I mean this is the whole reason for the argument to remove energy cost on weapon skills. Like what were they even thinking? Citadel Bombardment costs 40 FREAKING ENERGY… 40!!! If you wanted to use this in a fight you’d have to either stand around and auto or legend swap just so you could follow it up with some weapon skills. It’s just ridiculous how held back this class is.
call me whatever you like,tell me I don’t know how to rev but…. lol, I never lack energy and you do
Once again you don’t get it… No one here is saying that we lack energy. We are saying that it’s an issue that you are FORCED to legend swap on CD just so you can have energy. Having two sets of utilities was suppose to be the benefit to playing a Rev. It was SUPPOSE to make us versatile ,but because we can’t even so much as use weapon skills without energy we are forced to swap the moment we run out. This ruins whatever so called versatility we have. Rather than swapping when we NEED to in order to adapt to our situation we HAVE to swap on CD so we can use even weapon skills. This fact coupled with insane energy costs on utilities as well as cooldowns on the ones that have decent energy costs ensures that we can’t take advantage of our core class mechanic to play a fast paced, high APM class which is what the Rev should be.
Should just be a mechanic where your legends are separate F keys. Activating a legend kicks starts the CD…..but once it’s finished you can press the same legend’s F key to instantly restore 50 energy, resetting the CD. This way nothing changes, but you can sit in one legend without sacrificing DPS.
EDIT: To be clear, this is no different from switching legends for the 50 energy, just minus the actual “switching legends” part. Nothing would even need to be re-balanced.
Even that’s a great idea ,but the whole “Rev is perfectly fine and balanced” argument is getting old.
That’s my point … Everyone is so scared about what would happen if they made these changes ,but at least they would be doing something. Something is better than nothing. I can even say with 100% certainty that removing this classes energy cost on weapon skills would not make it OP just more fun to play. The whole point of the cooldowns is to make sure that none of the weapon skills are OP else they wouldn’t be there. If not having energy on weapon skills allows us to keep an upkeep skill up a bit longer or use an extra utility that’s HARDLY going to make us OP. A slight buff at most that will make the class a bit more enjoyable to play since you actually get to use some abilities here and there rather than just using AA.
Removing energy weapon costs is a slight buff? Lol
And no one is scared. Just think of a not lazy solution to your problem. This solution is on par with people asking for ranger pet to be removed because they don’t like it.
If you think its more than a slight buff you’re insane. You don’t even use skills in PvE for max DPS you literally just auto on sword that’s it and auto already doesn’t cost energy. As far as PvP is concerned the skills all have cooldowns again it doesn’t change a thing in regards to the weapons skills. This change only allows us a slight increase in utility usage which is not a huge buff by any means. Rev is a braindead class that will remain braindead until it actually requires more than the bare minimum APM to play it.
I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that spamming AA’s isn’t effective .. it IS the ONLY thing that’s effective that’s the problem. It’s not fun to just use one skill. Sure Condi Rev doesn’t have this issue exactly ,but Power Rev does. The point of removing energy costs from weapon skills is so we can use MORE skills without completely destroying our energy to the point we can’t use but a single utility before swapping. Rev is already one of if not the lowest APM classes in the game it would be nice to fix that.
That’s my point … Everyone is so scared about what would happen if they made these changes ,but at least they would be doing something. Something is better than nothing. I can even say with 100% certainty that removing this classes energy cost on weapon skills would not make it OP just more fun to play. The whole point of the cooldowns is to make sure that none of the weapon skills are OP else they wouldn’t be there. If not having energy on weapon skills allows us to keep an upkeep skill up a bit longer or use an extra utility that’s HARDLY going to make us OP. A slight buff at most that will make the class a bit more enjoyable to play since you actually get to use some abilities here and there rather than just using AA.
I agree with this 100%. Screw uniqueness if it’s actually going to make the class far worse than the rest. Think about it. Other classes just have cds no energy cost then there is Thief who is just energy and no cds. Revs get double screwed because they have cds AND an energy cost. It makes for some super bland gameplay. As it stands now you are lucky to use one utility with weapons skills before you swap again. It was suppose to be a push and pull feel to combat and I think having to swap legends on cooldown is ridiculous. Either make weapons skills not cost energy or remove their cooldowns it’s absolutely ridiculous that Revs get double boned on their skills. This way maybe we can fit in an extra utility or two before swapping again making the gameplay a lot more compelling.
So you’re solution is to make the class like others spamming on CD except with 2 sets
Of utilities. Great solution, you put so much thought into it.And rev doesnt get “double screwed” they have access to extremely strong utilities (look at wvw) and also have 2 sets of them, it’s called a tradeoff. Maybe try finding the balance there.
I just can’t even. First of all you act like Rev’s are super complex with their weapon skills as is. Guess what? They aren’t. In PvE you just spam AA and occasionally use Precision Strikes. This argument is null and void in PvP because you even with no energy costs you wouldn’t just spam your skills you use them as they are necessary and needed otherwise you die. You’d be no different than a Thief spamming heartseeker.
Secondly, what super strong utilities are you even talking about. They slapped cds on all the decent ones or just gave them super high energy costs so you can only use one utility before having to swap again. This class is nothing like it was originally designed to be. It wasn’t even supposed to have cooldowns ,but clearly they got lazy with trying to balance it so they said screw it “cooldown here … cooldown there… perfect”. Also as has been stated many times at least 1 utility (sometimes more) in every legend are completely useless and unchangeable.
