Guild Wars 2

Shimond.2478:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game:

Does that answer your question? the clue is even in the name of the genre of game, if you want a single player game, look for one, buy it, install it. When on earth did this simple and honestly with no offence intended “asinine” point become an issue?

But clearly you’re just taking the straw man route and making up ridiculous scenario’s where my statement is moot, that’s fine, I don’t expect anything less from here.

Fact is, time gating is one answer that to many, feels lazy and incredibly short sighted, but come on… what were you expecting?

making daily’s so inherently key to obtaining BIS gear, was a stupid move, nothing more to add to that, it was just stupid. Making them a huge time gate, was even more stupid, I left WoW for many reasons and one was the dictating of how often I could participate in certain content in a week, time gating isn’t fun and I ran from it to here, and now it’s yet another reason why I don’t recommend this game to anyone. but that’s just my opinion.

Fair enough, lets put this back in the context of the OP.

Let’s say that there was no daily system. I don’t see how the OP would be doing regular fractal runs or progressing through the levels there for it to even matter what their AR is (where all this “BIS gear” even matters in this game). This is not someone that plays casually, this is someone that barely plays. And they’re complaining about things in the game they likely wouldn’t be accessing regardless. They might as well whine about legendary acquisition next.

What’s wrong… with adding ascended gear into the game as if it WAS exotic and AS a new tier, why jump through all these hoops? why funnel players to certain areas or exclude certain guilds

I know it’s hard to understand for some, but there’s no reason why someone with less time, shouldn’t be given every helping hand towards gearing up, because it adds to the feeling of completion of said character, they’ve already moved the goalposts with ascended and done a ham fisted job of implementing them…

Nothing needs to take months, nothing needs to exclude or be highly anti-alt and nothing needs to be done save for to work on the repeatable lower level content and make it more stimulating, something that’s not exactly easy, but a better option than the wasted resources that have gone into this new direction and systems. They’re taking the short-cuts, and it will bite them on the rear sooner or later because the same issues still remain for those players that are affected, only now they’re behind time gates… these new daily’s only seem to tell me how I should spend my time, instead of me deciding it, and I don’t appreciate that, while I’m working on gear I want variety and options, not a new currency grind.

Vorch.2985:

I don’t have a problem with time gating.

I have a problem with statistical advantages behind time gates.

It’s a time gate, with a side of grind… which excludes some guilds apparently… nothing about any of it seems well thought out.

Shimond.2478:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Shimond.2478:

Not every single part of the game is going to be fully available to every single player.

That’s not really the game’s fault. It’s impossible to ‘fix’ this ‘problem’

That’s a terribly bleak way of looking at it, but I expect no less from this forum.

Really? What do fractals or dungeons have to offer the person who can’t stand grouping with others? Should that person be on here demanding single player dungeons?

I’m sure some do, but really, should Anet be listening to them? The fact is every kind of player will not be able to play/enjoy every part of the game. It’s impossible.

For a person like the OP who only gets to play one week a month, doing a daily every day is completely off the table. What’s the fix? Just require 7 a month? Is that enough for the OP? Why should it even be changed when plenty of people DO play the game every single day?

Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game:

Does that answer your question? the clue is even in the name of the genre of game, if you want a single player game, look for one, buy it, install it. When on earth did this simple and honestly with no offence intended “asinine” point become an issue?

But clearly you’re just taking the straw man route and making up ridiculous scenario’s where my statement is moot, that’s fine, I don’t expect anything less from here.

Fact is, time gating is one answer that to many, feels lazy and incredibly short sighted, but come on… what were you expecting?

making daily’s so inherently key to obtaining BIS gear, was a stupid move, nothing more to add to that, it was just stupid. Making them a huge time gate, was even more stupid, I left WoW for many reasons and one was the dictating of how often I could participate in certain content in a week, time gating isn’t fun and I ran from it to here, and now it’s yet another reason why I don’t recommend this game to anyone. but that’s just my opinion.

Fidjit.4162:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Please don’t take offense to this, but we all know by now that these kinds of threads are not going to go anywhere, get no real red feedback and generally are just going to attract differing opinions which clash.

Yep. Been tons of these threads since launch. Basically, some people like to just play for fun and others like the illusion of progression. There are different MMOs out there to satisfy both groups. We can’t peacefully coexist. The end.

Had to fix that, both groups cannot coexist without major design changes by game developers. And those changes can’t be made until we shove a boot up the publishers rears and tell them to get back in their box and stop directing the games in the way that they seem to be.

Shimond.2478:

Not every single part of the game is going to be fully available to every single player.

That’s not really the game’s fault. It’s impossible to ‘fix’ this ‘problem’

That’s a terribly bleak way of looking at it, but I expect no less from this forum.

Please don’t take offense to this, but we all know by now that these kinds of threads are not going to go anywhere, get no real red feedback and generally are just going to attract differing opinions which clash.

Katai.6240:

Here’s what it comes down to: I like having something to do.

Dailies give me something to do in small pockets of time. Unlike some people, I don’t have hour blocks of free time to do dungeons or fractals. You can’t do stuff like that in 10 to 15 minute chunks. Dailies? I can do them, and have been doing them since the game launched. Buffed daily rewards? Awesome. No one complained about dailies until they got better rewards.

When I can do Dungeons, or Fractals, or WvW, I do them. But that’s not the bulk of my gameplay. A big chunk of it is going through the personal story lines on each of my characters, and completing the daily before the day ends. Basically it comes down to 1) Play storyline chapter or do some Events for a few minutes 2) Stop to take care of chores, catch up on work, or make some social obligation 3) Come back and play for a few minutes before the next thing on my list.

I’m already at a disadvantage because I can’t dedicate 16 hours a day to playing. When the game launched, people already had level 80 gear and hundreds of gold while I was level 20. I couldn’t even take advantage of the silly precursor drop rates back then because I simply wasn’t high enough level.

I continue to be at a disadvantage because I can only run fractals maybe once a week. People have been using it for weeks to gain silly amounts of gold, as well as filling up their banks with ascended rings that they don’t actually want. Now I can actually access some of that gear, and now someone like me who plays everyday can actually keep up with someone who plays every hour.

