Guild Wars 2

Inoki.6048:

Everything that has happened to GW2 is because of its management. There are many talented people within the company what you can also see in the game (graphics are flawless), but they are restrained and underpaid from what I’ve learned.

While I cannot post more here, drop me a private message if you want to know why things are as they are and why a bright future is highly unlikely.

you seem to know a lot of details about how there corporation works. perhaps you can enlighten us by posting more!

Swift.1930:

Ashen.2907:

Celtic Lady.3729:

warbignime.4610:

eldrin.6471:

so people you ask in games opinions matter more to you than the thousands of posts on these forums?well each to there own.

Also Reddit, if you want accurate representation reddit is the place to go, also a lot of post are made by a few people posting multiple times so thousand is kind of exaggeration , it is nothing compare to the GW2 population as a whole. The fact is people who are unhappy are way more likely to post on forum, and bad post here can not be down voted to oblivion like reddit.

If posts people simply disagree with are downvoted on Reddit, how is that representative? Doesn’t it simply mean that whoever gets there first, their opinion is the one on top? Be it positive or negative?

Reddit currently agrees with his opinion and so it is an accurate representation. If/When opinion on Reddit shifts so that it no longer agrees with him it will be biased and inaccurate.

Well…
1) there are people who have simply given up on the game and left without leaving feedback,
2) there are people who have simply given up on the game and said so on these forums, but nowhere else,
3) there are people who dislike the changes but grit their teeth rather than voice their concerns, and
4) there are people who dislike the changes and frequent the forums (which are the official forums for the game and don’t require creating a separate account) but don’t use Reddit.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of MMO gamers who simply aren’t social or don’t care to get involved in online discussion.

So I’m not sure why you’ve decided that because one channel (not even an official channel) agrees with an opinion, it is an accurate representation. There are countless people on these forums who are actually going out of their way to say “STOP COMPLAINING” (yep, in caps) in existing – and sometimes even new – threads. Taking Reddit information by itself is a very poor sample.

there are many inaccuracies with reddit and should not be trusted. For example people can create multiple account or using bots!

REID.1058:

Anet please add a “Dungeonmode” to raids. So we can 5 man it. Also bring back defiance stacks so we can deepfreeze and icebow 4 All time to Slip difficult game mechanics. As reward we only want the same amount of Shards as the normal mode so we can farm thehheck out of it and gain our ascended shinys for free.

yeh, Sometimes people don’t have time just to join a big raid thats a very good idea, and for the 5 man there should be two difficulties too!

Red Mistress Denna.9804:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

I was very enthusiastic about heart of thorn and as a matter of fact I bought the ultimate Edition the very first day it came out! I was so hyped I give HOT a score of 10 out of 10 without even playing it. Now after 3 weeks and after getting my feet wet in raids I have to say. " boy I am wrong and boy I’m I dis-pointed!" Now I give the game a 1 out of the 10. But don’t get me wrong, I still love the base game guild war 2 I just simply don’t like the expansion!

Here are what I think is currently wrong with Heart of Thorn.

1) mastery system, to be very honest I was hyped when I first learned to fly around and started leveling my mastery points, but after a while I ask myself the simple question, what do I get for putting all this hard work into leveling my mastery? Do i get more powerful? no! Do I get better ways to farm for gold so I can save up for another legendary item? No! Do I get to unlock secret location? Yes, and its disappointing because most of the time there are no reward and I am the only one there! I just simply don’t see a point with the mastery system and as a matter of fact I have stopped leveling it and I just simply don’t care!

2) disappointed wvw, and as a matter of fact many people have stopped playing wvw, this is mainly due to the new zones being created.

3) Raid, I am very hyped about raid, but after getting my feet wet I see many problem with the current state of raid!

A) no looking for raid group on the group finder! This is just stupid because even WOW allows you to atomically look for people via the Dungeon Finder!

B) the raid mechanic are stupidly easy compared to WOW, as a matter of fact the only difficulty with the raid comes from the enrage timer, I have spend over 30 hours with various pick up group and guild trying to down the very first boss Vail Guardian and we couldn’t do it. Now I am not against hard content, what I am against is only releasing hard content and not having a similar easier difficulty. The great game developer side meier said you need at least two difficulty hard and normal. Now world of warcraft made their raid difficulty correct, they have normal difficulty, heroic and mythic! I mean come on guild war 2 development team how can you kitten this up? And is very simple to have a easier difficulty just give us more time!
Hence I suggest for raid there should be 3 difficulty
Normal engage timer goes off after 15 minute
Heroic enrage timer goes off after 12 minute
Hard enrage timer goes off after 8 minute
and to make everyone happy each difficulty give different reward, for example on hard difficulty the raid give you more guild and more crafting material for your legendary, and their should be a leader board on who can beat the raid faster!

4) Dungeons got destroyed, Dungeons use to be one of my favorite activities in Guild War two and it has always been a nice extra to get the gold and mats. Now they have nerfed dungeons down to nothing, I mean why would you nerf a fantstic content like Dungeons? WHy would you destroy the best part of guild war 2? now for people who crave 5 man dungeon content they will have to run Fractals over and over again! But they haven’t even added anything new to fractals! Its basically the same thing!

