Guild Wars 2

Raytek.6193:

No one is ‘protecting’ anything. Learn how to play before calling things OP.

Did it ever occur to you that things might be just the other way around? Maybe you need to learn to play if such a class is balanced in your hands.

Point is: such “arguments” don’t prove anything because they can be easily applied to you as well.

I didn’t expect much. However, this patch surprised me. There seems to have been zero attempt to get some more build diversity into the class – which is much needed.

Most of the changes also seem to have been done, as someone stated, within a larger project.

Gluttony sounds good…but as soons as you realize how the rounding is done and only spectral walk gives as a result of it a 1% life force more from it….ummm ok. (If the rounding has been changed I apologize but so far I haven’t realized any change to pre-patch)

At the end of the day not much has changed. And besides that…a necro who runs a flesh golem won’t be eager to jump into the water which more or less blows about 60% of the necro patch notes out of the water (oops pun, sorry). If that’s not a bad game design then I really don’t know.

Anyway, I cannot understand how developers can spend valuable resources in such a blatantly wrong way like a sidekick that underwater combat is – especially for a necro.

Sheobix.8796:

3. 2s fear is an amazing and very long fear for battles. every 15s, that’s a very good tool. don’t underestimate fear. What I don’t like, though, is how long a warrior’s knockdown lasts. This does not mean we suck, it means other classes may have slightly unbalanced skills.

You just said in an “inverted” way “we suck” because that’s the essence if many classes have better skills .)

When you take into consideration that the class is supposed to be an attrition class which it is hard to get away from according to the devs ask yourself if the class really fits that description.

That aside I don’t like the drama here. Is the class “broken”? For me that would mean unplayable without being no fun at all. Nope, by no means imo.

Is it great and do the traits offer a lot of interesting synergy? Does the class support many builds which are interesting to explore and really competetive? I don’t think so either unfortunately.
Especially the minions are a catastrophe. Even with a working AI their abilities would be pretty bland (ok, maybe that’s about taste but I no minion has a “cool” or “unique” ability).

Also bleeds get removed so often in fights were many people are involved and take a long time to stack up again to a serious level – long time in comparision to the huge numbers of direct damage you can eat during that time.

Whatever, I haven’t seen any class patch notes and I guess they will try to make money with X-Mas stuff so the most sensible thing is to play something else while coming back now and then to play a spvp game for fun. That’s win-win for me /shrug

Dunno…it may be somewhat ok in a minion build with death nova. However, gluttony is in no way better. I don’t feel any noticeable effect speccing into it. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, though.

GlockworK.2954:

samo.1054:

Pray.9751:

i didn’t read anything about stealth rendering? so i guess that is still in the game besides promises otherwise

As far as I heard, people say it’s fixed.

Eh… I’m still backstabbing fools in PvP while they are just standing there or running around freaking out because they can’t see me.

I honestly don’t think it’s been completely fixed. If only we had duels so that we could test these things out more reliably.

I think you gave yourself the answer why there is no duel option .)

Lloyd.8710:

Lol if that was true then there wouldn’t be builds with more survival beating glass cannons…everyone likes to act like this game is either black or white. It comes down to sheer skill and playstyle. Granted trying to climb the stairwell that is necro is like going up in crutches but anyone who manages to reach the top wont be disappointed. If it was all about burst and direct damage then i guess Anet might as well remove all forms of utility and cc out. A properly setup necro can outright cancel 4-5 backstabs with proper class knowledge(if you have to ask how then you are probably one of the ppl who gave up)

Yeah, it doesn’t take ages to stack up those bleeds and they do not get often wiped off repeatedly especially in a team environment.

Utility and cc? Oh yes, the forums are full of complaints from other classes how necros ruin their day because of those insane abilties they field.

Oh, and of course a “you are bad” comment. Seriously, grow up.

Anet stated that the design philosophy is that of an attrition class which it is hard to disengage from.