Those are all totally valid points, and thank you for actually bringing them up, but there has to be better solutions to all of those problems than daily quest gating rubbish… I do however fully understand your frustrations and concerns and in some ways share them, I just wish players would stop with the friggin hyperbolic slurring of other players, so at least some decent discussion can be made and would hope that in future you actually give this kind of detailed opinion and feedback, instead of just stating “I like it! don’t change it!” which doesn’t really give much justification at all does it?

Christopher.5813:

Gohlar.3671:

Microtransactions are killing games in general. Selling content as dlc is fine. Basing an economy around microtransactions is always a mess and kills the game. GW2 is no exception.

I don’t agree at all. I think that the exact opposite is true in fact.

I would much rather spend money on micro transactions in the cash store vs. a paid subscription model. The problem is that there is nothing compelling whatsoever in the gem store besides bag and bank slots. It’s almost criminal that the same 3 ugly sets of armor are all we have to buy from them.

As a father of three who frequently travels internationally for work, I’m never going to farm up a legendary weapon. That kind of time investment is for halfhearted college students or teenagers working part time at Hot Topic. I’d gladly drop cash on something that looks as nice from the gem store, but Anet doesn’t seem to want the money.

An example of a non intrusive, in my honest opinion BRILLIANT Cash shop that has gotten at LEAST the equivalent of 4 to 5 times the amount of cash from me as this game has, which is the price of the game itself.

League of Legends.

champions can be earned, and quite easily with many of the easiest champs being low ip cost (non rmt currency) and it’s really just skins that cost you real cash and with the exception of one or two minor issues there’s no actual difference in the effectiveness of the character with skins or not.

Guild Wars 2, completely fails as a Cash shop, and with such a successful system in place, instead opts to go for the types of items that players have complained about in other games, since their creation…

You’re right, the minute they hired someone from NEXON they clearly DIDN’T want our money.

lol, when your players call “faked screenshot” after looking at it once, you know something has gone horribly awry…. Better get my wallet out to join a guild on a non dead server or else…

Nah, I see literally no reason to ever return to this game, it’s like the dev’s been captured by body snatchers or are being held at gunpoint somewhere in a dingy bunker somewhere and forced to sign papers which allow these changes… either that or full frontal lobotomies have been introduced as a new part of the company’s NDA policy with their partners… these have no business having stats… none of them do and the further into this horrible abyss of ascended sillyness they go, the more it becomes apparent.

Flamenco.3894:

I fail to see how that joke is humorous or bringing out a valid point.

Explaining jokes, usually doesn’t help them get a laugh, but if you can’t detect the sarcasm in that joke, well… maybe we do need a sarcasm font :P

if making fluff for the CS was a prio over other things, well… yeah..

“does not bode well”

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Katai.6240:

Okay, I’ll go ahead and say it.

I like the time sinks and dailies! I would prefer it you don’t change things I like to do just because you don’t want to do them.

Hypocrite much?

So everyone should be forced to do what you like because you don’t want them to change it for those that don’t like it? Perfect logic there….

Key-word being compromise

This system doesn’t feel like a compromise, and Katai didn’t actually give any coherent reasons why they like the current system, invalid feedback until they do as it might just be trolling.

Flamenco.3894:

Mercucial.6759:

Flamenco.3894:

Mercucial.6759:

Flamenco.3894:

The increase of the amount of accounts is not synonym to this game being destined to succeed.
The choices Anet is going to make for the coming months will weigh heavy in determining the game’s ultimate conclusion.

Currently the game faces some detrimental gameplay. The classes are not properly balanced for sPvP and the amount of options for effective way of play for certain class es are severely limited. This leaves out an incredible amount of gameplay out of the game and this is AFTER 6 months from release. This is unacceptable for a popular and highly-populated game like GW2.
It will have negative consequences seeing how Anet has been way too slow fixing some game-breaking problems. People already have lost trust in the company.

The only place you really see this kind of talk is the forum. After roughly 300 hours in game I can honestly say I’ve maybe seen people talk like this maybe once or twice, which leads me to believe that most people who are playing the game are enjoying it. And I like how you say 6 months after release as if that’s a long time for an MMO. This game has far more content and updates than most MMOs do six months after release.

How important were those content and general updates compared to sPvP balance, which still is not done properly and class balancing in both PvE and PvP. Six months is simply a little too long for these game-defining aspects.

It’s really not. Perhaps you don’t realize how hard it is balance content like that. It took YEARS for WoW to get class balance even remotely right, and even now there’s still issues with it. There are very FEW games where true “balance” exists, it’s just not something that is a quick process…..ever.

You would think that with this set amount of skills the balancing would be done way better.
How great is it, for someone, who chooses a specific class to find out later that he/she can only run 1 or 2 effective builds in sPvP or PvE at all times while certain classes have much more diversity. Many traits are simply not appropriate for any effective way to play.
The fact that there barely has been any significant class balance the past half year, despite these striking differences and other less important but big updates, shows that Anet has failed to properly prioritize their efforts.

Wait!? you mean that all those development hours on quaggan backpacks were a waste of time!!!? dear god! are you mad!

/joke

I don’t like the hyperbole as this game is FAR from doomed and claiming such is RIDICULOUS, however nor do I like the sweeping generalizations…

I’ve logged on to my EU server which i’m stuck on, and found literally no one in Lions Arch. This has happened quite a few times, until I stopped logging in. Am I insane? and yes I’ve guested to other servers, and found marginal activity… :/ the game is dying in SOME areas and thriving in others… what game isn’t?

Dante.1508:

Revolution.6301:

Jrunyon.3012:

They have already said they are going to be adding new ways to obtain them.

How about you just be patient, and maybe even realize that ascended stuff isn’t the end game, its an optional path to take in gearing up your character.

Stop it with this argument!

Getting stats isn’t opotional skins are!

This is illogical, unvalid and unsound.

