Guild Wars 2

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

sebradle.7034:

Would give you more than 20 different builds.

If you add a new utility skill to say shiro that would give you four utilities to choose from for three slots.

That is 4 choose 3 = 4 ways you can have a shiro bar

There is 5 legends so you have 5 choose 2 = 10 combinations of legends

So if you had shiro/ventari
4 ways to have shiro * 4 ways to have ventari = 16 different combinations of shiro/ventari load out

16 * 10 = 160 combinations of utility bars if you gave each legend a new utility.

I think my math is correct my combinatorics is a little rusty. Someone can check it if they want.

You’re absolutely right, I figured out I was totally off later, but didn’t take the time to come and correct myself So I’ll repeat myself, correctly this time, 160 is better than 10

Griffith.7238:

Yup 40480 combinations with only like maybe 3 viable ones .. gg

It all depends on the game mode and the playstyle. I play my mesmer differently than guildmate1, who also plays differently than guildmate2, etc. Some people just don’t like to stick to the meta

I play my mesmer in PvP differently than in WvW, and differently than in PvE. Yet in WvW, every mesmer players use them the same way. First time I got bombed and died, now it’s o-so easy to interrupt and counter them: they are soooo predictable. Same goes for the Revenant, all playstyles are the same (10 combinations available, yet they don’t differ greatly), not all skills are useful in every game mode: in a dungeon, using Shiro is a bit useless, in PvP Ventari is a bit more difficult to use at full potential, etc. I suppose they have a bit more ambition than turning it into a “face-roll on your keyboard hoping you have enough energy”…

Yes some people do play differently then most are you saying that’s not possible on the Rev? In fact not only do I believe that there are many options for customization within a single type of build for the Rev ,but I would say they have more options then any other class in the game.

Lets break it down.

Weapons:
Pretty much every class is restricted between weapons depending on the type of build they want to go (Power, condi, support, etc.) this is no different for the Rev. We only get 1 condi weapon ,but we get Staff, Hammer, Sword/Sword, and Sword/Axe for Power. Right there that’s 6 possible weapon combinations for the Power based Rev’s (without overlapping weapons more if you overlap)(we def need more condi variety ,but we have more then enough for power based).

Utilities:
So this where everyone else seems to think the Rev lacks in variety and customization. This could not be further from the truth. Lets look at the current classes. With the majority of the current classes they have a limited pool of useful utilities to work with. A lot of these utilities get thrown out right off the bat due to being practically useless ex. Guard Spirit Weapons, Thief Venoms, Thief Tricks, etc.. Now let’s say for instance we have two D/P Thief’s these Thief’s could not share a single utility meaning they both have all 3 utilities different from one another. You say that’s customization and in a degree it is however with those 3 different utilities they will still play like a D/P Thief meaning they are going to play generally the same way. Now lets look at Rev. The Rev has 4 Legends that can benefit a Power based build Glint/Jalis/Mallyx/Shiro. That is a total of 6 combinations all of which play not slightly ,but completely different from one another. Even if you only differ in one Legend from another player that is 1 Heal, 3 Utilities, and 1 Elite difference which is more unique then any other class can be with the same type of build and that’s not even touching on the people that use 2 different Legends such as one guy using Glint/Shiro the other using Jalis/Mallyx.

So there it is 6 different Weapon combinations and 6 different Legend combinations for just Power based builds. How can anyone ANYONE say that Rev does not have any room for individuality.

The fact of the matter is that yes the Legends are tailored for specific things ,but we don’t have to choose only 1.

Shiro/Glint: Mobility, Damage, Support
Mallyx/Glint: Condi Control/ Damage/ Support
Shiro/Mallyx: Mobility, Damage, Condi Control
Jalis/Shiro: Tank/Support/Mobility/Damage
Jalis/Mallyx: Tank/Support/Condi Control/Damage
Jalis/Glint: Tank/Support/Damage

Do you see where this is going? They all achieve similar things in completely different ways. I could use every single one of those with a Power based damage build. Sure some will definitely be better then others ,but will most be viable… yes. Half the people don’t care about viability in which case they will all be 100% viable. Look how much customization that is before you even consider the 6 weapon combinations.

PS. You really could throw Ventari in there as well ,but I’m not too happy with the state of that Legend at the moment and trying to do damage while moving that tablet around seems like a real chore so I left it out. Oh and I left out Shield kitten .

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

Well I think it’s pretty much a given that you can get away with anything in most PvE settings Meta builds are designed for Speed Runs. Everyone plays for their own reason ,but I think most people play to play with other people thats kinda what MMOs are about and in that case you are doing not only yourself but you whole group a disservice by running some random build that doesn’t fit into the meta. PvP is exponentially more strict and if you want to excel Meta is really the only way to go. Most meta builds leave a few utilities optional ,but that doesn’t mean you should just put anything there is always gonna be a choice between like maybe 1-3 Utilities out of the 25 or so you have. Yes other classes have more options then Rev ,but saying some bs like “They have 40,000 combinations to choose from” is completely inaccurate. If you want to play your class at it’s highest level you have very few combinations to choose from.

The meta is the meta because some popular people decide that works better and in the case of pvp likely counters the previous meta. I don’t think random strangers being mad at you is a reason to run the strict meta. If you play for others approval you’re playing wrong. If you run with friends or have cool guildies they don’t care much what you run.

It’s not about playing for someones approval its about being effective. If you aren’t playing to win then yeah I suppose it doesn’t matter what you run (which is fine not everyone is competitive) ,but there’s a reason you don’t go AP Darius because its not effective. I could care less what other people in the match think of my performance ,but I do care about what I think of my own performance and I want to know win or lose that I did all I could. I don’t want to say to myself after that match “Oh we totally would’ve won that if I wasn’t using this completely kittened build”.

I’m not talking about level 50 fractals or tournament pvp. I’m talking about 99% of the game. What you run as long as it isn’t a complete mismatch doesn’t matter all that much but having the ability to customize to fit your style makes it more fun.