The end product is a class that doesn’t have any stronger utilities then any other class (Hell I’ll even go as far as to say they are worse than any other class where is the freaking condi cleanse utilities?) that has both cooldowns and insanely high energy cost. I think removing energy cost is a better idea because if you remove cooldowns instead you are left with Thief which is a 3 skill rotation and is also incredibly boring in PvE. Not that Rev would be or is currently better with their stupid sword AA spam.
I disagree 1000% for two reasons.
1) It should be the cooldowns which are removed.
2) If they remove the energy cost instead then we’re left like every profession and to maximise DPS will be expected to manically change weapons every 10 seconds, as well as legends for the 50 free energy.
Madness multiplied!!!!!
Your Logic is flawed in the sense that Revs still don’t work like other classes where we actually have a viable second weapon swap to switch to. Energy cost or no energy cost you are camping sword permanently. In other game modes such as PvP you weapon swap often anyway this change won’t affect that. Even still as I also said I’d be fine with removing cooldowns and leaving energy cost as well .. at least that gives us more versatility then we have now.
I agree with this 100%. Screw uniqueness if it’s actually going to make the class far worse than the rest. Think about it. Other classes just have cds no energy cost then there is Thief who is just energy and no cds. Revs get double screwed because they have cds AND an energy cost. It makes for some super bland gameplay. As it stands now you are lucky to use one utility with weapons skills before you swap again. It was suppose to be a push and pull feel to combat and I think having to swap legends on cooldown is ridiculous. Either make weapons skills not cost energy or remove their cooldowns it’s absolutely ridiculous that Revs get double boned on their skills. This way maybe we can fit in an extra utility or two before swapping again making the gameplay a lot more compelling.
I don’t see how that would be a good feature. Why would I want one of my weapons to be on top of another one? To me that just looks bad and buggy, but maybe some people like it.
That only applies if you are using two weapons that sheathe on the back. Ideally this feature would be optional because I agree having two weapons overlapping on the back could look silly ,but having two swords on the hip and a bow on the back on the other hand would look pretty freaking cool.
Edit: Not “would” it “does” look cool as I’ve already seen it in the game via the bug.
So after playing the beta for awhile I kept noticing several people that had both weapon swaps visible at the same time. Whether it be a staff and a bow on the back or swords on the hip with a rifle on the back. After talking to a few people I concluded this was clearly a bug because what I saw from my perspective they did not from theirs. Seems you can only see this on someone else’s character and not your own. Either way I’m interested to know if this is going to be a possible feature in the future because I think it would be pretty cool to be able to see both your weapons at the same time.
I guess the problem I have with that is surely there will be better trait lines to use than invocation for a condi build. So having access to Rapid Flow is unlikely. Though yes using UA for Rapid Flow would be a pretty fun way to move around.
After taking a good look at the lines I suppose using Invocation wouldn’t be terrible ,but sadly there really isn’t much options for another traitline outside of Corruption that seems to benefit a condi build. I suppose earth sigils will be nice with all that crit ,but outside of that idk.
(edited by Griffith.7238)
So with Renegade coming up we would obviously have to lose the perma swiftness uptime on Herald to use the new Elite Spec. Granted we have not seen the full trait list for Renegade the other options the Rev has for swiftness don’t really mesh well with Renegade.
1. Blasting Jalis’s Road – Running Jalis is likely not going to be a good option with what is appearing to be a condi based Legend. So running Jalis just for swiftness is not the best idea.
2. Rapid Flow Trait (Invocation) – 5 seconds of Swiftness whenever you use a skill that costs energy. Again this trait line does not mesh with Renegade given that it offers mostly improvements to Fury and Fury Uptime which other than the trait Ferocious Aggression ( +7% condi damage while under the effects of Fury) does not really benefit a condi build.
So unless Renegade has some good Swiftness options we are pretty much boned on the matter and will have to accept being turtles yes? Or is there something I am missing?
So what I’ve done here is I have my phase traversal under the keybind of R. I then have my action camera mode toggle under the keybind of Shift-R. When I need to get to a target that is outside 1200 I simply lock them with Right Click then press Shift-R followed by R-R then Shift-R again to toggle the action mode back on. Takes a little bit of getting used to ,but for any seasoned MMO player that is used to managing a plethora of keybindings its pretty easy.
Mid tier. Definitely not top nor bottom. Similar to an engi in that you can fill a fair amount of rolls but not all at once.
With icebow4 nerf though (and necro getting boosted with reaper etc) you have to keep in mind DPS tiers are a lot closer than they’ve ever been too…so its not really any good way to look at a class unless you are really into dungeon speedrun records.
Things will be shifting away from dungeons as the PvE go to as well. Fractals will be changing. Raids are coming. Really hard to say where revs will fall.
I think the general pug will see them as a replacement for a guard or war but not quite as good as either.
But stuff may change by live so who knows.
