Guild Wars 2

yeah, I’m blocked on the same step at the moment too.

…trying not to lose HOPE.

Sorry, I had to.

Props to [NAGA] for an awesome GvG skrim.
Maybe next time around you won’t let me wreak havoc in your back line. ;D

PopeUrban.2578:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Once it’s pointed out there are builds that could counter unbeatable build… lay down the trap card. Well I suppose that’s a good way to completely evade the point I was trying to make. Fair enough.

Honestly the “trap card” is a viable argument when it comes to thieves. Stealth is literally half of all of our defensive traits and skills.

It’s the equivalent of dropping an anti-aegis card. Some classes will be minorly affected by it, but guardians would be majorly effected by it.

I understand WHY the traps exist. Veil zergs and stealthed portalbombs can make a joke of defensive preparations. However I feel that the implementation is lacking. Applying 30 seconds of revealed is extremely harsh if you’re a stealth thief, and almost ignorable if you’re running any other build. This isn’t like the confusion nerf. Confusion mesmers can still kill people, can still use the build. This trap effectively removes an entire trait line from play for thieves for 30 seconds, regardless of where they go.

A better implementation would have been to create an anti-stealth field around the trap once triggered than ticked 1s revealed every 1.5 seconds. This would be just as effective against those problem tactics.

On a larger scale though, I’m expecting to see more of these traps. I wouldn’t be suprised to see anti-speed traps, anti-boon traps, and all other manner of harsh defenses that will likely hit other classes just as hard. It only makes sense as it promotes combined force efforts and discourages homogenized and stale WvW tactics in favor of being creative and adapatable.

This is a good thing, but only as an end result. These traps really shouldn’t have been released piecemeal as the message that this sort of release sends is a pretty clear “We don’t want stealth thieves in WvW” whether it’s intended or not.

Completely nullifying our entire Shadow Arts tree (and any points placed in it) is something that should never be countered with a “PvE item”.
In short, QFT’d.

jpnova.4572:

I’ll look for the thread, search function isn’t really helping though. Thanks for the idea though, my friend decided to run venom share, guess I won’t do that then.

I got you covered bro.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-S-D-D-P-Small-group-fighting/first#post1840069

greyblue.4962:

When a zerg rolls over you in WvW and 8 of them step aside to spam /sit on your corpse for 5 minutes, is this the sort of thing that should be reported using /report? What is Anet’s stance on this?

What about everyone else?

My own take is that this sort of behavior promotes a generally bad atmosphere in the game, and is likely to drive away potential newcomers. It seems like the sort of thing that should be discouraged.

Communist. :P

I prefer the simulated violence of dispatching the digital avatar of a living, breathing, person.
I’ll /salute or /bow for opponents I’ve had knock-down 2-3 min. duels with – but everyone else gets /laugh or /kneel (because my teabag hangs low).

Especially when your 20+ BAF’s couldn’t res you before my stomp finished.

[G]old.

Coward Zerg < Competent and coordinated AoE sloots- err, Ele’s.

Ritt.3069:

Limited mobility? Not sure if trolling. Thieves are likely to be the most mobile class in almost any PvP map w/ all the shortcuts they can take using shadow steps. The only other class to even rival that mobility is ele.

One of the thieves you faced was rank 3, so he obviously hadn’t played more than a couple of matches. The other one was probably just terrible. I don’t ever remember scoring a 0 in any match ever as a thief, and on the contrary place among the top players almost every match of hotjoin I play.

Play tournies if you want to face thieves that are genuinely good. You shouldn’t draw conclusions playing a few bads in hotjoin.

Qouted for epic.

“Necro moving on close, engaging.”

ski.4927:

Allow me to apologize to all you PvE thieves. I always get caught up in these discussions.

Let me state, for the record….I only play in WvW. I don’t PvE, and therefore do not care about skill rotations.

I agree…thief PvE is painful in dungeons at time.

With that said…allow me to ammend my initial statement…

PvPing thief tears make me happy.

That’s just the optimal rotation (assuming the impossible 100% time-on-target) for maximum “balanced build” dps with D/D.

Imo, 4s Revealed was negated by going /P. BP eff-tee-dubs.

randomfightfan.4091:

Humorless.1573:

ski.4927:

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

And what does 4s change instead of 3s? Other than making P/D damage even worse.

