Guild Wars 2

I know a lot of people think that rarity is value which is understandable they have something other do not and makes them feel special.
But anet will never do that because they will go bankrupt if they do that.

Yppah.2157:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

They said veterans will get that slot if they prepurchase, and not everyone on purchase of HoT, after launch included.

That’s their problem then.

Yes, but some of customers’ problems are the reasons to look for another seller who will give them better service.

Macs.6814:

Once upon a time expansions used to cost 40 dollars (Eye Of the North) and came with 2 character slots.

EotN came with zero character slots. Perhaps you’re thinking of Factions and Nightfall, not expacs but new GW campaigns. Those came with 2 slots if you owned a previous campaign, more slots if you did not own a prior campaign (might have been 4, don’t quote me).

EotN did cost $40, but at the time, so did the paid xpacs for that other game. So, prices went up over the course of 8 years. Shocking, I know. So have other things, sometimes by a lot more than 25%.

Haiki.9178:

Yes, but some of customers’ problems are the reasons to look for another seller who will give them better service.

I am yet to find any MMO out there that offers the amount of bang for my buck as Anet has offered with GW2. I have no reason what so ever to doubt HoT will be any different.

The trouble is, some people only enjoy a very small part of the whole game, and so to them the price is not worth it. This is not Anet’s fault, and it does not mean the expansion will be small. It is inevitable that some will not be happy, no matter what Anet does. And these people will jump on the forums to rant and rave about their ills. This is not uncommon.

Anet needs to offer a variety of activities, for a diverse group of players, and for the most part I think Anet has achieved that with great success. Better than many of their competitors. Will HoT offer enough content to be worth the price tag? Like I say, there is nothing in the information given, or my experiences in game since launch, that have given me any reason to think we will not be happy with what we pay for. Personally, I struggle to understand why people think HoT will not be worth the price, as it seems very clear to me it will be.

Ricky.4706:

“The core game has no value. "

totally and completely oblivious to all the man hours put into keeping it up to date.

Maintenance and updates are part of the value added for the initial purchase. That work was paid for mostly — if not completely — by gem revenue, however. With a virtual store model, the company needs to keep people interested to pump sales of virtual currency.

If you really want to estimate the current value ANet attributes to GW2 core, you need only look at what they’re doing with it. They seem to think they’ll make more money selling HoT to new players who would not buy if they also had to buy core. Some percentage of new players would have bought GW2 core and HoT if not bundled. Also, even with an XPac, new players are going to represent a fraction of HoT sales. No way to prove it, but I’d guess they’re a small fraction. All of that suggests that sales of core have not been producing a lot of revenue this year.

At some point, old software gets tossed in bargain bins. Sometime after that, it gets phased out altogether. What ANet is saying if you read between the lines is that that point has arrived.

This is just a general point (not related directly to recent discussion).
But if you’re comparing expansion prices (again not the best idea).
Heavensward the new FFXIV expansion costs 35 euro for the base version , 50 euro for the collector (digital) version.

So the people saying expansion are always 50 euro are talking about the collector version, which in GW2 case is deluxe which costs 75 euro or a 50% increase in comparable price.

I assume someone will make the point of subscription versus cash shop, but in the end it’s the same in the purpose to cover costs so pricing should be relatively similar.

The key issue in the core + HoT, as I see it, is that core doesn’t exist anymore. The fact that neither GW2 core game nor HoT can be purchased alone, leads to conclusion that HoT is NOT an expansion – because there is nothing to expand upon. HoT IS the new core game.. GW2 v2, or however you want to call it. It’s principally no different than say, Star Trek Online: Iconian War. It’s the new chapter in GW2 base game.

The problem is that you have to buy that new ‘base game’ again, regardless of whether or not you had the game prior to it. The business model – as it’s explained in the blog – is to do the same over again with every future expansion.

While it has not been stated in this manner, it is still in my opinion same as:

‘The price of GW2 is the price of access to game and it’s features and updates from the time of purchase, up to release of the next major update at the unspecified day in future. Upon release of next major update you will need to purchase the game again to retain full access to it’s updated features. Failure to do so will limit your access to new content’.

Essentially the price of whatever version is current, is your ‘subscription’ to the game until next ‘chapter’. If you don’t pay that ‘subscription’, you will go into ‘F2P’ mode, where you can keep playing, but have limited access to the newer content.

