Guild Wars 2

lLobo.7960:

Argol Vazin.3061:

The way it would be set up is that you can freely swap attunments mid rotation with no attunment cooldown and it would be a playstyle all around the built skill combinations with added functionality (and earth field) to encourage mixing and mashing what element you use. This could be done by having a skill effect that keeps the element you last used a skill in as the active element to create different kinds of fields/finishers Example. a fire skill then water skill creates smoke, etc

It could be made to have an internal combo system that grants boons/effects. if having access to a bunch of fields and finishers on one class is too OP.

You basically described the current arcane ele gameplay.
You swap attunements fast to keep up boons (fury, might, etc) and weave the attunements to use combo fields and finishers (mostly blasting water or fire fields or jumping through ice or fire fields for auras). Add that the bonus on certain attunements (such as dmg in fire, crit in air, regen in water) based on traits and that’s mostly what you have today.

The only thing your proposal add to this current gameplay is a transformation that doesn’t seem to change much.

well, the main idea is to add a melee focused Elementalist that has a unique system that removes the need of having to make entirely new skills for each attunement. if you have ever played SMITE, more specifically Hel. She has 2 “stances” but the animations and use of the skills are the same in each stance. just different in function. So a projectile that hurts or heals. an aoe that does damage and strips defense or an aoe heal and knockback (if I recall) and a targeted Stun or CC cleanse.

and the best way to make a viable melee ele is to make up their low defense with buffs, and instead of just having a skill you activate, I like the idea of having those buffs earned through an inbuilt combo system. there could be another way to do this.

So the core idea will be using a combo system to give that martial arts feel. and by spending enough time in that attunement you then get an appropriate buff.
Fire: Damage increase,
Water: Regen per hit
Air: Alacrity style buff localized within ele stance skills
Earth: Toughness.

Here is an amended idea

So each attunement will have
1. Resource Generator
2. Melee AoE/Cleave
3. Projectile
4. Defense/self-based skill
5. flashy finisher

with these 5 basic templates, each attunement can be set up to reflect that element.

an example. the defense skill on fire could be a retaliation effect.
the earth defensive could be a blocking stance that grants stab
the water could be an evade and heal stance
Air, would be a projectile reflect

EDIT: Actually I think using the warrior’s adrenaline system might be a good way of doing it. so you build up a bar. activate a finisher and get a buff. but this “adrenaline” bar resets on attunment swap. so you could get a minor buff from a lvl 1 finisher. or build up to a level 3. again. like warriors

Weapon: none (maybe sword)
Playstyle: melee
Concept: I am the avatar

The Elemental Adept is about focusing the elements through your body, letting your inner self be one with the elements, to truly understand them as one would understand their own body…and beating the crap out of enemies with fists of fire and feet of lightning.

The main feature would be an F5 skill. activating it will switch your character into elemental stance (or style to be less confusing) weapons are stowed as your body becomes the weapon (Keep weapon stats/benefits)
Across all attunments, skills will be exactly the same. just modified by element becomes a finisher.. The moves will largely be the same across each attunment but modified by the element. Because the skills will be designed around skill combinations. so youare basically setting up a field and blasting

The way it would be set up is that you can freely swap attunments mid rotation with no attunment cooldown and it would be a playstyle all around the built skill combinations with added functionality (and earth field) to encourage mixing and mashing what element you use. This could be done by having a skill effect that keeps the element you last used a skill in as the active element to create different kinds of fields/finishers Example. a fire skill then water skill creates smoke, etc

It could be made to have an internal combo system that grants boons/effects. if having access to a bunch of fields and finishers on one class is too OP.

skill 1 generates an elemental resource. 2-4 interact with those resources granting boons, inflicting conditions, creating fields, generating more resources. 5 trades in the resources for a finishing move with strength/effects based on consumed resources.

they could totally rip of revelation online. the sword mage already plays like ele and actually does the elemental atunment much better in a way that doesn’t give the class mass amounts of abilities. simply changing effects of some spells based on atunment (elemental blast does a ground AoE DOT in lightning, slows in ice, high damage in fire)

I want the superior version of the bloodstone pack. aka lightning. flying around with lightning is so much better when it isn’t red

title sums it up. maybe Anet should play those games to learn how to make challenging but fair (most the time) boss fights. I mean this is like if you had to fight ludwig and living failures at the same time.

Hell I would take 2 ancient dragons over this

(this is mostly joke, because I need a little levity after beating my head against the wall that is confessor’s end)

Jhoul.6923:

To be honest… Not everything has to be 11111111.

I liked that it was hard since we are not talking about a common mob (this was the last boss of the story).

Yes, it was annoying and the Jade bow made it harder. But the check point is right there and you don’t lose progression.

I’m an Ele, and I have the Raid meta build (aka, no Stability outside of earth OL) I died… a LOT… and that is ok.

a good designed boss battle would be something you could beat without relying on checkpoint. battle of attrition via constant checkpoint is not and never should be the go to method for dealing with a boss.