It made the whole rotation feel unwieldy. Before the CnD/invis rotation flowed perfectly with a full aa rotation or 3 pistol shots. Now it’s a full aa rotation… and a few more hits. Really takes you out of your element and since the 1st few hits (the ones that it forced you to recast) do almost do damage.

So the combo went from weak, medium, strong, medium, strong repeat. Essentially 3 good hits at the end of every rotation (3rd auto with poison, cnd, back stab)

to

weak medium strong, medium, strong, weak wait OR weak medium, medium, strong
(it’s do double strike again for crap damage and wait a half sec for cnd and get better positioning or do double strike again for crap damage then wild strike for medium but lose out on a 1/4s between every cnd cast)

Doesn’t sound like much but all those extra out of place steps really kills our dps (by 15-20% when everything is landing) and just very clumsy feeling. It also makes it so our poison upkeep time changes from 80% to about 40% if you’re going for max dps.

If you’re rocking dual daggers you should be handling revealed as such:
Backstab → DS → WS → LS → DS → WS → CnD → Backstab → DS → ad nauseum

It’s a goofy rhythm, audibly, but once you commit it to muscle memory you’re set.
I really hope this rumor pans out to be legit and not just a very cruel hoax

jpnova.4572:

S/D it is then, however does this work with a Venom build and does the sword cleave with a venom use up 3 ticks or 1 tick of the venom. Otherwise what options are there for S/D. 30 in Critical strikes along with 25/15 or 20/20 in the bottom two trees is a possibility. Low healing but maximizing the utility of my dodges, might, endurance and caltrops.

1 charge of venom is consumed per hit, per target.
3 targets = 3 charges.

Honestly, if you like being a semi-redundant buff bot for your party, go Venom Share.
If you want to kill people quickly while still remaining hard as hell to kill:
0/ (could drop the 10pts in acrobatics and grab mug if you’d like)
30/ 3, 6, 11
30/ 4, 5, 11
10/ 6 (2 or 3 are also decent choices)
0/
Fleet Shadow in acrobatics makes positioning sooooooooo much easier and faster, hence- higher up-time on TS Daze locking with greater ease.
Just my two cents.

edit: Alternatively, there’s a few Bursty S/D builds floating around, Formi – Crystal Desert (I believe) posted a video of a pretty vicious build about a week, or so, ago.

1. Bait them into attacking.
2. Force a dodge-roll.
3. CC-spike ASAP as the dodge animation finishes.
(4a. Your spike downed him, stomp. GG.)
4b. It didn’t down him, but he had to blow a cd to escape.
5. Repeat step 1 through 3 until 4a is achieved.
6. Crack open a cold one and high-five yourself.

edit: spelling

Make good use of the 1.5s and you’ll see why.

/sticky request.
Just sayin’.

There’s quite a few variants floating around, iNaddict, most of which are pretty standard(ish) for someone familiar with the Thief.

Some of the builds I’ve used for S/D:
0/30/30/10/0 (CnD + Steal → TS → FS )
0/30/10/15/15 (IS → FS → recall / rinse+repeat)
10/20/30/10/0 (CnD + Steal → TS → FS )
10/30/0/0/30 (IS + Steal → (full AA chain) → recall)

I’d strongly suggest just diving into the set head-first, it’s a very strong and straight forward set.

Not to mention (unless they ninja-patched it since 4/4) the recall on #2 ignores the pathing restrictions normally associated with teleports.

Easiest example would be the Borderland “ruined fort” due north of the Champion’s Demense/Victor’s/Hero’s Lodge supply camp- while standing dead-centered on top of the archway above the stairs, pop IS without a target, run down and across the bridge and as you get to the gate of the SW tower pop recall- when I was testing it, it would recall me to the original location.

There’s plenty more, but I’m not going to rob you of the thrill of discovery. :P

Blind should stack in intensity, not duration.
Each attack removes one stack of Blind.

randomfightfan.4091:

Did they just drop you within 2 seconds? Did you just take 10k from a single backstab? If the answer is yes to any of these, then boy do I have the deal of you! It’s called TOUGHNESS!!! Toughness can be used by any class and is great for turning those 10k frowns into 6k laughs! You can wear toughness anywhere. It’s fashionable and dependable. And if you liked toughness, you’ll just LOVE what goes with it.

Introducing the always beautiful, the always pleasant, DODGING! Dodging is graceful and elegant. I have yet to see anyone not like dodging once they’ve really seen what she can do.

