Guild Wars 2

Wintel.4873:

The way condition stacks in PvE has been broken since the game’s release.

I think it’s been designed entirely around 5man content…with any more than 5 people attacking 1 thing the conditions stop making sense.

True but think how much stronger conditions are in a 1v1 situation because they balanced their damage profile around this smaller school of application than say if they had assumed a 20 man raid and condition damage potential and where they wanted content difficulty.

That they limited stacking is why it works as a primary damage type not some weak damage ad.

Alternative control methods would have been limit stacking by being much more stingy with which classes could stack what conditions and say limiting bleeding to rangers poison to thieves fire to elementalists so class scarcity could act as the limiter on multi condition stacking.

Sucks to be limited on stacking but would suck more to have classes limited to 1 condition damage or the power of conditions be such in individual application so weak they didn’t need stack limitations to control damage potential.

Fluffball.8307:

Zerker LB is very suboptimal in PvP. It is outstanding in WvW though. I was talking about roaming builds.

While I don’t disagree it’s sub optimal at a competitive level. Functionally at the level most players play at you can easily go zerk LB and win far more matches and 1v1 fights than you lose. At least partly because there are already so many bunkers out there a damage build even a sub optimal one adds value to a group. In many scenarios more value than another bunker would simply because a faster kill supporting one bunker leads to a faster rotation to assist the other bunker. In short it’s very rare you enter a group short bunkers to sit in a circle making sub optimal damage skillsets viable when played in support of the team.

And because you are completely reliant on active defense it makes playing it fun and rewarding.

That Keen Edge addition today is interesting as it’s a trait that triggers a utility. They seem to be implying the CD on the traits activation may be getting linked to the CD reduction benefit perhaps? Only reason I can think to link the trait as a survival skill.

They aren’t running from the bear. They are trying to get a line around the bear to shoot the ranger through……

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

My concern is that the distance between you and your foe can be closed within seconds because of shadow steps and invuln/dodge leaps. Once your enemy is in point blank range your longbow is useless. Even if you use point blank shot your enemy will just leap or shadowstep back.

Utilities such as traps and muddy terrain are nice for snare , but they dont last long enough. I thought utilities were supposed to impact the battle?

The problem isn’t as much the utility skills available to harden a target area it’s only having 3 utility slots.

If building max damage I need signets and MoC and signets are in the utility slots as a result.

However, a majority of our utilities are designed to support and be functional with a sniping ranged ethos.

Traps – Obviously power doesn’t get condition damage but it does get condition duration. Frost trap and poison trap frost trap being my preference are not pleasant surprises on leaping to melee although their healing penalty is more preferred late rin the fight.

Spirits – provide both a beneficial on attack benefit and their active. So I can have protection and a personal muddy terrain sphere or + damage and a chilling AOE to trigger when someone closes, Or perma swiftness and a lightning bolt to trigger when someone closes. The mechanics of how the spirits apply their proc chance even support the ability to use them stationary requiring you to only be in their sphere of influence for @ 2 seconds of every 10 to pick up the proc chance buff.

Even guard as a shout can be used to install a stealthed protected pet arrow shield between you and your target(And since you probably don’t have condition removal up to full speed that can be a very good thing).

Utilities are present that do support sniping. Because of the game meta (I MUST have condition removal and stun break….) well the slots to carry and use it, not so much.

However a majority of our utilities support use before we ever initiate an attack and provide benefits during the fight if we use them that way.

Valentin.2073:

Kovu.7560:

Rangers work in wvw like ninjas work in the ongoing ninjas vs. pirates debate.
If it’s 1 ranger vs 1 somebody else, the ranger does well. However, if there are a bunch of rangers and a bunch of somebody elses, the rangers will get destroyed.

Rangers are just not great in group fights. 1v1 they’re fine, but they lack zerg utility.

~ Kovu

I disagree. I use a zerker build (just exotic armor pieces and ascended trinkets) and i make sure i kill more people from the zerg before i get killed. it’s all about positioning. it’s not that easy but with practice can still be done. btw, i played tpvp in a really long time before i tried wvw.

rangers rock!!!

On a kill ratio basis I’ld think it would be pretty hard to die more than you kill in WvW as a power ranger.

Zerg Surfing the stragglers cut from the herd. Ohh fierce scavenger.

But definitely not charging the zerg.

So good in WvW may be a matter of perception. Not feeling like I’m winning the war or anything but definitely some fun battles.

Power builds have definitely improved a bit since I left over a year ago. More to go but it’s markedly better.

And bunker builds are aplenty.

No pets don’t survive zergs well but spiders make handy mobile arrow and bullet shields.

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets run through a little scenario that you’d have to build into the Ranger just by removing pets (ignoring the very obvious problem with pets not working).

Ranger is jumped by a thief and immediately tells his wolf to attack the thief. .5 seconds later, the wolf lunges onto the thief knocking him down.

As the Thief begins to get up, the Ranger instructs his wolf to howl and Fears the thief before he can respond by dodging.

As the Thief runs in fear the Ranger swaps pets to his hound and tells it to attack the Thief.

At the same moment the Fear ends, the hound lunges and knocks the Thief down.

Just as the Thief is about to recover, the Hound howls immobilizing the Thief so they can’t move.

Throughout all of this until the very end you’re plinking away for 1.5k – 3k a second and at the very end you either knockback the Thief with your longbow to line up a swoop+hilt+maul or simply rapid fire knowing at this point the Thief has no option left but to stealth and your arrows will track through and still hit.

Now we might scoff at this, but I can pull this scenario off nearly 100% of the time in duals and roaming. Now granted this pales in comparison to what my Warrior is capable of with merely swinging a Hammer, but it’s still a hell of a lot to give up.

So whatever you have in store other than simply increasing our damage, it has to give me enough power to offset all that utility I lose as well.