That’s the only scenario in which this argument makes any sense ,but considering “leveling” is such a small portion of the game I would rather them not make huge design changes based off of it. If all you do at 80 is run around solo and kill stuff then it’s a miracle you still play this game ,but don’t take that as an insult to each his own I personally see that as something that would be quite boring.

Also not that Vuln is a super hard condi to come by ,but Rev are literally the King of it. 20 Vuln instantly with 1 ability on a 15sec cd + 3 more every auto chain not including the trait passive proc.

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984:

It’s not about how easy it is to toggle it on and off, it’s about effectiveness. The range on the facets are only 600. Unless the group is running really close to each other the swiftness is not going to be beneficial on every 3 second tick. Warrior has 1,200 range swiftness, Engi has own perm swiftness, Ele can blast perm swiftness easy, etc. Plus you have to stay with the Glint utility set to maintain the facet. Which means no quickness from Shiro… which means you’re giving up DPS… If you’re solo and need the fury and might then yes stay Glint, but if you’re with a group Glint is pretty worthless. Glint utility needs a huge buff for both pve and pvp imo.

600 range is plenty. Maybe it’s not amazing for WvW ,but that’s one facet of the game. 600 is fine for PvE and it’s also fine SPvP 600 will cover almost any conquest point. You keep mentioning Ele and PS warrior which both have disadvantages. In the Eles case it’s down to combos which often times requires help from the group so the Ele isn’t doing it alone. In the warriors case they are required to pick up their banners and move them. Then you have the Revenant who literally hits a button and done. Sure it may take a little bit longer to stack to 25 Might but the Upkeep is far easier. This is the same across all buffs it’s far easier for the Revenant to upkeep them then the other classes they literally just hit a button and its done no combos or banner moving required.

Fade.1743:

Revenant can keep a permanent uptime on fury for a group, but an Elementalist with the rest of the group using blast finishers (or a D/F ele) can do it better. Revenant with a facet and a trait can keep a very high uptime on a good amount of might. But a Phalanx Strength warrior can do it better. The point is not to be better than what we have, it’s to be comparative while still offering viable alternatives. What if you don’t have a PS warr in the group, oh look…you can have a Herald Revenant fill in. What if you don’t have an Ele in the group? Oh look…Revenant can fill in. It’s about playing what you want and being able to offer unique ways to support the group. Balance should NEVER be about being equal…as that leads to homogenization. It’s about being comparable. Yes, some professions are going to be better at some roles than others. Ideally, if all the professions are OP with one role and UP with another…then you have unique playstyles form and create VARIETY with your professions.

^This exactly.

They need to focus on making the skills we have top notch instead of worrying about making more that will either be better then ones we have forcing the current ones to the side or worse and be completely ignored.

Ok … answer this one question then. The other classes get 25 Utilities with their Elite Spec. If those classes got to pick 6 of their best Utilities instead of just 3 would they be overpowered?

You guys keep talking about customization when it isn’t a reality. Most other classes have 6 Utilities (if they are lucky) that are even good for any particular type of content. Usually when deciding what utilities you want there is at least 1 if not 2 of them that are just locked in right away cause you know you really need them. Then there is 1 more utility that you might be on the fence about and you are left with maybe 1-3 options for that 1 slot. So if any one class got to say pick 6 utilities instead of just 3 they would have a perfect build they would pick the best 6 the class has to offer and call it a day.

Let’s not even talk about the fact that you guys keep asking for more options yet fail to offer up a single one for any of the Legends. You know why you haven’t offered up any suggestions? Because we all know exactly what you want. You want condi clease on Shiro. You want mobility on Jalis. You want cc breaks on Mallyx. You want to make a class that has literally zero weaknesses. The devs can only come up with so many ideas and you guys aren’t suggesting any. They also know balance and recognize that this would wreck it. You want more options on Shiro? What are they going to add? Another movement skill? What would be the point? They only thing they could add would make it too well rounded and overpowered or be completely useless. They add more you pick the best 3 every time every one picks the same 3 because they are the best its an illusion of choice just like all the other classes you people seriously need to think before you open your mouth cause the nonsense that follows is baffling.

NeroBoron.7285:

Wandelaar.3746:

Kicker.8203:

There are lots of threads about this issue but my opinion is they should at least add 1 more utility to each hero if not 2. If they add 1 good one it would be good for release

That’s what I was thinking too, but I’ve run into a slight issue.
It seems unlikely they were planning to add skills to the legends, as indicated by the Glint reveal. They had 6 facets to choose from, and because they were only planning on making 5 skills, they decided to use the 6th facet to make a unique profession mechanic. This would make it really tricky for them to add another Glint skill, as they’re out of facets now.

This isn’t this big of a deal, but it might make it really hard to design a new skill for Glint.

It is still beta they could just make this proffesion mechanic a glint stance skill lol

And that would instantly make Glint a lot less powerful. Take away a 25 sec cd that applies 5 boons and force me to choose between it and one of the other 3 Utilities. No thanks.

You guys can say that the Rev lacks the same amount of customization as other classes ,but its equally traded for more versatility in combat. I don’t see any other classes getting 2 heal skills , 6 utilities , and 2 elites accessible in combat.

It seems no one understands the concept of a trade-off anymore. You guys will whine so much they will give you extra utilities even though they aren’t needed then will start asking for access to 3 Legends at once. It’s clear you guys just want Revs to be the be all end all of all the classes.

NeroBoron.7285:

Griffith.7238:

radioAspen.6829:

Mostly a pve perspective, but.

I think something that people are overlooking in this thread is that the m-word doesn’t dictate a single, static build that is optimal for every single situation, rather it dictates the build that is optimal for that specific situation, and as such it’s dynamic. Even if there are three obvious “meta” utility choices for this piece of content, only two of them may be “meta” for another with a new skill taking up the third slot, etc. If you look at actual build or dungeon guides, they give you all kinds of situational heal, utility, and even trait changes to make for specific reasons.