Personally, I love HoT and it is the only reason I have returned to GW2 from a fairly lengthy break. However, I do agree with some statements:

Namely, the Raids. I love the difficulty of the Raid. Learning the mechanics, working as a team rather than a ragtag group of DPS’ers, it’s great. But the enrage timer kinda sucks, and I would love to see tiered difficulties like you suggested. (Or even just make it like in GW1 where you got Bonuses for completing it in time). Also, the Enrage timer makes it seriously difficult (if not impossible) to utilize the ‘varied builds’ that Anet touted pre-release. You want to be a mildly tanky dps? Sorry, we’ve already got our one tank: gotta go zerker. I will grant that they have added a use for tank and healer, though.

well I am sorry to inform you but there is nothing you are missing out if you dont buy HOT!

Altair.8402:

From my experience (only beat Vale Guardian so far), if your team is good enough to survive the mechanics, the enrage timer shouldn’t even be an issue. Adding a few minutes to the timer doesn’t really make it any different or less challenging.

that’s simply not true, with the many groups I joined we have no trouble with the mechanic but in the end it is the enrage timer that killed us, we constantly downed the boss to around 10% health left!

eldrin.6471:

At this stage i would not trust anet to boil an egg.first big content release in years and they screwed it up.ye you got 1% going oh great we got raids,but most are saying this xpac is a mess.you grind mastery and master nothing but the ability to fail over and over and over at meta events that were never tested properly and were not fixed in-spite of community uproar.

Arena net have failed miserably! There is just too many things about this new expansion that’s wrong!

saturn.4810:

Then keep legendary armor in the current raid, and make the rest available in an easy mode raid.

I think that works! I just want to enjoy the content, don’t really care about the legendary armor!

Raid, I am very hyped about raid, but after getting my feet wet I see many problem with the current state of raid!
A) no looking for raid group on the group finder! This is just stupid because even WOW allows you to atomically look for people via the Dungeon Finder!
B) the raid mechanic are stupidly easy compared to WOW, as a matter of fact the only difficulty with the raid comes from the enrage timer, I have spend over 30 hours with various pick up group and guild trying to down the very first boss Vail Guardian and we couldn’t do it. Now I am not against hard content, what I am against is only releasing hard content and not having a similar easier difficulty. The great game developer side meier said you need at least two difficulty hard and normal. Now world of warcraft made their raid difficulty correct, they have normal difficulty, heroic and mythic! I mean come on guild war 2 development team how can you kitten this up? And is very simple to have a easier difficulty just give us more time!
Hence I suggest for raid there should be 3 difficulty
Normal enrage timer goes off after 15 minute
Heroic enrage timer goes off after 12 minute
Hard enrage timer goes off after 8 minute
and to make everyone happy each difficulty give different reward, for example on hard difficulty the raid give you more gold and more crafting material for your legendary, and their should be a leader board on who can beat the raid faster!

I was very enthusiastic about heart of thorn and as a matter of fact I bought the ultimate Edition the very first day it came out! I was so hyped I give HOT a score of 10 out of 10 without even playing it. Now after 3 weeks and after getting my feet wet in raids I have to say. " boy I am wrong and boy I’m I dis-pointed!" Now I give the game a 1 out of the 10. But don’t get me wrong, I still love the base game guild war 2 I just simply don’t like the expansion!

Here are what I think is currently wrong with Heart of Thorn.

1) mastery system, to be very honest I was hyped when I first learned to fly around and started leveling my mastery points, but after a while I ask myself the simple question, what do I get for putting all this hard work into leveling my mastery? Do i get more powerful? no! Do I get better ways to farm for gold so I can save up for another legendary item? No! Do I get to unlock secret location? Yes, and its disappointing because most of the time there are no reward and I am the only one there! I just simply don’t see a point with the mastery system and as a matter of fact I have stopped leveling it and I just simply don’t care!

2) disappointed wvw, and as a matter of fact many people have stopped playing wvw, this is mainly due to the new zones being created.

3) Raid, I am very hyped about raid, but after getting my feet wet I see many problem with the current state of raid!

A) no looking for raid group on the group finder! This is just stupid because even WOW allows you to atomically look for people via the Dungeon Finder!

B) the raid mechanic are stupidly easy compared to WOW, as a matter of fact the only difficulty with the raid comes from the enrage timer, I have spend over 30 hours with various pick up group and guild trying to down the very first boss Vail Guardian and we couldn’t do it. Now I am not against hard content, what I am against is only releasing hard content and not having a similar easier difficulty. The great game developer side meier said you need at least two difficulty hard and normal. Now world of warcraft made their raid difficulty correct, they have normal difficulty, heroic and mythic! I mean come on guild war 2 development team how can you kitten this up? And is very simple to have a easier difficulty just give us more time!
Hence I suggest for raid there should be 3 difficulty
Normal engage timer goes off after 15 minute
Heroic enrage timer goes off after 12 minute
Hard enrage timer goes off after 8 minute
and to make everyone happy each difficulty give different reward, for example on hard difficulty the raid give you more guild and more crafting material for your legendary, and their should be a leader board on who can beat the raid faster!

4) Dungeons got destroyed, Dungeons use to be one of my favorite activities in Guild War two and it has always been a nice extra to get the gold and mats. Now they have nerfed dungeons down to nothing, I mean why would you nerf a fantstic content like Dungeons? WHy would you destroy the best part of guild war 2? now for people who crave 5 man dungeon content they will have to run Fractals over and over again! But they haven’t even added anything new to fractals! Its basically the same thing!

