Guild Wars 2

Follow-up hotfix:
-Included all missing mesmer nerfs.

I do hope it gets fixed, especially since it could be a key skill with chronomancer..

Carighan.6758:

Caelus.7139:

Except I’m pertaining to the fact that without the spec patch or any mention of it, Anet liked to ignore our call for our balance and being put on par with other classes. I’m pertaining to the fact of how ANet treats this class in terms of their “balance”.

Since every class shares this opinion, I guess they did, in fact, achieve balance?

Yea cause being non-viable in high tier was totally balanced.

Bunda.2691:

Caelus.7139:

It’s funny because pre-patch . . . we asked Anet for “balance”.

Yes, and these members of the community are again asking for balance. Except balance does not mean “now it’s time to make mesmers OP.” It means balance.

Except I’m pertaining to the fact that without the spec patch or any mention of it, Anet liked to ignore our call for our balance and being put on par with other classes. I’m pertaining to the fact of how ANet treats this class in terms of their “balance”.

^
Their, a fellow mes telling you how it is. It’s your fault if you don’t bring cleanses. Tell me again how we can spam mantra when there’s 5s cd per charge and the trait has 5s ICD. Learn to adjust to us, we are no longer an afterthought from before patch.

All in all, if it does gets nerfed, I just sorely hope it’s like Pyro’s suggestion and nothing over the top (as per Anet standards) like 20s ICD or 25% chance lol.

Just play thief and instagib us

It’s funny because pre-patch when we were at the bottom of the food chain, we asked Anet for “balance”. Now tell me, this before all the talks of the spec patch, what was the situation? Was Anet exhilarated on giving us balance without mention of the new specs? And now the people who are expecting balance post patch think that we won’t take a large hit while others take minor hits for the sake of “balance”.

I’m welcome to Anet proving me oh so wrong. But history says otherwise.

Mesmer nerfs: 4
Other class nerfs: 2

Anet: “Enginades and burn stacks are bugged? Better nerf Mesmer”

10/10 – IGN

oops wrong thread

Anet: Oh enginades and burning are bugged? Better nerf Mesmer.

Know what I found suspect? Enginades (Sidenote: have they been unreflectable even before patch? Right now they can’t be reflected, wtf, theyre projectiles) and burn stacks are obviously bugged, yet there’s still nothing addressed towards it, meanwhile we’ve already gotten 4 nerfs. lol?

Xyonon.3987:

Another QQ thread … There is no other profession forum community that is so extremly scared of tiny nerfs being followed by other tiny nerfs as the mesmer community. So we always agressivly open new threads to show ANet how terribly wrong they are to hope for a solution that will hit in the middle between “buff it” and “nerf it into the ground” to force them to “leave it alone” and achieve balance

Meanwhile please give me a list of classes which has had at least two nerfs over the past days after patch.

1) Easy would not be the term I would use since we still require more than two to three button presses and coordination (depends on build I suppose). To me the patch brought us on level with the other classes and made us less than an afterthought than we were before. Which is a plus for me.

2) New GMs are definitely a treat. The ones that were combined from pre-patch traits have been synergizing really well. So far I’m still build testing (so long as no major nerfs come right away I hope) but I really like the Power Block, Harmonious Mantras, and even Master of Fragmentation traits. Those were just at the top of my head, haven’t delved into Inspiration much yet. Although, that Scepter grandmaster trait feels like it could be more since it’s at that tier.

3) As much as people advocating that stealth is the reason for the 100-0 burst, it is not, however, I do agree that it does need a reduction to at least 75% and nothing less. The 100-0 burst damage is not unique to the Mesmer class therefore it is unfair to judge a single trait from a single class because of that. I suggest the devs to look at EVERY CLASS before making any major changes damage-wise.

4) It’s definitely great for lockdown as it still promotes skill in finding interrupts against opponents. This is in a great spot, please don’t change it. It’s been my dream build ever since I’ve wanted to force a Shatter Lockdown trait before the patch. And now I can!

5) I’m still twiddling with builds, but Inspiration definitely looks good for PvE and some team support play.

6) At the moment, as well as from the recent Chaotic Dampening nerf, I would argue that the two conditional cooldown traits (torch/staff) are close to garbage compared to a flat 20% reduction. Right now, for the staff, it requires TOO MUCH EFFORT in the form of maximizing rotations revolving one trait that does LESS than pre-patch effect. The devs need to look back at what they did to it.