Furthermore, we can make informed decisions based on other factors. If I’m pugging with my PS warr, I may take more sustain or Fury generation than I otherwise would with an experienced party where I know other people are going to support me.

Revenant currently lacks this kind of finesse. You’re essentially choosing your entire kit on the basis of the one skill you may need. This gives Revenant fewer ways to approach any content, and adding options puts them on par with other classes, not above them.

I agree that other classes do function this way and most people look at it as them having versatility ,but I think that’s not really the case. Every class in this game has an over abundance of crappy Utilities. The Revenant on the other hand has fewer Utility options ,but they are much more well rounded. People think that Revs need the same options as other classes ,but I don’t see that as the case. Rev’s have better Utilities by far then the other classes and if the other classes had better Utilities they wouldn’t need to swap them out an an encounter to encounter basis. Most classes get 1 maybe 2 Elites in which they swap in an out. The Guardian only had 1 up until the removed Tomes. The Rev on the other hand has 5 good Elites every single one is good.The same can be said for Heal skills. 1-2 decent ones for every other class. The Rev has 5 good ones. So I do believe that if the Rev had that level of customization it would put them above the other classes and I also believe its not needed because the kit we have already is better then what other classes are getting.

I agree that every other class only has any smaller pool of really good skills and I am not happy about that as well. For example on the ele you usually pick the signet or aether heal because they are the most effective ones. Still in pve sometimes pick the arcane skill for an extra blast.
But on revenant I would only pick up thebherald heal in wvw zerg fights. Because in other situation it wouldn’t be that effective. So if lick up the herald in another situation to get for example. The might and protection stacks in fractals. You give uo a kit if your selfheal. And so you run around with a heal skill you are not happy with. And probably you have other skills you are not happy with. So a revenant is forced to pick up spells he doesn’t like in exchange to get access to skills he like. Yes they have more utilities skills equipped than others. But still I prefer to have an option there when it comes to such important skill options like your heal skill. And so on another class you activelly could chose those important skills that fit you the best. While in revenant you get forced to use skills you don’t want to just to get access to those you really want, and that can break a build easily.

Even one more heal skill and one more utility could nearly fix this.. For example when you pick up a legend for his currently utikitiz skills but the heal skill doesn’t fit you can change it. If you pick a elite where 2 utilities currently don’t fit you could at least swap out one.

And also if all skills are equally good. Swapping out a good skill for a good skill shouldn’t change the balance or?

This is the reason we get access to two Legends at the same time. Lets say you are doing content where you aren’t going to get hit much. This would obviously make Glints heal not so good ,but at the same time you want Glints other utilities for that content. The Regen from Glints heal will help you stay up a little longer then usual ,but when the time comes that you do need to heal you switch to your other Legend which will have a heal more appropriate for the situation. They realized that each Legend would lack the same customization that other classes get that’s why they allowed us to use two at once.

Adamantium.3682:

sebradle.7034:

You get major advantages for the skills being packaged though. Twice the number of utilities available. Not cool down based. Most of the utilities are stronger then equivalent utilities from other professions. It isn’t like it is difficult to switch out legends in dungeon either. The only one that would take time is glint.

Okay let’s not get carried away here…

Twice the number of skills, but many could be useless depending on your situation. Shiro in dungeons only has 1 usefull skill.

They may not be cooldown based but they certainly are limited by energy so effectively they have shared cooldowns.

Stronger than equivalent? I would like to see some basis for that statement, to me they all feel like pretty standard utilities. Some good, some bad, nothing overpowered.

This is why most professions get a 5 sec quickness buff with a 90+ sec cd and we get one that can be used multiple times over 90 sec for as long as we have the energy for it.

radioAspen.6829:

Mostly a pve perspective, but.

I think something that people are overlooking in this thread is that the m-word doesn’t dictate a single, static build that is optimal for every single situation, rather it dictates the build that is optimal for that specific situation, and as such it’s dynamic. Even if there are three obvious “meta” utility choices for this piece of content, only two of them may be “meta” for another with a new skill taking up the third slot, etc. If you look at actual build or dungeon guides, they give you all kinds of situational heal, utility, and even trait changes to make for specific reasons.

Furthermore, we can make informed decisions based on other factors. If I’m pugging with my PS warr, I may take more sustain or Fury generation than I otherwise would with an experienced party where I know other people are going to support me.

Revenant currently lacks this kind of finesse. You’re essentially choosing your entire kit on the basis of the one skill you may need. This gives Revenant fewer ways to approach any content, and adding options puts them on par with other classes, not above them.

I agree that other classes do function this way and most people look at it as them having versatility ,but I think that’s not really the case. Every class in this game has an over abundance of crappy Utilities. The Revenant on the other hand has fewer Utility options ,but they are much more well rounded. People think that Revs need the same options as other classes ,but I don’t see that as the case. Rev’s have better Utilities by far then the other classes and if the other classes had better Utilities they wouldn’t need to swap them out an an encounter to encounter basis. Most classes get 1 maybe 2 Elites in which they swap in an out. The Guardian only had 1 up until the removed Tomes. The Rev on the other hand has 5 good Elites every single one is good.The same can be said for Heal skills. 1-2 decent ones for every other class. The Rev has 5 good ones. So I do believe that if the Rev had that level of customization it would put them above the other classes and I also believe its not needed because the kit we have already is better then what other classes are getting.

Ensign.2189:

Griffith.7238:

So you are saying that using Frigid Blitz which crits anywhere from 5-8k is a DPS loss.

That is exactly what I am saying. There is nothing you can do that is superior to IO + auto-attack.

You can use Frigid Blitz for a very, very modest DPS improvement while in your non-Shiro stance, but while in Shiro stance using it is a substantial DPS loss over continuing to auto-attack.

