Guild Wars 2

Don’t buff thieves.

Don’t buff guardians.

Don’t buff anything.

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to nerf the elite specs already. Bring them in line with the core specs. We miss playing a game with good balance, and we miss playing the builds/classes we’ve played for the last 3 years—the core specs.

So here is our plea: Season 2 is coming to a close soon, and we’re all expecting a balance patch. Please make this one count.

And when you balance—think about class interactions. For example, condi reaper needs a nerf, but it’s the only thing holding rev’s and scrapper inline, so we can’t just nerf reaper in a vacuum. And so on. We need a holistic approach to balance to make core specs and elite specs viable together, without this nonsensical attitude of “shaking up the meta”. No one wants you to “shake up the meta” for its own sake. We just want to play a balanced game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Disapointing-balance-preview/first#post5989378
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Revert-Nov-4-Deathly-Chill-buff-Balance/first#post5958280
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Unranked-Is-a-Poor-Laboratory/first#post5993945
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Minor-balance-tweaks-on-23th/first#post5994028
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-core-equal-to-elite-specs-desirable/first#post5991156
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Some-Constructive-thoughts-on-Balance/first#post5967639
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Plz-remove-the-corrupt-boon-on-scepter-auto/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/New-classes-are-too-OP-R-I-P-core-ones/first#post6077370
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-A-framework-to-work-in/first#post6066556

This! I don’t want to be forced to play a single line so I can be effective, and I miss all of the fun builds that existed before HoT. Builds that offered risk v reward.

You know that off period between seasons? Get a couple diamonds / legendary players to test things out before you buff / nerf anything! That will ensure community satisfaction and (hopefully) make the game fun again, which is the point when you get down to the bottom of it

You’re right, just that even the core specs were OP after June.
It’s not just the elites.

Please bring back the old trait system :’(

Guys, the truth is we’re never getting the pre-June 23rd trait system again, so we need to ensure that we can make the most out of the new system. And honestly, most people feel that the balance between Sept. 29th and Oct. 23rd of 2015 was fantastic. This was following the d/d ele fire nerf, but before HoT, a period in which there were a plethora of viable builds.

+1, yes please. Even warrior is OP by 2015 standards actually. If Anet keeps increasing the powercreep the game will literally be unplayable by season 4 or 5.

Salamander.2504:

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to *nerf the elite specs already.

You are quite incorrect here. You do not speak for the community here, please do not presume to do so.

Brockolosso.8316:

Please bring back the old trait system :’(

Although I’d miss my only interrupt..
+1

Jana.6831:

Brockolosso.8316:

Please bring back the old trait system :’(

Although I’d miss my only interrupt..
+1

I like the old system as well to some points, but the new system is key architecture required to allow them to add new elites down the road.

TheGrimm.5624:

Salamander.2504:

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to *nerf the elite specs already.

You are quite incorrect here. You do not speak for the community here, please do not presume to do so.

Perhaps I should edit my post?

What Salamander.2504 should have said:

I know with 100% certainty that I speak for the PvP community that know the game well enough to thoughtfully contribute to balance discussions (arbitrarily defined as multiclassers who maintain a >55% winrate in ranked/unranked matches with 3.5k+ games) when I say that the consensus is to nerf the elite specs already.

; o)

I have been defending this position a lot, because I also think that the way the game is moving in PvP is bad.

There is no real doubt that elite specs are overpowered, and that they need to be nerfed. The real question is: how to balance them against core?

Due to the fact elite specs are tied with 1 weapon, 1 utility skill class, 1 trait line and new class mechanics (f1-f5), they will need to look at each of those in turn.

TheGrimm.5624:

Jana.6831:

Brockolosso.8316:

Please bring back the old trait system :’(

Although I’d miss my only interrupt..
+1

I like the old system as well to some points, but the new system is key architecture required to allow them to add new elites down the road.

Yes, but the traitmerge was the biggest mistake – so a compromise would be to unravel the traits (so you have 5? choices again instead of 3).
Just wanted to point out that it’s not only the elites.

Sirendor.1394:

I have been defending this position a lot, because I also think that the way the game is moving in PvP is bad.

