, of which 8 predated the NGE changes and 9 followed. All of my characters had already run to Orr so I had at least a minimal WP chain. Many bought their traits for gold but Meh I used those traits so it was value.

It has been taking me around 2-3 hrs from single figures to 70 Skillpoints a character, noting that WvWvW skillpoints are not shown in the map complete tally.

I now have 14 chars with 70+ pve map skillpoints and am fairly weary hehehe.

I would like to know if lvl 80 + 70 Hero points is enough or whether I need more for the Elite skills or specialisation. A clear target to aim for would be appreciated.

morrolan.9608:

phys.7689:

• the second trait system pushed back unlocks to higher levels
  so if you were say 60, and had all your grandmasters, you got reset back until you reached 80

Yeah but lvl 80s didn’t have their progress reset. So it should be the same here. And Mike O’Brien specifically said it about HOT.

Even last trait change didn’t affect level 80s, I bet this will do.

Mike O’Brien said that HOT is not affecting max geared character, but we have to remember that this first part of trait and skill Specialization will come BEFORE HoT. Only Elite Specialization will come with HoT. So what ever Mike O’Brian said about game AFTER HoT, is not concluded this first part of Specialization. So they can do what ever they want with this first part of Specialization. They can reset all progress with traits and skills with this first part of Specialization, even from level 80s.

I hope ArenaNet would comment, is our worst fear going to come true.

• Is all those money, time and skill points really wasted what we have done with this new trait system?
• Are we going to be compensated somehow?
• And most of all, Is this new trait and skill Specialization, what is going out before HoT, going to reset all traits and skills?
• Do we really need to hunt at least 65 skill challenges / hero challenges with all our characters to get our core game traits and skill back?

I have 9 characters with world completion, Been There Done That.

If I need to do all skill challenges again would make me very annoyed.
The other 6 have 40+% world generally while ignoring hearts, doing skillpoints, and getting Poi’s and WP’s, So I guess I should have 15 chars ready from the start….

Also all traits and specs have allways been available since launch for PvP…

I guess the WvW community will have the worst problems with the 9 SP available. unless WVW unlock would give the same advantages as World Completion…

“Breach of trust”? You still trusted Arenanet?

Just make it so existing level 80s have enough to unlock everything… nobody cares for exploring maps we have explored tens or hundreds of times already. Thank you.

You all saw the reaction on NPE locking traits behind either spending gold and skill points or going PvE… nobody liked it, not even new players. So for the sake of having a non-grindy game, scrap the idea of locking stuff.

IMO, the best means to hero points is simply to have the greater of:
(1) (400) for level 80 + any old skillpoint challenges unlocked
or
(2) 465

If your character is less than 80, it should be #1 only with prorated level for points.

This way veterans won’t feel snubbed and will be at least be at the level they were at before HoT in progression with thier characters.

Leonhardt.8164:

Ralanost.8913:

alwinp.2791:

Anet can’t do this!?
They wouldn’t really do this?

Charge us for an expansion pack that will degrade our characters.

Thats just screaming “find another game”
Exacly what i’m going to do if that plays out.

And it won’t. If you took a few minutes to read the blog you would know that wasn’t the case. This whole thread is people being lazy and paranoid and blowing things out of proportion.

yeah really everyone on this threat is kittened, i cant believe this is something to complain about jesus christ you people should just quit and play another game, please leave like holy crap, it’s a free game what more do you want? greedy pieces of kittens

1. It’s not a free game, you have to buy it FIRST in order to play
2. Greedy? i’m not greedy, i just wanna keep the things I already have
3. because making old players redo old content is really going to make the game come back to life, right?

Valid arguements are given here.
And note that my posts was also written in a bit of sarcastic manner.

I don’t really expect Anet to degrade our characters. But if that happens, the results are written in this thread over & over by now.

Keep in mind some of us are here since launch, we have asked for a lot of things that never happend. There’s a point where players become mature & civil enough to realise they are just being screwed over and they leave

Also

The process of leveling to 80 will award about 400 Hero Points, so players will only need to complete a fraction of the available hero challenges to have enough points to unlock everything. The system is designed to give players access to skills and traits much faster than in the current system

So thats why everyone has piles of scrolls stocked up in their bank, right?

They already explained this in the video.

If you have a lvl 80 character already that means you have a set number of skills and traits unlocked already. For each skill point and trait attribute you currently have you will get hero points. So when the expansion launches your character will have hero points equivalent to the current power of that character.

Since the wallet is account wide players will then have the option of either reallocating those points to make their characters equally powerful as they were, or make one character immediately super powerful, which would then result in your other toons being less powerful.

The whole point of the expansion is to play it. If you just respent those hero points to make your characters the same power level as they were before there won’t be any difference between now and then.

Most of these posts sound like “I got a level 80 guy, so I shouldn’t have to play anymore to unlock all the cool stuff from the expansion!”

