Guild Wars 2

—BUILD OF THE MONTH CONTEST (DECEMBER)—

LATEST ANNOUNCEMENT:
21st/01/2014: The contest has come to its conclusion. The winner is Chaos’ Shatterlock build. Please check the scoreboard for more details.
_________________________________________________________________

Hi everyone,
And the contest is back.

For those who are new to the mesmer community on this sub-forum and the Official Mesmer Forum Guild [OMFG], welcome and if you want to be part of this event, please join us at this thread.

I shall go over the new and more streamlined rules in the next few posts. I’m trying out this new hotlink feature to make it easy for you guys to go through my walls of text.

—1. How to join the contest—
—2. Build registration info—
—3. Scoreboard—
—4. How the contest works—
—5. Key dates and related news—
—6. The official review board (ORB)—
—7. How to get involved as a tester—
—8. How to get involved as a voter—
—9. FAQs—
—10. Miscellaneous—

Quick notes about the changes to the rules (for those who are already familiar with the old rules)
- no more tester requirement
- no down-voting
- new way for ORB members to give points to builds in Stage 1

Alright, let’s get started.
I’m looking forward to seeing a lot of you joining this month contest.
Cheers.

—1. How to join the contest—

So you have a cool mesmer build and you want to share with the rest of us. You’re confident that your build is original and you are the originator (inventor) of your unique build. Why not submit your build and enter this Build of the Month Contest to show the true potential of your build and earn yourself the Build of the Month Award?

It’s easy, simply post in this thread in the following format:

Build name:
Originator name: -insert your account name or mesmer character name here-
Link to build thread:

Even better, you can try to talk to people with tester rank in the guild and get yourself a tester partner. If you successfully secure a tester, you will get 3 bonus points, not a bad headstart in the contest huh? Such a tester will work solely on your build throughout the contest and can help you a lot to improve your build to perfection.

On a more specific note, you can follow the following steps outlined in details:

- /POST: Create a thread on forum to show as many details as possible about the build (just like they usually do already). Please follow this guide on how to present your build on forum.

- /ARRANGE: Arrange with a tester (someone with Tester rank in the guild) in-game to be your tester partner. You two will work solely on the build throughout the whole contest to improve, refine, and test the build to its fullest potential, etc. This step is not required since it can be hard to get a tester, but its strongly encouraged and you will get 3 bonus points if you can get one. Check Section 7 for a list of testers who volunteer for this contest.

- /SUBMIT: Submit your build, preferably in this format mentioned above.

- /REGISTER: Get your build reviewed and accepted by the Review Board to be fully registered in the contest.

—2. Build registration info—

———————————————————————————————————
Chaos’ Shatterlock

Build name: Shatterlock
Originator name: Chaos Archangel
Tester partner name: Warlord of Chaos
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
———————————————————————————————————
Ross Biddle’s The Holy Hell (Advanced Scout)

Build name: The Holy Hell Build (Advanced Scout)
Originator name: Buton (Ross Biddle)
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
Notes: The Advanced Scout variation of the build is chosen for the contest
———————————————————————————————————
Messiah’s Pooff Gone Retaliate V2

Build name: Pooff gone retaliate V2
Originator name: messiah
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
———————————————————————————————————
Arikyali’s The Mesmerizing Army

Build name: The Mesmerizing Army
Originator name: Arikyali
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
———————————————————————————————————
Dondagora’s The Smurf

Build name: The Smurf
Originator name: Dondagora
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
———————————————————————————————————
StickerHappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions

Build name: Phantasmic Interruptions
Originator name: StickerHappy
Tester partner name: skcamow
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
———————————————————————————————————
Bunda’s The Shmantra-er

Build name: The Shmantra-er
Originator name: Bunda
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: WITHDRAWN AT ORIGINATOR’S REQUEST
———————————————————————————————————
Dekk’s Merry Mantras

Build name: Merry Mantras
Originator name: Dekk
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: FULLY REGISTERED
———————————————————————————————————
Anarchy’s Phants Lock

Build name: Phants Lock
Originator name: Recursive Illusion (Anarchy)
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: DEFERRED TO NEXT CONTEST
———————————————————————————————————
Osicat’s Hidden Cat

Build name: Hidden Cat
Originator name: Osicat
Tester partner name: N/A
Link to build thread

Status: DEFERRED TO NEXT CONTEST
———————————————————————————————————
Handin’s 4-Signet Phantasm Warrior

Build name: 4-Signet Phantasm Warrior
Originator name: Handin
Tester partner name: Zen
Link to build thread

Status: DEFERRED TO NEXT CONTEST
———————————————————————————————————
Me Games Ma’s The (Cor)Rupter

Build name: The (Cor)Rupter
Originator name: Me Games Ma
Tester partner name: Maei Era Subdolo (maei.7295)
Link to build thread

