Guild Wars 2

One of the light armor skins look like you’re wearing a dirty scratchy linen bag over your chest.

I kitten you not. They chose the absolute kittentiest armors to give WvW.

Orion.1678:

The one issue that I wish would get addressed are the titles; not the ones they’re about to introduce but the existing ones. ie: Ultimate Dominator, Interceptor, etc. because the requirements are FAR too extreme.

Yes, these do suck. However, out of everything wrong with WvW (and there’s a lot) – this is what you would want addressed first?

Vena.8436:

Xsorus.2507:

Things like Collision Detection will also not exist, because you technically don’t have Tanks, I mean…The reason it worked in warhammer online for example is because you had Classes like the Blackguard which had a lot of utility but had little damage, In exchange though they could face tank a zerg of players with ease.

Collision detection was removed because no one wants to play “Ping Wars 2” when the population is world wide but servers cannot be. So instead they added skills to take its place but you don’t seem to be aware of their existence.

Xsorus.2507:

hell it’ll never been Warhammer Online… it won’t be able to compete with games with 2 Factions (WAR) in terms of actual good combat/gameplay.

No one wants to be WAR… and no one can compete with WAR on the fact that its a dead game that died faster than a mayfly in spring.

Eclipses.7152:

However I have to say that from what it appears to be, TESO is taking their WvW like experience much more seriously than Arenanet.

As far back as the first glimpses into WvW, it was never considered as even remotely what it ended up becoming (by the devs and even by a lot of players). They didn’t consider it anything more than an extension of PvE and designed it as such, PvPers had sPvP. Problem being… the core mechanics ended up being good, really good, and it sucked in a whole lot of people and it became a big thing. Unfortunately, development doesn’t work nearly as quickly nor does internal management.

Eclipses.7152:

We can at least hope that over there players won’t have to wait 6 months to see updates and positive content and progression system additions.

What you’re going to get is: six classes, a map designed around geography of a past game rather than designed to actually be balanced, a long vertical progression system post leveling, and the same exact game structure as here with “world” replaced by “alliance” all fighting in their “campaigns” rather than “tiers”… and some bigger maps, sort of kind of.

…In maybe six months.

Could be the greatest game ever… or it could be a stinking pile of manure. But, at the end of the day, at least WvW ended up a stable game mode, with functional/good mechanics, and an ever evolving meta. This is why I hate comparison with non-existent entities, too much “grass is greener” mentality.

Ever evolving meta? There is only one meta here and its name is Zerg.

I do agree with the majority of your points however I disagree with some as well.

I’m pretty sure that in TESO we’ll have mid-large size grouping mechanics that don’t necessitate the purchase of an outlandishly priced, poorly designed money sink like Commander.

JaironKalach.4938:

Eclipses.7152:

Of those 14 guilds, I can name only ONE that still plays this game with any regularity – and they are going to drop it once TESO releases.

And quite possibly be dissatisfied for the same or different reasons once that game is released and they are 6 months into it. The very fact that they are pinning their expectations on yet another game that they have never played. I’ve particularly enjoyed the reviews that are in awe of the 200 man fights. I don’t particularly want to get into the specs of that game. It’s off topic. I just want to point out that there are people who will constantly hope for the next big thing that will meet their expectations, go to it, and be disappointed 6 months in. The ebb and flow of populations based on those folks is expected. So, please, please, please stop posting the “Well we’re all going to ditch for TESO and GW2 will die” arguments.

This is true.

However I have to say that from what it appears to be, TESO is taking their WvW like experience much more seriously than Arenanet.

We can at least hope that over there players won’t have to wait 6 months to see updates and positive content and progression system additions.

Vayne.8563:

Eclipses.7152:

I’m expecting this update to suck.

Thinking of this update has me remembering that “Lowered Expectations” skit MadTV used to do.

Then you probably won’t be disappointed. lol

On the contrary, I expect to be. This game, post launch, has rarely (never) surpassed my expectations when it comes to its PvP components.

Vayne.8563:

The chest nerf is fine. It was too much to begin with. People with lots of alts are mad because they can’t make easy bank anymore. So?

I have a lot of alts too, 6 level 80s and I think this change is a good one for the game. In fact, they should have started it sooner than the patch.

People will do the least they can to get the most loot. That’s just how people are. So the company has to mitigate that by “nerfing” the loot. With so many world events, there’s still plenty of guaranteed loot to get.

Anyone who thinks it isn’t enough is just being greedy.

You’re completely missing his point. He isn’t speaking against the loot change, he’s talking about more and more reward mechanics, i.e. the upcoming WvW progression system, to be character bound and thus discouraging to those with alts.