But that’s not what the OP asked… lets suppose you did somehow manage to find someway to allow me to continue doing this with a stowed pet that also allowed me to do 30% more damage or something silly like that. Would I consider the class complete? No… as it stands the mere fact that this class doesn’t have good AE or burst means power, my preferred way to play this class, will never work no matter what happens to the pet or the ranger’s sustained damage.

Your post sort of points out the conundrum. When you use the pet as an added phased utility (AKA the pets impact on the state of an opposing player is more important than the damage done) Rangers need a pet. They are our variable utility function.

If you look at them as a pure damage add, well all of their AI problems lurch front and center.

In terms of correcting it. A zerk power build with 30% more DPS and still having 2 KD’s a fear and an imob = overpowered. OK massively overpowered.

A ranger with 30% more damage and absent those extra utilities = roadkill in most scenarios but brutal from a wall. 30% extra damage doesn’t make it easier to stay at range and lacking stability reliably once engaged without those KD’s and Imob’s you aren’t doing any better because you aren’t getting back to range and have lost your tool to reliably keep it without designating a utility slot to that goal.

If all we got from them was DPS balancing them without fixing them would be easy. A simple matter of our damage relative to theirs.

Xyonon.3987:

Greeeez^^

• Frost Spirit seems to be very strong and a huge adventage for the whole party. But the truth is that this only is correct because it seems to bug, right? It has no 10 sec CD, with wich it would be laughtable up. So do I play with a strong bugged skill or is it intended to be like this? Other spirits have the 10 sec CD tough.

Ty already for the answers greez ^.^

Probably meant to operate without an ICD. It at least has always lacked one and as a flat damage boost it automatically scales between weapons/classes builds at it’s default settings.

solrik.6028:

The main point was that it has no ICD.

But if you want to calculate damage…

Saying that it is less than 7% is wrong. The bonus is less than 7% only if you are constantly attacking something without pause.

It lives for 60s and a 60s fight is a very long one to be honest.

As a plus, one is more likely to use damaging skills while there is a damage buff instead of when there isn’t any.

The banner thing is correct but it also has (or can have) 80% fury up-time and 66% swiftness up-time. It can neither die or vanish by doing from other players.

I only created this thread to tell the people that there isn’t any ICD on FS. Some of them have been discussing about how bad it is because of ICD.

In my opinion, none of the spirits should have an ICD (or a very short ICD around 1 second) and their effects should be shorter. Another problem is that FS favors people with high rate of fire. Same for the other spirits but they aren’t that noticable

The ICD is to normalize benefit between weapons. Storm spirit doesn’t need one because it’s a percentage chance every attack of receiving the benefit and weapon damage to delay is already normalized to set weapon style damage ratios. It doesn’t overly benefit anything. One could argue that + base damage with how rangers work in glass builds crit and +crit damage is important to bigger hits with the slower weapons.

However at 35% proc chance in 100% combat uptime you notice at most 1 extra fire proc swiftness proc etc and it comes from a slower weapon getting a real bad RNG phase. At 70% chance every weapon will proc the benefit within their window of opportunity set by the ICD. At 35% the faster weapons in a 100% up combat scenario will get on occasion an extra swiftness or flame proc over a slower during the spirits duration. At 70% that change in data goes away and the ICD is having an even impact on slow and fast weapons.

If there was no ICD fire spirits and speed would be very stackable by the fast weapons.

Granted in the real world there isn’t 100% combat uptime so the difference between a 35% proc chance and 70% is noticable but total procs per cast…..You have to be bad to not get those off regardless of weapon.

In terms of reducing say the duration of the fire proc. No it’s about right otherwise it would be overly penalized by minus condition duration.

No ICD would create a large benefit for fast weapons one both swiftness and fire procs and protection proc uptime.

Ok one of things I wanted to do coming back was more than SPvP which means gearing out at 80 for an WvW/PvE experience. More the WvW but that seems to mean some PvE for gearing.

The quick option appears to be something like purchasing Order armor(Carrion stats) then modifying jewelry to shade power crit or condition toughness heal. And at least initially needing a set/spec that works if not ideally in PvE solo farming and PvE dungeon scenarios plus WvW. Obviously thats not one spec but one you can massage to meet different needs.

Seeing as WvW and PvE offers a bit more stat freedom with multiple pieces of jewelery I was thinking.

Carrion armor (Even split zerk and knight jewelry options.)
WvW – Roaming power/crit speed build modest condition bonus.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJARTnEVEYZkFWBBahgYpYP9pVYSsH8nRLyVw/lshmA-jkBBUJBKDtIasFTFRjVrET5SQWDLpA-w

Without respeccing traits that enables on the fly adjustments to a trap build(Down 200 condition damage from max and defense on a jewelry swap weapon change) or adding a 70% spirit to a more power crit build battlement or dungeon scenario in the more power/crit build.

Ideally for power active defense WvW I’ld probably only want 20 skirmishing and nothing in NM freeing 20 into BM for the pet. Power builds have definitely improved since I left or I got better at active defense.

Anyone have any experience with such a setup or recommend a better way to build out at 80. Took advantage of the tomes of knowledge(They really should publicize those better) for my last 20 levels so financing anything will be tight until I PvE more(least favorite activity). Leading to the 1 armor set to rule them all conundrum for now.

Sevans.4619:

Oh! One of my favorite things to discuss when I was playing fighting games competitively were character match-ups. It’d be GREAT to talk about Ranger versus ??? class match-ups.

Tips versus each class, our weaknesses, strengths, etc.

Would be a good opportunity to also discuss ranger builds. I’ld be partial to a ranger builds section. Not just FOTM “META” but some non-standard.

Run a poll the week before and do a build review the following week…. AKA Engage the audience and increase traffic while also ensuring the content is of interest.

