Guild Wars 2

Handin.4032:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Can you clarify exactly why this was changed? From what was said in the livestream, it sounded like it was done to counter the infinite-clone condi clone death builds. But if that was the case, why not change the clone death traits instead?

It was pretty obviously a poorly planned attempt at nerfing clone death builds. It won’t actually nerf them, but it might reduce the average wpf of them.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Good to hear. Might want to try and convey the information a bit more clearly next time.

Or Pyro will burn your house down. Consider this your first and final warning.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Handin.4032:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Can you clarify exactly why this was changed? From what was said in the livestream, it sounded like it was done to counter the infinite-clone condi clone death builds. But if that was the case, why not change the clone death traits instead?

It was pretty obviously a poorly planned attempt at nerfing clone death builds. It won’t actually nerf them, but it might reduce the average wpf of them.

This is why one of those dev convos on the forums around class balance will be good.

Pyroatheist.9031:

It was pretty obviously a poorly planned attempt at nerfing clone death builds. It won’t actually nerf them, but it might reduce the average wpf of them.

I’m confused as to why you say this isn’t a nerf to clone death builds, when every such build description I’ve read has said quite clearly that clone death from DE dodges is a noteworthy (if not major) source of damage.

I can see it being useful for builds that use a lot of phantasms, but seems detrimental to builds like the classic Blackwater that use clone death to stack conditions.

DE change is pretty nice for phantasm builds to allow some shatters as well in a dynamic fashion, so I don’t mind it too much. I think the nerf to on death clone traits is more a nerf because those traits are weirdly designed, since the majority of procs happen because the game mechnics counts replacing them as a death – they should just be changed, to be way more impactful when one actually gets killed.

But to be honest I would like to see the DE thing on the scepter auto, even more…

Qaelyn.7612:

Pyroatheist.9031:

It was pretty obviously a poorly planned attempt at nerfing clone death builds. It won’t actually nerf them, but it might reduce the average wpf of them.

I’m confused as to why you say this isn’t a nerf to clone death builds, when every such build description I’ve read has said quite clearly that clone death from DE dodges is a noteworthy (if not major) source of damage.

I can see it being useful for builds that use a lot of phantasms, but seems detrimental to builds like the classic Blackwater that use clone death to stack conditions.

Basically, it means you can’t use the dodges to pop clones. You can still use weapon skills though, so you can get a high rate of clone poppage just as before. It will actually encourage conservation of dodges for more defense, instead of just recklessly dodging around for clone fodder.

Overall, high skill users of clone death builds won’t see an impact in performance, just a style change. Low skill users will see lower performance, and that’s not really a bad thing.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Good to hear. Might want to try and convey the information a bit more clearly next time.

Oddly enough I found that he presented the change in the video quite clear. He did blurb out initially and made it look as if there will be no clone production if -any- clones are out but then he did clarify it quite specifically “if you’re full clones we are not going to create anymore”, aka if you got 3 illusions up then no clones will be spawned.

He did mention DE “cheesing it” which probably referred to blackwater builds and “disrupting flow of the gameplay” which probably referred to phantasm builds where dodging would kill the 3rd phantasm you had out. From what I foresee this is a win-win for most of us, especially with the phantasm builds where I can slot in DE to help get the full effect of Compounding Power without hurting my phantasms. The only major downside I see is the inability to force clone death and related traits with a dodge.

Still though, after hearing him talk about mesmer and how they work, the initial impression I got was that he does NOT play mesmer and does NOT understand how they work well enough to be in charge of balancing us. We’re doomed

frifox.5283:

Still though, after hearing him talk about mesmer and how they work, the initial impression I got was that he does NOT play mesmer and does NOT understand how they work well enough to be in charge of balancing us. We’re doomed

He sounded like a warrior trying to pretend that he knew what he was talking about with regards to in-depth mesmer mechanics.

What if you have 3 clones out and you press a shatter… and while these clones are running to the target, you dodge to produce more clones? Will it actually produce clones?

But dodge rolling to pop a clone was one of the coolest parts of clone death builds. I’ve been running a 10/25/25/0/10 build for a while now and sacrificing a dodge in order to proc Crippling Dissipation on an opponent that was about to flee was a really interesting way to play. It’s a shame that this change will essentially reduce the flexibility of my build.