I’m expecting this update to suck.

Thinking of this update has me remembering that “Lowered Expectations” skit MadTV used to do.

Bunkers are necessary in PvP because of the lack of healers. Serious argument here.

Healers in MMOs increase the TTK dramatically, often allowing you to discern what an opponent is doing, their kit, class strats and ways in which to counter them. However with no healers, this game’s TTK is very very low – unless you go bunker. Having a player on your team that’s focused on support isn’t nearly as powerful as just going Bunker yourself and having access to almost the full array of boons.

Secondly, the way these sPvP maps are designed, bunkers are more than viable – they’re necessary. Capture and hold point style maps necessitate the need for a bunker.

Teamkiller.4315:

The ele’s going to get substantially higher kills. Why? Cause vastly more powerful AOE that’s why. What about say, a rifle warrior? Or actually, any warrior that is not using hammer?

You’re being massively obtuse or disingenuous. You’re comparing the Ele’s single greatest AoE weapon to the warrior’s single greatest single target DPS weapon. You’re intentionally omitting, for the sake of your pathetic argument, that warriors do not have a LongBow weapon, which is their AoE option. EVERY class has an AoE Option, even if that option isn’t as effective as staff ele.

Teamkiller.4315:

If only you had any idea of just how many people have stopped playing WvW or GW2 altogether because of the way WvW has been implemented.

You are massively exaggerating how many people have stopped playing WvW or GW2 altogether JUST because of WvW.

I also think that this game type’s prevalence for zerging is absurd, almost as absurd as the people who want to defend it by constantly reverberating the tired argument of “It’s called WORLD vs WORLD nubs, hence ZERGS.”

I don’t understand, what exactly is invalid about this argument? There are large scale battles, there are small scale battles. I participate in both. Everyone I know has at some point participated in both. I don’t understand why you complain about zergs, apart from the fact that maybe you’re tired of losing a 30v1. But that’s ok, because you’re supposed to lose against those kind of odds. It’s like going into a boxing match and expecting to beat 30 bodybuilders at once. Not gonna happen.

Think about REAL LIFE World vs World. Zergs (armies) are a tool that can be used, but they aren’t the ONLY tool. More conflicts have been fought and resolved with much, much smaller tactical teams and they should have play here too.

They are the best and most prevalent tool. Historically, things have been acquired and won by massive armies, not by small 5 man teams that killed 300 guys. Such things are extremely rare and hence why the subject or stories and legends.

Tell me, do you think the United States Special Forces should be able to take the United States marines corps in a fight? It’s about 5000 vs 200,000. Sure, there’s no question as to which soldier is better in combat, but seriously, 5000 vs 200,000, they’re a reason they are SPEC OPS and not front line troops, it’s because with their pitiful numbers they would be destroyed in open field combat, hence their forte is special operations.

Which is what I think small scale should be relegated to. Typically small scale involves sniping supply lines and supply camps, as well as ninja’ing certain structures while YOUR army has the ENEMY army occupied elsewhere.

I’m hardly exaggerating. I started a guild of 60 players to play WvW when this game started. Now, only about 4 ever play. I started in an alliance of about 14 different guilds when this game started, all focused on WvW. Of those 14 guilds, I can name only ONE that still plays this game with any regularity – and they are going to drop it once TESO releases.

You are being so intentionally obtuse just to prove your internet point that it’s sad. Yes WARS have been fought by armies, but inside those wars, do you think every battle was fought by the WHOLE army? Do you think they zerged every objective with as many people as they possibly could because it was the best way? Or do you think, that throughout the course of human history, small groups have won as many if not more engagements than massive armies have? I am not arguing for the extinction of the zerg. They have their place, same as any other tool. But it shouldn’t be the ONLY tool.

Think on it.

Teamkiller.4315:

At their peak, I have enjoyed Shadowbane, DaoC, and Warhammer more than GW2 but given the curent populations, those aren’t really options.

I’d like to point out that because of WuvWuv’s substantially higher population, they are most likely satisfying the majority of those who want open world pvp and those who hate zerging are an outspoken minority.

If only you had any idea of just how many people have stopped playing WvW or GW2 altogether because of the way WvW has been implemented.

I also think that this game type’s prevalence for zerging is absurd, almost as absurd as the people who want to defend it by constantly reverberating the tired argument of “It’s called WORLD vs WORLD nubs, hence ZERGS.”