Too add. Raid bosses are actually fun yet difficult. they should carry the design mentality of raid bosses into solo content.
There is also an issue for someone like me who is Australian and as such, has Australian net. no matter how fast I can react. ping eats any chance. so bosses should be designed with this in mind since not everyone has super fast internet.

hate to say it, but people that complete raids are likely already in raid guilds. I want to start raiding but I can’t because every kitten guild that raids requires you to have done raiding. it’s a kitten catch 22.

now we just need more high heels of various varieties across all weight classes. the only really good pair you get as a single skin is the aura light shoes and even then they are only what, 1-2 inch heels at best. there are some ankle boots with heels, but mostly heels either come from outfits or the insane tease that is experimental envoy armour that I will never be able to get cause I don’t have a raid group.

So I have entered ranked to try and get ascended gear. I am a lvl 1 bronze, so really, nothing special. I have over 100 games played in pvp. but most of that was from before HoT and just in unranked.

Now that I am trying to play serious the flaws of PVP come to light.

Hard to read confusion
I play Smite, I play Overwatch and I play paladins. For the sack of comparison I will stick with smite since the other 2 are FPS.
In Smite, thanks to a slower pace in terms of both movement and skill usage. plus the closer perspective. it is much more clear what is happening. while I don’t expect this from GW2, what I should expect is that characters have voice lines that make what they are casting noticeable. Hearing Scylla shout sic em, follow by the gnashing and barking of her wolves, you know she just used her skill 1 and can react.
while this isn’t always the case. for the most part, you learn the unique sounds, like the cracking of Bastet’s whip, and the yowling of her pounce. A lot of sounds in GW2 jumble together.

Of course I understand part of the reason Smite has casting voicelines goes with the fact that it is a skill shot based game. where GW2 is targeting based so hearing the casting might not save you anyway cause it will home in. but hey, thats what dodge and blocks are for.

Another contributing factor to the chaos is not knowing who you are fighting at a glance. GW2 lacks on glance identification, there needs to be some kind of floating icon above their head that displays their class.

Bad mini map.
The mini map needs to be a simple layout map instead of a detailed one. and I would probably opt for simple dots instead of the class icon. because when there are multiple characters in the same spot. that class icon is unhelpful since that point on the map is a jumble of icons

lack of Callouts
A voice line system would go a long way towards facilitating teamwork. Callouts like “Attack Home, Attack middle, Attack Far, Defend the base, Attack the enemy lord, Attack Svanir, Attack the Chieftain, Help, Retreat, Enemy incoming”

2 ideas I like

1 is from Smite, Hel
Hel has 2 modes, light and dark. the skills and animations are the same, but different effects.

example.

1. light: fires a projectile that then returns HP to hel
   Dark: it explodes doing AoE damage
2. light: AOE CC Cleanse and makes CC immune for a few sec
   Dark: AOE Slow and Magic protection strip
3. Light: AOE Heal
   Dark: AOE Damage

This could easilly be done to attunments

The other idea is froma newer MMO and does kind of the same thing. You have elemental skills from fire balls and ice fields. but when you use those skills while you are in the same element, it has stronger affects.

The fire bolt normally is just that, but when switched to fire, it adds burn.
The ice field slows. but when used while in ice attunment, it freezes

Then there are skills that completely change from element to element

yeah, it is pretty ugly. also I am sick of outfits. we need more vanity armour. especially ones with heels. I want the wedding dress heels with my ele’s normal light armour.

all in all still a doomed elite spec that can not be fixed. It was dead on arrival the moment you tried to make it complete for D/D D/F. Overloads are still not worth it. You have added a trait that is a must therefore it isn’t even a choice, to run without harmonious conduit would be to shoot yourself in the foot.

The design of the tempest is the core issue and can only be fixed by scrapping it and rebuilding with a new role and theme

so. what parts of Base ele do you think are going to be removed in order to be added back as the next elite spec?

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Krysard.1364:

Argol Vazin.3061:

now the actual problem is, People that say they like the tempest do not have a clear understanding of what is actually important to balance and mechanics. They are wowed by flashy effects or success in pick up groups and basic PvE where even the most unviable builds can work.

Well, its nice to see you everywhere saying that everybody that disagrees with you is wrong cause kitten, Tempest with a few tewaks is a solid spec, and you can do some awesome builds with. Maybe if you could argue your thoughts people will understand which is the problem with tempest

Well hey, people can play Dan Hibiki in street fighter and have fun with him, enjoy success against casual players as well. doesn’t stop him from being the worst character in the game from a mechanical standpoint. Tempest is Dan Hibiki

Not only can you NOT compare a fighting game to an MMO, but also, people don’t have to buy a full-price expension pack to play Dan Hibiki.

wow congrats on missing the point. that is some serious ninja dodging skills to miss that point

The point. You can certainly have fun with something that is mechanically bad. doesn’t stop it from being mechanically bad.