Are you saying to yourself 6k is still too high? No worries! INTRODUCING PROTECTION! This fine specimen is strong and stalwart and is always willing to be your knight in shining armour. With protection you turn that measly 6k into a weakly 4k in a moments notice. But wait! There’s more!

When it comes to your defences, Blocking is always ready to be your first, last, and everything in the middle’s way to stop anything from scratching up your pretty face.

You can buy any of our products individually but they also work great as a package set. Buy one or all today!

I read this in the voice of the announcer for ‘The Price Is Right’.
Childhood, redeemed.

@Daecollo
instead of ‘Last Refuge’ / ‘Vamp-anything’ try this:

Shadowed Assailant
Gain 3s of Protection whenever you are Revealed. (4s cooldown)

@Quxudais go D/P + SB for PvE.
Just keep your blinds up (#3 at 4 Initiative / #5 at 6 Initiative)
Use Heartseeker from the Smoke Field to gain Stealth -> Backstab.
Rinse, Repeat.

Dagger off-hand (for a direct-damage build) just really can’t compete when the mobs willingly stand in your smoke field.
edit: kitten that Dancing Dagger nerf.

So basically the same hit-and-run-like-hell glass Thief that’s been the norm for months?
K.

Elmuerto.9840:

I got called a noob heartseeking spammer today. Which was impressive with my sword, pistol and shortbow.

Dasorine.1964:

hidden killer is just chance no effect on the actual damage of the crit.

10k mug in spvp may be doable but would require a very specific set of circumstances as well as glass cannons both sides. Most likely frenzy involved somewhere also.

This.

IMO, P/P might be better than SB for the ‘ranged burst’ role, but it really feels utterly ineffective relative to it’s initiative costs.

Granted, I’m not presently aware of any math to back up that opinion, nor do I feel like running the numbers from work. LOL.

Nilgoow.1037:

I am pvp rank 72 and currently number 1, 4 and 9 on NA leaderboards (I have 3 accounts). P/P is probably the best.

Clearly, your trolling has improved since Badlands. :P

Daecollo.9578:

Karolis.4261:

As topic says. Inftract me, ban me, w/e. Remove this kittening trait.

Or replace it with something useful, like…

“Lowers Revealed by one second.”

+1, /signed, and agreed.

DAoC was fun, and that statement comes from a former RR10 Thane.
(LAGHAMMAHZ)

In all honesty though, with how much this community kittenes about the asymmetric nature of the classes in this game, imagine how they’d react to, what was it, 25 unique classes split unevenly into 3 distinct realms.

DAoC today = Developer Nightmare.
GW2 = Good enough for gov’ment work.

Besides, thinking about Bolt-ranged 60s Mess from a lifetapping, pet-charming, POM-chanting class with Single-charge BT, Ablatives AND AF buffs is making me sick.

NEED MOAR BOMB GROUPS PLZ.

Teamkiller.4315:

For instance, which is the easier target, the Gaurdian who just joined the fight and popped “Save Yourselves!” or, that Longbow ranger who has just over-extended the battle-line and just blew endurance avoiding stray aoe’s?
.

Well…when I ran save yourselves ikittenerg I would always get high stacks and almost every condition in the game. Such people are extremely easy targets, more so than the ranger IMO <_<

Well, granted, anecdotal evidence is what it is after all.

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Jinks.2057:

So basically you have a super secret solo build that you aint sharing

You post how you’re not affected……yet post a glass BS build to show this.

Ok.

Maybe next time when ebay v mag we’ll see your secret build….god I hope your not one of those PPers

Of course I post a noob-cannon build because it’s proving a point. The changes the that they are implementing to the Thief are pigeon-holing the viability of players who want more from the class than god mode every 45s. They first mention in the SoTG that they want to make changes to Stealth, and the in-combat access players have to it – and then in a complete cop-out they buff the duration of Revealed by 1s?
To add insult to injury, the Thief community is aflame with anger over the ‘25% DPS NERFZ’.
Had they addressed the currently gimmicky nature of Stealth, they would have then been forced to add real depth to the Thief as a class.

But hey, they apparently like Stealth the way it is, and they apparently want the Thief to have access to one of the lowest skill-cap burst rotations in the game. However, that’s Anet’s call and so be it. There’s a lot of potential to make a complete and enjoyable class with scaling levels of proficiency based on individual player skill with the mechanic of initiative management. Unfortunately, making it a DPS heavy spammer with horribly predictable combat patterns is just easier to balance and design.

