Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

If you think thieves do too much dmg, check other classes…. i got shattered for 13k in 1 hit for example; no thief hit me as hard yet~

I’m sure you mean 4 hits right, as in 4 times Mind Wrack?

However it doesn’t matter how much damage thief can deal if they go into CS. 11k hp with zerker amulet and very limited condi removal doesn’t sound like fun in a team fight. PvP in Guild Wars 2 is a team game, so please consider survivability as well.

I’m not saying im doubting you guys, just please consider group play.

Hi Jake,

As someone also mentionened here, if the good is skilled he should never die to a mesmer unless he gets shutdown by immobilize, daze etc.

But when fighting thiefs, chaos storm and chaos armor is your best friend. The daze from chaos storm is worth gold if you are lucky to daze a stealth or heal and the chaos armor make them miss about 33 % of their attacks.

GS burst and shatter is also really effective, even though some specs can easily avoid it by dodging.

But really mesmers big weakness is condis and burst, so dont expect to win every fight.

Cheers

blitzkrieg.2451:

Regarding GVG compositions, what needs to be discussed is why 80% of the raid force consists of warriors and guardians moreso than why is there only 2 mesmers. Some classes just don’t fit the style of GVG formats. Some perfectly fit the style of GVG’s (warriors/staff ele/guardians). Necros only work because of this fact, so their existence in GVG is predicated on the fact that warriors/guardians are OP in GVG formats. Mesmers barely fit gvg’s, while engis and rangers don’t fit the style at all – they’re build for smaller group roaming (mesmer is good in this format too). GVGing is just one format in a game mode that caters to a small group of classes. It seems like from the discussion you’ve been having is, you want the same presence as warriors/guardians , to be able to tank like a heavy class, blast finishers like a heavy class , stability uptime like guardians/warriors but you’re not a heavy class, you’re a light class with specific unique roles to what you can do, Fay calls it veilbotting but I’ve seen 100’s of GVG’s and have been in enough to know that mesmers do much more than just veilbot. Yes, veil is an important skill much like a guardians hammer blast finisher is an important skill, much like a necro well is a unique skill, much like a warrior’s immobilization to setup burst is a unique skill but those skills don’t make the up the only reason why they exist in GVG’s…

WALL OF TEXT INC:

Wauw seems like you put a big chunk on that post. About GvG composition being 80 % war and guard. I guess that you are exaggerating to make your point. Which guilds are running 80 % guards and warriors in GvG? Realistically you must mean 50 or 60 % right?

So where I think mesmer is in it’s current state, and this is from an WvW GvG shatter mesmer point of view, is that it has different roles:

- A support role, we support with the VERY important skill Veil. I don’t have anything against being what other people call a “veil bot”. Veil is one of the most powerful skills in WvW as it sets up your positioning and burst from stealth. Very very powerful and no group should be without it. Other support skills some use are Nullfield and Portal, however portal is not really used much by WvW guilds or in GvG.

- A DPS role, and here i would like two make two examples:
1. In GvG most mesmers run in the focus party harassing enemy casters like eles, necros and the enemy focus party. What I found very powerfull here was the immobilize on sword setting up the burst from the focus party. After the bug fix, this may very well still be viable (havent GvG’ed since the fix so havent really tested it in action)
2. In a guild raid where you potentially fight a large number of enemies I liked to coordinate my shatter burst with the melee train. This was mostly possible due to the AoE immobilize on sword. This is however not really possible anymore because realistically your clone would die in the massive AoE damage that exists in large groups. Now you can still do this without the teleport from the clone using blink when engaging. Now the nerfing of BF meant that retaliation together with this burst now was a real threat that in some cases would one shot you. You could combat this by Distorting (F4 shatter).

What we face here is, in order to do damage as a mesmer you pop a lot of your cooldowns, in this case blink and distortion, and this makes you a very easy target for enemies after the initial push.

This is just some of the areas where is becomes harder and harder to furfill another role than utility support and this can be very frustating when yo have been playing a class for two years and really seen what it can do in organized WvW. I don’t find mesmer unviable at all in GvG’s, it is a very important part of the focus team while providing utility support, but in bigger fights is seems to get harder and harder to survive and still be useful with your group.

To answer the part about wanting to be able to tank like a heavy class, blast finishers like a heavy class , stability uptime like guardians/warriors, I don’t think anyone said that and I don’t think any serious mesmer wants that. Did they say that? Be honest now…

Sorry for the rambling, let me know what you think
/Archiae

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

lol no we dont we use necros thief squad and maybe 1 mes for veil at the start in a lot of guild that are good in gvg. and im in tier 2 so yeah. thief>mes. maybe in 20v20 u can afford 2 mes but in 15v15 u use maaaaybe 1 mes and 2 thieves a couple of eles and the rest is heavy train. but honestly engi is taking over the ganking in gvg’s lately way more with the thieves.