Not sure where you get your information from ,but Rev is definitely top tier atm. You think they took 3 Revs for the first Vale Guardian kill just for their buffs? If all they wanted was buffs they could’ve just brought Warrior/Ele. Not only is Revs damage extremely high ,but several of the buffing alternatives have poor means to deal with heavy movement in raids. Staff Ele and Warrior both lose DPS when forced to move. When the tank has to move the boss mid Hundred Blades there goes a solid 20k damage down the drain. The Rev on the other hand has no such handicap his damage is not nerfed by movement and can even move with the boss with UA for a free 7 might and 40k damage.
(edited by Griffith.7238)
+1 to this. I have also noticed this. Can’t say I have ever died due to this issue so it isn’t completely gamebreaking ,but it would be a much appreciated QoL fix for sure.
So can we pause arguing with Mitch for like 2 sec and answer my question about buff distribution? =D
Haha sorry, I meant to answer this too but I was a little caught up. Buffs work by subgroups. Each subgroup gets priority with their members boons. So if subgroup 1 has 2 revs and 3 other people while subgroup 2 has 3 revs and 2 other people, that’ll stagger the boons amongst those 10 players. But if Subgroup 1 has all 5 revs, well that’s wasted boons seeing as they’re all in the same grouping. If a subgroup has JUST 2 revs, they’ll give the boons to each other, then whatever may spill over will spill over by whoever is closest. Similarly if there is everyone in the same subgroup, it’ll just priorty by whoever is closest.
Ah ok thanks for the info. I’m assuming you guys didn’t have access to these subgroups since they are presumably apart of the Squad system which you guys weren’t able to utilize for the VG kill?
So can we pause arguing with Mitch for like 2 sec and answer my question about buff distribution? =D
Do you guys know how the buff distribution worked? Like if I was to have 2 Revs both running Facet of Chaos does that ensure that the entire raid will get protection or will it overlap on certain individuals etc.?
Couple thoughts:
- An NPC that you need to support/heal that provides a certain buff to your raid or debuff to the encounter boss to make the fight successful. No. Placing the fate of your group in the hands of an NPC which you have no direct control over is a stupid idea. (See, AC path 3)
- The bomb mechanic from the first boss (where you have to damage split by standing in it, or everyone takes a nuke lol) is a solid way, it can also be blocked too so that’s a really nice mechanic.
- Retaliation on a mob that also negates (or more menacingly, reflects condition damage) during a few phases in the fight is another method, that can be controlled by players simply waiting for self-healing, but Enrage Timers do exist in raids and they might have to keep doing damage to make it.
It’s kind of hard creating mechanics for healing, we should make a thread dedicated to ideas around it. Maybe even put ideas on mechanics on Crowd Control and Damage Soak.
I’ve always hated traditional MMO raid mechanics, and I’m sad to see them weaseling their way into GW2. There has to be a way to create truly challenging PvE content without including things like enrage timers and unavoidable damage.
Well feel free to come back when you figure it out. There is a reason “traditional” MMO raid mechanics exists. This reason is because its the only way it can be done. There has to be a balance. Take away the enrage timer and everyone can cheese the fight by going full defense and whittling the boss down. Take away any raid wide unavoidable damage and everyone can go full glass cannon with zero support and beat the fight. You need both of those things to actually make a fight challenging. One of the strongest aspects of GW2 combat is active Dodging. As long as they throw in mechanics which require you to Dodge in addition to the other mechanics listed above (which they have) you get a great raid system with the potential to provide a great challenge to the player base.
Yeah I wouldn’t hold those two’s feedback in high regard you are doing way better then they give you credit for. Aside from twitch firing a few Phase Smashes and Hammer 5s way off target the only real mistake you make is under valuing sword auto. With that said most of these fights are 1vX and not 1v1 in which case your touch and go fighting style is considerably more effective then trying to throw out autos which cause you to take way more damage then you would in a 1v1. You have excellent game sense. Using Chaotic Release and then snapping 180 degrees to land it and using Hammer 5 around corners to bait enemies into it are both great tactics. If you were really “button mashing” to the degree they claim you would be running out of energy long before legend swap cd and would not be able to survive as long as you do. I’d say you have a great handle on this class just don’t forget that Sword AA it’s quite strong.
well,IT IS the usage of skills in a correct situation ; the energy isnt the problem here
if you know what the ele is using for weapons and what passives are activating during combat you can easily counter him …
MUCH to learn you have, young Padawan! ^^ Remember, the journey is the goal
gl and hf
You are picking one fight out of the whole video. Essentially saying he his bad because he didn’t kill the ele as fast as he could have. You are also completely ignoring the things he did right in the fight the big one here being that he didn’t let the ele stack burn on him. He never once walked through the Ring of Fire. He didn’t play to Rev’s strength to kill the ele faster ,but he did win by denying the ele his main source of damage.
Yeah I wouldn’t hold those two’s feedback in high regard you are doing way better then they give you credit for. Aside from twitch firing a few Phase Smashes and Hammer 5s way off target the only real mistake you make is under valuing sword auto. With that said most of these fights are 1vX and not 1v1 in which case your touch and go fighting style is considerably more effective then trying to throw out autos which cause you to take way more damage then you would in a 1v1. You have excellent game sense. Using Chaotic Release and then snapping 180 degrees to land it and using Hammer 5 around corners to bait enemies into it are both great tactics. If you were really “button mashing” to the degree they claim you would be running out of energy long before legend swap cd and would not be able to survive as long as you do. I’d say you have a great handle on this class just don’t forget that Sword AA it’s quite strong.