An Ebay calling a Mag a zergling?
Really? Lol?

So everything you’ve posted up until this point has been in rebellion to this patch…..

Wow I dunno what to say to that except I dont believe it.

O and yes Mag is a zerg server now to say otherwise is denial.

Doesn’t matter if you do or not, really. My point is stated.

I’m not saying that Mag doesn’t have a zerg, but implying that server population is relative to or is indicative of individual player preferences/skill is not only asinine in the extreme, but borders on ignorance. To say otherwise denies reason.

Karolis.4261:

Aervius.2016:

iNaddict.8021:

Scootabuser.4915:

iNaddict.8021:

at the moment i just do another sec of #1 chain whilst positioning myself better for the CnD Backstab…

that way i dont waste any more initiative.

Easier said then done

Well if i can do it in.. you can too.. key is practice, CnD -> BS -> 4x #1 repeat.. get that ingrained in your head and you wont even need to pay attention anymore.

You don’t have to believe me, but as i said in other threads i can and will work around the extra second..

I have a hard time believing adjusting timing an additional second is really as complicated as some Thief players are making it out to be.

To be perfectly honest, if the additional second to revealed has really trashed the Thief as a class for some of you guys, then maybe you weren’t as good with the class as you imagined you were.

I’m personally more of a fan of Shortbow than I am of dual daggers, the latter set being used exclusively for a SoP/SU CS trait build burst. As such, the additional second to revealed was utterly inconsequential as I’ve learned how to escape without stealth.

Harass with SB.
Identify target (usually low-hp classes or classes that aren’t usually known for effective bunker builds, i.e. Target the weak.)
Flank with Shadowstep -> CnD -> Steal + AS + SS -> BS -> Shadow Recall -> WS to SB and CB the downed player as allies attempt to res.
Turns 1 downed player into 3 pretty easily and consistently.

Granted, this is all WvW-based experience.

Granted that u are running full glass cannon build, no balanced build ( speaking of gear and traits) will kill anyone in single burst, neither cluster bombs will be so effective, unless thats other full glass thief with no stun breaker… or upleveled lvl 6 newbie. So you are stuck for 4 seconds which is full aa chain and 1-2 more hits before you can stealth again. With removed culling now its more then enough time for everyone including their grandma to take a bus, come to battle spot and kill you.

And granted, it imbalanced the rhythm of combat for balanced Thief builds. I can only assume that Anet is pigeon-holing the Thief because they aren’t totally sure what they want to do with the class.

Every successive update people complain about the Zerker burst rotation, yet not a single Thief change implimented since release has done anything to truly affect it, adversely, the Balanced builds have been suffering successive damage nerf after damage nerf and now they go so far as to alter the fastest available time-scale of balanced Thief play.

IMO, it’s a pretty clear message to me that Anet doesn’t want effective balanced Thief builds. It would seem they want hard-counterable gimmicks. While I’m with you in saying that I hope this isn’t the case, the observable track record of “changes” would indicate otherwise.

Jinks.2057:

So basically you have a super secret solo build that you aint sharing

You post how you’re not affected……yet post a glass BS build to show this.

Ok.

Maybe next time when ebay v mag we’ll see your secret build….god I hope your not one of those PPers

Of course I post a noob-cannon build because it’s proving a point. The changes the that they are implementing to the Thief are pigeon-holing the viability of players who want more from the class than god mode every 45s. They first mention in the SoTG that they want to make changes to Stealth, and the in-combat access players have to it – and then in a complete cop-out they buff the duration of Revealed by 1s?
To add insult to injury, the Thief community is aflame with anger over the ‘25% DPS NERFZ’.
Had they addressed the currently gimmicky nature of Stealth, they would have then been forced to add real depth to the Thief as a class.

But hey, they apparently like Stealth the way it is, and they apparently want the Thief to have access to one of the lowest skill-cap burst rotations in the game. However, that’s Anet’s call and so be it. There’s a lot of potential to make a complete and enjoyable class with scaling levels of proficiency based on individual player skill with the mechanic of initiative management. Unfortunately, making it a DPS heavy spammer with horribly predictable combat patterns is just easier to balance and design.

