Guild Wars 2

bromi.7809:

I would love to love the FT, but 3.5k for channeling skill?
Auto from rifle in zerk does most time 1600+ every shot.
Wrench? over 2k.

it isnt as bad is it looks, it applies a burn and with the right build it will also stack 3 bleeds per channel on average. with the correct food you will have huge amounts of life steal too. the flamethrower is just hard to use because we have no gap closing skills and the flamethrower misses too often.

cottage.3274:

nice insults m8 like i said i`m done with you i said what i needed to say only thing left to add is that your wrong have a good day.

you have zero evidence, fail at math and logic that is why I am wrong rolleyes cool story bro. go to school, learn some math and logic, then talk please

Goloith.6349:

Not exactly sure what this is all about, to my knowledge 50% or 51% will give you another second of bleed once applied and that 100% or 101% will give you a 4 second bleed (I can confirm this). What I do know is that the tooltip on skills are indeed misleading when you increase duration. For example my burn says 3 3/4 seconds when indeed it ticks 4 times over 4 seconds.

the tooltips do not take every duration increase into account

cottage.3274:

stuff

two possibilities either I misunderstand you cause your writing is horrible or you just fail at logic. especially your comment that ROF/time of application does not matter shows that you dont get it and I can just blame the education system of your country. ROF does matter alot, if you would fire once a second you would only be able to get extra ticks if you manage to get enough condition duration to reach full seconds only.

bleed does not stack in duration and nothing is added to the next shot, bleed starts kicking in as soon you apply it. if it holds till the next full second you get damage, if it does not it wears of before, simple logic. duration is not rounded, it lasts exactly the amount of time you get from bonus duration.

I will explain it last time:
-you apply a bleed once every 0.8 seconds, that means 1st at 0s, 2nd at 0.8, 3rd at 1.6 and so on, diesregarding projectile flying time resulting in moving in and out.
-assuming you have +10% bonus condition duration your bleed lasts 2.2s

now you apply 1st bleed at 0s, 2nd at 0.8 and 3rd at 1.6 and so on…
0s => *1st bleed has full duration 2.2s left
0.8s => *1st bleed has 1.4s duration left *2nd bleed has 2.2s left
1s => enemy receives damage for 2 bleed stacks *1st has 1.2s left *2nd has 2s left
1.6s => *1st has 0.6s left *2nd has 1,4s left *3rd 2.2s left
2s => enemy receives damage for 3 bleed stacks *1st hast 0.2s left *2nd has 1s left *third has 1.8s left
2.2s => 1st bleeds wears out and only 2 are left
2.4s => you apply your 4th bleed thus you have 3 bleeds on the target again, *2nd has 0.6s left *3rd has 1.4s left
3s => enemy receives damage for 3 bleeds, note that 2nd bleed wears out now and if you didnt had +10% bonus duration if would wear out at 2.8s and enemy would receive damage for 2 bleeds only.

in short, if duration is long enough to get it through to the next tick at FULL seconds before wearing out it does damage and that is why the ROF is indeed relevant, otherwise you would not be able to get a bonus tick with 10% condition duration only.

cottage.3274:

the results are correct but the conclusion you draw is wrong. The game tracks each application of any effect separately in terms of duration and intensity.

if your going read and quote the wiki you also need to add “It is currently unknown if or how duration is rounded when stacked (or otherwise modified), neither if the remainder value is used as a prorata on the intensity for the last split second.”
and the all page is in a comparison to different sources that apply stacking effects not one source.

you do not apply the bleed once per second exactly, first the projectile has travel time and second it has 0.8 AS. at some point it will happen that one bleed stack will reach the moment where the additional duration will allow one extra tick of damage.

first of where do you see any talk on bleed get applied every second?
rate of fire have absolutely nothing do to with that nor do the travel time you can test this easy by going on a necro and use your scepter or your warrior mh sword.
extra ticks get added in a linear way from this partial % and can be calculated very easy so its not a stroke of luck that 2 bleeds overlap at some point.
so no the conclusion i draw is not wrong.

sorry but you whole post is a big logic fail. you have some results but you just dont understand them, there is simple math behind it that you just dont grasp.

if we disregard projectile flying time, your pistol would apply your first bleed at 0s, next one at 0.8s, 1.6s and so on. with 20% conditon duration the bleed would last 2.4seconds and this results in an additional tick of damage after 4 seconds of combat (1.6s + 2.4s => one more tick at 4s). with only 10% it would not result in an addtional tick because it would wear off right before the tick (1.6 + 2.2s => 3.8, the bleed application wears off shortly before the tick).

