Guild Wars 2

Eziekiel.1067:

Just wanted to post that there is chance for this combo to do some crazy burst damage. Path of scars hits once on the way out but as many people know it can hit the same mob twice on the way back. So PoS can potentially hit three times in one cast. Not only that but if it hits twice on the return it can both trigger and execute moment of clarity. With a glass zerker build and buffs this can crit for 5k, 5k, and then 7k on the final hit if moment of clarity goes off. 17k damage from one attack isn’t too shabby. Of course a few variables are involved (mob position, ect) but play around with it. It’s awesome!

SoH and get a MoC hit outgoing and incoming. It appears to be our third hardest hitting Moc attack outgoing from limited testing I did and did seem to apply coming back but maybe I was observing this effect instead. More testing. I was simply thinking the MoC applied the full attack.

Just wish axe 5 left you mobile for batting practice.

Allie Murdock.8152:

So, it looks like some of you have already pointed out that not all the feedback was added to that summary.

Please read the first part of my post and note that I said this is only part of what has been going around, and not all of the information we have gotten out of this thread. We have been reading, after all.

Hope some of the more defensive comments are on that list for the upper tiers of the trait tree;). feel for whoever had to summarize all this but your list got a large amount of the concepts discussed at the high level overview.

Don’t agree with em all but you don’t get anywhere standing still.

misterdevious.6482:

Synister.8629:

Game Mode:
PvX

Proposal Overview:
Zephyr’s Speed Beastmaster trait change.

Goal of Proposal:
To prevent the Ranger’s pet from wasting its quickness boon/buff.

Currently, the Ranger and pet acquire quickness immediately after pet swapping. This isn’t an issue for the Ranger, but the pet is a little slower to react. The quickness only lasts 3 seconds, so more often than not, the pet wastes the entire duration running to the target or standing around.

I propose that the quickness boon/buff be applied after swapping pets, but ONLY after attacking. This will allow the pet time to run to the desired target before initiating quickness.

Proposal Functionality:

Pet
Swapped in>runs to target>attacks>quickness procs

Perhaps creating a boon/buff icon similar to the Attack of Opportunity would be wise, to prevent exploiting the effect.

Does that make sense?

Associated Risks:
None.

I like the idea. Often using Zephyr feels like a waste because the damage you gain from your own skills comes at the cost of swapping the pet out of range of its target. I do notice pets sometimes just standing still for most of the Quickness duration.

/agreed emphatically. Even ranged pets don’t reliably orientate in time for benefit. Ranger should get the same treatment on next attack.

Chrispy.5641:

I don’t blame the developers for not playing a larger role in this CDI thread, and I suggest that you read the Fractal Evolution CDI thread starting here (if you haven’t already) :::
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Fractal-Evolution/3706456

The lack of dev interaction in our Ranger thread was addressed there. Apparently some of our suggestions have been talked about, but….nothing else was really explained beyond that.

I would say that everyone should stay patient,…and only start raising hell if during the next profession CDI, suddenly there is alot more dev interaction (and I’m not talking about a little tiny bit more, I’m talking about there being a dev post on every freaking page, etc). Then that would prove your suspicions. Because we cannot prove that Anet hates and ignores Rangers, and Until then, lets keep giving this corporate focused rapid fire thread the benefit of the doubt.

Honestly I’ld rather deliberate posts and fewer than false hopes. Feeling misled generates alot more anger.

Atherakhia.4086:

You could just make it a ‘from stealth’ skill.

Rapid Fire, if used from stealth, does Punishing Shot.

Adding from stealth mechanics to it’s shots is a nice idea. Has control from the limited ways we can gain stealth. Strikes me it would be a chained 3 most logically but placement is kind of irrelevant.

While they are at it could they add a hookshot pull to 4 from stealth. Believe you mentioned siege issues in previous comments would give a way aside from PoS.

Atherakhia.4086:

Arrys.7145:

runeblade.7514:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chokolata.1870:

The longbow is easy to fix:
-compress the Rapid fire into 2.5 seconds from 4.5 seconds, keep total damage the same
-hunter shot stealths on shot not on hit
-allow movement during barrage channel

There, I fixed it… tsk

You’ve made it better, but it’s still an incomplete weapon. There’s no synergy between the attacks like there are with melee weapons. No real flow. You’ve also left the problem where Barrage and Hunter’s Shot are counter intuitive because you can stealth then barrage but you can’t barrage and then stealth. This is why barrage needs to be removed from the weapon. It just doesn’t make any sense the way it’s set up currently.

I disagree with this.

I like Barrage because it is a anti-melee pressure skill. Rangers always complain that people always get out of barrage aoe. So, I like to capitalize on that mind set and make barrage a anti-melee field. I use it to surround myself and shoot people from afar.

I wish barrage cooldown is lowered.

Longbow synergizes quite well for mixed damage builds. And barrage and hunters shot being counter intuitive seems counter intuitive. Layered damage and advanced preparation to resist generate damage is designed into us. From preloaded traps and spirits to SoH….

By setting up our opponents so multiple damages all come to bear in a short order that took us a decent bit longer to set up.

The KB ensures your stealth hits if you choose to not combo your disengage with a stealth drop target to prevent a quick leap as your big fat pet runs behind you creating a click target issue….So be it. It works.

If one doesn’t get the value of being able to bury your vulnerability with opening strikes then refresh it with a traited longbow. So be it.

Barrage not only layers damage people blow cleanses. And use dodges and weaken themselves….Or they run slowly at me and a stack of traps that applies my conditions in precise order….

The stealth is a near must to drop you elite spirit and prevent interupt. Our stealth mass raise. Don’t forget stealth finish potential downed doesn’t dodge.

And my break away KB stealth are both finishers….Or an extra 1500ish damage un might climbed as I disengage, extra 2 seconds of chill….

The weapon has synergy. It’s quite good.

Skirmishers shouldn’t self cc. remove the self rooting.

Don’t break my longbow please…

The problem is the layered damage you mention comes in the form of utility skills, not 2 weapon skills on the same weapon being counter intuitive. Can you think of another weapon that has this issue? Where a single weapon has 2 skills that can never work together? I can’t off hand, but if there are please mention them.

The only internal synergy you mentioned in your post was that of using knock back + stealth? Chaining 2 utility skills like that makes no sense whatsoever.

And barrage itself is just so incredibly weak for what it does. I’d much rather see it moved to a utility skill and improved so it’s actually something worth using more often. Right now it’s only used on walls and on zergs. But in these situations it’s not used for the CC value, it’s used for the delayed damage (in the case of walls) and for AE loot spam. Cripple just isn’t the area denial you’re making it out to be.

The layered damage comes from a barrage pet and LB 1, preloaded damage is my traps whose CD’s are ticking to zero because they were placed in advance. And as I noted If they burn dodge and a cleanse before they reach me and my trap stack this is good news. And since pet and ranger are proccing conditions plus the cripple, I draw early cleanse waste all the time.

KB to stealth is simple survival – I don’t get high toughness. If the traps don’t panic them I’m not lasting toe to toe with a warrior. And they have lots of gap closers. Get range go stealth and use my pet trail to hopefully keep em off me if there isn’t a los point I set up by.

Just wanted to point out the weapon does synergize even if it’s not for your build. And I went through and still revert to lots of longbow builds of all varieties. Damage isn’t great but psycholgical impact to average players is high when skirmishing.

Terravos.4059:

Trapper’s aren’t bad..that’s the thing, They’re one of the few Builds we have that don’t need much help..And Skirmishing itself is fine with those traits there.

Skirmishing does need better Power Based Build traits though, Putting some of the Traits together (Like maybe combining the Trap Traits together and making it so people only have to go up to the Master Part of the tree together might make people happy. As they’d have an extra 10 points to work with. You could then do 20/20/30 or 10/20/30/10/0 or 0/20/30/20 Builds for Trappers.

Moving the Piercing Arrow Trait over to Skirmishing’s Bow Trait might be decent also, Because it makes that Trait in general better pick for Power Builds that use bow, and it free’s up a Trait in Marksman for Power builds.

The Rez Traits in general could go away, There is no reason to have most of them in the game as most people won’t use them. They’d be fine as Minor Traits, but actual Traits you choose is just silly.

In fact there is a lot of “filler” traits like that in general in this game that would be better as option Minor Traits you could pick in builds.

Trapper Builds

Agree not much help. Really wouldn’t want piercing arrows because it messes with stealth generation from LB and trap’s and barrage are enough aoe. In a PvP WvW context I simply need to know my stealth will work and piercing is a risk.