However, I will be interested to see how this change will push me to play differently. I can already see how this could reduce general survivability for anyone using DE and make Mesmers using this trait easier for the average player to target and predict.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

For clarification: iLeap on hills hasn’t been fixed since beta 1, shattering with 3 clones doesn’t go to the target, only nearby mobs. I have to waste a dodge roll w/ 3 clones out to ensure that I shatter with 3 clones on a target + myself vs some random clones blowing up behind me on ambient mobs in wvw. Both of these hasn’t been fixed since beta 1.

Phase retreating out of stuns/knockdowns causes stuck bug, making me do emotes while I’m fighting in wvw also.

Might wanna fix things that were meant to be fixed long ago before announcing more buggy/broken patches. I appreciate the free monthly content, but quality > quantity especially with the latest buggy patches.

I could care less about PU builds being nerfed, I’m more concerned about Critical Infusion. Longer cooldown and it will be 50% less effective? How about fixing things like Illusionary Leap?

Lol! PU mesmers will be so terrible after this patch. If you just don’t AoE or cleave, then they simply cannot damage you because none of their clones will ever proc their on death traits. You can literally beat a PU mesmer by auto attacking since their other sources of damage are abysmal at best. Maybe now we’ll see less cheese.

Simplicity.7208:

Lol! PU mesmers will be so terrible after this patch. If you just don’t AoE or cleave, then they simply cannot damage you because none of their clones will ever proc their on death traits. You can literally beat a PU mesmer by auto attacking since their other sources of damage are abysmal at best. Maybe now we’ll see less cheese.

Or, you know, popping clones with skills like decoy, phase retreat, phantasmal warlock, phantasmal mage, scepter autoattack, scepter block, phantasmal disenchanter.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Simplicity.7208:

Lol! PU mesmers will be so terrible after this patch. If you just don’t AoE or cleave, then they simply cannot damage you because none of their clones will ever proc their on death traits. You can literally beat a PU mesmer by auto attacking since their other sources of damage are abysmal at best. Maybe now we’ll see less cheese.

Or, you know, popping clones with skills like decoy, phase retreat, phantasmal warlock, phantasmal mage, scepter autoattack, scepter block, phantasmal disenchanter.

I’m okay with this. I was eating PU mesmers for breakfast before. Now it’s going to be like taking candy from a baby. More importantly;
MM Necro nerf
Spirit ranger nerf
Healing signet warrior nerf
Nerf to poison application

My mesmer is going to be in a good spot.

Goodbye the only things which made me feel valuable as a mesmer: solo-finishing Thaumanova boss and solo-finishing Molten Fractal boss :’(

i dunno if i would consider DE a nerf or a bonus, when i go invisible and when i dodge my clones is like a breadcrumb (at times) but critical infusion is a unneeded nerf because it syncs so well with DE…i mean hey if you are trying to make all classes the same with perma vigor nerf then guardians need one as well because i dont see it being mentioned in the upcoming patches…point is with these nerfs i do expect dev to either rework our kit or at least rework Cry of Frustration…point is a lot of the mesmer builds works around these 2 traits…

Josh Davis.6015:

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

And that’s a big nerf for every build.

• Currently against some professions you are going to dodge backwards to create a clone between you and your opponent, so that the clone can soak the damage. Not that you can do the whole dodging back, against certain profession you have to use this, otherwise you’ll just die. Now that will no longer be possible.

• Another example is the terrain unevenness. F.e. I get attacked outside of the clocktower, dodge, then go into the clocktower, and now can not use one of my clones, because he is outside (or stuck on a different position). Now even if I dodge multiple times inside the clocktower, my first shatter will only contain a very very low number of useful clones. It could be possible, that the whole shatter is wastes, because the clones are stuck somewhere.

I have rarely played in the last 4 weeks (all together maybe 3h), and I cannot see how this will help me to come back.
This will just mean less build variety for PvE. Phantasm is the only way to go. Less vigor means less clones to blow up for shatter (which is not in the best spot for PvE right now). The DE change means that clone bombing becomes even more useless in PvE (it needed a buff instead for PvE, maybe a second melee clone option).
Now giving me 2 sigil spots on a 2h just means that I will have to put some vigor sigil in just to keep shatter working.

Stupid Dev’s should get their heads out of their bloody PvP meta kitten.

I said it, I will probably get an infraction. I don’t care. This game will never be a real eSports no matter how hard they try. On the other hand they kitten up their PvE and WvW players.

Stupid! Thinking about to give ANet a personal visit just to tell every single person there that they are dumb.