Sure it’s not banner ,but it def the most OP pick up in the game.
Do you even… nvm. What I’m saying is a skill for reviving people, not something that helps while trying to revive someone, let me reiterate it, WHILE YOU REVIVE SOMEONE, YOU KNOW ROOTED AND UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE AND OPEN TO ATTACKS YOURSELF. Oh so you’re just going to pop Infuse Light on your sorry team mate, then leave them there? DOES RADIANT REVIVAL PREVENT STOMPING? Rethorical question, does revive skills prevent stomping?
I know exactly what you meant hence why I said “it’s no banner”. This does not change the fact that we can still get people up really fast. In PvP Radiant Revival is an instant rez due to all the aoe going on. If RR is on cd you can always just use IO for a quick rez. Sure these aren’t as strong as banner ,but they don’t have as long of cooldowns either. Revs don’t need an instant revive (which RR is anyway in several situations). Use the tools they already have.
um check herald trait line it’s called Radiant Revival. Sure it’s not banner ,but it def the most OP pick up in the game.
I was 100% running mastereffect + reshade in windows 10 a few days ago. I can’t remember if I did the initial install in 8.1 then upgraded to 10 ,but either way it worked in windows 10. I used WPs guide when I first did this. Can you post this other guide? I am currently just crashing as soon as I boot the game. I get an error message at the character screen and it just boots me out once I close it.
screenshot of the error when the game starts
https://gyazo.com/4556caf943090b53cc9111f263791bdc
(edited by Griffith.7238)
I just recently had to reformat thanks to Win 10 being difficult. Prior to reformatting I was running MasterFX with zero issues. Tonight I tried to set it up again using the exact method used in WPs video ,but it refuses to work. Reshade will not compile and it freezes my game on the character select screen. I have with 100% certainty set it up correctly ,but am out of ideas on what is causing the issue or how to fix it.
Lol are you guys really commenting on his posture? Who cares?
Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer
Why would you need a gap closer on a weapon that does more damage at range?
Hammer 3 was kinda nonsense before, but now it’s perfect since it has an invulnerability frame that makes it useful in many situations (it’s free damage)
I think you guys are missing the point here. If they allowed you to activate the button again to stay where you cast it rather then return this skill would become way more versatile. You guys are forgetting it is ground targeted and doesn’t require a target. This means that you can also use this as a gap creator. On the flip side you could use it as an initiate if you planned to switch to melee hammer 3 in and then once you land weapon swap. The weapon of course would retain its current functionality of just being able to use it and return to your location provided you don’t hit the button again. This would give the Hammer a much needed disengage as it currently doesn’t have one as well as add some more versatility to it. The only possible problem that this suggestion can present is that it might be considered too strong.
I feel like these changes do not address the issue Revenants have with conditions. Still no help for other legends, if you do not slot Mallyx then you just die to any condition burst.
Well.. Ventari has some nice condi removal too now and if staff 4 actually removes conditions properly you should have better condition removal than some other classes have on pretty much any build. I just wish they would make the ICD on Eluding nullification much lower (+/-2) so ventari would become more apealing to use instead of mallyx or maybe even instead of glint with more heal and condi removal support instead of boons.
Sorry I should have been a bit more clear.. this is from the perspective of a WvW roamer. Since I feel as if I cannot realistically use Ventari roaming, I am reduced to either using Mallyx and running a condi build, or running the risk of flat out losing to any condition based enemy on a power build using either Shiro/Jalis(preferred) or Shiro/Glint. The latter has literally no condi clear outside of traits and staff #4, and any runes or sigils you are using.
Why does everyone think you can’t beat condi builds without Mallyx. This is so far from true I can’t even believe it. I didn’t use Mallyx a single time in BWE2 and had great success in PvP. Shiro/Glint is excellent the fact that you all think you can’t win against a condi player without Mallyx is just ludicrous.
I absolutely love all the people calling this a “Nerf”. It was in every aspect a buff to Mallyx. Mallyx lost flavor that is it. It didn’t lose but purely gained in the effectiveness department.
I can’t be the only one realizing that now torment application is going to be exrtemely over the top. Be careful Roy, you are creating a monster, and it’s going to backfire.
Apparently you are the only one cause everyone else won’t stop complaining long enough to see the awesome things he did do to Mallyx and with a trait to make torment stronger on stationary targets. GG.
Yeah this kinda reminds me of League of Legends where if you didn’t do what you’re supposed to you would get shouted to death for not running meta.
Just because something is meta doesn’t mean it’s fun. In fact, most meta builds are the least fun of all, since many revolve around stacking as many damage multipliers as possible. Wow, trully compelling and unique gameplay right there. Not everyone runs meta; I find shiro absolutely boring and so I tried to avoid it as much as possible. Also, any shiro revenant I encountered (even more if they were using shield) was esentially a free kill, so I dont think shiro is necessarily stronger than mallyx.