There is no real doubt that elite specs are overpowered, and that they need to be nerfed. The real question is: how to balance them against core?

Due to the fact elite specs are tied with 1 weapon, 1 utility skill class, 1 trait line and new class mechanics (f1-f5), they will need to look at each of those in turn.

Step 1: It is my personal opinion that the pre-HoT guardian should serve as the ultimate benchmark for balance. This one class had 3 viable (and fun) options: condi medi, power medi, or bunker guard. None of these were OP, all were dynamic and offered ample counterplay. If ANet wants to balance the elite specs, they should look at the traits, utilities, weapon skills, and the cooldowns of these well-designed core classes. Then, taking into account design philosophy, base stats (vital and tough), fixing the broken new features should be relatively simple.

Step 2: Test it out and get community feedback.

Step 3: Go live.

Step 4: Readjust as necessary based on new feedback. It should be stressed that balance is an iterative process, not a “set it and forget it” concept that ANet has adopted since HoT. We actually haven’t yet had a true post-HoT balance patch yet.

Salamander.2504:

Don’t buff thieves.

Don’t buff guardians.

Don’t buff anything.

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to *nerf the elite specs already. Bring them in line with the core specs.

yes YES YES anet needs to do the thing that they said they want to do and make elite specializations serve as ways to enable classes to fill and play roles that they otherwise cannot, not make them stupid op auto include in every build.

The best thing they can do is not buff anything, nerf elites (as you said while considering how classes interact with each other), and then buff/rework skills and traits that are underpreforming in a different patch since they cannot fix everything in 1 go without making more issues. Also they need to stop ‘shaking up the meta’ like they did for s1 and s2 as an excuse to hide the poor class balance (if a class is garbage in one season ‘shake up the meta’ so in the next it is op to shut up the players of that class).

Warrior is and always has been THE SINGLE BEST DESIGNED PROFESSION. I’m not sure what happened since June, but holy kitten. No instant, passive, unavoidable burst, telegraphed skills that offer enough window for COUNTER GAMEPLAY, which has practically disappeared and has turned GW into spam wars.

Bring the others in line or the powercreep will make this game more unplayable than it already is.

Pretty sad when a Vanilla Warr is better than the Elite spec.

Furajir.3815:

Warrior is and always has been THE SINGLE BEST DESIGNED PROFESSION. I’m not sure what happened since June, but holy kitten. No instant, passive, unavoidable burst, telegraphed skills that offer enough window for COUNTER GAMEPLAY, which has practically disappeared and has turned GW into spam wars.

Bring the others in line or the powercreep will make this game more unplayable than it already is.

With the exception of the Defy Pain and Last Stand trait passive proc effects, I agree that warrior is very well-designed and balanced. Passive procs like these and elixir S really do detract from the gameplay, though. Less is more.

Except EP doesn’t work against condis ands controlling effects there bud.

Sirendor.1394:

The real question is: how to balance them against core?

Make them focus on a single role instead of being all around like now?

Furajir.3815:

Except EP doesn’t work against condis ands controlling effects there bud.

I’m intimately familiar with what EP does and doesn’t do—and it really shouldn’t be a passive proc. The game would be better off without all defensive passive procs.

I was making a point at how vastly different the 2 are. If you’ve played warrior for more than 5 minutes you’d understand how vital it is for us in the current meta to have double EP.

Except this suggestion is not going to work. Arenanet is probably going to do some minor nerfs there and there to elite specs and revenant e.g. reduce precision strike (rev sw#2) by 20% or add 5 seconds to the CD of shock shield (scrapper hammer #4) or reduce deathly chill damage by 15% (reaper trait). Do you think such minor nerfs alone will make warrior competitive again? Or make the players choose the elite spec over the core? Do you think the current warrior sustain will be a good match vs other professions, which have plenty of access to protection and/or evades? Guess again…

I have written long articles how to balance the warrior by not just buffing, but also toning down some skills and traits. And yes, I fully agree, the elite specs + revenant must be toned down. The power creep went too far. I know there will be cries in the forum. I just hope the right targets will be nerfed e.g. wrong action would be to gut the core specs just because some elite spec of the same profession is too good.