Honestly, I don’t see this as being such a hindrance to my Blackwater build, I will still keep most of my condition pressure and damage, it might be a bit annoying, but go figure, I guess all anet can do is nerf things that don’t need to be nerfed, instead of properly balancing classes across the game.

What concerns this is the implications for other builds, namely shatter specs, which, are already being used less and less (from what I have seen) and the vigor nerf is pretty bad as well, completely un-necessary (the guardian vigor nerf even more so, they already at the bottom in the hp pool, the vigor was some of the only pieces evening it out)

Pyroatheist.9031:

SnubFighter.7613:

Personal Thoughts(On your reactions):
I’m not saying people shouldn’t voice their concerns, but have some general respect. I understand that everyone wants the game to be enjoyable and perhaps the developers don’t all play or understand a specific class to the fullest. Do you think each of the developers has the time to play each class the same? How many hours have you put into mastering Mesmer? They have lives and they have to think and develop this game in the same amount of time that all of us fit our lives and work habits into. Would you really want people to disrespect you for what is likely a decision by a team as a whole? Would you listen to people that are disrespectful?

In order to PvP effectively, I know almost every single skill on every single class and how it works. I know all the class mechanics. I know how to counter them. I know these because I want to play well.

As balance devs, it is THEIR JOB to know what I know as a PvP player. That is what they do. They balance this game. How can they possibly hope to balance if their knowledge is not equal to that of PvPers?

They give trophies for being last place now, you don’t need to know your job to have a job anymore!

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Honestly, I don’t see this as being such a hindrance to my Blackwater build, I will still keep most of my condition pressure and damage, it might be a bit annoying, but go figure, I guess all anet can do is nerf things that don’t need to be nerfed, instead of properly balancing classes across the game.

What concerns this is the implications for other builds, namely shatter specs, which, are already being used less and less (from what I have seen) and the vigor nerf is pretty bad as well, completely un-necessary (the guardian vigor nerf even more so, they already at the bottom in the hp pool, the vigor was some of the only pieces evening it out)

Their grasp on HP pools is confusing, I played a thief and a guardian and finally gave up because you have to balance things just right on certain mobs etc. Where as warriors and necros can face tank and don’t even really need to dodge. The balance team makes me cry.

tbh blackwater build in my perspective is a stubborn build…a full blackwater can hardly catch up to kill or have any burst for the kill…
necros face tank is completely understandable only because they really have no means of escape whatsoever while a warrior who can face tank and kitten away when losing and kitten back in they have full health is just beyond me what anet is thinking
tho back to mesmers i give props for anet touching these 2 traits and perhaps some well deserve nerfs, but at the same time i do expect them to either change some parts of our kits considering these 2 traits r practically the core of mesmers…

Adrianna.3092:

wow awsome change… i love it.. now i can use deceptive evasion without it ruining my phantasms!!! wooo!!!

It has never ruined it… clones only destroy clones, phantasms only destroy phantasms if the 3 illusion limit is hit. Sometimes I wonder if people even pay attention while playing.

Howell Qagan.9752:

Adrianna.3092:

wow awsome change… i love it.. now i can use deceptive evasion without it ruining my phantasms!!! wooo!!!

It has never ruined it… clones only destroy clones, phantasms only destroy phantasms if the 3 illusion limit is hit. Sometimes I wonder if people even pay attention while playing.

If you have 3 phantasms out, clone generation skills definitely overwrite the oldest phantasm. I’ll save you from a snarky comment about paying attention while playing

Handin.4032:

Can you clarify exactly why this was changed? From what was said in the livestream, it sounded like it was done to counter the infinite-clone condi clone death builds. But if that was the case, why not change the clone death traits instead?

Because those traits aren’t as strong by themselves as Deceptive Evasion is? And since the nerf only really nerfs the combination, better to touch the stronger trait than the weaker ones.

Especially because I’d like to know how you’d nerf those traits without further nerfing the Scepter. Hrm?

Just like many others here I would like to know why? Applying that condition damage is a central part of how mesmers work. Without that clone replacement by DE we have a serious damage nerf on our hands, and it’s not like there are an awful lot of us in WvW anyway.

I guess I need to go get a hammer for my warrior, so I can be a part of the crowd?

/nothappyhere

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Please clarify. What happens if you have 3 phantasms out?

Here’s a question for this trait change:
At the moment it’s possible to shatter your illusions and create additional clones while they’re chasing the target. It might happen to have 3 illusions runing for the shatter and 2/3 on your position to fulfill 3 illusions for Compounding Power with even the last shattered illusion.