Krysard.1364:

Argol Vazin.3061:

now the actual problem is, People that say they like the tempest do not have a clear understanding of what is actually important to balance and mechanics. They are wowed by flashy effects or success in pick up groups and basic PvE where even the most unviable builds can work.

Well, its nice to see you everywhere saying that everybody that disagrees with you is wrong cause kitten, Tempest with a few tewaks is a solid spec, and you can do some awesome builds with. Maybe if you could argue your thoughts people will understand which is the problem with tempest

Well hey, people can play Dan Hibiki in street fighter and have fun with him, enjoy success against casual players as well. doesn’t stop him from being the worst character in the game from a mechanical standpoint. Tempest is Dan Hibiki

now the actual problem is, People that say they like the tempest do not have a clear understanding of what is actually important to balance and mechanics. They are wowed by flashy effects or success in pick up groups and basic PvE where even the most unviable builds can work.

Aeolus.3615:

I dont play ele nor own HoT, i only have information by watching streammers and im not happy how this classes are being designed, they are not bringing anything new to the game, just some more of the same with another name….

Nerf cele d/d performance(for a more balanced fight) and make overload a big boost skill similar how death shrowd works, but on ele while overboosting the selected element while is not atuned to other, it is like ele dd would loose that gimmick build but would win a very good skill, i would not mind if overload becomes a bit OP, it is their elemental elite specialization after all…

For what ic on some stream tempest doesn’t had anything new nor from previous gw1 gameplays into gw2.

Are these new elite weapon/specs designed to work only on HoT pve, and barelly usable on the rest of the game???

if you don’t play ele then certainly don’t suggest anything to do with nerfing. you have no basis of your own to share a factual opinion

Krysard.1364:

I still think Tempest is an awesome spec, improving ele variety, and totally worth to take :p

Not sure if serious

If so….you clearly have no understanding of gameplay and mechanics

if not… uhh…good for you?

Ohoni.6057:

A point that should be brought up a bit more often actually. Tempest implies storms, but currently the only “storminess” is the fire overload, and we all know how much overloads suck.

/sigh.

“It’s a metaphor.”

do not go there. That is incredibly stupid.

Chronomancer Chrono (Time) Mancer (Manipulation) thats what they do
Beserker Is a very fitting name
Daredevil, could also use acrobat but it suits
Herald: Could also have been oracle, but it is themed around A prophet, so herald is a fitting name
Reaper: A melee focused necro with an actual reaper form. can;t get any more fitting then that.

Tempest has nothing to do with storms. the teaser image and the worhorn alone should be evident that Tempest is supposed to be storm based. but it isn’t. you have no defense to these facts.

Ganathar.4956:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all!
Thanks for your continued feedback on the Tempest. If possible, let’s compile all feedback into this thread.
We’re iterating in quite a few areas for this specialization, including Rebound. Here’s the description of the latest implementation we’ve been testing over the last few days:
“Shout and infuse your allies with arcane energy. Allies who would take lethal damage while this is active ignore the deathblow and are healed instead. If the effect expires naturally, grant an aura based on your current attunement.”

Another small change we was due to the case that warhorn was missing an aura. As such (in our test iteration), Magnetic Aura now belongs to Sand Squall, in addition to its other properties. Looking forward to your constructive feedback from this BWE.

-Karl

this still doesn’t address the lack of “new role” we were promised.

The new role is being a buffbot for raids and maybe WvW if survivabilty is addressed. It is true that the ele can already do support, but it seems to me that the tempest is supposed to take it a step further and make you a pure support character. The particular change that we got to rebound makes it kind of obvious.

I’m not really thrilled about such a role but it is new in a way. Pure support that’s viable doesn’t really exist in GW2 atm. The spec might need a few more support options that are unavailable to base ele to make it more unique though. I liked Azel’s idea of giving tempest a unique aura and rebound is an obvious way to give access to it.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem that this spec can be made useful for PvP and open world PvE. Such a heavy support focus is a major hindrance in these modes imo.

Edit: As for fractals, they are a wildcard. We will have to wait and see what kind of rules high level fractals have before we can determine if pure support has a use.

the problem is, within elite specs they also have the herald. So tempest has to compete with elementalist base which offers better DPS and herald which has greater durability.

while I haven’t played herald enough to be certain. It does seem at a first glance to be better then tempest. but that could be coloured by my dislike for tempest and the newness of herald thus my lack of knowledge about that class.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all!
Thanks for your continued feedback on the Tempest. If possible, let’s compile all feedback into this thread.
We’re iterating in quite a few areas for this specialization, including Rebound. Here’s the description of the latest implementation we’ve been testing over the last few days:
“Shout and infuse your allies with arcane energy. Allies who would take lethal damage while this is active ignore the deathblow and are healed instead. If the effect expires naturally, grant an aura based on your current attunement.”