Status: DEFERRED TO NEXT CONTEST
———————————————————————————————————

—3. Scoreboard—

Stage 1 results (finalized 30th/12/2013)
———————————————————————————————————
Chaos’ Shatterlock
Link to build thread
Current score: 5
Final score: 5
———————————————————————————————————
Ross Biddle’s The Holy Hell (Advanced Scout)
Link to build thread
Current score: 1
Final score: 1
———————————————————————————————————
Messiah’s Pooff Gone Retaliate V2
Link to build thread
Current score: 0
Final score: 0
———————————————————————————————————
Arikyali’s The Mesmerizing Army
Link to build thread
Current score: 0
Final score: 0
———————————————————————————————————
Dondagora’s The Smurf
Link to build thread
Current score: 0
Final score: 0
———————————————————————————————————
StickerHappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions
Link to build thread
Current score: 3
Final score: 3
———————————————————————————————————
Dekk’s Merry Mantras
Link to build thread
Current score: 1
Final score: 1
———————————————————————————————————
Stage 2 results (finalized 21th/01/2014)
———————————————————————————————————
Chaos’ Shatterlock
Link to build thread
Current score: 11
ORB results: 7/7
Final score: 25
———————————————————————————————————
Ross Biddle’s The Holy Hell (Advanced Scout)
Link to build thread
Current score: 4
ORB results: 6/7
Final score: 17
———————————————————————————————————
StickerHappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions
Link to build thread
Current score: 9
ORB results: 7/8
Final score: 24
———————————————————————————————————
Dekk’s Merry Mantras
Link to build thread
Current score: 1
ORB results: 4/6
Final score: 11
———————————————————————————————————

—4. How the contest works—

Time frame:
The contest is conducted in 2 stages.
- Stage 1: the first 2 weeks from the day the contest commences; welcomes all submitted builds as long as they are original.
- Stage 2: after Stage 1, the contest will go into Stage 2 and this stage will continue to the assigned end date of the contest. Only the 3 builds with highest scores at the end of Stage 1 will be shortlisted and allowed to enter Stage 2. These builds will be thoroughly tested by the ORB to see which one is the best.

Application window:
Builds can be submitted as early as start of the contest. The deadline for submission for this month contest is 22th December.

Eligibility:
Only builds conceived and posted on forum after 7th October (the end of September BotM contest) are eligible for the contest.

Scoring system:
When a build is submitted, it will be briefly reviewed to make sure it’s an original build with a unique flavour, and based on well-defined ideas and purposes. If so, the build is then accepted to enter the contest and will get registered on the scoreboard.

Throughout the contest, people from the Crowd (which includes everyone except the participants themselves) can post their (popularity) votes in this thread for their liked builds. Such a vote will net the build 1 point.

Also, the build is automatically awarded 3 bonus points if a tester volunteers to dedicate their time to it during the contest. Only 1 tester for 1 build.

Around the end of Stage 1, the finalized version of the build will be evaluated by the ORB and each ORB member will cast their own vote for each build. Each vote from one ORB member will gain the build 3 points (instead of 1 point from a Crowd member).

Around the end of the Stage 2, the ORB will give out tests for the builds to perform and will rank them accordingly on a rating scale from 1 to 10. There are 3 members on the Official Review Board, so each build should go through 3 different tests. The tests will be arranged through in-game communication between the participants and the Board and their details are to be revealed by the Board members accordingly.
Note that some ORB members might purposely choose to test the builds by themselves and relay their feedback to the participants. As a result, the build can earn up to 30 points from 3 members of the Board in this final stage; that is equivalent to 30 popularity votes.

The best build of the month will be selected based on the total points it has gained from both the ORB and the Crowd throughout the contest. The build with the highest score will win and be awarded.

Reward system:
The originator of the winning build will receive a gem store item valued within the range 600 to 1000 gems. I will pm the winner in-game to work out the exact details of the award.

The tester of the winning build (if it has one) will receive a gem store item valued within the range 200 to 500 gems. Again, the exact reward will be discussed with them around then.

The reward will be sent to you by myself through the gifting system as soon as the final results come through. I will post a screenshot of the in-game completed transaction window to prove that the reward has been delivered. I will follow up with the winners to ensure they receive it. However, for whatever reasons that you don’t receive the reward, I will not be held liable in anyway. If that happens, you should contact Anet support team to resolve the issue.

—5. Key dates and related news—

Key dates
7th Dec: Contest starts.
22th Dec: Registration ends, cannot submit your build for the contest after this date. Voting starts.
30th Dec: Stage 1 of the contest ends and Stage 2 starts.
15th Jan 2014: Stage 2 of the contest ends and the contest is concluded.

