Guild Wars 2

Myth #4: We got to tier1 because we worked hard:

Mythbusting: When I was on SFR the (then medium) server also worked hard but no amount of work can compensate for lack of population and off-time coverage. Then SFR received a lot of new players, not excluding few US guilds, and suddenly it’s tier1. Because of hard work? No. Because of higher pop and timezone coverage.

It’s nice that you work hard in a computer game without being developer, but when your false sense of accomplishment fades you’ll realize the game is shallow and WvW is just a game of numbers. That’s what HoD, Erredon and many others realized once they got to the top. Being on top offers no joy at all to many of us.

saVdoom.2067:

Checked: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/9/5

SFR seem to win during EU-prime time 5 out of 7 days. As you can see at around 2-4 am is when BT starts getting a huge amount of points.

You’re obviously not looking properly.

DAY1 Saturday: BT has more points than SFR, whole day, until midnight.
DAY2 Sunday: BT has lead the entire day until almost 10pm. This is where prime time ends for people who have to go to work etc. SFR is the only server who counts 1am as “prime time” though.
DAY3 Monday: BT leads whole day until 10pm when people need to go to sleep.
DAY4 Tuesday: BT leads until 10pm when people need to go to sleep.
DAY5 Wednesday: BT leads until 9pm, SFR takes slight lead until 10pm, then both are even in points until early morning hours.
DAY6&7: BT is resting because it has a huge lead in points.

As you can see, SFR was completely defeated in prime time and could only take a lead once prime time was over and everyone went to sleep.

Webley.1295:

Sorry my mistake, BT are the best and always will be. When they beat everyone it was a really good fight and they were skilled, but when they loose its because they didnt have enough numbers. KK thanks. Got it.

No you didn’t get anything, you’re living in your own world and arguing with yourself. Unlike you and those like you, BT did not have egomania problems. So spare me, I played half of my GW2 time on SFR and half on BT and I’m well familiar with both servers. And since I’m not even playing this silly game right now I could care less about all this, but I don’t like the myths and trash talk. Myth #3: “BT was saying they won because they were skilled”. Really, can you make one single post without lies and deceit and twisting of words? Ask anyone on BT why BT won and they’ll tell you what I told you. But with SFR it’s always “oooh we’re super skilled”. So what, so are some people and guilds on BT, but it’s not what wins the war, and besides “skill” is really shallow term in GW2.

Anyway, not wasting more time replying to malicious posts.

Webley.1295:

We always used to beat you prime time.

SFR always liked myths and this is one of them posted regularly. Blacktide beat SFR in prime time. Check the history on that French website if you need.
Myth #2.. prime time. There is no such thing. SFR once beat BT during “prime time” months and months ago, when BT had zero players at that hour. I think just about any EU server would have beat BT at “prime time” back then.

WvW is pretty much a game of numbers and off-time battles. If your server is better at that you’ll win. Not because you’re more skilled. Also, prime time is the least important time for winning WvW.

I can’t believe after few months of WvW people are still feeling “proud” their server beat someone.

Hecksa.7140:

Man, that does sound really easy now you mention it. Guess they are just noskill, button mashing failures.

Weird how no one else seems to be able to use such an easy tactic and beat them, though, isn’t it? Almost as if there’s something more to it than spamming one…nah, that’s crazy. Everyone else must just get unlucky. Repeatedly.

Feel free to massage your ego by pretending you’re better than those RG scrubs all you like.

You didn’t understand the point.

RG right now looks like some uber team, but that says more about the current poor state of GW2 than anything else. What RG does is what an average HoH (HA) team in GW1 was doing.

I also asked earlier what’s the cause of this. Why RG is pretty much the only guild I saw that does stuff like skill chaining. Something that was normal for GvG, HA, TA, back in GW1. An average spike team from GW1 (3-2-1-spike) would be perceived here in WvW as a war machine.