Ask yourself if that is true in a game where direct damage and burst rule surpreme.

I haven’t played for 3-4 weeks except on time. Both teams consisted mainly of thieves and mesmers which made me log out again. Since then I come here now and then to read the patch notes or the boards and see if there are any meaningful changes. It seems this patch didn’t change anything and if it is true that only 2 guys work on bugs and balance…well, I guess we won’t see any significant changes like minion AI for a loooong time. Nevertheless they do a good job for a 2 men team.

The problem of this game is imo: actually you see mostly 4 classes being played and on top of that most of them run the same build. In short: the game lacks diversity which makes it somewhat dull.

Anyway, the game has no subscription or else I’d have unsubbed a long time ago. As it stands now I will just come here now and then and do some reading but will give ANet not one more cent.

As for the initial cost of the game…I played quite a few hours which entertained me. Therefore I don’t throw a fit .)

instantcoffee.1785:

I use a regeneration build, it’s my go-to and yes it stomps on thieves because their burst doesn’t touch me through well of darkness and staff marks.

Ok, you fight thieves who sit in a well of darkness and you win. Surprise, surprise.

Wait till you see a mediocre skilled thief simply resetting the fight while you sit on your 60 sec cd (untraited).

Comparing a thief to a mesmer is a good way to show that its abilties are totally balanced.

Wait…who said “sarcasm”?

My necro’s life leeching mechanic really saved me from that rogue.

The life leeching mechanic is a part of what makes this class an attrition class (well, JP said that its design philosophy is to be an attrition class type).

Considering that most regular attacks hit somewhere for between 800-1000 those 28 points I get back per hit (if I spent traits) really realy reeaaaally will save me – especially when I take the real hard hitting stuff into account.

Gabi.5264:

Seriously, 19k in 7 hits and you complain about that?
You are seriously complaining about a skill that does 2715 damage per hit.

Please tell me this is not true.

I know it must be surprising for a thief but…for some professions this is a high number especially because when you mash button x it doesn’t respond anymore because gasp it is on a coodlown!!!

Actually the lack of stability is even more hilarious when you consider that the necro is envisioned as a class you should have a hard time to get away from. Well, 1 knockback and your victim can easily run off, or a thief stealing your fear…

What makes minions so bad (except the bugs / terrible AI of course) that you cannot play a iota tactical with them. You cannot assign them to a position, you cannot put them into aggressive or passive mode etc. Those are things which actually make it fun to play a minion class.
Even with a working AI this minions would just be some special form of a DoT ability. A lot of potential is wasted here.

1. kitten a necro. Now I can’t disengage anymore

2. You just need to dodge to survive the necro’s dps combo

3. Thank you for the cake, dear customers

1. “You must master DS in combination with a minion build”

(and no, the minion AI wasn’t fixed)

2. “We increased the condition removal capabilities of all classes”

3. “We won Stephen Hawking to setup the dps combos for the necromancer class”

4. “We regret to inform you that Stephen Hawking left our company because he wasn’t able to set up any dps combos with the available (functioning) traits. Therefore we had to put a stop on the necromancer development for now”.

Some proposals:
1. Condition build

Dispel Protection / Dispel Punishment Mechanic:
Example: “Burning Fever” debuff. If the stack of bleeds gets dispeled it deals immediately X% of damage of the bleed stack. This will also require people to play strategic and not mash their dispel buttons like there is no tomorrow.