Do you think that we’ll still be able to create clones with DE when we have 3 that are on their way to sacrefice themselves?

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Hey josh,

This is totally off-topic, but is there any chance mesmer is gonna get a total rework?
Atm I find mesmer a more and more phantasm-reliable class. Every other aspect get’s nerfed pretty much.
Seeing only 2 updates for mesmer, (3 with the possible ‘’nerf/fix’’ on CS) seems pretty cheap to me… like almost every patch the past what? 1/2 year? Our meta isn’t changing unless Arenanet does something about PU and gives us other stuff in compromise. We are way too heavy specced for roaming, but almost nothing on raid-zerg WvW/pve/tPvP. Our utility’s seem to get weaker every day, and even with that it’s only 1/100 of our gametime.
You might’ve read it arleady, but if you didn’t yet I’d suggest you to do so:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/WvW-Mesmer-needs-to-be-balanced/first#post3513397

no clones when dodging? (if you have 3 clones up…) there is also a reason why we dodge for clones. like when we nearly get killed we also use it to confuse (without the condition, due there are some idiots who kill the clone then). now you are killing our retreating abilities with that nerf. idk but what about just give a mesmer 1 weapon, 1 skill and 1 trait? seems that we are still to op with every nerf, just because others cant handle it!

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Please clarify. What happens if you have 3 phantasms out?

Excuse Josh for his choice of words, If you have 3 illusions out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

This is a major nerf to all mesmers using DE. Those who says it isnt are either nonDE user or gw2 pets/minis.

As i already stated in a similar named thread over in the balance forums, i don’t see Deceptive Evasion as that much of a nerf for shatter builds.

I now won’t be able to dodge near an enemy to get a clone ready to shatter if a already have 3 illusions standing somewhere doing 0 damage with their GS, but since vigor is nerfed anyway, DE seems like the minor problem of those 2.

Besides, shatter will have a lot of problem which are more urgent after the nerfs compared to DE:
- overall dmg nerf
- vigor nerf
- resulting in not being able to kill anything condi or tanky before getting grinded to death.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

I’m 99% certain that’s NOT what they were describing.

The only change I see that would create is you could no longer replace injured clones. Its barely a change at all, and it doesn’t correspond to the rest of what they were saying. You don’t talk about a footnote as long and as nervously as they did.

Would you mind double checking with the Skill and Balance team, because they may changed to that in the last few hours, but I can’t believe something that trivial is what they were discussing in the live-stream.

Nike.2631:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Yeah, I’m 99% certain that’s NOT what they were describing.

The only change I see that would create is you could no longer replace injured clones. Its barely a change at all, and it doesn’t correspond to the rest of what they were saying. You don’t talk about a footnote as long and as nervously as they did.

Would you mind double checking with the Skill and Balance team, because they may changed to that in the last few hours, but I can’t believe something that trivial is what they were discussing in the live-stream.

I think you are missing the point. This is a major nerf for builds with traits that apply effects when a clone dies. Not trivial at all.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I think you are missing the point. This is a major nerf for builds with traits that apply effects when a clone dies. Not trivial at all.

Then explain it please ? What is happening now that won’t happen if this goes into effect?

If you have three clones up and dodge with DE, the oldest clone will be destroyed and will apply on-death effects while a new clone is spawned.
After the patch, nothing will happen.

See the picture?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If you have three clones up and dodge with DE, the oldest clone will be destroyed and will apply on-death effects while a new clone is spawned.
After the patch, nothing will happen.

See the picture?

Interesting . I guess I typically kept my foes a bit more at arms length (even with the 1H sword clones).

So its principally a nerf to Crippling Dissipation and Debilitating Dissipation? Without those it means… you just can’t replace injured clones, yes?

Crippling Dissipation getting nerfed doesn’t surprise me in light of what was done to net turret. Debilitating Dissipation getting nerfed is I guess a statement they feel Mesmers are a little too condition heavy?

Don’t forget Confusing Combatants (Dueling 25).

Like in my Rollin’ Trollin’ Build it is harder to find a trait that has not been nerfed than the nerfed ones…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsc7anUE1UbRNC1gWjExUhgDlCs76IVo0K9g3uwcD-jwxAYrkRUSWyrIas1sioxqWwUlER1ejioVDA-e

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

You mean illusions right? If DE works with 2 clones out, I can still have a phantasm and replace one of the two clones by dodging over and over, which would make the nerf very silly.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Honestly, I don’t see this as being such a hindrance to my Blackwater build, I will still keep most of my condition pressure and damage, it might be a bit annoying, but go figure, I guess all anet can do is nerf things that don’t need to be nerfed, instead of properly balancing classes across the game.