The dev team should just tell the interface team to add an interface option cast aoe at my feet. Don’t waste class balance resources.

Substance E.4852:

Sube Dai.8496:

Detharos.3157:

Made a big complicated post, but what it comes down too.. power ranger is just weaker than condi ranger because it’s an ACTIVE play build in a meta that supports PASSIVE play builds. On condi ranger, you can launch 3-4 fire and forget attacks stacking 2000-3000/second ticks on your enemies and then focus entirely on evading and kiting while that just keeps ticking away hurting your enemies even though you’re running around with swoop and leaps. On power builds, you can either hurt your enemies or avoid attacks and kite… you cannot do both simultaneously like condition builds. Every time you attack you are exposed to danger, and because you must attack more than a condi build to pressure your foes, you are also exposed to more enemy attack and burst sequences for longer periods. When a consequential period where you are heavily damaged and most start kiting away happens, you are not pressuring your enemies simultaneously like condi.. which means your enemies if they get the better of you can pressure you a lot more while not worrying about their health bar when you are on the defensive. They have less need to watch their health bar when you are fleeing from them, whereas with a condi build they still have to worry about healing themselves and curing their conditions, and trying to time their heal to go off when they are not poisoned which they frequently are.

That coupled with the fact that condi just seems to scale better and that it ignores toughness means that even condition removal rich builds get hurt more by condition damage than physical damage reduction builds (via evade/invuln/protection/whatever) get hurt by physical damage.

In the end you get this stupid situation where many power rangers get screwed over because our pet doesn’t work, but because condition rangers are built so that the pet is not as much a key issue to them, they get in arguments with us that buffs and fixes to the pet will make them (And I say only them) OP and is consequently not fair for the class. Which is total bullkitten, pets could be fixed and then the condition output on the popular condition weapons could be reduced to accommodate for higher pet hit ratios. It’d be as simply as giving all melee pets an auto-casting distance closer skill like swoop and an attack combo on their auto attack that pounces like sword one while simultaneously reducing the numbers on the condition staples. Condi builds would still have the same damage, just delivered differently with the pet contributing more than before. Power builds would become more viable as the pet would be holding us back less with less grotesque miss ratios.

To bad there are as many brainless condi rangers as incompetent balance team members who don’t get that and have the same objections, so this class never gets anywhere on the forums.

I agree with what you’ve said, but I’d argue that the non-working pet and the high toughness/protection of enemies simply means that our power builds don’t do enough damage.

I mean even full glass rangers don’t hit that hard IMO, but maybe that’s because they can’t live long enough to get off their burst.

We don’t even have decent power build utilities that don’t require 30 marks to use.

Not true – survival has some nice utilities. However since every class can get high toughness through gear and that has a huge impact on how hard you hit them….. Being a kiting predator preying on squishies isn’t what it is in other games.

So the utilities marksmanship opens up are nice.

Akisame.9508:

You only mentioned the stuff that was added. How about mentioning all of the nerf’s we got, like Pet damage being nerfed, short bow damage being nerfed (and calling it an animation fix), Short bow being nerfed a second time for range. Endurance regen nerf, barrage damage nerf, and the list goes on. Nerf’s that the class does not need because we need help! Just the nerf’s I mentioned here already outweigh all the small decent stuff they did for the class. The acknowledgement that pets are broken and not working as intended but they refuse to fix it out of fear of breaking something else. Name me one other class who’s class mechanic is broken and ANet refuses to fix? And that the class mechanic is ‘suppose’ to be responsible for 30% of their damage which they are not receiving because of the broken class mechanic! Don’t take this as a personal attack, and if you did then I apologize as of now. I just get frustrated when I see people posting stuff on the ranger forum as making it seem that we’re doing good when in reality we are sub par compared to other classes, and yes, I know about other classes, I also have an 80 thief, 80 warrior, and 80 mesmer. I can kill more and die less with those three classes then I can with the ranger, and I play the ranger more then them.

Thanks for covering the negative adjustments. Don’t exactly recall weapon damage numbers off the top of my head so those changes aren’t obvious looking at a skill calculator, where oddly I have a very good memory for traits. Was hoping someone would chime in with what they were.

Some of them had also occurred before I left such as the ahem “animation fix” for SB. I do believe I mentioned the endurance regen change but wasn’t aware barrage had been adjusted. SB range also didn’t catch my attention and pet damage – like that’s ever been predictable. Guess they didn’t like 25 stack MB/sick em bombs?

Just trying to get a baseline for changes so my test specs don’t cover useless already covered territory. Honestly alot doesn’t seem to have changed. Spirit bunkers weren’t meta but they already worked. Have yet to determine if they are working any better.

Shouts finally got some reason to be listed as utilities you might even use more than 1 of and some of the power changes may be interesting.

They did get some of my wishlist. Controllable blast finisher, offhand axe getting a retaliation the pull an extra bonus. LB is better. MoC makes me want to break some piggies out and recycle some older power builds.

Forzani.2584:

This happens in every MMO in existence pretty much. The “elites”, re kitten wipes, take the top 3-4 classes that they believe are optimal for the most, and quickest success.

Say for instance that Warriors were the 4th best class for clearing dungeons. The elites are completely happy with Warriors and invite them to their groups all the time.

Then Anet decides to buff Rangers. They go a bit overboard and now Rangers are stronger than Warrior. Guess what happens now? Warriors are booted from groups and Rangers are added. Even though Warriors have proven they are more than capable of contributing in speed runs etc, now that Rangers are stronger, Warriors are relegated to 2nd class citizen.