What guild would ever use engi in a gank group? What the kitten lol. I watch [Agg] play consistently. They run 3 mesmers at times but usually 2 in their gank with 2 thieves. I watch [NS] gvg consistently, they the same. I watch [EP] gvg consistently they the same. [Ark] is the same. Similarities between these? All top tier GvG guilds. [Agg] is probably the best GvG guild in the game currently and arguably with [NS] as they’re sort of neck and neck. They run multiple mesmers in their gank. Please don’t try to spill mis-information. Just because some random kittenty guild is running 1 mes and decided to run engi doesn’t automatically make it viable or good. Also, necros belong with the train because wells are op to counter train, and the warriors peel while guardians blob – what necro would run with the gank, and what guild would put an engi in their gank? Wow

Hi, I’m Ex [Agg], [Ark], and [NS] due to no time to play this game anymore. I can tell you right now every single Mesmer from the guilds you mentioned (I know all of them) are veryyyyy annoyed at this skill getting bug fixed. The clone in gvgs will usually insta die when it gets to your target so pre-patch they were still able to immbo and then burst. Now that the ileap is unreliable a lot of them are trying to figure out if sword is still worth it which is a key reason you take mesmers In gvg (since the immbo sets up the burst from the focus party). Your information is correct pre-patch that agg and NS took multiple mesmers. However, post patch I am not sure how many mesmers NS will continue to run. After all, Blurred Frenzy will kill yourself due to retal and the Ileap is too unreliable to trust now.

You MUST be wrong. How can Blitzkrieg that have watched a lot of [Agg], [NS] and [Ark] Raids and GvG’s be wrong?

Oh in what WvW guild did you say you played mesmer again Blitzkrieg? just curious.
It seems like other mesmers that play in WvW guilds are wrong and you are right. weird…

Btw here is my guild resume: Far Shiverpeak Vanguard [FSV], Dius Vanguard [DiVa] and One of the Few [OF]. I guess my lack of WvW experience makes my opinions about the mesmer in WvW and GvG wrong.

/Archiae

blitzkrieg.2451:

Chrhal.4983:

blitzkrieg.2451:

There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down. You need the frontline more than necros. But yea, mesmer and necro thief and staff ele serve a unique purpose while warriors/guardian have a general purpose that’s unique to what they can do, if mesmers didn’t do anything other than being in gank then you would have just thieves, which doesn’t exist because it doesn’t work. They’re not being tagged along for nothing and they’re not included in the gvg format because people feel sorry for them, they provide a role and a unique purpose to the gvg.

Your argument is that mesmer doesn’t belong in the frontline/train, of course it doesn’t , it would die, it’s the exact same with thief and staff ele and it’s not because it doesn’t provide anything, its that it literally can’t survive in those train pushes. Staff ele doesn’t even run in the train and necro BARELY runs in the train.

Lol, have you ever gvg’d before?

Wow really? This is the kind of attitude that make people hate the forums. Well in your other posts you seem to praise the top guilds in GvG like [Agg] and [NS] (your words). Maybe it would be interesting to have a look at this thread:

http://www.gw2wvw.net/topic/agg-meta

In short (20v20): 6 guardians, 4 warriors, 1 d/d elementalist, 4 necromancers, 3 staff elementalists, 1 thief and 1 mesmer.

What you dont seem to understand is that necromancers together with staff eles provide a very vital part of the GvG, AoE damage. But since you most likely know a lot more about GvG than I do (because lol I have never gvg’d before) I will ask you this question:

If thiefs also had veil, what would you pick for the focus team (gank squad as it seems to be called in NA)? I know what I would pick.

Oh and by the way: “There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down”. /blitzkrieg.2451

I tend to disagree…

They ran 2 mes against TA (eu team aggression), 2 mes against NS just the other day in the same day. You can see it on Chemsorly’s stream but yes their typical setup may be that. Still doesn’t change the fact that mesmers provide a unique role and they did provide a unique role far more than just being veilbots in the gvg’s against TA and NS. They did quite a bit actually.

You seem to have ignored the question about thiefs in the “gank squad”, but since people don’t want this thread to be about GvG setups, let’s just leave it at that.

I main mesmer, in GvG’s, and it will get a lot harder to focus the burst of the focus team now that the immobilize from sword is dependant on the clone surviving. It was not like you could dodge it or anything, oh wait…

blitzkrieg.2451:

There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down. You need the frontline more than necros. But yea, mesmer and necro thief and staff ele serve a unique purpose while warriors/guardian have a general purpose that’s unique to what they can do, if mesmers didn’t do anything other than being in gank then you would have just thieves, which doesn’t exist because it doesn’t work. They’re not being tagged along for nothing and they’re not included in the gvg format because people feel sorry for them, they provide a role and a unique purpose to the gvg.