Think about REAL LIFE World vs World. Zergs (armies) are a tool that can be used, but they aren’t the ONLY tool. More conflicts have been fought and resolved with much, much smaller tactical teams and they should have play here too.

Ahmrill.7512:

All the stuff you guys suggested was pretty much what Warhammer’s “Warband” system had. Hopefully they make grouping properly a priority soon.

Don’t count on it.

Fuzzion.2504:

Lower your expectations a little bit.

This. I expect the progression system to be mildly entertaining for a few weeks then the increased interest in WvW to die out dramatically until the next WvW focused update another 6 months from now.

I predict failure and disappointment.

Why is this game so kittening PvE focused?

THAT is my question.

This game is for massively PvE oriented players who happen to like a bit of non-impactful, non-consequential, marginally competitive, non-rewarding, depth lacking, scope lacking, purpose lacking PvP.

Now compare that to GW1. This game is NOT the spiritual successor of GW1 at all.

I disagree. I think downed is fine in WvW, but utterly game breaking for sPvP.

That being said, there are changes to downed in WvW that I am open to hearing.

As I’ve said before, but willing to say again because it shows just how stark the difference between the reward systems of WvW and PvE are: just look at the high level armor available from the two game types.

From WvW:

1. Soldier’s

From PvE:

1. Soldier’s,
2. Rampager’s,
3. Cleric’s,
4. Beserker’s,
5. Knight’s,
6. Cavalier’s,
7. Valkyrie,
8. Giver’s,
9. Shaman’s,
10. Carrion,
11. Winter,
12. Magi’s,
13. Apothecary’s,
14. Explorer’s,
15. Traveler’s,
16. Wayfarer’s
17. Celestial

Many times they have said how WvW is supposed to be as rewarding as PvE. It’s a total lie.

Sentries. What are they good for? Telling you where the zerg is heading?

Turkman.1089:

I think the only reason why the whole WvW-Community hasn’t abandoned the game altogether yet, is the lack of a real alternative. But I really hope that the promised update in March will be something huge and bring real improvements.

This is pretty much it.

The real reason that GW2’s WvW, imho, hasn’t imploded yet – is that there hasn’t really been any Triple A MMO releases since it’s began to compete with. There was MOP to be sure, but it flopped and it was for a very old game with an aging fanbase.

Once TESO or Archage or any new thing that comes out that can offer Open World PvP like it was meant to be, then this game is done.

Love how the same players throwing out the stupid argument of ’it’s WORLD vs WORLD – hence massive groups of people’ are the same fools arguing FOR the aoe cap.

If you’re going to argue for realism in in a game, let’s start with the fact that 30 some odd meteors falling from the sky onto a huddled mass of 50 people isn’t going to only hit 5 of them.

Straegen.2938:

Hopefully this will quiet down the “Anet doesn’t listen or care” crowd… well I can always hope.

Because they’re removing content FROM WvW?

Seriously?

Somoe.3621:

Lord Kreegan.8123:

Wayyyy lonnngggg past the pat-on-the-back phase…

Most of these stupid awards are just part of the marketing/advertisement game (compare the number of advertisements on game sites by a game company to the amount of awards their games get from that site; there’s a very obvious correlation).

I have noticed some very crappy games getting the various game of the year awards; don’t be naive about it.

Nice conspiracy theory, don’t forget to wear your tin foil hat.

What’s conspiratorial about it? Do you know how many awards SWTOR won BEFORE IT EVEN CAME OUT?

Look how kittenty that game turned out.

jwburks.9735:

Love how this has been derailed into an anti-thief thread. Don’t we already have a crusade against stealth in the official Thief forum?

It hasn’t derailed at all. In fact, that line of conversation ended and YOU are the one who brought it back up.

But I digress. Just warning you guys, don’t get your hopes up for March.

Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894:

So there’s no point using stealth then?

Are you seriously arguing that there is no point to using stealth because someone, somewhere might have an ability to see you through stealth for FIVE seconds? There are such abilities in other MMO’s and it does not invalidate stealth there – it will not do it here either.

At the least it will stop thieves from being OP in WvW, at most it will make thieves rethink their gameplay a small amount. No difference from the impending AoE nerfs and the stupid gameplay changes they’ll bring for Eles. necros, engineers and the like.

My post was just an example anyway, Anet clearly has no intention of putting something fun and tactical in the game, preferring “mildly interesting”.

Nope, waiting for the March update.

If that sucks – and it likely will – I will probably uninstall the game from my computer so as not to be tempted to give it a 2nd chance. This update will also seriously influence whether or not I purchase the expansion likely coming sometime later this year.