7) New Mimic is great, it has great synergy with Master of Manipulation trait. Very happy with the rework.

8) The new slow on Time Warp I’m not too sure if enemies feel it at all. Although, the resistance and superspeed trait feel like an afterthought. Resistance is too short and SuperSpeed doesn’t really give much advantage over anything, it’s like you just walked over a dodge’s distance and that’s it. The two second duration increase on glamours is a welcome addition though.

9) Going up against mesmers still trying to get the feel of the new traits, it feels okay, granted everything has been upped in the offensive side with no counterbalance on the defensive within the patch so it’s not the Mesmer class’ fault for the insane burst. One of the main complaints is the Insta-stun-to-burst combo, stealth or no stealth doesn’t really matter. In that situation, I’m actually torn because I don’t want anything done to Confounding Suggestions trait since the stun durations and cooldowns feel fair, but at the same time, I hate having to sacrifice a Utility slot for stability to counteract it.

I, too, would like to thank the work put in in letting us be on par with every class so far. My only hope now is that when the dust settles after all the adjustments that we would still be level with the rest.

If I remember correctly it’s always been melee or bust in the PvE meta

TyPin.9860:

@Fay:
I agree my reaction was a bit over the top. But to your points (which are actually articulated):

1. I agree that shatter from long range is less powerful than melee range. That does not change the fact that you can do it. And still you can do considerable damage. At least that was my experience with the new trait system. I did not do the math on it. And doing a shatter from a save distance should be less powerful. I am not intentionally misleading and I am a bit offended that you claim so. But nonetheless, let’s move on.
2. Than I was lucky more than I deserved? Also stealth tracking with Mirror Blade and using GS #5 is a thing. Although it’s situational and requires skill. Point is, it is possible. Less so with a Mesmer, if she gained Aegis from PU (not sure of Mirror blade still tracks, if it got blocked by Aegis though). And it’s not only Mesmers fighting thieves. For warriors for instance, it is considerable easier to do Hammer burst to CC the thief in stealth if he doesn’t dodge it.
3. Thing is Backstab still needs to be closer to the target than any Mesmer burst. Including IP-Shatter and Mirror Blade. For a lack of a better word, I used the word “pattern”. The Thief is still at higher risk going so close and becomes better predictable than a Mesmer. You have more freedom of approach with a shatter burst, than with a Backstab. Additionally you can shatter as Mesmer literally when passing by. That’s very different for a Thief backstab. But I realize that this is actual the same point as #1.
4. The Mesmer can wait, he doesn’t have to. Phantasms still do damage during this time. It wouldn’t make sense to use this tactic all the time. You can alternate, when to do your burst. Point is, you can do the same damage with or without stealth, while Thief relies on getting his attack off while still in stealth. This additional freedom, that is offered to Mesmers, is what makes Thief burst and Mesmer burst so different. And giving Mesmer 6s instead of 4s stealth makes it so very easy for Mesmers to get their burst out.

@Caelus:
I do apologize for the words “emotional garbage”. That was uncalled for. However, I explained the points in my response to Fay. I personally think PU is too strong atm. It allows to get the burst out too easy, while leaving you at a very low risk of exposing yourself. A thief has to expose himself in melee range for his backstab. That might be less of an issue against Mesmers, but is very different against some other classes.

Fair enough. I’ve already voiced my opinion that PU should at least be at 75% instead. As for the argument that only mesmers should be punished with too much burst out of stealth, I will not stand for any nerf to that unless thieves are also looked at. The fact that they can do the same, if not more, damage out of stealth and them getting a pass for it while we get potentially targeted for a nerf? I cannot agree to that.

That’s kinda true though, I would have preferred if Fortitude stayed.

Applied Strength is also going to be taken away, just a note.

apharma.3741:

So answer my question which you selectively ignored. Give me one reason why it is acceptable that a thief can burst as high, if not more so, from stealth of an equal or greater length with a double stun (now basi venom is 2 charges base) and it is suddenly OP for mesmers to get a bit more stealth from a GM trait which doesn’t even compare to the amount of stealth a thief can stack for themselves and their party?