@op

You’ve actually made a post that is calm, clear and focused.
I agree with you 100% and yes this is what my problem is too. You can’t call Gw2 an improvment over the original Guild Wars why? Since it breaks so many things Guild Wars did right. Such as: Gear grind, skins, cosmemtics in general, challenging content.

^This in my opinion, this game went backwards from their great original, some didn’t like the original well they had others to play, but A lot loved the original game and now we have this “optional” version of treadmill grind or move on, great options..

Ascended should have been implemented into the game the same way as the rest the hardcore minority had other games they could have played hardcore..

Don’t blame the changes on the “hardcore” players, they wanted a challenge (a SKILL challenge) that didn’t involve cheese mechanics, no one was asking for the treadmill of time gated daily’s… that would have been moronic.

First of all, chill…

From what you’ve stated, you’re playing 2 pc’s with 2 inputs, and are not using key broadcasting/cloning, it’s POSSIBLE to a limited degree that you can play the game this way, you’d be chewed to pieces in any really challenging combat, PVP, WPVP or dungeons for the most part to the point where people would probably be negative towards you, but if you’re doing this for a bit of fun or to just farm some DE trash, i’m sure it will do the trick. Having said that, many people frown upon the idea of multiboxing due to how it’s in many games considered a player forced in “pay to win” factor. And if you were to inadvertently do something which seemed “iffy” then they could mistake you for a bot or for using third party software, please do be careful.

darkace.8925:

@ Revolution. That’s actually fairly clever of you. You claim the developers said something they never did. At best, you misinterpreted what they actually said. At worst, and most probably, you’re just trolling.

Either way, you’re challenged to provide proof. And your response is to drop an hour and fifty minutes worth of video in hopes that we’ll waste our time combing through them looking for something that doesn’t even exist. No. That’s not proof. If the proof is in any of those videos (it’s not), then it’s up to you to tell us when. So as of now, I’m still waiting for you to provide proof.

Are you actually complaining about the fact that he misinterpreted

“We don’t want you to grind, grinding is not fun”

as

“We don’t want you to grind, We’re going to make grinding not fun, but still include methods that take ridiculous amounts of repetition”

Cos, whilst you can claim he was naive and believed in the developer, I don’t honestly think that’s a reason to consider him a bad person or anything…lol

Developer releases video trailer that “inadvertently” misleads a lot of players, most leave shortly thereafter and those that choose to remain to state their case and issues are attacked by the remaining members who use the term “self entitlement” to slur…

No one is claiming that they “must have the gear or they’ll quit omgzorz”, they’re claiming that it takes too long and is BORING in every way to get the gear… the process is not enjoyable… and not bothering with said gear is getting them to the point where they feel that the already lacking gameplay isn’t sustaining them when they stop and look at the alternatives to keep them busy, if the game didn’t lack in other areas then gear wouldn’t be that much of an issue and if this game was mostly about skins and aesthetics and not stats as they seemed to agree with in all their comments while in beta, then this wouldn’t be an issue.

here’s the simplest point, there was, and still remains no reason why ascended needed the extra stats. none. nada, zilch, zip, zero.

Stop immediately thinking, this guy is just another (cringes at the stupidy of this spammed term) “self entitled” who can’t just enjoy the game for what it is, merely because he has a differing opinion to you, if any changes to the game are brought about by his issues how do they detract from your gameplay?

And that’s what it boils down to, why are people arguing about this? someone claims that daily quests for laurels are a shoddy way of obtaining gear and take too long, why is it so important to you that it stays the same? what possible negative impact does it have on your gameplay? why even post about it, especially with the zeal you’ve shown, which is enough to get snarky and into mini flame wars… what have you got to gain from it? what do you lose by conceding that maybe his issue has weight?

If and it’s a big if you somehow had your gameplay diminished by something being made easy, for example LFR gear diminished normal tier raiding in WoW to the point of “why bother” then yes, that’s fine, but these are daily friggin quests… jesus… I’d have no issue with them changing because they don’t affect me negatively in any way… seems dodgy to me…

TooBz.3065:

Sinoran.9140:

Assuming Ascended is ~8% stronger than exotics.

~272 total stat increase over full exotics with full ascended in all slots (weapon, armor, trinkets) and assuming each one is filled with a +5 stat infusion, spread over atleast 3 stats. primary stat gains a whole 90 stat points, both secondaries 61 stat points. Then +60 from having every single +5 infusion.

Less than 15 trait points worth of stats.

If you’re in partial ascended gear then the already small gap is even smaller. The enemy isn’t always decked out in ascended.

A few stat points do not decide fights in this game.

I believe they’re adding a way for WvW players to gain ascended soon.

Ascended is optional.

I’m sorry, I totally did not understand that. Can you please explain how did 272 stat points become 15? I can get 15 power from infusions alone?

Here is my reasoning

If I take a zerker warrior in exotics he has an effective power of 4162.38.
(http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.cg.67|k00.k00.0.0.u000|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e)

If I switch him to ascended he has an effective power of 4444.24
(http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|k00.k00.0.0.u000|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e)

Or if you prefer power numbers. 2234 Power, 1895 precision, and 103% critical damage
becomes 2300, 1928, and 111% respectively. .

Using the formula damage = power*skill coefficient*weapon damage / armor
(assuming 1.0 skill, 1000 weapon damage, and 2600 armor in each case) (from the wiki)

The exotic warrior will do 860 points of damage per strike (base). 50.62% of the time he will crit for 2176 giving a average damage / strike of 1527

The ascended warrior will do 884 base damage. 52.19 % of the time he will crit for 2307. Giving an average damage/ strike of 1626.

So the ascended warrior will do 6.5% more damage per hit.

edit: oops, my bad, didn’t account for something :P my bad

6.5% per hit is a lot… yet it’s being dismissed…

Red Falcon.8257:

Jemmi.6058:

I agree and disagree.

I do not think that the Trinity is needed in this game.

However, I do like the Trinity. My preferred class is healer. I like keeping my team alive, making hard judgement calls (i.e. sacrifice the almost dead caster to make sure the tank survives or w/e) and healing people randomly out in the world. It provides a feeling of need/value/importance that I do not get anymore. I always feel expendable, and that I could easily not be there and it’d make no difference.