Ariel Cor Leonis Inferi.2894:

Active ability that see through stealth? That is bad for thieves i mean really bad given their low armor and health pool.

Hopw that it wont be added in the “March” patch

Low armor? They have medium armor, the highest endurance regen rate and more than one escape tool that does not involve stealth. There are classes with lower armor and just as low hp pool.

A WvW only ability that forced you to sacrifice a utility slot in order to see stealth for 5 seconds sounds like a balanced trade in my book.

I’ll reserve true judgement until I see them but as it stands now the March update and their WvW skills are looking a huge disappointment.

All I know is from what I’ve seen so far, the WvW community will be mostly disappointed by these updates. I’m not sure about you guys, but I figured the March patch would be introducing new active abilities, ones that might be suited and tailored to WvW to bring in some interesting game play:

- An AoE that hit a non-negligible amount of people
- An active ability that gave you the ability to see through stealth for 5-10 seconds

things like that. Instead the abilities we’re going to be seeing are passive ones, like ‘carry more supply’. IDK, that just doesn’t seem interesting enough to draw people to WvW. Plus, we already have such a thing in the guild upgrade…

It just seems lame. Furthermore, their resistance to changing commander is absolute outrageous. Read the interview here:

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/210/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson.aspx

There are about 3 good questions for changing Commander into something not totally ridiculous and he gives terrible answers to each one.

- They won’t make it Account bound because they want players to know the name of the Commander. Which is admirable, but it still keeps the Commander to only one of their characters. If they made it account bound, more than likely it’d be the GUILD that got recognition for having a few great commanders on, even if they were all the same person, so it really doesn’t change anything.

- It would be “hard” for them to take it away. No it wouldn’t be, so long as those who paid for it were returned their gold. At the very least open up new avenues to attain Commander (badges, kill, objective scores),

but nope:

- “It’s hard to gauge, because even that would not necessarily be the sign of a great player.”

So 100g, something that is totally irrelevant to being a great player in WvW is?

They’re so kitten backwards they aren’t even making sense.

I’d be interested in dueling, but I think the TTK is a bit low for players who are looking to get better at their class and at the game mechanics to really learn what happened and how to not have it happen again before they die.

I read some of the thread, will post there.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

1. Debatable. To be blunt: the people on your server should be able to tell which commanders know what they’re doing, and which don’t, and start ignoring the ones who don’t. If they’re incapable of that (which it sounds like they are from the rest of your posts), you have a bigger problem than bad commanders. Also, switching to kill count wouldn’t necessarily make them any better at tactical decision making, and badges could just mean they’re good at the jumping puzzles. At least with how it is now you know they care enough about wvw to drop 100g of their own money on a tag. Granted, caring enough to drop 100g and being good at tactical decision making don’t go hand in hand, but I really don’t know how they can ensure a person “deserves” a commander tag.

This part of my post is misunderstood. It’s not simply about Bad Commander/Good Commander. It’s about how poorly the system was designed. Kill count, badges and the like wouldn’t have been a full proof way no, but it would have ensured that the person was at least experienced in the ways of WvW.

It could have been a mixture of all 3:

- Badges
- Kills
- Tower / Supply Camp / Keep captures

And that would have wholly ensured that whoever had the title was experienced in WvW to a basic degree at the very least.

Moreover, the point I’m really trying to make with that complaint is the fact that the current Commander mechanic is utterly atrocious for group management.

You can’t make it private.
You can’t set lts.
It discourages them from creating a guild squad system.

The Commander feature totally disincentivizes a mid-large size grouping mechanic in the game that’s workable for guild and parties larger than 5. It’s atrocious.

JStyle.1423:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

It really hasn’t. OP obviously hasn’t played with a small tight group of organized players specifically designed for WvW tactics. You can take objectives, defend objectives, fight zergs with a small 5 man group. You need coordination and strategy. There will always be zergs in any large scale PvP game. You can’t complain about it, you outsmart them. AOE limit has a small part, they should uncap the AOE limit and scale damage down based on how many people are getting hit. But saying that WvW is ZvZ is just griefing because you are getting killed by zergs and don’t know how to play smart.

Eclipses.7152:

The biggest disappointment I feel from WvW is that not only has it cost me the positive impression I had of Arenanet but that it’s cost me my guild.

I put a lot on the line banking that this game type would be sustainable, fun and interesting for the long haul. More than just my money – I put my time into forming a guild, recruiting, personally interviewing every single one of my members to make sure they were the type we were looking for, created a website, images, youtube, twitter, twitch, facebook – all of that.