Reason: Bleeds get so easily removed it is not even funny considering how long it takes to stack them while direct damage hits you for 1k and more.
Suggestion:

2. Power Builds
This build seems to lack either range/dps/survivability or a combination of both. You have to go toe to toe with melee classes which outdps you, have usually better cc and DS isn’t compensating for it…at all

Add to this that building life focre takes ages…and the whole mechanic actually just cumbersome. Fight a thief and you know what I mean

3. Minion
Well, can’t say much about that build because, quite frankly, minions do not really work due to their AI

4. Finishing someone off – all builds
Lack of stability/Stealth/Quickness makes it a nightmare to finish someone off in pvp. Often a warrior even gets retaliation before you can stomp him

About the design philosophy
The idea is good but it seems not to work for those reasons:
1. Spectral grasp for example is buggy and doesn’t often pull someone to you
2. Life force building takes ages – so tankyness is relative
3. Disengaging is easy from a necro because conditions get removed pretty easily
4. Attrition doesn’t really work either because direct and burst damage is simply so much better at the moment than wittling someone down. Add to this point no. 2 and we have a problem

hackks.3687:

So Anet hates necros because every class can both apply and remove conditions? lol

I don’t know what to tell you if you thought you could just jump into PvP, blindly splash around some conditions, and find success. Learn how the other classes/builds control conditions/boons and you won’t be countered so easily.

Obviously you play no (cond.) necromancer. It takes for a pvp environment ages to build up some meaningful bleed stacks…which get so easily removed it is not even funny anymore while direct damage easily hits you instantly for 1k+. This holds true if the enemy has 2 guys with access to aoe cleansing..yaaay

Add to that that downed state removes all bleeds and it gets funny.

However, obviously it is fine for you to " just jump into PvP, blindly splash around some direct damage while ignoring conveniently all conditions".

Stickyrolls.3128:

Man reading this thread makes me realize what has been true for every game ever: The goods are playing the bads are posting. Most of you talk kitten like you know what you are talking about, you theory craft each other into nothing when in truth the only thing that matters is play. I bet most of you are hot join noobs and yet you talk is if you know something.

Now, if that’s no ironic, I don’t know. Sweeping statements and generalizations make you look pretty much what you accuse others of. Oh and btw…you also posted.

What I find mildly amusing in this whole thread is the defensive argumentation like…
1. You need better reactions
2. You need to build you character to survive that burst
3. Stealth does nothing, You are just bad. Just spam aoe and autoattacks

Here some food for thought:
1. Does any other class’ glass cannon spec offer this kind of combination of extreme dps/control/survivability?

2. If 2 glass cannon specs of other classes meet each other, is the winner at one match-up nearly guaranteed?

3. Does any other class require your to spec in a certain way to have a good fighting chance?

4. Should other classes which have a much higher skill cap not have a kind of slight advantage at the peak of the skill curve?

For a game without healers there are some class which do too much burst. Burst is usually need to pressure a healer and get a kill. In GW2 it is just a gib fest.

Darnis.4056:

Yet another thinly veiled thieves are OP thread?
You can’t play glass cannon without being a glass cannon..
Get a knights or soldier’s talisman and stop giving me free glory..

I have almost no problems with thieves in tPVP since I switched to soldier’s .. though sometimes there are some really good thieves out there that will stomp me….

I am sorry but your post is rather ignorant and you should play other classes, too.

1. Specc a e.g. necromancer as a glass cannon and see if it comes even close to what a thief does despite being more fragile.

2. Thieves are fragile? With their stealth and the render issues the game has the class is much more survivable which results that if you (I will stick to the example) specc a thief as a glass cannon and a necro, the thief will live much longer plus has more means to control the fight plus outdps the necro by a serious margin.

Thief Patch: Steal (on Necromancers)
The fear duration stolen from necromancers was increased to 20 sec when it is applied on the necromancer which it was stolen from. This will counter the bug where a necro survived the fear duration while the rogue beat him up.

Death Shroud, Plague Cloud, Lich Form
These forms will now trigger automatically the moa morph regardless if moa morph is on the bar of the mesmers in the vincinity or not.
Hotfix:
Moa Morphs’ durations stack now as intended

Patch Notes: Mesmer
Necro Morph
A new utility spell: Necro Morph transforms the target into a useless gibbering thing: a necromancer. Most of the target’s skills won’t work properly but he will provide fun and entertainment via dark magic effects which are amusing because they are so harmless

Mesmer Patch Notes 2:
We removed the Necro Morph spell because it was overpowered and let to instant deaths of thieves who couldn’t survive 3 seconds because they were not used to swapping weapons nor that their weapons skills had a cooldown

cab.4072:

Before getting “you are only defending because you play a thief” I play 6 professions in PvP.