Related News
- 7th/12/2013: September BotM Contest officially commences.
- 12th/12/2013: Submission deadline extended to 22th from the original 15th/12 date. Contest is pushed further into January next year.
- 22th/12/2013: Registration closed. Finalized list of builds entering this contest. Voting begins.
- 30th/12/2013: Stage 1 ends. Stage 2 starts. 4 builds have shortlisted to proceed in Stage 2.
- 21st/01/2014: Stage 2 ends, BotM contest is concluded. Winner is Shatterlock build.

—6. The official review board (ORB)—

For this month event, the following people have been chosen to represent the Official Review Board (ORB)
Pyroatheist
Natsu Dragneel
Alissah

skcamow is an unofficial backup member of the ORB and will join the ORB in the absence of any official member. He will also act as a second point of contact in case you have questions to ask about the contest and cannot reach me while I’m away.

—7. How to get involved as a tester—

To the testers in the guild, if you are interested in testing submitted builds in the contest, please post here and let me know about it.

I keep here a list of the volunteers to help you testers and the originators connect

- Warlord of Chaos – working on Chaos’ Shatterlock build
- skcamow – working on StickerHappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions build

Remember if the build wins, you shall have your own reward as well assuming you contribute enough to the build as deemed by the originator.

—8. How to get involved as a voter—

Everyone except the ORB members and the originators themselves can cast your vote on a build if they like it enough. Voting will be available when the application closes, that is, it will start on the build application deadline date 22th Dec for this contest.

To keep it simple, just post +1 to build name and share your thoughts on why you like the build if you can, I’m sure the originators will much appreciate it.
Also, don’t forget to check out the scoreboard from time to time to see how your favorite builds are doing.

—9. FAQs—

—10. Miscellaneous—

Alright, that should be all the information about the contest. Come on guys, lets get this show on the road
As for myself, I need to take a break from all this editing.

Fancy thread structure.

Considering the previewed changes – and maybe not yet announced changes – comming next week, don’t you think the application deadline is a bit early?

Xaylin.1860:

Considering the previewed changes – and maybe not yet announced changes – comming next week, don’t you think the application deadline is a bit early?

I just put it out there for the moment, would happy to extend it down the road if needed.
I’m sure the theory-crafting has been going strong already.

There will definitely be some interesting builds to test after the patch. I do think it will take some more time then the 15th for theorycrafting with the new heal and buffs. 5 days of making a build and testing it isn’t a lot to me. I have a feeling though mantras could be popular (Pyro don’t hate on full mantra specs ). Signet builds could be really good as well with that new signet (which I think is broken OP). I guess we will see how creative people get, since I don’t have a lot time still.

Bumpy… Wait, No, That wasn’t a bump!

Build name: Shatterlock
Originator name: Chaos Archangel
Tester partner name: -Warlord of Chaos-
Link to build thread: url=https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvP-WvW-Shatterlock-Lockdown-Burst/first#post3340752
Status: Freshly produced and waiting for tomorrow upgrade. =P

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Build name: Shatterlock
Originator name: Chaos Archangel
Tester partner name: -Warlord of Chaos-
Link to build thread: url=https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvP-WvW-Shatterlock-Lockdown-Burst/first#post3340752
Status: Freshly produced and waiting for tomorrow upgrade. =P

Hi Chaos, glad to have you and Warlord of Chaos in the contest.
I have updated the thread to include your build. I also put it straight to the scoreboard since I don’t see how this build would have any originality issue

Build name: The Holy Hell Build
Originator name: Buton
Link to build thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Guide-The-Holy-Hell-Build-s/first#post3344064
Status: Classic, pre-patch build goes up against post patch bonanza.

Great another one of these.
I don’t really like this. Just a way to spread noob “easy to use” builds to the masses.

What was the last build? Blackwater? A build were you run in circles summoning phantasms and applying conditions in a high in vitality and toughness defense while also stealthing? The build that is very passive play and needs no skill to use?
Ya must have been that one.
Anyway
I find it very funny that the most effective builds are those that need no skill to use and are just auto piloted on the back of passive play. So knowing that people will judge the builds by their effectiveness and how easy it is use the build. the most likely builds to actually win the contest are going to be very easy to use and yet also effective noob builds.

So shouldn’t this “build of the month contest” actually be called the
“Most effective and easy to use noob build of the month contest”?

I am very curious about what will be selected this time though. Simply based on the idea that it has to be a unique concept.

Although Because I know that the builds will be judged only on their effectiveness and how easy it is to use. I have no doubt that the build will be high on passive defense(toughness ,vitality ,and or healing power.) Most likely 30 in chaos. Not very sure if it will be phantasm or condition. Although I know it won’t be shatter.
Well I guess we will have to wait and see

That’s rather unfair and presumptuous.

The Blackwater build was popular BEFORE the BoTM, and even then the judges had given Sensotix’s Bountiful Interruption build a higher score for having greater versatility (PvP, PvE, WvW) among other things. It was the vote of the crowd that pushed Blackwater into victory, but like I said the build was already building popularity before then.