That’s how the snobby elites operate. Nothing can be done about it.

tldr : There will only ever be the 3-4 favored classes for speed runs in dungeons. Those classes aren’t set in stone. They will change after each patch

The irony is this becomes more true with each generation of games. Go back to DAOC release and people really being locked into class and spec (with bad levelling curves as well) and the elite players pretty much ended up with what they ended up with for a group.

As gaming companies have become more casual friendly making leveling and skill trait adjustments easy and functionally meaningless the same “elite” players now expect people in precise specs and roles. Why? The game mechanics not only make it easy but the specs of the most efficient classes and numbers of the most efficient classes are such you can easily make groups from them so you can enforce a more perfect requirement.

In previous gaming generations while you might have many of the most efficient class respecing cost/time or complete inability to do so meant you took how they were speced and less desirable classes compared well to non ideal primary classes.

So efforts to make games more casual friendly have triggered the expectation people will do what’s best for the group. And in most games that means fewer not more places for the jack of all trades class (which also tends to attract the most individualistic players unwilling to change their play styles.)

Don’t blame the elitist players. They are simply behaving human. Find the easiest way to do something and repeat.

Anthony.7219:

I’d be interested in your comments on why my power ranger (posted in the build thread) won’t work. You might save me a lot of time and effort.

Go go power rangers?

I particularly enjoyed hitting with maul last night for 4500 and seeing the little asura turn tail and run.

Checked out your build. Power Shout I guess I’ll call it. Shouts weren’t too viable/used alot when I played previously. AKA other than protect me(defense) and sick em for pet burst builds.

Does “guard” stealth You and your pet or just the pet? Just adding up the opening strike auto crit resets in the build.

Sube Dai.8496:

Yes all of those things are new. However the state of the ranger is relatively unchanged. We have a few viable condition builds (trap, spirit, regen), but no power builds. Same problem as always. We can’t take the damage traits and have survivability.

That’s what burnt me out on the game. trying to find a survivable burst power build that didn’t involve pet bursting for me….. I simply can’t resist putting square pegs in round holes. Even back then a few power builds showed some promise but not enough….

Been gone @ a year and I see that Spirit Rangers have been recognized and several other things have been changed.

Added.
Blast finisher on warhorn 5 – Wait I can have a controlled blast finisher in all the fields available to me….. Interesting.

Stealth on Longbow 3 – Assuming this may help generate more opening strike opportunities.

Offhand Axe 5 – switched from reflection to retaliation?

Offhand axe 4 – Was a pull added? calculator shows a pull distance now.

Other weapon changes I’m missing?

Spirits
Water Spirit added to heals.

Did Spirit health get a second bump? Find it hard to believe spirits is a spvp build without a bit more HP, so easy to aoe drop.

Utility Skills

Guard improved – stealth and protection (Does the stealth on a pet enhance damage? Thinking Lynx with benefits of jaguar but also it’s own f2.)

Traits -
Spotter – benefit increased(doubled?)
MoC – Don’t remember the stun daze duration increase.
Barkskin – protection increased
Off Hand training – (Range increase new?)
Natural Vigor – Endurance regen reduced (Disliked dodge monkey?)
Nature’s Voice – (Ok don’t remember this one is the 15 second CD on guard just making me notice it now?)

Enlargement – Was stability always a benefit?

Two handed Training – Fury stacking on greatsword – interesting
Made spirits mobile for 20 not 30 points.
Sure I’m missing more.

Spvp -
Settler’s Amulet – (I got all excited for a second – then saw it was simply a renamed Shamans).

So anything else I should know other than obviously pet hit chance remains borked and tied to PvE easymode mob mechanics?

StevesDad.8213:

I have never seen more of a consensus on what a joke a class is except for the late 2004-2005 druids in WoW.

The people that do seem to enjoy the class use melee weapons.

What?

The class’ name is indicative of what it should accelerate at, which is ranged. I see almost no one encouraging shortbow or longbow. The axe and horn really don’t count as far as I’m concerned.

What is the point of picking a “ranger” and then grabbing a sword and running up to a mob? Or an axe you throw from not too far away that will bounce off of ANYTHING?

It seems to “work” ok for people but why is this the #1 encouraged method?

An apt comparrison actually. The Druid of 04-05 in an innervate feral charge build was a survivable beast that lacked pure damage output but kept going and going and going and dueled quite well… The majority of players wanted to be the best healer – we werent and they wanted cat form DPS to wtfpwn – it didn’t. But the class was overall better than people gave it credit for.

I could say just about the same for ranger in this game with very slight modifications…

Yes I’ve played them both and honestly my innervate feral charge druid was IMHO funner to play.

Forzani.2584:

Arrys.7145:

Forzani.2584:

Arrys.7145:

Your 30 beastmaster spec trait heal will not change from 133 based on your stats,

Your regeneration boons go from something like 127-297 potential in HOTM gear.

Your signet heal goes from a low of like 64-high 130’s low mid 140’s in HOTM gear.

the easy way to ballpark your regeneration boon heal is to mouseover healing spring. Divide the regen value by 18 and thats within 1 of your regen boon heal value per tic.

Well I am still a little confused exactly what regen boons we actually have. I mostly use Troll Ungeant which I now know isn’t a regen.

Healing spring – you can spec armor to have 100% regen boon uptime with this heal (But you have to be able to stay in the waterfield for the full 15 seconds to accomplish it)

Oakheart salve

armor options to generate regen boon

What does that mean ? How do you accomplish it ?

(new player here. I am not familar with a lot of the stuff you are talking about)

Armor runes and + boon + regen duration. trait +33% +10% from Nature line, +20% 2 rune bonus = +63% duration – total duration of healing spring regen stacks if you get all 6 is 18 seconds plus 63% is 29.34 second duration. You can get over 30 using other 2 rune bonuses or 4 rune bonuses or more points in nature line if you want.