An Ebay calling a Mag a zergling?
Really? Lol?

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Dasorine.1964:

basically just a group fight survivability nerf in pvp, in pve its across the board nerf to any build that attempted to utilize it for something.

Okay, so we can’t 1v10 as easily anymore.
You’re delusional if you think that was balanced, as is.

We could never 1v10 easily. You would know that if you ran without the zerg.

So which weapons you run with?

What is your obsession with zerging and why are you so convinced I run with one?

And yes, we could 1vX (as 10 was a purposeful exaggeration, 5-6 was pretty easy) easily. However, you’d know that if you weren’t zerging.

1v5 is very consistent with 4/5 of those players being really bad.

So please answer my question….what weapons?

I favor DD + SB for solo roaming, using DP + SD when running with the 5 man.

So you run a 25/30/0/0/15 build. You smash a person and let your team finish for you?

You use SB to run and fight on the fringe….this is viable tactic in zerg surfing and is how beginner thieves learn to play. You did not take on multiples with this build…well competent multiples.

What’s even funnier is your group build is even more fail. The SB you so extol over isnt present. You opt to go with the absolute best weapon set up for solo roamers (pre patch). Where is you’re spamming blast finisher to stack might/heals? Where is your poison field to reduce healing?

I post at you because ive fought mag on many different occasions and ill leave it at that.

Your summation would be accurate, if I were a beginner Thief.

I post a 25/30/0/0/15 build, but I have one which I will not post (as someone as clearly versed in Thief weapon sets will be able to logically deduce) which is used more frequently.

I use shortbow purely for escapes / defeating players from range after downing. I use a lot of Zerker/Valk as a quick search of my recent forum posts would allow anyone to see quite plainly. Most classes that will utilitize immobilize will do so to facilitate ease of geographically specific attacks or melee. Either way, IA allows me to escape most (i.e. relatively short duration) immobilize nukes.

I take Dual Daggers because cheaper access to Stealth + Condi removal, and alternatively, cheaper access to stronger burst rotations make it a clear choice over D/P (which is admittedly better at locking down much more skilled opponents and at chasing/gap closing). Shortbow is also taking to compensate for the lack of mobility that D/D has, relative to D/P.

Fringe harassing a zerg? In bersker gear? I play on Magumma, sure, but hump the zerg I do not do. Roll with a 5 man? Of course, whenever I’m online the same time my guild is. Roll solo? Of course. I work nights, so being on at the same timeslot my guild is on is rather difficult. Gotta’ get that kill qouta somehow.

I don’t use SB in group play simply because I choose a different roll for group sets.
Such a ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude should see it rather plainly, I’m suprised you’re having so much trouble. No, I mean really suprised.

iNaddict.8021:

Auesis.7301:

iNaddict.8021:

Auesis.7301:

darkace.8925:

Rizzy.8293:

nope, not much changed just a drop in DPS for a DPS class that is out DPSed by other classes.

I heard overreaction was all the rage these days, but some of you guys have gone WAY off the reservation.

Well, he’s right. Just going with simple logic, it is impossible to do as much damage in a PvE environment if you’re using any build that has stealth attacks eg. Backstab built in somewhere. The opportunity to use it has been stretched by a second. Hence, lower damage potential. The numbers, I leave to someone else.

That is correct.. Thereotical top dps is now lowered by the decreased Backstab frequency..

However that thereotical top dps requires you to stand still from start to end… and receive no dmg. (so you dont have to go on the defensive..)..

i cant think of anything in game that allows you to do that.. at the moment..

You don’t have to stand still to attack and use skills. Unless I understood you wrong.

I would test the difference in raw DPS for myself on sPvP dummies, but my GPU is fried and I can’t get in-game right now. If someone else did it, that would be helpful.

What i mean to get the top thereotical dps is you need to time your CnD BS exactly after the revealed debuff wears off.. 3 seconds (pre patch).. but in 3 secs you have to get back onto the mob. that is made easier if you stand and dont have to move. I cant think of a boss which will let you off chains after chains of exact 3 second CnD -> BS without some sort of splash dmg on your part where you have to heal and go on defensive or you have to move because of repositioning.

Of course its 4 sec now after patch..

This is effectively what I’m seeing this as. Well said, iNaddict.
Top Theoretical DPS means a lot on paper, much less in pratical use.