Even if this were true (I have my doubts) the class is very new so there are a lot of people that just simply don’t know what they are doing on it. The absolute biggest drawback to Mallyx is it’s lack of stunbreaks. If someone camps Mallyx they will be a “free kill” as you put it to anyone with a brain. Just chain cc them and bam they are dead. Overall I like the changes they have made as it increases Mallyx’s damage output ,but it definitely got a lot less useful with the removal of UA’s displacement. A simple nerf would’ve sufficed or at least a fix to make it not ignore stab ,but removing it all together is going to take a huge hit to its PvP effectiveness. In it’s current state Mallyx won’t be meta (which I get a lot of you don’t care about) ,but once people learn the class and learn how to fight it you are going to hate getting cc chained while in Mallyx and not being able to do anything about it. I get that you don’t like Shiro ,but basically insinuating that it is bad is just hilarious. Shiro is by far better then Mallyx. You get a gap closer(currently the best in the game), an amazing stunbreak, on demand superspeed/quickness, and a 5man AoE 3 sec stun. Mallyx can’t touch that from a PvP or PvE perspective.
Oh and you guys realize the nerf to Jade Winds might as well not even be a nerf. You wouldn’t overlap the stuns so even if you wanted to use 2 back to back at 100 energy there is only a 2 sec downtime(3 if you count the cast time) and not 5 as the stun itself lasts 3 sec.
(edited by Griffith.7238)
It just hit me, if Unyielding Anguish doesn’t have a CD, then this skill is directly conflicting with the nerfed EtD. They both do the exact same thing, pulsing torment in area, just in a different way. Kinda like stability and break bars, they’re essentially duplicate functionalities, UA probably being the winner cost-effective wise. Even more reason not to change EtD!
Your posts literally blow my mind. You seem to be the most unreasonable person in this entire forum. I get that you are upset that Mallyx lost a lot of flavor I am too ,but some of the things you say are just completely void of logic. There are plenty of reasons to use EtD. Reason 1 EtD will be vastly superior to UA on any target that is moving period. You can move out of UA as long as the Rev is near you you cannot move out of EtD. EtD also provides a 10% stat increase where as UA provides chill. They both have their uses and EtD is definitely still deserving of being called an Elite. Please control your rage and use logic when you type.
A stack of torment per second is worth an elite? Are you serious? I am not even gonna continue this conversation with you lol
With a 10% stat increase yes. Especially when he plans to lower the cost and make torment do more damage on targets not moving.
Aside from a loss of flavor these changes make Mallyx significantly stronger then its previous iteration. I am going to miss displacement if it doesn’t get re-implemented ,but these changes really improve the Legend. Previously Rev’s could barely apply condis to their target if they weren’t getting slammed with condis themsevles. Not every opponent applies a ton of condies. If you were fighting a Power based opponent you barely did any damage to them because the only real condi application you got came from the mace and from a skill that you can easily move out of it. This is a huge step in the right direction at a cost to flavor sure ,but there can be a compromise.
I really wasn’t going to roll a Rev but that video is freaking amazing and has convinced me otherwise. The class itself seems amazing. Why has every Rev I’ve fought in the beta weekends been trash? I kind of wish I’d come across more opponents as skilled as the OP.
Because it’s a new class and a lot of people have no clue how to play it. I for one never lost to a single other Rev during the BWE (playing as a Rev). It’s pretty interesting to see how monumental the skill gap can be on the class (Energy Management OP I guess).
Oh and great post Wand I subbed to you awhile back as you seem to be the most skilled Rev (thats actually posting gameplay) at the moment so well done on picking up the class so fast. The only things I personally think need to be changed are Unyielding Anguish (cause it is completely OP) and Jalis Taunt. The taunt makes no sense at 50 Energy when you can use Jade Winds and effect more targets for the same cost. Aside from some trait refining I think everything else should stay as is. Most things in this class are balanced around Energy and I think they are balanced well. If for instance you decide to spam Phase Traversal to catch up to or stick to a target by the time you reach them you will be completely out of energy. This will force a Legend Swap locking you out of that Legend for 10 sec. This is balanced to me. I just used all of my Energy for what could potentially be a very risky play.
(edited by Griffith.7238)
I honestly think Glint is too strong. Having no energy consumption even on actives is just not right imo. There needs to be some. Energy is never an issue with glint, and I dont think that sits well with the rest of how the class works. You should be punished if you dont manage your energy well with Revenant and with Glint this never happens. The heal is also too strong, it needs either a better tell or a cast time.
I also seem to be the only who dislikes the Herald traits. No matter what build I make if I take herald I always end up using the same traits. Something’s really off here. Shield also isn’t great, at all.TL;DR: Glint is TOO strong. Herald and shield, not so much.
The actives do NOT need an energy cost. They have a CD for that very reason. If you aren’t using energy in Glint then you aren’t using enough Facet’s or any Weapon Skills.
From what we know, Rytlock is the first Revenant. He returns from the mists a changed Charr. From what I’ve read is people hear about Rytlock, then start learning to become Revenant themselves. I don’t see Rytlock as much of a teacher, so I don’t know how people are supposed to follow in his footsteps…
Basically you can sum it up to “You are Revenant, because video game.”
I imagine you as a character emerge from the Mists like Rytlock did.
Yeah, except you will actually emerge from Divinities Reach to help Logan kill some centaurs :/
OMG I think I just died.
There is a whole other thread where people are complaining about how OP Coalescence of Ruin is lol. Which one is it OP or garbage?
IMO the Hammer feels great the lackluster AA is more then made up by Coalescence of Ruin with its low cd and powerful damage output. Field of the Mists only 6 sec downtime 12 sec cd with 6 sec duration yes please. Hammer is awesome.