As for obsession with thieves, it’s only because they are the nearest comparison. Trust me if engineers had non damage blasts/leaps and 5s shaved off that smoke bomb you’d see more QQ about stealth attack engineers.

I, too, am actually curious on what your answer for this is, TyPin.

TyPin.9860:

@Caelus:
Decoy, Mimiced Decoy, MI and Torch. Those are 4 unconditional stealth skills, 2 of those with 0 cast time and 0 tells, one of them kinda with 1/4s cast time and only one of them with almost 2s cast time. What I have described were actual instances, which I have witnessed or what I had done myself.

You on the other hand talk about teleports, as if a main hand dagger thieve can teleport like a S/D. You give no credit for gap closing and initiative cost in your responses. Thus, your statements were weirdly out of proportion. Especially considering Thieves not only face Mesmers, but also Guardians for instance. Where going melee brings them in actual immediate danger even when cloaked.

@Loxsus:
I do hope so too that ANet doesn’t jump to overly eager balancing changes. And I am aware of the possibility that I might be wrong regarding PU. However, I am not really frustrated or even venting about the game. But the tendency of some seems to be: criticize Mesmer trait and you are trying to take down the profession as a whole. Which is obviously not my aim for I myself main Mesmer.

Do remind me how often you can recast those mesmer skills in comparison to how thieves can on theirs. Like I said, you gave your situations, I gave mine. Tbh I don’t know where this argument of ours is going. Are you trying to advocate for mesmer nerfs while not considering the fact that the other classes are in dire need as well? Cause that’s where my problem lies. If it’s not obvious enough with all my posts, I will not stand for any nerfs that are not correlated with other classes. If I have to be nerfed, so do the others. But in all honesty, I fear that will not be the case.

TyPin.9860:

@Vieux P:
I don’t understand your argument.

@Caelus:
Really? I am at least trying to stay a bit more objective here. If you but throw useless emotional garbage at me and act like thieves have no limitations at all, then the discussion is worthless. The only thing you did was answer back to me figuratively: “Thieves can do anything”.

I don’t see any emotional spurt there. You gave your situations, I gave mine. The only thing you did was give me situations figuratively: “Mesmers can do anything” You yourself make it sound like our stealth abilities don’t go on cooldown once we come out of it.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again. I will only accept nerfcries if they are applied for everyone, not just devs using us as scapegoats for their definition of “balance”.

I’m not saying you can’t juke thieves into diving either, but chances are if it’s a good thief you’re gonna be desperate in doing so.

TyPin.9860:

Caelus.7139:

TyPin.9860:

snap

Do tell me how this is any different than a thief’s backstab out of nowhere mechanic.

Alright:

• Thief backstab needs to be in melee range. Mesmer shatter can be melee to increase damage, but doesn’t need to be. It can come from any direction and a very long range even.
• Thief can be pushed or pulled during stealth to prevent him from getting to you. Often this results in stealth wearing off (in my experience at least). Mesmer with PU has a good chance the pull will get blocked due to aegis.
• Backstab always works in the same patterns. Mesmer burst from stealth has way more possibilities (like dodge baiting via phantasms), which only increase with additional stealth time.
• Thief gets revealed from Backstab. Mesmer can time shatter just when his stealth wears off, preventing him from being revealed.

Now does this all only apply to PU builds only? No it doesn’t. But with PU builds it is made considerably more easy to execute to a point where I think it is too easy.

1) It’s like you haven’t seen how a thief ports in and out with ease, is this point for real?
2) You push and pull him, ok. CnD, and you’re back to square one. I’d say your Aegis argument had value, too bad it’s not 100% chance.
3) Stealth Immob spam.
4) If Mes misses, your stealth CDs are down whether you have PU or not. Your saving grace is if you have torch and weap swap or decoy on near 3s timer. Backstab reveal? That only procs if it hits, which usually means you’re down to half or less than half health. Say hello to 10k Heartseeker.

You act like thieves don’t have 10s allboons that they can now store whcih the devs continually ignore and consider “balanced” either.

Is there a name for this syndrome? Can I coin it the Mesmer Syndrome?