Try a full support Guardian and you’ll have that feeling back.
I played my Guard full support and it heals for bazillions while providing protection to everyone and making a team almost invincible just like old school healers.

Actually I agree with this, the buffs added up with a coherent team from a buff orientated guardian are amazing, once you realize that the classes whilst somewhat limited aren’t as horribly limited as people make out, there’s a definite quality in how they interact.

Phoenix.3416:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Phoenix.3416:

You misread what I put, some classes are just BETTER at tanking than others. Since Armour is fixed to classes it gives some classes a weakness when tanking, although they might be great tanks they wont be as effective as a heavy armour class with the same skills since heavy can take more hits.

Armour should be made free between the classes with a speed/regen buff for lighter and higher health but slower for the tankier armours.

Everybody would just pick plate/heavy armor, then.

I just think there still should be a frontline, midline, and backline casters setup like GW1 had.

I liked that a lot.

The thought that somebody in cloth/light armor should be expected to tank/take hits as much as a heavy/plate wearer is a bit unrealistic, IMO.

but that’s not true, thieves would probably move to light armour and focus on speed and dodging, mesmers don’t need to be tanky either so could do the same. depending on the players skills you could have warriors in light and elementalists in heavy

its all about what the benefit of lighter is, if you say had a slight faster cool down on skills most players who want to deal damage would go for lighter, while players who are melee focused or likely to take hits like d/d ele would go heavy at the cost of a small cooldown debuff

If heavy armours currently didn’t have ranged weapons I would say fine give them heavy but when any player can be melee or ranged but is fixed in armour it changes everything. You can have rifle warriors in the heavy armour never using melee and elementalists in light armour forced into melee d/d etc

Which emphasizes choice, over “heavy is just more protective cos it’s heavy”

Good way of explaining what you meant, + 1

retracted- no sense in getting infracted over commenting on bad logic.

Time gating sucks, period

+1 internets

here is your coupon, be sure to click the link below and carefully remove the portion of the screen with SAFETY SCISSORS, we don’t want any accidents now

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/034/706/winternet.jpg?1318992465

Jski.6180:

Its really not they have stayed with there manifesto video. If any thing the players or your self even do not want to play by the Anet manifesto. You know some ppl have fun by getting HARD TO GET ITEMS and by making it easier to get your killing there fun so its you whom wants to remove other ppl fun.

I never said stop playing and it was nothing like it. I just think if your so focus on one thing in the game then your no longer playing the game your playing for that one item. It stop being a game at that point BUT that is the chose made by the player not by Anet. Now Anet could just remove these items from the game and there would be no more problem but i think most like the idea of having something that will take a long time to get. Look at it this way how much rage there was with the idea of just buying one of these weapons ppl want them to mean something to have it if every one has it then it means NOTING.

“we don’t want you to grind” should never mean “we’re going to include grind centric design, and then punish you for grinding” this I’ve repeated so many times as being incredibly misleading. And nobody said make items EASIER to get, they said make them less reliant on RNG, stop people from flat out buying them etc etc etc etc etc, if they’re not going to keep crafting professions as relevant all through the game aside from levelling via it. Then at least don’t leave us to the whims of the worst type of RNG imaginable, the “korean esque” type…

And the answer “stop playing/dont’ do it” go hand in hand, they breed nothing in terms of discussion or resolution, or at least are far less likely to breed ideas or alternatives, and only serve as a cop out. Which I feel is kind of insulting to those with issue. And when it comes to the meaning of an item, if you can buy it flat out, then it’s not going to have much prestige, if it’s highly rng related you’re “lucky” not skilled in getting it, and if its got little to no challenge associated with the grinding of it’s materials there there’s not really much “awe and wonder” with grabbing the mats, it’s just a giant granite block that you defeat with a nail file by sheer stomach churning repetition, that’s how I find some aspects of this game. The other aspects such as WVWV may as well not exist since paid transfer went live as I’m on a dead server and can only guest into some action (read: people trolling in /m in L.A) and Spvp is about as meaningless as it gets.

Heijincks.9267:

How is it stupid? If you don’t like doing something, you simply don’t do it. If you don’t like the game, then don’t play it. Just because you don’t like the game does not mean everyone else shares the same sentiments as you do.

With that being said, sure, I admit that the “don’t like it don’t play it” only works to a certain degree. This brings us back to the practical issue. If the flaw is in a place where the subject at hand is practical matter (eg. bugs), then “don’t like it don’t play it” wouldn’t work. However, if it’s something that’s impractical (eg. legendary obtainment), then “don’t like it don’t play it” does work.

Also, while Anet’s manifesto is extremely sensationalist, they never actually went against it.

They’ve been criticized for being misleading in their manifesto, it’s a HUGE bone of contention for a lot of ex players I’ve known outside of the game, many cite it as blatant “bait and switch” others as just “wrong” but that’s anecdotal.

My point on the matter is what does one argue against “don’t like it don’t play it” other than from the natural response
“OK, but that doesn’t change the fact that I now own a game I feel I wasted my money on, and that I was misled and now have nothing good to say about the developers and publishers of the game” and how on earth does the former answer bring us to ANYWHERE nearer to a proper discussion on what might be done to help alleviate that feeling and the issues that brought it about?

If an answer to an issue like this, leads to nothing else in terms of discussion, then it’s hardly a good answer becuase it doesn’t help drive towards anything else and remains a cop out.

Jski.6180:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Heijincks.9267:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Jski.6180:

Tsumiju.3071:

I did have a definition for grind, and thanks to GW2 I’m revising it simply because of well, everything.

I can save up my Karma from doing a variety of things to purchase armor with exotic stats, but to make it look pretty I need to either play the game for several months to get 30 gold for ONE ITEM, or run the same dungeon over and over to get the tokens.

And don’t event start me on legendaries. Bad design in my opinion.

So you need all these items?

Does he need to log in?

Does he need to be able to read?