Your argument is that mesmer doesn’t belong in the frontline/train, of course it doesn’t , it would die, it’s the exact same with thief and staff ele and it’s not because it doesn’t provide anything, its that it literally can’t survive in those train pushes. Staff ele doesn’t even run in the train and necro BARELY runs in the train.

Lol, have you ever gvg’d before?

Wow really? This is the kind of attitude that make people hate the forums. Well in your other posts you seem to praise the top guilds in GvG like [Agg] and [NS] (your words). Maybe it would be interesting to have a look at this thread:

http://www.gw2wvw.net/topic/agg-meta

In short (20v20): 6 guardians, 4 warriors, 1 d/d elementalist, 4 necromancers, 3 staff elementalists, 1 thief and 1 mesmer.

What you dont seem to understand is that necromancers together with staff eles provide a very vital part of the GvG, AoE damage. But since you most likely know a lot more about GvG than I do (because lol I have never gvg’d before) I will ask you this question:

If thiefs also had veil, what would you pick for the focus team (gank squad as it seems to be called in NA)? I know what I would pick.

Oh and by the way: “There’s the same amount of necros in a gvg as mesmers by the way, just 2 necros in a train and 2 mesmers in gank in standard top guilds. Any more necros and you’re muddying it down”. /blitzkrieg.2451

I tend to disagree…

Offair.2563:

Try and drag lord to a corner and stand on it and try and fend off anyone who comes to close. I have no problem at all with chain hardressing a boss with banners or signets. It makes the fight lasts longer then 1 min. If you cant keep em away from the lords to banner it, you simply dont deserve the cap and its a win for the defenders.

If your fights don’t last more than 1 minute without using some spammable ressurection of a NPS i feel sorry for you. And about not deserving to take the keep. If you can’t hold of your attackers without ressurrection a NPC, do you deserve to keep it?

Ressurection of the lord is the most easy thing when you play a class like the warrior. How do you propose to keep ex. a warrior away from the lord when using stability and endure pain, not even talking about more than one. Honestly it is very easy to ressurect the lord if you know just a little bit about your skills.

I have experienced many of these so-called “fights” where the lord is ressurrected countless of times and I am sure most WvW guilds would agree that it is not really a fight, more than farming of enemies coming from waypoint every time it opens.

Lets get skillful fights and not fights based on random spammable mechanics.

Honestly it doesn’t bother me much. If a player feels the need to whisper you afterwards its just a better win for you, and you can always ignore the player (theres no need to whisper back).

Actually its kind of fun some times

I like how this a post made by warriors, in the warrior forum describing why they are not overpowered.

Where is warrior not a great choice? PvE, PvP, WvW?

1. Do they have great sustained damage?
2. Do the have great toughness?
3. Do they have a large health pool?
4. Do they have good burst?
5. Do they have good condition cleanse?
6. Are they good at dealing with enemy boons?
7. Do they have good CC?
8. Do they have good access to stability?
9. Do they have great healing?
10. Do they have great in combat and out of combat mobility?

…and yes you could include almost all of these into one build. (I think you could come up with that without my help).

Just saying, I’m not one of those crying for hard warrior nerfs, i’d rather see a retweaking of how some of the traits and abilities work together. However claming that you can’t EASILY get access to the 10 above points is just wrong in my opinion. If you can convince me otherwise, I’d love to be wrong.

Also I think some of you may have misunderstood what combat is. To win a fight in guild wars, generally you have to play better than your opponent (I know in some cases there can be hard counters). So saying that warrior was in a bad state before because you had to outsmart other classes to win, is kind of a joke. There may be other reasons for why the warrior was in a weak state before, but that you had to play better than your opponent to win is not one of them.

/Archiae

Reviving this thread as it seems to have died from retaliation.

Jokes aside this is a very important point and I would like some developers to read this thread and see what they think about the current state of the WvW raid mesmer, not the PvP mesmer or the WvW roaming mesmer.

Killface.1896:

Most fun in WvW are the long keep fights,you guys got 21min of PvP thx to warrior banners….

Want to get keeps without hard fights just go pve zone EoTM

What I would like is skillful fights and not random mindless farming of people coming from the waypoint whenever it opens. Random bannering from people comming from waypoint just to prevent a cap, from a group you can’t kill or keep out is not skillful in any way. And as other people also pointed out, bannering (ressing by other skills, whatever!) the lord is the most easy thing in the world.

I can ask you guys that think that if you can’t keep players from ressing the lord, then you don’t deserve to cap the keep. If you can’t kill the group and prevent capping without ressing the lord multiple times (and I mean many many times) do you deserve to keep it?

I agree that keeps should be harder to get into. Especially with the bigger and bigger groups we see in WvW.

ozzy.8059:

BlackDevil.9268:

Crossplay.2067:

Curunen.8729:

BF is one skill – plenty of other skills that can cause you to eat retal damage.