But tbh here’s my analogy. If anybody here can relate on the Batman vs Superman thing. Before, Mesmers were like Batman and almost every other class was Superman. We liked to be divisive, tricky and “intellectual” even if our power was far inferior we know we could do something. But all of a sudden we were turned into a Superman like almost every other class. For some reason people don’t like it and want to be turned back into Batman. In the perfect balanced GW2 world, everyone is a Batman. But now everybody is Superman, and Batman doesn’t like it.

Man this fear of nerfhammers is doing funny things to my head ):

phokus.8934:

LunarNacht.8913:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Windwalker.7421:

The attached SS speaks for itself.

- Unlucky steal 2.5k (NP)
- C&D over 6k (OUCH!)
- into an over 11k BS

All that was near instant. Then came a 10k Heart Seeker at the end just to add insult to injury.

I’m so glad we got MtD nerfed! It was obviously OUT OF CONTROL!!!!

Did you dodge any skill?

Tell me how you dodge instant steal possibly out of stealth and backstab completly out of stealth? The only skill he could have dodge was CnD. Of course you can always do a lucky random dodge…

When a thief goes into stealth, you should almost always know that they will follow up with a back stab/steal/cnd, etc. Positioning yourself or baiting that out into a dodge/blurred frenzy is what most people should be doing.

Against thieves, it’s a proactive game play approach, not so much reactive.

Yea cause you can totally guess when they will hit. Everytime you dodge or blurred frenzy, it would totally juke a good thief with no fail and not make them think “oh I’m just gonna wait for him to do his dodges and invulns and won’t do a stun steal>consume plasma, blind or stealth immob before I go in”. Yep.

dietzero.3514:

Did Josh ever explain why Main the Disillusioned was nerfed?

Yea, from what I’ve read, they tested it on those standing golems in PvP and got scared of the stacks and deemed it OP. lol

WvW is still weird cause they haven’t gotten rid of Applied Fortitude and Strength yet.

Jordy.1436:

Caelus.7139:

You guys complaining about PU act like you guys never seen thief lol. gtfo here
Stacking stealth doesn’t really do crap, it’s only good for disengaging. But I’m for those who want it to have it at least 75%.

Most mesmers don’t like PU because it is so thief like! And it’s definitely more then just good for disengaging

If they don’t like it then it’s pretty easy for them to not use it. I already said I’m all for a 75% adjustment. Anything lower I won’t agree on unless they do something to the apparently “non OP thieves”, or those instagib AoE trap rangers that people don’t look at cause they’re the norm, whereas they can’t even adjust to the new mesmer.

TyPin.9860:

@Arshay Duskbrow:
No, PU in the current state is ridiculous. Anyone and their mothers can utilize a PU conid or PU shatter build and own the others while having a huge survivability. No one said stealth shouldn’t be a part of Mesmer gameplay. But currently it is just zoo much of it. It allows no real counter play and you are simply bursted down out of stealth, without any indication what so ever. Thief stealth and burst can be in many instances anticipated, but Mesmer stealth can’t. This is why it needs to be tuned down a notch.

And before you say anything. I main Mesmer myself and tried PU for some time now… it is just out of control and I refuse to use this trait now, because winning with it is neither skill full nor does it feel satisfying.

If ANet would leave PU alone, they would need to nerf the hell out of other traits, to bring PU builds in line. And this will cause other non PU builds to be below mediocre. That should not be the end result.

Do tell me how this is any different than a thief’s backstab out of nowhere mechanic.

Baddies need to learn to adjust to us now. We are no longer an afterthought. Get used to it.

Is what I would say without the impending nerfdoom that’s to come in the next few weeks cause of nerfcriers. If this goes on we’ll get nerfed back to the shatter mes as only viable and then OP will become even more true lol.

You guys complaining about PU act like you guys never seen thief lol. gtfo here
Stacking stealth doesn’t really do crap, it’s only good for disengaging. But I’m for those who want it to have it at least 75%.

Related thread. I will only accept nerfs to us if this crap gets nerfed too.

Exciton.8942:

I’m still gonna cry for a consume plasma nerf. Way too strong with improvisation.

And now, I’m not 100% sure about this, but I think they can do it twice now since they can hold a steal and have another steal ready.

So yea, Anet balance logic:
-Chaotic Dampening too OP, need to nerf hard
-Consume Plasma too balanced, it’s so balanced that thief should be able to use it twice

Xyonon.3987:

This will only need other played to actually counterplay you. A dodged shatter is still 0 dmg. The only thing changed is that a weak shatter vs careless ppl turned into a good shatter vs careless ppl.
What’s coming next is that those careless ppl become careful – thus – balance.