Just about anything can be argued as “not mandatory” in some long winded and ridiculous way, but they certainly help don’t they? I mean… he might just be the kind of person who derives enjoyment from gear acquisition or progression. And without that or as it is in it’s current state, he might find that it’s not enjoyable, are you stating that your opinion of the subject is more important than his? and that you as a player are too? cos every time I see you post “don’t do it then, don’t play then etc etc”

It just reads “My preference are more important than yours”

This counterargument is extremely flawed for many reasons.

He wants to play the game. Sure, logging in is “optional”, but if he wants to play the game, if he doesn’t log in at all, it defeats the entire purpose.

The issue here is that you don’t need mundane things to play the game. It’s about practicality, not justifying a want.

The argument is pointing out the stupid and yet commonly tossed about answer of “Well don’t do it then” which doesn’t answer anything, doesn’t get us to any sort of a consensus on what could be done or stimulate discussion AT ALL. I may as well answer all threads which ask why x mechanic causes y result with: “cos that’s the why”

Because it’s about as helpful to a discussion as that argument. How you derive fun from a game is a subjective matter… some players are claiming that they aren’t finding this fun, and the correct answers are NOT “well don’t do it then/leave the game” those answers are asinine and INSULTING to others.

I’m guessing though that you’re of the mind that these players who have issues are “self entitled” (lol EA games coined phrase the IRONY!) and they should just be happy with what they have

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQd9FKD7fY6p9oh5QEnE45uJlG2LvHdfI_1eZj9tw628JR52NP5FA

Its a good argument you just do not like it. If you do not like to work for something then do not work for it. Its very simple commonsense logic. Its showing the shallowness of the grind argument when you cant even counter this type of logic and you must go out of your way just to call it “bad.”

I bought this game to play it, changes to said game and discrepancies between their claims in the manifesto video have in fact brought it to the point where I don’t play the game (ironically what you suggested haha) and so I and others who share the issues but haven’t left the game out of some strange sense of idealistic hope, tend to ponder why the only answer that is given by the community at large that defends the game is to “not play the game” as opposed to help encourage people towards looking at the positive aspects in the game.

Comparatively, if you’re talking about the alternative and healthy responses which breed discussion, and the cop out answer “stop playing, don’t do it etc” then honestly, there’s nothing “good” about you argument aside from you can’t argue with it because it’s so asinine. Cleverly stupid, is the term I’d use

Heijincks.9267:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Jski.6180:

Tsumiju.3071:

I did have a definition for grind, and thanks to GW2 I’m revising it simply because of well, everything.

I can save up my Karma from doing a variety of things to purchase armor with exotic stats, but to make it look pretty I need to either play the game for several months to get 30 gold for ONE ITEM, or run the same dungeon over and over to get the tokens.

And don’t event start me on legendaries. Bad design in my opinion.

So you need all these items?

Does he need to log in?

Does he need to be able to read?

Just about anything can be argued as “not mandatory” in some long winded and ridiculous way, but they certainly help don’t they? I mean… he might just be the kind of person who derives enjoyment from gear acquisition or progression. And without that or as it is in it’s current state, he might find that it’s not enjoyable, are you stating that your opinion of the subject is more important than his? and that you as a player are too? cos every time I see you post “don’t do it then, don’t play then etc etc”

It just reads “My preference are more important than yours”

This counterargument is extremely flawed for many reasons.

He wants to play the game. Sure, logging in is “optional”, but if he wants to play the game, if he doesn’t log in at all, it defeats the entire purpose.

The issue here is that you don’t need mundane things to play the game. It’s about practicality, not justifying a want.

The argument is pointing out the stupid and yet commonly tossed about answer of “Well don’t do it then” which doesn’t answer anything, doesn’t get us to any sort of a consensus on what could be done or stimulate discussion AT ALL. I may as well answer all threads which ask why x mechanic causes y result with: “cos that’s the why”

Because it’s about as helpful to a discussion as that argument. How you derive fun from a game is a subjective matter… some players are claiming that they aren’t finding this fun, and the correct answers are NOT “well don’t do it then/leave the game” those answers are asinine and INSULTING to others.

I’m guessing though that you’re of the mind that these players who have issues are “self entitled” (lol EA games coined phrase the IRONY!) and they should just be happy with what they have

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQd9FKD7fY6p9oh5QEnE45uJlG2LvHdfI_1eZj9tw628JR52NP5FA

Jski.6180:

Tsumiju.3071:

I did have a definition for grind, and thanks to GW2 I’m revising it simply because of well, everything.

I can save up my Karma from doing a variety of things to purchase armor with exotic stats, but to make it look pretty I need to either play the game for several months to get 30 gold for ONE ITEM, or run the same dungeon over and over to get the tokens.

And don’t event start me on legendaries. Bad design in my opinion.

So you need all these items?

Does he need to log in?

Does he need to be able to read?

Just about anything can be argued as “not mandatory” in some long winded and ridiculous way, but they certainly help don’t they? I mean… he might just be the kind of person who derives enjoyment from gear acquisition or progression. And without that or as it is in it’s current state, he might find that it’s not enjoyable, are you stating that your opinion of the subject is more important than his? and that you as a player are too? cos every time I see you post “don’t do it then, don’t play then etc etc”

It just reads “My preference are more important than yours”

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

TheDaiBish.9735:

• Bestiary (i.e. Orrian Bestiary, Maguuma Bestiary)
• Events
• Explorer (i.e. Jumping Puzzles, Vistas, PoI)

This made me think of an achievements book where artwork of each goal would appear for its achievement, finishing in a full digital artbook of GW2’s Bestiary, JPs, etc.

Love at first thought.

Excellent example of a game design aspect playing to the games inherent strengths, the artwork in GW2 is and always has been beautiful.

+1, good show

Geotherma.2395:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Geotherma.2395:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Geotherma.2395:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Geotherma.2395:

http://youtu.be/jS85KJsw2rg

Felicia Day

She is also Zojja in game ^^

So lemme get this straight….

She’s hired by the game as a V.O.A.

Is given a collectors edition as a nice bonus, she makes a video of her opening it, and then makes no further comments, video’s or indications that she’s playing it after that and you assume she’s a legitimate answer?

cos like…logic… who needs THAT right?