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

Dunno if I’m the first to notice this, but it sure does seem like the tier 1 major traits from the Revenant’s Salvation specialization resemble the original starter Pokemon. This is an easter egg I can get behind.

http://imgur.com/gallery/dLCdcTw

thats interesting

Darkstar.7839:

A lot of people seem to struggle to find a good dragon stand map, A lot of the time you find yourself in one with a reasonable population but the timer is too low to start to start the events. Wouldn’t it make far more sense to start the map timer once the initial events have been triggerred?

i think the problem might be that Dragon Stand is a cross server event and every server is time excatly the same, by changing that foundamentality, it might invite hackers because instead of each server being together, it then is instance based hence hacker will have a field day!

Amineo.8951:

I used to run dungeons and fractals dailies, now one got nerfed very hard, the other is a gold sink and gated behind the expansion on top of it (can’t get past lvl76 without grinding a lot more because of masteries…), and the only way now is SW which is annoying because of how many times I did it. Let’s not forget PvP too with the unbalanced Elite specs…
There’s also TP flipping but it ended badly, I made a stock of Tattered Batwings before the end of Halloween, hoping that the price would go up a lot but it decreased by 100% of it’s initial value two days after…

I know this is to make the expansion more appealing, but so far I don’t think it’s worth 40€ (25€ seems more like a fair price), I’m waiting for Raids and the rewards for doing these aswell as the changes in Fractals rewards, but otherwise I’m not tempted to buy it, there’s too much content that have not been finalized within it like the story, some missing components etc…

its only 50 dollars, here is how u can afford it, instead of going to macdonald every day, just go once a weak, thats 35 dollars saved! Instead of going to movie theatre every week, just dont go to the moves this week thats 10 dolalrs, now u have 45 dollars. Instead of eating candies every day, just dont eat candies today and tahts 5 dollars! now u have your 50 dollar so go buy the expansion!

sorudo.9054:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

sorudo.9054:

there are two things i like to see as improvement.
1.) a better, more engaging battle system.
i feel like playing on autopilot all the time, a game like ESO let’s you influence the battle by your own skills, not letting the game it self decide your powers.
in GW2 however, i feel like i have to do barely anything at all, it’s more like the game it self decides what i can and can not do.
levels is the biggest problem with this, in GW2 you just have to be 5 levels lower and you’re practically useless, in ESO you can still take on enemies about 7 levels higher on you while not losing even one health.
so as i said, player skill instead of player level.
2.)a world that feels right.
i personally find the world of GW2 less fun then the one of GW1, maybe it’s nostalgia but i think it’s just a small bit so.
the reason why i like the maps of GW1 allot more fun is because every single place has a story behind it, the environment speaks for it self.
in GW2 every single map is pretty dead, it doesn’t tell a tale at all and even with NPC’s trying to fill the gap it just doesn’t do it.
i just think GW2 maps are to bare, not much thought has bin put in place and that’s a pity.
forests have toothpicks as trees, mountains are way to per-determined and even caves are made way to much with big groups in mind.
i actually like to get lost in a forest, i like to try and find my way though a labyrinth of caves and tunnel networks.
the whole fun of getting though a map is to find your own way, discover new places, places you might have missed for over 3 years.

i personally think Anet did it as save with GW2 as bioware did with SWToR, use old systems and try to make something new.
the cost with that is that the game becomes pale and empty, nothing really new can be found and the longer you play GW2 the more you’re gonna feel this.

I never played guild war 1 so I wouldn’t know, But i did play Elder Scroll Online. I can say ESO failed because they didn’t have any really good endgame content. For example the dungeons are hard very hard, but after you beat it you dont get level appropriate reward! Another problem with the game is the class is too diverse for its own good, it might look fun on paper but in reality when you give so much choices to the player it creates unreasonable complications, and only the most elite of players can properly navigate through the maze and find the optimum build! there are so many other things wrong with ESO that I wont go over and off course graphic is very bad!

unless you got blind after line two….
i never said anything about anything else but the battle system, i never talked about end game…
oh and the graphics of GW2 are childishly bad compared to ESO, the maps are also constructed so much better then any GW2 map made.
but i digress.
i talked about 2 specific things and you start badmouthing ESO on points that doesn’t even make sense, if GW2 was really so much better why are you even wasting your time reaching the end game in the first place.

ESO engine was based off of SWTOR, they could have made ESO graphic really great, but because they were going to make ESO a multi platform game they had to dumb down the graphics so the cheap console boys can play it!

here are 10 reasons why ESO sucks

QUEOTE from an expert ESO PLAYER

1. The text-chat will ruin immersion.
2. There will be those annoying people spamming trade requests on the text-chat.
3. Hackers, hackers everywhere.
4. There will probably be a high chance of the player-base being people who never even played Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim because Elder Scrolls Online is F2P.
5. Story is bland due to multi-player.
6. There’s no freaking Nazeem or Nelkar.
7. You’re just an ordinary adventurer, unlike in Skyrim, you’re the Dovahkiin, while in Oblivion, you become a legend by defeating the Oblivion crisis.
8. You cannot mod it (none of your favorite Skyrim mods like SkyUI, SkyRE, etc.)
9. Judging by the graphics (which I went to), it’s more worse than vanilla Skyrim’s graphics (probably due to multiplayer) and multi platforming.