The the forum admins: All these warrior related threads should be merged and I hope the feedback is sent to the developers. I spent really many hours trying to think how to balance warrior without making it overpowered.

Furajir.3815:

I was making a point at how vastly different the 2 are. If you’ve played warrior for more than 5 minutes you’d understand how vital it is for us in the current meta to have double EP.

We can both point that out: you’re locked out of all of your skills using elixer S, unlike EP. I’ve played warrior for much longer than 5 minutes, and I still feel that defensive passive procs should be removed from the game. It’s not like I’d delete the trait and leave it empty!

Also @ Denaria above, this is not a “balance warrior thread,” and shouldn’t be merged with anything. The title is a loss leader.

there needs to be a TONS of nerfs
but anet is not going to do it, because it’s too much work, so they will just buff warrior instead

Warrior patch notes:

Healing signet value changed from 382 to 3,500 per tick, The Resistance that was placed on the Active portion of HS is now passive as well. Resistance to conditions will pulse every 3 seconds and last for 10seconds. Active heal has been changed to 15,000.

They will buff stuff come on OP. You must be new around here. The whole game is balanced around PvE. The new traits system was for PvE. If they nerf stuff people will get mad and quit playing and then buy less keys from the gem store.

Salamander.2504:

Don’t buff thieves.

Don’t buff guardians.

Don’t buff anything.

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to nerf the elite specs already. Bring them in line with the core specs. We miss playing a game with good balance, and we miss playing the builds/classes we’ve played for the last 3 years—the core specs.

So here is our plea: Season 2 is coming to a close soon, and we’re all expecting a balance patch. Please make this one count.

And when you balance—think about class interactions. For example, condi reaper needs a nerf, but it’s the only thing holding rev’s and scrapper inline, so we can’t just nerf reaper in a vacuum. And so on. We need a holistic approach to balance to make core specs and elite specs viable together, without this nonsensical attitude of “shaking up the meta”. No one wants you to “shake up the meta” for its own sake. We just want to play a balanced game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Disapointing-balance-preview/first#post5989378
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Revert-Nov-4-Deathly-Chill-buff-Balance/first#post5958280
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Unranked-Is-a-Poor-Laboratory/first#post5993945
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Minor-balance-tweaks-on-23th/first#post5994028
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-core-equal-to-elite-specs-desirable/first#post5991156
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Some-Constructive-thoughts-on-Balance/first#post5967639
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Plz-remove-the-corrupt-boon-on-scepter-auto/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/New-classes-are-too-OP-R-I-P-core-ones/first#post6077370
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-A-framework-to-work-in/first#post6066556

The problem with taking a holistic view is that then Anet sets the meta, and the only meta we get to play is the one Anet decides on.

Do we want to give up the little variations we have left for more class viability?

I personally like the cleanness of the new system, it’s just that merging some traits together led to major power creep. Certain traits should have just been abandoned and replaced with traits that serve a role and compete with other perks on the same tier.

Having only 3 choices for each level should in theory make the game much easier to balance. It’s the level of passivity and the fact that some traits have multiple powerful effects that’s the problem.

Every class in the game should have its traits simplified so that they do one thing well while cutting out the unused or rarely used traits. I despise traits like:

Warrior: Defy Pain, Last Stand

Engineer: Protection Injection, Self Regulating Defense, Automated Medical Response, Adaptive Armor

Necromancer: Plague Sending

Revenant: Radiant Revival, Soothing Bastion

Elementalist: Diamond Skin, Soothing Ice

Guardian: Hunter’s Determination

Ranger: Instinctive Reaction, Protective Ward

Those are just the ones that you see commonly used. I didn’t even bother with the minors but there’s so doozies there as well. This is half the problem with classes, not the new system. The other problem are merged traits that take two decent traits from the old system and blend them together without nerfing any part of it.