Sorry let me be more obviously specific..

https://twitter.com/feliciaday/status/239897654740541440

https://plus.google.com/+FeliciaDay/posts/dVDWXgduRSB

Ps whats with all the anger?

Whether she plays “today” or not who knows. But seriously actors/actresses have busy lives if they do play I’m sure they of all people meet the definition of casual.

Anger? where on earth did you get the impression I was angry?

I’m simply pointing out that a celebrity who no longer plays gw2, isn’t playing gw2…
as for the posts you linked..

1:19 Sep 2012

2:
6:30 PM – Aug 26, 2012

could you please post something a little more….recent? otherwise she’s not playing gw2, merely “played” the game. I once ate calamari and it was ok, should we all assume I’m not a firm advocate of calamari and a shoe in to be it’s spokesperson? :/

I’m not having a go at anyone, I’m just pointing out the two obvious issues with this thread and the logical flaws in the answers.

And for the record, I’m no longer a GW2 player myself by my own definition of what a player is.

“Has anyone come across any interviews with people talking about gw2? "

Being constructive, and no I do not have newer info. A celebrity did the voice for an in game character and “did” play at one time. That answered the topic at some point. It seems as though your are more attacking than offering information or constructive replies.

“I once ate calamari and it was ok, should we all assume I’m not a firm advocate of calamari and a shoe in to be it’s spokesperson? :/ "

Instead of being snarky perhaps saying nothing at all would have been more appropriate as neither post offers constructive information to the OP or the thread.

I offered an example of the fault in logic, that’s not being snarky just that you’re being very loose with what you consider to be “a celebrity who plays gw2”

The correct answers to his question was, around launch we know of several celebrities, one of which being the zoija voice actress were actively playing GW2, recently very few if any have mentioned it. But that’s not to say that they don’t play it, just that they’re not mentioning it.

If you’re going to use outdated information, perhaps it’s better if you don’t say anything as it’s potentially misleading.

And if you take offense to that, well might want to consider what you said first.
More often than not there’s a LOT of hypocrisy when it comes to claims of ad hominem… I wasn’t attacking you, merely questioning the reasoning behind offering up comments from last year… but as always I “have” to be attacking to disagree right? can’t question anything… yeah?

:/ ridiculous.

Fixed, just for you.

" I know there have been a few celebrities in the past who have publicly said that they play certain mmos so I was wondering what kind of a celebrity player base we have in gw2. "

Answer: Felicia Day “did” at one time play the game, also she is the voice of Zojja. I’m uncertain as to if she plays any longer, but I hear she is very busy with her current work. Celebrities usually get paid to speak about products, as far as agents go though I imagine they push celebrities not to endorse without pay. I did some more looking but the game is still new so who knows. I’m sure game designers, programmers might play the game, and in some peoples mind they might be considered celebrities in a way. I can picture other MMO makers player through level 80 and comparing their game to this one, but thats just me, I have no proof :P

Thank you, I do appreciate it. But don’t do it for me, no no do it for the crazy cats who ask these questions :P

congratulations, you have beaten Guild Wars 2.

Geotherma.2395:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Geotherma.2395:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Geotherma.2395:

http://youtu.be/jS85KJsw2rg

Felicia Day

She is also Zojja in game ^^

So lemme get this straight….

She’s hired by the game as a V.O.A.

Is given a collectors edition as a nice bonus, she makes a video of her opening it, and then makes no further comments, video’s or indications that she’s playing it after that and you assume she’s a legitimate answer?

cos like…logic… who needs THAT right?

Sorry let me be more obviously specific..

https://twitter.com/feliciaday/status/239897654740541440

https://plus.google.com/+FeliciaDay/posts/dVDWXgduRSB

Ps whats with all the anger?

Whether she plays “today” or not who knows. But seriously actors/actresses have busy lives if they do play I’m sure they of all people meet the definition of casual.

Anger? where on earth did you get the impression I was angry?

I’m simply pointing out that a celebrity who no longer plays gw2, isn’t playing gw2…
as for the posts you linked..

1:19 Sep 2012

2:
6:30 PM – Aug 26, 2012

could you please post something a little more….recent? otherwise she’s not playing gw2, merely “played” the game. I once ate calamari and it was ok, should we all assume I’m not a firm advocate of calamari and a shoe in to be it’s spokesperson? :/

I’m not having a go at anyone, I’m just pointing out the two obvious issues with this thread and the logical flaws in the answers.

And for the record, I’m no longer a GW2 player myself by my own definition of what a player is.

“Has anyone come across any interviews with people talking about gw2? "

Being constructive, and no I do not have newer info. A celebrity did the voice for an in game character and “did” play at one time. That answered the topic at some point. It seems as though your are more attacking than offering information or constructive replies.

“I once ate calamari and it was ok, should we all assume I’m not a firm advocate of calamari and a shoe in to be it’s spokesperson? :/ "

Instead of being snarky perhaps saying nothing at all would have been more appropriate as neither post offers constructive information to the OP or the thread.

I offered an example of the fault in logic, that’s not being snarky just that you’re being very loose with what you consider to be “a celebrity who plays gw2”

The correct answers to his question was, around launch we know of several celebrities, one of which being the zoija voice actress were actively playing GW2, recently very few if any have mentioned it. But that’s not to say that they don’t play it, just that they’re not mentioning it.

If you’re going to use outdated information, perhaps it’s better if you don’t say anything as it’s potentially misleading.

And if you take offense to that, well might want to consider what you said first.
More often than not there’s a LOT of hypocrisy when it comes to claims of ad hominem… I wasn’t attacking you, merely questioning the reasoning behind offering up comments from last year… but as always I “have” to be attacking to disagree right? can’t question anything… yeah?

:/ ridiculous.

Geotherma.2395:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Geotherma.2395:

http://youtu.be/jS85KJsw2rg

Felicia Day

She is also Zojja in game ^^

So lemme get this straight….

She’s hired by the game as a V.O.A.