Another small change we was due to the case that warhorn was missing an aura. As such (in our test iteration), Magnetic Aura now belongs to Sand Squall, in addition to its other properties. Looking forward to your constructive feedback from this BWE.

-Karl

this still doesn’t address the lack of “new role” we were promised.

Drazerg.8956:

I think Overloading Attunements should not hinder your Attunement cooldown at all, here is how I think they could fix it in my opinion.

- You must stay in your attunment for 7s before overloading.
- Overloading Attunements does not increase cooldown of attunements.

- And finally the trash that is REBOUND, it should instead be called “Maelstrom!” and the skill would activate your Attunement Overload without waiting the 7 seconds, but it would retain the 3/4s cast time and possibly higher CD.
So ultimately the elite would still not be great like the other Ele elites, however it wouldn’t be useless and would see more use

wrong name. Maelstrom is a violent whirlpool.

Core concept: The elemental adept has used the elements to hone their body to fighting perfection, channeling their power through blows with hands and feet.

Weapon: Cestus Cestus is a two handed weapon as a martial artist treats their body as a single weapon

Inspirations: Avatar, FFXIV Pugilist/Monk, Jade Dynasty, classic asian martial arts movies

Mechanic: Burst Aura and Combo skills
As you use weapon skill you fill up the burst bar. once full, you can activate it to gain a Burst Aura
Burst Auras persist for their duration when swapping attunments
Fire: your burning spirit materializes as an aura of flame increasing damage of attacks Foes suffer retaliation and burn when they attack. also acts as mobile fire field that ticks damage on foes in it.
Water a cold mist surrounds you, reducing incoming damage, chilling foes within the effect. acts as a mobile water field, healing allies in the effect
Air: the air becomes electrified around you dazing attackers and granting swiftness and fury. acts as mobile lightning field
Earth: Rocks form around you, granting protection and reflects projectiles (maybe a 33% chance)

I am not too good coming up with weapon skills so hopefully i can get suggestions for these.

Combo skills: unlike normal weapon skills, combo skills have no cool down, instead they can only be used as part of a combo based on what combo style you are in

Cestus skills
Fire

1. Burning hands (can be used in Imp style) a continuous assault of aggressive punches and kicks (activates salamander style)
2. Salamanders lashing tongue: (Can be used in salamander style) A quick kick that inflicts burning (activates Dragon style)
3. Ascending Dragon Punch (Can only be used in Dragon style) Uppercut your foes, knocking them back (Activates Imp style)
4. Sweeping phoenix tail (can only be used in Salamander style) Perform a leg sweep extended by kicking up flames, forms a wall of fire in front of you (activates Dragon style)
5. Flaming wheel kick (can only be used in Dragon Style) leap forward in a flip kick. creating a blast of fire where you land, leap finisher (activates imp style)

Water

1. flowing river whip: A fighting style that uses water to whip foes

Air

1. Silverwing Strikes: A Tengu martial arts that uses swipes based on claws/talons

Earth

1. Crushing Boulder fists: A slow but powerful style inspired by earth elementals

I am not the best at coming up with utilities and traits. I am not too balance minded so I am worried I would make them too weak or too powerful

utilities: Stances
Rock Dog Stance: Gain stability, Protection and stun break
Elite: Elemental Trance: Enter a Zen like state, evading attacks before counter attacking with a powerful move dependent on current element

Traits
Grandmaster – Dual Aura mastery: you are able to have 2 burst Auras active
Grandmaster – Powerful spirit: Burst Auras last longer

moony.5780:

Argol Vazin.3061:

moony.5780:

I agree with OP.
Its soo bad that the ele specialisation is just a better version of an excisting build. It brings completly new gameplay for me. In pve its again just a brainless mighstacker. It is fixing the problem elementalists have…that they need to switch the element every 2 seconds in oder to be good…and also makes it not a must to blast any firefield to give allies might…but to be honest..it will just be it again….to be most effective again brainless mightstacking is needed and switching the element every 2-3 seconds…maybe we will wait like 5-10 seconds 1 time to make that fireoverload..but thats it.

As for pvp..i didnt try it out yet..but it looks like it will be a bit stronger than the DD cele ele.

for me i think its so sad that ele have a very limited playstyle there r just 3 acceptable builds for pvp. and for pve anything other than the mightstacker makes no sense.

Would be nice to choose only 2 Elements but make them much stronger and better.

well all in all i think tempest is a nice try to solve the elementalists problem..but i guess it dont solve it.

(3 years experience in ele as main )

this percieved “problem” is not a problem. it is how the ele is supposed to play. that is why we have no weapon swap and high CD, an a bunch of traits all about switching attunments.