I mean its not a matter of what you think its just pure math even if all 3 AA hits crit you are looking at 5-6 damage over 4 sec where as Fridge Blitz is 5-8k damage in 1 sec.

Rym.1469:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Have you tried Jade Winds in PvE? There is a lot or reason to use Shiro.
Not to mention Impossible Odds.

^This. Who said there is no need to run Shiro in PvE? Rev AA just received a buff that’s only going to improve the damage of IO + AA. Even if you only switched to Shiro to pop on IO and AA while your weapon skills were on CD it would be more DPS then running Jalis.

Well, I said.

There’s really no need for Shiro, unless you’re to run specific content where you need AoE stun. Basically, it’s just a quickness bot in my eyes when it comes go PvE. Costly quickness bot. If you have Guardian in your party or Chronomancer, Quickness shouldn’t be a big concern. Other Legends offer more for PvE.

Yes, Glint is nice for that might or fury. Unless you run with Ele and Phalanx Warrior. Then you can easily swap it.

Quickness bot is strong. AA is your largest damage over the duration of fight while it may not hit the hardest you get to use it more. Other then Glint facets none of our utilities really do damage so there is nothing left to spend your energy on but IO or EtD when it comes to damage and neither Jalis or Mallyx offer group support (well not needed group support anyway) so what other Legend beside Mallyx would be relevant?

Ensign.2189:

Kain Francois.4328:

What about Shiro + Mallyx? Is Embrace the Darkness not a good skill? It gives us 10% more of every attribute.

If you already have someone buffing you with might and fury Shiro + Mallyx is max DPS. Failing that, you run Shiro + Glint to self buff a ton.

Basically Shiro + Glint will give you the best offensive performance unless there’s a PS Warrior in your dungeon group, then run Shiro + Mallyx.

Griffith.7238:

^This. Who said there is no need to run Shiro in PvE? Rev AA just received a buff that’s only going to improve the damage of IO + AA. Even if you only switched to Shiro to pop on IO and AA while your weapon skills were on CD it would be more DPS then running Jalis.

What’s this ‘while your weapon skills are on cooldown’ crap? Nothing you can do can outperform auto-attacking with a sword and Impossible Odds up. You can use Unrelenting Assault against a single target while in your non-Shiro legend for some might stacks and modest DPS boost, but otherwise keep auto-attacking. Forget the other skills exist, they are for utility not damage.

So you are saying that using Frigid Blitz which crits anywhere from 5-8k is a DPS loss. K. Fridge Blitz and UA should both be used on cd for max DPS.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

Well I think it’s pretty much a given that you can get away with anything in most PvE settings Meta builds are designed for Speed Runs. Everyone plays for their own reason ,but I think most people play to play with other people thats kinda what MMOs are about and in that case you are doing not only yourself but you whole group a disservice by running some random build that doesn’t fit into the meta. PvP is exponentially more strict and if you want to excel Meta is really the only way to go. Most meta builds leave a few utilities optional ,but that doesn’t mean you should just put anything there is always gonna be a choice between like maybe 1-3 Utilities out of the 25 or so you have. Yes other classes have more options then Rev ,but saying some bs like “They have 40,000 combinations to choose from” is completely inaccurate. If you want to play your class at it’s highest level you have very few combinations to choose from.

The meta is the meta because some popular people decide that works better and in the case of pvp likely counters the previous meta. I don’t think random strangers being mad at you is a reason to run the strict meta. If you play for others approval you’re playing wrong. If you run with friends or have cool guildies they don’t care much what you run.

It’s not about playing for someones approval its about being effective. If you aren’t playing to win then yeah I suppose it doesn’t matter what you run (which is fine not everyone is competitive) ,but there’s a reason you don’t go AP Darius because its not effective. I could care less what other people in the match think of my performance ,but I do care about what I think of my own performance and I want to know win or lose that I did all I could. I don’t want to say to myself after that match “Oh we totally would’ve won that if I wasn’t using this completely kittened build”.

Conner.5803:

I honestly don’t expect glint to be that great for dungeons. I would use Shiro/Mallyx and sword + sword/axe.

Using Impossible Odds when on Shiro till you’re out of energy and then switching to Mallyx and use Embrace the Darkness. I’m not sure if just auto-attacking will still be your best option with all the sword buffs, but in the last BWE it was great.

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRAsc8nnvNeNS6JvJRVlHlsrykSYW5SJYssrkFNFht852tBW0INznSA-ThRBABXt/o8DP9D5dSAA4JAQp6PmpEkUARM0C-e

Glint will be one of if not the best damage Legend we have. 100% uptime on Fury for only -2 Upkeep means 100% crit chance 100% of the time. That is a lot of damage. Not to mention the 2 Facet Actives of Elements (decent AoE damage) and Strength (AoE 20 vuln stacks) both on a 15 sec cd.

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984:

I guess the swiftness is cool for out of combat. But almost every class besides mesmer has better party swiftness. Regen facet is pretty useless, might facet is pretty useless, protection facet is strong, just too bad it’s gonna drain too much energy. Unless pve all of a sudden needs aoe reveal I don’t really see a reason to use Glint unless it’s really niche stuff.

In what way to other classes have “better” swiftness and how is might facet “useless”. I’m not sure if you understand how little upkeep those facets are ,but they are far from useless in fact our swiftness Upkeep is better then other classes you literally toggle it on for -1 upkeep and its always there no other action required. None of our other facets are useless other then maybe the Regen one the might one will really help keep people capped.

Kidel.2057:

Have you tried Jade Winds in PvE? There is a lot or reason to use Shiro.
Not to mention Impossible Odds.