Is given a collectors edition as a nice bonus, she makes a video of her opening it, and then makes no further comments, video’s or indications that she’s playing it after that and you assume she’s a legitimate answer?

cos like…logic… who needs THAT right?

Sorry let me be more obviously specific..

https://twitter.com/feliciaday/status/239897654740541440

https://plus.google.com/+FeliciaDay/posts/dVDWXgduRSB

Ps whats with all the anger?

Whether she plays “today” or not who knows. But seriously actors/actresses have busy lives if they do play I’m sure they of all people meet the definition of casual.

Anger? where on earth did you get the impression I was angry?

I’m simply pointing out that a celebrity who no longer plays gw2, isn’t playing gw2…
as for the posts you linked..

1:19 Sep 2012

2:
6:30 PM – Aug 26, 2012

could you please post something a little more….recent? otherwise she’s not playing gw2, merely “played” the game. I once ate calamari and it was ok, should we all assume I’m not a firm advocate of calamari and a shoe in to be it’s spokesperson? :/

I’m not having a go at anyone, I’m just pointing out the two obvious issues with this thread and the logical flaws in the answers.

And for the record, I’m no longer a GW2 player myself by my own definition of what a player is.

Geotherma.2395:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS85KJsw2rg

Felicia Day

She is also Zojja in game ^^

So lemme get this straight….

She’s hired by the game as a V.O.A.

Is given a collectors edition as a nice bonus, she makes a video of her opening it, and then makes no further comments, video’s or indications that she’s playing it after that and you assume she’s a legitimate answer?

cos like…logic… who needs THAT right?

Dear god….. NO.

For me, grinding is that feeling I get when, while levelling or working towards a goal, I’m in some way artificially held back via systems that are either obvious or not. Horrible RNG, Calendar gating, lack of ingame systems. This then combines to cause that large lump of stone that i’m trying to carve into something I want, a huge granite blob and all i’m being offered to use while carving is a nail file. Hence, now instead of carving my goal out, I’m grinding away slowly at it, thus after a set amount of time my patience wears thin and I begin to question the point and/or design.

Having done that with this game, I decided that combining my rational conclusions that I subjectively drew along with the attitudes of those that would near attack me for drawing them and sharing them, I realized this was not the rpg I was looking for, and I now retain no faith in Anet or NCsoft as developers or publishers period.

I can handle repetition, it’s part of a game really that it may be limited, but the sheer insurmountable and bland grinding that this game offers simply takes too long and all in a game that doesn’t have the solidity to hold me to it. It’s to me, simply a sub par game that is far from living up to it’s potential.

Ethics.4519:

bpphantom.8243:

darkace.8925:

Dante.1508:

thisolderhead.5127:

It is the road, not the destination…
;-)

The road blocks in the road, make the destination unreachable..

Bull[expletive]! There is not one single aspect of this game in which you cannot participate without a full set of Ascended gear. Not. One. Single. Aspect.

Please help me infuse my exotic gear so I can run level 30-50 fractals with my guild and not get obliterated by Agony.

You can still do it, they just have to revive you. He never said it wouldn’t be hard, it’s the fact that you still CAN do it.

What is this… I don’t even…

We get people throwing condescending meme’s at people and utter nonsense like this, which completely ignore the higher repair costs, the continual dying and feeling that you’re not pulling your own weight in a group and instead being “that guy who keeps dying” a noted and important factor to SOME players is that they avoid this might I add. And 1: those posts are allowed to exist while adding NOTHING to the discussion (albeit it’s not a healthy discussion at all) and 2: faulty logic is abound…

This thread, should be killed with fire. NOW.

Pointless thread. they won’t change it at least not any time soon. Why bother?

No offense

1: Very little about this game is new, very little.

2: That staff post AT LEAST had the decency to be a named and official statement. Kudos for that, and yes it was the right thing to do.

3: If you consider “EA games” as a successful company, you have some strange ideals of what makes a successful company, Riot Games does things VASTLY different to the likes of EA and is FAR more successful, what does that tell you about the actions of EA?

Also their dante’s inferno advertising fiasco set the gaming industry back SEVERAL YEARS in public opinion. You ursan clearly have NO IDEA what you’re talking about. And I’ll take the infraction to tell you that with a grain of salt.

4: To answer the op’s question, No I do not trust A-Net anymore, and I feel sorry for them more than anything as they ARE doing their job, they’re being told to make a game a specific way by their publisher, their monetization is being handled by an EX NEXON director (public opinion of Nexon is common knowledge and justified I’m not calling anyone out) and ultimately they if truth me told are just following orders. Judge them for that however you will individually, but your beef is with the evolution of the gaming industry as a whole as opposed to A-net themselves.

5:

I’ve mentioned it numerous times in my posts previously, but being a marketing / brand manager professional myself I’d simply be out of a job from the PR work and the antics of this company.

You may be asked to remove that, or prove it, but honestly I thank you because it’s about time someone in who shares the job, cast a professional opinion on their “antics” and said outright that it was farcical.

“But the games not barren of players, I’m on x server and me and my guild <insert name here> are ALWAYS there and there’s ALWAYS players on that specific event or nearby, this is another whinge thread”

-Usual dude.

oops forgot to add “INB4”

op was making a killing on ecto’s and invested heavily in them… no other reason for this kind of idiocy.

Korrigan.4837:

So some hardcore you know left because nobody wanted to play with them anymore and commit 3+ hours 3+ nights a week to a video game, with all the loot drama and other problems going with it, when they no longer had to and could experience the content another way?

Thanks, Mr “Hellkaiser” – you just proved my point. Much obliged.

Not half biased there Mr Korrigan.

And that’s NOT what I said, it made people look at the reality of the raid environment, should they bother with the content on normal when it was obsolete? the difference between LFR and the effort of logistics and preparation meant that for the meager stat differences, and the fact it was an EXTRA lockout, added to the fact that they also counted for set bonuses. Led to many deeming normal raiding as pointless unless you were in a hurry to get geared, if you didn’t want hardcore why get normal mode gear anyways, you had LFR and that was normal without all the hassle for pretty much the same rewards and half the mechanics turned off that would gib you. it was the height of spoon feeding and it was INSULTING to consider THAT as what “casual” means.