If you want to test numbers go to HOTM and get the free gear runes and test specs. You will need to fight the combat training sparring NPC’s as they will damage you to see your healing tic’s. Unfortunately combat log doesn’t track the healing.

Arrys.7145:

Hector.6950:

Arrys.7145:

Hector.6950:

Arrys.7145:

Abaregi.1659:

“Lick wounds does not work 50% of the time”
That is strange, I do not have that behavior. Is it a static problem that occurs every other time?

“Pet Skill F2: Does not apply instantly when activated”
How do you know this is a bug? I have not noticed any information about this being an “instantaneous effect” I searched but could not find Anet stating that either. Maybe you could link it for me?

“Waterfield does not apply regeneration when using physical projectile”
I usually see the graphics for the effect but have not actually tested and checked if the mechanic actually works. I will have to check that out.

Haven’t tested after last patch but I did tests pre patch and had 100% regen application to my pet when using 100% projectile finishers on golem test subjects. It’s an easy test to run. Hard part with projectile finishers is getting the projectile to pass through the friendly target you want to get the regen on the way to the target it is hitting. Unlike negative effect projectile finishers. Golems make easy test subjects with our pet however.

Isn’t the regen supposed to apply on you? Besides healing spring giving you regeneration the water field should give you an extra bonus when using projectile finishers. Mayby I’m wrong, but I really think this is supposed to work on yourself to

Don’t believe so your projectile does not pass through you.

Axe 4 also will not boomerang it back to you.

It does not work on my pet either. I have just tested it. Make sure your trait “fortifying bond” is off and you will see. It will only apply regen to your pet if it is standing in the healing spring. This however has nothing to do with waterfield combos.

I’ll check it again tonight.

Works for me, make sure your finisher goes through your pet. Tested axe 4 and 5, SB 4 and 5, LB 4. Even tested the 20% finishers and confirmed they proc it. Duration is such you better switch targets fast to notice if your pet isn’t being damaged.

It would be helpful if speccing beastmastery also boosted secondary stats like condition not just primaries of pets.

Hector.6950:

Arrys.7145:

Hector.6950:

Arrys.7145:

Abaregi.1659:

“Lick wounds does not work 50% of the time”
That is strange, I do not have that behavior. Is it a static problem that occurs every other time?

“Pet Skill F2: Does not apply instantly when activated”
How do you know this is a bug? I have not noticed any information about this being an “instantaneous effect” I searched but could not find Anet stating that either. Maybe you could link it for me?

“Waterfield does not apply regeneration when using physical projectile”
I usually see the graphics for the effect but have not actually tested and checked if the mechanic actually works. I will have to check that out.

Haven’t tested after last patch but I did tests pre patch and had 100% regen application to my pet when using 100% projectile finishers on golem test subjects. It’s an easy test to run. Hard part with projectile finishers is getting the projectile to pass through the friendly target you want to get the regen on the way to the target it is hitting. Unlike negative effect projectile finishers. Golems make easy test subjects with our pet however.

Isn’t the regen supposed to apply on you? Besides healing spring giving you regeneration the water field should give you an extra bonus when using projectile finishers. Mayby I’m wrong, but I really think this is supposed to work on yourself to

Don’t believe so your projectile does not pass through you.

Axe 4 also will not boomerang it back to you.

It does not work on my pet either. I have just tested it. Make sure your trait “fortifying bond” is off and you will see. It will only apply regen to your pet if it is standing in the healing spring. This however has nothing to do with waterfield combos.

I’ll check it again tonight.

Forzani.2584:

Arrys.7145:

Your 30 beastmaster spec trait heal will not change from 133 based on your stats,

Your regeneration boons go from something like 127-297 potential in HOTM gear.

Your signet heal goes from a low of like 64-high 130’s low mid 140’s in HOTM gear.

the easy way to ballpark your regeneration boon heal is to mouseover healing spring. Divide the regen value by 18 and thats within 1 of your regen boon heal value per tic.

Well I am still a little confused exactly what regen boons we actually have. I mostly use Troll Ungeant which I now know isn’t a regen.

Healing spring – you can spec armor to have 100% regen boon uptime with this heal (But you have to be able to stay in the waterfield for the full 15 seconds to accomplish it)

Oakheart salve

armor options to generate regen boon

Hector.6950:

Arrys.7145:

Abaregi.1659:

“Lick wounds does not work 50% of the time”
That is strange, I do not have that behavior. Is it a static problem that occurs every other time?

“Pet Skill F2: Does not apply instantly when activated”
How do you know this is a bug? I have not noticed any information about this being an “instantaneous effect” I searched but could not find Anet stating that either. Maybe you could link it for me?

“Waterfield does not apply regeneration when using physical projectile”
I usually see the graphics for the effect but have not actually tested and checked if the mechanic actually works. I will have to check that out.

Haven’t tested after last patch but I did tests pre patch and had 100% regen application to my pet when using 100% projectile finishers on golem test subjects. It’s an easy test to run. Hard part with projectile finishers is getting the projectile to pass through the friendly target you want to get the regen on the way to the target it is hitting. Unlike negative effect projectile finishers. Golems make easy test subjects with our pet however.

Isn’t the regen supposed to apply on you? Besides healing spring giving you regeneration the water field should give you an extra bonus when using projectile finishers. Mayby I’m wrong, but I really think this is supposed to work on yourself to

Don’t believe so your projectile does not pass through you.

Axe 4 also will not boomerang it back to you.

Your 30 beastmaster spec trait heal will not change from 133 based on your stats,

Your regeneration boons go from something like 127-297 potential in HOTM gear.

Your signet heal goes from a low of like 64-high 130’s low mid 140’s in HOTM gear.

the easy way to ballpark your regeneration boon heal is to mouseover healing spring. Divide the regen value by 18 and thats within 1 of your regen boon heal value per tic.