Sadly what’ll happen next most likely is just Anet’s nerfhammers. =/

Vieux P.1238:

Caelus.7139:

I miss the reflect on blurred frenzy…

holly cow dude, really..? I mean the new reflect is awesome & works finally well. But dang, you have to time it well or get 1 shoted.

It was really great against pewpewrangers back then, and often times those pesky stealth immob sb thieves. I used it quite often so have to adjust now x_x

I miss the reflect on blurred frenzy…

Michal.4513:

What you mean by Crushing? You mean that
Shatter combo on 11k hp target or 3x Power block to deal 15k dmg?

Its stupid call thing liek other can do. Thiev can 2 shoot me, but when i can 3 shoot him with itnerupts, cos HS is easy to itnerupt its unfair balance… i rly tired of commnity in this game…

It’s easy to interrupt cause brain dead thieves just spam spam spam

Alright fair enough. Cheers to the upcoming tumultuous weeks.

If thieves can melt us I don’t see why we can’t. Besides I’ll never stop nagging on Anet’s ability to nerf/balance as long as that horrid Consume Plasma stays.

It’s not that I’m asking the devs not to nerf us at all, its inevitable. But their approach and activity is horrendous. What I expect is for them to look at EVERY class and not just us. The first few patches haven’t shown any good indication. I’m just hoping they prove me wrong.

This is the first time that I felt where other classes had to adjust to us as opposed to us adjusting to them all the time. But I feel thing will go back to the way they were before revamp where we’re nerfed to oblivion while other classes get a pass cause “balance”.

I wish I had your optimism. Sadly Anet has robbed me of it.

tobascodagama.2961:

ResJudicator.7916:

But mesmer damage feels very over the top right now.

It only feels that way because we’re used to having the short end of the stick. What actually happened is that we’re finally in line with everybody else.

A thousand times this. Too long has it been where we have always had to adjust to every class. It’s high time they adjusted to us. That or I simply ask the devs to look at EVERY CLASS and not just us before they decide to nerf things.

Josh Davis.6015:

Wanted to clear something up:

Power Block had its damage unintentionally increased with the 6/23 release. The reduction wasn’t a “nerf” – it was a bug fix. It still does the same damage it did before the 6/23 release.

As for Maimed, we wanted to address it before the build went out but we ran out of time. I agree that it would have been better to have adjusted it before you guys got your hands on the new build, but there just wasn’t time. Sorry about this.

For staff cd trait – conditional recharge is something new we’re trying out. The high cd reduction uptime that we were seeing right out of the gate wasn’t something we felt comfortable with. If it feels really weak after this we’ll come back to it and look at it again.

Anyways, as Peters said, we’re keeping a really close eye on everything right now and things will definitely continue to shift as we discover and evaluate how things take shape across the game.

Hope that addresses a few of your questions.

Night!

Like I said in another thread regarding Chaotic Dampening. We are now forced to do SOMETHING (maybe even revolve our rotations just to accompany a SINGLE trait) just to maximize the effect of the trait that is WORSE prior to the revamp while other classes just stand around with better traits that don’t need any active thought. WHERE’S THE BALANCE IN THAT?

We’d be less volatile if you guys found faults in every class and not just kneejerking on ours as other posters here have indicated.

I swear this whole revamp thing feels rushed just cause you guys felt the need to compete against Heavensward’s release. But hey, that’s just my opinion.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Caelus.7139:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

rchu.8945:

Exciton.8942:

Pride.1734:

So i haven’t found a link to any nerfs or felt a difference. My Mesmer still feels downright broken in PvP/WvW. Then again i only play power shatter and oneshot anything that isn’t built full tank since the patch.

Because currently the damage from mesmer is indeed too high and it WILL be tune down.

However, this has nothing to do with chaotic dampening. After other nerfs come in, you will realized how bad some of these earlier nerfs are.

As if other classes not doing tons of damage? Fact is majority of the nerfs are directed at Mesmers, while other classes get the free pass.