What concerns this is the implications for other builds, namely shatter specs, which, are already being used less and less (from what I have seen) and the vigor nerf is pretty bad as well, completely un-necessary (the guardian vigor nerf even more so, they already at the bottom in the hp pool, the vigor was some of the only pieces evening it out)

I run 75% boon duration, that’s 8 3/4 seconds of vigor from critical infusion. That’s what they’re wanting. Instead of taking vigor away completely, they’re letting us keep it, and if you want to get more out of it then its simply a matter of taking something to boost it. I can only imagine there’ll be a better boon duration rune set that means I should be able to get more than 75% boon duration across 3 sets by just taking the one. Good times.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Basically, it means you can’t use the dodges to pop clones. You can still use weapon skills though, so you can get a high rate of clone poppage just as before.

Well no, you can’t. If I have N ways of generating clones and one is taken away, I don’t still have N ways of popping clones, I now have N-1 ways. That’s not the same as before.

And it so happens that DE has been a particularly fast way of generating clones and clone-deaths, much faster than most of the others you listed up-thread. So it’s even worse than that.

Pyroatheist.9031:

It will actually encourage conservation of dodges for more defense, instead of just recklessly dodging around for clone fodder.

What you describe in that derogatory tone is a perfectly valid means of generating offense in certain builds.

And it will make defense more tricky as well now. I’m used to the idea that if I have 3 illusions out, but I need to escape, I can count on a DE clone as a diversion. Now that will work sometimes, and not work sometimes. Can I adjust to the change? Sure. Is it a nerf? Definitely.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Overall, high skill users of clone death builds won’t see an impact in performance, just a style change. Low skill users will see lower performance, and that’s not really a bad thing.

You can use whatever “sour grapes” or “silver lining” rationalizations you want, but this is still most definitely a nerf.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey mesmers,

For clarification: if you have 0-2 clones out and you dodge, you will summon a clone.

If you have 3 clones out and you dodge, nothing will happen.

Why dont you think about what are you planning to do?

DE is a core mechanic of shatter mesmer.

Every shatter mesmer knows that being a good shatter mesmer is all about clone positioning.

2/3 of clone positioning is all about DE and the weapon you are wielding.

This change is just dumb.

Basically you are nerfing the tactical part of 1 of 2/3 high skill cap mesmer build to do what?

Another phantasm mesmer /afk buff? Do you want to give them the option to hold 3 phantasm out while having DE so in case all 3 phantasm die they have an easy immunity (dodge+distorsion) without the dps drop they’d have with DE subscriving phantasm? Do you realize that in this way you are basically giving a free distorsion like IP to phantasmal mesmer?

And again..

If you’d want to nerf clone death\PU build why aren’t you just changing how clone death works? you could reach exactly the same goal just making that clone subscriving dont apply death on clone proc.

In other words to fix a build (clone death) that you could easyly fix just changing how clone on death trait work, you are:

1) nerfing (again) shatter mesmer.

2) you are buffing (again) phantasm mesmer.

More pet and passive play (enjoy the zoo) is EXACTLY what this game deserve. good idea.

Moreover for future reference clones and illusions are NOT the same thing.
Illusions are clones & phantasms and clones are just clones.
All mesmer mechanic are made upon this, so its hard to understand (or balance) anything randomly calling clones everything out there.

Regards

Qaelyn.7612:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Basically, it means you can’t use the dodges to pop clones. You can still use weapon skills though, so you can get a high rate of clone poppage just as before.

Well no, you can’t. If I have N ways of generating clones and one is taken away, I don’t still have N ways of popping clones, I now have N-1 ways. That’s not the same as before.

And it so happens that DE has been a particularly fast way of generating clones and clone-deaths, much faster than most of the others you listed up-thread. So it’s even worse than that.

Pyroatheist.9031:

It will actually encourage conservation of dodges for more defense, instead of just recklessly dodging around for clone fodder.

What you describe in that derogatory tone is a perfectly valid means of generating offense in certain builds.