Engis necros and ele’s have access to every one of their base skills without a build up, the comparison is nothing alike. And pressing buttons in a certain sequence isn’t a measure of skill. It’s pressing buttons.

Compared to just spamming away it demands more planning. Simply because the skill you use is on a cd – and in some cases this cd is considerable.

If you really play many classes, then you would agree that the rogue is the least demanding class when it comes to e.g. weapon switching. That’s also a reason why some people say that the class provides too much reward for too little effort.

Also, if you run out of initiative before your target bites the dust (except on certain bunker builds) then either your build needs rethinking or you really screwed up. And even if that happens, which is rarely the case, I stealth and just reset the fight and give it another go.

Spvp needs also a whole new reward system. Never before have I seen a system which consequently encourages you to play a battleground NOT in the spirit it was made.

You get rewarded for:
1. Ganging up / “Zerging”

2. Swapping bases instead of defending them

You get punished for:
1. 1. Defending bases (you are usually outnumbered, get killed, get zero points for it whereas someone who just runs around on the map and kills gets points)

1. 2. Defending bases – swapping them back and forth yields more points for both teams

Never before I have seen such a kitten poor design. I bet the guy who made the necromancer minion AI was also responsible for that

Vorpal.4683:

Fade.5904:

This thread is ridiculous
You change the thief in the microcosm that is sPvP and kill it for WvW and PvE.
Ive seen it happen in every MMO i can remember.
Stealth class gets nerfed because of PvP and in PvE the same players who called for the nerf wont entertain a stealth class in their group because ‘they bring nothing to the team’

This is why MMO’s should just stop having stealth classes. They are always absurdly overpowered for pvp (invisibility + huge spike damage) while generally not having much in the way of pve utility.

At least GW2’s thieves aren’t lacking in the utility department.

It is not the stealth per se. It is the combination of stealth. huge burst damage which is easy to apply and a plethora of escape abilities which makes such classes so hard to balance.

As if a kind of assassin class couldn’t be made in a different way than having huge frontloaded damage. Sometimes I wonder why devs never seem to learn and history is repeating itself. Actually I’d soooo like to have a chat with a dev about such classes (in general not necessarily about GW2’s thief class) in general and why they always insist on designing them exactly THAT way.

On the other hand, maybe they need this class which caters to people who expect and need such a class one way or the other.

Knote.2904:

The game has TONS of dmg flying around, and necro isn’t able to just avoid it like other classes can, they have death shroud and a bit more health, but that’s it. So they end up actually squishier in some cases.

If weakness wasn’t so bad we could basically have some of our protection be from our offensive conditions. Weakness doesn’t even come close to protection however, it needs to be a flat 25% dmg reduction.

Exactly.

1. The additional health doesn’t compensate by any means the flat damage avoidance of other classes. In case of mesmer it is even more obscene because the clones take some damage and, like the thief, they can easily wiggle out of tight situations taking all pressure from them in a blink of an eye…repeatedly.

I never saw an enemy go “oh kitten, he uses DS” nor did I ever have the feeling when I face a necro myself. It is just like “oh well, this will take a little bit longer”. That says all about the class mechanic.

2. Weakness
As Knote said…it doesn’t do much. A class which is set up for dealing burst will have high crit chance which means weakness is next to worthless. A flat damage reduction would be much more apropriate.