BattleCat.2098:

My couple of wishes for Guild Wars 3:

2. Make it multiplatform. Yes, I know this can be quite controversial, but look at Elder Scrolls Online, Final Fantasy XIV and DC Universe Online. MMORPGs on consoles can work quite well. It doesn’t mean downgrading the PC version in any way, of course. It just means more people get to enjoy them, and that’s never a bad thing. (oh, sure ESO was crap, but the other two are pretty good.)

Making guild war 2 multi platform is a dangerous and horrible idea, Look at what multi platform did to diablo 3, look at what it did to GTA 5, Elder Scroll online, elder scroll series, fall out 4? Do you see a pattern? All of those game have dumb downed graphics, and the UI are made easier just so some cheap kid who cant afford a real game machine (PC) can have fun playing on his cheap Xbox or Playstation. I personally dont own any of those two machines, and games that are ported from those platform I refuse to touch! For example when GTA 5 first came out I never touched it, and when they finally release it for the PC, I did even bother to go look at its price. Multi platform will dumb down graphic and hold pcs back, and everyone knows if PC games are really pushed, it will look 100 times better then any console cheap kitten!

Lorath.2504:

http://i.imgur.com/2O5j79o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hwYwIBC.jpg

Two of mine. Also, its not a newly released game. Its already 1.5 year old.

A decade ago it would have looked like this:

http://i.imgur.com/uI5lPaI.jpg

those pictures are not bad:) well I got go to sleep and thx for the pictures, by the way is that your character in those pictures?

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

I am too tired to argue, but I think some thing are best left as a mystery, maybe you are right maybe not, but we must not be selfish and just satisfy what is best for ourselves, we must think about the community, and everyone in that community.

My friend… if we had a personal damage meter, you would see with your own eyes that your maximum DPS vs bosses with heavy armor, perma prot, power invulnerability shields and deadly AoEs is only about 10% of what you get in other locations… therefor you really don’t need to struggle so much as a squishy zerker to achieve so little when you can much have so much more effectiveness with so much less effort by playing a condition build in that particular encounter.

Once you see that with your own eyes, next time a condition build player joins your party at that particular encounter, you will not kick him… in favor of another zerker with the same low effectiveness… you will be happy to see that condition using player.

Do you understand what i am saying ?

If we ever get a damage meter we’ll laugh together about how you use to struggle to achieve so little in some encounters when it could have been done so much more elegant.

I’m the guy who was mad enough to test the REAL DPS values of the meta builds so i’m one of the only people who actually knows what is what…

I hear what you said, and yes it would be nice to optimize every build for every fight! as a matter of fact I wish you the bets of luck, and if this link https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xxdfo/gw2_dmg_meter/ is a real damage meter, you already got what u wanted, so why are we even arguing, you should go take a look at that link and I must go to sleep, good luck to you! Oh by the way I can see you are a very dedicated guild war 2 player and I really really do admire that from someone! I wish you best of luck and I mean no harm if I offended you in any way!

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

I am too tired to argue, but I think some thing are best left as a mystery, maybe you are right maybe not, but we must not be selfish and just satisfy what is best for ourselves, we must think about the community, and everyone in that community.

Lorath.2504:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

I never played guild war 1 so I wouldn’t know, But i did play Elder Scroll Online. I can say ESO failed because they didn’t have any really good endgame content. For example the dungeons are hard very hard, but after you beat it you dont get level appropriate reward! Another problem with the game is the class is too diverse for its own good, it might look fun on paper but in reality when you give so much choices to the player it creates unreasonable complications, and only the most elite of players can properly navigate through the maze and find the optimum build! there are so many other things wrong with ESO that I wont go over and off course graphic is very bad!

Huh? The visuals in ESO are pretty kitten good. The wide range of choices for building your character is also an advantage. If youre feel like youre lost just read up a bit. The endgame content complaint however is perfectly valid.

Look at those graphics? you are kidding me right? is this a game made for the enxt generation or do we have to go back a few decade?

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Offair.2563:

Just my 2 cents.

If this meter will be completely personally as in only showing your own dps and not of someone else, why not? I used one in WoW just to see my own performance and to see if i could improve myself on certain encounters.

the problem is it will not be just for you, the potential for abuse is obvious. and once you allow personal dps meter, very fast the elitist plaeyrs will demand dps meter for every single encounter! Also personal DPS is not personal because immediately parties force you to post your best dps score, whether it is in chat, instant message, or forums!

You are being ridiculous… they can’t force you to post your DPS before you even made it, and by the time you did finish the instance being kicked or not is irrelevant.

Right now people are being kicked at “hello” by others who blindly follow spreadsheet math which is nowhere near close to reality.

Unless you are a wanna-be elitist who enjoys kicking others based on spreadsheets, a personal damage meter will not effect you what so ever.
It will simply allow players to make the correct decisions and improve themselves… and it will also make them stop following spreadsheets and conclusions drawn from them… which is the reason people kick others at “hello” in the first place.

you do have a good point, as I have played very high fractals just recently beat 100, yes people do get kicked and without being given a chance, as a matter of fact people get kicked from arah dungeon path 1 LOL! I feel your pain, I wish I could just give you a personal damage meter so you can be happy, but I cant, I am just afraid this game will become wow! I cant imagine everyone demanding your best personal dps score, that to me is just to invasive, it will destroy this nice and friendly community that we all have come to love!

Offair.2563:

I get your frustration with it. It ruined a lot in WoW yea but thats why i said i wont have problems with it IF its personal and you cant see others nor you can link it.

if they do add a personal dps meter, then they must have rules and regulations against discriminating people based on dps meter! But I just dont see how those rules can be inforced, and how it is even possible to set rules!