Whether you want to admit it or not, 95% of WvW is just that – button mashing. Even in a RG group. Few people chain needed skills, and the rest button mash. And the same happens in PvE – button mashing. I think this is the underlying reason why RG is sticking out. Players who like skill-based combat leave GW and don’t want to participate in this charade. That’s just how it is. And that’s the reason why others don’t use “such an easy tactic”. Why bother? The game is numbers and spam based not skill based. People who could play better than RG or equally good have nothing to do in GW2. It’s like expecting chessmasters to play tic-tac-toe.

And no, I don’t play anymore. I look at GW2 exactly like tic-tac-toe. The same level of depth. GW1 is vastly superior game, both tactically, fun-wise, story-wise, adventure-wise etc. If they released an expansion for GW1, I’d play it.

vipeout.2485:

My question is – where are people? Doing fractals 24/7? 2 weeks ago we’ve had queues on EB whole day since the very early morning.

Personally, I’ve been avoiding WvW (and that means GW2) since Ruin joined the server. I’d rather fight for French against them but I don’t speak French..

If I had to guess why others are not playing, I wouldn’t say it’s because of Fractals. It’s probably a combination of boredom and not being needed. Blacktide is so much ahead that even with some teaming up from Vizu and Arbor it’s still about even in points. And once weekend is over it will get a clear lead. Thus, the motivation for more activity is pretty much gone.

Win motivation aside, what’s left is gameplay motivation. WvW has so many issues that have not been solved since release, and we know what those are. I logged into WvW an hour ago, died to a huge invisible enemy mob, logged out. It’s just not worth it. That, and the fact that under lvl80 chars are so pointless in WvW. Half of my armor is yellow gear but I do around 150dmg on autoattack. Sure I can take my lvl80 but it’s boring to play the same thing all the time. I can’t even change the build properly because changing gear costs quite a lot without PvE farming.

Even the only reason why I’m here typing this is that I installed World of Tanks and test server is full so can’t login to check new tanks.

Regards,

Nah, you can easily win if you have zero players during prime time as long as offtime is covered. Prime time is usually shared/split between 3 servers (or at least 2), while during offtime you can pull 600-700 points per hour.

That’s why people talk about zerging. Almost all guilds (ok, all guilds I know except Xaoc) always have organized gameplay in the evening during prime time. You don’t really hear someone saying “guys, tomorrow 10am our guild meets for WvW time”. Weekend not counting of course. So what you have in off-time is few people from this guild, few people from that, few pugs.. and what you get is basically a zerg. It’s not going to be some high level of organization. But that zerg is what essentially wins games. Others can have great battles and have lots of fun. Others can kill tons of enemy players and play really good. But in the end, it’s mostly about how well offtime zerg does.

saVdoom.2067:

So you’re saying its: Prebuff like a boss before the fight then rush in or portal in, then spam as much AoE (damaging/heals) as you possible can and keep spamming/pushing till your enemy is down, and move together to take advantage of culling/AoE capping only 5 players maximum?

Sounds about right to me… so much for “WvW skill”…

What I said is what I typed, and what you’re talking about here I’ve no idea. You mentioned so many different things that I honestly don’t get the point.

• Of course you’re going to ideally “prebuff like a boss” before the fight. Every skilled player will use as much advantage as possible. That’s why skilled groups run with stuff like Bloodlust and food buffs. And of course, if you’re about to hit the enemy in 5sec you’re going to prebuff yourself with that skill that gives your next x attacks bonus in damage. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, that this is bad?

• Of course you’re going to rush in or portal in. You want to surprise the enemy so they don’t prebuff, and so they become disoriented.

• Of course you’re going to spam as much AoE as possible. What else would you do, cast one AoE and wait 60sec before another?

• Of course you’re going to keep spamming/pushing till your enemy is down. Im not gonna bring him to 30% hp and then say “ok now it’s your turn to hit me”.

• Of course an organized group is going to “move together”. What else would they do, split and each charges different corner of the map?

• Not sure what culling has to do with all this and who mentioned that? It’s not my fault the game has issues, but I certainly won’t advise guilds to go on a borderland in groups of 3 players because anything more than that might cause culling.