3. Chill
Ironically it is worthless against the worst classes a necro has to face. Thieves: the snare doesn’t do much to them with their gazillion gap closers, their initiative system gives them immunity against the cooldown increase…and they can spam away their skills. In case of other classes which a problematic like e.g. mesmer…he just stealthes and the pressure is gone again, guardians seem take so long to kill the chill doesn’t do help much anyway or it gets cleansed in seconds anyway. The list goes on…

gamefreak.5673:

The pets have a AI?

Yup, let me quote the A-Net Wiki entry for the “AI” (minion) acronym:
The acronym AI stands for Artificial Idiocy. Your pets and minions will behave erratically and unreliably. An additional feature is that they do often nothing at all.

Poxxia.1547:

I tend to run with Reapers Protection, or if I play another class something like that. And I tend to run condition/hybrid-builds … it is not like I have this sort of problems usually (my armor is probably also somewhat higher).

But, the problem for me is, that this kind of unavoidable burst with the possibility of escaping makes thieves rule the world of burst in slightly uncoordinated environment; basically I only see one other class running glass-cannon-builds if your team isn’t heavily coordinated or you are truly a gifted player. I know, that if I try to play a glass-cannon necro, there is no way I am gonna live through when facing a decent thief.

Again, it is not like it is unplayable or impossible to counter, it just makes things a bit skewed.

Poxxia brings up good points. I stopped speccing my necro into power or even a glass cannon build. Simply because I have to get very close to my targets and I drop very dead very quickly. Ironically much quicker than on my thief.
In addition the burst the necro can cause is easily avoided and needs to be channeled for 3 sec.
On top of that you cannot immobilize as easily as a thief can. So it is quite amusing to see most people dodge that barrage making the whole build even more subpar as it already is.

That’s why I play my rogue if I want to see numbers, not any other class despite I am not melee class fan at all. Acutally that says it all.

Facing rogues is mostly a death sentence with this build.

Point is:
Compared to other glass cannon specs rogues have a super easy time to land their full obscene damage, get easily away if something goes wrong plus have more surviveability than the other glass cannon specs due to stealth (and the render issue).

Downed state is an interesting mechanic. However, the implementation is just lousy. They are totally imbalanced plus stealth classes can use their mechanic to gain an additional advantage by killing downed people from stealth.

Imp:
We introduced a new minion which spawns if you get killed right after using Death Shroud. The minion will lecture you by quoting famous phrases of J.P. on how to use a Death Shroud in order to be an awesome killing machine. In addition: If you got killed by a rogue you get told that you had to simply dodge everything. The same goes for moa morphs

Wells:
You can summon a well now. What you can do? No idea. But at least you can summon one.

Mark of Blood
Appears when the remains of the necro get splattered onthe floor

Spectral Wall
Barrs the necromancer the way if he wants to escape. Seriously, some thieves were annoyed because some of you guys didn’t drop dead within 3 seconds and the thieves had to press 1-2 more hearts33k0rz! The wall will be autmatically placed on your support ability position 7 and cannot be removed

Signet of the Locust
Your legs get longer and when you get pulped it makes a sound as if you squash an insect. Really necromancy!!!

Epidemic
Was renamed to Aether Explosion and given to the mesmers. You had one thing which was better than their abilities. No way!

Summon Flesh Wurm
If a Ranger pet bird attacks your wurm it eats the wurm immediately and morphs to Giant Death Bird. It then is able to strafe the necromancers location. Bird droppings will cause 2000 damage plus 4000 acid damage

Some ideas to improve teamplay

1. Losers
Get 1/4th-1/2th of their points subtracted.

2. Defenders of nodes/bases
Let’s face it: usually you are outnumbered when you defend and killing someone is hardly possible. Maybe it would be fair to get points for downing someone (on a long cd) while defending a node.

3. Ganging up / “Zerging”
The amount of points should be divided among the one who shot at the target. This would counter the brainless herd tactics as well which serve only to run down unfortunate single players who try to play co-operative (by defending) or coming from the start location and trying to link up with comrades

4. Deserters
Not being able to play another match for 20 min

Dibrom.6408:

Flesh Golem:
Summon a Flesh Golem to watch you fight. This minion does not attack.