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Dasorine.1964:

basically just a group fight survivability nerf in pvp, in pve its across the board nerf to any build that attempted to utilize it for something.

Okay, so we can’t 1v10 as easily anymore.
You’re delusional if you think that was balanced, as is.

We could never 1v10 easily. You would know that if you ran without the zerg.

So which weapons you run with?

What is your obsession with zerging and why are you so convinced I run with one?

And yes, we could 1vX (as 10 was a purposeful exaggeration, 5-6 was pretty easy) easily. However, you’d know that if you weren’t zerging.

1v5 is very consistent with 4/5 of those players being really bad.

So please answer my question….what weapons?

I favor DD + SB for solo roaming, using DP + SD when running with the 5 man.

Jinks.2057:

Aervius.2016:

Dasorine.1964:

basically just a group fight survivability nerf in pvp, in pve its across the board nerf to any build that attempted to utilize it for something.

Okay, so we can’t 1v10 as easily anymore.
You’re delusional if you think that was balanced, as is.

We could never 1v10 easily. You would know that if you ran without the zerg.

So which weapons you run with?

What is your obsession with zerging and why are you so convinced I run with one?

And yes, we could 1vX (as 10 was a purposeful exaggeration, 5-6 was pretty easy) easily. However, you’d know that if you weren’t zerging.

Dasorine.1964:

… when did I ever say anything along those lines? certainly not in the quote you have there, so… yeah whats crawled up your kitten and died?

Maybe I misinterpretted your original comment, my mistake. However, my response was lacking in that I didn’t specify that I would argue that it didn’t actually affect the overall playstyle of the Thief as gratuitously as many forum warriors are boasting it has.

1. Implying that a Thief needs Stealth to deal damage is completely ignoring our substainal Out-Of-Stealth damage. Heartseeker, Flanking Strike, Shadow Shot, Clusterbomb, etc.

2. Implying that a Thief needs Stealth to be survivable completely ignores our classes access to mobility / IMS boons/passives that allow us to be highly mobile. After all, you can’t hit what you can’t catch.

3. Implying that adding an additional second to Revealed has so severly impacted our DPS would be correct if a raw, anecdotal figure like “damage per second” actually had a basis for existence in a game that largely plays like any Third-person action game. With stats. Don’t get me wrong, the math is important, but it surely isn’t everything in this game.

The concern I have in light of all of the complaints is that the Thief community is largely players who abuse a specific, seemingly “game-breaking” mechanic ad nauseum while completely ignoring everything else their class is capable of.
Learn.
Adapt.
Overcome.

Good Thief players will get it, bad ones will reroll as a Mesmer.

Dasorine.1964:

basically just a group fight survivability nerf in pvp, in pve its across the board nerf to any build that attempted to utilize it for something.

Okay, so we can’t 1v10 as easily anymore.
You’re delusional if you think that was balanced, as is.

Rob.1039:

It didn’t change much for me. On my P/D cond dmg build can feel the difference, but I switch to D/D often, so it’s ok (caltrops nerf hurts more). On my power/crit build almost no change at all, ppl dropping down as quick as they did before.

Granted, builds that emphasized the literal abuse of Stealth were clearly effected, but I’m sure that you’ll agree that simply means choosing targets more carefully is all the compensation that’s really necessary.

Gone are the “I’m going to 1vEverythingRegardlessOfWhatAddsToTheFight”.

I’m suprised that many people just picked up the Thief just because of that capability. Now that it’s gone, look at the bads that are literally quitting over the change. LOL. It’s mind-bogging really, considering that I (and apparently the entire community) was expecting 3s of Revealed everytime I left Stealth, period. IMHO, the change was a joke compared to the alternative.

Jinks.2057:

iNaddict.8021:

Rizzy.8293:

nope, not much changed just a drop in DPS for a DPS class that is out DPSed by other classes.

i dont think so.. SB is pretty awesome in a aoe situation and D/D still very very good for the time it takes to kill a mob.

SB is only good with shotgun clusters and hasted trickshots.

1 of those sucked a nerf down this patch

Saying that’s all SB is good for is making your noob show a little. I get that you’re generalizing purposefully, but that hardly covers what is possible with SB, especially in WvW.

So it trashed the current timescale / rhythm you had for your Shadowtroll Thief.
It’s not like that’s the only way to play the Thief.
Sure it was fun, granted, but once you adjust to your new timescale (hint: 4/4) you’ll find that the change wasn’t the class breaking change you think it is.
Honestly, the problems many Thieves are experiencing with their old build is the lack of the culling safety net they used to enjoy.

