Showing Posts For Fleshgrinder.6724:
Someone has to do it.. Will Guild Wars 2 beat (be better, have more players etc) Wow?
Posted by: Fleshgrinder.6724
hi
I dont know if such topic already exists on this forum, so forgive me if it does.
So, Will Gw2 beat (as it was said) Wow? Will it have more players, be more enjoyable and epic etc? Obviously you can’t say if it did already, cause its too early (Wow is out for ages, Gw2 is still young). Some people say that they don’t see them selfs in Gw2 in the future. What if Pandas arent that bad? What if THEY ARE BETTER THAN GW2?! Speak your opinionNo, because Guild Wars 2 PvE end-game is non-existant, meanwhile Panda Land comes out in 2 weeks with ALOT of PvE end-game content.
Meaning most PvErs will go there (being the majority of mmo players) and all the PvPers will childishly say “Good, we didnt need you” … massive game population decline, not so supported.
To beat WoW, it needed to be better AND compete in its strongest areas. PvE endgame is incredible weak in GW2… no chance on earth.
According to polling and statistics gathered by Bioware for SWTOR, the modern MMO community has now become 50% PvEers and 50% PvPers.
So the exodus of PvEers from a game is no longer a death knell as PvP is becoming the more popular option in MMOs with every passing year.
Baiscally, the MMO genre is being taken over by RTS/MOBA/FPS fans. Which is good, those are better genres than MMOs ever were.
As the genre grows, we will reach a point where PvEers are a minority like PvPers were in the old days.
Basically just like how single player stories have become an addon in most games and MP is the focus.
I disagree with the DPS being the problem with wipes in a traditional MMO. I’t been my expirence that the tank is usually the problem. Not being able to hold agro. If the tank can’t hold agro after 10 seconds, they do not know what they ae doing.
One big flaw with your reasoning.
Assuming equal gear, if a DPS outputs as much DPS as he can, just unloads, and a tank outputs as much threat as he is able, just unloading, DPS threat will ALWAYS over-run tank threat.
That’s the nature of tanks, we cannot hold aggro off someone who is trying to pull it, as DPS can outthreat a tank in equal gear situations.
When the tank reaches his maximum TPS output, then it’s the DPS’s job to stay under that bar.
Very few MMOs have had systems where a tank could inherently out threat a DPS.
I wonder if Anet would consider “Go cat yourself” as infraction worthy on the forums.
Someone has to do it.. Will Guild Wars 2 beat (be better, have more players etc) Wow?
Posted by: Fleshgrinder.6724
Well, I don’t personally know anyone who didn’t laugh pretty hard at Pandas.
I think that is a big mistake on Blizzard’s part, using a part of the lore that no one actually cares for.
Had it been the Emerald Dream, or something else, I might have been interested.
Pandas in China? I can’t think of things I am less interested in than Asian culture. (No offense to the Asians, I just don’t find your ancient culture very interesting personally).
Probably because Warriors have 2 easy mode builds.
Mainly Bull Rush + Hundred Blade and the Signet Build
The other classes have good build too, but I guess they’re not as popular or super duper strong as those 2 Warrior builds.
Also I play Engineer too, and I absolutely love it.
The current tournament “god class” is guardians. They have both a super support build and the highest spike damage build in the game atm.
But their is a necro spec built specifically to own Guardians.
So Necros are in their weird place where they’re the perfect counter to the most OP class in tournament PvP right now, but that’s all they’re good for.
So having a Gordian looks bland and basic unless I grind a supposed "Challenge (which it isnt) for 200+ hours is fun?
I mean if there was legendary gear I would understand, but the current end-game reward system really REALLY needs work.
You all complain about other mmos, their grinds and how Guild Wars 2 would make all aspects fun, I am pointing out where they have failed and suddenly its ok.
Have you seen the ammount of complaints in game and on this very forum? It is a crap end-game. how can you not see that? why would you defend it?
Its so sad, most here would willingly bash WoW for “instant gratification” (Despite having multiple more layers of difficulty and reward for everyone, which ironically this does not have.) and yet you will happily grind mindlessly for 200+ hours and claim thats good for anyone.
So bad.
I complain about other MMOs when they’re not fun. The grind isn’t why they’re not fun, it’s the extremely boring combat.
I.do.not.care.about.rewards.
I care about dopamine.
I couldn’t care less about gear, it would be physically impossible for me to care less.
I only care about my brain filling up with happy juice.
No endgame in MMO history, GW2 included, has produced dopamine in my brain.
It’s beating up a training dummy for a shinny digital skin, it’s pretty much the antithesis of fun.
See, you seem to think there’s some way to fix this.
What you fail to understand is that dungeon running is inherently unfun and grindy.