^This. Who said there is no need to run Shiro in PvE? Rev AA just received a buff that’s only going to improve the damage of IO + AA. Even if you only switched to Shiro to pop on IO and AA while your weapon skills were on CD it would be more DPS then running Jalis.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

Well I think it’s pretty much a given that you can get away with anything in most PvE settings Meta builds are designed for Speed Runs. Everyone plays for their own reason ,but I think most people play to play with other people thats kinda what MMOs are about and in that case you are doing not only yourself but you whole group a disservice by running some random build that doesn’t fit into the meta. PvP is exponentially more strict and if you want to excel Meta is really the only way to go. Most meta builds leave a few utilities optional ,but that doesn’t mean you should just put anything there is always gonna be a choice between like maybe 1-3 Utilities out of the 25 or so you have. Yes other classes have more options then Rev ,but saying some bs like “They have 40,000 combinations to choose from” is completely inaccurate. If you want to play your class at it’s highest level you have very few combinations to choose from.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Just on more utility would be enough… There are skills I never use, it’s really a waste of space. For example an Ele can have 13680 possible skill combinations (3 utilities out of a 20-skill pool, 4 heals, 3 elites), that’s without weapon combinations of course. The Herald has… 10 different combinations, woohoo! So if you think one more utility is too much asked for…

If we wanted to be all clones, why create different classes? Just drop a warrior with a hammer, a heal, an elite, no utilities, and there you go!

Edit: My bad, I compared a normal class with a specializaed one. The Ele wouldn’t get 13680 combinations, but rather 40480 combinations (24 utilities, 5 heals, 4 elites). Same goes for every other class, except the Revenant.

Yup 40480 combinations with only like maybe 3 viable ones .. gg

The only ones I’m going to really Upkeep much is Fury at -2 and the Regen one at -1. The actives for Elements (AoE damage with some condi application) and Strength (AoE Frontal Cone for 20 Vuln Stacks) are just too good not to use practically on cd which is 15 sec for both of them. Unless my party is struggling with might application I’m going for that 20 stacks of Vuln all day.

Donari.5237:

I’m a bit confused by the two auto-attacks. Does the game detect your range and pick which one to use? Or do you have to toggle skill 1 or skill 2 based on your moment to moment preference?

Well usually just #1 skill is you AA in this case your #1 skill is ranged auto and your #2 skill is melee auto. They aren’t built into the same skill they are separate.

I mean I think we just need to accept that certain Legend combinations just won’t be viable in PvP. I mean we can cleanse 1 condi on Legend Swap, 2 with Staff 4, 3 with Jalis Heal. Shiro/Glint just might not be viable without some from of condi clease ,but I think Jalis/Glint will be. The insane amount of defense and healing you would get from Jalis/Glint should more then make up for the fact that you can only cleanse a few condi’s here and there. There’s 20% damage reduction on Vengeful Hammers + Heal, 3 Condi Cleanse on Jalis Heal, basically a 1-100% Heal on Glint with Regen, 4k Heal on Shield 5 if you take it as well as a 25 sec cd passive Shield 5 if you take that. I think we are going to be just fine. We might just have to get past the fact that not every Legend Combination will be viable for everything ,but its no different for any other class they have to give up stuff they want and they have to use weapons they don’t want to use just to be viable. I don’t really want to use Staff because I prefer having 1 melee and 1 ranged and I like the sword too much not to use it ,but if I need that condi cleanse on Staff oh well.

Hammerguard.9834:

and no, I’m currently not liking Revenant’s design so much right now. The whole class and all it’s builds are practically already posted on metabattle with how simplistic it is. I like to get creative and try new things with every class I play and Revenant seems immune to such things.

“Don’t play it.”

I’d rather help the developers create a more fun and interesting class then hide and let it be released with clueless people like you backing it in it’s dull and incomplete form. I’m paying for a new class just as much as the next guy.

Yes all the people that like the current form of the Revenant are clueless. Yet you are the one that doesn’t enjoy the current classes that they have been working on for over 5+ years and still think in a few months the Revenant is going to magically transfrom into your perfect class. Yep we are the clueless ones.

GoldenTruth.2853:

I agree that protection is kind of a lackluster boon to give for an elite. However, giving stability or resistance for a 4 cost upkeep would probably be too overpowered.

I’d rather see them change the elite to a 6-7 cost upkeep and give it resistance. Revenants have fairly poor condition removal, especially if they want to maintain a pure damage spec. Giving them access to resistance would help make them more durable in all playtypes, but at the same time the higher upkeep cost would lower their dps output (especially because the rest of glint’s utilities also use upkeep). This may still be somewhat overpowered however since you could potentially boon share resistance for 8-9 upkeep.

Alternatively stability wouldn’t be a terrible choice either but the upkeep cost would also need to increase.

The current Upkeep cost is -5 not -4 so it completely stops your energy in it’s tracks. The Elite is also not JUST protection is an AoE knockdown as well which is pretty strong for a 45 sec cd.

Hammerguard.9834:

Regardless of the elite spec, the class should feel just as complete as the other 8 professions have for 3 years. Bringing in a new class with elite specs already in mind is no excuse for it to feel lifeless pre-elite spec.

If we were to turn a guardian into a revenant, we would throw away their virtues and give them stances. A meditation stance, a shouts stance, etc. Are guardians locked into just 3 meditations or just 3 shouts? No, they have options to customize their stances and the same privilege should be granted to revenants. I haven’t even watched the glint stuff yet but that shouldn’t matter. What we have now should be complete.

I didn’t say it was excusable just that it didn’t surprise me. That’s also a total bull kitten statement they had multiple years to create the other classes and they’ve probably been working on the Rev for well under a single year. It takes time and testing to achieve balance. There is nothing to say that the Revenant won’t be amazing absent its Elite Spec by the time HoT comes out they are still working on it. Clearly you don’t like the design of the Rev so you should just play something else or not at all.

Of course all this would require that they make PvE content that requires defense instead of everything dying in 10 sec. In the regard you don’t need protection or stability.