And it works both ways, the BoTM also gives less popular builds more limelight and a chance to prove themselves versus more established builds. Ease-of-use is only one factor, and not a major one at that. Hell, I never make easy builds. Shatterlock is the easiest build I’ve ever published and even that is more difficult than your standard Shatter/Phantasm build.

@*Ross*: I love that Runes of the Guardian concept, its hella creative man.

@Chaos

I don’t see the point of making builds that are not effective and more difficult to use. Just because it is ‘noob friendly’ doesn’t make it a bad build.

Xavi.6591:

@Chaos

I don’t see the point of making builds that are not effective and more difficult to use. Just because it is ‘noob friendly’ doesn’t make it a bad build.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that at all! (and there isn’t a point of a build that’s both ineffective and difficult… unless it’s hella fun for personal use =P )

I meant that the BoTM doesn’t score builds simply based off how easy they are to use. Every class has builds that are easier for newcomers to pick up and there’s never anything wrong with that.

Edit: I’m so dumb. -_- You meant the other Chaos.

I do have a problem when people try to demean someone else’s win with stuff like “Oh you’re playing a easymode Mesmer. Play a class that takes skill” or “Only noobs use PU”. Every build has it’s strengths and weakness, but people love to try and salvage their pride by talking down on their opponent or making them seem “lesser” in some way. That kind of thinking is counterproductive to learning and growing from your mistakes.

As most of you are already aware, us mesmers get all buffed up this patch so lets see how some more new innovative builds entering this contest.
Cheers!

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Xavi.6591:

@Chaos

I don’t see the point of making builds that are not effective and more difficult to use. Just because it is ‘noob friendly’ doesn’t make it a bad build.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that at all! (and there isn’t a point of a build that’s both ineffective and difficult… unless it’s hella fun for personal use =P )

I meant that the BoTM doesn’t score builds simply based off how easy they are to use. Every class has builds that are easier for newcomers to pick up and there’s never anything wrong with that.

Edit: I’m so dumb. -_- You meant the other Chaos.

I do have a problem when people try to demean someone else’s win with stuff like “Oh you’re playing a easymode Mesmer. Play a class that takes skill” or “Only noobs use PU”. Every build has it’s strengths and weakness, but people love to try and salvage their pride by talking down on their opponent or making them seem “lesser” in some way. That kind of thinking is counterproductive to learning and growing from your mistakes.

More than that, at this point for the mesmer class and community, this sort of thing is only introducing new builds with which to play. It’s not as though all of our existing mainstream builds have become obsolete, and people are still playing many of the original mix.

But the real problem with statements like Chaos’s is that he’s faulting people for playing to win. That’s backwards thinking, and counter productive to growth, not only for mesmers, but all classes who step up to oppose them.

here is my new version build
Pooff gone retaliate V2
by messiah
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Pooff-gone-retaliate-V2/first#post3352801
my old version was traited
0,25,30,15,0 with less conditions clear.

hope you like it

As a plug for the many solid builds I’ve seen over the past few months, I nominate the following for the December BOTM contest:

Deathcon’s Dire Condition Build
Lahel’s Shackel’d
Witch’s Corrupt Build
Requiem’s WvW Mantra Condition Build
Menace’s Apex Predator
StickerHappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions
BlackDevil’s PU Hybrid WvW Build

These are just nominations – for any of these to be considered for the BOTM, the build owner must post in this thread the proper information detailed in this post: How to enter December BOTM Contest

Don’t be shy! This is your chance for your build to be tested and refined by some very friendly and helpful people.

Skcamow, this is a really cool idea. Thanks for nominating the above builds.
Owners of those builds, if you happen to stumble across this thread, please consider joining us. I believe all those builds are solid and deserve a lot of more attention from our mesmer community.

Also, just a short announcement:

As the patch brought about quite a number of dramatic changes to our class, I am happy to extend to the submission deadline to 22th December and pushing the contest further into January next year.

Despite the name of the contest and as much as I’d like the wrap this in a month’s timeframe, I think we’re looking at quality here and more time is needed to do any justice to the builds submitted.

Please check Section 5. Key dates and related news for the update on this date change.

Thank you scam,, i feel so honored

Even though my build posts have a 1-2 day lifespan, after I respond no one responds anymore

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Xavi.6591:

@Chaos

I don’t see the point of making builds that are not effective and more difficult to use. Just because it is ‘noob friendly’ doesn’t make it a bad build.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that at all! (and there isn’t a point of a build that’s both ineffective and difficult… unless it’s hella fun for personal use =P )

I meant that the BoTM doesn’t score builds simply based off how easy they are to use. Every class has builds that are easier for newcomers to pick up and there’s never anything wrong with that.