Multi-hit attacks are where retaliation truly shines. If you nerf it here, warriors will want it nerfed for 100-blades and thieves for Unload. Again, Retaliation would lose its meaning as a countermeasure.

I would agree with you if we had other forms of being useful against blobs, but sadly mesmer has to rely on immunty’s and evades. Not like warrior who can facetank everything with 30k hp, massive armor and good stability upkeep. Then also, 100b hits much harder, hits slower to easier to react to the damage and as mentioned before, is not a requirement to cast to bomb with the melee.
As for unload, thats a single target skill. You don’t get affected by multiple retal damage.

As for those who say I can’t look at if they have retal on or not; in an environment with 25v50, you’re not gonna check every person if they have retaliation on or not cause 90% will have it on, especially melee. If there would be other ways of applying reasonable amount of damage against blobs i’d love to hear it.

I can kill someone who facetanks me on a warrior I cant kill someone who evades my attacks constantly and hides in stealth*while still being able to cast damaging skills(weapon phantasms)* so please send all the non stealth abuse classes at me.. they are actually fair! at least thief needs to get near me.

if its a l2p issue please tell me how to track down a Mesmer who unloads all their clones from range then pops stealth the second I get near them teleports and resets constantly combine this with chaos shield and storm and the clone spam from the staff forcing me to hit their clones I would love to hear it

ps im not on a warrior so I cant just go kitten hammer stun lockdown yay I winsies….

I think you need to read the thread one more time. And ask yourself these questions while you do it.

1. Was the topic about small scale roaming, 1v1’s or big organized group play like ZvZ and GvG. (Hint: its not number 1 and 2)

2. If you got the first one correct (which i think you did) how many phantasms do you think you can keep up in that fight (again its not number 1 or 2 in question 1)

3. Can you do glamour damage from away and then midlessly stealth away from the fight and watch your group win. (I think you get that one)

4. When you placed your veil, which is mainly why you are there, what are you suposed to do now? (Hint its not “evade your attacks constantly and hide in stealth*while still being able to cast damaging skills(weapon phantasms)”, because they don’t work) oops giveaway for question 3 right there.

In conclusion, please read the thread before commenting.

…yeah 2 years seems about right

There seems to be a bug with the iWarden sometimes when focus is traited (Warden’s Feedback (VIII in Inspiration)). The same bug seems to happen in some fractals. Do you have that trait?

It should work flawlessly without that trait, at least it does for me.

While I enjoy shatter mesmer more, I have played a decent amount of PU mesmer.

There aren’t really any traits that goes well with PU in the Chaos trait line. However there are some good alternatives that can increase your damage output or your survivability.

Master of Manipulation (III) – increase your survivability, don’t say no to more Blink!

Bountiful Interruption (VIII) – increase of your survivability and damage – don’t say no to more boons!

Debilitating Dissipation (V) – increase of your survivabilty – clones getting killed increases your damage!

I tend to go with (III) and (VIII) with pistol instead of torch. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhEQNAsaRnsISZa2oGGpB3aGx3AMdLUIJlEA-T1RDwAJeCgSweK/ep+T+9HApPAg5PJnCAA-w

That being said, when you have tried shatter mesmer and are used to building up your burst (faceslam F1, F2, F3!) there is no coming back!

Welcome to the dark side!

Cool idea! Maybe that would bring some focus on underwater combat, which is like 0,1 % of the game right now.

Very good OP I must say. You touch on some very important problems in the confusion mesmer against zergs. I would say in unorganized zerging, with not as much condi-cleanse, the condi mesmer could work. However as others also mentionen, the better the group becomes the more condi cleanse and smaller effect of condis.

About the boon strip shatter mesmer: When Ansau is talking about boon stripping I think he means, besides nullfield, the fact that shatters removes boons.

If you can talk about a “meta” build for guild group mesmers, I think the boon strip shatter is that. Most guild groups run this. It can be quite effective, but it requires high skill. You can actually manage to get 3 clones up and shatter them with blurred frenzy, and that is in fact a lot of AoE damage.

Also thread-ception!

I would like to point out, that this is not a QQ thread about conditions. I have played conditions builds myself and had fun. After a while I realised that playing a power build with high burst is more my playstyle and seems more rewarding for me (not counting kills).

I am also one of the last pure shatter mesmers roaming in WvW (I guess there are some left, because every mesmer claims to be one of the last ) and I enjoy that very much. I have some problems with condition builds but I have the same problems with power builds. What I found is that if you meet a player with a higher skill cap than you, he’s gonna kill you. Conditions have counters and power builds have counters.

Now another thing mentionen in this thread, is the power creep and PvP vs. WvW balancing. I find that both those things is a very important thing to dicuss as they have a BIG impact on the WvW roaming (maybe not as much on zerg play)

Do you guys think that balancing in WvW should be the same as in PvP, talking revealed, rune sets, armor sets etc?