Run a very similar build to yours in the vid you posted using carrion armor rampager carrion stat accessories to up my crit. Similar numbers different power/cond ratio numbers swapping more vit(carrion impact) for toughness. And the stealth of LB can be a pretty important survival tool.

Sharpened edges getting an additional .5 duration would be helpful but damage envelope is ik really needs a bit more survivability.

Combining the traits at 20 would also open some interesting options. IMHO build really just needs a little extra defense.

If you combined both at 20 and at 30 added a new trait I’ld suggest a defensive trait. Something like 15% chance on crit daze 1 seconds ICD 5 seconds. An interupt generator but blocked from access to MoC. Could also grant a chance on crit to proc aegis (Probably preferred as overlapping rangers proccing daze could be real annoying come to think of it.) Or a chance on crit to transfer 2 conditions to my opponent 10 sec icd. Might counter those necro’s that hard counter me pretty badly. A chance to steal a boon on crit…. Something to up defense in skirmishing would be nice.

Gotejjeken.1267:

It does seem all control was lost of this CDI a long time ago—no one is even following proposal format anymore.

Is it possible to lock this, restart it, and only accept 100 or so properly formatted proposals? After that, lock that topic and start a topic of discussion only. As rightn ow this thread is super long and way out of hand.

That or a dev posts the top 10 ideas from this thread that they like. Something to tell us that this is not just another ranger sub-forum topic.

I sort of looked at it, if proposing a concept use the format.

When I discuss someone else’s concept or respond to a dev I make sure to quote them and then discuss. Now in that discussion I may include ideas.

My general assumption is unlike us they have a capacity to extract data using an algorithim and could hopefully then create clean tree’s of the ideas and discussion without intervening clutter.

Bunch clutter comment by word sequence. A basic spider.

Now it is difficult to read but I find the “find” function on your browser a quick way to scan a page for issues of interest to you.

Longbow, traps, signet and if tracking a proposal to look for a multi word text string from that proposal etc….

There are also a few names I’ve set asside where I like their ideas and look for them to see if they added anything new.

Finally I don’t always comment but I do upvote figuring they can rank that way real well.

runeblade.7514:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chokolata.1870:

The longbow is easy to fix:
-compress the Rapid fire into 2.5 seconds from 4.5 seconds, keep total damage the same
-hunter shot stealths on shot not on hit
-allow movement during barrage channel

There, I fixed it… tsk

You’ve made it better, but it’s still an incomplete weapon. There’s no synergy between the attacks like there are with melee weapons. No real flow. You’ve also left the problem where Barrage and Hunter’s Shot are counter intuitive because you can stealth then barrage but you can’t barrage and then stealth. This is why barrage needs to be removed from the weapon. It just doesn’t make any sense the way it’s set up currently.

I disagree with this.

I like Barrage because it is a anti-melee pressure skill. Rangers always complain that people always get out of barrage aoe. So, I like to capitalize on that mind set and make barrage a anti-melee field. I use it to surround myself and shoot people from afar.

I wish barrage cooldown is lowered.

Longbow synergizes quite well for mixed damage builds. And barrage and hunters shot being counter intuitive seems counter intuitive. Layered damage and advanced preparation to resist generate damage is designed into us. From preloaded traps and spirits to SoH….

By setting up our opponents so multiple damages all come to bear in a short order that took us a decent bit longer to set up.

The KB ensures your stealth hits if you choose to not combo your disengage with a stealth drop target to prevent a quick leap as your big fat pet runs behind you creating a click target issue….So be it. It works.

If one doesn’t get the value of being able to bury your vulnerability with opening strikes then refresh it with a traited longbow. So be it.

Barrage not only layers damage people blow cleanses. And use dodges and weaken themselves….Or they run slowly at me and a stack of traps that applies my conditions in precise order….

The stealth is a near must to drop you elite spirit and prevent interupt. Our stealth mass raise. Don’t forget stealth finish potential downed doesn’t dodge.

And my break away KB stealth are both finishers….Or an extra 1500ish damage un might climbed as I disengage, extra 2 seconds of chill….

The weapon has synergy. It’s quite good.

Skirmishers shouldn’t self cc. remove the self rooting.

Don’t break my longbow please…

Chrispy.5641:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

I don’t know if I should like this or not. As Chrispy has already pointed out in this thread, the signets are actually pretty strong. They probably have to be toned down and I really don’t think a nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of this thread.

Yeah, the actives do have to be toned down in order for them to affect the pet and Ranger, but not as much as Yoh is suggesting.

Sigh….3,….2,….1,….. and…..“What the kitten Chrispy!?!” (I know someone was thinking of it!)

….Well, lets look at the Signet of Renewal suggestion. The passive effect hasn’t changed. It still removes a condition every 10 seconds. The Active, removes 2 conditions, with a 25 second cooldown. Under that suggestion, it is better, and more efficient, to just let the passive effect stay on without ever bothering to use the active. It would be like Warriors Healing Signet, where the active never gets used because the passive is so much obviously better.

That suggestion in that post is a nerf, not a buff or a positive change. The Original Active of Signet of Renewal broke stun on you, and would remove all conditions from all allies, and transfer them to your pet. Sure, your pet had to be alive, and it would surely die after using the signet, but, if I had to choose between removing all conditions from me and my allies(and giving them to my pet), or just removing 2 from me and my pet….I would definitely pick the option that removes more conditions.

Glad for the Dev response, but, most of that suggestion itself isn’t that amazing. You need to work on it a little bit Yoh.

Any Significant cd reduction would also end up generating a severe nerf to beastmasters might. Put us on a reduced but weakened signet CD and it would be an absolute must.

Now the traits are fine. But as people push 30 to get full utility of benefitting themselves and not just the pet. The better solution would be to do the following I think.

Rewrite signet of the wild and signet of stone to work like SoH. i.e. a 14 minute grey buff that can be preloaded and activates the next time you attack(wild) and get attacked (stone).

What this means is for 30 points the beastmaste ranger can enter combat without initial might but doing more damage and with a six second invuln…. As they go through combat about 6 seconds in they can reset their signets generate their beastmasters might spike crescendo get more defense then have the existing CD reset.

The change has their initial damage starting slower, their existing front end burst moves to a middle(but their defense was enhanced another 6 seconds) then they have the same long existing cd.

Of course one would be free to use it the existing way but preloading would I think become the preferred choice as it would have a survivability chance vs multi opponents. RaO on the front end to generate might through those first 6 seconds would lead to secondary signet pops being a 1 maybe 2 not 3 pop, letting them hold a safety in reserve.

And quite frankly not increase the DPS spike but enhance their sustain a bit and create more tactical play in the build.

Personally if I dared touch signets, that’s all I’ld risk.

Ohh and BM’s going 20 in power….would get additional pet improvements for debunkering and it might create a new interesting hybrid BM build from the bottom heal line as well.

And the ability for a 12 second invuln pet may benefit pve. Sustain is about survival they spend alot their job is to get close keep the zerk ranger at range…..If 12 is to long cumulatively to begin a fight can a debuff be created on Sig stone invuln fade that lasts say 15 seconds which halves the effectiveness of the next sig stone invuln?

Which of course begs the point is that a zerk melee signet maul or do they want to stand over there and shoot me….which opens options in indecision.

Pretty sure the existing signet players might be ok with that but I’ld ask them before messing with the one power build that seems popular.

It means running my carrion power trap build I could choose to ignore ws having a powerful defensive option to cycle and use far more tactically in MM than the passive back end there.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

misterdevious.6482:

Specific Game Mode
WvW

Proposal Overview
Make shouts a more reliable and dependable skill choice. Make Nature’s Voice more than just the “Guard” spamming trait by adding specific ally buffs for each shout skill.

Goal of Proposal
Shouts are generally seen as unreliable. Your pet needs to be alive. Your pet needs to be healthy enough or it will die and waste the shout. The skill can be wasted if the target/ally goes down or rallies before the pet reaches it. Nature’s Voice is seen by many as serving only one purpose… to spam the Guard skill for Swiftness and Regen, and that is too singular a purpose for a grand master trait.

Proposal Functionality
Nature’s Voice: Shouts grant buffs to allies. Guard grants Swiftness and Regen. Protect Me grants Retaliation and Protection. Sic ’em Grants Fury and Might. Search and Rescue grants Stability and Stealth (or Camouflage).