Group dps =/= Personal dps. If you look at Rev’s, most of there dps comes from sword AA combined with IO. With roughly 40-45% uptime, this can make Rev’s personal dps pretty decent and just under Eles/ Condi engineers (Knox had a good post/ graph showing this). But that’s because of quickness, that same quickness will go to the whole party. A PS war or thief with the same might stacks, vuln on boss, fury AND that quickness, will do more dps than the Rev because they have more damage modifiers.
Again, if you were a Thief or War in a party with a Rev, their dps will be higher. I’m not sure about Ranger or Guard but losing 10-15% dps in gear because you only had exo’s on (assuming the other party members had ascended trinkets/ weapons and exo armor which is pretty standard these days) then I doubt you were out dpsing anyone in that particular group – obviously similarly geared would be different but you imply you were out dpsing everyone.
Don;t get me wrong, Shiro’s IO is amazing and glint’s utility (esp boon duration) is why I have constantly said this will likely be meta. Furthermore, your dps rotation in PvE was pretty similar to mine (i.e. only AA + IO in Shiro, rest in Glint).
I wasn’t implying that I was out DPSing everyone in my party at a given moment what I was implying that in their same gear I WOULD out DPS them. This would be true for the 4 classes I play a.k.a Warrior/Guardian/Thief/Ranger. How are you going to point out Knox’s post and then say that Thief and War do more damage when his post points to the contrary. Based off his data alone the only classes that can beat Rev in their current state are Ele and Engi.
You are talking about damage modifiers as if they are the be all end all. You are forgetting the base damage of Sword AA. We get plenty of damage modifiers on the Rev especially after the change to Rapid Lacerations to be damage instead of %attack speed. Just because a Warrior or Thief have more %damage doesn’t mean they do more damage then the Rev. It would mean they would do more damage then the Rev IF they were using the same abilities ,but obviously this isn’t the case. A Thief’s basic single target rotation is CnD, Backstab, 1 1/3 AA chain rinse and repeat until sub 20. You don’t need math to see that that doesn’t put out what the Rev can with just AA chain simply look at the numbers on the screen and the rate at which they pop up. Just the three AA attacks from Rev sword would produce more damage then that rotation in a fraction of the time and this isn’t even including the Life Siphon the Rev provides which is another underestimated amount of damage that you get for free.
So I wasn’t trying to say that I was topping DPS with my cele jewels ,but just that I easily would have been if I was min/maxed. I was also probably topping a lot of the classes even in that gear. Knox’s math shows where Rev lies in terms of damage and it is above Ranger/Warrior/Thief/and Guardian.
Lol, for the life of me, I though IO was AOE quickness, but then I saw a video where it wasn’t being spread. I just checked the wiki again and it is indeed only for yourself! That changes everything, what I was getting at was a warrior’s dps would be higher than a rev if they had the same quickness uptime, but as IO doesn;t spread that quickness, ignore what I said.
LoL its ok I thought Facet of Chaos active was giving AoE quickness ,but it’s just Superspeed. I still think it does lol at least it seemed like it unless other people in my group were just popping TW or FMW when I happened to use it. I’ll check for sure next BWE.
Group dps =/= Personal dps. If you look at Rev’s, most of there dps comes from sword AA combined with IO. With roughly 40-45% uptime, this can make Rev’s personal dps pretty decent and just under Eles/ Condi engineers (Knox had a good post/ graph showing this). But that’s because of quickness, that same quickness will go to the whole party. A PS war or thief with the same might stacks, vuln on boss, fury AND that quickness, will do more dps than the Rev because they have more damage modifiers.
Again, if you were a Thief or War in a party with a Rev, their dps will be higher. I’m not sure about Ranger or Guard but losing 10-15% dps in gear because you only had exo’s on (assuming the other party members had ascended trinkets/ weapons and exo armor which is pretty standard these days) then I doubt you were out dpsing anyone in that particular group – obviously similarly geared would be different but you imply you were out dpsing everyone.
Don;t get me wrong, Shiro’s IO is amazing and glint’s utility (esp boon duration) is why I have constantly said this will likely be meta. Furthermore, your dps rotation in PvE was pretty similar to mine (i.e. only AA + IO in Shiro, rest in Glint).
I wasn’t implying that I was out DPSing everyone in my party at a given moment what I was implying that in their same gear I WOULD out DPS them. This would be true for the 4 classes I play a.k.a Warrior/Guardian/Thief/Ranger. How are you going to point out Knox’s post and then say that Thief and War do more damage when his post points to the contrary. Based off his data alone the only classes that can beat Rev in their current state are Ele and Engi.
You are talking about damage modifiers as if they are the be all end all. You are forgetting the base damage of Sword AA. We get plenty of damage modifiers on the Rev especially after the change to Rapid Lacerations to be damage instead of %attack speed. Just because a Warrior or Thief have more %damage doesn’t mean they do more damage then the Rev. It would mean they would do more damage then the Rev IF they were using the same abilities ,but obviously this isn’t the case. A Thief’s basic single target rotation is CnD, Backstab, 1 1/3 AA chain rinse and repeat until sub 20. You don’t need math to see that that doesn’t put out what the Rev can with just AA chain simply look at the numbers on the screen and the rate at which they pop up. Just the three AA attacks from Rev sword would produce more damage then that rotation in a fraction of the time and this isn’t even including the Life Siphon the Rev provides which is another underestimated amount of damage that you get for free.