As for better…are you high? have you even played tempest? it is weaker in everyway and doesn’t synergise.

i dont get the part of me to take drugs (try not to insult everyone whos not with ur opinion)…..but…y i played the tempest and for me the mighstack and boonshare combo is now much stronger on ele..thats a fakt (with warhorn and firetrait)

bcs it is the way it is suppost to play it is a problem..
and what i mean by problem is..that elementalist got only 1 playstyle..so swap elements like crazy and the tempest just support this ..and this is for me a problem..i cant imagine playing this class even 2 years more if it stays like this (and this is already the class i enjoy the most).
The thief gets a tottaly new playstyle. also the mesmer….but ele just get the same playstyle as before.

saying that someone is high is not an insult. If i should insult you for anything it is your spelling.

The issue, trying to make a playstyle about staying in 1 attunment is just bad. because it doesn’t mix with our high cool downs. you say that might stack is stronger. it isn’t. because you are losing effectivness by sticking to 1 attunement.

The chronomancer compliments the mesmer style, it doesn’t go against it. and that is the key difference. It doesn’t matter if you hate it, attunment swapping is core to the ele. trying to change that would have to be done in an intelligent way that doesn’t conflict with everything else the ele does.

If you want to play a melee support, switch to herald. I am sure you would have fun since it is full of easy to use passives that look to be a rather mindless playstyle. you don’t have to think about what element to switch into and what skills to use for the situation while maintaining and effective rotation.

moony.5780:

I agree with OP.
Its soo bad that the ele specialisation is just a better version of an excisting build. It brings completly new gameplay for me. In pve its again just a brainless mighstacker. It is fixing the problem elementalists have…that they need to switch the element every 2 seconds in oder to be good…and also makes it not a must to blast any firefield to give allies might…but to be honest..it will just be it again….to be most effective again brainless mightstacking is needed and switching the element every 2-3 seconds…maybe we will wait like 5-10 seconds 1 time to make that fireoverload..but thats it.

As for pvp..i didnt try it out yet..but it looks like it will be a bit stronger than the DD cele ele.

for me i think its so sad that ele have a very limited playstyle there r just 3 acceptable builds for pvp. and for pve anything other than the mightstacker makes no sense.

Would be nice to choose only 2 Elements but make them much stronger and better.

well all in all i think tempest is a nice try to solve the elementalists problem..but i guess it dont solve it.

(3 years experience in ele as main )

this percieved “problem” is not a problem. it is how the ele is supposed to play. that is why we have no weapon swap and high CD, an a bunch of traits all about switching attunments.

As for better…are you high? have you even played tempest? it is weaker in everyway and doesn’t synergise.

burning needs to be fixed, scepter needs to be fixed and made competative with D/D. not D/D Nerfed

Mattmatt.4962:

Not better, this would means tempest > ele in every way
It must be a good melee wvw support. “niche” role, but at least it opens new role (currently you can’t play melee in wvw (you barely could when rock solid was a viable trait so now ….)) without destroying current role

That is the thing. if the tempest support is “Just as good” then that is just as bad because what is the point of the tempest.

Mattmatt.4962:

Jski.6180:

Pulsing blast finisher is a good ideal.

So that the ideal add a field to each overload (i think standardizing time of channeling will make this work better so say 4-3 sec for all or 4-3 pulses for there effects) but earth that become a pulsing blast finisher.

I think that would go a long way to fixing tempest as an elite spec and fill a support roll.

Very good idea too.
Not enough to fix tempest ofc (still need trait rework and maybe slight buff to WH)

Glad that pro-tempest and con-tempest manage to find good ideas together

we need to either get away from support. or make the support so much better then base ele.

I pretty much use earth exclusivly, especially in PvP. it can tank a heap of damage and you can hide behind it against non piercing effects.

VodCom.6924:

snip

I never said they promise, I said they teased us, learn to read.

Confirmed by berserker stream ’Warriors do not use magic"

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

Grimreaper.5370:

Jski.6180:

posthumecaver.6473:

First let me tell this, I am addictive to Ele.

I tried every class in the game but my doom was that I started with main Ele then all other classes felt so boring.

With every other class, you switch to weapon set, you use your skill then wait for them come of cooldown or switch weapon, so most of the time you stay there and auto attack, it feels unbearable for me.

What I really like about Ele it has a solution for everything, every time, nothing come close to this feeling in this game for me, other then some level Engineer.

When I see the Tempest first time, I said, oh my, Overload that locking me to attunements and increase their cooldowns, nooooooooo.

With my all best intents, I can’t see any good use ofOverloads other then glass Staff Ele camping Fire in PVE and Lighting Hammer builds camping water.

So ANet, if I want to use Tempest please don’t make me a bot, give me a chance to use Overloads but also able to be reactive and enjoy immersive play style.

I do not get this one bit you seem to love ele so why are you looking for a new class in tempest? You do understand that tempest is not a stronger version of the older class and that it should be on the same level as an ele. Simply put tempest being a support spec or playing differently then the ele class dose not take any thing away from ele.