Associated Risks
People taking and using shouts for the traited purpose rather than the original skill purpose (this already happens with Guard). Any additional shouts added will further complicate this trait. The loss of regen/swiftness from the other shouts may be felt by some players. Being able to stealth rez is quite a powerful ability in WvW.

This is a pretty cool idea to make that trait a bit more unique for each shout rather than applying the same two boons for every shout. It would give more reason to take specific shouts. In general shouts do need some tweaks as well to make them more appealing.

understatement of the year. But improving them if your true to the line their in creates just another bunker option as I look at them from a PvP perspective simply by line and points. Granted well designed it might be a power bunker option but bunker nonetheless.

On the other hand you have a series of utilities I’m not sure anyone is wedded to and desperately need to help ranger find a viable role in high end pve. Shouts make a pretty logical choice to put a solution within: And please remember sometimes it’s combating other player perception of pet evils. If other players know there is a no skill cap way to be 100% safe from poor pet management aggro….unknown rangers become less stigmatized because theres an idiotproof solution. Check if the ranger you added to group has the grey buff of safety….All’s well. Pet Prejudice the racism of gaming. (Always is, your game isn’t unique) Clearly hard to fix anticipate.

Give rangers a way to turn on a my pet is idiot proof sign through a shout that forces the pet passive and stops it from drawing aggro give it a 4 hour duration and assign no point value to it. Or all pve rangers suffer for the collective memory of poorly managed pet wipes.

Pet’s have pulled way to many “I’m chuck norris” moments in gamers memories. If I pve I heal(Why I don’t pve in a no heal no intertwined dependency game and in that frame of reference I hate pet class players I don’t know too. Just raising the issue that just because you know it’s skill cap doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact how rangers get treated in game. Unfortunate but true.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Yoh.8469:

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview

• Redesign the ‘Active’ portions of Signets to effects that work on both the Ranger and Pet by default.

Goal of Proposal

• To give these skills more utility when activated, while also filling in weaknesses in the Rangers design. (lack of viable stun breaks and active condition removal)

Proposal Functionality

• Signet of Renewal
  Passive – Removes a condition every 10 seconds.
  Active – Remove 2 conditions from you and your pet. 25 sec CD.
  This would largely solve the Rangers lack of active condition removal. Thou one more source of active removal might still be needed to give people options.

• Signet of Stone
  Passive – Increase Toughness on you and your pet.
  Active – You and your pet gain Stability and Aigis for X seconds. Stun Break. 30-45 sec CD.
  This should give the Ranger another viable stun break and stability option, besides Lightning Reflexes. So long as the cooldown isn’t prohibitively long.

• Signet of the Hunt
  Passive – You and your pet move 25% faster.
  Active – You and your pet’s next attack deals 25% more damage. 30 sec CD.
  A decent compromise with what the skill currently does, allowing for spike potential without being overly strong.

• Signet of the Wild
  Passive – You and your pet regenerate health.
  Active – You and your pet share damage for X seconds. 40 sec CD.
  Note, with the Signet of the Wild’s active effect, when you take direct damage, 50% of that goes to your pet, and vice versa. Only once per damage, it doesn’t bounce back and forth. Retaliation and conditions are unaffected.
  The reason you’d want to do this is that Protection, Retaliation can be triggered twice, in addition to healing. However you run the risk of taking double damage if both you and your pet are being attacked. Naturally it doesn’t work if your pet is dead.

Associated Risks
The ‘Signet of the Beastmaster’ would be rendered useless by this change, and would have to be replaced. Signet of the Wild’s effect could become too powerful in SPvP as a tanking option. Increasing the cooldown for that version could solve that problem.

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

making signets better would be nice but clearly the active effects would have to change on at least “ALL of THEM”. Which means you run the risk of breaking our zerk build…..

Tread wisely is all I have to say or you’ll have even unhappier rangers than before the CDI. You could not only not please but anger every ranger that carried this to 30 pages asking for better damage capacity.

Jocksy.3415:

Durzlla.6295:

Aioros.4862:

jcbroe.4329:

I haven’t ever seen anything that was nerfed unnecessarily, and for the most part, this a perception that is shared by people who play every other single class.

Pet damage for non beastmaster builds?
Shortbow range?
Shortbow “animation fix” mega nerf?

Key word is bolded, when SB had same range as longbow there was literally 0 reason to use the longbow, pet damage was nerfed because you could go bunker with literally 0 drawback, and SB animation fix was to make the weapon not ungodly OP, after that “mega nerf” it continued to be, and still is, one of our best weapons.

Balance is not about balancing a class with itself, but with the whole game. They wanted to make longbow more desired, so instead of adding to it, to bring it to a point equal to similar possibilities of other classes, they chose to nerf a weapon that was on par with other classes possibilities….

I do understand that it is hard to find a good balance for all game modes, but balancing everything on one game mode that is not representative of what most people do is far from the solution.

If the SB would have been really overpowered – which I don’t think it was – they wouldn’t have nerfed it to balance out with longbow, they would have nerfed it to balance with general professions’ abilities. (Pretty much everybody say they nerfed it to make longbow more wanted… I don’t remember reading that they nerfed it because it was, in itself, overpowered).
Since that nerf, they did boost longbow somewhat, guess the SB nerf was not enough to get people to use LB…

Not sure if it makes sense; English is not my main language.

TL;DR
Balance should not be only within one profession, but have to take into account all that one profession is doing (CC, Damage, healing, damage reduction) compared with all that other professions are doing.

Shortbow was faceroll easy for a long time. So faceroll easy you rarely saw rangers without it. It needed fixing.

LB really wasn’t fixed after that patch but it’s a very interesting weapon now as it’s been improved much since. If I made any change to it. LB 1 would become a 3 shot string with the third shot bounding you back based on distance to enemy. at 1000 – 0 units at 500 – 300 units back below 100 – 900 units.

Basically a counter to the massive amount of leaps and pulls in this game I encounter in even small skirmishes. It’s a mobility control weapon and stability spam and leaps pulls are it’s weakness.

Cufufalating.8479:

Durzlla.6295:

-snip-

So glad at least one person shares my opinion on the matter, and is able to explain it better than me.

agreed, but I’ll still take a way to proc an aegis reliably in the skirmishing line through an opening strikes style ability to enhance my dodges against burst and give extra defense to a build that through armor runes finds vitality to health more than a bit low.

Chrispy.5641:

Arrys.7145:

Like those ideas but healing spring as survival. takes survival skills to find a spring right. Plus aren’t traps triggered by enemies….

Troll ungeunt sounds like some salve so I agree survival makes sense but not all heals need a cd reduction. Heal as one could be improved and needs it over TU is all.

Good concepts

It does make sense too that Healing Spring could be a survival skill. There are a few reasons why I went with trap instead though:::
- Healing Spring was a ‘Trap’ in Guild Wars 1, and benefited from the same skill that other traps did (bu it triggered automatically, not from enemies) :::

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Healing_spring
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Trap
• The other reason is that the traits that benefit traps would make more sense for Healing Spring, such as using Trapper’s Expertise to give it a larger effect radius to remove conditions and give regen to allies in a larger area. Traits like Circle of Life would actually benefit from that larger radius as well.

On the lower cooldown thing, almost every skill type has a trait that reduces cooldown, so if you change healing skills to be of an actual skill type instead of just plain healing, it would make sense for it to also benefit from the traits that reduce cooldown.

I do admit that numbers have to be played with by the devs (like any other balance change)

Didn’t play GW1. The trap version would definitely be preferable. Somewhat selfishly as I like power/condition trap builds and spring and it would enhance the builds sniper claymore mine defending my snipers nest, small conflict assist build.

Aggrostemma.1703:

My vision about the ranger:

As the master of the wild we should use our knowledge about the nature. This includes the “traps, spirits and other dirty tricks”. If you attack a ranger you never know what trick they have up in the sleeve. A ranger will not be afraid to use everything to win including cowardly “dodges” or a well placed “kick” between the legs. Yet if you use “poisons” or any other uncomfortable things on them the shake them of because “you cannot live in a forest if a spider’s bite kills you can you?”

Following a ranger should be always a risk. What he has? Traps? Spirits? Is this ground safe or it’s quicksand? Is he using poison?

Goal of Proposal:
Make the ranger the ultimate annoy factor in the game by making the spirits INVULNERABLE and INVISIBLE and move the trap skills a bit around. So the foe never knows what a ranger is up to. Such way the ranger can provide some utility for wvw-zergs. In small scale fight they will be a formidable opponent.