That’s just silly. Why would all your characters immediately have all the additional powers and traits from the new expansion without even playing it? Level 80 might be the level cap, but seriously if you never did any skill challenges and stopped playing once you hit lvl 80, your toon wouldn’t have all the core skills, elite skills, and traits unlocked anyway. So why should a character who didn’t have enough skill points to even be maxed out in the first place suddenly get enough points to get all the expansion skills as well?

Just buy the expansion and play it. You’ll get to unlock all the traits at the same rate as everyone else who plays, so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

Derenek.8931:

Most of these posts sound like “I got a level 80 guy, so I shouldn’t have to play anymore to unlock all the cool stuff from the expansion!”

I haven’t seen anyone asking for enough Hero Points to unlock the new elite specializations from the expansion. We just don’t want to lose access to core game stuff we already have because there’s a shiny new way to earn them.

but seriously if you never did any skill challenges and stopped playing once you hit lvl 80, your toon wouldn’t have all the core skills, elite skills, and traits unlocked anyway. So why should a character who didn’t have enough skill points to even be maxed out in the first place suddenly get enough points to get all the expansion skills as well?

Because people who have leveled in ways other than open world exploration were given skill point scrolls they used to unlock skills. If our characters were created before the new trait system, they unlocked traits by purchasing trait manuals from their profession trainer. If they were created after, they either went and did things like specific events to unlock them or paid more skill points and gold to unlock them.

It’s very possible to have characters who are max unlocked in the current system, without having done a single skill challenge.

And to repeat, I haven’t seen anyone expecting to be given enough Hero Points to unlock expansion content.

Just buy the expansion and play it. You’ll get to unlock all the traits at the same rate as everyone else who plays, so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

That’s not true.

About half my characters have enough skill challenges done that when the system changes they will still have access to all core skills and traits. On day one of HoT launch they will be ready to start getting Hero Points toward elite specializations.

On the other half, however, I will need to go back and re-earn some of the trait unlocks and skill unlocks they already have.

That’s why people are unhappy.

It’s not a matter of wanting the new content for free. We just don’t want the old content we already earned taken away.

Gibson.4036:

Derenek.8931:

Most of these posts sound like “I got a level 80 guy, so I shouldn’t have to play anymore to unlock all the cool stuff from the expansion!”

I haven’t seen anyone asking for enough Hero Points to unlock the new elite specializations from the expansion. We just don’t want to lose access to core game stuff we already have because there’s a shiny new way to earn them.

but seriously if you never did any skill challenges and stopped playing once you hit lvl 80, your toon wouldn’t have all the core skills, elite skills, and traits unlocked anyway. So why should a character who didn’t have enough skill points to even be maxed out in the first place suddenly get enough points to get all the expansion skills as well?

Because people who have leveled in ways other than open world exploration were given skill point scrolls they used to unlock skills. If our characters were created before the new trait system, they unlocked traits by purchasing trait manuals from their profession trainer. If they were created after, they either went and did things like specific events to unlock them or paid more skill points and gold to unlock them.

It’s very possible to have characters who are max unlocked in the current system, without having done a single skill challenge.

And to repeat, I haven’t seen anyone expecting to be given enough Hero Points to unlock expansion content.

Just buy the expansion and play it. You’ll get to unlock all the traits at the same rate as everyone else who plays, so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

That’s not true.

About half my characters have enough skill challenges done that when the system changes they will still have access to all core skills and traits. On day one of HoT launch they will be ready to start getting Hero Points toward elite specializations.

On the other half, however, I will need to go back and re-earn some of the trait unlocks and skill unlocks they already have.

That’s why people are unhappy.

It’s not a matter of wanting the new content for free. We just don’t want the old content we already earned taken away.

No matter how your characters got those skill and trait points, whether it was from skill challenges or tomes, those points will be on their character. So when those points are refunded into hero points those should still be there. I’m not sure how anyone would lose any skill points that they actually have.

So basically saying, you got your guy to level 80 through PvP and crafting. That gives him 400 points. Then he unlocked the rest of his skills using scrolls and tomes. The end result is exactly the same. You have a character with X skill+trait points. Those points are then converted to hero points. Nothing is lost. How your toon got their skills isn’t as important as how many skills and traits they actually have when the refund happens.

In actuality, those characters who leveled up with books actually have an advantage over regular characters. While the res of us have to search through all the maps looking for the skill points we might have somehow missed along the way, scroll and PvP leveled characters will not only have all their points converted to hero points, they also have the entire game’s worth of skill challenges to ramp themselves up even faster and easier than normal players.

The only reason that a character would have to do extra skill challenges is if they weren’t maxed out to begin with. So it’s just a matter of leveling up like any other expansion pack for any game.

Gibson.4036:

It’s not a matter of wanting the new content for free. We just don’t want the old content we already earned taken away.

But they’re not taking away your points for doing the skill point challenges.