Dave.4639:

From a PvE point of view

That’s not the only mode of play. I can also see it being very useful in PvE a lot of bosses have known heavy damage phases or abilities and you can simple pop it to help your group get through those phases.

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

And all I’m trying to say is that if they give us too much customization we will be blatantly overpowered. They have to limit us in some form if we are going to be aloud to have 2 sets of active utilities in combat and weapon swap. The whole point is that we have two Legends in case one doesn’t provide something we can pick another that fills the first Legends weaknesses. If they give us condi removal, stun breaks, gap closers, gap creators, etc. on every Legend we would never need to swap except for energy and we would be completely broken in an overpowered way.

I guess the difference is I don’t see extra utilties as a buff necessarily. They would be giving us choice, not more powerful skills than we have now. It would allow us to always have 3 useful utilities in our bar, not 1 good one and 2 useless ones for what we’re doing (Shiro in Dungeons).

I mean I see where you are coming from in that regard ,but that’s why we have Legend Swap and other then Glint energy restrictions don’t really allow us to use all 3 utilities in quick succession. I mean I definitely agree with your point earlier that the class doesn’t seem complete with the absence of its Elite Spec ,but at the same time I feel its not surprising consider the Rev was designed with the knowledge that it would get an Elite Spec the rest of the classes weren’t.

Rygg.6237:

Kidel.2057:

With all the Fury we get from Glint we can finally take that condi cleanse on legendswap from Invocation. Is it going to be enough? 1 condition every 10 seconds.

Depends on what game mode we’re talking about.

PvE: The traitlines of choice will be Devastation 3-1-3, Invocation 1-1-2 (giving acces to the Cleansing Channel), Herald 3-2-1, Weapons of Choice will be Sword+Sword: AA will be the top damage dealing for Revenant, UA is free 7 might it has a block which is nice, Staff: Good burst damage with an evade, an extra heal that is a blast finisher with decent CD, a daze for interrupts and blinds+block. Legends of choice depend on group situation, most personal DPS: Shiro/Glint for impossible odds uptime increasing AA of Sword, Jade Winds for CC, Glint it’s just a must thanks to facet of Strength and Darkness alone. Most party utility: Ventari/Glint. In Ventari we have projectile destruction, tons of healing bursts and a heal that removes 3 condis. If you still need more condi cleanse in PvE (which IMO isn’t needed) you can sacrifice personal DPS and switch out Invocation for Salvation for the sake of clenase on dodge and better burst healing, Armor will be assassin’s with zerker trinkets and scholar runes and power+precision food.

WvW: Depends on the whole frontline/backline, but again my bet goes to Either Jalis+Ventari, Ventari+Glint or Jalis+Glint, weapons stay the same, Soldier instead of Assassin’s and traits will more than likely be Salvation/Retribution, Devastation and Herald, I don’t like WvW a lot because I do not enjoy zerg fights and roaming is quite slow, I might be wrong.

PvP: Depends on role, as a far pont assaulter/roamer, I think Marauder with the same weapons as PvE with Devastation, Corruption and Invocation/Herald is more viable now with the changes done to traits and skills on Swords and Staff, Legends could be a though pick.

A sort of hybrid bunker running herald could be strong too in team fights, I really don’t see Shield being useful at all IMO, but it would make mandatory to run Jalis or Ventari for condition cleanse or even Malyx (resistance on LDS proc + Facet of Nature) if running Glint, maybe with Hoelbrak runes and sigil of generosity/energy in staff you can have some sort of condi management if you run Shiro, but I see it mandatory to have another legend as option to condi cleanse paired with Glint to make Herald viable for sPvP .

My bet is that the strongest Glint Spec will Run Devastation, Corruption, Herald with Celestial Amulet, Hoelbrak runes, Mace/Axe+Staff, Battle+Intelligence on MH and Energy+Generosity OH, 2 blast finishers, facet of strength and darkness give you nice might uptime, you have fury uptime too thanks to facet of darkness and sigil proc+legendswap+resistance for condition management.

Pretty sure Sword/Axe would be optimal for DPS. Frigid Blitz hits incredibly hard and I can’t see it being anything but a DPS increase to use it.

Kain Francois.4328:

What about Shiro + Mallyx? Is Embrace the Darkness not a good skill? It gives us 10% more of every attribute.

Assuming you are buffed with 25 stacks of Might, that is +322 Power and +104 Ferocity, for around +18% damage, with a bonus +9% critical chance.

It is very good. It’s just gonna be a close call between Glint and Mallyx as to which one is optimal and it might even be so close that either would work. As far as just damage goes I’m not sure which one comes out on top. Mallyx has the 10% increase to every attribute where as Glint has 100% Uptime on Fury which will easily put you at constant 100% chance to crit and 2 damage oriented utilities one that applies 20 stacks of vuln and another that does decent AoE damage. I think Glint is the best choice because even if Mallyx comes out a little ahead on damage Glint has way more Support and general Utility.

And all I’m trying to say is that if they give us too much customization we will be blatantly overpowered. They have to limit us in some form if we are going to be aloud to have 2 sets of active utilities in combat and weapon swap. The whole point is that we have two Legends in case one doesn’t provide something we can pick another that fills the first Legends weaknesses. If they give us condi removal, stun breaks, gap closers, gap creators, etc. on every Legend we would never need to swap except for energy and we would be completely broken in an overpowered way.

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

No I think you’re missing the point. That is the trade-off what other class gets 2 sets of utilities accessible in combat? You don’t get that kinda benefit without drawbacks. What would be the point of Legends if we could just swap all our kitten out anyway. You’re asking for each Legend to have more utilities to choose from which in the end would be pointless because there would be 3 that are optimal and the same 3 would get chosen. It is no different then any other class.

It sounds as if you’re suggesting that while other professions may have preferred “optimal” utilities, they don’t swap out their utility skills according the situation. In my experience this is simply not true and Revenant does not have that option.

Not sure where you got the number 6 from ,but there are 10 total combinations of Legends you can use.