I guess I took that gamble when creating a guild but kitten if I didn’t think that this game was the one and that Arenanet actually had commitment to their product. This game type’s failure has cost me some friends and that is the biggest disappointment.

This post really makes you (the OP) look like you’re griefing over the fact that your guild didn’t work out. Sorry but it’s not Arena.net’s problem your guild fell apart or your friends got mad at you and left.

I haven’t played in a small tight knit group of organized players? Maybe you missed the part where I said I was a guild leader of a mid size WvW guild? I know how to lead large, midsize and small tactical parties. That doesn’t change the fact that zergs can do whatever they can do and better.

My guild didn’t work out because the game didn’t work out. Almost all of the guild of the Alliance I was in (close to ~ 14 or so guilds) have all left the game or have lost lots of members. Not because they were bad guilds, not because the members got mad at their leaders – but because WvW failed to live up to their promises due to the points I have outlined.

Thrumdi.9216:

My Dead Characters.9517:

Eclipses.7152:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

When I first started playing WvW in the BWE’s and the weeks and months after launch, zergs were a valid tactic, a tool to be used, but could be tactically outplayed using coordination. More often than not, at launch the guilds in TA were outnumbered vs the guilds from other alliances, notably Ascension Alliance, due to HoD bandwagoners and queues. I remember going against devastating, brutal zergs; even when you beat them they’d come back again and again knocking on your door over and over and over like a battering ram. Like a heavyweight boxing match they’d just keep bashing you again and again until you felt like you couldn’t take anymore. As soon as you finished the last of a zerg, regrouped and got your bearings – they were on your doorstep again. It was awesome.

Once when our homeworld garrison was occupied by Ascension, my guild and 2 other TA guilds were assigned to take it back. Using about 5 guys to attack Bay and draw swords, the rest of our motley crew hit garrison for all we were worth. Eventually they were too slow getting back to garri and we ninja’d it from them. It was a great feeling.

Eclipses.7152:

I told this long story because the WvW pop has consistently dwindled now to where ZvZ is the only way to play. Sure, you can try to play tactical with a small group and ninja an obj. A zerg can take it faster though. Sure, you can try and defend your only remaining objective on the map with the handful of people you have. A zerg will just ram right through you and your defenses though. Due to culling and the way the maps are designed, a zerg will get to a location just as fast and stealthily as a small tactical group (and maybe even more so).

Zergs even have the advantage in fights vs smaller groups, due to the AoE limitation. The AoE limitation is so utterly idiotic I cannot wrap my head around it. Zergs are a valid tatic – they shouldn’t just be the ONLY tactic. AoE limit needs to be lifted/increased and some other mechanics need to go into place to dull the power of zergs and ecourage more tactical play.

very dumb section of this post, a group of 9 can decimate a group of 30+ if you are smart and know when and where to hold them. as you can see in the picture below, we had 9 arrow carts at a perfect location to defend as we had a choke point. if we had tried to defend at quentin instead of langor we wouldve DEFINITLY been wiped, but we used.. wait for it.. wait for it… STRATEGY afterwards, we retook quentin and proceded to take durios and bravost before the enemy invaders were able to get enough discouraged people to come back and fight for it again, and by that time we had fully upgraded tower, and once again we decimated them. we did this one more time before they took our keep instead, and then trebbed us. we held them off for 30 minutes after our wall was down. so yea, you think zerging is the only way to make a difference? newsflash, small group can cap most stuff if they know something called Strategy. try it, it works, just take 3 towers and your helping more than a zerg taking a keep. there are plenty of rewards to doing towervs keeps, you can get more exp and karma and money from taking 3 towers, while in a zerg you attract another zerg and they will fight you for hours on end before you take the keep. taking 3 fully upgraded towers in less than 30 minutes. now where does that encourage zerging? where? honestly, zerging is incredibly boring, and not zerging is incredibly fun.

Why do arrow carts work vs. zergs?

Because they have a 50-man limit to their AoE, not 5.

The thing is I don’t want to play an arrow cart with its 3 skills, I want to play my character.

I think I might use your quote whenever someone brings up such a stupid argument about zergs again.

Well said.

Vena.8436:

Eclipses.7152:

I guess I took that gamble when creating a guild but kitten if I didn’t think that this game was the one and that Arenanet actually had commitment to their product. This game type’s failure has cost me some friends and that is the biggest disappointment.

(2.) When the game was in development, WvW was not really shipped or intended or even seen as what it has become (they spoke of it, if you really dig through their interviews, as a place for open world PvP, for PvErs to do some thing for their server, and for servers to have a passive buff. Its like an extended, expanded version of HoH from Guild Wars 1). I doubt ANet expected its explosive popularity, its large waves of praise, and, in many ways, they were caught unawares to what good they had made.