What makes the elite specs really bad is that many of the new weapons/traits/abilities have effects that are just flat out better than things that already exist in the game. A Herald has almost everything a Warrior does only with way better sustain and way less risk. Why wouldn’t you play Daredevil? It gives you an additional dodge, no other line is going to give you something that useful. The Dragon Hunter Virtues are just objectively superior to the vanilla ones. Hmm, do I want to have a Function Gyro that makes both stomping and reviving easy…or not? What’s that? I also get absurdly easy sustain and a weapon that deals both good damage AND has blocks and reflects!? Oh look, the Reaper Shroud is just a better version of the old one! Sure I’ll take that line!

The ONLY elite spec that actually just feels like a new way to play and not necessarily a direct upgrade is Berserker. Now, let me preface that by saying that with things like Gun Flame it does make some playstyles just flat out better, but you can still run a theoretically strong Warrior build without taking the line. Also, I don’t think this is intentional, it’s just that weapons like Hammer, Axe, and Longbow got Burst skills that are fairly weak in PvP. If all the Burst skills were good there would never be any reason to not use Berserker either.

OK, I’ve ranted long enough.

In summation, the game needs to go back to basics! It is now a bloated mess and has been dumbed down. ANet seems to think the average player isn’t good enough to play the game without assistance from traits, attacks, and utilities that do most of the work for them. I’ve been seeing plenty of Legendary players that don’t really play that well but their build makes up for it.

Salamander.2504:

Furajir.3815:

I was making a point at how vastly different the 2 are. If you’ve played warrior for more than 5 minutes you’d understand how vital it is for us in the current meta to have double EP.

We can both point that out: you’re locked out of all of your skills using elixer S, unlike EP. I’ve played warrior for much longer than 5 minutes, and I still feel that defensive passive procs should be removed from the game. It’s not like I’d delete the trait and leave it empty!

Also @ Denaria above, this is not a “balance warrior thread,” and shouldn’t be merged with anything. The title is a loss leader.

Endure pain isn’t a true invul like Elixir S is. I can use Endure Pain while stomping but I can still die to condis (which everywhere) and also be effected by life steal. Endure Pain isn’t really that great of a skill these days. Signet of Stone is better because of all the passive sustain Druid has. They can make huge recoveries that a Warrior can’t while using it.

I actually don’t use Double EP. I not only hate the passive nature of Defy Pain, but the effect itself isn’t that useful and it’s more about delaying the inevitable. With the Auto Elixir S you’ll probably have some sort of defensive skill or heal off of CD by the time it ends so it’s way more useful, you just have to make sure to not being using something when it triggers.

Sirendor.1394:

I have been defending this position a lot, because I also think that the way the game is moving in PvP is bad.

There is no real doubt that elite specs are overpowered, and that they need to be nerfed. The real question is: how to balance them against core?

Due to the fact elite specs are tied with 1 weapon, 1 utility skill class, 1 trait line and new class mechanics (f1-f5), they will need to look at each of those in turn.

The “REAL” question is exactly ‘how to balance ’Elite Specs’ with/against ‘Core’?’
Fortunately, the answer was already expressed long ago (by myself and others;even before HoT). There should have never been ‘elite specs’ in the way they exist now. They should have been balanced specs. If you want to introduce some new specs to cover some profession weaknesses, then that’s fine. Great even. The problem comes when you make several ‘elite specs’ that synergize SO WELL with the ‘profession mechanics’ (5th) line that it’s hard to do w/o them. The 5th lines should have been turned into an ‘elite spec’ too and then both be balanced accordingly (and exclusive, as well, of course). Nearly all of the current powercreep is a result of taking advantage of the fact that you can dedicate two entire traitlines to building your profession mechanic to be more ridiculously powerful than ever (with only a couple of exceptions…sorz Eles). This is only how/why the “HoT is P2W” threads ever came about. It was destined to be unbalanced from the beginning…

Reaper: “It’s ok., I have Chill spam and Boon Corrupt all day with so much Lifeforce regen that I’ll be back to 100% before the cooldowns is up…”

Druid: “It’s OK. I have superior healing and my pets will wreck you in the meantime…”

Chrono: “It’s OK. I rock Portal and have double-Moa and I’ll be back in 10 secs with full cooldowns…”

Etc, etc…I know a bit exaggerated but…it’s not balanced…

I’m with OP. Don’t buff, just nerf some of the outliers.