The elite spec is supposed to provide a new playstyle that compliments the current design. Look at berserker, its turning a 3 adrnealine bar into 1 bar which leads to faster paced action, this idea is great and compliments the warrior playstyle. Now look at tempest, our overloads scream “interrupt me”, slow us down and lock us out of attunements longer than ever. Overloads dont feel like they compliment the class, they need to be scrapped and redesigned.

Being able to spame ability more is a new play-style? See to me tempest is a song base class who support there team in this way is a type play-style from that of ele and all other classes in the game.

stop calling it a song based class. having song sounding names doesn;t make it song based. Shouting isn’t singing. the warhorn certainty isn;t musical.

Shouts are a type of singing and warhorns are still a type of musical interment. Its a lot to do with the images of the trait line of tempest.

I assume we will get a spec by the name of Bard sometime in the future. probably Mesmer. but until then, nothing about tempest is musical except trait names

Blaine Tog.8304:

Argol Vazin.3061:

You don’t seem to understand. Betas are a tool to gather feedback. They are charging people for their feedback. If it was an Open beta, then it would be a whole other story.

But they aren’t charging players for feedback. If you buy the expansion a little early, they give you an additional ability to participate in beta events. You don’t pay to participate, you don’t have to participate, and if you _do_participate, you don’t have to give them any feedback.

Ok, maybe worded wrong, but what benefit is there in not participating in a beta to you know, kittening test the game and suggest feedback. that is the core concept of a beta. Sorry for wanting a voice in how the future of a game I like is handled. I guess i am just a crackpot conspiracy theory nutcase if I think Betas should be used for their kittening purpose and should be open and free to the public instead of behind a paywall…which is anti-consumerist bullkitten.

Alphard.6529:

Argol Vazin.3061:

They are charging people for their feedback.

These ideas are getting into crazy territory.

Because it’s true? There isn’t much of a conspiracy theory when it is fact.

To give proper feedback, you need to play the beta, To get into the beta, you need to pre-purchase.

Ohoni.6057:

But the point is, you aren’t paying to play the beta. You’re paying for HoT, you get the beta as the bonus. At most, you’re paying slightly earlier than you otherwise would, but if you’re willing to pay $50 just to get into a beta, then be honest, not paying $50 by launch day wasn’t really on the table, was it?

This is the whole “why do I have to pay for the original GW2 if I already own the game” argument all over again.

You don’t seem to understand. Betas are a tool to gather feedback. They are charging people for their feedback. If it was an Open beta, then it would be a whole other story.

Ohoni.6057:

But it’s still an absolute fact that the BWEs are NOT a “paid beta,” regardless of how that fact makes you feel.

Early access then. If it looks like kitten, smells like kitten but called by a different name. it is still kitten.

Ohoni.6057:

the only way you can defend the beta is if it was opened to public for free.

Nope, I can defend it under the current circumstances too!

Paid betas are anti consumerist so If Anet wants to prove they aren’t. They should listen to consumer feedback.

Again, it’s not a paid beta. A paid beta is when they say “if you pay us $10, then you get beta access, and nothing else.” They have not offered that. What they have offered is that if you pre-order the game (which is hardly a new practice in gaming), then you get guaranteed beta access, in addition to getting the game that you paid for when it comes out.

I pre-purchased the game, but would have done so even if the beta wasn’t on the table, because I pre-purchased the game three years ago and have been playing it daily since, and expect to continue doing so for years to come. If you would not have spent $50 on the game if it hadn’t included beta access then I really don’t know what to say about that.

Willfull ignorance is not an excuse to ignore that it is a paid beta. Anet knew people would pre purchase to get into the beta. Ergo it is a paid beta/early access what ever you want to call it.

Ohoni.6057:

Blah Blah Blah

the only way you can defend the beta is if it was opened to public for free. They knew people would pay to enter even though pre-purchase rewards is the scummiest of tactics,
it is disingenuous to think we have no right to complain.
Paid betas are anti consumerist so If Anet wants to prove they aren’t. They should listen to consumer feedback.

yes I pre-purchased despite knowing I was in part encouraging such actions, But it is worth it to have a voice about the state of the game and the state of it’s features.

Ohoni.6057:

AKA People can still have fun with something that is not viable because the game is easy in pve, so they should cater to this larger playerbase that just cares if a concept is new and shinny, not if its good.

Exactly.

All that matters is that the majority of the players are having fun, even if they’re “wrong” to be having fun with something that The Forum clearly disapproves of.

anet fanboy to the maximum. i have the right, all day long, to yell about a broken product I PAID FOR.

You will. You have not paid for the Tempest yet. You will have paid for Tempest on day one of HoT. Today, all you have paid for is access to the beta, and that doesn’t guarantee you that Tempest will even be an option. Four of the classes weren’t even in BWE1. You are not guaranteed that the Tempest in any beta event will meet your expectations, they do not owe you a Tempest that meets your expectations. You can express what your expectations are, and that you’re concerned that it won’t get there, but they do not owe it to you to provide ANY sort of Tempest until HoT launch date.