We got nerfed because we desperately need it. We need more nerfs atm (Blind on shatter, confounding, free 15% phant damage, and PU) to be even close to in line with the other classes. We are far and away above every class right now.

The only one I would agree with you that needs nerfing is PU. The others you’ve listed seem like welcome additions that are on par with other classes. and their own additions.

My iwarlock does at minimum 7k and at most 13k and my izerker does at least 6-8k every time which is a bit ridiculous. Blind on shatter only needs to not go through evade and its fine. Confounding needs a cd increase or counterplay. PU needs to be 25% stealth duration increase. Otherwise I don’t think anything else needs to be changed from what I have seen.

Those damage numbers compared to staple abilities of other classes such as Backstab and 100blades seem fine to me. Didn’t know Blind on shatter went through evade, I guess that’s undesrtandable. And if Warriors can still CC-lock with hammer I don’t see why we can’t with Confounding.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

rchu.8945:

Exciton.8942:

Pride.1734:

So i haven’t found a link to any nerfs or felt a difference. My Mesmer still feels downright broken in PvP/WvW. Then again i only play power shatter and oneshot anything that isn’t built full tank since the patch.

Because currently the damage from mesmer is indeed too high and it WILL be tune down.

However, this has nothing to do with chaotic dampening. After other nerfs come in, you will realized how bad some of these earlier nerfs are.

As if other classes not doing tons of damage? Fact is majority of the nerfs are directed at Mesmers, while other classes get the free pass.

We got nerfed because we desperately need it. We need more nerfs atm (Blind on shatter, confounding, free 15% phant damage, and PU) to be even close to in line with the other classes. We are far and away above every class right now.

The only one I would agree with you that needs nerfing is PU. The others you’ve listed seem like welcome additions that are on par with other classes. and their own additions.

TheGuy.3568:

Caelus.7139:

TheGuy.3568:

FZeroWing.2098:

So I recently decided to main mesmer and I came to these forums expecting a lot of excited threads with how mesmer has become really good. However, instead all I seem to see are threads with a lot of whining about the BUFFS?!!

I don’t understand this, could someone clear this up as to why these buffs are bad? Before when I visited these forums it was posts complaining about why mesmer has been nerfed and was not very strong, but now it’s the opposite… I find this kind of ridiculous.

I personally thing this is where mesmers should be, it makes them closer to GW1 mesmers and it’s put them at the tier they really needed to be.

I may not main my mesmer but you should read the first thing you said and think a bit.

Now people get all kitteny about class forums and who post where but let me break it down to you. We are at he point where some players have invested loads of time on their favorite class purely because they enjoy it. Many of them win or lose have been honing their skills. There is a sense of pride in beating a player using a cheese build that should have beat you on skill alone.

The problem is a great deal of players do not think like this. They play what they know they will win on. In there lies the rub. You have a medium good player who got good at a class/build who now has the tools to strictly dominate other players. For months if not years they have played a build that required a certain amount of skill but now they can beat opponents they had issues with with ease.

You said, “So I recently decided to main mesmer”, but how many times across many class forums have we seen the, “So I recently decided to main x” statement after a major buff? Too many. Memsers aren’t masochist they just want the feeling of beating some one based on skill. I main engineer but refuse to use incendiary powder until burning in general is re-balanced. I am not some masochist but some of the luster is gone when the wins come too easy. Now while the world screams “Nerf!” (because they are losing) some players want nerfs/ rebalancing because its not fun anymore. This might be over some of your heads because the mere sight of a nerf warrants an angry post in your opinions.

Some players love their class so much they actually want to see it balanced and not OP. Novel idea isn’kitten

I won’t say I’m sure, but why do I feel like thieves don’t even come close to thinking like this. Because I for one am the opposite of your description of Mesmer mains. I’m tired of getting the short end of the stick. What I complain about is not about the nerfs and however unfair they are, but the fact that when it comes to drastic changes, most of the time it’s the mesmers that get hit hard due to nerfcries and only some times on other classes.

You can’t make a blanket statement about thieves. Many lobbied for nerfs early on for this same reason. They just got forced back into burst and for many (including my SP thief) this has been one of the worst patches for a class I know I could still win on if I played DP.

Every class feels like they got the short end of the stick at some point. The difference is realizing when you have been buffed too much. That takes time but the only people who could really say it feel off are those who main the class. The best rule of thumb is if you stop having trouble handling builds that used to challenge you, you see to consistently win (where you didn’t before), or wins are simply too easy.