Cempa.5619:

Hi,

I just read an interesting post by cottage.3274 (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Any-decent-builds-WITHOUT-a-kit/first#post1466975) :

“go do some tests then come back and tall me i`m wrong,i did and alot,
this is what you get:

65%
explosive shot 2 bleed stacks=7 ticks
poison dart volley 5 darts=16 ticks
blowtorch 200 distance 3 stacks=9 ticks

vs 50%
explosive Shot 2 bleed stacks=6 ticks
poison dart volley 5 darts=15 ticks
blowtorch 200 distance 3 stacks=9 ticks

what you and some ppl do not seem to get is that its true that per one shot of explosive shot you will not get 1s or 2s extra if you don`t be at 50/100% exactly since its gets rounded down.
but if you get to 0.25/0.65/0.75+- ect it will be added to the next shot and the next shot and so on resulting in a extra tick at some point to take 65%(its really 62.5%) as example on the second shot you will get one more tick.
and as you can see only blowtorch don`t get the benefit of 10 ticks vs 9 ticks in 65%/50% you need 70% for the 10.
so no you don`t need to be only in 50/100% to benefit from condition duration.
and like i said our low cd and base low duration on skills that apply conditions works to our favor when considering condition duration." -cottage.3274

So I went to the Trait builder to see how I can hit 65% with my P/P HGH build and it looks like we have a winner (unless I’m sleepy and missed something):

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRR;2Z;0h0u5NQFx0;9;5T9T;253B1;017A;1aJ0;3dZH9dJG41Fn

Thoughts?

the results are correct but the conclusion you draw is wrong. The game tracks each application of any effect separately in terms of duration and intensity.

you do not apply the bleed once per second exactly, first the projectile has travel time and second it has 0.8 AS. at some point it will happen that one bleed stack will reach the moment where the additional duration will allow one extra tick of damage.

poison and burn stack in duration anyway, so nothing new here.

also the way to go for spvp is 2xlyssa, 2xkrait, 2xafflicted, burn duration sigil, napalm specialist trait and 10 points in explosives.

the gist with the med kit is, you use it when you wont be attaked, like out of sight or during elixir S duration. as I have already mentioned with self regulating defenses & automated medical response/inertial converter with elixir S as toolbelt skill allows you to heal back atleast twice without interruption if timed properly

turrets are pretty much useless. currently only the rifle turret is used due to the TOOLBELT skill to trigger static discharge but not for the actual turret. they deal low damage, die fast and take away important utility skills.

it would be different if each turret would be tied to a kit, what I mean is, that each kit would have an ability that places a turret for x amount of seconds (e.g. grenade kit places a rocket turret for x seconds attacking your target) with a lot shorter cooldown, that attacks your target when the turret was created. most issues would be solved with this change imho.

what do you think about this idea?

automated medical response recharge the med kit toolbelt skill too. a bunker build with healing power and self regulating defenses will always be able to heal 10k+ hp with med kit during the duration of elixir S.

backpack regenerator, elixir infused bombs, alot of toughness, power and healing power…

use smoke bomb, bomb heals, your pistol shield stun, wrench block, rune of vampirism and elixir S and make him rage for wasting his time

NevirSayDie.6235:

Vexor.3640:

Terrahero.9358:

25pts Alchemy: Minor trait.
Gives 1% more damage for every boon.

25pt Water: Minor trait (Elementalist)
Give 2% more damage for every boon.

Straigth up compareable traits, yet Elementalist’s is twice as strong.

That’s kind of subjective. I am not well versed in ele skills. I would ask can the ele apply as many different TYPES of boons as the engineer? Engineers can gain almost every boon in the game. Several of them can easily become perma. Does the ele have the same ability or access to as wide of a range?