Whether that’s right, or reasonable is a matter of opinion, or perception. Another way to look at it would be around $15 a year for ‘subscription’, with ‘free expansions’. Towards the end of life of particular version the prices go down – so you can access the current version cheaper.. but also get less game time (before next version) from buying it.

The problem is though, that you don’t really know how long your ‘subscription’ will last. The next ‘expansion’ might roll out in another 3 years.. or it might come in 6 months. If there’s no particular reason why you’d have to buy it the day it launches, then there isn’t a huge problem with that. Right now the character slot (since it’s tied to pre-purchase only) is one thing that compels you to get the expansion right away. Another one might be the living world story access, but that depends on how it will be delivered post-launch.

@IndigoSundown.5419 – understood and agreed, but this is also what is causing a bad perception – aka people saying anet is being sneaky. Imo , they weren’t being sneaky, they were being subtle about recouping those costs.

I’ve been observing anet for a long time, nothing sneaky about them, if anything, they have been very generous, but the overall presentation did not cause the audience to understand the value of the time invested. if you throw it in a bag, it’s considered part of a package …..it could be twinkies or a rolex…but the package is whatever is bundled in the paper bag lol

I gatta say I’m not really interested in the new map, I’ve seen enough jungle’s in the base game already, I wish they did something new like a volcanic land or something more alien.

nathanjameson.3542:

simple math = “hey they’re getting something i’m not wah wah wah”

I sincerely wish I were in the same position as you, to blindly ignore what is being stated to aimlessly defend what was an approach that has evidently backfired on them. Yet even when the company themselves take a step back to remedy the situation, you white knighters remain steadfast, clinging to whatever absurd illogical pile of rubbish that you have collected as ‘reasonable arguments’. Alas, you then reduce them into ad hominems containing redundant remarks such as “entitlement” or as in the quoted post, spewing absolute nonsense. One can only asume that this boils down to not an inability to understand, but rather unwillingness to perceive things from another angle as your zealous view must be the one and only truth.

You’re behaving as if its a religion, get over yourself and accept that the deal was something that alot of people were unhappy with, wether or not it is a majority is de facto besides the point. Enough of a portion of the players felt that the deal was bad enough that Arenanet had to do something about it.

Lue.6538:

You’re behaving as if its a religion, get over yourself and accept that the deal was something that alot of people were unhappy with, wether or not it is a majority is de facto besides the point. Enough of a portion of the players felt that the deal was bad enough that Arenanet had to do something about it.

The issue that most players had with the deal (myself included) has been addressed and amended. Before the announcement, I did not and was not planning to buy either the pre-order or the expansion. After the additional character slot, I was satisfied enough to.

Continued to insist that there remains an issue falls under the same mindset that you’re accusing me of…namely, mindless blind devotion to a cause that the majority of players don’t agree with.

nathanjameson.3542:

Lue.6538:

You’re behaving as if its a religion, get over yourself and accept that the deal was something that alot of people were unhappy with, wether or not it is a majority is de facto besides the point. Enough of a portion of the players felt that the deal was bad enough that Arenanet had to do something about it.

The issue that most players had with the deal (myself included) has been addressed and amended. Before the announcement, I did not and was not planning to buy either the pre-order or the expansion. After the additional character slot, I was satisfied enough to.

Continued to insist that there remains an issue falls under the same mindset that you’re accusing me of…namely, mindless blind devotion to a cause that the majority of players don’t agree with.

This is not the case. It depends entirely on what your problem with the deal was in the first place. If the issue was that you didn’t feel you got enough value for the cost, and you feel that a single character slot brings the value sufficiently high – then everything is fine for you.

If your problem was something else however, or if you feel that the addition doesn’t bring enough value to warrant the price for you, then nothing – or not enough – has changed for you.

If a frying pan was $50 in local store, but came bundled with complimentary bonsai tree, you might not be happy with the deal. More so if that was the only way you could buy a frying pan. If the store added a complimentary screwdriver if you buy within the next month, you still might not feel it’s a good deal. You might simply want the frying pan for $25.. and might settle for frying pan plus $25 gift card for $50.

@ Ricky

I agree on not sneaky, though not sure subtle works, either. I’d say, rather, that the company puts its public relations foot in its mouth due to communication issues they’ve demonstrated since shortly after launch.