Just imagine: You see the enemy team stack around a ranger… What is there? Healing spirit to keep them up? Or Frost spirit to burst you down if you move closer?

Proposal functionality:

Traps and spirits must be much stronger by default. They must provide at least one more “utility” to overwhelm the opponent:
Flame trap: Blind
Spike trap: Torment
Frost trap: Knock down
Viper’s Nest: Confusion

Make the spirits invulnerable and invisible. Limit them so we can only have one spirit at one time only. Such way the enemy never knows what is he against and this gives the ranger a bit more time to whittle down.

Associated risks:

The "one spirit out only "can limit some “zoo” builds. The heal from the Spirit combined with regen bunker build could be unstoppable. So the healing amount of the Nature’s Spirit must be a bit lower. It’s an elite skill anyway.

What do you think?

In general I find rangers underestimate the benefit of even a single spirit(stone) even at 35%. The only weapon I couldn’t get to have it deliver every protection opportunity if able to maintain attacking uptime pre arrow travel shift was longbow and I left the game for a good while and haven’t retested spirit’s as single accessory options since.

However the whole spirit thing is a great concept and rather than seriously limit a full spirit build which does really offer some great group benefit it’s more a matter of fixing spirit size. Stone being defensive and heals being defensive should remain unchanged but the DPS ones made much smaller with smaller obstruction boxes. At the same time, we spec to get piercing and aoe potential. Other classes cleave and since returning having tested spirits extensively pre aquaman patch despite their improved health it’s sort of a learn to play issue in terms of dropping a rangers spirits. Or get piercing just like I do so that guardian warrior doesn’t body block the elementalist I’m shooting.

Durzlla.6295:

jcbroe.4329:

thefantasticg.3984:

jcbroe.4329:

The most important piece of information mentioned by any dev post in the CDI so far was actually the post about the intent to give rangers more options for condition removal outside of Empathic Bond, which is happening “soon.”

I guess you’re specifically referring to the “soon” part because it’s been said on at least one STOG months ago that I remember (pretty sure it was by a Mr. Sharp) that they were “working” on getting more active condition removal into the Ranger’s line up.

Yeah but we’re also talking about a balance team that only releases big changes quarterly, if we’re that lucky. The fact is, it’s finally a red post confirming information that will make most ranger players who do any sort of playing outside of PvE sigh with relief. at least until we see the patch notes to confirm whether any implemented change is actually a decently viable one.

All I gotta say is if the new condi removal is another “slap em on your pet!” Ability I’m going to flip every table in Anets HQ…

We should point out that self rooting and/or pet damaging abilities are not consistent with the skirmisher philosophy they have for us. Skirmishers don’t voluntarily degrade their own survival potential. Should be a lick(heal bleeding/remove burning) consume conditions with only poison transferring or something like that. symbiotic not parasitic.

Durzlla.6295:

Chokolata.1870:

I am afraid to say that the devs have no concept for the ranger. They are throwing random changes out without any vision what so ever and then change the supposed philosophy to match the random changes.

have you even read the CDI? Or even looked at the changes that have happened to ranger? They’ve all fit the same theme…

Durzlla we’re biased. From your posts I can tell you often use dual damage sustain like I most often do. And if they wanted to enhance us defensively in those builds we both realize not to much needs to happen to defensively to make them much better.

I do agree all their changes with the exception of moving spirit CD to death are consistent with what they told us.

Even being forced to go 100% manual impacting sustain for our max burst potential is consistent and clearly intentional.

looks like the highest damage potential active defense MACH 4 build just about(Due to your gear survivability balancing). Wouldn’t sub out Rao (stability a must IMHO) poison from sword 3, chill from snow leopard.

make sure to use preload function of SoH before heading anywhere.

Have all weapons off autoattack. Use a Jungle stalker for additional advance might generation. Change your GS sigil to crit after swap IMHO.

Pull it off perfect 8 MOC’s between you and pet 2 guaranteed to crit- thats potentially two glass coffins in @ 15-20 seconds.

Goes horribly wrong(Fat finger kittenup operator error) clear target, swoop away reengage another day.

On guardians let your pet pop their initial aegis before your first MACH.

It’s active, It takes skill, I’ts not too glass as you built it, it can blow things up wouldn’t want to do it without a gaming mouse and my thumb to spam attacks when needed due to keeping all weapons off autoattack for MoC control.

And if you aren’t using the porker any takes away player control of actions f2 pet is probably preferable if you don’t like the 2 cat option. Remember swoop can be used to get in range fast (Without hitting someone and triggering your MOC for the first MOC which is a guaranteed crit but also your lowest might stack point in fight.) Wolf fear to split enemies, immobilizes etc…

15 seconds to Mach 4, as low as five seconds to Mach 3 in your build.

depending on pets, pet condition duration preferable imho to getting my signets back faster because it is better control within combat not between combat. If they aren’t dead and you are waiting for signets to cycle your sustain for A long time is a general MOC cycle. Lets face it they are face mashers or you are dead.

Instead of bleeding I’ld take pet damage on crit – Mach 4 for them as well.

Healing spring right choice in your build, HaO in a LB version. This version has an interesting damage to toughness profile. Not max damage but you build to 25 stacks fast might be in the right balance sweet spot of durability to damage potential to deliver your mach 4 payload reliably. And I like the multi opponent options much better than a LB option. Like your thinking on gear.

I’m not anti porker, I’ve had thieves get so mad at mine due to their KD use it’s not funny. But the pick up command resource allocation priority is I think set to low. Sometimes smooth as silk other times delayed delayed….that unpredictability sucks they all have nice tactical uses other than that.

Don’t fixate on Maul as you clearly aren’t. Path of scars, Monarchs leap, Maul create a great scenario of rotation swaps and flexibility with big MACH’s and as I’m sure you realized drawing it up creates your great MACH 3 time by not relying on the same CD.

determine signet might pop level on single targets by class and icons showing on target select. Glass builds need less.

I played a LB version decently but I know the better twitch skill PvP’rs could be really scary in these builds.

McWolfy.5924:

So you guys want to nerf burst, but rangel stay as an 1v1 class. There is no 1v1 situations and warriors, guardians will rule. They have good sustained dmg and heavy armors to survive.

So the question is how do we enhance our defense and in which lines right? And if burst is a problem due to power creep they should clearly know protection won’t cut it as vitality health pool creep is not a problem.

end self rooting of the skirmisher

Barrage and whirling defense should be made mobile. A sustain damage skirmisher certainly doesn’t self root as a defensive technique and running and shooting arcing arrows to a radius is alot easier than putting an arrow through the eye for a crit hit. Free the ranger let us run. I’m willing to risk losing damage if I strafe out of range (My bad there is a skill cap)

We’re skirmishers = mobility/not suicidal or fratricidal defense/sustained damage..

By fratricidal defense I mean pets should clean/consume/lick away conditions not transfer our conditions to themselves. The self sacrificing body blocks I get.

Chrispy.5641:

(Chrispy Ideas, part 1)
Changing Healing Skills and Elite Skills for more synergy

• The Purpose of this idea(proposal) is to make Healing Skills benefit more from traits, like the healing skills of other professions do. Our healing skills are some of the best in the game, yes, but, the inability to make them stronger through traits actually makes them weaker than other healing skills in the long run.

Changes and Benefits
- Heal as One and Rampage as One should be changed into Shout skills, so they can benefit from the following ::

• Shout Mastery - Reduce Cooldown. (make skills faster to access)
• Nature’s Voice - Regen and Swiftness. (makes skills less selfish and Ranger/Pet only)
• Superior Rune of the Soldier - Shouts remove a Condition. (More chances for condition removal, which the Ranger badly needs anyways)

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

- Troll Unguent should be changed into a Survival Skill, so it benefits from this ::

• Wilderness Knowledge - Reduced Cooldown. (Faster Access and more healing uptime)

Risks

• There is a possibility that healing skills would be too dependent on trait investment.
• After investing into traits, skills could be too powerful and unbalanced.

Discussion

• I had the idea for the ‘As One and healing spring skills, because those are the two skill types they most closely match. While shouts aren’t exactly in the best spot right now because of how pets work, I think those changes would go a long way.
• For Troll Unguent, I figured that making it a Wilderness survival skill made the most sense, but, its up for debate if anyone’s willing.

• This also ties directly into a future idea I will be posting that involves expanding the Wilderness Survival traits and Shout traits we have access to, to atleast 3 of each, (I will link this post since the two are related)

Like those ideas but healing spring as survival. takes survival skills to find a spring right. Plus aren’t traps triggered by enemies….