Granted it would take us 6 boons to make up for 3 ele boons which is a pretty big disparity.

Question 2: Does 2 stacks of Might (or any boon) count as two boons or as one boon concerning that trait.

Food for thought.

In this example, unfortunately, the ele wins at every front. Might “stacks” only count as one boon, and the current 10/30/30 d/d ele build keeps at least as many different boons up as an elixir engineer—possibly more, although an elixir engi traited for protection and vigor and using healing turret would keep as many boons up.

Engineers have some advantages, but this is not one.

elementalists just need 10 points into arcana and get the following boons on attunement swaps:
fury (self only)
might (for self and team)
regeneration (for self and team)
swiftness (for self and team)
protection (for self and team)

addtionally armor of earth utility skill gives yourself stability.

in short: elementalists are boss when it comes to boons.

dont agree about the bomb suggestion, freeze bomb wouldnt be a good idea. a melee kit needs a way to prevent damage and the blind plus stealth blast finisher is perfect for that. also the bomb kit has movement control via glue bomb and you can use other abilities from rifle/pistol/other kits for movement control.

FT needs to be fixed. the burn on the last hit misses too often thus damage is wasted.

pistol should actually do an AOE bleed like stated in the tooltip.

I use a similar build:
http://tinyurl.com/cpnxkoj

my build has less health but more toughness and a nice amount of healing power to benefit from med kit and elixier infused bombs.

I dont have speedy kits and invigorating speed but I usually dont have have any movement & stamina issues with Sigil of Energy, “Drop Stimulant”, “Hidden Flask” Trait & “Power Shoes” Trait.

Rezzet.3614:

how much health do you steal with the runes i still think scholar would be most beneficial or something like that.

the life steal heals for 975 health

1. good combo is static shield => switch to wrench => magnet => pry bar => switch back to pistol => throw shield

timing must be good but it is great when it goes off properly

2. a nice variation of the build is to focus on condition damage. by using the superior rune of the guardian, every block with the gear shield or static shield would apply a burn on your target. you can pull target to you, pry bar his face, apply conditions via bombs and then finish the target off with blocking and the pistol. sylvari has vine shield toolbelt skill for another 2 second block.

one engineer jumped at me with this build, but I used magnetic shield and he killed himself before he realized what happened

Goloith.6349:

Bad idea man. You are losing so much condition damage.

You cannot crank out anymore DPS out of a condition build than with this equipment.

You need to be rolling:
6 Vatlaaw’s Peices for the Condition/Prec/Toughness(this is much better in WvW & Fractals than vitality)
2x Lyssa
2x Mad King
2x Afflicated
-Use Napalm Spec for the 20% duration on burn

Stat allocation is 30/30/00/10/00 (once they fix Giver’s Weapons – 20/20/00/30/00)

-Add in Sigil of Earth & Sigil of Corruption
-Add Maintance oil and Rare Veggie Pizza
=
105% Bleed Duration (100% is max with rounding)
110% Burn Duration (100% is max with Rounding)
90% for Confusion & Poison (only 50% will be applied) [will be 100% once they fix Giver’s Weapons]

You are looking at double bleed time, double burn time, and 50% increase in time for confusion/poison.

Important
The skill tool-tips will lie to you. What you need to do is take auto-target off and test 1 stack of bleed on a target to see the duration and the amount of damage per second. Repeat this for burn duration, but remember if your chance to burn on crit procs, you’ll see a 16 second burn instead of the 12 second burn. lol

Why is this better than Rampagers? Because Rampagers doesn’t have optimal condition damage and that’s the thing you want to prolong.

So
100% Duration on more condition
50% Damage increase from base Crit damage on less power

vs.