What do you guys think about the power creep?

Aeolus.3615:

Condition are OP but is not a new meta,and WvW its for teamplay, players should try to get more organized since conditions tend to lack power in group fights.

Even though I agree that in group fights condition builds lack power, due to large amounts of cleansing and 25 stack cap, that is not the focus of this post

Hi guys,

As the so-called condition meta has hit, many new and old condition builds have been hitting WvW roaming. Conditions seems to be the most viable now a days since raw damage had a 10 % reduction (I hear some thieves, disagree and say it’s more like 30 % but whatever). I am not to judges wheter many condition roamers are a good or a bad thing, nor is this thread made to discuss that.

What is the most nasty condition build you have encountered in your adventures of roaming in WvW.

I’ll start by introducing the “Perplexity Terrormancer”. Now that fear has become a interrupt a whole new condition have been introduced to necromancers with perplexity runes.

May the most nasty build win!

Forestgreen.7981:

Lol. So many angry EU players, like I said in my previous post GvG you got it but outside of that you’re the same as every other guild on NA. I never cared for GvG as its just a competition of who’s stacking more warriors/guardians/necros and weeding out the weak links, boring.

First of all this really seems like a silly argument. Numbers is a big factor in open field WvW and how do you know that one guild didn’t outnumber the other guild. I remember the days when we in FSV cried about people outnumbering us, but thats open field WvW.

Secondly, why is the EU guilds mentioned in this discussion better at stacking warriors/guardians/necros and weeding out the weak links than the NA guilds mentioned? If that is the way you win a GvG

/Archiae, former FSV and DiVa

Even though mesmer don’t have a lot of mobility and escape skills we have some good ones! Im usually not much into running when fighting 1v1 or 1v2, but at some point you get outmanned to the point where you have to run.

I run the old school shatter build (20/20/0/0/30) with traveler runes and even with traveler runes, you can’t outrun most classes. As a consequence you have to outsmart them. I use different techniques, one very succesful one is run in one direction, stealth and then run in the complete opposite direction followed by blink to give some distance. This often means that you have to run straight through you opponent, so have F4 ready to avoid his damage.

The trait far reaching manipulation is also a life saver, this makes blinking out of their distance so much easier. As some people mentionen you can blink to higher ground to make them run around to get you. One example of this the camp south of bay. This is a great hunting ground as you have many escape oppotunities and there is generally a high flow through of players. Here you can blink directly onto the bridge next to the sentry and thereby give yourself a break. Be carefull though as thives (Shadowstep), guardians (Judge’s Intervention) and other classes with teleport skills will be able to follow you.

Portal is also a very nice tool to mess with your opponents as well as an excellent escape tool. Lay your portal somewhere safe before you engage and you’ll always have an escape opportunity. Furthermore portal can make stomping downed players without getting interrupted a walk in the park. See osicat’s videos on youtube. He demonstrates nicely how you can use portal.

So for me it comes down to these 3 ways:
1. Stealth and run in an unexpected direction
2. Blink to higher ground
3. Portal away

Option 1 seems to get the trick done mostly. (to the people i fight: I never never do this of course ;-))

Even though these are excellent, there are some classes that you can’t escape unless you outsmart them, like thives, warriors etc.

Hope that helped

Hi,

So now that the new traits have been released I have been thinking about new builds for the WvW guild group mesmer. Before the glamour/confusion nerf, of course I ran the glamour build and it was GLORIOUS! Too glorious. So as many others I expected a nerf. And the nerf hammer came hard, hitting glamour mesmers so the never got back up again.

After the nerf I have been playing the glamour mesmer with bad results, so I moved on, as many others, to the boon stripping shatter mesmer. That is a very different playstyle for the mesmer and a very viable build with some support. However when it comes to boonstripping other classes have better ways of doing so (yeah i’m looking at you necros!).

So when the new grandmaster traits were released I was STOKED. Finally our prayers about the WvW guild group mesmer had been heard, or at least I thought so…

• Power Block – Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown of 10s*

• Triumphant Distortion – Gain 3s of distortion upon killing an enemy. No cooldown.*

• Bountiful Disillusionment – Gain boons each time a shatter skill is used. Mind wrack – 3s of relitation. Cry of frusturation – 3 stacks of might for 15s; Diversion – 5s of fury; Distortion – 8 seconds of regeneration*

• Disruptor’s Sustainment: Gain 1000 healing power for 5s upon interrupting a foe.*

• Maim the Disillusioned – Enemies hit by shatter skills are inflicted with torment.*

I can only see the Triumphant Distortion as a relevant trait for the WvW mesmer and even that don’t really give us a role in a guild group other than distortion. You see in order for the trait to be really powerfull you have to keep killing stuff, and what if you don’t? you run away? you die? Thats not really group play in my opinion.