Plague Signet:
Passive: Apply copies of conditions your allies are suffering.
Active: Stop applying copies of conditions your allies are suffering.

Flesh Golem:
Added a party hat for Halloween season and the Flesh Golem claps excitedly now to the rythm of blows landing on the necromancer

New Plague Signet:
The following change will now better reflect the incarnation of plague the necromancer is (for his own team. Hey, we never stated that he was a plague for the enemy. So that’s only fair.)
Passive: Stripping boons of your allies
Active: Sending all the gathered boons to your enemies.

Necrotic Grasp:
The speed of the projectile was reduced by another 20% because a crippled and frozen mesmer was accidentally hit which caused an uproad in the mesmer forum

Bone Fiend:
The fiend now snares the necromancer. His snare never landed on the enemy anyway and it was easier to code it that way. Have fun!

Hotfix
Bone Fiend:
The new bone fiend was delete from the game because some clever player abused it as a bondage fiend for roleplaying

Parvati.5780:

They get insta-gibbed pretty much everywhere and are only mildly survivable if you load 30 points into the BM trait tree. Besides that, they don’t hit moving targets, my ranger can run faster to the target than its pet can and they’re horrid if you’re fighting mobs with stealth capability.

But that’s not what annoys me the most, it’s that they pop out of being stowed when your ranger takes the slightest amount of damage. Which is a real pain when you’re trying to do a jumping puzzle and it keeps popping out— ruining your view of the next jump step. Make pet-stowing perma, until you choose to have them out again please.

Necro minions seem to have the same problems. Our minions slack behind considerably when you run from A to B.
If you are in combat and a target moves…even our ranged pet misses making his snare useless.
That is if the minions react at all and aren’t just watching.

And for this necros have to sacrifice a utility slot hehehe

I guess the whole pet/minion AI needs to be re-coded. It also begs the question because you don’t hear anything nor see any tweakings if A-Net has a proragmmer who has enough experience with AIs to create one.

spoonfoy.7315:

this is amazing, and is mathematically every bit of a buff. this literally just made things worse. cannot WAIT for the tears to flow.,.,.,

Congratulation, that is pretty shortsighted. Why?
1. People will just get annoyed and play an other game. October-January is usually the time where new hot titles get released
2. You will see even more thieves and the diversity will go down the drain
3. Even more people will play bunker builds making the game even more bland

Thief and mesmer have too much damage when you take their control/survivabilty mechanics into account.

It is simple maths: watch the numbers a thief can frontload and how long e.g. a power specced necro takes to do that amount of damage – and has hardly more survivability than a thief (imo even less). You will be surprised.

Nevertheless it is like in many mmos: there are 2-3 classes which are totally out of whack but people simply deny it for various reasons. In this game, however, it gets problematic because it is easy to simply use that class and do not have to level a character – which kills diversity.

“While we work hard to keep updates going on all professions, not very build us going to contain fixes for everyone due to the nature of software development. One problem with rangers is the lack of build diversity created by a number of sub par utility skills.”

Oh yes, luckily necromancers don’t have the same issues as Rangers which Jon Peters outlines here.

Our power builds rock the boat. Their insane dps and range are just cool to play. The minion spec makes for diverse gameplay and it is great to position my minions tactically so they can rip opponents apart while they sustain quite some damage and regenerate after they’ve done their job.

I could go on but I need to log in and try another spec .)

“Mesmer
Scepter Skills: Projectile skills for the scepter have had their velocity increased by 33%.””

That’s really amusing because it had about the same speed as the necro staff 1 projectile. However, mesmer’s skill needs a buffing but the necro projectile is ok? I would really like to hear the reasoning for this.

And of course some really problematic bugs were, as usual, ignored for the necro class.