Troll ungeunt sounds like some salve so I agree survival makes sense but not all heals need a cd reduction. Heal as one could be improved and needs it over TU is all.

Good concepts

Chrispy.5641:

Arrys.7145:

Forzani.2584:

I agree with you Chrispy. Tweaks. That is all that is needed to make the Ranger legit. Look what happened to Warriors. Offhand sword added torment….increased passive healing and a 3 condition wipe on full bar of adrenaline.

Class went from laughing stock under powered to laughing stock over powered.

We all complain at times about GW2 but their balance is fairly close. A couple of small, well thought out changes is all that is needed.

Not a total redesign.

….best line of the week ….. The whole thing seems more like a corporate focus meeting rapid fire idea thread that’s just as effective as our rapid fire is now.

lol

As a sustain class our rapid fire should become like barrage/hunters call delayed damage airborn so I am already hitting with other skills or juking. A single target barrage basically. I need/want 2 layered damages in LB. Perceptual burst from the recipients side anyways.

And if we are pure sustain axe 5 shouldn’t lock down a skirmishers feet.

Whirling Defense should change completely. We do a cast time, then we have, a couple of Eagles flying at high speed around us, reflecting projectiles, dealing damage, etc, while we are able to continue running around using our other skills.

Yeah that’ld work. But their concept is clearly we are a mobile light infantry/cavalry. That means it’s nonsensical we would have developed fighting techniques barrage whirling defense that self cc. Doesn’t match their vision of us as skirmishers at all.

Forzani.2584:

I agree with you Chrispy. Tweaks. That is all that is needed to make the Ranger legit. Look what happened to Warriors. Offhand sword added torment….increased passive healing and a 3 condition wipe on full bar of adrenaline.

Class went from laughing stock under powered to laughing stock over powered.

We all complain at times about GW2 but their balance is fairly close. A couple of small, well thought out changes is all that is needed.

Not a total redesign.

….best line of the week ….. The whole thing seems more like a corporate focus meeting rapid fire idea thread that’s just as effective as our rapid fire is now.

lol

As a sustain class our rapid fire should become like barrage/hunters call delayed damage airborn so I am already hitting with other skills or juking. A single target barrage basically. I need/want 2 layered damages in LB. Perceptual burst from the recipients side anyways.

And if we are pure sustain axe 5 shouldn’t lock down a skirmishers feet.

People wade through the garbage and upvote the good ideas they should enable a down vote in that forum as well.

I sometimes wonder how many of us have pulled off a mach 4 open mighted to the gills the way people complain of burst there…

Layered damage rangers. We have skills you can preload the benefits of use them so you can use them instantly again on entering combat.

And please go look at my bladeturn concept for skirmishing. Anyone that played DAOC/Albion should know how powerful a cycling single hit misses shield can be defensively it’s built off an opening strike concept added to skirmishing to put defense in the upper tiers:). And if they want us to be balanced damage long fighters at modest damage ratios. Plus I know they can add aniother opening strike type skill if they did once.

And we do have sustain darn boy scout class advance prepping(SPirits, traps SIg hunt, sig bomb, porcine f2s etc), pre shooting(Barrage, Hunters call, pet f2’s) direct damaging(all our power) and backloading (Pet plus conditions/condition on crits), it needs a unique defense worthy of the eagle scout who plans the coordination of that layering.

here was my thought once it was clear they were leaning defensive sustain. I believe we need more defensives in the upper lines.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/16#post3692039

not saying it’s great (overpowered perhaps depending on timing and build).

Making vitality give us more health since they admit powercreep, seem to say we do need help, and MOAR DPS isn’t the answer.

They might even want to consider adding class specific stat options to balance out rangers, elementalists and engineers as I think they feel we are the sustain crowd.

I’ll take power/condition/toughness as powercreep severely degrades vitality value.

DragonFlu.7314:

Specific Game Mode
PvP
Proposal Overview
Changing Empathic Bonds to be more active
Goal of Proposal
Give the player access to more active condition removal.
Proposal Functionality
Change Empathic Bonds so the pet takes away 2-3 conditions when called back (hitting F3) on a 10 sec cd. Also, as a quality of life change, it would be awesome to be able to see how many seconds we left on trait cooldowns.
Associated Risks
Rangers must learn to where the F3 key is. Jokes aside, this would mean the player must look at his conditions to decide the best time to use the condi-cleanse, but forgetting to send the pet back out to fight (F1) may get the ranger into sticky situations… At the very least, it should be more engaging then how the Empathic Bonds currently works.

Second associated risk – Masters Bond impact
Third associated risk Degrades performance of NON BM bunkers
Fourth associated risk -
The feel we are underperforming but are reticient to increase our damage which means taking a passive skill of high defensive importance and making it player activated becomes an effective nerf to ranger effectiveness.

While I personally like some more active such a change would only make sense to me in the context of other defensive enhancements as well.

Within the context of the limitations they have outlined for us it is a nerf that supports only BM builds.

However if it retained it’s exiting function and when the pet was sent away the going away pet cleaned two conditions. AKA you got the passive, and could trigger the active on swap – the must have defensive would be even stronger but not a nerf.

Perhaps I misunderstood your exact intent

Allie Murdock.8152:

We’re seeing that power creep is a big problem in the game right now, so bringing the Ranger up to snuff would only exacerbate that. When we do balance patches, we like to look at every class and where they are at so we can balance appropriately throughout.

Of course, it can be hard to account for certain things when doing these patches, which is why we’re trying to do the patches less frequently so we can properly gauge what needs to be done (that’s not to say that we won’t hotfix any major issues that arise).

I would note the defensive concept I posted at the link below would assist in combating power creep in PvP contexts possibly limiting any damage nerfs one might consider for other classes. Provided the ability to share the bubble was implemented. The bubble could cause a button masher vs skilled players burst to be completely lost. Skilled players pop them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/16#post3692039

I would encourage my fellow rangers to focus on defense/survivability outside the bunker lines. We are clearly being told we don’t want to raise damage. They clearly recognize we have an issue and the flip side of damage is survivability to deal your sustain by limiting mitigating your opponents damage. We are clearly being told MAJOR changes to pets are too intensive/complex and to take our pet based aspect ideas to another thread.

*Think of our damage capacity and what level of additional defense for us and our pet would make That damage level viable and improve pets. *

I have never seen any gaming company give such clear feedback to help us as players to brainstorm what might be acceptable improvements. Closest I’ve seen is the old DAOC class leads. Unparalleled opportunity, don’t miss it on a single minded I need BIG NUMBERZ to counter BIG NUMBERZ dynamic. I get it but we aren’t getting that. How do we counter the BIG NUMBERZ of our opponents and share that ability around us to become group friendly.

We don’t get to choose their balance image we must work within it

Kal Spiro.9745:

Allie Murdock.8152:

I realize that many classes have high burst right now, but our intent is to limit power creep as much as possible. Just because the Ranger’s damage is more spread out, doesn’t mean it does less damage than the burst of other classes. Does that make sense?

For example: One class could, in the span of 30 seconds, do 15k damage in say 5-10 seconds, but then their burst skills go on cooldown so they have to wait out the rest of the time before they can try again. A sustained class should be able to do that same amount of damage in that same amount of time, but the damage is more spread out (hence sustained). This can be better in certain situations, and allows for the sustained class to fill a hole in a team comp.

I’m not saying this is a perfect system or that it’s even fully functional in the game, I’m just trying to explain why doing burst shouldn’t necessarily be better than doing sustained damage. It depends on the situation.

We also know that some classes right now are better at burst than others, and those are things that we look to address in balance patches so there isn’t a surplus of any one class.

In order for this to be a reasonable situation there needs to be more to the game than DPS beats all. Currently that’s the game. If you can do 15K instantly, then you are far more desired than someone who can do 15K eventually.

I love the ranger, and I love the design of the Ranger. I don’t mind being slow to kill things because I know that I can outlast a mob, but so what? Mobs are stupid and that’s me on my own. In a group, the group doesn’t want to have to wait for me. Against another person it doesn’t matter if I can survive their burst, because they can definitely survive my lack of burst and then run away.

What if we had a tool that could avoid that 15k instant on us in certain scenarios beyond evade capacity from unskilled players and with adequate investment could share that ability?