• AoE 5-limit comment makes even less sense. First of all, the limit is a good mechanic and second of all, who was talking about that?

I mentioned group synergy and you started raving about every single thing that bothers you in WvW.

Snort.3698:

What exactly mean by zerg?

The term is bandied about but many conflate the concepts of mass pvp with “zerg”

I guess it depends on the context but what I mostly mean by “zerg” is big numbers without combat tactics. Just to be clear here, every group is going to use some strategy; whether it’s in picking the target objective, when and how to use siege etc. And yes, some guilds are better at this than other guilds, so I don’t mean to offend anyone by saying everyone plays mindlessly.

But what I mean by “combat tactics” is how a group operates once battle starts. Most clashes in WvW (we could say almost all) come down to “do as much damage individually as you can and stay alive”. Rarely do I see skill-chaining and “abuse” of overpowered guardian reflect walls, or strong mesmer Feedback, water fields and other fields, coordinated blasts, spikes 3-2-1 (those who played GW1 know what I mean here).

I mean, even before Phantasmal Berserker nerf I expected Mesmers to group up and spike defenders 3-2-1.. it would be piece of cake to kill them one by one. Or even target siege as a group. I have never seen anyone do this. Or even want to join up doing it.

So I’m not here trying to say people don’t know how to play.. but that the level of attempted and used synergy between players is really low. And I’m not really sure why that’s the case because it happened in all forms of GW1 PvP. Even those casual ones. Is it because WvW is much bigger so at the end of a day all this doesn’t really mean that much? Because in most cases one group is decisively bigger and all this would not really make much of a difference?

Well it was just a matter of time before some people jumped on a high horse and started telling other top WvW servers that they have weak players, weak tactics..

The only guild I’ve seen on BT that uses actual combat tactics is RG. All other guilds only zerg. I don’t mean this as a criticism – play as you want, no problem – but have respect for others. GW2 doesn’t reward tactic and skill so why bother. I understand it. But no need to flame others because they don’t play how you want them.

Vizu has been on top all the time. They are obviously doing what’s needed to stay on top. In terms of WvW they are top server. You want them to play your way? Why would they? That would be pretty dumb. They don’t play to duel people but to win in WvW and that’s that. The only thing you get in WvW in direct clashes are badges. Not points.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

As it stands last week BT won with smaller number to my opinion wich gives more satisfaction then zerg-victory.

BT won every single time exactly because of zerg victory. Get off your high horse. BT isn’t #1 server because it’s the most skilled 1 on 1 but because it outzerged and outtimezoned other servers. And that’s that. You could even remove RG from BT and there would be no noticable difference for a simple reason that RG usually plays in prime time and that doesn’t get as many points as you can get when everyone is asleep at 3-4am. It’s just how game is designed.

And you would know where BT gets most of the points if you played a bit longer on the server, instead of being freshly transferred.

RapidSausage.4620:

farming UW and FOW were soloable by many builds, which only required precision timing, and that can be easily learned once you do it a few times.

Wait, hold on. Are you seriously claiming that FoW and UW were as easy as pressing “1” in GW2 during dragon world events or one-time events or pressing “F” when running orichalcum?

I am not claiming that GW1 was rocket science, but come on, people were even selling services to help others aquire black widow spiders. Did you ever hear anyone type “paying someone to help me kill Jormag”?

Lifelike.5862:

But you’re not -supposed- to be farming in this game! farming is some kind of grind and ew, we all hate grinds! Why don’t they just give everyone a button that they can press which gives your character 100 gold? No grind involved, other than pressing a button…ugh, but then you’d have to press the button 4 times to make a legendary. What a grind!

You’re trying to be ironic but yes, I could play a game where there is no farming. As a matter of fact it’s the type of games I play. I don’t farm even in GW (I did a small bit), because I consider it unworthy of human beings, and completely degrading to the state of mind.