50% Duration on less condition
50% Damage increase on more power from base Crit Damage

Enjoy :-)

if giver’s are fixed I would go for:
20 in explo, 30 firearms, rest up to you
20 points explo +20%
2x lyssa +10%
4xnightmare +10%
2 givers weapons +20%
food +40%

total: +100% to everything

imho dont focus on one condition. you can easily get +50% on both, burn and bleed (thus get 3s duration):
2x krait runes
2x afflicted runes
2x lyssa runes
sigil of smoldering
10 points into explosives
20 points into firearms to get napalm specialist trait

example build:
http://tinyurl.com/bxpn6dt
great crit chance with fury buff thus you can proc burn and bleed from crits very often.

let me summarize this: you like to play a class with subpar and bugged abilities

great, so how many kits do you use in pvp or dynamic events? there is no point in using more then one (or better said, you are force to not use more then one) otherwise you get owned by conditions or instant kill combos relying on CC to be pulled of. by taking one kit you actually dont get more flexibility as regular classes able to carry two weapon sets but engineer is meant to get flexibility from kits… looks like the devs failed here. and then please tell me how it works out when you get hit by condition damage able to kill you in 3s in dynamic events without condition removal.

now the BUGS. some bugs exist since the beginning of the beta, some were even introduced in the beta, none of them get fixed despite being well known by the developers. let me tell you, not being able to use weapon stats and sigils with kits is a big disadvantage…

he was talking about thiefs not about pw thiefs thus I picked an answer that suits him fine

elithrar.7143:

I still see plenty of other thieves tearing it up with Pistol Whip + Haste. Can we stop with the crying now?

It’s still very strong.

FWIW, Thieves will always be a target of complaints due to things inherent to their archetype: stealth, movement, burst. It seems that some players just don’t want to learn how to counter us.

its always the same, denying welps always defend their stuff cause they dont want to learn how to play

roll a guardian, spec him into tank and get 2k toughness. I come with my thief and show you how quickly your tank dies when you get hit by 8k crits =D PROTIP: it does take me a second to kill you.

Stiv.1820:

I’ve been hit for 13K instantly by:
Theif (backstab)
War (Full Adrenalin gunshot or Charge/KD+quickness+100blades)
Mesmer (BF+Clone Pops)
Eng (Idk wtf this was)

I’m sure the other classes can sepc in a way to do it too. Theifs/War(gun) are 1 hit, Eng and Mesmer are mutli things all at once but it still adds up to 13K+ in <1 second.

ofcourse other classes can do huge burst too, the difference is, all the other classes need time to setup the damage. thief can do 13k backstab crits in much shorter timeframe, just by precasting some abilities, use steal and then backstab.

none of the targets killed in this video were good players. most of them were not even fighting back or fighting someone else -.-

now please post the video where the thief jumped at you with c&d, steal & backstab for all your hp in 0.2 seconds

since when is “you use your abilities” an argument? you would use all your tricks you have to offer to win the fight anyway. the advantage of this build is, you remove one target INSTANTLY from a fight and your team gets ahead.

I am pretty sure backstab damage will receive a nerf. my thief hits glass cannons for up to 13k crits, targets with 2k toughness up to 8k. this is not WvW against undergeared guys, I talk about spvp, I talk about tournaments where everyone has the same gear where I can instagib someone and take him out of the fight which is a huge advantage.

I love the people that try to be smart and say “then go play a thief”.

I play a thief in spvp and constantly kill tank guardians under a second. I hit targets with 2k toughness for 8k crits and glass cannons for up to 13k. they die in a second, before the can even react. in tourneys that means I can remove 1 target from the fight which is a huge advantage. my thief is far from useless after I blow my burst, I just cant instagib anyone anymore in the meantime but that does not make it useless.

you cant deny this hard fact, it is pointless and makes you look bad. I am pretty sure that more thief nerfs will come, get used to it.

he had frenzy on him for sure but it would still be a 16k crit without it… this does not happen very often though.

anyway, the denying here is epic. my thief hits up to 13k backstab on normal glass cannons and 8k on targets with 2k toughness. I can kill tank guardians in a second, they are dead before they can react. of course this is connected to alot of high cooldowns but it does not matter, in a tourney removing 1 player instantly from battle is huge advantage. my thief is not useless afterwards, he just does not instagib anyone anymore when the abilities are on cooldown.

you cant argue against this hard fact, trying is simple pointless and makes you look pathetic and bad.

retaliation does not mitigate damage, it throws damage back at the source any time you get hit. it also scales with power slightly.