I don’t buy this argument for a second, even though ANet is extremely fond of repeating it ad nauseum.

Pre-launch, the VAST majority of guilds were WvW guilds. As a guild leader who created a guild and scoped other guilds for ideas, inspiration and structure, I know this. I saw most guilds were either WvW oriented, or PvX with a WvW focus. WvW was talked about constantly by everybody pre-release.

There is no basis for them to believe they had no idea that it was going to be as popular as it was going to be. Furthermore, this is the same bullkitten excuse they were giving back in September when WvW was suffering due to queues.

So what is it?

Did you really not know it was going to be popular pre-release even though all the evidence pointed to it?

Did you really not know in September is was going to be popular? and if you didn’t and you found out it was

Why are you still giving us the same bullkitten excuse in February!!! that you didn’t know how popular it was going to be?

At some point, we have to stop giving ANet a free pass and begin to hold them accountable for their handling of the product they sold to us with an expectation of timely, quality service.

Teamkiller.4315:

Eclipses.7152:

Numbers beat skill in this game, especially when the zerg isn’t full of scrubs.

That’s exactly how it should be.

Not saying it shouldn’t, but zergs shoudn’t be the only game in town.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

muylaetrix.2096:

i love to zerg like there is no tomorrow, but in this game, zerging is the only game in town.

in other games, superior skill and game play can beat superior numbers to various degree. in this game it’s vitually impossible to beat 3 times your own number in open field. people get rezzed / self rezz faster than you can bring them down/finnish them. coupled with the fact that a killed bunny can instantly get up a bucketload of players again and fighting superior numbers becomes all but impossible.

no other game rewards numbers over skill as much as GW2.

I usually fight larger groups than my own, and usually win. I’ve even won out 1v20 while defending. Last night I fought off 4 invaders from taking a supply camp as a level 26 mesmer because I distracted them with clones and NPCs while I used the supply to quickly make a ballista to shoot them down. Numbers have a lot of power, but skill has more, and if you think otherwise, you need more practice.

Wrong, the enemies you’re fighting do.

Let me get this straight. You’re going up against a group of 4 who let you:

- Put down a ballista
- Build it 1x, 2x, 3x all the while running back and forth
- Fight and create clones in the meantime

And you don’t think THESE are the players that need skills? 4 players don’t even constitute a zerg ESPECIALLY when your force is bolstered by 5 NPC’s (who have blinds, snares, roots, knockdowns and a massive conal AoE), not counting 1 or 2 dolyaks.

You really should not post acting as if you did something extraordinary when it’s very clear the players you went up against were absolute scrubs. Numbers beat skill in this game, especially when the zerg isn’t full of scrubs.

The biggest disappointment I feel from WvW is that not only has it cost me the positive impression I had of Arenanet but that it’s cost me my guild.

I put a lot on the line banking that this game type would be sustainable, fun and interesting for the long haul. More than just my money – I put my time into forming a guild, recruiting, personally interviewing every single one of my members to make sure they were the type we were looking for, created a website, images, youtube, twitter, twitch, facebook – all of that.

I guess I took that gamble when creating a guild but kitten if I didn’t think that this game was the one and that Arenanet actually had commitment to their product. This game type’s failure has cost me some friends and that is the biggest disappointment.

Straegen.2938:

snip

“The Commander system works well enough.”

- It works to an end, true, but what is that end? I can tell you didn’t read my post at all just probably skimmed it. You’re also an apologist. Simply because a system FUNCTIONS doesn’t mean that the system functions correctly, optimally or ideally. You should not have to grind PvE or buy gems to afford Commander. WvW guilds who would be notoriously strapped for cash due to their players playing primarily WvW shouldn’t have to ask their players to grind PvE to be able to attain it. WvW guilds shouldn’t be forced into purchasing Commander for want of better mid-large group size management tools.

Even more so, as it is simply a huge beacon that draws everyone on the server to its banner, it only encourages zerging. It’s not just about good Commander/bad Commander and the fact that you cannot or will not see past that is very telling.

“Not that many actually”

- Are we playing the same game? Have we played it for the same length of time? WvW is at a net loss as far as content goes. They have removed both dolyaks and orbs while only adding in the breakout events.

Meanwhile, in PvE they have gotten an entirely new zone, at least 2 new jumping puzzles, new gear and weapon additions totally skewed to PvE attainment (i.e. it would have been very hard to impossible to gain those same items in WvW), new bosses, new dungeons and now a new Living Story.