You’re spot on with regard to this being a perception issue. I think that players attaching a value to core GW2 that ANet no longer is are focusing on a sideshow. To me, the cost of HoT is going to be $50 until and unless sometime past launch there’s a sale. That price will prevail even if complaining players force ANet to demonstrate the price is $50 by unbinding core from HoT. Based on what they’ve said, and past practices, HoT will still cost $50.

At that point, some of the same complainers will be back here, except they’ll be asking what ought to be the real question all along — does what HoT contain justify the price.

adormtil.1605:

I know a lot of people think that rarity is value which is understandable they have something other do not and makes them feel special.
But anet will never do that because they will go bankrupt if they do that.

no they wouldn’t lol ….all they’d have to do is create different colors ….

only 500 gold finisher bundles …….then 500 blue, then 500 black . green, red etc – people will appreciate the value of the colors.

It’s all about perception…….something has to be limited in quantity for it to appreciate in value. limited supply creates increased demand.

giving their work away free will make them bankrupt.

IndigoSundown.5419:

@ Ricky

I agree on not sneaky, though not sure subtle works, either. I’d say, rather, that the company puts its public relations foot in its mouth due to communication issues they’ve demonstrated since shortly after launch.

You’re spot on with regard to this being a perception issue. I think that players attaching a value to core GW2 that ANet no longer is are focusing on a sideshow. To me, the cost of HoT is going to be $50 until and unless sometime past launch there’s a sale. That price will prevail even if complaining players force ANet to demonstrate the price is $50 by unbinding core from HoT. Based on what they’ve said, and past practices, HoT will still cost $50.

At that point, some of the same complainers will be back here, except they’ll be asking what ought to be the real question all along — does what HoT contain justify the price.

I say subtle, because they did not force gem sales. They encouraged them by providing more product. but if for example, you could play free….but you had to buy downed state time by the hour ….else you would instantly die – that would be more provoked. ie – Good ole snake oil…..“This oil will prevent instant death and give you a chance to recover!!” a bottle lasts one month!!

they don’t play that.

Ricky.4706:

I say subtle, because they did not force gem sales. They encouraged them by providing more product. but if for example, you could play free….but you had to buy downed state time by the hour ….else you would instantly die – that would be more provoked. ie – Good ole snake oil…..“This oil will prevent instant death and give you a chance to recover!!” a bottle lasts one month!!

they don’t play that.

OK, I see what you mean. I’d call that a non-intrusive cash shop. And for me, the shop is not intrusive.

Healix.5819:

If they actually split the expansion from the core game, it would still be $49.99 because the core game by itself has no value. What they were selling a prior to HoT wasn’t just the core game, it was the core game + $20 worth of bonuses. Since they were selling it for only $10, that means that the core game by itself legitimately has no value. It’s too cheap to sell, so they repackage it instead.

That is the sad thing. The company is treating the core game as if it has NO value whatsoever – which it must if there is now a pending expansion. There will always be people who don’t really care about guild halls, and much/most of the “expansion” is actually skill re-working that goes into the core game.

What Anet has done is thrown a bare bone to the community wrapped in pretty paper with a bow and expect everyone to believe they really do listen and care about anything except $.

So many of these arguments are lost on me. But before I mildly rant, I’d like to say that there is a lot of good in GW2. There’s much I love. I’m just not stating it here.

But first, I’m confused as to all this free content that people keep talking about. Up until recently, most of the “content” has been minimal. Much if it has been nothing more than a-net attempting to fix the severe issues with the core of the game (and failing). This most recent specializations is nothing more than that. The PVE balance has always been horrible and this is their latest way to address just that. In the process, they amped everyone out taking easy-mode to super-dooper-easy-mode. Whereas there have been a few good living story updates over the past few years, most were either underwhelming or recycled.

A-Net has completely abandoned the core issues and at this point, they’ve snookered themselves into a position where they literally cannot fix them. They can’t create new dungeons that are difficult unless they actually fix the silliness of the existing dungeons. Therefore, they’ve trapped themselves into endless zerg-fests of 100 people shooting one boss. No challenge. No struggle.

They still have not delivered a fix for the remarkably anti-climactic storyline concluding fight.

Really look back everyone. In close to 3 years, the “free” content has been 2 new tiny maps. (I don’t count Southsun… it was comical at best). The rest have been improvements that act more as fixes to failures than anything else.

Before I get the finger from the super-fan-boys, I did say “most.” There have been a few worthy living story updates, but few create permanent content.