Skill points earned from leveling & in-game challenges – character progression.
Skill points earned from skill point scrolls – bonus.

The bonus skill points are still earned and can be used as currency. The character progression points are still there and can be applied to the skill & trait lines when they’re redone.

Your progression isn’t being taken away. The journey your character has gone on will still remain in-tact. And the fact remains that just leveling to 80 will get you several builds so even those that only level in WvW will still have some options. Yeah they won’t get every option, so they’ll have to choose how to allocate those points. Like it or not, the game is still centered around PvE and that’s how character progression is being defined.

Derenek.8931:

Gibson.4036:

Derenek.8931:

Most of these posts sound like “I got a level 80 guy, so I shouldn’t have to play anymore to unlock all the cool stuff from the expansion!”

I haven’t seen anyone asking for enough Hero Points to unlock the new elite specializations from the expansion. We just don’t want to lose access to core game stuff we already have because there’s a shiny new way to earn them.

but seriously if you never did any skill challenges and stopped playing once you hit lvl 80, your toon wouldn’t have all the core skills, elite skills, and traits unlocked anyway. So why should a character who didn’t have enough skill points to even be maxed out in the first place suddenly get enough points to get all the expansion skills as well?

Because people who have leveled in ways other than open world exploration were given skill point scrolls they used to unlock skills. If our characters were created before the new trait system, they unlocked traits by purchasing trait manuals from their profession trainer. If they were created after, they either went and did things like specific events to unlock them or paid more skill points and gold to unlock them.

It’s very possible to have characters who are max unlocked in the current system, without having done a single skill challenge.

And to repeat, I haven’t seen anyone expecting to be given enough Hero Points to unlock expansion content.

Just buy the expansion and play it. You’ll get to unlock all the traits at the same rate as everyone else who plays, so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

That’s not true.

About half my characters have enough skill challenges done that when the system changes they will still have access to all core skills and traits. On day one of HoT launch they will be ready to start getting Hero Points toward elite specializations.

On the other half, however, I will need to go back and re-earn some of the trait unlocks and skill unlocks they already have.

That’s why people are unhappy.

It’s not a matter of wanting the new content for free. We just don’t want the old content we already earned taken away.

No matter how your characters got those skill and trait points, whether it was from skill challenges or tomes, those points will be on their character. So when those points are refunded into hero points those should still be there. I’m not sure how anyone would lose any skill points that they actually have.

So basically saying, you got your guy to level 80 through PvP and crafting. That gives him 400 points. Then he unlocked the rest of his skills using scrolls and tomes. The end result is exactly the same. You have a character with X skill+trait points. Those points are then converted to hero points. Nothing is lost. How your toon got their skills isn’t as important as how many skills and traits they actually have when the refund happens.

In actuality, those characters who leveled up with books actually have an advantage over regular characters. While the res of us have to search through all the maps looking for the skill points we might have somehow missed along the way, scroll and PvP leveled characters will not only have all their points converted to hero points, they also have the entire game’s worth of skill challenges to ramp themselves up even faster and easier than normal players.

The only reason that a character would have to do extra skill challenges is if they weren’t maxed out to begin with. So it’s just a matter of leveling up like any other expansion pack for any game.

I’m not precisely sure that’s how it will work. Because it does give certain characters a bit of an unfair advantage. It also sort of breaks the point of hero points being a limited resource, since those people would potentially end up with the ability to have more than the definitive cap anet set in place.

My best guess is that some people are going to end up having to go out and do skill challenges to get those 65 points back or the first 65 challenges they do won’t actually reward hero points, but mats instead as the work off their ‘debt.’

I think the conversion from HP to mats is for people with all lvl 80 alts that are all maxed at 465 pts. If you have two characters with 500 points worth of skill points and the other three only have 200 points worth, your account total won’t be anywhere near max. (Remember all currencies are account wide) So the maximum number of hero points an account can have is 6(465). Since most players won’t have a full six completely maxed out characters I don’t see HP for mats exchanges happening for most players.

Derenek you have misunderstood some stuff and have a few things wrong.

They said they are converting skillpoints to mats. Not hero points. Hero points will be a finite set earned through skill challenges and leveling. If you have enough skill challenges done you wont need to do any extra to unlock all the core stuff. The extra hero points you earn through skill challenges are for you to spend on future specs and unlocks such as the new elite specs. So you will be able to have more than 465. 465 is just the predicted requirement to unlock all the core stuff.

One thing im not sure about is whether hero points are account bound or not. If they are then just having 1 character with map completion will actually fully cover more than a couple of characters for unlocking all the core stuff. If hero points are character bound then currently every character will have a maximum of about 600 hero points if they have map completion done. And it will increase with the new maps in HoT.

They said skill points will be converted to hero points. Then any excess will be converted to mats. Since most players won’t be anywhere near the skill point to Hero point cap, that probably won’t happen often