It can’t be fixed, it’s the nature of PvE.
Every MMO in history has had bad PvE, because there’s no such thing as good PvE.
That’s the problem, and why these threads pop up on every MMO forum.
People keep doing PvE and not realizing they aren’t enjoying what they do, then they figure it out and think it’s “X game has bad PvE” instead of the true statement of “PvE is a bad game mechanic.”
(edited by Fleshgrinder.6724)
The Mauler from DAOC.
Hand to hand combat + gravity magic and auras.
If you play for item rewards, every game you ever play will be a grind forever.
Instead, try playing in a fashion that maintains as much dopamine in your brain as possible.
Then no game will ever feel like a grind.
.. Gaming is meant to be rewarding, and its factual that while challenge is it’s own reward, other intensives are alot more stimulating to have. hence why most of the player base wants these tokens.
Your philosophy is flawed because of this, you can’t change the way the human brain works, if I am going to fight my way through the same dungeon, and if its so challenging that it takes a few hours I SHOULD be able to get a piece of gear at least every 3-4 runs TOPS. not 60-hour grinds long after the challenge is gone just to get ONE piece of gear.
I can’t believe what I am reading….. the level of defence of a poorly designed end-game system is just too laughable. considering it goes against the philosophy of the entire game thus far.
As I said, if you require reward to have fun, you’re screwed. Every game you ever play will be a grind.
I play for dopamine. If that flow ever stops, I stop playing.
If you’re still playing after the dopamine drip stops, there’s something wrong.
I went into a dungeon as half a premade. Me and two guildies with two puggers.
Me and my guildies barely died, created complex kiting patterns, overlapping combo fields and all kinds of stuff to allow us to easily down every boss and trash pull.
The puggers died about 30 times a piece.
Smart players can find order in the chaos, this game has roles, they’re just not the same roles as previous MMOs.
The “tank” is a soak kiter. Warriors do this excellently with fast endurance regen.
Then you have support and control. Heals and CC. Guardians do this amazingly.
Then you’ve got damage, which should still be doing minor control and kiting when necessary.
It really is pretty similar to traditional 3 role PvE.
If you play for item rewards, every game you ever play will be a grind forever.
Instead, try playing in a fashion that maintains as much dopamine in your brain as possible.
Then no game will ever feel like a grind.
The warrior shreds with a GS, the Guardian is also nasty, but he gets retaliation and blinds so it’s a more defensive GS style.
You get GW2, a game with a light trinity of Soak/Control/Support, with all 3 also doing damage.
I dunno man, there are some nasty support and control guardian builds that are wrecking in tournament play right now. Staff and Hammer with 30% boon duration from runes.
I’m sure they’d be decent enough builds in PvE as well as they’re all about boon stacking and enemy control.
Could you point me to some of those builds, and maybe some streams? All I really care about is pvp.
Lots of guys posting their streams in the Guardian sPvP forums, just look for guys doing hammer/staff, the build is listed in one of the stickies in that forum.
Dear ArenaNet,
You kitten-well know that Jormag should be pronounced “Yormag”.
Big deal 2 million copies sold is there a point? SWTOR sold over 2 million copies months before it went live, sure the game flopped but 2 million copies means nothing.
I myself love GW2 and how it was /is done, although for a game to be truly successful in it’s genre it has to have appeal to the people who buy and play that genre. A games success is based more on word of mouth than anything else and like everything else in life you must learn to adapt or fail.
For a company to say we don’t care what consumers want and we’ll do what we please is business suicide.
I’m not bashing the game in any means and as I said I love GW2 and couldn’t even tell you how many hours I’ve put in since early game access, but there is a much larger number of MMO players than the old GW die hards. That is the point I am trying to make.
I disagree that a game has to appeal to people who were already fans of the genre.
Every genre can have cross-over hits.
Look at games like Halo, CoD, WoW.
These games brought in massive amounts of people who had not been interested in FPS or MMOs before.
For a good chunk of today’s MMO community, WoW was their first MMO.
CoD brought military FPS into the mainstream of gaming.
Halo brought shooters to consoles in a big way.
A lot of these games and series are now considered stale by people who are fans of the genre, but when they hit their peak they brought millions of new players into the fold.
Nothing says GW2 cannot be the same type of game. A game that breaks down barriers and brings in people who’ve not played many MMOs, or any MMOs, before.
Having no sub fee is a huge deal for a lot of people, enough to bring people who’ve traditionally avoided MMOs.
Clearly you missed the point of what I was saying, why would they need to appeal to people who were already fans of the game to begin with? I was talking about people who were not fans of the first game.
And I am in no way saying WoW is the better game, blizzard ruined it years ago caving into noobs by making it a faceroll and selling out to Activison.