But since vast majority of people love farming and the idea that they’re better than someone else purely because of time invested, there is farming in this game and many other online games.

That’s not what this thread is about so stop derailing it. It’s not about farming vs non farming, it’s about GW1 farming and GW2 farming.

Also, see my signature.

ref.8196:

Why should farming require skill?

Because skilled activities should be more rewarding than braindead activities.
Because being creative is good.
Because thinking and being awake is good.

Farming should not require skill in itself. But skilled farming should be much, much more effective than braindead farming. Instead of being the same.

Amlin.6041:

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Exactly, too many people with rose tinted glasses waxing nostalgia.

How is it rose tinted?

GW2 farming: press “1” and semi-afk.

GW1 farming: even if you go to PvX you NEED to be skilled to pull off many farming styles. Yea, you go to PvX to find Droknar run build and then what? Nothing. Because you need skill to pull it out. You need to know the area, timing, practice etc. And even then, you can die. In GW2, you can’t die.

—

I hear people mentioning PvX as if it makes GW1 equal in skill to GW2. Many guilds in GvG used same skill sets as top guilds. You would think these guilds would rise up the charts after using “top skillbars” but that did not happen.

I used to post many builds in the forum back in the day and there would still be a huge difference between me playing the build and others, because I suited the build to my own playstyle ways, I knew why each skill was there and not some other.

—

Let’s say a Monk takes the build from PvX? What then? Nothing if he doesn’t know how to play it. In GW2? You just press “1”. And not even that if you’re running orichalcum.

—

And if GW1 has PvX, GW2 has it built-in. You get weapon sets.

No offense meant, I am not saying you’re a bad ranger or anything. But you ARE fighting near home keep which gives you tons of bonuses, versus mostly 1 other enemy. The context doesn’t even show why Ranger is bad for roaming (lack of escape and such).

And that was my problem with the video. Not the video itself, but a commentary from another person who got the idea that ranger is perfectly fine. It’s not.

Niim.9260:

Nice work. You will be kicked out of the ranger club if you post positive things about your class though, it will destroy their image.

What are you talking about? This video is PROOF that Ranger is so bad.

• He fights only near home fort, which gives him entire list of stat buffs.

• It’s mostly 1 on 1 fights. No one says Ranger can’t beat another class 1 on 1. Especially not in WvW where you can outgear others. WvW is not about 1 on 1. Not even roaming in WvW. You can’t just pick few favorite fights that worked out well and put it on YouTube. That can make for a fun video but won’t make a profession any better.

• Ranger is bad at roaming. That’s why this video is all about fighting near the home fort. Because let’s say you run into enemy group of 3, or enemy zerg. What you gonna do? Die, that’s what. You’re not a mesmer or thief with stealth, you’re not ele with super speed.

• Usefulness in WvW. Where is it? Killing few enemy players near your home fort means nothing in WvW. It’s not like these players would take Stonemist or anything. Fighting dolyaks is useful, taking camps is useful, even killing veterans or taking quaggan power nodes. Or killing enemy players who are moving to besieged tower, and thus cutting their manpower. But ranger is poor here. And that’s the problem. You can’t fight dolyaks because you have to be in the open. They just don’t pass near the home fort wall like in this video. You can’t cut enemy man supply because what if you run into 3 enemies and not 1? How you gonna escape?

ankdarkwolf.1487:

So, yes, even if ranger is said to be the worst wvw class I find it really useful in different aspects.

Everyone is useful in WvW. A lvl2 can be useful and run supplies. But there’s a reason why Ranger is considered so weak.

Your skill level is not yet at the point where you can recognize game changers, so just pick profession you like the most.

Let me show you what I mean by quoting his post:

-Trapping entry points, using traps as alarms (due to a ‘bug’, detection range is far)
-Speed-building siege
-Strong AoE Healing (spring, spirit and pet)
-Pet Torpedoes (lots of problems with pets, but they have good tactical utility when used properly – especially against siege)
-Entangle – even though it is bugged, when used well this is a game changer
-Self-Revive – being able to self-revive via Lick Wounds also has great tactical value, when used properly

None of these are game changers. Here’s what these things do:

• Speed building siege does nothing. The main limitation of siege is supply, not speed it’s built. Nor can you build siege by yourself, so you still need to wait for other people to finish building siege.