Yes Revs can its called swapping out for a different Legend.

Nitross.6987:

Zev.3407:

Glad your taking our feedback seriously9even if you never once responded to people feeling like a lack of utility customization)

Glad to see I’m not the only one who feels like this.

But considering this:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

It seems to be by design that the Revenant’s choices are limited to your selection of Legendary stances. It was even more evident when Revenant had no weapon swap.

But, considering how the stances have synergy with specific weapons and trait lines, it feels like the profession has very little choice within the builds you can make.

That’s why I still feel every stance should have 4 utilities. This could let you include a stun breaker and/or condi clear in each stance – doesn’t have to be very good ones – so you at least have the option to equip one.

This would be in line with how other skill types are done for other professions; they have 4 shouts or 4 signets, and so on. And for each type, one of them has some defensive use.

Or maybe I just need to play more with the profession to figure out how it CAN be personalized within it’s current limits? I don’t know for sure. What do you guys think?

There is still a lot of customization to be had within the Revenant’s kit. Weapons are not at all tied to Legends. All of the weapons were announced with a particular Legend ,but it doesn’t mean that that weapon has to be used with that Legend ex. Hammer was announced with Jalis ,but Hammer with Shiro is really strong. Aside from that there are still plenty of combinations between which two weapon sets and which two Legends you can run. Most classes only give the illusion of variety when in reality there are very few Healing, Utility, and Elite skills to choose from that are actually viable or even useful.

Sylent.3165:

Ok I am first off sorry if this has been answered already I couldn’t find it, or I did but maybe didn’t understand the wording.

1. So for upkeep, say I want to keep Facet of Elements going for swiftness while I run around. If I am in combat only will my energy go up? Or can I keep this going at all times then basically if I’m not using other skills?

2. Everything with glint is upkeep. Are these facets passive effects constantly going and draining my energy super fast?

So for example if I switch to Glint, nothing is currently active correct? I would need to manually click say Facet of Elements to get the swiftness, then click it again to use the active and put it on cooldown right?

Ok so Facet of Elements has a -1 Upkeep cost by default we have a +5 Energy Regen this means that with just Facet of Elements up you will be at +4 and still regenerate energy regardless of being in combat or out of combat (to my knowledge we still regenerate energy out of combat it just caps at 50) so essentially you could keep this up infinitely as long as its the only Upkeep you are using. In fact out of all of Glints Upkeeps not a single one will cause you to lose energy on its own only the Elite will put you at -5 which means you don’t gain or lose the rest you will continue to gain.

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

No I think you’re missing the point. That is the trade-off what other class gets 2 sets of utilities accessible in combat? You don’t get that kinda benefit without drawbacks. What would be the point of Legends if we could just swap all our kitten out anyway. You’re asking for each Legend to have more utilities to choose from which in the end would be pointless because there would be 3 that are optimal and the same 3 would get chosen. It is no different then any other class.

Kidel.2057:

Given that facet of nature and traits are on both builds, which legend is batter to pair with shiro in your opinion?

3 game modes, not only pvp (where I prefer mallyx).

Discuss, shoro/jalis or shiro/glint

I’m thinking Shiro/Glint will have the edge on damage with the boon application, damage oriented facet actives, and traits like 2% damage bonus per boon. I think Shiro/Jalis will be a pretty sick Damage/Tank hybrid with Condi Cleanse, Rite of the Great Dwarf, and the buffs to Soothing Stone and Vengeful Hammers.

I’m gonna be giving Shiro/Glint a shot for pretty much everything ,but I think Shiro/Jalis might be pretty beast in PvP. You’ll have great 1v1 with Shiro and can then swap over to Jalis for larger fights where Vengeful Hammers might be pretty op depending on the icd on the heal plus condi cleanse, stability, and 50% damage reduction elite. It should be pretty strong for fighting on point.’

Now that I think about I’d say Glint/Jalis might be a good choice as well for PvP depending on if you are willing to give up IO and Jade Winds or not.

Zev.3407:

ya i was really hoping we’d see it happen in the poi . . but nope

It did happen in the POI. Go back and watch towards the end when he is fighting the Blue Lord over by Svanir. Don’t get to see how much cc he got hit with though ,but it did break the bar.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Depending on how much damage the Sword auto attack is capable of doing with modifiers from traits and group support, i feel this might be a tad bit too strong and could warrant having maybe a -6 or -7 upkeep instead.

Theoretically, with just a warrior in group you have the potential to have 25 stacks of might permanently with near 100% upkeep on fury for the whole group (definitely 100% fury upkeep for the Revenant dependant on traits).

On top of all the other boons the other party members are throwing out, as well as the permanent protection from the Revenant.

I don’t think this is going to be as viable as you think it is … just because you are taking 33% reduced damage doesn’t mean you aren’t taking damage. You WILL have to spend energy at some point during a fight in PvP especially and by just auto attacking you are going to be taking so much avoidable damage thanks to the new evade frames on UA, Hammer 3, and Staff 5. This was my plan as well as soon as I saw it pool to 100 energy and then pop Glint ult ,but I planned to continue using weapon skills and other facet actives until I needed more energy I think that is a much more viable strategy rather then just sitting in this all day and using AA.

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Shockwave.1230:

Removing Mesmer, Thief, and Engi stealth defenses every 20 seconds seems like a hard counter. This alone is an issue since these cool-downs for these professions is at least twice that. The instant cast means this is only avoidable with blinks, which means you always have to have a blink ready or you’ll be revealed. Ranger, engineer, and dragon hunter have tradeoffs of sacrificing more powerful choices for this hard counter.

Revenant having this baked in combined with the reality that teams may end up running two Heralds due to the versatility of stance options means this skill alone on a team with two Revenants could remove stealth from the meta entirely if Dragon stance and two other stances stack too well in a game mode.