Cempa.5619:

Id like to see LB stacking Might on the ranger if it is used short range.

That would be sweet.

Abaregi.1659:

“Lick wounds does not work 50% of the time”
That is strange, I do not have that behavior. Is it a static problem that occurs every other time?

“Pet Skill F2: Does not apply instantly when activated”
How do you know this is a bug? I have not noticed any information about this being an “instantaneous effect” I searched but could not find Anet stating that either. Maybe you could link it for me?

“Waterfield does not apply regeneration when using physical projectile”
I usually see the graphics for the effect but have not actually tested and checked if the mechanic actually works. I will have to check that out.

Haven’t tested after last patch but I did tests pre patch and had 100% regen application to my pet when using 100% projectile finishers on golem test subjects. It’s an easy test to run. Hard part with projectile finishers is getting the projectile to pass through the friendly target you want to get the regen on the way to the target it is hitting. Unlike negative effect projectile finishers. Golems make easy test subjects with our pet however.

darb.9231:

Electro you are correct that their F2 is a buff that applies conditions to their basic ability so it hits as reliably as normal. However, the buff is not “used up” if they miss. For example….Forrest spider F2 says it applies poison on your next 3 attacks. What it really does is apply poison on your spiders next 3 “spit” attacks that hit. If it misses, no biggie it will still apply on the next hit. Application is on “spit” only, not on poison gas. I’ve tested this thoroughly.

If you go 20 BM with Intimidation training not only does the Forrest spider apply poison on it’s next 3 hits it also applies cripple each time. Yes, 3x for like 15 total seconds of cripple and even longer duration poison. Cave spider is also excellent with this by applying weakness, vulnerability and cripple on its next 2 hits after using F2. These two spiders + Intimidation training provide unbelievable lockdown and condition application on any class you may come up against.

None of this even takes into consideration Malicous Training which would increase all these condition durations by 50%.

This is severely overlooked and I hate to even clarify this for fear of nerf but since the OP brought it up I couldn’t help but clarify.

Shh I love my cave spider lockdown when going sniper mode. With 20 in BM I think both cave and forrest become superior to jungle blackwidow. DO I want multiple snares plus debuffs or 1, 2 sec stun.

Aeri.5738:

In sPvP there is almost NO place where you can utilize this range.
Battle for Kylo? maybe 2 spots, but horrible at clocktower.
Foefire? Maybe the only map where it’s not completely useless…
Forest of Niflhel: every Point is guarded by structures, no efficient use possible.
Temple of the Silent Storm: again, only very few spots
Capricorn: seriously, nobody likes that map anyways…

Khylo – vertical distance counts roof at clocktower if you blow it off and travel point coverage in LB beast pet kill snare mode. Longbow plus our snares and pet make you ideally suited to slowing and limiting death return reinforcements from safe locales. Ranger can do a great job greatly slowing the supply lines and preventing the enemy from maximizing retake defend options.

Foefire range is easy few ranged points limit access to you however so in outnumbered scenarios it’s a pita 1v1 it makes for some fun fights. Pinnacle snipers nest in full on crit power mode you can lay mass casualties at GY.

Niflhel = ++ Best map for longbow use. Yes the range of the snipers nest’s aren’t necessarily ideal for autoattack but,

Mine – Scaffolding on 2 sides to limit access to you, Knockdown into the water by maneuvering them to that angle. Great visibility from front scaffolding of approaching attackers enabling early pet engagement under barrage snare, knockback etc….

Keep – Backside ledges right above the point enable your knockback to knock a target over railing(Long trip back with your pet eating them) or down long approaches, need a leap pet to get pet engagement on target when using backside snipers nest, piercing and large fights targetting the enemy furthest = happy. In group fights standing at either stair you can send any single attacker that comes out to limit your range to bottom of stairway snare pet remove them from the node fight. Also a trapdroppers dream point however and it completely owns this conflict point.

Henge – Backside ledge single access fishbowl fighting point – melee and leap pets can engage while you unload weapon swap from your longbow to secondary ranged after using 5432 unless you’ve pinned enemy on back wall with pet CC + knockback.

We do get to carry 2 weapons after all but this map really lets you get good pet engagement + full utility benefits from the bow.

Capricorn – agree don’t like it but has good snipe locations control points for a knockback snaring archer.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I don’t really know about pets receiving our stats as a core function of how they work.
On the one hand, it’s not like armor progression should only feel rewarding for Beastmaster specs (because clerics stuff makes an obvious impact on pet longevity, but all the other stats don’t make an obvious impact on the pet or the master). On the other hand, it’s nice that you can expect a baseline of functionality dependent on pet selection regardless of how bad your armor is or how ill fitting it is to the task you’re assigning your pet to.

I think maybe traits and utilities are a better place to look. For example; When you go Defensive, it’s you AND your pet, by virtue of most tanky options affecting the both of you as a baseline and there exists the Signet of the Wild utility option that directly translates your stats onto something related to the pet. But when you go Offensive, it’s mostly either you OR your pet, and there isn’t any utility or trait that acts as a direct transference of your stats.

Agony does need to be addressed, and given the existence of an Agony Stat on the pet screen they surely have something in mind.

But, food! That’s a good idea.
You know, given how cheap food is, I kind of wonder if we couldn’t just feed them their own piece of food?

Does a mesmers F! bar benefit from THEIR stats? Yes it does.
Does a necro?
A Warrior?

However there is a key difference that does sort of justify this. Our pet has 100% uptime.

Tadayoshi.2815:

I also never thought about that. Good point. Maybe there is a reason for that, or it’s a thing with how the pet scales in general, but I also would like to hear about that from Anet.

Pets get zero benefit from your stat points. So while if you go to the pet memnu and mouseover their skills they will show damage improvement based on your power or condition damage the fact is the pet doesn’t act that way.