Edit: I’m so dumb. -_- You meant the other Chaos.

I do have a problem when people try to demean someone else’s win with stuff like “Oh you’re playing a easymode Mesmer. Play a class that takes skill” or “Only noobs use PU”. Every build has it’s strengths and weakness, but people love to try and salvage their pride by talking down on their opponent or making them seem “lesser” in some way. That kind of thinking is counterproductive to learning and growing from your mistakes.

If you have a problem with people demeaning other peoples builds.
Then I have a problem when people boast themselves when they are using a noob build.
If you use a cheap easy to use and yet effective build you do not have the right to consider yourself more superior then someone that uses a harder to use and yet less effective build.

Many times I have found very egotistical people that beam with superiority from their effectiveness and don’t seam to realize that when using their OP build/spec/trait/skill their effectiveness is not relative to their skill nearly as someone using a more honorable build/spec/trait/skill.

If there is ANY imbalance that people can take advantage of in order to reduce the skill requirement and increase their effectiveness they will unless they have some sense of fair honorable equality.

Usually only a few people will use that build

But if those builds are then popularized Like THIS thread is doing. Then those “few” people that use that build will become “A LOT” of people using that build.

I have seen it over and over again. tank stun warriors, at first very few then became massive in popularity, tank condition PU Mesmer builds. Few at first then massive in popularity. I can go on and on.

1) But the point is. Not all builds are equal in the skill to effectiveness ratio. Balance is not yet perfect to a desirable degree and this may not change.

2) Builds do exist that take less skill to use and yet are more effective then they should be in comparison.

3)Those builds are then highly popularized because of sources like THIS and we have our new noob build meta.

Granted I have seen some really unique hard to use builds on this forum and other sources. However they are not very popular unlike more easy to use and effective builds. Which is sad.

This reality in which the imbalanced “noob” builds will always be far more popularly used then more balanced and “skill needed” builds is sad.

Chaos.3579:

If you use a cheap easy to use and yet effective build you do not have the right to consider yourself more superior then someone that uses a harder to use and yet less effective build.

That’s your opinion, based on your preconceptions about what makes a build good or not.

As far as I am concerned, the definition of a good build is one with a high ratio of effectiveness to skill requirement. Very strong, experienced players can do well with any build — the trick to a good build is making one that mere mortals can be effective with.

So yes, I consider a build superior if a newbie scrub like me can use it well.

This attitude that a build can only be good if it’s really hard to master is just some misguided form of elitism.

Regardless, people can vote for what they want for whatever reasons they want. There’s no need to demean builds you dislike.

Qaelyn.7612:

Chaos.3579:

If you use a cheap easy to use and yet effective build you do not have the right to consider yourself more superior then someone that uses a harder to use and yet less effective build.

That’s your opinion, based on your preconceptions about what makes a build good or not.

As far as I am concerned, the definition of a good build is one with a high ratio of effectiveness to skill requirement. Very strong, experienced players can do well with any build — the trick to a good build is making one that mere mortals can be effective with.

So yes, I consider a build superior if a newbie scrub like me can use it well.

This attitude that a build can only be good if it’s really hard to master is just some misguided form of elitism.

Regardless, people can vote for what they want for whatever reasons they want. There’s no need to demean builds you dislike.

It is not a perception of what makes a good build. Its a perception of what makes a skilled player.

Granted if a build has a low skill requirement to achieve a Certain level of effectiveness that is greater than other builds then yes It is a good build. However that does not mean that the player is skilled when using it just from the effectiveness it shows.

Think of it like this. If its a noob build its a sword. If its a skill requiring build its a spoon.
Although its takes a level of skill to kill a opponent with a sword it would take a legendary amount of skill to have the same level of result with a spoon.

The point is that balance=skill to effectiveness ratio. And balance of the game is having a equal skill to effectiveness ratio among the builds.

This balance is destroyed or damaged when you have certain parts of the combat system that are too week or to strong which results in a different skill to effectiveness ratio.

OP builds take advantage of these imbalances by using 1 or more of the parts that are too strong in the larger scheme of things. Just as UP (under powered) builds try the parts that are too week.

Overall my point is that if you use a OP build then you should not consider yourself skilled just looking at you effectiveness. And the opposite holds true for a underpowered build.

@Chaos:
Why can’t there be easy, yet effective builds? I’m not saying that we should all just use the most OP build there is, but is choosing less powerful or effective builds that are also hard to use “honorable” or stupid? The latter, I think. Now, hard to use builds that are also effective? Sure, if a person is willing to work on using it, then that’s not stupid, but simply just choosing a playstyle, not necessarily that the build is better than others(though it may be). If a good player wants to play a shatter mesmer, doesn’t it make sense that they choose the best shatter build that fits them over the “honorably” worst shatter build that takes 10x more work to make it as effective?
And contrary to what Qaelyn said above, though I think it’s mostly right, the builds should be judged by potential, as in how good it will get if paired with an equally good player that’s able to use it perfectly. The potential ability of a build is what makes a good build, in my opinion. In fact, this is an interesting topic. Might start a topic about this.