• Never tried using traps as alarms but most players in WvW have a route, a mission, and stick to it. If you’re sieging Tower X you’re not going to run back to camp at the far south of the map just because enemy is coming there. It’s not your mission anymore to defend it. You can’t even use traps on ambush points to backstab enemy solo players passing through. This is because Ranger is horrible, horrible profession for roaming in WvW. I really can’t think of a single usage of this. Even if I stayed close and wanted to defend some area, why would I use Ranger for that, possibly the worst class for defending?

• Pet Torpedoes. Don’t know what this is, and don’t know how a pet can possibly survive longer than few sec. Or even reach enemy siege.

• Entangle. The range of this thing as well as affecting only one person (AFAIK) make this useless in most cases. It’s a horrible elite, and I really like the idea behind it. Correct me if I’m wrong but Sylvari racial creates AoE vines. Also, not sure how this is game changer, as entangle is destroyed almost instantly by just one person. In WvW normal situation you won’t be in range of it, and when you will it will die to random AoE.

• Self-Revive has no tactical use whatsoever. Range downed state is vastly inferior to just about any downed state im familiar with (Memser, Thief, Ele, Guardian, Necro..). The only time Ranger Self-Revive will save you is when no enemy is near you. In which case this would not matter at all. Personally, I think many of the ranger stuff only seem great to those who only play Ranger.

TSLlol.4879:

Not only was GW1 farming skill based. It was rewarding too. You basically get nowhere by farming in GW2. Easy example is today’s case. You farm hours upon hours to get your gold, while someone else attends a 2 hour long event and gets 200g gifted to them in a form of a precursor. Yeah, byebye.

Yea, that made me stop farming in GW2 (and playing as well). Someone who just attended a braindead event, was pressing nothing but “1” and was mostly AFK, could get 200g. Just like that. Just by being there. And I should waste my time with boring farming? Not gonna happen.

I never felt cheated when playing GW1.

Seren.6850:

guilds should be able to have a commander.

Wait, guilds are not able to have a commander?

Are we talking here about PvE chit-chat guilds or WvW guilds which are supposed to be war machines? If your guild cannot afford multiple commanders in 3 months of gameplay, then it certainly does not deserve commander title. The guy can’t even command his guild mates.

I’m sorry but this is a joke. I sent 1g the other day to Xaoc leader even though I’m not even in their guild. And 1g is nothing. If your guild has members contributing nothing to the guild, you don’t deserve a commander in WvW. Just because you have a guild doesn’t mean it’s anything more but a collection of lone-wolf pugs. I’ve seen plenty of those guilds in GW1. 20 people online, every single one doing something solo in PvE.

Hymnosi.5928:

styx.7294:

One commander for every guild? That seems like a lot of commanders.

As opposed to 100g = commander?

There shouldn’t be server commanders in the first place, or possibly limit it to the one commander with the largest guild behind him.

100g is perfectly fine and certainly better than another free commander per guild.

Commander only for largest guild? Anything else? How about just allowing largest guilds from each server into WvW? Who needs others. It seems just as reasonable and “logical”.

I started a Ranger some days ago, just for fun, and to see what all the fuss is about. Now, the class is horrible in terms of power and utility (I play it in WvW and a bit in PvE). But one thing caught my eye.

Having a pet greatly extends in-combat time, and thus prevents me from healing that occurs one is out of combat. This is not as relevant perhaps in PvE where everyone just plows through, but in WvW you need to be able to flee and regen fast, perhaps change a weapon too. Being in-combat means no instant healing, and worst of all, lower movement speed. Imagine you’re skirmishing and suddenly you see enemy zerg. You start retreating and you outrun all enemies.. and at this point you would start regening and regain your normal combat speed but alas! Your pet is dead somewhere far behind you and prevents you from getting out of combat. Eventually enemy zerg catches you up and kills you. True story.