So I wasn’t trying to say that I was topping DPS with my cele jewels ,but just that I easily would have been if I was min/maxed. I was also probably topping a lot of the classes even in that gear. Knox’s math shows where Rev lies in terms of damage and it is above Ranger/Warrior/Thief/and Guardian.
4. If the situation permits I will use use Facet of Chaos active in order to give my party quickness.
How is it that you’re getting aoe quickness from Facet of Chaos? If I’m reading it right, it gives aoe super speed and not quickness. Without this secret quickness source, Mallyx and embrace the darkness should give more DPS than Glint.
In a perfect world Mallyx would give more personal DPS. Unfortunately most scenarios are less then perfect and it is not just about personal DPS. In order for Mallyx to give you more DPS then Glint you would need to be at perma 25 stacks of Might with perma fury. Sure other classes can do this ,but in the event that they don’t Mallyx ceases to be the best option. With Glint you are getting way more group Utility and in a lot of cases sacrificing next to nothing. I don’t have the math in front of me ,but we are dealing in very small differences. With Mallyx you get 10% stat boost that is it. With Glint you get Facet of Elements active which is a huge boost to DPS as it doesn’t stop you from using AA as well as damage mitigation via weakness. You get a 15 sec, 5 target 20 Vuln attack with Facet of Strength active which again other classes can provide ,but few as fast or as often as that ability. Being able to put every target at 20 Vuln stacks instantly upon engaging them that can be further built upon is a big deal. You get a stun break something Mallyx sorely lacks. You lose all DPS when you are CC’d. Both Heals are good but Facet of Light definitely pulls out on top with its 0-100% capability as well as essentially being an invuln.
Needless to say you can see where this is going. Glint not only does wonders for your own damage ,but increases your parties as well which is far better then a slight increase in your own personal DPS. Even in a perfect group I can’t justify using Mallyx over Glint for some nudge of extra DPS at the cost of a ton of group Utility.
From my experience with the Rev I’ve seen the highest potential personal AND party DPS through Shrio/Glint. If the dungeon party is of solid make up aka an Ele and PS War my rotation if you will plays out like so.
Weapons Sword/Axe/Hammer
1. Start out in Glint with Facet of Darkness/Strength/Elements up.
2. If Might stacking is solid I will consume Facet of Strength right off the bat for an instant 20 stacks of Vuln on up to 5 targets.
3. I will then consume Facet of Elements for some AoE damage and Weakness application.
4. If the situation permits I will use use Facet of Chaos active in order to give my party quickness.
5. I will generally use Frigid Blitz on cd while in Glint. I use Unrelenting Assault only in Glint and only if I’m not personally at 25 Stacks of Might or If the Evade is needed.
6. I will then pop Facet of Nature active to further increase the boon duration of applied boons so they last while I switch into Shiro(which doesn’t really matter with an Ele and War in the group cause Fury and Might won’t drop off anyway)
7. Switch to Shiro pop Jade Daggers for some extra DPS if you want and then IO + Auto Attack until energy is drained at which point Legend swap is off CD.
8. Switch back to Glint and rinse and repeat.
If the group is not optimal I will use my Facet actives a bit more sparingly. For instance I won’t consume Strength if targets are at 25 Vuln stacks. I will always use Facet of Elements on cd as it provides a nice boost to damage and applies AoE weakness which helps the party mitigate damage. I generally also use Facet of Chaos active on cd for the AoE Party Quickness.
Using this rotation or priority does far more damage then I can do on any of my other classes (Thief, Guardian, Warrior, Ranger). The crazy part is it still does more then them without being min/maxed. My jewelry had Cele gems in it for all of the Beta and I still pulled insane DPS.
Revenant dps didn’t feel as high as Warrior or Range to me, and that was with the 10 might stacks. If all those 3 classes had the same might stacks, Rev would not be top.
I do acknowledge Rev’s provide lots of boons, but they will never displace a Phalanx warrior for might sharing solely because you can’t get more than a dozen might stacks shared (you can get 25 on yourself, not for whole group though). As such, you’d need 2 Rev’s for 1 phalanx war. Furthermore, you don;t really need more than one source for fury, regen or protection, so I doubt you’d see more than 1 rev in a dungeon party as part of the meta.
As for crit chance, even with fury, most classes in full zerk sit at 50% crit chance. Add % from food and buffs, they’re still only 80-85%. Spotter and discipline will take them to 100 and don;t forget some bosses lower crit chance. I don;t see why a Rev will displace a Ranger, when you can still take both (and get even more crit dmg from frost spirit).
The main class that should be fearing Rev’s are Guardian’s, Rev’s have better projectile blocks, more boons, possibly more healing (depends where Ventari ends up) and similar dps. Guardian’s best counter is their access to Aegis, but as DH hasn’t improved there PvE that much, Rev’s are better placed. Right now, I see 2 eles, 1 phalanx war, 1 chrono, 1 rev as possible meta.