And it will make defense more tricky as well now. I’m used to the idea that if I have 3 illusions out, but I need to escape, I can count on a DE clone as a diversion. Now that will work sometimes, and not work sometimes. Can I adjust to the change? Sure. Is it a nerf? Definitely.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Overall, high skill users of clone death builds won’t see an impact in performance, just a style change. Low skill users will see lower performance, and that’s not really a bad thing.

You can use whatever “sour grapes” or “silver lining” rationalizations you want, but this is still most definitely a nerf.

Sure, it’s a nerf, but I gave up any thought of being able to influence the devs to make better decisions 2 or 3 months ago. Here is my philosophy.

GW2 has done a lot of things right, many that you don’t even notice until you go and play something else. WvW is fun, the PvE is fun if shallow, and PvP tournaments and matches are fun in a casual sense. I still do PvP because it’s fun to play, and winning is fun, and I generally win. I care much less about each upcoming balance patch because ultimately I’ll still probably be able to win and have fun no matter what the devs do.

If you try to take the pvp or balance in this game seriously, you’re going to have a bad time. If you simply treat it as a fun game, you’ll end up much happier.

In a way it’s a massive shame, since GW2 has so much potential that has been squandered by the incredibly incompetent dev team, but at the end of the day it’s just a game. I got my $60 worth, so I don’t regret buying the game.

Finally. That was really annoying.

Any build that allows people to throw stuff at you while running around aimlessly like a headless chicken should not work that well as that did.

Pyroatheist.9031:

If you try to take the pvp or balance in this game seriously, you’re going to have a bad time. If you simply treat it as a fun game, you’ll end up much happier.

In a way it’s a massive shame, since GW2 has so much potential that has been squandered by the incredibly incompetent dev team, but at the end of the day it’s just a game. I got my $60 worth, so I don’t regret buying the game.

Yep. I swore to myself that, after ruining my last couple of games for myself to some extent by getting too wrapped up in arguing about this stuff, that I wouldn’t do it this time. So I just try to accept that there are always going to be stupid things that make no sense, and balance problems that never get addressed, and stubborn developers who don’t know their own game as well as many of their players yet won’t listen to those players.

On the whole, IMO the dev team here is pretty good. Sure, they do things that make no sense, but overall things work fairly well. And they do at least talk to us, which I appreciate. (Of course, putting up with Warner Brothers / Turbine for two years will tend to lower one’s expectations a fair bit.)

The only thing that really burns my kitten, to be honest, is the rather blatant favoritism towards warriors as a class, and the annoying way that the dev team acts like if they pretend there’s no elephant in the living room that nobody else will notice it.

ETA: You mentioned PvP, and that IMO is the one area of the game that’s a rather complete mess and isn’t really excusable. They simply have not put forth a reasonable effort to fix the problems there, and after a couple of months of playing it regularly, I’m now basically at the point where it’s more fun for me to log off than to play this game’s PvP. I’m not alone in that, I think, which is why the whole area is so desolate, even though it could be dramatically improved with even a nominal effort.

For those arguing why the clarification was needed, this was what was said word for word. Basically if you heard what Jon said in the begining, his later comment about so if you are full on clones we are not gonna create a new one didn’t change the meaning of the original sentence since if you have clones out, deceptive evasion wasn’t gonna create new ones.

Jon: We are making it so Deceptive Evasion is only gonna create a clone when you don’t have clones out already. Cuz it also kinda disrupt the flow of your clones too. so there is basically you were either cheesing or you were having it disrupt the flow of your gameplay. It wasn’t really serving like a non-cheesing or non feeling broken moment.

Roy: It could replace your phantasms as well

Jon: Right. No No cuz it is a clone. But it is just you have a clone, you attacking, you there, you changing all your positioning. So if you are full clones we not gonna create a new one.

Thanks Dulfy, I saw your notes and similarly thought the comment was, at best, incredibly vague.

So basically they are nerfing a mesmer build style they apparently don’t even know exists. After about a decade playing MMOs I’m over being surprised, and can only “LOL”.

Bearlin.7238:

What if you have 3 clones out and you press a shatter… and while these clones are running to the target, you dodge to produce more clones? Will it actually produce clones?

this issue needs way more attention

As somebody who thoroughly enjoys playing Mesmer and has made active use of Deceptive Evasion in nearly every Mesmer build I have ever played I applaud this change if it’s implemented correctly. The only question that remains is how it will interact if you have clones that are running towards the target after you hit shatter and you dodge, in theory it should give you another clone but I wouldn’t be surprised if they get this wrong. If a developer could answer Bearlin’s question it would be much appreciated.