I’m not sure whether switching to Avoid Combat improves this, but even if it does all this juggling is just annoying. I have two pet modes: one that means “avoid combat” and the other that means “attack everyone on the map”. Even if I don’t attack those targets.

Anyway, I made ranger just for some casual fun. I really can’t imagine anyone having ranger as a main character.

Actually, Rednik is trying to tell you somethning. Instead of just dismissing it instantly, think about what he’s saying.

He s not saying YOU need to wake up 6am Moscow time, but that you could wake up 6am your time, just as they wake up 6am their time.

You could still go to work and what not, you would even have advantage over working Russians because you would be the last one to capture things (all other things being equal).

I still think changing your sleep schedule for this game is pointless. A game where main strategy is to out-timezone your opponent isn’t a game worth playing (hence I’m typing here and not playing).

Kardiamond.6952:

Wow…

I know on these forum, wanting progression is the evil and all, but I’m not affraid to say it. I play for progression. That’s what I like. I love starting weak, getting stomped, then getting better and better.

But you’re not getting better and better. You still suck, it’s just your gear gets better and betters.

I like progression too, but progression in skill.

Braxxus.2904:

and yeah it’s for sure a little biased since I do participate in all facets of the game (PvE, TPvP/SPvP, W3).

Yea, I have even better idea.

Everyone has to mimic how I play for 1 month, before they’re able to equip Ascended armor.

If anyone plays the game differently from me, they should not be allowed to get Ascended.

Is your guild so disorganized you don’t have for multiple commanders?

Even a 10-man guild can easily have 1 commander. Many guilds have 500 members, that’s easily 50 commanders.

Every 10 days.

Your suggestion is basically: Give bad guilds a commander.

No.

HtFde.3856:

Have you actually ever tried Fractals? It’s VERY different from the other dungeons, requiring much more teamplay.

Off-topic but yea, Fractals are much better than other dungeons in just about every way.

Still, it’s PvE, it’s GW2 PvE* , and I don’t like the requirement of doing something 1000x so I can do something else I like. That’s against the entire idea of GW2.
—

• - by this I mean that it’s more boring than GW1, less tactical, and I can’t stand enemies reappearing and spawning all the time. In GW1 those I kill stay dead and that’s it. It’s not even that these enemies come from some corner or next room, they keep spawning 1 meter away from me.

Zen Later.6475:

adamian.9638:

Most idiotic post I’ve seen in a long, long time. LOL at you and your belief that it will take “a couple days max.”

More like the most truthful post you’ve read in a while.

No offense but to support our war efforts in another mmo that shall remain nameless, we had upwards of half a dozen pve only guilds in our 0 sec zones (hint hint) supplying us. On top of that, we had regular corp (hint, hint) pve groupings for drops and rares.

It’s funny that there are so many inexperienced mmo players here, who at the same time, are filled with self entitlement. Super bad combo that leads to so many QQ post such as this one.

Do you not understand some of us come from GW1 not from "those other MMOs where PvE people pretend to “PvP”?

I don’t care about other MMO’s where you play gear wars and pretend to be good just because you grinded a lot. In GW1 PvP (all PvP modes) everyone was on the same level in PvP and I mean same level as sPvP in GW2. And those who won, won because they were better, not because they had more gold.

Do you not understand in GW2 we were promised not to have gear wars and here we are, gear warring? We bought a classical concert ticket and after 10minutes of classical music they switched to Justin Bieber. Well hell no!

Stiv.1820:

Gold just comes with time. Doing whatever events in WvW you are around, the daily and just loot bags nets me about 1g/day in with maybe 4hrs total playtime. I was able to get 1 exotic from gold every 2-3 days while having a fun in WvW. That’s not too bad even if it is way slower than PvE.