With regards to your original concerns, I actually think the current upkeep costs are fine for 1 big reason. If you have the upkeeps on, you seriously hurt energy regen to the point that you cannot keep 5 upkeep points and do much more than auto attack. Also, not stance switching wastes access to a free second heal, 50 energy and w/e utilities/ elites you have.
This couldn’t be more wrong. The only classes that can even touch Rev on damage are Ele and Engi. Comparing a Rev’s damage to a Guardian is like comparing an NFL player to a High schooler. I still don’t see Rev’s flat out replacing other classes, but they will fit into the meta wonderfully. I think it’s also great having 2 Revs in your party. 1 Rev runs Fury , Might and the other runs Protection and those are some serious boons ,but it doesn’t really invalidate what other classes bring. Just because we give 100% Fury doesn’t mean that are party benefits from Roiling Mists cause they don’t. They still get 20% not 40%. So They can always benefit from other classes Prec buffs. Sure we don’t need them ,but everyone else does. Just like everyone else needs the Might from Ele and War because we don’t stack it as well as them we just give a nice base of 6-7.
Again though if you think Ranger or Warrior was doing more damage then your Rev then you weren’t playing it right. This classes damage is down right disgusting.
Disengaging is not difficult on a Rev. Stab on dodge + Shiro will get you away very fast. Impossible Odds is super speed this means it ignores combat you can literally toggle it on just to run away. Anyone in combat behind you will not be able to keep up. This is even easier in WvW. Need to run away really fast? Simply target one of the tons of PvE mobs around and use Phase Traversal select a new target and repeat. Then laugh as you now cover more distance in a short amount of time then any other class in the game.
This is a L2P issue really.
Most people will rather have something nerfed than actually L2P and level up their game, do a research about countering and so on. Like actually put an effort into it.
If you guys keep saying it is a L2P issue, then pls TELL us how to counter it. You can only interrupt it before the attack began, because after you are dodging each cc an enemy is throwing against you. If you blind the skill before it gets used, just 1 of the 7 hits will fail, the other 6 will hit you. You can’t use AoE damage like against a backstab thief, because you are evading the whole time.
If there is any real counter (and it isn’t a counter to use a invuln skill with 60s cd against a skill with 10s cd), please tell us! Block does work but has mostly much larger cd as UA too. Some professions don’t have any blocks (just like necromancer for example).
You cant have a counter for each and every single UA. Just like you cant have one for each and every single 100b/rapid fire. That would be unfair
However
Ranger:Gs block, double evade
Guardian: blind,aegis,ring of wardin, double evade
Warrior: shield block, double evade
Thief: sb evade, tripple evade (daredevil), staff evade, stealth, double evade
Engineer: shield block, turrets to divide dmg, double evade
Mesmer: stealth, illusions to reduce dmg, double evade
Elementalist: shock aura on demand, double evade, perma 50% protecction(tempest)
Necromancer: double evade, enter death(reaper) shroud, minions to reduce dmg
There you go short cd methods for each class, if you dont have one on those in your build, then like I say, you cant expect to have a counter for everything in any build.
Cheers
^Boom….
This is a L2P issue really.
Most people will rather have something nerfed than actually L2P and level up their game, do a research about countering and so on. Like actually put an effort into it.
If you guys keep saying it is a L2P issue, then pls TELL us how to counter it. You can only interrupt it before the attack began, because after you are dodging each cc an enemy is throwing against you. If you blind the skill before it gets used, just 1 of the 7 hits will fail, the other 6 will hit you. You can’t use AoE damage like against a backstab thief, because you are evading the whole time.
If there is any real counter (and it isn’t a counter to use a invuln skill with 60s cd against a skill with 10s cd), please tell us! Block does work but has mostly much larger cd as UA too. Some professions don’t have any blocks (just like necromancer for example).
You have already been told many times how to counter it. I find it funny that double dodge isn’t aloud to be a counter when several other classes have abilities or combos that literally force both dodges out of you. Look at a hammer warrior or Rapid Fire ranger. This isn’t something unique to UA. 2 of the absolute best counters to it are Torment and Confusion. From my experience I take confusion activation ticks with each hit of UA even though I’m not using a new ability. If I receive a bunch of confusion stacks and use UA without noticing I literally kill myself. Same goes for torment.
As other’s have said before IT IS A LEARN TO PLAY ISSUE. This skill can be and does get countered. I’ve lost plenty of 1v1’s on my Rev after extensive play. I’ve even lost to another Rev that wasn’t even using Sword. The TTK in this game is incredibly short yes UA only has a 10sec cd but it only takes 3 to kill the Rev. Bait is UA punish him for using it then kill him before it comes off cd. You know the same way you beat a power ranger using Rapid Fire. If the skill was so overpowered then the class would never lose and I would love to see one person in here say they haven’t lost a single 1v1.
Just Aegis and Condi removal … we have plenty of access to protection and Condi removal is only applicable outside of Mallyx.
How does Mace generate a lot of might? I could only proc 1 blast from skill #3.
If you do it right you can proc all 3 hits takes a little finesse
Mace 3 does ok power damage ,but there would really be no reason to use it over sword. It’s really a Condi weapon at heart.
No it isn’t… Sword/Axe with Shiro/Glint or Shiro/Mallyx both do more DPS then any condi build that a Rev can use. In fact those builds were recently tested at around 19k DPS which is either 2nd or 3rd out of all classes.