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Offair.2563:

Just my 2 cents.

If this meter will be completely personally as in only showing your own dps and not of someone else, why not? I used one in WoW just to see my own performance and to see if i could improve myself on certain encounters.

the problem is it will not be just for you, the potential for abuse is obvious. and once you allow personal dps meter, very fast the elitist plaeyrs will demand dps meter for every single encounter! Also personal DPS is not personal because immediately parties force you to post your best dps score, whether it is in chat, instant message, or forums!

kdaddy.5431:

For what ever reason this always feels bugged. Our guilds mission is the quaggan rush in frostgorge. There is another guild at the same mission, they pop it and we try to pop it. Our mission calls for 11 min and they pop a 6 min rush. Either way dont care as long as it gets done.

My guild pops our start mission at the fresh start of the new rush. The 6 min timer goes, now our guild mission is suppose to have 11 min but we get the 15 people across in time. Just in time, my guild contributed 6 of the 15 that got across and we ddint get credit for it. None of us got the personal reward but bigger is teh guild favor. We didnt get any of it.

Many of us are frustrated since we did this a few times and completed it a few times and nothing at least 3 times. The one time we got our guild banner to pop as the banner we got 11 out of 15 but the previous one the timer was shorter then ours again it said 15 out of 15. Why is this not working for us? If you have multiple guilds at the same rush but its has this stupid bug.

Come on guys

yeh this bug needs to be fixed fast!

Mallis.4295:

Man the stupidity is overwhelming. I’m done here. If you want a response you can look to my previous posts where I have already replied to the same things you keep saying over and over.

and you are a genius!

DavidGX.7240:

Agreed. No damage meter, ever, personal or public. The effects it has on a game have already been shown (WoW) and if they add one to this game, I quit. Instantly and without hesitation.

i second that, I will just go play fallout 4, heck there are so many single player rpgs I am giving up so I can spend time playing guild war 2!

Mallis.4295:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

well if the raid is that challenging then I hope they nerf it to an acceptable level! Because I really dont want to see exclusive content for the very few! I did not purchase this game just to be left out of some of the best content and I am sure 90% of the guild war 2 player base will find that unacceptable too!

Yeah how about no. Instead of Anet bringing the difficulty of content down to your level how about you try to actually improve so you can complete it. It’s not “exclusive content for the very few” it’s content accessible to anyone with HoT. You just have to actually put in some time and effort like everything else in the game that can’t be straight up bought with real cash.

tl;dr – git gud

why do you assume I am not good enough for the new content? And no if it is too difficult for 90% of the people then it must be nerfed, I dont want this game to turn into wow, because as soon as it does thats when I quit!

here is my setting

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

AMD E450 1.65 ghz dual core APU, Radeon HD 6320 GPU,8 GB ram 500GB HD possibly 7200 rpm. Win 7 64 bit.

ok I see your problem, I think your graphic card is ok but the processor is just too slow, you need 1 or 2 core with high ghz. for example my is i7 5960x overclocked to 4.7 ghz! Oh by the way never buy AMD, always go with intel!

I had my family buy it as a emergency replacement for college for the better one I had that burned up after 3 years, as it had issues since I first got it. I have many problems with (mostly speed issues) this current one, but heat issues destroying it will never be one of them.

This one is also 3 years old.

Images are me going best appearance to force all high. The laptop doesn’t get any hotter unless I go even higher than that and start checking boxes.

thank you for sharing your character she looks very pretty!
and here is my girl

Mallis.4295:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

if you think guild war 2 already have a more elitist community then any other mmo then you are delusional! Ok maybe for pvp it is true, but we are not talking about pvp and I am not a pvp player. For PVE rangers and necro are fine I see them at high level fractal all time. Man did you forget to take your medication?

It’s very true. In WoW people get excluded based on bad play or not meeting their requirements which isn’t elitist just practical. You have really bad logs and try to get into a group checking logs? You haven’t killed the boss before and try to join a group checking achievements? You step on a mine and kill your whole raid? You do really bad DPS? Get kicked.

In GW2 it’s very different. You get kicked just based on your class because people assume that you’re going to do lower DPS because of some spreadsheet math that no one has actually seen and there are no damage logs to show that even though your class has a lower DPS ceiling you can pull top numbers and do much better than those bad condi engi players.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

We’re not getting a DPS meter. The reason why is because DPS meters exist to discriminate. Anet doesn’t want you to discriminate against gear, classes, or even playstyle. Anet doesn’t want you doing DPS cals to find a perfect rotation. Most players are perfectly happy without a DPS meter, and Anet isn’t going to add one into the game just so a few people can satisfy their curiosity.