What is really annoying that there is no word on the minion AI either which is more like artificial idiocy than anything else. Of course there is no word that there will be control buttons for the minions either so that players can actually get them doing something useful for once.

It is also hilarious that the necro is a class which has 1 spec which really works…the rest is either so-so or outright crap either to the lack of synergy of skill or simply bugs or the malfunctioning minion AI

I think it is good that they do not knee-jerk reaction and take smaller steps to balance the game out. However, those small steps are too small.

Actually only the condition spec can perform well in pvp. Power…still lacks either dps or range imo.

Minions…oh well, everyone knows this spec’s problems.

At this point I am really wondering if A-Net has a coder skilled enough to produce a working minion AI. That’s the only logical reason why this topic is neither mentioned nor the AI tried to fixed.

For me it is too little too late. On Friday I can play King’s Bounty: Warriors of the North which means a long break from GW2. Maybe I give it a shot some months down the road if there is an active community still left.

““Mesmer
Scepter Skills: Projectile skills for the scepter have had their velocity increased by 33%.””

This disgusted me honestly considering the speed of staff 1’s projectile.

This also makes me wonder if the corrupt boon fix was only made because mesmers suffered the same problem and were blocked by Aegis .)

Oh yes, a World of Roguecraft video with the same dripping sarcasm would be great. The scary thing is, though, that the same lines which were uttered by WoW rogues could be re-used for this video e.g. “we need the damage because we have no real defense” ^^

Blackrow.4571:

I see many thieves advocates underestimate the problem. It’s absolutely true that a skilled player can counter thief, or atleast escape him.

Oh please, how many tools does a thief have to keep a target in range or even to catch up? I mean seriously…

If the damage were always avoidable by “playing smart” (aka knows as the pseud-argument of “it is balanced, just dodge it”) there would be less complaining on the forum.

However, the whole thing is rather cheap an’ cheesy. Why?
1. The combo is easy to pull off, especially with a macro
2. If you even succeed in screwing it up, you can get easily away with stealth and get another attempt on a free kill 45 sec later
3. If you really want to land that backstab you can do it by pre/chain-stealthing or waiting when someone is occupied

You know that something’s wrong in the scenario if you add the whole damage this combo does in this brief period of time and then compare it to power specs of other classes and how long it takes them to do this time of damage.

Things get worse when 2 rogues gang up on one target. It is basically instant death before you can react.

Lastly, please stop the “but thieves are squishy”. With the plethora of means to go into stealth plus the render bug thieves are more endurable than classes they claim to be tougher. Of course this doesn’t hold true for all scenarios but that goes both ways.

In General: However, the burst in this game is simply too high considering there are no healers. Quickness is also to blame here. It is also not balanced that certain classes have 1-move/combo and when it lands for whatever reason the game is over – however, other classes do not have that.

Addendum: What cracks me up is seeing the same people complain about the popularity of tank specs. Guess why…

I play a condition necro mostly and my experience is…

Pros:
1. Ignore Armour/toughness

2. You can easily find the real mesmer again ^^

3. Sometimes opponents miscalculated when to run

Cons:
1. Slow initial damage (Compared to direct damage the application takes ages)

2. Slow damage in general (they get often wiped by effects, especially by some guardian builds). Compared to a shortbow ranger a necro has to work for a long time to get a good deal of bleeds running…only to see the wiped.

3. Switching targets is because of the need of stacking problematic if you either do not run “epidemic” (as a necro) or they are too far apart

4. They get wiped when someone goes into downed state …. yipiii have fun stacking them again if you cannot stomp him

All in all I think the biggest problem – from a necro pov- the conditions need either a dispel protection, or a “burning fever” which consumes all conditions and does X% of damage as a one-time burst, and/or a slight tad more dps.