So to conclude this rambling: maybe its time to remove the internal cooldown from Blinding Befudlement and make the glamour mesmer somewhat viable again? The current meta have loads of condition removal and confusion have been nerfed to 50 % damage.

Would the glamour mesmer with no cooldown on Blinding Befudlement be too OP? would three confusion stacks in stead on two make it OP? What’s your thoughts on the WvW mesmer with the new gransmaster traits?

Even though the trait definately opens up for some builds concerning the front line mesmer, there is one major problem with this, and this is coming for a organized guild group point of view.

In order for the build to be effective you have to keep killing stuff (one every 3 seconds). You can’t really rely on your group killing that fast when you are fighting other good organized guild groups (GvG like if you know what i’m saying :>). Also you are missing out on some important traits for the WvW mesmer if you go 30 into Dueling (Boon strip shatter mesmer or glamour mesmer).

However for normal zerging or fighting pug zergs, this would of course be very powerfull.

It is still too early to conclude anything before the new traits get in the game.

The WvW mesmer community have asked for a more group oriented skills to help the mesmer become viable again for damage or group support and if this trait was meant to be so, I would say it’s a miss.

DevonCarver.5370:

We’ve been discussing this a lot recently and we agree that something needs to change. When we have a change that we are ready to talk about we’ll make sure to make it known to everyone.

Thank you for your response Devon, and great to hear from you again! Looking forward to hearing about the changes. I would, myself, like to see the downed state integrated to lords instead of being able to banner them from death.

Reverence.6915:

I’m absolutely fine with the ability to res NPCs. It helps to stop PVDooring if you got a warrior on hand to run in and banner, followed by other warriors in case there was a map zerg waiting for him.

If you can’t stop a lord from being ressed, well, you don’t deserve to take the keep.

I’m sure that you are aware of people being able to take waypoints during attacks of for example garrison. When they take the waypoint they are invulnerable for 5 seconds. How do you propose to stop 5 warriors that are all invulnerable and prevent them from ressing the lord?

Paavotar.3971:

Chrhal.4983:

- Remove the fact that lord can be ressed by resurrection skills when he is dead

Fixed it for you. Getting a bit tired that warrior gets all the blame when there is multiple professions who can do this.

This was not a question of blaiming warriors it’s a question about the skill mechanic of resurrecting a dead NPC. So yes of course I mean other resurrection skills too.

Veeber.3192:

Tbh, I’d rather they fix the endless list of bugs and exploits, for example http://i.imgur.com/97In1Uc.jpg and people using Quaggan tonic to hide in Garri which was alot last night.

Also this was not a question of whether I would like this fixed now INSTEAD of all the other bugs and exploits in WvW, but to bring attention to this issue.

Apparently I was very unclear in my opening post

So here yesterday we had an amazing battle with Piken Square and Abbadons Mouth in Piken Garrison. The battle went on for 21 min (yes we times it) and I think most WvW oriented guild have had a similar experience sometime.

The thing that made the battle so long was well play by Piken and Abbadon, but unfortunately also a mechanic which I would like to be adressed = bannering of dead lords. Everyone I talk to, is against the priciple that you can banner res a dead lord and I can’t imagine that is was Anet’s intention to make this skill res dead NPC’s?

So this thread suggesting a dicussion of how we can adress the bannering of dead NPC’s.

Here are some of my suggestions:
- Remove the fact that lord can be ressed by warrior banner when he is dead
- Give the lords in Towers, Keeps etc. a downed state in which he can be bannered. We see down state more and more in PvE, so it should be easy to integrate.
- Give the lord a debuff so he can’t be bannered for 5 min after a banner res

What do you guys think of this?

Lastly I would like to say, that I don’t in any way blame Piken’s warriors for using this mechanic, we would have done the same!

So everybody knows this, but it doesn’t seems like anything is being done about this. I know ArenaNet have been saying that the rewards for playing WvW will be increased, and by reward I mean loot, so we can get our ascended gear without having to do mindless grind in PvE.

Just as an example. I spend the entire day in WvW. I did pretty good killed a lot of players, took a lot of objectives. At the end of the day I did a fractal, just to get my daily done. One fractal, which took 30 min, gave me way better loot that the 5 hours of WvW I played. How can that be?

With the new ascended armor, this is really something that have to be adressed. I have given up trying to gear my alts.

What do you guys think, and how can we come to a solution?

Have you considered that the staff was designed for something else than “just tagging mobs” and ArenaNet want to keep it that way?

Honestly it annoys me, whatever the class, that someone engages a 1v1 thinking that they can gank the target. When it then turns out that the target all of a sudden is better than you expected and you are about to loss, you run away, looking for a easier fight or coming back with more people to gank the target. Just sad really, but some people must think its fun.