I suppose what I am saying is, A-Net does not deliver on their promises. They have proven, beyond any reasonable doubt, that a promise from them is equivalent to RNG. Roll a die and see if it actually happens.

There’s a lot I do like about this game and I am a fan-boy of the old GW1 (which is why I keep checking in on GW2). I will pay for this expansion, but for me it’s the last chance for them to actually follow through.

TLDR: I understand the trepidation. $50 for 3 zones and a high likelihood of lackluster updates and empty promises is frightening.

I totally understand everyone who feels the expansion is not worth the money at the moment. I feel like they are creating somekind of drag in releasing new info and the amount of info they release. Last week with guild halls I thought they were getting into a hurry to get all intel out before the release but this week I feel dissapointed about just getting some info on new LA. I like the new setting and all but I too want to know what more HoT has to offer to us.

I also think ANet is not very good in releasing their info for instance about the amount of maps there will be. In the interview either Bogotter or Aurora Peachy had with Colin Johanson he says only Verdant Brink has a Meta event which is created around the Day and Night cycle. This probably means there will be at least one map more. And yes I agree with you not everyone checks Bogotter or Aurora Peachy and so it is not the best place for ANet to share their information it should also be somehow available on their site in ANet style. Next to that I also kind of understand form snippets here and there (don’t pin me on anything and if you want prove just ignore my statement) ANet wants to keep as much as possible secret for us to explore it like all LS releases (how lackluster some of you found them). Everyone assumes the ((Exalted)) will be the Mursaat but it is still between double brackets to keep it kind of secret since double brakets means working name.

TLDR: Yes ANet is not doing a good job at convincing people to pre purchase HoT and their communication is not always through the right channels.

Galen Grey.4709:

tons of Ruines (0:34-0:45), Huge underground caves (1:00-1:06), some kind of temple (1:14)

You really expect all that is cramed in 1 single map, a single map which the beta already uncovered 1/4 of it and there is nothing looking like any of the above references areas?

this part is actually in the Verdant Brink. Bottom middle part of the map. Right before the circular “arena”.

I agree with everything else you said though.

FalconDance.1637:

Healix.5819:

If they actually split the expansion from the core game, it would still be $49.99 because the core game by itself has no value. What they were selling a prior to HoT wasn’t just the core game, it was the core game + $20 worth of bonuses. Since they were selling it for only $10, that means that the core game by itself legitimately has no value. It’s too cheap to sell, so they repackage it instead.

That is the sad thing. The company is treating the core game as if it has NO value whatsoever – which it must if there is now a pending expansion. There will always be people who don’t really care about guild halls, and much/most of the “expansion” is actually skill re-working that goes into the core game.

What Anet has done is thrown a bare bone to the community wrapped in pretty paper with a bow and expect everyone to believe they really do listen and care about anything except $.

He probably meant it has no cost.

Bubi.7942:

So.

This is a supposed picture of the back cover of the HoT box (it is from a well trusted if not the most trusted online retailer in my country).

https://cdgalaxis.hu/termekkepek/hatlap/pcg/pcg_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_standard_edition_pre_purchase_v1506.jpg

No mention on it of new PvE maps, “challenging group content”, PvP or WvW. If this cover is real then… this won’t end well.

It’s sad that people think such a link is a comprehensive description of what HoT offers because it’s not.

Ricky.4706:

imo , what backfired on them was making the game lower cost …..sure you can call it a 3 year old game …but the truth is , the engine was constantly updated ….so it’s an uptodate game.

Had they done that, selling the core game for 49.99 and giving the expansion pack for free would have had a better reception.

But since they devalued the core game because of the “Time made it old” illusion, it seems like less of a bargain. If you consider the man hours put into keeping the game updated with new content, the core engine is in fact very up to date. – else we’d still have old problems. just like an old game bought on CD after it gets finalized – then the ‘old’ perception would be correct. But gw2 is an ongoing effort.

when and if they make gw 2.1 – ie 64 bit dx 12 – they should never devalue it again. sale bargains, yes, depreciate no. perception is everything. it’s the difference between a tree and a door :p

“Time made it old” isn’t an illusion. Sales legitimately drop as time passes, as most of the potentially interested players grab the game during its first months, if not days.

In order to stimulate further sales after the first year or so, the price has to drop – either permanently or in “get it while it’s hot” sales. There’s no other way to make a significant return on box sales after this point, and even then, the gem store was no doubt their main source of income.