Increasing the count of stupid posts are we? DPS meters are a tool used to analyze DPS. People “discriminate” based on them in scenarios where it makes sense to do so. If I spend an hour wiping to an enrage timer on a boss I don’t want that guy consistently doing 70% of the DPS of the second lowest DPS player in the group. You say anet doesn’t want us doing DPS calcs for perfect rotations which is fine for open world or dungeons or even fractals. When it comes to raids which are meant to be very challenging and have hard enrage timers for DPS checks having a way to optimize DPS is essential.

well if the raid is that challenging then I hope they nerf it to an acceptable level! Because I really dont want to see exclusive content for the very few! I did not purchase this game just to be left out of some of the best content and I am sure 90% of the guild war 2 player base will find that unacceptable too!

sorudo.9054:

there are two things i like to see as improvement.
1.) a better, more engaging battle system.
i feel like playing on autopilot all the time, a game like ESO let’s you influence the battle by your own skills, not letting the game it self decide your powers.
in GW2 however, i feel like i have to do barely anything at all, it’s more like the game it self decides what i can and can not do.
levels is the biggest problem with this, in GW2 you just have to be 5 levels lower and you’re practically useless, in ESO you can still take on enemies about 7 levels higher on you while not losing even one health.
so as i said, player skill instead of player level.
2.)a world that feels right.
i personally find the world of GW2 less fun then the one of GW1, maybe it’s nostalgia but i think it’s just a small bit so.
the reason why i like the maps of GW1 allot more fun is because every single place has a story behind it, the environment speaks for it self.
in GW2 every single map is pretty dead, it doesn’t tell a tale at all and even with NPC’s trying to fill the gap it just doesn’t do it.
i just think GW2 maps are to bare, not much thought has bin put in place and that’s a pity.
forests have toothpicks as trees, mountains are way to per-determined and even caves are made way to much with big groups in mind.
i actually like to get lost in a forest, i like to try and find my way though a labyrinth of caves and tunnel networks.
the whole fun of getting though a map is to find your own way, discover new places, places you might have missed for over 3 years.

i personally think Anet did it as save with GW2 as bioware did with SWToR, use old systems and try to make something new.
the cost with that is that the game becomes pale and empty, nothing really new can be found and the longer you play GW2 the more you’re gonna feel this.

I never played guild war 1 so I wouldn’t know, But i did play Elder Scroll Online. I can say ESO failed because they didn’t have any really good endgame content. For example the dungeons are hard very hard, but after you beat it you dont get level appropriate reward! Another problem with the game is the class is too diverse for its own good, it might look fun on paper but in reality when you give so much choices to the player it creates unreasonable complications, and only the most elite of players can properly navigate through the maze and find the optimum build! there are so many other things wrong with ESO that I wont go over and off course graphic is very bad!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

AMD E450 1.65 ghz dual core APU, Radeon HD 6320 GPU,8 GB ram 500GB HD possibly 7200 rpm. Win 7 64 bit.

ok I see your problem, I think your graphic card is ok but the processor is just too slow, you need 1 or 2 core with high ghz. for example my is i7 5960x overclocked to 4.7 ghz! Oh by the way never buy AMD, always go with intel!

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The thing about being an elitist in this game is that it is hard to do. You have to demand people ping gear, research all the specific classes to know what they do. then demand people run those specific builds. As to whether the player you are with is doing this, you have to take their word for it. In fact, most players probably won’t show up and deal with your nonsense. Because of this, there is a fairly heavy barrier that prevents players from being anal-retentive about everything.

Things like a DPS meter make it easy. You just look at the meter, and then if you don’t feel that someone is high enough, kick them. You don’t even have to know a lot about the game. Just glance at the meter, kick. Because it is so simple and easy, the amount of players who will start kicking will grow exponentially. Making it “personal” won’t help, either. Players will just demand you copy/paste the number. Don’t do it fast enough, kick

We’re not getting a DPS meter. The reason why is because DPS meters exist to discriminate. Anet doesn’t want you to discriminate against gear, classes, or even playstyle. Anet doesn’t want you doing DPS cals to find a perfect rotation. Most players are perfectly happy without a DPS meter, and Anet isn’t going to add one into the game just so a few people can satisfy their curiosity.

i hope they dont add a dps meter but if this kitten op keeps insisting I dont know, maybe arenanet will just give in! and next thing you know guild war 2 becomes the most elitist game ever! But then I will just quite and go play another game!

Nemesis.8593:

Ulion.5476:

Damage meter would create more elitism. Guild Wars 2 was made catering to the casual gamers. That’s why we have horizontal progression, the players that look better have spent more gold/money/time getting that gear.

When I played wow their were always bosses made to difficult to block content and give devs the time to create more content. Then the boss gets nerfed and every guild beats it. I remember in Wow their was a boss so hard that it required a guild stacking necros to beat it. I do not want guilds to exclude classes because of dps/healing.

Elitism already exists in Guild Wars 2, worse then in games that have a damage meter because a few people decided to create metas based on math calculations.

Those math calculations are false in all accounts and they do not take into consideration the mechanics of the encounter…

The math showed the sinister engineer does 20K DPS and a zerker necromancer does 14K DPS without timewarp. In reality however the sinister engineer does about 10-12K, and the necromancer does 6-14K based on the encounter (depending if the boss has perma prot & other anti-power invulnerabilities or not).

Based on these facts the majority of the community used “the meta” for nearly 2 years, completely excluding necromancers and rangers… and playing full zerk melee even in places where the mechanics of the encounters were lowering their max DPS by about 80% to literally 2K.
All condition, tank and healer builds were frowned upon.

I have never seen in any other MMO, in 15 years… for 2 classes to be excluded to such an extend that i personally received hundreds of PMs/emails with people telling me that they just got kicked.

Guild Wars 2 already has a more elitists community then most other MMOs due to the fact an unknown % of the community look up to the “math-in-a-void” for guidance, and like i said… the math gives out insane DPS number differences between classes because it does not take into consideration the mechanics of the encounters which balance these numbers out.

HoT is out… Alacrity just took the complexity of the combat system to the next level… math calculations will be 2 times worse then before.