Eremoo.2785:

Chrhal.4983:

What would you pick instead?

I’d pick confusing enchantments, which causes confusion to people who enter or leave glamours, it’s easier to tag people and will apply more confusion overall. I’d still try to keep the two traits in inspiration.

Again if you look at the build I posted, confusing enchantments is already picked, as well as the two other traits = more confusion

Eremoo.2785:

Chrhal.4983:

This is the build I run, when we run organized WvW.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAW7dlw1CrHVzqGa9IxJFMv5oecdrXdSKKNqB-jUCBoOCy0CwkDA0HQZSFRjtsuIasaGYKWER1eEFRrWIgFrBA-w

Veil is a must, Nullfield is a must for boon stripping and tagging, Feedback is godlike vs. ranged pew-pew’ers and for tagging and Time Warp is also a must. Also to those who don’t know. You can use Feedback without a target. It will spawn about 900 range straight ahead of you, it’s mostly easier than picking a target.

For survivability try not to get focused and have Chaos armor up most of the times with Phase Retreat in Glamour fields. If you find you have problems with surviving you can pick Blink or Decoy instead of Feedback.

The confusion when you blind only affects 5 targets if I’m not wrong, considering placing the glamours only blinds once, so in a big fight I think those 2 talents are a waste.

What would you pick instead?

This is the build I run, when we run organized WvW.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAW7dlw1CrHVzqGa9IxJFMv5oecdrXdSKKNqB-jUCBoOCy0CwkDA0HQZSFRjtsuIasaGYKWER1eEFRrWIgFrBA-w

Veil is a must, Nullfield is a must for boon stripping and tagging, Feedback is godlike vs. ranged pew-pew’ers and for tagging and Time Warp is also a must. Also to those who don’t know. You can use Feedback without a target. It will spawn about 900 range straight ahead of you, it’s mostly easier than picking a target.

For survivability try not to get focused and have Chaos armor up most of the times with Phase Retreat in Glamour fields. If you find you have problems with surviving you can pick Blink or Decoy instead of Feedback.

Had a lot of great late night duels versus AoA, MoA and PunK people in EB. It’s always nice to fight people from your old server

Cheers,

SixtyOne.6145:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Seriously FR?? U need 2 big guildgroups + pugs to kill DiVa?
Instead u fight with one guild vs us, no, one guild GROU and others push on us and AFK attacks us too.. Lame! Very lame, no sportmenship right here!
We were only with max 30 in WvW and u need +50-60..
No dignity at all, very disappointed in FR..
note: Other WvW guilds with some dignity let the guilds fight eachtoher and not CONSTANTLY interrupt it! Says enough about you since we downed half of your 50-60 men..

Grow some kiddos..
EDIT: Every kittening AFK or GROU or BL guy I encounter when I roam, will get some heavy teabag on them and emote spamming so you feel comfortable to your level.

Seriously ? I’m GROU (raid lead), and we wathing the fight during 5 min, then AFK was kill and we com in the fight, but AFK rez their raid and push with us :/. Sorry for that, but don’t say “U need 2 big guildgroups + pugs to kill DiVa?”.

Next, our raid is GROU + Bang and we are 18 in this raid.

You are a good Guild, a good lvl and we search you but after this fight on Hills we never found you (except on bay, but IC was here too, and we fight IC).

Diva, IC, TDA red map tomorow ?

Remember to bring AFK

Ithurien.3652:

We contribute class and style to what would otherwise be an unseemly brawl.

Enough said! I have no more questions

Alissah.9281:

Cant share boons compared to other professions? Cant heal?

Ha, I almost believed you there ror a second :P.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Love using Mesmer? Love playing support? Introducing the:

CHAOS MAESTRO

Dramatic, I know, but it got your attention didn’t it? It’s an appropriate title, both lore-wise and given that though it seems as if you’re just casting spells randomly, you’re actually picking and choosing whatever boon/condition you need for any situation.

Mesmer? Support?
I’ve had the opportunity to speak with several other more popular support classes and compare data. I can confidently say that Mesmer support is up there with Guardians, Elementalists, and Engineers in regards to boons, healing, and other utilities while being able to quickly adapt to many situations with unique skills like Portal, Feedback, and Signet of Inspiration.

(Warning: This build takes practice and communication. If you are new to the Mesmer class, I would not recommend it.)

Source
We make up to 5 people incredibly resillient, thats what we contribute. Our aoe heals are spammable (no cooldown), which other professions can only dream of!

You can also run a damage spec, and occasionally tag something, if you want.

See this is what i’m talking about. Great to see suggestions.

The boon storm is quite interesting. However as far as I understand it requires that you have some phantasms and illusions up to shatter and thereby get the boon reward. Correct? This can be quite difficult in bigger zerg fights or fights against blobs which we do a lot of in DiVa (who doesn’t love to wipe a blob right?) and a lot other WvW raiding guilds.