I give you 9/10 for this innovative “learn to dodge” post. You would have got 10/10 if you had had also explained that it is easy to see an invisible thief coming to attack you .) Nevertheless entertaining

The underlying mechanic and “flow” of pvp is really good and has potential. However, it suffers currently at the moment from…
1. class balance
2. broken mechanics (e.g. minion AI)
3. bugs (e.g. necro still has about 90 class bugs)
4. Giving class traits, abilities some synergy with the class’ mechanic (e.g. necro’s death shroud has not much synergy with a condition build apart from soaking up some announced shots…which makes for bland gameplay)
5. various other issues like the render bug of stealth
6. lack of maps
7. setup of pvp (e.g. spvp mechanics reward the mindless herd while punishing team-oriented gameplay like defending isn’t rewarding because you get outnumbered and just trampled. And even if you can get one down against the odd…you earn zero points for it)

All in all…there needs quite some work to be done.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Amityel.5324:

stealth is bugged on his screen he is visible but for you he is 1s or 2s more invisible so you think he can use almost perma stealth lets hope they will fix it in next 5 years.

Only happens in WvW thanks to massive population causing latency issues, not in sPvP love noobs who cry about WvW in sPvP forum.

It also happens regularly in spvp and lag is not the issue because there were often just 2-4 peeps near the node/location.

I doubt it will be easy to find it in the code.

Slan.5496:

Awesome to have a pro show up when some noob asks a question (aka crying) about a bug.

A pro thief at that .)

KTKTKT.1853:

if you are a power build ive seen the lich form crit for 4.5k-5k every hit lich form=power build golem=useless like the rest of our minions plague form=bunker/condition spec

…sometimes the golem is where I want it and I can pull off a charge. Which buys my condition necro some needed seconds versus thieves and other burst classes.

However, minus the charge…well, let’s don’t talk about it.

An UI is needed and would be welcome to counter the Artifical Idiocy of the minions. Actually I’d like to play a minion spec where you could really give your pets some orders and play strategically.

No words, action is needed.

I have read similiar words by companies like Mythic too often. And how it ends? “Principiis consentit exitus.” As the old Romans already knew

Cogbyrn.7283:

Thrym.9436:

I’m not on the subject, just adding my two bits. The OP was asking about burst damage, and I mentioned that it exists in this form.

I was just hoping we could have an actual discussion about the cause of burst damage succeeding on tank-specced players and how it could potentially be avoided.

My bad.

The problem is that, especially with the render bug/issue, the thief wants to land his backstab will land it because you cannot see an invisible enemy coming.

Sometimes you just here “ding, ding” but no one is there and your health bar drops madly and you dodge but the damage landed already.

The assassins signet is certainly one of the culprits which adds to the problem.

And the cause why players simply are annoyed by this whole mechanic is most likely that it is frontloaded, it is easy to pull off (just play an elemental or necro if you do not believe me) and if a thief screws up he can get easily away with stealth or infiltrator arrow and just waits the 45sec to get another attempt for a basically free kill.

Knyx.5926:

@lxal Keep crying
Ignorance is ignorance. You only dig yourself your own grave, not us.
Provide real evidence, even others have told you why.

@Poxxia
In a game where a class exists that can take up to 1m or infinity to kill, There has to exist a class that can kill in a minimum of 3-5 seconds.
The difference is one is high risk high reward, the other is not. Clearly, it is the bunker that is not high risk, but is getting high reward, people just get mad cuz they died but don’t see how it is them, or how it is the bunker that is the class/build that doesn’t require skill and finess.

The only way A-net will really reduce the damage of a thief, is if they reduce the maximum survivability of the tankier classes. Otherwise, I already made a detailed thread redesigning thief that would perfectly give people more time to react when facing a thief, but of course these whiners still haven’t really jumped on it only further proving they are just crying for attention

You are like a kid who throws a tantrum “bwaaah that’s no evidence bwwaaaah”. Pray, tell us what is evidence in your book?
Screenshots are no evidence
Videos are no evidence
Tests at the golem site are no evidence
Combat log is no evidence

Pfff…I could say now something but I don’t want an infraction.