my weakness? the nerf threads after I kill tank guardians in under a second =D

I am amused about the fact that people think that the engineer is versatile… actually he is not that versatile. taking kits (kits that do not use weapons stats or sigilis) means you give up stun breakers or condition removal.

he never said he got killed by that, only that he received alot of dmg in split of a second.
anyway, with a proper build the backstab alone would deal atleast a 8k crit, so this thief was actually bad. my thief build backstab hits for 10-13k in spvp on targets with no toughness gear.

my first sentence was just a annoyig joke so dont take it too seriously the rest still holds true. with the proper build in a tournament, removing one enemy player in a split of a second, no matter how tanky the character is build, is a huge advantage. the thief is not useless after he uses his high cd skills, just not instagib effective anymore. there is no argument you can bring against this hard fact, the attempt is pointless and makes you look bad.

I told you that the nerf will come… and I am sure this is not the end of all thief nerfs

a bad player complains about other bad players, makes a pointless video and calls it an argument =D the irony…

cooldowns are not an issue. in a serious tourny, removing one player instantly via 8-13k backstabs (depending on target thoughness) is a huge advantage. it is not like the thief deals no damage between his cooldowns too, he just cannot remove one player instantly in the meantime.

since no one knows we can only guess but from my experience it looks like it is a flat reduction with hard cap and the hard cap is the gear available… I see it everytime in spvp, tank builds deal almost no damage to me when I carry soldier amulet and jewel but when thief pops up, still 8k crits =D

so here again another video showing off the imbalance of the thief in spvp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

hitting low thoughness targets 10-13k
high toughness targets 7-8k.
even the tanky targets die in a blink of an eye… someone might “argument” about cooldowns and so on but please save your time and dont make yourself look stupid. in a serious tournament removing someone from a fight instantly is a big advantage and pretty much imbalanced.

Auron.2657:

Dee Jay.2460:

You are wrong Auron and you are the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Add WvW into the mix, with Orbs, culling bugs etc. and players can easily get killed in 1-2 seconds.

I play that spec myself, and it really does work that well. A 45 second CD and 14k HP don’t justify practically one-shotting people.

The only proof that is, is a glass cannon Thief backstabbing glass cannon people. Or am I missing something?

wrong, the glass cannons wher hit for 10k, was hitting high toughness targets between 7-8k crits. maybe open your eyes and stop denying.

anyway it does not matter. the nerf will come 100%. anet is already collecting the data or do you thing the merged thread pinned at the top was done by a staff member just for fun?

so many denying and uninformed welps… thoughness is less effective against big hits then it is against many small ones. additionally some of the thief stuff scale and stack up too much. a bit of toughness can make a tank builds damage useless but thiefs burst will still hit for 8k criticals.

fact is in spvp a thief can kill someone under a second, there is no counter to something that instagibs you. in spvp everyone has equal gear and everyone should have equal chance but more and more thiefs with proper builds appear that are able to hit for 8k crit damage on targets with 1,8k toughness.

really its time to adapt to something else because it is 100% sure that a nerf will come, a big nerf bat will strike you all so hard that you will cry to mommy or do you think that the merged anti thief thread that was pinned to the top by a guild wars 2 staff member in the spvp section was made just for fun? they are already collecting the data to properly nerf the thief.

turrets just need lower CD and to scale with stats. taking turrets means no stunbreaker/condition removal utility so it would be just fine if turret would scale. they are after all immobile and easy to avoid.

Accelerant packed turrets is usesless. the radius is too short and the points are wasted. if you want a turret build for spvp then you need Deployable Turrets and as much durability as possible and constant damage
in short:
soldiers jewel & amulet
runes of melandru
30 points in invetions for bonus thoughness and improved turrets
30 points in alchemy for bonus vitality, auto elixir s, protection injection
10 inventions for deployable turrets

place the turrets in spots where they dont get attacked and its fine. just defend the point and you are good, you dont want to move around much anyway because the turrets have high cooldown.

too much actually. toughness is less effective against big hits than it is against many small hits.

all wrong the most efficient condition (atleast regarding damage) setup is:
10 points in explosives tree
napalm specialist master trait from firearms tree
2x krait
2x afflicted
2x lyssa
superior sigil of smoldering
superior sigil of earth

=> +50% burn and +50% bleed duration and more bleed stacking

Arvin.3124:

Erm..I think kits rock late game. I use bomb kit, healing kit and elixir gun.
Its all about the versatility kits provide.