Even after launch, you did not buy “the Tempest you want,” and they never promised that to you. When you paid, they only promised that the Ele will be getting “an elite spec,” and it will be. It may not be the spec you want to play, but it will be there, and hopefully a lot of other people will enjoy it. If you don’t, then that’s just too bad, hopefully the next round of elite specs will be more to your liking.

Either way, you are getting everything you paid for, whether you like it or not.

if they are putting a paid beta out. it should by all means be treated as a product that has been paid for. It is already bad enough to you have to pay for a beta to be able to give feedback, beta should be free.

Given that it is a product we have paid for. it is the customers right to demand fixes.

tboneking.2531:

I’m just shocked at the attitude some of you seem to have. Ele currently has 1st or 2nd highest dps in the game for pve, and a rediculously good bruser build for pvp, as well as other fairly competent ones. Why would you need a specialization that buffs the class further and does these rediculously amazing and op things? What is this “wound” a net is putting salt on? They gave you a spec that focuses on aoe group support in the face of what they call “challenging content”. I just don’t see what the problem is. Tempest is just a name, be glad you didn’t get one as bad as “Dragon Hunter”.

have you actually played Tempest or read the forum. we don’t want something overpowered. we want something new. Tempest is a weaker, flawed version of what we already do with no synergy with the base class. please learn a thing or 2 before posting.

Jski.6180:

Grimreaper.5370:

Jski.6180:

posthumecaver.6473:

First let me tell this, I am addictive to Ele.

I tried every class in the game but my doom was that I started with main Ele then all other classes felt so boring.

With every other class, you switch to weapon set, you use your skill then wait for them come of cooldown or switch weapon, so most of the time you stay there and auto attack, it feels unbearable for me.

What I really like about Ele it has a solution for everything, every time, nothing come close to this feeling in this game for me, other then some level Engineer.

When I see the Tempest first time, I said, oh my, Overload that locking me to attunements and increase their cooldowns, nooooooooo.

With my all best intents, I can’t see any good use ofOverloads other then glass Staff Ele camping Fire in PVE and Lighting Hammer builds camping water.

So ANet, if I want to use Tempest please don’t make me a bot, give me a chance to use Overloads but also able to be reactive and enjoy immersive play style.

I do not get this one bit you seem to love ele so why are you looking for a new class in tempest? You do understand that tempest is not a stronger version of the older class and that it should be on the same level as an ele. Simply put tempest being a support spec or playing differently then the ele class dose not take any thing away from ele.

The elite spec is supposed to provide a new playstyle that compliments the current design. Look at berserker, its turning a 3 adrnealine bar into 1 bar which leads to faster paced action, this idea is great and compliments the warrior playstyle. Now look at tempest, our overloads scream “interrupt me”, slow us down and lock us out of attunements longer than ever. Overloads dont feel like they compliment the class, they need to be scrapped and redesigned.

Being able to spame ability more is a new play-style? See to me tempest is a song base class who support there team in this way is a type play-style from that of ele and all other classes in the game.

stop calling it a song based class. having song sounding names doesn;t make it song based. Shouting isn’t singing. the warhorn certainty isn;t musical.

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Eng? Though i think they have more then 4 and they can switch between 5 at most base wepon being one of the 5.

ELEMENTS…you know, fire, water, air, earth. Just like those leaked sword skills. Also Forge is getting hammer (forge is engi elite spec)

Posted the response above more as an after though. But i would like to point out that elements are just a name its more about being able to switch these effect in a fight so in a way eng with kits is just like an ele but under a different name. (At the end of the day this is a game and this is all in programming names and animation are not needed for the abitly to work they are more for the player benefit.)

now where did I put that epic double facepalm video

Jski.6180:

Argol Vazin.3061:

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Eng? Though i think they have more then 4 and they can switch between 5 at most base wepon being one of the 5.

ELEMENTS…you know, fire, water, air, earth. Just like those leaked sword skills. Also Forge is getting hammer (forge is engi elite spec)

Jski.6180:

The players teased them self looking at place holder sword skills and thinking they where for ele. Anet did nothing.

name a class that has the ability to switch between four elements and doesn’t already have a sword.

Ohoni.6057:

The PvP perspective is used too often in designing this game. Ok, so the Tempest is not useful in PvP. That’s fine. The Tempest should not be used in PvP, or with Staves, that’s ok. As you say, the D/D dagger is already fine in PvP, they don’t need for Tempest to be ideal in PvP as well.

And this is where credibility is lost (not that there was any) No longer to be taken serious when discussing design.