Prysin.8542:

Aegael.6938:

Taushullu.6180:

Going back to traps:

Another solution would be to simply increase the direct damage component of traps (could be anywhere between 50-200%) and making them scale better with current skirmishing stats that way. This would also make them more viable choice for power oriented builds.

I really like the idea of giving more direct damage to traps. Just this one change would open up a new playstyle of power/traps rather than just condition/traps.

power trapper would be crazy awesome. However it may turn out to be too strong,

Power condition trappers with carrion lack only a means of more reliable survivability to be fully viable. I say this from experience as it’s what I’ve settled into since returning to the game. LB Sword/X 10,30,30,0,0 has potential but armor to health ratio makes it glass whose defense isn’t enough with the stat combo’s available to sustain. It works off condition/power/ (Crit/toughness/vitality) – currently survival is positioning and opponent finding you when their health is low enough your traps going boom when they close panics them and you clean up.

I proposed a detailed bubble shield along an opening strikes concept in skirmishing that properly balanced may create that survivability so whittling works. If we can’t go damage we must enhance survivability which goes back to being forced into 30 wilderness. If you want to check my posts.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Wow I was on the right track focusing back to defense as our problem in the upper tiers. Note: I personally agree that’s a fine balance model provided you can enhance survivability of both the ranger and pet(Helps band aid pet issues might even fix them entirely if we can keep DPS pets up to deal the damage they already can deal).

In fact what always attracts me to ranger like classes is that model but everyone gets the defensive values wrong. Would love to see them gotten right.

A whittling ranger must have a tool to force his opponent to whittle in the skirmishing line or they and pet die to fast for sustained to work

Have read full discussion Yes

Specific Game Mode
effectively all

Restatement of Ranger Problem

It’s our lack of effective defense in the upper lines Spvp – Tpvp non bunker issue
It’s our lack of a non-redundant group benefit

WvW – S&TPVP – It’s not damage it’s only 1 line having a powerful GM Defensive trait and that the defensive benefits of pets don’t exist in group PvE, pvp aspects of game.

evidence of power of defensive traits making rangers functional
Success of multiple tank builds BM, Spirit, etc….
Pet menagerie Body Block Benefits

When we get more survivable we get effective.
A way to share that survivability if it is unique provides group desirability(needs availability in power builds.)

Proposal Overview
<add a buff similar to opening strikes to skirmishing> Our aura spirit aspect etc…unlike opening strike it opens in conjunction with the 15 point trait in skirmishing – not instantly available or freely available balance purposes.

Skirmishing – Aspect of the Wind – You and your pet avoid the next attack against you – consumes it of course.

At the GM trait level both GM traits create an opportunity to reproc the aspect on you with a delay of 3-5 seconds between potential reprocs on crit. MoC recharges on daze/stun, Traps reproc on crit (traps direct damage crits but is small and worthless, not after this a driver of a bubble shield proc and weapon crits now have great value to trap builds of the mixed power/condition or pure condition variety)

Our while wielding an axe skill is highly subpar but it is an AOE weapon. I would suggest it be changed from +10% crit damage to -

Honed Axes change becomes

Share the Wind
Share your aspect of the wind with those around you while wielding an axe in mainhand or offhand.

Mainhand – trap builds condition based great benefit but need the GM trigger to cycle benefit on crit.

Offhand – Sword/Axe in a dungeon setting share aspect of the wind on crit around me.

Control of Power Risk

Bladeturns are powerful defensive abilities however the games condition power system somewhat mutes that. i.e. condition damage once applied keeps ticking but the aspect would prevent condition applicaiton on missed hits.

Can it be countered by skill
From a competitive PvP aspect yes. You can see the buff on ranger add a visual that clues in people, use a weak attack to pierce the wind followed by stun etc…..

Numbers ovewhelm blade turns and underlying glass armor values make you melt. Good 1v1 not overpowered if timing of reproc potential is set right.

Weaknesses of ranger and pet it counters
Pets get better defensively avoiding an attack entirely pve and spvp benefit only real powerful a full 30 in skirmishing however.

You can bring a unique group benefit via the shared aspect and if traited 30 skirmishing. More powerful in a trap build than MoC as MoC has better burst. (enabling differentiation of scope of benefit based on offensive threat)

Rangers soft CC’s don’t do so well against all the leaps closers etc… Making those miss on opening attack which this skill would makes rangers initially slippery. However a small ranged shot to pierce quick charge gets through.(skill counter)

Final Benefit
Nerfs happen to overpowered attacks that leave people feeling helpless more damage is always risky. More defense makes your existing damage acceptable and functional. I need time on target to damage ratio.

Final Note
I’m a more power LB trap condition/power oriented ranger. While I know an Aspect of the land would be great in Wilderness survival and I expect it should be an apply torment for extra damage I think the heavy bunker players would be better suited at an aspect discussion of any other lines and what traits. I think the combo of Precision sharing plus bubble/blade turn sharing in a power build makes an awesome PvE group benefit.

A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to also whittle

Badly formatted could’t get right ignore delete.

Karl McLain.5604:

mtpelion.4562:

Wilderness experts should be masters of poisons. Therefore, Rangers should have the most potent poisons available.

Great point here and I agree. I would be awesome to see a way to increase poison potency for the Ranger and it’s something we’ve been talking about internally as well. We’ll keep looking into it and see if there’s something that can happen here.

Aren’t thieves poisons while survivalists are cure experts….Both depending on line?

Allie Murdock.8152:

Angela Ranna.5638:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Many of you have suggested removing traps from the Skirmishing line. It seems the primary reason for this is because it is the crit line while traps are primarily focused on conditions.

Given the idea behind skirmishing (for Ranger, we expect them to be able to survive longer while whittling their opponent down), would it maybe make more sense to leave the traps there and perhaps swap the stats with a different line?

However you would then lose the on-crit drive that the skirmishing tree has. And where would the crit stats go then? Marksmanship might make sense but then our trees would look almost identical to thieves in stats, which may or may not be a good thing. Wilderness Survival would be a natural choice for the PvP meta, but wouldn’t make much sense for other content.

Not that it’s a bad idea, just playing devil’s advocate for a second.

Yeah, it would also mess up a bunch of builds. I spoke with the guys on this one and they aren’t super happy with the skirmishing line in general either.

Honestly my disatisfaction in the upper lines is achieving any survivability while using them. Too glass. AKA the whittling is dependent on that in WvW where the pet can’t act as a damage shield as they do in PvE.

Indeed a condition trap build forced into skirmishing feels awkwards as you know you could be MORE survivable elsewhere.

If a key concept of us is whittler more Ranger survivability traits in the upper lines seems a must. Lots of soft CC but everyone leaps hops skips and dances past them anyways in WvW SPVP as cleanses spam everywhere. Or make me really happy Blade turns make a revival and rangers get them in skirmishing(replacing honed axes). OK that was another game great skill for a whittler damage dealer tho. Of course there would be a lot of non trap throwing trap builds….

See lots of interesting ideas that could develop into something. However my focus has been on thinking about the pet/ranger relationship. Decide what improvements can be done there then think about trait changes that synergize. I don’t expect miracles in interface(A stay please) and I’m sure some of my specific ability wishes are balance wise over the top. Key really is the concept of effectively adding an aura to the ranger that interfaces differently with different pets(enabling PvE, WvW, and SPvP enhancements by pet choice In some ways it makes the pet a killable mini-signet.

Aura of the Ranger (Inherent ability of rangers that interfaces with pets)

For consideration I would break the pet’s out as follows(More philosophical direction PvE, WvW,PvE direction than specific ability) and there would be a pet benefiting and ranger benefiting(synergistic) effect. The ones included are examples I find relevant and are generally designed around problems I have encountered in specing traiting etc….

1) Ursine, Support tank role, added passive ability from the rangers aura when the ranger is within 2k of bear. (bear: XX% chance to heal on hit(self), XX% chance on being hit to absorb the next attack on the ranger)

2) Moa’s – Support Buffing Pet – added passives from aura
a. Moa: Immune to AOE/Cleave attacks; Ranger: Boons on the pet are shared with the ranger.
i. Generally this is a PvE pet and the design of this interaction lets the Moa be in a DPS clump transferring boons from the clump to the ranger enabling the ranger to be outside the clump potentially. As the MOA is one of those pets that is damage worthless the immunity to cleave/aoe really shouldn’t impact PvP much.
ii. This is a powerful ability but it may be enough to create a role for ranger archers in PvE not in the clump.