Edit: As for your spoon/sword reference, think about it like this: A noob can kill a slime with the sword, while a master can kill a dragon with the very same sword. Again, bringing out the build’s effectiveness to its maximum is skill. While killing the slime with a spoon is skillful, it becomes foolish if a noob can do the same work just by using the sword.

Chaos.3579:

Granted if a build has a low skill requirement to achieve a Certain level of effectiveness that is greater than other builds then yes It is a good build. However that does not mean that the player is skilled when using it just from the effectiveness it shows.

Who says that demonstrating the skill of the player is the holy grail of build creation?

Strange as it may seem, some people actually play this game to, you know, have fun. Not try to impress others with their skill.

Chaos.3579:

Although it takes a level of skill to kill a opponent with a sword it would take a legendary amount of skill to have the same level of result with a spoon.

You’re sort of making my point for me here. Based on this, the best way to demonstrate skill is to use a build that is far from optimal. Why bother with a build contest at all in that case? After all, the worse the build, the better your skill if you can still win with it, right?

Heck, why bother with a build at all? If you really want to demonstrate your skill you can just run with no trait points used whatsoever, right?

Again, I think you have allowed your conceptions about skill to color the purpose of this sort of contest.

Chaos.3579:

OP builds take advantage of these imbalances by using 1 or more of the parts that are too strong in the larger scheme of things. Just as UP (under powered) builds try the parts that are too week.

What you call “OP” I call “clever”, “elegant” or "effective.

Chaos.3579:

Overall my point is that if you use a OP build that you should not consider yourself skilled just looking at you effectiveness. And the opposite holds true for a underpowered build.

What makes you think I care if anyone considers me skilled or not?

This is a build contest, not a contest to prove who’s the most skilled at combat.

Dondagora.9645:

And contrary to what Qaelyn said above, though I think it’s mostly right, the builds should be judged by potential, as in how good it will get if paired with an equally good player that’s able to use it perfectly. The potential ability of a build is what makes a good build, in my opinion. In fact, this is an interesting topic. Might start a topic about this.

That’s why I phrased it as a ratio of effectiveness to difficulty. An ideal build is effective even for a new player and becomes moreso as the player’s skill increases.

So guys,… umm. I think I understand what you are all trying to say here. I mean, I know that you have to be somewhat skilled in this game if you are to play certain classes, and I think Mesmer implies that in some ways. I also get that you guys want a build to be challenging/easy for players of all types. So I think the best build like that right now in this forum besides the Blackwater Build is the Maximised Hybrid build. I definitely acknowledge that that build is good, but what about some of the other builds listed here? Some of them are harder to play in many ways, and I was wondering if it’s gonna affect the contest. I mean, I could really care less about the rewards in this contest or any of that kinda stuff. I just want people to enjoy my build and have some fun with it, but you see, I have noticed that some builds take more skills than others, So just a heads up to you guys, I think that other builds besides my build should be given a second or third look at just because they are hard to play. I just want people to enjoy the builds listed on here, and not worry too much about the gems in store for the winners.

@Chaos: Idk, just smells to me like you’ve been losing to PU specs and you don’t know how to adapt in order to beat them.

The true skill of a player is not shown in what build they play, but how they adapt to overcome a difficult challenge in any way possible. You appear to be failing miserably in that regard.

Sometimes I play PU builds. Sometimes I don’t. Regardless of the circumstance, I don’t complain about them because I understand how they work, and I beat them regardless. You should try doing something similar.

Dondagora.9645:

Who says that demonstrating the skill of the player is the holy grail of build creation?

Strange as it may seem, some people actually play this game to, you know, have fun. Not try to impress others with their skill.

1) the holy grail of build creation is designing a build perfectly based on a idea. You can make a build based on effectiveness, skillful use, or anything really. It depends on how you look at it if its right or wrong. You look at builds from a view of what is effective,has potential. While I have been trying to point you out to a duel point of view.
Telling you to see the effectiveness but also look at the difficulty (skill) needed to reach that effectiveness. OP builds have a higher skill to effectiveness ratio than the average build, and have a higher potential.

2) your right. having fun is the purpose of playing this game. However op builds take that away from some of the players. Mainly their opponents. If everyone ran a OP build besides you, would you have fun? Getting hit by a op attack, not being able to get through a op defense. Is that fun? Probably not if you don’t have the skill to match the effectiveness that’s needed. You would have to also run a OP build with somewhat the same skill to effectiveness ratio as everyone else in order to be on the same effectiveness level.