Once this was established, and all the flaws were pointed out and not much was done, many decided that this wasn’t the game they signed on for and left, these weren’t “hardcore” they weren’t doing the highest tier of the game, they were middle of the road raiders enjoying themselves that just suddenly had their content TRIVIALIZED as if their effort was pointless. As for the loot drama, they only further exacerbated that by further messing up stat priorities later on in MOP. One sure as hell reason why I will not return to the game.

Korrigan.4837:

Aegis.9724:

The thing is, dedicated players are the reason MMOs live and prosper. Casual players, especially in a game like gw2, tend to leave and return from time to time.

This couldn’t be more wrong. The hardcore are a small minority. The vast majority are people who can’t afford playing a game 8 hours a day, those who pay for the MMORPG the hardcore play are the casual. That’s true in GW2, but that’s also true in all other MMORPG, including the “mighty” WoW. Blizzard understood that well by adding more and more casual content to their game, last being the raid finder, allowing to see the raid content without having to schedule several evenings per week around a video game like if it was a second job.

Fact is, without casuals to pay the majority of the developer’s bills, the hardcore would have no game at all to play.

And yet 99% of the people I know who left the game, did so because raid finder was a great idea, so badly implemented that it forced them into the conclusion that standard level raiding was completely pointless and obsolete.

The company also released raid finder, with the statement that not everyone was experiencing the content they created for in raids and thus is was an answer to that issue, then went ahead and still made firelands ( a fantastic dungeon) completely and utterly obsolete, no… casual players must get to the END and RIGHT NOW! and even though they could click a scale in the city to see the ending they would have the RIGHT to experience it, in a manner that could only be ridiculously TROLLED into failure…

When people talk about raid finder as a success, it makes me wonder just how little people understand about the games themselves. As well as simple logic.

LFR could have been epic, instead it was a huge joke and a bone of contention that caused many to leave as suddenly it was pointless to play on the content they had chosen to stick to.

Korrigan.4837:

On my server (Gandara – EU) you can’t go anywhere on the map without encountering other players. Maybe the OP is on a low population server, I suggest you use the guesting system to go check out some of the highest population servers.

And I see the doom conspiracy crowd is here in force – not talking about the OP – the poster above me is right, a mod should do something, but against those who spread those rumors based on no evidence that the game is not doing well or being doomed. Some people must realize that them not liking the game doesn’t make it neither bad, nor doomed.

The irony, is that you kinda just did exactly what I was talking about, and went for the whole “appeal to ridicule” fallacy :/

If someone is complaining that their server is dead as a dodo and any time they go to play the game they’ve BOUGHT and WANT TO PLAY but cannot do so or find themselves wondering if the game has other players in it at all and thus log back out. Then the last thing they need to be told is “it’s all in your head” as that’s not only rude but ignorant.

it could be a server population problem, not an overall problem but to these people it’s still a VALID and REAL concern, insulting them and calling them “doom mongers” because of this and due to a general ill tone on the forums about the game, and an overly zealous loyalty to Anet, won’t get any issues addressed and will just in fact cause the thread to be locked, and at that point I sincerely hope people are reprimanded not for defending the game, but scuttling a potentially VALID discussion on an issue SOME are experiencing.

This game is doomed probably. I barely see any players around

And “this” is the flip side of the coin. Ridiculous statement is ridiculous.

some really great responses in here, but I think i’ll have to be a bit less elaborate

Elitists and those that exclude others from activities are bad, we should never encourage it, sadly it HAS happened and hasn’t been addressed.

“Casual” players, ie terribad lazy muppets and not the actual casual players who are limited in time, are just as bad on the opposite end of the spectrum, those that would auto attack their way through a dungeon, clicking on their skills and keyboard turning, shows that the game hasn’t helped the player to come to better conclusions of how to play and shows they’ve reached the conclusion that the best way to “play your way” is to do so at others expense in terms of input.

Jeeebus. I wouldn’t mind if the rabid posters ready to defend against the “population decline” comment didn’t do so with such a complete DISREGARD for what the posts usually SAY instead of just mindlessly attacking them. Can we please get a mod to stop this rubbish :/ if people cannot take a simple logical observation without going full on rambo, then clearly this topic should go bye bye and wrists need to be slapped.
Kudo’s to those that at least realized that the comments were about the initial dropoff, and shame on those that followed that up, by attacking and getting aggressive afterwards.

Hey look, no one’s entered the dog show, I’ll enter my decaying old donkey into the running, that will make it a show winning dog right?

Logic… where art thou!

Those leaving: “This game is dead on it’s feet and/or dying”

Those staying: “This game is thriving and we’ve gained members in our guild even”

The difference? nothing, if you’re not enjoying the game and direction then leave and remember it next time A-Net develops a game and markets it, inform others that they might not get what they expect, Personally I will NEVER purchase ANYTHING that’s published by NCsoft, or has involvement from ANYONE who worked at or with NEXON. That’s just my “opinion” as a consumer. I don’t blame anyone for staying or enjoying this game however, and do enjoy posting on the forum albeit mostly cos it’s an interesting divide in the community which is amusing to a degree even if it’s baffling.

I would personally like to at least see them phrasing threads more carefully in future, stephanie’s thread did just seem condescending, but still, this could be something that is a great giant step in the right direction for GW2. I’ll however remain cautiously optimistic, the market however, is still in a horrid state.

Geotherma.2395:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

I just received another 7 chests in the past two weeks – not even one key!

This ratio is way biased.

ANet why don’t you improve this?

Cause the chest rewards are also on the gem store ^^; and the gem transactions are what fund content.

sarcasm or ignoring the points intentionally?

MaRko.3165:

Just another ‘legendary’ whine thread.

If you think those are rare have you found “Final Rest” yet?

There are a number of ‘named exotics’ that have yet to find their way to the TP. There’s a few threads dedicated to “Final Rest” alone.

Long term = greater than 18 months.

Probably bugged… lol