What is WvW getting? Progression rank WvW only abilities and I suppose a pathway to Ascended gear. That is great and I commended them for it in my post, which you would have saw if you read it. Nevertheless they still have a host of other issues that they need to face. Adding in special skills will hold some for a time, but it won’t fix the kitten drop rate of badges, it won’t fix the metagame, it won’t fix commander, it won’t fix the lack of depth or consequence of the game type at all.

These are not simply hollow points and mere griping for the sake of griping. You can call these issues I have detailed and explained in my OP innocuous if you like, but I was here at the start of the very first BWE, remembering when everyone was huddled at the WvW portals pressing FFFFFFFFF every 10 seconds to get in. I was a guild leader of a very competitive and thriving WvW guild and I was a member of the most dedicated and celebrated WvW alliance in the Game.

And you know what? I’m still here, remembering that but seeing WvW dying out, my guild and alliance are both dead, almost all of them having left the game to the points I laid out, watching WvW stagnate and the divide between PvE and WvW get worse and worse.

Pretty innocuous huh?

I went through and +1 posts I found had substance in them and contributed to the conversation.

I started the post because I wanted a conversation to begin and it is starting. Please add your own thoughts and keep the thread alive and maybe, just maaaaybe 1 or 2 points on my list might get some attention.

Straegen.2938:

Eclipses.7152:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

1. Welcome to war. Most generals are picked by politics or money. Few are picked from within the ranks. Besides a good fighter often makes a poor commander. After a week or so, players tend to find the good commanders anyway.

2. “Guild Wars” is from lore and not in game guilds. That said, guilds are rewarded for points which can be spent on upgrades. I am also sure over time the devs will build out this system a lot more.

3. Depends on the tier. T4+ has mob fights but not really zergs. Sometimes population imbalances herd people into those mobs so they can find fights but I get plenty of small skirmish action after leaving T3. Besides a lot of people actually enjoy zerg fights (not me).

4. Not sure what people are looking for here. I get to kill other players and take objectives. I get badges, karma, xp, etc. I think they will improve the system over time though.

5. Game isn’t even close to a year old yet and it shipped with a pretty amazing WvWvW system. Does it have problems, absolutely but they already said they have a big patch in the works and will continue to improve the system.

You clearly didn’t read my post at all. Not to sound egotistical but your points are pretty ridiculous. “Generals are picked by politics or money”. Dude, this is a game. That invalidates your whole schtick right there.

I don’t need to be told the lore argument of the game’s name again, I even said in the post to spare me it. The game’s name is freakin Guild Wars and the Guild portion of the game shouldn’t suck. There’s nothing else you can say.

Yes the game isn’t a year old yet, but PvE has seen how many content additions? WvW has seen how many? How many content removals has WvW seen?

MRA.4758:

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Funny thing: I have read your tl;dr and I already know that I disagree with each and every of your five points.

WvW is a hellova lot fun for me already in its current, partially flawed form. Can’t wait for the March update.

Anyways, have fun discussing your points.

~MRA

To each their own, though I don’t know how you can possibly disagree that there is a lack of rewards in WvW vs other game types not that the devs have almost completely disregarded WvW.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Couldn’t wait for the WvW patch next month to see what changes they bring?

The changes they are planning to bring are only going to add a modicum of ‘progression’ to WvW. It will not fix its inherent lack of depth, consequence, zergvzerg metagame the lack of roles for guilds in WvW nor Commander.

So no.

Gaile Gray.6028:

Eclipses.7152:

130127-002255

While technically resolved, it does nothing to answer my question. I have access restored to my account, but I don’t even know why I was banned. I don’t even know why it was restored.

What happened? How can I make sure it doesn’t happen again? I didn’t even get an apology for the interruption of service.

From what I’m seeing the extensive notes involving your account, it appears your account was compromised. We retrieved your account from the control of a hacker and returned it to you. I do not feel that an apology is called for, since we were not at all involved in nor responsible for the fact that the account was hacked.

I’m glad that you’re back in the game. You’re welcome to discuss this with the team via the ticket if you have additional questions.

This is preposterous. My account wasn’t hacked. When you disabled the account for being hacked – it was actually ME playing in WvW.

If my account HAD been hacked, all of my gold, high level ores and what have you would have been sold. If someone had tried to access my account other than me – I would have received an email that xxx was trying to access from xxx (which I did back in October and since changed my password) – but since then I did not.

Your system is faulty. I wasn’t hacked.