Although please do buff skills that no one uses. (Rev Jalis, Thief ambush trap, warrior kick, etc.) This has needed to be done since before elite specs.

I will measure success of the balance patch very simply. After the balance patch, I will watch the pro league. If virtually everyone is using an elite spec, I will consider the balance a failure. I want to see core specs viable again.

ANET has lost focus on the whole point of traits. You should have multiple viable trait lines to pick between. You shouldn’t be required to take one of them.

While i agree that i want balance and diversity, accept that the old system is gone and elite specs are the core of a character. But i want that there is diversity in it. Elite has three traitlines + two out of four core lines each with also three traitlines. This alone is huge and if its focused to have a lot of diffrent builds for each elite, then its fine. Core should not fall back to unplayable but its not required to play diomond + with core. It would also impede the busines model.

Core guardian > Dragon hunter
Core warrior > Berserker

So, not all elites needs nerfs.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Core guardian > Dragon hunter
Core warrior > Berserker

So, not all elites needs nerfs.

Core Guardian underperforms greatly in the meta… DH performs 2x better in team fights.

Don’t balance builds based on whether or not it can 1v1 its own spec =/

Salamander.2504:

Don’t buff anything.

I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to nerf the elite specs already. Bring them in line with the core specs. We miss playing a game with good balance, and we miss playing the builds/classes we’ve played for the last 3 years—the core specs.

I’m just here to say +1 because if I try to elaborate on my position I’ll end up droning on in a salty rant that no one wants to read.

You do speak for me <3

Tman.6349:

The “REAL” question is exactly ‘how to balance ’Elite Specs’ with/against ‘Core’?’
Fortunately, the answer was already expressed long ago (by myself and others;even before HoT). There should have never been ‘elite specs’ in the way they exist now. They should have been balanced specs. If you want to introduce some new specs to cover some profession weaknesses, then that’s fine. Great even. The problem comes when you make several ‘elite specs’ that synergize SO WELL with the ‘profession mechanics’ (5th) line that it’s hard to do w/o them. The 5th lines should have been turned into an ‘elite spec’ too and then both be balanced accordingly (and exclusive, as well, of course). Nearly all of the current powercreep is a result of taking advantage of the fact that you can dedicate two entire traitlines to building your profession mechanic to be more ridiculously powerful than ever (with only a couple of exceptions…sorz Eles). This is only how/why the “HoT is P2W” threads ever came about. It was destined to be unbalanced from the beginning…

This is exactly the thing i suggested a month ago:

What if the trait line that enhances your profession mechanic was turned in to a elite specialization (discipline, trickery, soul reaping, beast mastery, illusions, tools, invocation, virtues, arcane). This way they can giving us some build diversity (before another expansion), you ether stick with the vanila elite specs (and therefor the base class name) and 2 other core ones or the HoT elite spec (and change to the different class name) and 2 other core ones.
Of course there would have to be some rebalancing done to make the ‘new’ vanila elite competitive in power to the HoT elite, but we can all agree that the game is in need of balance as is so it woild not be a big deal.

The reason i bring this idea up is because thees specializations are used in almost every build anyway (most warrior builds take discipline, every thief pick trickery, every guardian build pick up virtues, infact only mesmer, engineer and ele do not pick theirs currently) and by making them elite the players would be forced in to a choice, and non HoT players will have access to a competitive build. This is assuming they balance them according to the power level of HoT elite specs, and every future elite spec.

From a pvp point of view this to me seams like one of the best ways to narrow the gap between people who have HoT and those that do not, as well as force players in to an actual choice when making a build. Right now we have the celestial equivalent of traits, you always slot it in no matter what just like most builds used celestial amulet even if they only utilized 4/7 stats.