In my opinion the balance team as a whole needs to look at this skill not just the individuals working on the Revenant, because if stealth is ever crippled the main defensive tools for two professions are hard countered. This would require giving different crutches to Mesmer and Thief lest risking their viability.

Also, a 20 second cool down stun break, no traits even necessary? Does anything have a stun break under 30 seconds base? And all that utility? Gaze of Darkness is the most powerful early iteration skill I’ve seen in a while.

And? As of last weekend Rev was the weakest class in the game in pretty much every category it could use a little strength while it settles in to its rightful place among all the other classes.

You know they could literally blow us away in 2 weeks with this new Group Content. Going 5 zerkers might not be optimal for that stuff. I know we all have our doubts but give them a chance.

Hammerguard.9834:

Griffith.7238:

Hammerguard.9834:

Recursivision.2367:

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

That’s exactly the probelm. The build just makes itself. I can never hope to take Jalis or Ventari and expect to put out nearly as much DPS. I am forced into something and that’s the death of this class for me. Hopefully Druid won’t be as brain dead.

Nope it will be cause just like every other class in this game and every class in every MMO on the market there is an optimal build for w/e content you are doing and its only one link away (metabattle.com). Perhaps you should try League of Legends were build diversity goes a long way.

Unlike the Revenant every other profession has multiple useful builds for different aspects of the game. Yes, there is a meta but that doesn’t mean there are 2 or 3 other builds that can compete. In the case of Revenant, there will only be a meta build because everything about the class is so overly defined. There is no secret combination that can produce similar results. It’s all out there for the player to simply use rather than create. This will probably be the most boring class I’ve ever play.

This is not true at all. I’ve already got multiple builds in mind for various types of content. Sword/Axe/Staff, Sword/Axe/Hammer, Sword/Sword/Staff, Sword/Sword/Hammer, Glint/Jalis, Glint/Shiro. Multiple combinations of those. Sure only one will be optimal ,but I’m willing to bet many of them will be viable.

The only aspect in which your logic makes sense is when it comes to Glint. I think Glint is so strong that you would literally be kicking yourself in the face for not using her. Her kit/traits are just insane. 400 toughness when using IO or have enemies revive your downed allies for you, 25% endur regen while using an upkeep, Stun Break yourself and all allies, 2% damage increase per boon with Facet of Nature 10% damage increase + 5 boons on 25sec cd in any Legend. Not to mention all her amazing Facet’s actives that have already been outlined multiple times. Glint is just sooo strong.

Zafken.1708:

If you have another rev using the glint elite, its quite a bit of time.

I meant as an individual ,but yes with allies giving you Protection.

Zafken.1708:

So do the new vengeful hammers stack with protection? If so I think that might want to be looked at, because with that combo a rev can have 53% dmg reduction for quite a bit of time.

That’s a really good question LOL. Though I wouldn’t say its for “quite” a bit of time Jalis doesn’t have access to Protection and you could only get it through Facet of Nature for like 5 seconds if using Glint.

Hammerguard.9834:

Recursivision.2367:

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

That’s exactly the probelm. The build just makes itself. I can never hope to take Jalis or Ventari and expect to put out nearly as much DPS. I am forced into something and that’s the death of this class for me. Hopefully Druid won’t be as brain dead.

Nope it will be cause just like every other class in this game and every class in every MMO on the market there is an optimal build for w/e content you are doing and its only one link away (metabattle.com). Perhaps you should try League of Legends were build diversity goes a long way.

Honestly something that needs to be noticed here is that Glint is SO freaking good that unless forced out of the Legend to heal you really won’t need to switch often. You won’t be burning through energy all that quick due to the fact that all skills are Upkeep none of which are really necessary to keep up the whole time. You get a Stun Break, Blind, Regen, Protection, Swiftness, Aoe Knockdown, The largest heal of all the Rev heals, Reveal. Throw on the shield to compliment all that and Legend Swapping will be a thing of the past.

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

Because this is the design. This is both the downside and the advantage at the same time. This is what makes Revs so versatile it allows them to fill multiple roles at once: Support/Damage , Support/Condi, Damage/Tank, Tank/Condi, Damage/Condi hybrid. If you aren’t willing to sacrifice some customization for the added benefit of being versatile this class isn’t for you.

xarallei.4279:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Something would be great ahah
At least to make powerbuilds viable on pve.

There is Jalis, Ventari, and Staff.

All of which are not optimal for max dps. I don’t think there is a single other class that has to sacrifice damage for a condi cleanse. Unlike other classes, Rev doesn’t have the ability to freely choose its heals and utilities. You are stuck with an entire legend and all of its utilities, whether you want them or not.

The problem is that we are already teetering on the edge of being completely overpowered. I mean no other class can cast a 5 man 3 sec stun essentially every 10 sec. The Rev kit and design is going to be incredibly hard to balance so if they give us too much condi cleanse or even a little more then we have now we will literally be a jack of all trades. Currently that is the only thing the class doesn’t have in abundance we have Defense, Offense, Support, and some of the best Boon Application of any class in the game thanks to Glint.

Kidel.2057:

Pugs are not always what you may want.

Some self condi cleanse should be viable even without Jalis.
I hardly imagine myself doing some fractals without self cleanse.

Yeah griffith, but this means that shiro+glint is not a viable combination unless you equip staff just for cleanse, reducing your dps a lot compared to sword, or giving up to ranged option.

I get that condis are revenant’s weak point, but we should at least be able to use powerbuilds without exploding for burninf in CoF.

I mean I agree ,but it won’t surprise me one bit if that’s the choice we have to make. Look at Guardians they’ve had to play this game without a good/fun ranged option since launch scepter is literal crap.

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Something would be great ahah
At least to make powerbuilds viable on pve.

There is Jalis, Ventari, and Staff. It’s not like we don’t have it you just want it on the Legends and Weapons you want to use which is understandable ,but not realistic every single class has this problem where you can’t have your cake and eat it too.