But there are way more new mmo players than those of us who have been playing these types of games 15+ years or more. And well WoW may not be or is not the better game ( and I only use wow as a example ) it has become the standard that MMO’s are judged by now.
And when WoW game out it was judged compared to the games that came before it and many people were making the same points and complaints as now because WoW’s grind was so small compared to game’s before it that is looked very similar to “no gear progression”.
Eventually every game that is the standard of the genre falls to someone else.
WoW dethroned EQ and changed the genre.
Something will dethrone WoW eventually, maybe it’s GW2, maybe not, no one can know until it happens.
They do not need to appeal to people who are already fans of MMOs, they can appeal to new audiences and those of us who are fans of MMOs and hated all the parts of MMOs that GW2 has removed.
I personally think that dps is boring as kitten, but from a numbers standpoint support isn’t as effective. You can build a support character, but you are kittening your team when you do that. Gw2 is all about dps, with a wee bit of support and control tacked on to everyone. I don’t think Anet should change that, as I respect their vision of the game, but I don’t particularly enjoy it. I’m going to be playing as close to pure support as possible because that is what I enjoy. It’d be nice if I wasn’t also screwing over my side, but at the end of the day I play to have fun. I also enjoy the irony of a support player being a detriment to the team.
I dunno man, there are some nasty support and control guardian builds that are wrecking in tournament play right now. Staff and Hammer with 30% boon duration from runes.
I’m sure they’d be decent enough builds in PvE as well as they’re all about boon stacking and enemy control.
Big deal 2 million copies sold is there a point? SWTOR sold over 2 million copies months before it went live, sure the game flopped but 2 million copies means nothing.
I myself love GW2 and how it was /is done, although for a game to be truly successful in it’s genre it has to have appeal to the people who buy and play that genre. A games success is based more on word of mouth than anything else and like everything else in life you must learn to adapt or fail.
For a company to say we don’t care what consumers want and we’ll do what we please is business suicide.
I’m not bashing the game in any means and as I said I love GW2 and couldn’t even tell you how many hours I’ve put in since early game access, but there is a much larger number of MMO players than the old GW die hards. That is the point I am trying to make.
I disagree that a game has to appeal to people who were already fans of the genre.
Every genre can have cross-over hits.
Look at games like Halo, CoD, WoW.
These games brought in massive amounts of people who had not been interested in FPS or MMOs before.
For a good chunk of today’s MMO community, WoW was their first MMO.
CoD brought military FPS into the mainstream of gaming.
Halo brought shooters to consoles in a big way.
A lot of these games and series are now considered stale by people who are fans of the genre, but when they hit their peak they brought millions of new players into the fold.
Nothing says GW2 cannot be the same type of game. A game that breaks down barriers and brings in people who’ve not played many MMOs, or any MMOs, before.
Having no sub fee is a huge deal for a lot of people, enough to bring people who’ve traditionally avoided MMOs.
Xfire still exists?
Man, I haven’t seen that kitten since like Battlefield 2142.
Anyway, it’s nice to put down cash on a game and know I don’t have to play it constantly to get my money’s worth.
I’m giving pretty equal time to GW2 and Mechwarrior Online.
Like a bullet proof vest, the point of the chat filter is to mitigate the damage when profanity is used.
And, as it is still illegal to shoot someone who’s wearing a bullet proof vest, it’s still against the rules to swear at someone who has the chat filter up.
“Go kitten yourself you kitten kitten piece of kitten sucking kitten” is just as insulting to some as it is with the actual swear words.
The human brain fills in the naughty words automatically.
Lol, this joke of skill, you should know how to play your class once you reach 80 and all the inner tweaks, combos and such by the time you reach 80. You don’t hit 80 and then have no idea how to play your class then tell yourself “well, I gotta work on my skillz now”.
There doesn’t have to be a grind for gear but there certainly is a wall of no progression once you hit 80 and it’s really turning people off from even logging on anymore. People like to invest their time into one character to see it get better and better and also to compete with others as well. The gear grind is just a form of competition with other players.
Those people should probably find a different game, then.
You all seem to forget that a lot of us are all old school MMO players. I myself never played GW I hated how everything was instanced, but have been playing MMO’s since EQ1.
Times change, and with them games change and what gamers want change as well. Anyone who sits here and denies the fact that WoW was probably one of the most successful MMO’s to date is a moron plain and simple. As games change and the expectancy of the people who play them change any company trying to make a popular and long time running game has to learn to change with them as well or they’ll just fade away.