When people fail raids they will turn towards math calculations once again… it will be total chaos.

All i am asking is for a personal damage meter, so that people see that the math never resembles reality… that their REAL DPSs are actually all over the place depending on the encounter, and that sometimes they do far more DPS with a lot less effort if they would be playing a condition build… vs targets with perma prot, stealth or blink… sometimes accepting a tank build will actually make their DPS look higher because they had more DPS uptime.

They can draw all these conclusions for themselves and in time form a correct opinion… and most importantly stop wrongfully excluding builds and classes from the so called “meta”.

if you think guild war 2 already have a more elitist community then any other mmo then you are delusional! Ok maybe for pvp it is true, but we are not talking about pvp and I am not a pvp player. For PVE rangers and necro are fine I see them at high level fractal all time. Man did you forget to take your medication?
personal damage meter is not ok! it will create elitism, people will start demanding your logs for everything, fractals, pve open world content, raids, dungeons! I am completely against that!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I need a new computer to actually get personal work done as this laptop sucks and stuff hangs and freezes, yet GW 2 runs somehow albeit on less than 10 fps and lots of lag in zergs.

GW 2 is not the priority for me, its making something for myself or out of myself and making money,having a good PC play the game effectively and in the nice graphics you are touting is only a bonus for me but not as important… I actually like all low-medium and native sampling resolution better than all Ultra/High as the light sources and stuff are too bright and blinding to me.

Even if I got a new PC to play it, I’d probably bring it all back to low again.

I guess each person have their own taste! But as long as you love the game its all good!

This is as high I can force it with it still being pretty stable. Auto detect option makes it all say low and such. I can go best appearance and force it to pretty high values, but then I get into problems like stuttering and stuff. I rather not make my terrible cpu suffer even though the HD card support so much more!I might post a “Best appearance” forced image later.

may I ask what is your cpu? and graphic card? do you have ssd? to be honest I dont think ssd matters that much and 8gigbit of ram is way more then enough!
by the way on very high the character model looks even more beautiful!

Shadey Dancer.2907:

This is the type of post that makes me not to try and help people on forums anymore.

They complain of a certain topic, someone offers a possible solution, but they get ignored and would rather argue to death about something else. Oh look squirrel!

I am sorry if I offended you in anyway, by the way thank you for the information about sweetfx!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I need a new computer to actually get personal work done as this laptop sucks and stuff hangs and freezes, yet GW 2 runs somehow albeit on less than 10 fps and lots of lag in zergs.

GW 2 is not the priority for me, its making something for myself or out of myself and making money,having a good PC play the game effectively and in the nice graphics you are touting is only a bonus for me but not as important… I actually like all low-medium and native sampling resolution better than all Ultra/High as the light sources and stuff are too bright and blinding to me.

Even if I got a new PC to play it, I’d probably bring it all back to low again.

I guess each person have their own taste! But as long as you love the game its all good!

all look very nice!

Mallis.4295:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

the other part is about maintaining a friendly atmosphere where everyone can learn and excel at the game together!

Yes and not having the main tool which allows you to analyze how you can improve somehow makes sense there.

The main way I improved in WoW was looking at DPS logs of better players and spending a lot of time practicing on target dummies and comparing different things with meters.

this is not wow and if you like wow so much go back to that game! cause I am never going back to wow!

Zero Day.2594:

Serophous.9085:

…
People will be paying more attention to their numbers on the meter than what’s in the screen, thus missing when to dodge and just end up dying but “i hit 10k dps!”. Some people are downed and need help back up (note, not the dead dead, downed state), “but if I do that, my dps will suffer!”.

This is why even a personal one can cause problems, as again, focus will be on the meter and not the screen. Looking at it from a macro point of view, its a bad idea.

…
How many instances in a dungeon group in WoW did you have someone linking the dps meter? In other words, their eyes weren’t on the screen, but on the meter. Or how often did you see someone in a raid standing in fire, continuing to dps because numbers?

…

Like the other guy said, idiots will be idiots.

How do you know that someone isn’t texting his best-friend-forever during a fight?

It’s like, saying there will be more car crashes from installing rear-view and side-view mirrors – since some people won’t be able to take their eyes off them. SOME PEOPLE.

because there are many things a rare view mirrior just like a dps meter cant measure.
quote from paxthegreatone
A DPS meter doesn’t measure:
fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),
heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or
resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number
combo’s and comparables
outgoing conditions, and cleans
interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.
DOT or effective DOT
Average DPS/Time
and thus:
A value easily interpreted wrong when narrowminded

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Nemesis personally said most DPS assesments ingame (and around it, in VLOGS and build sites like Metabattle) are false, with people using spike/burst values instead of sustained DPS. A DPS meter is useless as sustained DPS is DPS/time, not only the spikes and not only the base DPS, and even if implemented I fear the majority of players would be unaware of its actual use and ways of interpretation.

Having an actual DPS meter really wouldn’t be nice, It would result in a fixed meta, cause people would all be scared to be kicked, (both the casuals and the elitists) and why?
Because there would be a need for outperforming others….

A DPS meter doesn’t measure:

• fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),
• heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or
• resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number
• combo’s and comparables
• outgoing conditions, and cleans
• interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.
• DOT or effective DOT
• Average DPS/Time
  and thus:
• A value easily interpreted wrong when narrowminded.