Dondagora.9645:

You’re sort of making my point for me here. Based on this, the best way to demonstrate skill is to use a build that is far from optimal. Why bother with a build contest at all in that case? After all, the worse the build, the better your skill if you can still win with it, right?

Heck, why bother with a build at all? If you really want to demonstrate your skill you can just run with no trait points used whatsoever, right?

Again, I think you have allowed your conceptions about skill to color the purpose of this sort of contest.

What you call “OP” I call “clever”, “elegant” or "effective.

3) yes the best way to demonstrate skill is to have a build in which you will need a insane amount of skill in Order to reach a certain level of effectiveness. However this is not the point I am trying to get across. I am not trying to turn this contest in to “most skill requiring buildcontest”. There is a balance in it. Just because I am telling you to not use a OP build does not mean I want you to do the opposite.
In other words try and respect the fun of others. If you run a OP build is it fair for those that do not?

Dondagora.9645:

What makes you think I care if anyone considers me skilled or not?

This is a build contest, not a contest to prove who’s the most skilled at combat.

That’s why I phrased it as a ratio of effectiveness to difficulty. An ideal build is effective even for a new player and becomes more so as the player’s skill increases.

4) the point of this contest is to find a unique and effective build. I am not questioning this.
My issue with it is that because of how the builds will be judged. Most likely it will be a OP builds that wins, and then that build will be mass popularized. Just like the black water build.
It is relevant If it has a low-skill to high-effectiveness ratio because if its op and its mass popularized the fun of the people running fair skill to effectiveness ratio builds will be damaged to a degree when fighting it.
Usually when I find a contest there are restrictions. Like you cant use this or that for balance purposes so that the winner is not just a cheap spec. This contest has no restrictions. And because there ARE some OP objects the Mesmer has at its disposal chances are a spec that uses it will win.
And although its bad enough for some people to run a op spec. Is it alright to mass popularize it?

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Chaos: Idk, just smells to me like you’ve been losing to PU specs and you don’t know how to adapt in order to beat them.

The true skill of a player is not shown in what build they play, but how they adapt to overcome a difficult challenge in any way possible. You appear to be failing miserably in that regard.

Sometimes I play PU builds. Sometimes I don’t. Regardless of the circumstance, I don’t complain about them because I understand how they work, and I beat them regardless. You should try doing something similar.

1) interesting. Do I have trouble with PU builds? No. Though they do pose more of a threat then most Mesmers in a 1v1 situation. And not because of the skill of the Mesmer. In actuality running a PU build is far easier then running a regular tank mesmer build. I speak from experience using the trait before and after the buff. stealth is already very powerful on a Mesmer. I know how to counter it and I have. However other less skilled players get the short end of the stick when fighting a PU condition build

@Chaos, this is a build contest, so the judges are going to pick the build that performs the best relative to what it was set out to do, period. If that’s a “cheesy” build, easy to play spec, then so be it. If a build is that good, it should be exposed and popularized.

There is no bias to any build entered. Each one that progresses to the 2nd stage will be equally analyzed by the judges in order to discover the true potential and effectiveness. The judges aren’t going to focus on one build or another based on premise. An objective summary will be provided for each.

On another note, I too have noticed that most folks gravitate towards builds that are easier to play. There are many builds posted which are solid, but don’t get as much attention because they have a higher skill cap. What about any of this is a bad thing? You have easier to use builds and harder ones to master, creating diversity for a diverse player base.

Instead of refusing to review builds easy to play, I would rather encourage players to promote the builds that require more skill. It’s really up to all of us, starting with you and me.

Chaos.3579:

2) your right. having fun is the purpose of playing this game. However op builds take that away from some of the players. Mainly their opponents. If everyone ran a OP build besides you, would you have fun? Getting hit by a op attack, not being able to get through a op defense. Is that fun?

I’m newer than most players, started in October. I’m older than most players, with worse reflexes. I’m also currently trying to get accustomed to a new game controller, meaning my fingers are stumbling all over each other.

In my hands, an “OP” build is average at best. Playing a “high skill” build I’d die to a decent player in seconds.

Now, given that, which build would be more fun for an opponent to face?

People are different. Things aren’t always as simple as they appear.

Chaos.3579:

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Chaos: Idk, just smells to me like you’ve been losing to PU specs and you don’t know how to adapt in order to beat them.

The true skill of a player is not shown in what build they play, but how they adapt to overcome a difficult challenge in any way possible. You appear to be failing miserably in that regard.

Sometimes I play PU builds. Sometimes I don’t. Regardless of the circumstance, I don’t complain about them because I understand how they work, and I beat them regardless. You should try doing something similar.