All things considered, there’s reason to believe that with the culling changes they may revert the Revealed change all together. (That might be wishful thinking, however.)

Quickness skills should have their negative side-effects removed in light of the changed AS bonus. Maybe even shorter cooldowns.
Just sayin’.

Beyond that, my build didn’t really change.
I’m a horrible bad and a scrub so I roll a Valk/Zerker SB + D/D Burst Thief.
Solo-roaming / Group Scout / Skirmisher
I’ve adjusted playstyles to suit the fact that I’m rocking base toughness by focusing more on slamming one person hard and escaping back to ranged to finish off the downed player + buddies that come to help.

Can’t say much about sPvP, WvW is where it’s at imo.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.1|8.1g.h2.8.1g.h17|5.1g.h17|1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7.1p.a7|2s.d13.2t.d13.3t.d19.2s.d13.3s.d19.2s.d13|p39.u28b.0.0.f5|39.1|57.5e.5h.5c.5u|e

With how much I use Shortbow, I’d be convinced that I’m really a Ranger with awesome melee. Besides, I’ve grown tired of Anet nerfing all the non-gimmick builds for our favorite profession, so I’ve just slotted myself into the mold they seem to want us all in anyway.

Like the title says, how many of you are actually crying because of the Revealed change? Really?

Didn’t change much, imo.

Geiir.7603:

Welcome to the ranks of the most deceptive and sneaky profession in the game! I can start by telling you that this is a profession that will have no problem killing a lone rider in WvW. We are experts at hunting them down and slaying them. But make no mistake, mastering the thief and knowing when to stay in the fight and when it’s time to get out or not even engage a fight is one of the most important things we do. Easy single target killer, but a very hard profession to truly master.

Weaknesses:

• lowest health pool in the game (about 10k at lvl 80 with no traits or gear)
• low toughness, which means that you will take a lot of damage from all attacks
• not the best straight on damage
• very easy to get killed if cc’d and you’re out of stun breakers
• little condition removal
• conditions can be deadly because of little health
• not much you can do in a siege except from running supplies
• lacking a 1200 ranged weapon

Strengths:

• stealth
• very good tools for survivability
• some nice team support if specced for it
• can perma blind with pistol off hand
• very good roaming abilities
• very easy to enter and leave fights at your own will
• high attack speed
• very high mobility
• very fun to play!
• hands down best 1v1 class in the game

You can’t really say that all thieves are having trouble with one profession. We have problems with builds, and which builds we have a hard time dealing with depends on what build we are using. I’m playing a survival thief d/p and I’m finding my self in some deep kitten if I get too many stacks of bleed or confusion. Good condition necros are dangerous in general and soldier guardians are a pain in the kitten for me. I’m not specced for killing things fast, I’m there to apply pressure and force you to play defensively or freak out ^^

You just have to check the forums and different builds available. Do you want to kill players in two seconds or do you want to be in the middle of the battle swinging your sword? Do you want to play a team support role or do you like the idea of bleeding your enemies dry? Check out Lowell’s thief guide, although it is a bit out of date, it’s still very good to get the feel of what the thief is about and get a taste of some builds.

I’m using my phone to write this, so I didn’t bother to put in some links (take way too much time :p ). Let me know if you need more help, and best of luck with your new awesome profession!

This guy nailed it.
Case in point, the build of your Thief is factually of little relevance, how you play your Thief will have a much larger influence on your actual success.

It would appear, observing what tools the Thief has at it’s disposal, that regardless of gear/trait build the Thief was designed with a Skirmisher/Ambusher style of warfighter in mind. That being said, observing the flow of the battle will result in much larger success than just assuming you can own everything with the burst available to our class.

For instance, which is the easier target, the Gaurdian who just joined the fight and popped “Save Yourselves!” or, that Longbow ranger who has just over-extended the battle-line and just blew endurance avoiding stray aoe’s?

As always, good hunting.

iNaddict.8021:

Scootabuser.4915:

iNaddict.8021:

at the moment i just do another sec of #1 chain whilst positioning myself better for the CnD Backstab…

that way i dont waste any more initiative.