3) Spiders – Offensive/CC Debuff pet
a. As both a ranged pet and a CC pet the spider already gets decent usage for good reason. As a pet needing less improvement offensively and with spiders and venom being synonymous.
i. (spider: Removes Poison/Weakness on self: Ranger: Removes Poison from ranger every 10 seconds.) –

4) Feline – Offensive pet bleeds and crits is what I think of so:
a. Feline: XX% chance on crit cause bleeding Ranger: Every 10 seconds remove(NOT TAKE) bleeding from ranger.

5) Devourer – Ranged tank/ damage I guess so
a. Devourer: XX% chance to gain retaliation on hit Ranger: Devourer devours one condition on ranger every 10 seconds

6) Drake – Survivable AOE damage and Blasts…
a. Drake: XX% chance on next attack to trigger a flame blast Ranger: Drake consumes burning from the ranger every 10 seconds.

7) Porcine pets – Hmm tank utility offensive and defensive debuffing and a KD GAH!!!! Reality is the pet needs more KD or snare to be able to deliver any functional damage somewhat reliable so
a. Porcine: XX% Chance on hit create muddy terrain: Ranger: consumes immobilize on ranger every 10 seconds.

8) Canine – The crowd control pet but dogs are also guides so –
a. Canine: XX% chance when hit crit on next attack Ranger: Increase duration of immobilize 10%

9) Birds – DPS swiftness blindness – don’t stay on target to well
a. Bird: % Chance on hit cause confusion (A way to deal damage when you aren’t in contact based on what target does) Ranger: Increase movement speed 15

From this base traits in BM could be adjusted to share rangers benefit from pet around them although I’ld argue pet benefits to the aura should cross trait lines, 1 level back to pet as well higher up with group. Appreciate the opportunity and remember the abilities represent in my mind more the focus of the pet pve, wvw, Spvp.

Would also love a way to convert my vigor shared with pet to a protection boon on the pet as pets can’t dodge and receive no benefit from my vigor capacity.

Thank you.

SilvSonic.2691:

what most people have said in this thread are correct. if u like using LB in PvP u’ll love it for WvW even better. it has much more use in WvW and is a dominant power weapon in WvW. i tend to run on outskirts of zergs and picking off players as i see em. it works well for me when i do it. i always pack my LB anywhere i go but in dungeons it is utterly pointless to be using. as you are in fact missing out on a LOT of team buffs and your team is missing out on any buffs you may be able to give. since LB gets weaker the closer you target is it is best to run a sword or GS at all times with it. as a result in those team scenarios my bow is the first thing off the bar. so if you really want to run LB in dungeons make sure you’re with players who don’t mind you going off into range.

I was surprised how well it works in a trap build because of all it’s positioning tools. Threw together a cheap carrion armor rampager/carrion jewelery and rampager weapon set. Having 1200ish condition and 2600-2700 power (No defense aside from positioning and dodge to speak of if you don’t count a full load of traps on your position is quite enjoyable.

Agree with what Fluffball said. I use longbow predominantly in both SPVP and WvW. It’s better in WvW but you need the sword to pair with it or greatsword IMHO.

Ideal probably not but hey I enjoy it.

Traps/LB/Sw/Torch or Sword/Axe or Sword/Horn is my usual poison in WvW and ZERKING maul crush on occasion.

solrik.6028:

Forzani.2584:

solrik.6028:

I noticed you are using spiders!

They are great for close quarters ranged combat because you can keep them between you and the enemy. Control skills will land on the spider instead of you.

If he walks through the spider to your side, you do the same.

I have never heard of that. Is that because they are a ranged pet? …and only applies to control skills and not damage?

Yes, exactly. They are ranged and are less likely to move around like melee pets do.

It’s really fun when you see a War/Guard knock your pet around instead of you. Gives a little bit of ‘Evil laugh’ feeling.

With a little bit of practice, it has more or less the same effect as “Protect Me!” depending on who you’re fighting. It is really worth doing even if it’s one more thing to keep track of but it pays off by giving you better survivability!

Doesn’t help much against basic-attacks though that cleave and splash…. but on the other hand, why would anyone evade basic-attacks?

Yep they make a nice barricade you can shoot through and only piercing enemies can shoot back.

It’s why I like to have a spider with longbow out. f1 position behind spider between target and lay into them. Big melee pets and knocking a ranged charachter against a wall creates the same effect as well. Before I left the game I used devourers but their damage now….

BondageBill.4021:

rpfohr.7048:

Since you take 10 points in NM for Nature’s Protection, how do you deal with people to decide to just run away? I am having a hard time keeping people in combat if they decide to split and can get out of spike trap range.

I would imagine the chill on axe and cripple on dagger.

Top 10 reasons players feel regen/tanky builds are superior….

10. Game design – limited active skills in game mean much of defense is passive while offensive firepower is similarly limited in big burst button pushes.

9. Pet Damage was factored into our damage capacity but defensively we seem balanced much like other players – no pet penalty and properly used they act as ranged defense, fears immobilizes KD etc.

8. Our defensive lines concentrate defensive ability so you can get most of the defensive bells and whistles in a single build regen tough prot regen and max vigor recharge for active dodging…..

7. Dual Weapon sigils

6. Ability to stack alot of passive regen and TU which is a front end heal is eating it’s CD while healing the damage as you take it.

5. # evades on weapons

4. Max defense builds synergize with condition application

3. Condition Meta of the game and our best condition remover being 30 points in and considered indispensable by many.

2. Plenty of Poison + cover conditions to mess up the other bunker we are fighting because the meta of game supports bunkers.

1. Because players who die after a 30-45 second fight feel like it was a fair fight and they aren’t pointless.

Might want to consider using Superior Sigil of Torment to cover your other conditions and make cleansing your condition overload damage and poison more difficult if you don’t want to go with more bleed stack option. And if it isn’t cleansed you still get damage out of it.

/assist

4 guys hit me with multi stacked bleeds I cleanse all their damage is gone.

4 guys target me at once with direct damage – melted…..

Direct damage works better with teamwork as it is not limited by stacking rules or time. It’s force multiplicative.

But yeah individually conditions are powerful at the size of tpvp and health pools makes it highly advantageous.

Darkie.3582:

Bredin.5368:

Jamoke.1523:

This is a repley back to Fluffy…just because you can kill uplevels and noobs doesn’t make you good. I’d like to see your Ranger run away from a thief who actually knows what he’s doing.

I’m just curious…why would a ranger run away from a thief???

OP: I play this build in WvW and have had very good success solo roaming and small group roaming. You can switch a few utilities and provide decent zerg support without being a rally bot.

Build: Evasion Tank

Hey, thinking of trying out this build and was wondering what kind of armor/ rune combos do you use, also wep stats/runes thanks

It’s in their link. Knight armor weapons and a mix of zerk/knight jewelery – click the helm…..

And since you necro’d a 2 month old thread. I’ld add 10,30,30,0,0 LB – SW/torch trap build for small group roaming in carrion with some rampager elements worked in. Quite fun in EOTM. Pinch points and long falls. Not really a 1v1 build but great area denial small group fighter. As for LB with trap – you must stay alive to drop the next round. Stealth KB aoe snare take some bleed on crit.

They really have to improve the pet/ranger relationship and as AI won’t be changing find ways to do it that are implementable. Having that solution as a base you can then rework the traits/utilities weapon skills to the extent needed wrapped around that rebalancing.

My preferred solution at this time.

Aura of the Ranger (Inherent ability of rangers that interfaces with their pets creating a mini signet effect)

1) Ursine, Support tank role, added passive ability from the rangers aura when the ranger is within 2k of bear. (bear: XX% chance to heal on hit(self), XX% chance on being hit to absorb the next attack on the ranger) – So my ursine pets are now a minor rejuvenation effect and random limited protect me chance.
2) Moa’s – Support Buffing Pet – added passives from aura
a. Moa: Immune to AOE/Cleave attacks; Ranger: Boons on the pet are shared with the ranger.
3) Spiders – Offensive/CC Debuff pet
a. As both a ranged pet and a CC pet the spider already gets decent usage for good reason. As a pet needing less improvement offensively and with spiders and venom being synonymous.
i. (spider: Removes Poison/Weakness on self: Ranger: Removes Poison from ranger every 10 seconds.) –
4) Feline – Offensive pet bleeds and crits is what I think of so:
a. Feline: XX% chance on crit cause bleeding Ranger: Every 10 seconds remove(NOT TAKE) bleeding from ranger.
5) Devourer – Ranged tank/ damage I guess so
a. Devourer: XX% chance to gain retaliation on hit Ranger: Devourer devours one condition on ranger every 10 seconds
6) Drake – Survivable AOE damage and Blasts…
a. Drake: XX% chance on attack to trigger a flame blast Ranger: Drake consumes burning from the ranger every 10 seconds.
7) Porcine pets – Hmm tank utility offensive and defensive debuffing and a KD GAH!!!! Reality is the pet needs more KD or snare to be able to deliver any functional damage somewhat reliably so
a. Porcine: XX% Chance on hit create muddy terrain: Ranger: consumes immobilize on ranger every 10 seconds.
8) Canine – The crowd control pet but dogs are also guides so –
a. Canine: XX% chance when hit crit on next attack Ranger: Decrease duration of CC effects on ranger 15%
9) Birds – DPS swiftness blindness – don’t stay on target to well
a. Bird: % Chance on hit cause confusion (A way to deal damage when you aren’t in contact based on what target does) Ranger: Increase movement speed 15 (With a birds eye view you get the best route planning)

Such a structure would seem to improve pets while leaving them unchanged in the PvE environment except in perhaps some linked mob patrol scenarios.