“Lets make an elite spec that can only be used in 1 of the 3 aspects of the game, and can’t use the tools of the base class”

anyone suggesting that at a meeting would be laughed out of the room

Ohoni.6057:

Yadda yadda Yadda

It is about 3 things
Respect: The other specializations treated with respect
Synergy: The other elite specs still maintain synergy with the base class. meaning all their weapons can still be used and they aren’t forced into 1 thing
New ideas, effects and mechanics
Chrono gets alacrity and rewind mechanic
Reaper gets a new minion with a new effect
Herald is given a new form of signets (this is on top of the revenant already having taunt among some other new effects)
Berserker is given newly made, unique utilities, Mobile field, ability to turn foes into projectiles

Tempest…nothing except movement animations…but that is all, animations, one of them is a reused dagger storm

I have left out Dragon Hunter because it doesn’t interest me at all and I don’t feel confident commenting on it.

Ohoni.6057:

Tempest is a violent storm. we barely have anything to do with storms. we have like maybe 3 small storm like effects.

Well, the Air overload is literally a storm, the other three are more metaphorical, but really what would be the alternative? Have the Tempest abandon the four elements altogether in favor of just stormy weather attacks? I don’t see how that would be better.

You can;t throw overloads into a normal rotation. that is willfully hindering yourself.

In my experience it didn’t seem that way, but if the number-crunchers say so, it’s just a matter of tweaking numbers, to make the Overloads more powerful, and therefore better balanced against the alternatives. Maybe the proposed BWE2 fixes will help with that.

You are willfully ignorant.
We could have a great maestrom that appears on the ground. sucking foes into the middle of the whirlpool before breaking into a tidal clash.

We could have a Tornado extending out from dark thunder clouds.

We could have a dust storm, a thick rolling cloud of dirt and rocks, that blinds and chokes (ticks damage) and stacks vuln on enemies.

For fire. an inferno of violent flames with embers swirling about and creating small fire fields around the main one

Also it isn;t just number crunching, it is the concept. Overloads are a melee range thing, so if you want to be a ranged staff, overloads are pointless. It is already established that the channel is interrupt bait, and sure they can add stab and increase numbers. but that doesn’t adress that it would offer exactly what D/D D/F already does. You have been on these forums long enough to understand this.

Ohoni.6057:

The reveal arrives, not only do we get nothing to fit the name tempest, we are given a support role worse then what we already do.
Nothing about Tempest synergized with the rest of the class. our new mechanic was dead on arrival.

Um, you may not like Tempest, but none of what you said there makes any sense. First, the Tempest is definitely “Tempesty,” it’s all about generating effects in which you are the “eye of the storm” and casting chaos all around you. There’s very little they could have done more “Tempesty” while retaining the four elements.

Second, it definitely synergizes great with the existing class, you can throw Overloads into a standard D/D rotation and it works great. Again, not sure what they could have done that would work much better.

Now they still need to tweak some things, as was the case with all the other elite specs, but the foundation of it is sound.

No pun intended.

As for the rest, if you like Herald or Zerker more, play those, nobody’s stopping you. I don’t think either of those would have worked well for Elementalists, they make no sense relative to the four elements mechanic that is the core feature of the class, nor would they work nearly as well on a light armored class. Now, I wouldn’t argue with them if they made it so that all Overloads were mobile Fire/Water/Lightning/Poison fields while you channel them, but that’s another matter entirely.

Tempest is a violent storm. we barely have anything to do with storms. we have like maybe a gentle breeze, a light dust cloud. a weak fire. a summer rain, a slight tremble. You can;t throw overloads into a normal rotation. that is willfully hindering yourself.

I love ele. it is the class I main. I have all right to be upset by the kitten we are given and envy the classes that are given better elite specs. but I am not going to stop playing an ele because of that. Just like you have the right to foolishly defend it…Your wrong in doing so but I am not going to stop you.

This has nothing to do with trying to be like the other Specs. It is about being given the same respect.

So our story begins when we are teased with elemental sword skills. The dream was rel, Ele would be getting sword. However the dream didn’t last and warhorn was destined to be our new weapon.

Although this was painful, the idea of a tempst, being able to call storms or become a living storm was an exciting prospect. Tempest means a violent storm.
The reveal arrives, not only do we get nothing to fit the name tempest, we are given a support role worse then what we already do.
Nothing about Tempest synergized with the rest of the class. our new mechanic was dead on arrival.

Then herald is announced. herald would be revealed to fill the melee support role. It is given nice sounding utilities that will make them strong, tanky front line support.

And now, Warriors, a martial class with no real magic. they are given the ability to become a mobile fire field, something that the ele should have being a master of elements. They also get a new utility type exclusive to them. and from what is known. they already synergize with their base class. Rampage with berserk mode. a Versatile Rage, fast hands, Burst mastery. these traits will feed the primal burst creating a non stop stream of primal bursts. and that is just 3 traits from the many.

So why, why does Anet hate us so. we are like the awkward nephew they keep hidden under the stairs and do everything they can to stop us realizing our power.

words fail me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNsrK6P9QvI