Brockolosso.8316:

Please bring back the old trait system :’(

The old trait system is the only way to balance the game avoiding to create only 1 good build per profession.

foste.3098:

Tman.6349:

The “REAL” question is exactly ‘how to balance ’Elite Specs’ with/against ‘Core’?’
Fortunately, the answer was already expressed long ago (by myself and others;even before HoT). There should have never been ‘elite specs’ in the way they exist now. They should have been balanced specs. If you want to introduce some new specs to cover some profession weaknesses, then that’s fine. Great even. The problem comes when you make several ‘elite specs’ that synergize SO WELL with the ‘profession mechanics’ (5th) line that it’s hard to do w/o them. The 5th lines should have been turned into an ‘elite spec’ too and then both be balanced accordingly (and exclusive, as well, of course). Nearly all of the current powercreep is a result of taking advantage of the fact that you can dedicate two entire traitlines to building your profession mechanic to be more ridiculously powerful than ever (with only a couple of exceptions…sorz Eles). This is only how/why the “HoT is P2W” threads ever came about. It was destined to be unbalanced from the beginning…

This is exactly the thing i suggested a month ago:

What if the trait line that enhances your profession mechanic was turned in to a elite specialization (discipline, trickery, soul reaping, beast mastery, illusions, tools, invocation, virtues, arcane). This way they can giving us some build diversity (before another expansion), you ether stick with the vanila elite specs (and therefor the base class name) and 2 other core ones or the HoT elite spec (and change to the different class name) and 2 other core ones.
Of course there would have to be some rebalancing done to make the ‘new’ vanila elite competitive in power to the HoT elite, but we can all agree that the game is in need of balance as is so it woild not be a big deal.

The reason i bring this idea up is because thees specializations are used in almost every build anyway (most warrior builds take discipline, every thief pick trickery, every guardian build pick up virtues, infact only mesmer, engineer and ele do not pick theirs currently) and by making them elite the players would be forced in to a choice, and non HoT players will have access to a competitive build. This is assuming they balance them according to the power level of HoT elite specs, and every future elite spec.

From a pvp point of view this to me seams like one of the best ways to narrow the gap between people who have HoT and those that do not, as well as force players in to an actual choice when making a build. Right now we have the celestial equivalent of traits, you always slot it in no matter what just like most builds used celestial amulet even if they only utilized 4/7 stats.

This could very well be one of the best solutions to the current situation I have read so far. Also if you look at it… most core warriors use discipline, most core eles use arcane, most core thieves use trickery.

So what making these lines elite specs would have as a result is that (because you can only equip 1 elite spec and 2 core ones) they will get ‘either’ the one or the other, but not both at the same time.

Maybe these lines would still need a bit of a buff to make them as good as the current elite specs, but it’s definitely an idea.

Edit 1:
One concern I do have is that effectively this will lock more players into running certain builds, whereas you could (if you really wanted this) run air, earth and water on a ele… you will now be forced to swap at least one of those for arcane or for tempest.

Edit 2:
The strong point of your suggestion is that you’ll have a choice between 2 ‘main’ lines instead of 1 then, and that it makes balancing slightly easier because there cannot be a ‘discipline’ + ‘berserker’, or ‘daredevil’ + ‘trickery’ etc scenario. So they would just have to balance the elite lines against eachother, and the core lines against eachother.

Yeah this is exactly what I think too. If you look around in PvP and in PvE there is almost never anyone running a non elite spec. They are just so much stronger than the core classes.

The game shouldn’t be like this, you should endorse variety. An ele should think before going tempest or core, a guardian should generally be just as effective as a DH and a revenant in PvP should sometimes be viable without running a shield.

Today its Elite Spec or have a rough time.

My current approach on this would be to use 3/5 core traitlines (heavily nerfed and made more exclusive/specific to compensate)
And 1 elite spec, along with introducing 1 ‘basic’ elite spec which three respective trait choices are aimed to represent the three most typical/most fitting builds.
That way you had three basic, equallly strong builds, the core lines to settle the details, the elite specs to expand or transform your class and still the option to come up with your own stuff.

If there will be major nerfs just split the skills between PvP and PvE. There was nearly no time before HoT where all professions were used (remember ranger and necro haters in times of dungeonfarming?…).