About the healing I think that a regroup, a water field and lots of blast finishers is more effective when running in organized guild groups. However for “unorganized” zerging (zerging with a commander) this would be quite effective. Unfortunately I think you would be the only one running a support build in these zergs, maybe except the commander. The heal dodge from guardian is also quite effective and when combined with the sigil of stamina it can be somewhat “spammable”. (Tagging stick and dodge).

However as you mention yourself, this is a great way to share boons to 5 people and who doesn’t like boons! I see this build truly shining in small scale roaming or smaller zerg fights when we talk WvW.

Also I don’t get what people have against the use of veil. Veil is one of the most powerful tools in organized groups. That 2 seconds of invisibility for the whole group is a BIG advantage. So why not use it?

Again, great post Alissah!

Ross Biddle.2367:

Yes. Lets all cry a river.

Its funny. Ive never run glamour bomb, never run veil bot, or been expected to be some sort of portal kitten. Yet my commander was contacted by the enemy BG forces we often face asking after me. They conveyed their feelings on how good I was.

I think you need to look deep inside yourself and stop blaming Anet for whatever it is youve got going on. Hell, just yesterday a random guy on my server pm’d me to say I made him want to roll mesmer. No more excuses. Get out there. Be awesome.

I think you misunderstood me. I am not crying about the nerfs, I am simply trying to start a discussion about the mesmer role in a zerg/organized guild group. I don’t have problems staying alive, tagging enemys or whatever, but more than two mesmers in an organized group is wasted, in my opinion. They might as well go for ele (water field), guardian (boon sharing), warrior (hammer stuns and damage), necro (boon corruption), etc.

No matter how much the mesmer is nerfed I still play it and enjoy it. However I think it is important to always strive to find a role and not be a “jack of all traits”, so to speak.

…either than veil and portal.

I have been playing mesmer since release and I still enjoy playing it. I mostly play WvW in organized groups and every time we have more than 2 mesmers, aka. 2 veils, it would be smarter for additional mesmers to grab another character. I have run the glamour confusion build almost since release but after the ravaging nerfs we had, damage is no longer a thing we contribute with.

The basic strategy for me in a zerg is:
1. put down veil
2. place your glamour fields (nullfield, feedback) on the enemy group and pray that nullfield strips stability.
3. Put up chaos armor as much as you can
4. Don’t die!

This means that the mesmer is worth gold in the first 5 seconds of a fight, but after that worth almost nothing. We don’t do enough damage, we don’t heal very well as healing phantasms die after 1 second and we don’t share boons very well compared to other classes.

I can understand that confusion damage was reduced to 50 %, but after the nerf of Blinding Befuddlement:http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Befuddlement so it now have an internal cooldown of 5 seconds the maximum amounts of confusion stacks I can get is 4 maybe 5 because of the Rune of Perplexity This corresponds to around 65+(0,075*1719)*5 = 709 damage for every tick, and this is the maximum amount.

What do other mesmers in organized groups run and are you happy with the current state of the mesmer? ie. builds for groups

glenndevis.8327:

Chrhal.4983:

I totaly agree that the glamour mesmer is the most effective in zerging and organized group fights, both for tagging enemy players, stripping boons and adding boons to other players (including yourself). Even though confusion was nerfed, it is still a very viable build that can put out a descent amount of damage, especially with the Runes of Perplexity. However with Veil, Nullfield, Feedback and Timewarp as a must, you sacrifice a lot of survivabilty.
If the commander doesn’t use Veil much I tend to switch it out with Blink.

I currently run this build: Glamour Mesmer

The key to survival here is having Chaos Armor up most of the time.

May I ask why you aren’t using Dire armor & weapons?
Just wondering since the build doesn’t seem to take advantage of crits (dueling tree)

Also I’m trying to get the gear to try out a glamour build now but was thinking if people who use Perplexity runes aren’t better off with Imbued Diversions (Illusion XII trait) for interrupts for more stacks of confusion. (allthough it being limited to 5 enemies.)

Surely Dire Armor would be great for this build, I just haven’t gotten a set yet

Imbued Diversions would also be an option however you would lose Dazzling Glamours, which is a key part of the build

I totaly agree that the glamour mesmer is the most effective in zerging and organized group fights, both for tagging enemy players, stripping boons and adding boons to other players (including yourself). Even though confusion was nerfed, it is still a very viable build that can put out a descent amount of damage, especially with the Runes of Perplexity. However with Veil, Nullfield, Feedback and Timewarp as a must, you sacrifice a lot of survivabilty.
If the commander doesn’t use Veil much I tend to switch it out with Blink.

I currently run this build: Glamour Mesmer

The key to survival here is having Chaos Armor up most of the time.