In addition as the Boon Vigor does nothing for pets (as they have no active defense) but rangers spec multiple ways to create and in many instances share vigor with the pets it may also be desirable for the aura to have a benefit across pets (Pet: Vigor is converted to Protection) I would ideally add to that (& removes conditions from the pet). Our condition control is dumping our conditions on our pet via empathic bond. This forces us to use our only heal with condition removal to save the pet from that. Enabling active vigor creation to do that would enable the ranger taking the heal trait for vigor generation and using either of our other 2 heals to also manage condition removal on the pet.

Aioros.4862:

i’ve seen someone in there saying rangers are too good because of overpowered AI and spirits. Now i’m afraid ranger will be nerfed.

I’ve never seen a class balance of an online game that did not include some things we the player base consider nerfs. And I’ve been playing them since they were text based muds and al gore hadn’t yet claimed to invent the internet because most people had no clue what it was.

One can rest assured there will be changes we dislike whenever our time comes.

SafiMoyo.5130:

Durzlla.6295:

I’m pretty sure I out ranger as #2, but that’s cause I play an ele and know they need a little more love than us… But it’s pretty unanimous that ranger and ele are the 2 that need most work

Curiously, as someone who doesn’t play an ele, why is that? I /cheer inside when an ele joins my team. Those fire fields, blast finishers, ice bows and such assist me in melting everything on the screen. They seem absolutely amazing and I’d take them any day over… everything but a warrior. Strictly speaking, PvE and WvW.

Their problem seems to be the same problem as ranger. Their class mechanic lends itself to analysis of their strength potential with other people around. SO many fields and theoretically alot of finishers if you count in utilities. Creates a very high theoretical capacity not functionally realized.

Our’s lends itself to analysis of our potential with the pet around operating at a theoretical capacity realized on the side of a fixed location barn.

Warriors – a bonus attack type with a recharge timer
thiefs – CD steal of an ability from another class
Necro’s – A different attack form on a timer/timer
Guardians – again a simple ability plus active on 3 virtues
Mesmer – 4 different attack options

Engi – suffers a mechanic somewhat akin to ranger/elem in broad variable benefit through kits. There is a reason they and elementalists get 1 weapon then their mechanic alterations. It still leads to a much more complex analysis of their potential. The majority of classes including rangers have the variable interaction of 2, 5 ability weapon sets plus 3 utilities, plus 1 heal and 1 elite.

Elementalists and engineers have 1 weapon set of 5 slots plus 1 heal skill that may open another 5 interactions plus 3 utility skills that also have the potential to open up another 5 slots each plus an elite that can open up another 5 slots. That results in alot of potential interactions to theorize worst case scenario potential on….. potential access to 30 active triggered effects in 1 single layout.

Most of us get 10 (weapon skills), 3 utilities, 1 class, 1 elite. Of Course ranger pets and the fact we could be running one of many add variability to the rangers performance envelope as well.

Fundamentally elementalists, rangers and engineers have more variables(skills) that can be activated at player control at a given time making balancing for them harder.

It is no surprise we are the three that need it most.

We often get mired into the DPS/Range of attack etc debate on the utility of pet damage. As the pet combat system is linked to AI and therefore impacts every facet of the game including PvE balancing difficulty any significant changes to the damage profile of pets seems unlikely.

So the question comes as pets and their damage potential in an ideal modeled scenario are functionally incorporated to limit our total damage envelope, what benefits other than pure damage could be derived from pets that may free up a bit more damage potential for the ranger while maintaining defensive capacity. Preferably something that would also provide benefits to groups. My list of potential fix areas would be.

1) Enhance benefit of the pet to the ranger (Increasing inherent defense for example free’s me up to make offensive utility allocations)
2) Make the ranger pet relationship “symbiotic” not a parasitic warlock necromancer style link. We can be locked from our pet via death for 60 seconds is penalty enough.

In regards to #1

I think the simple not so simple to implement answer might be to marry the nature spirit mechanic in a limited way with pets in the form of pet aura’s that provide limited benefits. That is we have the elemental spirits land earth air water but we also with a wolf pet have a connection to the spirit of the wolf which say procs the chance to remove immob/blind on attack. When we switch from the wolf to our lynx we then become connected to the spirit of the cat (Proc remove bleeding chance) etc….

Currently to manage conditions it’s hard to find builds that aren’t 30 point invested. What if every pet had an aura that helped remove (not transfer) one condition type.

Say cats get an aura (Shared only with the ranger) that causes a 30% chance to remove bleeding on attack with a 10 second refresh.

Perhaps drakes get burning.

Spiders Poison -

Dog’s – Perhaps immobilize or blindness

Now the support pets – perhaps their aura is a bit more supportive. Not only does it remove a condition but converts it to a boon.

Making pets symbiotic through the ranger.
OK for 15 points in NM we can link the pet to any boon the ranger receives…… I’ld suggest there should be a base linkage by default of one helpful boon(swiftness) and one defensive boon(Regen/retal) that automatically share with your pet when the ranger receives it. ideally I’ld divide it by pet type. When connected with the spirit of the cat with a cat pet out say the ranger shares might/regen by default. Connected with an ursine pet share prot/retaliation by default etc….. Probably way to much work.

Vigor and pets – OK we rangers can create alot of vigor but pets while they share the boon if traited get no benefit. Vigor as it applies to pets and any other AI creature should double the CD recharge rate of the pets attacks. Not a factor in PvE for mobs nice improvement for rangers and pets in cycling support or offensive abilities.

Finally modify the sacrifice pet for your self interest utilities. My pet shouldn’t be taking conditions. Removing them, converting them heck even one that transfers a limited type of condition would be nice, ok extra nice. Conversely if you are going to give our pets a sacrifice mechanic as our default condition defense then from a balance perspective there must also be an option to transfer the conditions off our pet preferably to our opponent just as the necromancer self sacrifice was balanced. granted our sacrifice risk is lesser just the pet not our own life so a more limited complete removal of conditions with limited transfer option would seem more appropriate but at least removal of conditions on the pet should be worked in somewhere as an availability. Personally I’ld say work it in a couple places for spec variety. In natural healing – additional ability on the talent of – conditions taken by the pet as a result of <Insert skill>, <Insert Skill> etc will be removed from pet over time.

Part of our inherent problem is we are balanced as a single entity but then to incorporate as a functional entity we get no real inherent symbiosis between ranger and pet.

1. Ranger
2/3. Elem/Engineer

Solandri.9640:

The devourers used to have better DPS, better toughness, same vit, meaning they were almost always the better choice. But their attack rate was slowed down during the pet rebalance patch a few months back. Their DPS is now about 80% that of spiders, 90% for the Lashtail if you use F2.

All Anet had to do was buff the spiders’ vit to achieve a good balance between devourers and spiders. But by also nerfing devourer DPS the two pets have swapped places. Spiders are now better than devourers in every way except toughness (i.e. devourer is better if you expect a lot of AOE healing).

So thats what happened to my devourer…..

Flashbacks to leveling. I’ve been trying to get a layered damage build triangulating in from the power side(longbow stubborn). Sort of realized our straight damage in the moment is sort of weak but we can use alot of cast time getting damage down in front of combat during and then leave it ticking on disengagement.

The one thing we do better than any other class is pre-cast hidden damage so we are free to micromanage our weapons while fighting. Which is a good thing because micromanage and sword go together.