Tornupto.2304:

If there will be major nerfs just split the skills between PvP and PvE. There was nearly no time before HoT where all professions were used (remember ranger and necro haters in times of dungeonfarming?…).

Well they should have split PvP and PvE version of skills long ago. Judging by the fact it still isn’t done, they either do not have the technology (which is dubious?) or they simply do not want to do it.

Step 1: Create a seperate PvP and PvE balance team (currently 1 team)
Step 2: Balance skills every 2 weeks for a couple of months, with tiny changes to damage multipliers and cooldowns on skills and traits.
Step 3: After initial balancing, keep sending out balance patches at least monthly (instead of having months between each patch).

Advantages of a frequent but small balance patch system:

• Allow fast changes on broken or overpowered mechanics, so they do not stay in the game for long periods.
• Will not throw the whole game into a chaos, because the changes will be small.
• Advantage of trial and error: if a patch on a certain skill was not enough or too much, you can just patch it again and see if it works.

‘’We are not fully against skill splitting between the different game modes but it adds a lot of overhead to every balance and design decision. While it does give you another tool box it does lead to optimizing skills heavily for each game type which does make power creep.Its on the table and it’s something we may use in the future’’
-ama
I can just hope they make it happen some day.

I agree with the OP’s sentiment, but realistically, there’s only so much nerfing you can do to the new elite specs without a total overhaul/redesign, so there will be some buffs that are needed, at least on a small scale.

+1

Been saying it since beta tbh. Elites are OVERTUNED for the sake of sales. They don’t care that people leave game later because game is so broken and very boring due to low amount of builds available (the elites are pretty much shoved down your throat and even if you go hipster and play core spec you will be forced to reroll elite eventually since elites from other classes are just stupidly broken).

Problem is: they won’t nerf elites. Why? Raids…. -_- Your average Joe won’t be able to complete raids w/o elites. So pvp has to suffer same fate as pvp in wow which was butchered for the sake of pve casuals (will never forget how wars in wow were allowed to 1 shot players for whole season because the class did couple % less dmg in raids than other high dps classes).

@Sirendor.1394: they are not splitting pvp and pve because “it would be too confusing for players”- which is most stupid excuse i ever heard. It is not confusing at all when you have to deal with overtuned, broken crap in pvp, nope, not at all.

Cynz.9437:

Been saying it since beta tbh. Elites are OVERTUNED for the sake of sales. They don’t care that people leave game later because game is so broken and very boring due to low amount of builds available (the elites are pretty much shoved down your throat and even if you go hipster and play core spec you will be forced to reroll elite eventually since elites from other classes are just stupidly broken).

Well that may have been the case but they did change game directors recently, so maybe they will also change their stance on the mater too? I mean if you make something op for the sake of sales there is no reason (it is even bad for the game) to keep it broken for a long time after the initial release (even when games like league release a new champion and make it op to drive sales they eventually nerf it down to normal).
After all people have done a 5 man vale guardian kill and a no updraft gorseval kill both of those before the enrage timers ticked to 0, so the raids will not suddenly become impossible to complete unless you play gw without a mouse or something.

foste.3098:

Cynz.9437:

Been saying it since beta tbh. Elites are OVERTUNED for the sake of sales. They don’t care that people leave game later because game is so broken and very boring due to low amount of builds available (the elites are pretty much shoved down your throat and even if you go hipster and play core spec you will be forced to reroll elite eventually since elites from other classes are just stupidly broken).

Well that may have been the case but they did change game directors recently, so maybe they will also change their stance on the mater too? I mean if you make something op for the sake of sales there is no reason (it is even bad for the game) to keep it broken for a long time after the initial release (even when games like league release a new champion and make it op to drive sales they eventually nerf it down to normal).
After all people have done a 5 man vale guardian kill and a no updraft gorseval kill both of those before the enrage timers ticked to 0, so the raids will not suddenly become impossible to complete unless you play gw without a mouse or something.

Your average pve Joe is mouse clicker and keyboard turner.

The pugs still can’t kill VG lol.