Mesmers for a long time along with some non HGH (when HGH was still good) engies, and some ele builds actually required a good deal of skill to pull off. There was a great deal of knowledge that went into winning. Right now too many builds (not just mesmer’s its wide spread) are moving away from skill. Its problematic across the board. This is much more of a shared issue than a, “NERF THIS CLASS ITS SO OP!”. Anet tweaked in a bad way for everybody.

Well, it’ll be the long run where we can judge whichever situation is the majority then. I’ll give it around two, three weeks. But so far, Anet has struck already, first “fix” patch has been fixes for other classes while we’ve already gotten two nerfs and one for Engi (I think? Just read somewhere). The tally is on.

Anet rebuilding the mesmer ship just to sink it again.

TheGuy.3568:

FZeroWing.2098:

So I recently decided to main mesmer and I came to these forums expecting a lot of excited threads with how mesmer has become really good. However, instead all I seem to see are threads with a lot of whining about the BUFFS?!!

I don’t understand this, could someone clear this up as to why these buffs are bad? Before when I visited these forums it was posts complaining about why mesmer has been nerfed and was not very strong, but now it’s the opposite… I find this kind of ridiculous.

I personally thing this is where mesmers should be, it makes them closer to GW1 mesmers and it’s put them at the tier they really needed to be.

I may not main my mesmer but you should read the first thing you said and think a bit.

Now people get all kitteny about class forums and who post where but let me break it down to you. We are at he point where some players have invested loads of time on their favorite class purely because they enjoy it. Many of them win or lose have been honing their skills. There is a sense of pride in beating a player using a cheese build that should have beat you on skill alone.

The problem is a great deal of players do not think like this. They play what they know they will win on. In there lies the rub. You have a medium good player who got good at a class/build who now has the tools to strictly dominate other players. For months if not years they have played a build that required a certain amount of skill but now they can beat opponents they had issues with with ease.

You said, “So I recently decided to main mesmer”, but how many times across many class forums have we seen the, “So I recently decided to main x” statement after a major buff? Too many. Memsers aren’t masochist they just want the feeling of beating some one based on skill. I main engineer but refuse to use incendiary powder until burning in general is re-balanced. I am not some masochist but some of the luster is gone when the wins come too easy. Now while the world screams “Nerf!” (because they are losing) some players want nerfs/ rebalancing because its not fun anymore. This might be over some of your heads because the mere sight of a nerf warrants an angry post in your opinions.

Some players love their class so much they actually want to see it balanced and not OP. Novel idea isn’kitten

I won’t say I’m sure, but why do I feel like thieves don’t even come close to thinking like this. Because I for one am the opposite of your description of Mesmer mains. I’m tired of getting the short end of the stick. What I complain about is not about the nerfs and however unfair they are, but the fact that when it comes to drastic changes, most of the time it’s the mesmers that get hit hard due to nerfcries and only some times on other classes.

Toeofdoom.6152:

Uh, it was up to 64% cool down reductions and permanent protection. There was definitely a reason.

But I’m sure 2% doesn’t do it justice.

Xenon.4537:

Caelus.7139:

Exciton.8942:

I knew this when they announced chronomancer will get alacrity.
The end result: Mesmer will need alacrity application to be just on-par with other profession cooldowns.

Which is complete BS since that means all that required effort to get the same result as other professions who just sit with their traits on.

We are turning into elementalists… Press 3x as many buttons to achieve the same result as warriors and rangers who get to spam 1 with all their passives. In fact just look at engie right now. They got some ridiculous passives now…

Exactly. Like honestly, the Chaotic Dampening trait, we have to DO SOMETHING to enable the trait, and now from what I’ve gathered it’s worse than the flat 20% CD we had before? So now we have to put effort in using something that was less effective than before?

Soon enough, in the end, all we’ll have will be shatters again. And people will complain that all we have are shatters.

Again.
(pre Chrono, but who knows what would happen then, I wouldn’t bet against it happening the same lol)

Yep. This forum hides some sick masochists. Don’t worry, Anet is already on the nerftrain mesmer express, soon we’ll be back to asking for fixes and buffs and all will be well in mesmer world.