To say otherwise is to have no knowledge of how the game industry works.

HawkMeister.4758:

My information is DIRECTLY from ANet

They have actually shown us parts of at least two PvE maps outside of trailers, likely more if trailers are included, Verdant Brink and another unnamed map (during some of the pre-recorded footage of specializations during their streams).

This notion that whole HoT PvE constitutes of story and 1 map or story and 3 maps really should be cleared up by ArenaNet. They have said that HoT would include map wide mechanics similar to or evolved from Silverwastes and Dry Top concepts (breach and sandstorm) of which Verdant Brinks day night cycle meta event is an example of (only partially implemented in the betas afaik). This statement coupled with the little bit of detective work referenced above already supports that HoT will definitely have more than one map and likely more than three maps as well.

But ultimately it is upto ArenaNet to confirm this, that they have not done so probably means that they are not ready to talk about content beyond Verdant Brink for one reason or another. However, the fact that such content exists in development can not be disputed whether all of that content will end up shipping with HoT is something that we can’t say though (see Fortune’s Vale, not all developed content will ever ship).

Why are veteran players who don’t pre-purchase expected to delete one of their characters, with potentially 100s/1000s of hours invested, in order to enjoy the new class that’s part of the expac? Why are we expected to pay more than everyone else?

And more concerningly, why do you have such a low degree of respect for your existing players?

An expac that adds a class ought to come with a character slot for all, automatically.

What We Know

- 1 New Map (Verdant Brink)

• New Boss Fight (Wyvern)
• New Dynamic Events

- New Storyline

- Guild Halls

- Mastery System

• Precursor Crafting

- New Profession
- Elite Specialisations
- New Legendary Weapons

Speculation on my Part

- Multiple new PvE maps

• While only one has currently been revealed, the HoT website advertises new maps (plural) to explore.

- Instanced Content being the Challenging Group Content

• Colin made a comment on the open-world content experience not being what they referred to as the challenging group content, and that it hasn’t been discussed yet. Further into this, raids could be this content since they hired a raid designer.

- New Fractals

• There’s a Fractal Mastery Track. However, whether these are expansion-only or available to everyone (in order to not split the playerbase) is debatable.

Buy another character slot and you won’t have to delete a toon. If you can’t afford one right now, save 1 dollar for the next 10 days and you will be able to buy one. Or better yet save up some gold and transfer gold to gems and you won’t have to spend real life money.

OH MY GOD. IT’LL NEVER END.

We are entitled to nothing, and this was never about some misplaced sense of respect. Be glad we even have the chance for a free bonus with preorder.

Before they gave us the character slot I saved up some gold, used some real life money and bought 800 gems. It’s hard, but possible. You can do it too if you don’t want to prebuy.

Or you can wait to see if the expansion offer after release has a char slot. Just because they said the preorder has a slot doesn’t mean the post expansion offer won’t.

Galen Grey.4709:

That contrasts with other MMOs I’ve play were you hardly get any content updates while they develop an expansion and the content you get if any is generally dungeons you’re meant to repeat over and over and thats content I personally dont particularly enjoy.

We hardly got any content update while ArenaNet has been developing HoT, and what we got more recently what a map we’re meant to repeat over and over, and for the records you have said you like it (Silverwastes).

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats pointless you’re comparing missing information (we dont know all HoT has) with full information (we know all Heavenward has)

ArenaNet thinks we know enough for them to ask us to pay full price in advance for something without a release date or even a release window. Even a Kickstarter campaign needs a release window for it to be accepted on that website, but ArenaNet won’t share even that. So yes, if ArenaNet thinks that information is enough, it’s perfectly reasonable for us to compare what we know of the HoT content with other games.

Galen Grey.4709:

When Vayne and myself speculated an expansion must be in development cause living story was made up for just 20 people out of 350+ employees as well as some promenent people were never heard from again after lunched people laughed too, they told us to dream on etc..

LOOOOOOOOOL! Dream on!

I can’t believe someone actually believes that the expansion has been under development since the beginning of the Living Story. You have zero evidence of that, other than wishful thinking and the information about the size of the LS team.

Meanwhile, let me ask you a very simple question: if they have 330 people working on the expansion for years now, and only 20 on the Living Story… Why has ArenaNet not released any new LS update since they announced the expansion? Haven’t they always worked in parallel? Why would the small LS have to stop because of the expansion the other 330 are working on?