Leaving DPS something like MAX speed of a car on a mountainroad to the top of the mountain full of hairpins with oncoming traffic…. You could reach your max speed, but you’ll likely fly of the road, or kill someone else cause you are focussing something else, and in those (and likely other) cases not achieving your goal of reacing the top….

Lastly it will influence people to try and get cheats/hacks/manipulators ingame to manipulate the meters…. whichs will be 3rd party add-ons and will read memory (breaking TOS and geetting themselves kicked/banned/removed from play) mostly added this as I saw someone admitting he was manipulating DPS meters in WoW….

I personally feel people would go as far aas manipulating the game would be very bad, due to the party no longer knowing what and where problems come from, and if actual dmg was manipulated (other then the meter) I’d suggest all 10 being stipped of gains and the offender insteantly losig his account for manipulating gameplay and getting unfair advantages. I also thing a DPS meter would be an incentive for manipulation of the game… Maybe not for me, but for some it would be….

WOW, you make such strong points, I didnt even think of all those things! thank you for your imput!

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

HOW can a personal dps meter bring more harm.

Personal dps meter meaning, you will only see your own dps, you will not see anyone else.

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

For example before each raid, the raid leader ask each member of the raid to post their best raid dps average on some website or in the chat or through instant messaging! and those who do not qualify are asked to leave immediately!

What?

So the member can’t lie about their numbers? Now, that’s not really an effective way to check, so why would one even check.

Having a dps meter that produces logs that could be uploaded/posted somewhere counter-acts the personal aspect of a personal dps meter. It is also a feature that you’ve made up on the spot, it may not be implemented.

Sure, screen shotting can occur, but it will be more of a hassle of getting that screen shot across to the guy requesting it, and if that guy had set up various means for you to get that screen shot across, that guy would have probably kicked you later down the road for smelling funny (judging by his initial attitude). And of course this would all have to happen relatively fast upon joining a group – else you would join a group and wait 30-40 minutes for everyone to post their screen shots somewhere – Yeah like people will accept that kitten (well, maybe like a very tiny populace will, but, they would be too few). Come up with a simple way of getting a screen shot across for this purpose.

look I will be ok with a DPS meter as long as it will not be used to boot people, harrass people, intimidate people, and get people kicked out of a raid before they even had a shot at raiding! However, I am afraid that will not happen, because the very nature of a dps meter is elitist and it will cause a lot of grief among-est plaeyrs!

Serophous.9085:

I never understand the argument for “how great a DPS meter is”, since we can go to games right now with a DPS meter and see how “wonderful” it is.

And while you can argue that the mighty few will use it properly to find the correct dps build, guess what the majority of players (you know, the ones that either don’t visit the forums at all, or very rarely), will do? Abuse the heck out of it or misuse it, causing more annoyances than needed.

People will be paying more attention to their numbers on the meter than what’s in the screen, thus missing when to dodge and just end up dying but “i hit 10k dps!”. Some people are downed and need help back up (note, not the dead dead, downed state), “but if I do that, my dps will suffer!”.

This is why even a personal one can cause problems, as again, focus will be on the meter and not the screen. Looking at it from a macro point of view, its a bad idea.

We can look at WoW and its Dps meters, and let me ask you this, how balanced are those classes in numbers? They aren’t? But they have so much outsourcing and people showing them the numbers to be adjusted!

How many instances in a dungeon group in WoW did you have someone linking the dps meter? In other words, their eyes weren’t on the screen, but on the meter. Or how often did you see someone in a raid standing in fire, continuing to dps because numbers?

So you can argue all you want how it can “make the game better”. I can already draw up current implementations and see how a dps meter hasn’t made a game any better at all.

thank you and you bring out very good points! I agree with you 100%

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

HOW can a personal dps meter bring more harm.

Personal dps meter meaning, you will only see your own dps, you will not see anyone else.

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

For example before each raid, the raid leader ask each member of the raid to post their best raid dps average on some website or in the chat or through instant messaging! and those who do not qualify are asked to leave immediately!

Purple Miku.7032:

Lmfao, “create elitism.”

Such an ignorant thing to say. Elitism exists on all games and is already and has been rampant throughout GW2 since launch and will always exist. As long as there’s a disparity of skill level, which there always will be, then there will always be people who get fed up with crappy players being on their team and will try to avoid it happening.

There’s literally no possible way to completely eliminate elitism from happening in combat oriented settings unless you normalise any and all possible output from every single piece of equipment, skill, and level of all players in the game.

did you even read my post friend? if you have then you would of know elitism is only part of the argument and the other part is about maintaining a friendly atmosphere where everyone can learn and excel at the game together!

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

OnionXI.6735:

Seems like there are a number of casuals in this thread who don’t know who you are or what you do for the community.

For those complaining that this would fill the game with elitists, wake up, because they’re already here. The difference however is that their elitism is based on ignorance. If you don’t do the kind of content that leads you to encounter these people, then you won’t have to worry about the existence of a dps meter either way.

Having real numbers for fights would be beneficial to the community at this point.

I dont care if he is god, that excatly why i like this game over wow, the elitist have no place here!

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

AWACS.6537:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

20 wipes? Let me guess, you were the one doing the least amount of work, right?

kitten u are a genius! kitten

yeh this is a really bad design flaw or a bug, either way I think you guys deserve to be compensated! Hopefully arena net fix the problem! To be honest if it turns out to be a bug i think you guys deserve a 10 gold for all the trouble u have to go through!