What may have worked in the first GW might not work now, yes the first one will always have it’s loyal fans as will any game, but the number of people who played GW does not come close to the number of people who played WoW or some other MMO. It is a new audience and a new breed of gamer playing this. and Anet will have to adapt with this or possibly face the same fate as a lot of the other recent MMO’s.
And you seem to think that many of us on the side of “no gear progression” are not old school MMO players.
I’ve been in the MMO game off and on since UO, what always drove me out of a game was the reliance on time played to get ahead.
I have been waiting for an MMO like GW2 for a decade.
I also didn’t like GW1, GW2 to me is the perfect hybrid of all the good stuff from GW1 mixed with all the good stuff from DAOC/WAR.
That’s GW2, it’s Dark Age of Guild Warhammer 2, and it’s aboutkittentime.
And the values of different gun load outs create a wide variety of balance issues in FPS the same as it can in an MMO.
The bottom line is that genre is meaningless, it’s a game.
That’s the important thing, game. Doesn’t matter what genre of game.
A good game is a good game. A came can’t be a good “X” game and be a bad “Y” game. A good game is a good game.
FPS, RTS, MOBA. These genres survive with little to no progression. Not only do they survive, but some of the games thrive for years and years with zero progression and zero new content.
MMOs for a long time have stood in the shadow of these superior game systems. Superior in any game, regardless of genre.
Now Anet has brought GW2 into the light. They have thrown away the anchors of bad game design (gear progression in a competitive game. There should never be a power reward for time played in a competitive game, ever. It’s bad, always).
Now the MMO genre can finally evolve into good, long lasting, real games that do not require time investments. Instead of being second jobs like they have been for over a decade.
This is the beginning of the end of the old MMO way of doing things.
It’s time to end the insanity of the gear treadmill forever.
This game does have trinity light, in my experience.
Though it’s not a Tank/Damage/Heal trinity, it’s a Support/Damage/Soak trinity.
Oh, and I’d like to see a distinction made between maces and morningstars.
Right now the mace models include both and each weapon was distinctive with their own styles of combat and their own strengths.
But D3 has gear progression.
I would want the following, each being it’s own category of weapon with its own abilities for each class that can use it.
Fist and Claws
Two-Handed Axes
One-Handed Hammers
One and Two-Handed Curved Blades
Tower Shields
One and Two-Handed Spears (on land)
Polearms
Crossbows
Flails and Chains
Combat Staffs (for melee)
Throwing Knives
I could probably do this all day.
I pronounce the H.
It’s a soft “Hu” in the syllable Zi
Like Za-hai, but said as one syllable.
It’s also how many of the game’s voice actors say it, but that H sound is very subtle.
It’s like what, most of us actually do pronounce the H in what, it’s just a super soft pronunciation. Just the subtlest breeze of an H.
In the days of the Norse, women were far more equal than they were in other cultures at the same time.
Norse women could vote, they were trained to fight for defence of the village, and women were believed to be the only sex strongly capable of using magic.
So Norn women are pretty similar to the actual real life Norse, though Norns are definitely even more gender equal than the Norse were.
SlimeA
HP: 100
MP: 0
ATK: 10HeroA
HP: 200
MP: 20
ATK: 20Yesterday:
After 5 round, HeroA is victorious.Today:
After 5 round, HeroA is victorious.Tomorrow:
After 5 round, HeroA is victorious.1 Year from now:
After 5 round, HeroA is victorious.Taking aside the perception of skill, HeroA may have slain many slimes throughout time, but every encounter ends the same. He does not kill it any faster or any better today than he did yesterday or in the future.
There’s no sense of growth in the character and no reason for attachment. They could have just done away with leveling of the characters like they do for PvP.
You’ve forgot about player growth.
The first time I beat Prince of Persia, Sands of Time it probably took me 15 to 20 hours.
Today I could do it in a little over 2.
I received no stat boosts, no additional gear, nothing changed between my first play through and my most recent other than my skills as a player.
That’s the only progression that actually matters.
I play to have fun, it’s pretty much the only reason.
Actually, dopamine production in my brain is pretty much the motivation for everything I do in life.
Gear progression is often what makes me stop playing an MMO, while I will dump 1000 hours into a shooter with zero progression because it’s a) fun and b) I’m always competitive, never behind the curve due to there being no curve.
That’s the best part of GW2. It realizes normal MMO progression iskitten and instead goes for something more akin to a shooter, MOBA, or RTS which people play for YEARS with zero progression.
People played Starcraft for over a decade with no new content, no progression, nothing.
People still play CS 1.6 even though 2 new CS games have been released since.
Gear progression systems kill games, good games without them last for decades.
I couldn’t do the whole standard MMO thing for years now.
I’d buy one, play for a month, hit level cap, get decent enough gear to do well in PvP and then get bored pretty soon after.