So unless you actually test your pets damage you may not even realize theya ren’t scaling as your interface indicates.

You increase a pets damage 3 ways. Speccing beastmastery and masters bond. This also benefits toughness and vitality(survivability).

Might boons -

Traits that benefit pet damage.

So Boons operate on pets and traits utilities and thats really it.

However you wouldn’t know that from the interface mouseovers.

DaisyRogers.6837:

it could get kind of hairy because i summon them on the run as I circle the battle field while my wolf tanks.

I like the idea of ground targeting but they would have to alter the animations so that it can still be used on the run. I am not standing around waiting for the thing to go off, cast times are too long to stand in melee risking interrupts.

Not sure what you mean I gorund target traps on the run in trap builds all the time.

Ok the boon benefits of spirits can come in handy, proc rate and benefits properly geared can be beneficial, however.

In a game that gives us limited skills and seems designed aorund tactical use selection of traits abilities we are denied the ability to tactically place our spirits.

Instead we get this random area around us they are spawned in.

I would suggest they should be made ground targettable so we can place them exactly where we want them in @ 900 range. This lets us use LOS, lets us summon them while in melee combat to a location remote from the AOE swings of whatever is beating on us etc….

I don’t think this should be a trait it should simply be how they operate we summon them to a specific location.

deepwinter.9015:

Zenith.7301:

What do you mean tankiest? mainhand sword is supremely more useful for a bunker/tank build than greatsword will ever be.

Both are good for tank builds. Greatsword has a block, an evade in a chain and a stun. Sword (with Dagger) has an evade, a leap back (not quite an evade) and an offhand evade (Dagger).

In fact, I would say if a Ranger were to go full-blown tank build, they should run both weapon sets.

Regarding the 4th observation: at what point does more crit/crit damage become better to stack than more power?

GS gets a non CD evade it is superior defensively to sword from continuos over time assault and against missile fire burst over a short period.

Sword – is superior in terms of evading burst damage because it gives you 2 on demand evades, 3 with dagger whereas GS gets a single block. Sword can also add in missile deflection instead of the additional evade plus vulnerability stacking. Sword is also superior in being able to double leap inside one healing spring duration. ( the on demand aspect makes it better for pvp IMHO)

Agree with your assessment and also always looked at the traits were they were as tank offensive increases. They make perfect sense from that point of view.

In fact go 5 more into nature and get 5% additional damage for you and your pet with a boon up. And if you actually use spirits you can have 100% boon up uptime 50% for protection and 100% swiftness. And the final traits in nature which we aren’t crazy about let you strip poison – healing debuff on dodge or take your spirits with you.

In some ways it may also be for pve aggro management.

I’ld change my pets to Boar and Hyena. Boar is not only tougher and higher HP for using protect me with but his f2 will drop an environmental weapon that is an AOE fear, daze(2s, 900 or 600 range) or Stun(2s, 170 range) to synergize with your moment of clarity. His knockdown is also 3 seconds last I checked not 2.

As you have already provided for condition removal by trait double dipping is IMHO redundant. You need to be able to burst in your stun daze KD phase and I’ld go with QZ on demand instead.

I’ld probably test the build in both the power variant you have but also a condition crit bleed variant. And if your going for power control burst kill considering going flat bezerker might give your best result. Hit hard and kill em within your chained CC.

It’s probably worth playing around with and testing.

Electro.4173:

Arrys.7145:

posion chance on basic attack.

Spiders don’t get poison chance on their basic. Devourers do. Spiders can still poison via their poison volley or (for certain ones) F2 ability though.

TY edited that out was thinking of devourers basic.

I actually like the poison volley vs bunker builds. It applying over 3 attacks vs a single keeps it on over a decent period of time.

AlexRD.7914:

He can hit while invisible and all of his hits are critical hits

Secondarily in solo pve enetering stealth drops his aggro and the mob turns on you while he’s ripping them from behind which can be a good way to save maintain a 25 stack of masters bond.

So it has use both in PvP and PvE although not beneficial against aoe.

Leuca.5732:

I would be more ok with the charge up time if the pet followed its target during the actual animation. With how it is now, you can have your River Drake (which has an AMAZING damage f2) fully charge up the skill and then have it go on full CD because the opponent got behind the pet without even realizing what the pet was doing.

His opponent is coming after you so why are you standing behind him? You are bait

Even in random join PvP the duration of the water field from healing spring has people combo fielding off it at least in 5 man.

It really is a great skill.

Just wish my drake’s tail swipe was operational.

Yeah I tested the piggie stun last night as well. Pretty sure it used to be 3 seconds.

Vulnerability is valuable stacked particularly in a group setting… Using assist in PvP or pve grouped on a set target it increases damage potential nicely. And marks is also our condition duration line so 5 seconds of vulnerability becomes 6.5 seconds at 30 marks. Alot of attacks with either a SB or sword or fast attacking pet synergizes well with longbow.

In terms of not alot of options for sniping TPVP maps are pretty well designed with snipers nests in mind particularly if you use a snare KD pet…. Better than most MMO’s in that regard.

Endurance full damage is very usable if your specced for vigor + end regen even if you end up at melee.

The pet crit damage on crit trait is a way to burst in BM builds. Some pets do crit alot (cats birds – jaguar on demand).

Flanking is a 270 degree arc that includes behind +10% damage there is a very nice benefit 1v1 or group. One is practically always flanking in combat against any skilled opponent that jukes as you do.

As for the stat distribution in skirmishing line. If you use it as a major line 30 points you can have switch gear builds that are strong trap condition builds and/or strong power crit builds. I actually like what they did with skirmishing line as a result. I know some don’t but it’s great flexibility in a game you can swap so much out of combat and have access to all gear for s and tpvp.