130127-002255

While technically resolved, it does nothing to answer my question. I have access restored to my account, but I don’t even know why I was banned. I don’t even know why it was restored.

What happened? How can I make sure it doesn’t happen again? I didn’t even get an apology for the interruption of service.

So, my account was permanently banned for….what I don’t know.

I was told that I was banned for botting, unacceptable behavior, using macros or something else – none of which I have ever done. My account has never been hacked, I’ve never bought gold or anything of the such.

My account was banned WHILE I was playing WvW.

What caused this and how can I be sure that this won’t happen again?

Incident: 130127-002255

Ouroboros.5076:

To all the people who agree with 1&3, please understand that the only problem here is that Guild Wars is not for you. There are other games on the market (in fact, there are tons of them) that think this is the way forward, not this game. These two points are not in this game by design, as in GW1.

2 is clearly a problem though. The guilds in this game are basically a friend list sharing buffs and a common storage. We need guild-based competitive play !

You are so wrong. This game was marketed as a game that brought people together to play, so the OP’s 1st argument is totally correct. While Orr does require people to work together, there should be more in game that absolutely requires people to coordinate and work together in order to truly make this an immersive MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game.

As for the OP’s 3rd point, he is wrong about the gear treadmill, but he isn’t incorrect about the need for endgame progression. There is a huge lack of progression in this game’s post 80 content. If you don’t want a legendary, what good is karma to you? If you don’t want a legendary, what good are the tons of skill points you gain? I’ve leveled to 80 about 150x now, and other than using them to build temporary buffed siege for WvW – they’re no good to me.

Anet has dropped the ball on creating creative post 80 content and paths of progression. If anything, it’s Anet THEMSELVES who want this game to be more like WoW with their introduction of Ascended gear.

I agree wholeheartedly with 1 & 2. I agree with the spirit of #3 but not exactly what you wrote. When you’re out in the world, there really isn’t a need to be in a party, grouping with each other. Now, Orr would like to have a word with that idea – but fractals destroyed that area so it’s really a non point.

As for your point #2? totally agree. I was found and leader of an almost 60 member guild. It is INCREDIBLY difficult to organize large scale guild events in this game. WvW? You’re limited to groups of 5. Seriously hampers large scale team tactics and coordination. Commanders and their squad implementation is a joke. It offers no diversity, no coordination and no organization other than follow the blue thing on the map. Other than buffs, what good do guilds do in WvW? It shows your insignia, but who is supposed to know that represents YOUR guild? What kind of recognition do WvW oriented guilds get for helping their server in battle? What kind of rewards?

In sPvP it was an absolute DUMB idea not to allow guilds to be able to go into servers as teams in mess around. Only limiting guilds to 5v5 in tournaments was just a slap in the face. In every other game guilds are able to go in and play together…why not here?

As for your 3rd point. No, including a gear treadmill in this game wouldn’t work and it’d alienate a huge section of their fans, as did the announcement and introduction of Ascended gear. HOWEVER they should have and could still add lots of creative methods for vertical progression that would keep lots of people still playing:

- Elite skill hunts
- Trait skill hunts
- Utility skill hunts
- New weapon and weapon skills and more

The original GW had these sorts of things and it kept people interested and playing Loooooong after they had finished the original storyline/traditional content of the game. This would add lots of depth to the game’s PvE and WvW, and as they added more skills, it’d keep the sPvP meta fresh and exciting. But they can’t do this sort of thing, because 8 months from our first chance at a beta weekend and 4 months past launch there are still NUMEROUS broken abilities, bugged traits, incorrect tooltips (seriously these should have been fixed in beta) and glitches galore in about every class.

In short:

- There is no ‘Guild in Guild Wars’
- The major content systems in the game lack creativity and breadth; PvE has simply boiled down to fractal spamming, WvW is merely zerging around or getting zerged around, and sPvP is on its deathbed with a lack of variety in maps which kills strategy/team composition/meta diversity and a serious lack of features all around.

This game didn’t deserve the hype.

Loli Ruri.8307:

You’re not supposed to make mass amounts of gold. That kind of thing can kill the economy of the game. It’s called inflation.

You’re forgetting several factors. One, the game has lots of gold sinks which take that gold out of circulation.

Two, the market corrects itself, as it did here and stopped the item being as profitable as it was.

Three, no one has said that making mass amounts of gold is unintended – and it shouldn’t be. This game was, literally, marketed as ‘Play your own way’. If players choose their way as making money off of early adopting profitable crafting recipes – that is their choice and their way of play is just as valid as every other.