Easier said then done

Well if i can do it in.. you can too.. key is practice, CnD -> BS -> 4x #1 repeat.. get that ingrained in your head and you wont even need to pay attention anymore.

You don’t have to believe me, but as i said in other threads i can and will work around the extra second..

I have a hard time believing adjusting timing an additional second is really as complicated as some Thief players are making it out to be.

To be perfectly honest, if the additional second to revealed has really trashed the Thief as a class for some of you guys, then maybe you weren’t as good with the class as you imagined you were.

I’m personally more of a fan of Shortbow than I am of dual daggers, the latter set being used exclusively for a SoP/SU CS trait build burst. As such, the additional second to revealed was utterly inconsequential as I’ve learned how to escape without stealth.

Harass with SB.
Identify target (usually low-hp classes or classes that aren’t usually known for effective bunker builds, i.e. Target the weak.)
Flank with Shadowstep → CnD → Steal + AS + SS → BS → Shadow Recall → WS to SB and CB the downed player as allies attempt to res.
Turns 1 downed player into 3 pretty easily and consistently.

Granted, this is all WvW-based experience.

Hidden Killer wasn’t working for me either.
Switched out to Executioner – don’t miss it much anyway.

While I do hate the odd backstab that doesn’t crit, there’s something so much more satisfying about the abundance of 12k-14k backstabs I see with Executioner.

That and the patch broke Hidden Killer.
Just sayin’.

Kontrolle.3514:

Aervius.2016:

laquito.5269:

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

I’ve been saying this since release.
They can’t see the stomp coming, so they think it’s overpowered- yet completely kittening ignore stomps’ (stability/mist/elixir s) that you CAN’T stop. Period.

Yeah. Nurf t3h Theivf plz Anetz.

So you really CANT stop invul/stealthstomps? Really?
There is a tool to do so. Guess what it is. Its actually pretty funny that you dont know it.

I never said you couldn’t stop Stealth Stomps, it’s actually pretty funny that you can’t read.

Please educate me how you prevent/interrupt an Invulnerability Finisher when no control effect / attack will land on invulnerable (Mist Form)/evading (Elixir S) targets.

Go ahead. I’ll wait, and while I do I’ll politely point out that 99.832% of all statistics used in conversation are made up on the spot.

I’m convinced by now that the only bad D/D Ele’s are mongoloid clickers.
That said, most of the people ITT are probably playing the class to an efficient/competent level.
Those Elementalist who are crying that D/D is hard or doesn’t provide adequate -variable- for the cost of being -variable- just need to reroll as a Ranger and auto-attack everything to death, ad nauseum.

Arakkne reminds me of Arrakis, so instant win in my book (lol). 9/10

Kolt (Forty-five), the Asura Thief.

Noxmani.6904:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was running D/P before but didn’t like it much, might have to get a nice sword for mainhand.

Dagger isn’t really all that great for open-world PvE, Sword outshines it imo (AoE’s FTW) – however in PvP/WvW it’s a different story.
On the subject of PvE Pistol off-hand is just plain easy-mode. Until you start fighting Dredge/generic Champions.

Constantine.7812:

to me thief = legalized cheating class. i have nothing against other classes (maybe million clones mesmers and not killable eles, but i could live with that.) but thieves are really a bad joke from anet atm. cant believe they didnt do anything about it yet. im not even explaining more cuz we all know what im talking about. its just ppl playing thieves pretending everything is ok.

Either you are a “NewBlood”, or you’re trolling.

Don’t ever put a movement skill in an auto-attack chain.
Specifically, a gap-opener on a medium/short ranged weapon set.
The rear leap could put your attack out of range if your target is moving away from you.

Daecollo, how about this as an alternative:

1. - Vital Shot (1/4s animation)
2. - Body Shot – 450 range rear directional leap (like disabling shot on SB), make this skill a Leap Finisher (P/P doesn’t need another Projectile Finisher, after all.)
3. - Unload – Each shot has a base 20% chance to bounce to a nearby target. 1 bounce. (50% Chance with Ricochet)
4. - Headshot – In addition this skill should apply 1x Confusion (3s) in a small AoE (130) around the target. (Thematically explained as “You just watched someone get shot in the face. You’re a tad shook up.”)
5. - Black Powder – Add the Leap Finisher to Body Shot and this doesn’t need a single change. P/P needs access to Stealth. Granted, make it as expensive as the Dagger Pistol build. 9 Initiative.