Ofc there is no reason to keep elites overtuned after sales but why waste money on massive overhaul of elites for balance sake? They got money from HoT, all they need to do now is to add some LS stuff to keep pve’ers happy and gemstore crap for extra moneys.

Cynz.9437:

foste.3098:

Cynz.9437:

Been saying it since beta tbh. Elites are OVERTUNED for the sake of sales. They don’t care that people leave game later because game is so broken and very boring due to low amount of builds available (the elites are pretty much shoved down your throat and even if you go hipster and play core spec you will be forced to reroll elite eventually since elites from other classes are just stupidly broken).

Well that may have been the case but they did change game directors recently, so maybe they will also change their stance on the mater too? I mean if you make something op for the sake of sales there is no reason (it is even bad for the game) to keep it broken for a long time after the initial release (even when games like league release a new champion and make it op to drive sales they eventually nerf it down to normal).
After all people have done a 5 man vale guardian kill and a no updraft gorseval kill both of those before the enrage timers ticked to 0, so the raids will not suddenly become impossible to complete unless you play gw without a mouse or something.

Your average pve Joe is mouse clicker and keyboard turner.

The pugs still can’t kill VG lol.

Ofc there is no reason to keep elites overtuned after sales but why waste money on massive overhaul of elites for balance sake? They got money from HoT, all they need to do now is to add some LS stuff to keep pve’ers happy and gemstore crap for extra moneys.

This pretty much, some elites being stronger than some core specs is a marketing necessity. And ANet is a company, and I won’t ridicule them for trying to make money. That’s just the truth of the matter, what they need to do is revert the necros buff and tone down the skill spams or stab pulse, or you name it.

Needless to say, us warrior are still waiting for our buff!!

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cynz.9437:

foste.3098:

Cynz.9437:

Been saying it since beta tbh. Elites are OVERTUNED for the sake of sales. They don’t care that people leave game later because game is so broken and very boring due to low amount of builds available (the elites are pretty much shoved down your throat and even if you go hipster and play core spec you will be forced to reroll elite eventually since elites from other classes are just stupidly broken).

Well that may have been the case but they did change game directors recently, so maybe they will also change their stance on the mater too? I mean if you make something op for the sake of sales there is no reason (it is even bad for the game) to keep it broken for a long time after the initial release (even when games like league release a new champion and make it op to drive sales they eventually nerf it down to normal).
After all people have done a 5 man vale guardian kill and a no updraft gorseval kill both of those before the enrage timers ticked to 0, so the raids will not suddenly become impossible to complete unless you play gw without a mouse or something.

Your average pve Joe is mouse clicker and keyboard turner.

The pugs still can’t kill VG lol.

Ofc there is no reason to keep elites overtuned after sales but why waste money on massive overhaul of elites for balance sake? They got money from HoT, all they need to do now is to add some LS stuff to keep pve’ers happy and gemstore crap for extra moneys.

This pretty much, some elites being stronger than some core specs is a marketing necessity. And ANet is a company, and I won’t ridicule them for trying to make money. That’s just the truth of the matter, what they need to do is revert the necros buff and tone down the skill spams or stab pulse, or you name it.

Needless to say, us warrior are still waiting for our buff!!

No this is wrong, and a terrible philosophy. Sorry, but if there is anything ever that Gemstore sales could indicate, it’s that ‘people will pay real money to to play/look/feel different than others that don’t. It doesn’t have to be OP for sales. It just needs to be a ‘different flavor’ (which was how Elite Specs were advertised in the first place). This is why I, and many others, agree that changing the 5th traitlines to Elites and then balance accordingly, is our best solution and better for the foundation of the game. Even balance the other four core specs to be more focused shortly afterwards. Yes, this will decrease the current (‘build choices’ overall…lol like that’s a thing), but it will also introduce *more important decisions in build-making, which will only ever increase build variety. It is, also, a VERY good segway into the time between releasing HoT, which introduced elite specs, and the next incarnation of GW2 expansion (I can’t stress the importance of this enough). Going F2P and introducing the new HoT systems is a terrible idea for any game that wants to be taken remotely serious. Have some balls. Make the needed changes. Profit. Live on with dignity recovered. ???.