And as was said, they scale with everything except weapons.

so you have no stun breaker or condition removal? tell me how it works out when you engage your first time in pvp or in dynamic events.

thanks for posting the videos. nice evidence of thiefs needing a big nerf bat treatmeant
12k backstab is really too much

yes this is all true. switching around kits means I lose alot of bleed stacks on my target and incendiary powder will not trigger. I have enough of CC with a shield equipped. in regular pve you might get away without a condition removal or stunbreaker but in dynamic events or pvp you really cant. why should I use kits when elixirs give me plenty of utility and dont kitten my bleed application?

even if you use rifle it is questionable. once you get good gear your rifle will outdamage kits (traited grenades would be the only exception) and give you more abilities that you most likely wont need.

at first look this looks great but if you watch carefully then you see a high lvl guy with good gear stomps some upscaled dudes with no gear… really pro!

it is pretty simple:
-static discharge bounces 3 times
-static discharge is triggered at the end of each toolbelt skill
-targeted tool belt skill => the lightning bolt will hit the target.
-area of effect skill shots (like toss elixir) => it will fly towards the center of the AoE and hit anything in a straight-line path.
-non targeted skills (like bandage self) => it will fly towards the direction you’re facing and hit anything in a straight-line path but has very short range because the camera will most likely be angled to have better overview thus will hit the ground

kits are mostly pointless. in pistol condition builds you need to constantly autoattack otherwise you lose dps, switching to a kit in a pistol build means you lose 2 seconds of autoattacking/bleeding dps (cause switching to a kit applies a 1 second cooldown on all weapo n skills, then using a the skill and then switch back to pistol). you also need atleast a stun breaker and condition removal, thus you are down to 1 utility slot left which means that you can only a single kit if you really want a proper build and even then it is questionable if it wouldnt be better to use any other utility skill to complement a certain playstyle.

Defektive.7283:

But he sure did spam his abilities didn’t he?

Backstab crits on me for an average of 4.5k (sPvP gear). That would have been the same opener.

backstab builds crit up to 8 on targets with 1,8 toughness. 4,5k is not a backstab build. there is a big difference in having quickness up on a proper build and having no quickness on a bad build. problem is thoughness is less effective on big hits as it is on many small ones. a backstab thief with quickness can open with a big crit and in a split second follow with anything else. the guy in the video you posted did not even came from stealth, he just charged you headlong and landed a few autoattacks.

using bad gameplay as example is not a valid argument.

Defektive.7283:

My response:
http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/b/333898008

troll.
he does not use a backstab build, he did not backstabbed you at all and he did not even used quickness in the video you posted.

you dont get it obviously. quickness is not a problem on the warrior, engineer or mesmer. you see them coming and their big hit abilities can be dodged.

it is broken in spvp on thiefs, thiefs that can stealth outside of your vision, walk up to you and blink into range. my current build has almost 1,9k thoughness and over 20k hp. I am defending a point. thiefs attacks me out of stealth opens with backstabs and follows with spamming any other ability he has. I am dead before I can even react or press a button because in the first splint second he puts out over 20k worth of dps due to the backstab and quickness which allows him to quickly follow up with alot of abilities. if the thief player is not kitten then he will win any 1vs1 in a second when his quickness is up and the cooldown is not exactly huge. to make it even worse, coming out of stealth starts with the stealth reappear animation and it just takes too long which makes the thief not visible for a splint of a second. the thief should appear instantly and sometimes the player model does not load at all because of the bug that exists since the beginning of the beta…

I rolled a thief 2 weeks ago and it is amazing how easy it is to put out such huge damage numbers. sorry but if you are unable to kill the target with quickness fast enough before they can react then it is not the l2p issues of others but yours. quickness on the thief is broken and I abuse it everyday now.

thiefs that kill 1,8k thoughness 20+k hp targets under a second is the reason why quickness should be removed.