If ArenaNet had so many people working in the expansion, why did they tell us they would have to stop LS production while preparing for the China release, when they could use people from the expansion team to fix that? And, for the records, they did stop content while making the failure that was the release in China.

If ArenaNet has been working on an expansion for that long, why did they say they didn’t have a point in releasing an expansion, in the time frame you claim they were working in one? Are you saying ArenaNet was lying?

It’s extremelly obvious that “HoT” has been in development for at most a little more than one year now, and by “HoT” I mean the creation of the Living Story season 3 storyline, which was hastly adapted into an expansion. It’s laughable to even think otherwise.

And if you want to know what were the other 330 people working on, you need to stop taking things so literally and read some of the Glassdoor reviews about ArenaNet.

yanipheonu.5798:

OH MY GOD. IT’LL NEVER END.

We are entitled to nothing, and this was never about some misplaced sense of respect. Be glad we even have the chance for a free bonus with preorder.

I think (pray) this one’s a parody post.

that’s a perception of material depreciation carried over to software – if Anet made guildwars 2.1 2.2 2.3 – it would retain it’s value.

sell limited editions of things, watch the price appreciate over time – what makes it depreciate is over abundance.

No different than music, no such thing as a collectors item in an mp3 format….the value has dropped to practically zero because it can be copied over and over.

I was just talking about this with my friend today – Death increases the value of life.
that is a fact.

The death of a version of software, increases the value of it’s next update. since guildwars is perceived as the version that was released after beta, it is perceived as the same original version, that is simply not true. Anet would have to release the original version they put out right after beta for the community to really “appreciate” the current version. Since anet never really distinguished it, it’s the same old software simply because it’s the same name.

which btw, I’m using the word “appreciate” like a bank, when you appreciate something, you increase it’s value. I actually learned this concept from a self help / lecturer / author / successful banker….it’s actually changed how i look at life…I try to ‘appreciate’ as many things as I can to make my view of life richer. gotta love the play with words :p

I’m saying too much, I may have to go back to defending the community tomorrow rofl :p <3

I want this to be the best game and community the world has ever known, so i have to fight all of ya, sorry :/

chaotic neutral FTW – i sure hope at least 1 person from anet knows what that means :p

yes, i want those alignments in gw …it’s a big deal and will plant a seed for serious roleplaying. I’m absitively popsolutely sure of this. If you doubt me, you don’t know what you are saying lol and yes, it should affect the spells and particle effects …some people use light, others use darkness…and then there’s the gray area. i’m on whatever side benefits me the most ..natural born merc for hire …-poker face- each with their own exclusive missions and places the other can’t get to.
you don’t send a whiteknight to the darkest kittens in the pit. they might not only die, but get their character permanently deleted – too bad it’s the only way to get certain soulbound items. ( that expire after a year lol ) segway into friendly fire in wvw rofl – you have to admit, making wvw just a tiny bit ffa might address the match imbalance issue – especially when 1 server is too busy having a huuge civil war hahah!!

this will also teach people to play together ( or not ) if they want their server to win – evils and goods have to work together to win as a server – but if there is no treaty …then there is a problem. and someone just waiting to turn an ant hill into a mountain! ^.^ what is the probability of a whole server turning entirely evil ?

Tere.4759:

Wow, complain when they don’t give you what you want and complain when they do give you what you want. Those who don’t pre-order should NOT get a character slot.

Those who don’t pre-order should get a character slot for being smart and not preordering a game, especially one that asks people to pay full price yet doesn’t even have a release date.

I’m amazed at how standards have fallen. When GW: Factions was released, it gave new players 4 character slots (same as GW: Prophecies), but old players who linked accounts got 2 character slots (Factions came with two new professions). The community complained for years about how “4 + 4 = 6”.

This time, we have basically “5 + 5 = 5” (having a full game and getting an expansion that only comes with the full game doesn’t give you a new character slot) unless you prepurchase (which would go “5 + 5 = 6”), and some people are actually ok with that.

If there were ever to be a GW3, I wouldn’t be surprised if it came with no character slot, and looks like some people here would be ok with it.

Test.8734:

Tere.4759:

Wow, complain when they don’t give you what you want and complain when they do give you what you want. Those who don’t pre-order should NOT get a character slot.