The stability on the pig synergizes with your WS line. Agree somewhat lackluster but there is a logic there.

Spirit proc chance to 50% – I actually find irrelevant at 35% with fast attack times and the 10 second icd on 3 of 4 spirit procs you’ll max proc out at 35% over 60 seconds.

I also tend to ignore spirit health and simply hide my stone spirit if using them. (valuable if going 30 and moving).

The expanded PBAOE area of effects & on death is valuable. Elite spirit auto procs it’s raise/cleanse on death, any melee killer of your hidden spirits takes damage snare immobilize etc…Also more margin for error on the elite spirits raise on dying maneuver in PvP.

Several of the BM traits your not crazy about actually help the tank heal build rangers quite a bit. Pet heal improvement currently can tic 177 health onto the ranger in combat. Thats actually useful in DPS BM builds and tank builds.

Some are somewhat pet specific. Cats attack fast enough with short enough CD’s that even if swapping the 10% reduction is handy….

F2 reduction is handy if using a MB bomb drake.

Masters Bond is situationally useful even in PvP….A drake bomb is a terrible thing to waste…. If you yourself aren’t built to burst it helps you burst through your pet and can make squishy pets significantly more durable.

I pretty much don’t like on down low health traits as you don’t seem to. Many traits are very situationally useful or can work into a build playstyle strategy.

They can also provide a permanent heal debuff because of the nature of the 3 application poison on I think it’s the jungle spider and then there is the 2 application weakness of the cave spiders f2. The multi application nature is also beneficial for bypassing removal .

They are good control debuff pets. Overall damage not so much.

Don’t agree with several points of analysis but darn that was a lot of effort.

PS you have access to a 3 second stun environmental weapon and some pets crit practically constantly. The boar also gives a daze environmental weapon but I forget it’s duration. SO Juvenile board pet and 2 of it’s 3 forages should work with 30 skirmishing.

Boar plus moment of clarity may be a very decent CC option now I think about it. So if those 2 work with moment of clarity…. THat’s good cc in a damage build option.

They decided to not put traditional healing in the game – therefore bunker builds and self reliance are the only way to ensure uptime outside of a very few limited DPS stealth options.

Because reliance on others is so minimal we aren’t grouping up in regular teams like we are forced to in other games creating symbiotic units. It’s self reliant bunker mode.

This meta isn’t about map design, it’s about glass cannons being far too glass when there is no option of hooking up with a healer that can keep them standing. If you remove the healer only being a bunker enables reliable objective completion. therefore you have a meta full of bunker strategy vs. heal plus tank or dps strategy.

Yes we find this meta shallow and 1 dimensional as a result.

Because it’s largely a team build and rangers are lobo’s?

Note: I realize the build your running is a solo build but line perception is pure team line. People have an abject fear of conditions and rarely run without condition removal (30 WS is a MUST!!!! thought process).

So how is moment of clarity working with only 1 interupt. I was thinking of doing a GS LB test.

Infatum.2481:

Kainaru.4782:

If you use the trait “Compassion Training” (also in BM), it boosts the heal coming from your pet. Then “Natural Healing” ticks for 177 instead of 133 (and so does the fern dog regen). I tested it two days ago. I think it’s the only way to increase Natural Healing

Does Compassion Training not immediately ‘take’? I’ve tried testing this several times, and my pet’s healing power remained listed as 0 and Natural Healing came in at 133 not 177. I’ve tried zoning with the trait equipped, swapping pets, specifically equipping the fern dog since you mentioned him, and none of the above worked. Does it actually list the 350 healing power for you? If so I’m definitely bugged :-P

No healing power doesn’t get listed just as increased condition damage doesn’t. And No I’m not sure they are describing it correctly as the value the pet heals by remains constant while yours can vary.

Yes you can get the 177 by being in combat with your pet although there are exceptions where the 177 won’t tic that I haven’t bothered to figure out.

They pulled the heal value they are assuming from the patch notes.

Unspecified.9142:

Ursan.7846:

Unspecified.9142:

The tooltip is the only thing about entangle that is affected by anything. It’s not just condition damage that doesn’t affect it. It’s a survival skill but doesn’t get 20% reduction to its CD. Condition duration doesn’t affect it. Literally nothing matters. It is what it is and that’s all that it is.

The CD trait does affect Entangle. It goes from 150s to 120s.

You’re right, my mistake. I’m fairly certain it didn’t used to work though I honestly hadn’t checked it in a long time because I use traps and not survival utilities.

correct that was improved several patches ago relatively early on.

I personally would check and see if the trait that improves pet condition damage impacts entangle.

We don’t have less vigor – thieves don’t get a utility skill that grants vigor we do along with guardians.

We also get it on being crit if traited whereas they can spec to get it when stealing. Longer CD than our CD on being crit hit.

And we can grant aoe vigor by virtue of healing spring vs their heals being single target.

I’ll take our methods, they are better overall on a simple vigor analysis.

rogerwilko.6895:

well one thing I don`t understand is why the P.atk trait line gives +cond duration, I mean it must be a logic here, right?

I don`t plan to be strongest dps-er etc.

I am looking for a build that does not focus on bleeds.

yes debuff conditions last longer. Axe 3 frost, poisons for the heal debuff, weakness debuff, vulnerability, cripple…..

At the same time bleeds like splitblade 6 seconds at +30% become +1.8 or an extra tic that can be +5 tics if all 5 bleeds hit the same target. Another 10% condition duration from somewhere and that’s an extra 2 tics on 6 secopnd duration conditions.

snared vulnerable targets are a benefit and a modest + DPS add isn’t bad…

Just because you use power doesn’t mean you don’t want + condition duration.

Because with healing spring you can apply the vigor 6 times over 15 seconds and it is an AOE? on cast and very 3 seconds until the spring fades.