1) interesting. Do I have trouble with PU builds? No. Though they do pose more of a threat then most Mesmers in a 1v1 situation. And not because of the skill of the Mesmer. In actuality running a PU build is far easier then running a regular tank mesmer build. I speak from experience using the trait before and after the buff. stealth is already very powerful on a Mesmer. I know how to counter it and I have. However other less skilled players get the short end of the stick when fighting a PU condition build

So basically you see yourself as the righteous defender of the sacred skill base of this game? Cute.

I think Chaos has a point..

Menace has also said it himself. I also do think that the skill required to be able to play a certain build will be a huge factor. I hope it won’t deter others from testing/playing it.

Let’s face it, aside from people who really have passion for the mesmer class,. Others when they get used to a lower skill cap build they won’t even bother playing/testing the higher one.

I hope everyone finds the time to play all the nominated builds. Not just try, or play one time and if People don’t have the feel for it, they won’t play it. Its not about the effing gems. haha

I have a suggestion

Those builds who are centered on interrupt make the testers who are good in that area. Ex: Chaos, scam.

Those builds that are PU centered are to be tested by the people who are good at that to ensure the max effectiveness.

And for the gems.. give everyone who are nominated prizes, so that we could minimize losses, As scam was saying most folks gravitate toward the easier builds. Builds with higher skill caps would still be in a fair situation if that was case was to happen.

You know, Chaos’s argument brings up a good point. It’s been something that actually had me somewhat worried about the build I posted for a couple reasons.

- Shatterlock is definitely one of the more difficult builds published recently; it takes an actual time investment to learn how to play and then months of practice to learn how to master. At the time when I posted it for the contest, I had kind of overlooked this face. “Sure it’s a bit difficult, but anyone who plays shatter should be alright.” is what I told myself, but I had completely overlooked the fact that I had been playing lockdown builds for over 3 months now (Wow, time flies! I still feel like I just published Mind Crush)and am still learning new tricks and figuring out the best methods and techniques for lockdown as a Mesmer. That’s why I love lockdown builds, because it doesn’t get stale easily since there’s so much to learn.

… but that’s what has me worried too. Since I was a judge on the last BoTM, I know for a fact that Chaos is wrong about how builds are scored. The difficulty of the build was a minor factor in the overall score and if we had any trouble figuring out the playstyle we’d approach the build creators for an example. (Sigh. I got smacked up by a signet build. Not my finest moment, but Kamaau did his thing beautifully). The only reason Blackwater won the last BoTM was because it was already popular, and so it won via the popular vote even though the judges scored Sensotix’s build highest. We had rules to the scoring, we judged based off viability in PvE, PvP, and WvW and gave extra points to the build’s venue (for example Sensotix’s build was made for PvP but still performed well in PvE and WvW), but .. dat popular vote.

So now I’m at the point where I feel pressured to put out a video in order to prove that this build is worth using. I had to ask myself “Why would anyone use this build over a standard shatter build if it’s more difficult?” and prove that beyond the fact that it’s different and thus harder to predict the added lockdown is worthwhile to trait into rather than speccing for strait damage. I have to prove that sacrificing Deceptive Evasion for Confounding Suggestions is worth it, because people don’t have the time to spend a month learning the playstyle like I did.

If I had approached the contest thinking “Oh, only the easy builds win” then I wouldn’t have wasted my time entering.

Plus: Dat publicity =P

Contest Question:

There is a difference in dates (application or registration) between sections 4 & 5. Is the deadline for submission the 15th (section 4) or the 22nd (section 5)? Or what is the difference between build application and registration? Thanks

Dekk.3459:

Contest Question:

There is a difference in dates (application or registration) between sections 4 & 5. Is the deadline for submission the 15th (section 4) or the 22nd (section 5)? Or what is the difference between build application and registration? Thanks

Application means you submit your build to be considered for the contest. The review board then determines if the build is unique and if so, approves it to be entered. At that point, the build is registered.

The original deadline for application was 12/15, but keenlam extended it to 12/22.

Welp, I may as well post mine:

Build name: The Mesmerizing Army
Originator name: Arikyali.5804
Link to build thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-Mesmerizing-Army-Soloist-s-PvE-build/first#post3364413

would like to enter but exams are coming on monday and i dont really have the time to. =(

Dekk.3459:

Contest Question:

There is a difference in dates (application or registration) between sections 4 & 5. Is the deadline for submission the 15th (section 4) or the 22nd (section 5)? Or what is the difference between build application and registration? Thanks

Thanks for pointing out. As the deadline was extended, I just forgot to update the change in Section 4 as well. So its now fixed.

Arikyali.5804:

Welp, I may as well post mine: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-Mesmerizing-Army-Soloist-s-PvE-build/first#post3364413

Hi Arikyali, glad to have you in the contest.
Could you please repost in the following format (just for my convenience):

Build name:
Originator name: -insert your account name or mesmer character name here-
Link to build thread:

Build name: The Smurf
Originator name: Dondagora
Link to build thread