Those who don’t pre-order should get a character slot for being smart and not preordering a game, especially one that asks people to pay full price yet doesn’t even have a release date.

I’m amazed at how standards have fallen. When GW: Factions was released, it gave new players 4 character slots (same as GW: Prophecies), but old players who linked accounts got 2 character slots (Factions came with two new professions). The community complained for years about how “4 + 4 = 6”.

This time, we have basically “5 + 5 = 5” (having a full game and getting an expansion that only comes with the full game doesn’t give you a new character slot) unless you prepurchase (which would go “5 + 5 = 6”), and some people are actually ok with that.

If there were ever to be a GW3, I wouldn’t be surprised if it came with no character slot, and looks like some people here would be ok with it.

You couldn’t purchase characters slot with ingame gold in Guild Wars 1. They could only be obtained buy buying additional campaigns or by spending real money on character slots.

Slots in Guild Wars 2 can be earned through conversion of gold → gems. This makes them way easier to obtain.

These two are not even remotely comparable because of this simple fact.

THIS THREAD AGAIN

BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372:

maddoctor.2738:

BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372:

ESO and Wildstar are the latest MMOs that tried a subscription model and both failed. The market has changed and people are not willing to commit to subscription fees anymore

I’m certain ESO didn’t go B2P because of low amount of subs, it was planned to do so before the console release.

Why would they do that? A successful sub model (that manages to keep enough people playing and paying) generates more income, doesn’kitten IMO they probably suspected they couldn’t uphold the sub-model, nevertheless started with one to rake in the additional income of the early-hour enthusiasts and then switched to B2P when the subscription rate got so low that it wasn’t profitable anymore (and they were ready to push the console version to score additional sales of the base game).

Subs don’t work too well on console. Generally that payment model is viewed extremely unfavorable by people.

briggah.7910:

Buy another character slot and you won’t have to delete a toon.

You missed the point.

Why do existing players have to pay $60 to play the expac when new players pay $50 and get the whole core game thrown in as well?

yanipheonu.5798:

IT’LL NEVER END.

It’ll never end until Anet stops trying to ripoff its existing customers, no.

it’ll never end until people like you learn to grow up tbh

It’s nice to see so many people crying out that it’s not that expensive… that who dislike the HoT model is whining about it… that 3 years is too much for the cost…

Why not start a petition so the price goes a bit higher? Come on, it’s so cheap… Or maybe change it to a sub model. We have right to pay more!

yeah, what do you think, this is a game ?! – wait ..i’m on the players side again. let me catch up on complaints ….

scerevisiae.1972:

briggah.7910:

Buy another character slot and you won’t have to delete a toon.

You missed the point.

Why do existing players have to pay $60 to play the expac when new players pay $50 and get the whole core game thrown in as well?

1) existing players can currently pay $50. They also will get a $10 char slot free, bringing the effective cost down to $40. Since the core game was selling at $10 before, a $10 char slot is equivalent in cost.
2) just because the advertisement blurb said, buy now and get a free char slot, doesn’t mean that there won’t be a free char slot after the expansion launches. They only said there will be a free char slot now. They have not said that there won’t be one later.
3) you’re assuming that the expansion will be same price after launch but lesser in extras. It might, and it might not. There may well be a sale or the post expansion one may get the equivalent of the Heroic edition, like this game did after its launch.

scerevisiae.1972:

briggah.7910:

Buy another character slot and you won’t have to delete a toon.

You missed the point.

Why do existing players have to pay $60 to play the expac when new players pay $50 and get the whole core game thrown in as well?

New players who preorder get the same number of slots as veteran players who preorder. That is they’ll end up with 6 slots, and they’ll have 9 professions.

If you want the slot that bad, wait till the last minute and preorder then. If you’re going to preorder, what’s the difference if you buy the game launch day or the day before?

so you think it’s best to wait ? i’m split on waiting, not sure i want to get into beta because characters usually get re-rolled and they might add new deals – plus i have to spend wisely ….if anet said ’ awww man, come on, back me up’ then i’d buy it….but they ain’t saying that and i’m on a mission to make pvp intelligent again so i have to look like i aint buying.

nexxe.7081:

Vayne.8563:

Leon Heart XIII.4609:

Even after that blog post I still don’t feel too hot(pun intended) about the expansion pack. Form what we’ve seen and hear so far from anet it doesn’t seem like much content yet it has a 50.00 base price, unless this expansion is up to caliber with expansions like WoW and FF14 then it’s not even worth it tbh. We need Anet to reveal more about the content coming to HoT so I can finally set my mind at ease(or disappointment).

I disagree with this. I think that it doesn’t have to be as much content as a WoW expansion because for the last content free year in WoW, people are paying $15 a month for nothing, and then paying $50 for an expansion that people were done with in a couple of months anyway. This to me is not really a good value.

By contrast, people bought Guild Wars 2 for $60 and got hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of hours out of it without paying more.

HoT is the entry gate to the new area. You can wait until more content comes out that feeds off HoT if you like until it becomes worth it, but I’ll be there from the beginning, gaining the new currencies, working on the new legendaries, unlocking my guild hall, leveling my masteries, so when stuff is added, I’m not hopelessly backlogged.

The WoW analogy doesn’t work.

People assume that players are constantly paying $15 a month for a year straight, or longer. Some people only pay for a month or two, then take a break until the next major update or expansion comes out. Is that extra $15 worth it? That’s up to each individual to decide. Do i question people’s judgement when they spend $15+ a month on gems in GW2? No, it’s their money, and if they see value on spending money on gems, it’s their prerogative.

The WoW analogy absolutely works. Because some people then don’t have WoW for the months they’re not playing. If they want to log in, at all, they have to spend $15 dollars.

So what you’re saying is WoW users who do this are renting the game for $15 a month plus $40, not including the first month. Which means that if they play for two motnhs, the expansion costs them $55, if they play for three months it costs them $70. And they can’t play after that at all, without paying more money.

Ricky.4706:

so you think it’s best to wait ? i’m split on waiting, not sure i want to get into beta because characters usually get re-rolled and they might add new deals – plus i have to spend wisely ….if anet said ’ awww man, come on, back me up’ then i’d buy it….but they ain’t saying that and i’m on a mission to make pvp intelligent again so i have to look like i aint buying.

It’s best to wait if you’re not sure you’re going to enjoy it/get your money’s worth out of it. I’ve yet to buy any product from Anet that I haven’t gotten my money’s worth out of several times over. So for me, it’s a no-brainer. Even if I’m wrong, I’ve gotten so much value out of Guild Wars 2 that even if I added in the value of HoT, it’s almost meaningless.

But yes, if you’re not sure, wait. See what they announce.

Where is written in stone that everybody is looking for extra slots?!

I mean, if you doesnt need, you are automaticaly in the exclusion list then?

“Hey player, I’m giving you a freebie that you don’t need.. so stop whining because I did my daily good action.”

@Vayne yeah, me too, i tend to have fun even though they want me to pvp like a ninny for this version. this version is excellent for adventuring and for collecting shiny fluff, though i really would like the henchies back so i can do dungeons with em……people are all good and fun till they take hours to make teams then boot you because it’s your first time in that dungeon.

anet needs to save me from their professional cave dwellers, else i’ll never see a dugeon.

adormtil.1605:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

You’re right – it did do what HoT did not – royally screw its playerbase in the throathole.

Guild Wars 2 is almost 3 years old. At about this time, games are regularly sold for bargain bin prices or outright given away. The only real issue was the invalidation of recent sales of the core game (made under false information), and they’ve addressed that issue, plus many other sources of the community’s incessant whining, swimmingly with the community address.

Destiny is about a year old – pretty young for an online game – and its expansions are practically fresh out of the oven. And now it’s going to invalidate those very recent purchases – or punish players for having made them in the first place, by bundling them all into an infinitely cheaper deal.

We are not buying cars what you said is bullkitten. Games do not degrade the older they are stop being so manipulated.

The value of games most certain does degrade. All you have to do is track the price of a game for a period of years. I was in the business of selling games, and there were very very VERY few games that maintained the same price year after year.

Look at Steam and look how cheap some games are that were $60 at launch a year ago, before you say stuff like this.

Ricky.4706:

@Vayne yeah, me too, i tend to have fun even though they want me to pvp like a ninny for this version. this version is excellent for adventuring and for collecting shiny fluff, though i really would like the henchies back so i can do dungeons with em……people are all good and fun till they take hours to make teams then boot you because it’s your first time in that dungeon.

anet needs to save me from their professional cave dwellers, else i’ll never see a dugeon.

I run dungeons pretty much exclusively with guildies, so I never have that problem.