Well, let’s put it this way. Average PvEr can get 1 gold in 30min just by going from place to place mining orichalcum. Zero effort. If you’re lucky, you will get 200g just pressing “1” in a huge zerg during some of the “one-time” events.

To get 1g in WvW in 4 hours you actually have to be doing stuff. If you’re roaming in WvW, you won’t get 1g in 4 hours (not on avg at least). You also won’t if you’re scouting or carrying supplies. And if you’re following a zerg, you can get it but only if your server is stronger at the time you play. What I mean is, if you’re on a server that is being outnumbered/outplayed, are you going to get 1g? Probably not. Maybe you will. The average player will not.

And lastly, let’s say you do get 1g in 4 hours. But if you want to contribute more, you will be also buying some siege, some food, some waypoints and keep upgrades.

All in all, WvW is designed as a gold sink and that’s perfectly OK. I even like it that way. But acquiring equal gear should be trivial. A piece of ascended armor should be at most 250 badges, and there should be all stat combinations. Same for sigils and runes.

This is all just theorycrafting. None of it will happen. Even when Ascended gear appears in WvW it will cost some ridiculous amount like 1000 badges. I can’t even force myself to login to GW anymore so I don’t really care. And World of Tanks will soon have Chinese tech tree. I’d rather play that. As a returning player I will be at lvl1 Chinese tank just like everyone else, and with matchmaking when I’m at lvl3 tank I’ll play vs other tanks of similiar tier, and not lvl3 vs lvl10 as it is in GW WvW.

Adein.2031:

Ianervan.3415:

It’s not like you’re stunned for 10 seconds. You can use skills, dodge, run away.

1) Moa is 10 seconds, Basilisk Venom is 1.5 – 3 seconds (traited).

2) Moa cannot be removed. Basilisk venom breaks on any stun breaker.

3) Yes you have skills you can use while Moa’d. 5 shiny new skills (and 0 utility skills) that I have no clue as to what they do. I have to go to the wiki to memorize them just for the 0.1% of game play when I’m in Moa form..? By the time someone uses it on you, you’ve forgotten what they are and what they do. Then by the time you mouse over them to read them, you’re dead. You’re better off running away (which leads to #4).

4) You can run. Unless someone puts one of the countless forms of CC on you. And oops, you don’t have any utility skills available to remove it.

5) You can dodge. Twice, and only on the off-chance you didn’t dodge while fighting before being Moa’d. But who uses dodges during combat anyway.. right?

So yes, everyone tries to turn around and run away while dodging. But in reality, all you see is a big red message saying “Not Enough Energy” while you’re rooted/stunned/chilled/knocked down/etc, and then you die while looking like some stupid imitation of Big Bird.

Stop posting nonsense and tell me how many times you died in WvW in last 30 days because of Moa.

Why do you so conveniently forget to reply to that question?

Stiv.1820:

It doesn’t have to be obtained from things you can only get in WvW. Just attained by things you can get from WvW. I got my full set of exotics with exactly the setup I wanted with a combination of Karma, badges and gold. All of it obtained from just playing WvW.

But don’t you think that’s a bit unfair? You say it’s fine as long as you can get it with gold since you earn gold in WvW. The average gold you can earn WvWing is insignificant compared to gold you can get PvEing. If you want to get 6 jewelry/back slots + runes + sigils all with WvW gold, we’re talking about months of gameplay for average player. And karma/badge pieces you will have to be content with those bonuses, even if they’re not optimal for your build.

How many people you know how have enough badges to buy all pieces of Invader armor? Do you think it’s comparable to PvE?

And this is just Exotic armor. Average WvW player will be able to get full Ascended gear in probably 1 year. Just for one character. And the build might get nerfed.

Don’t get me wrong, I know many people will love to grind this so they have advantage in WvW because of gear. Even many on this forum, I’m sure, will have max gear in no time. But average WvWer might feel alienated. Even now, being sub-level80 is really really tough. You have to stick to the zerg like tuna fish.

It’s not like you’re stunned for 10 seconds. You can use skills, dodge, run away.

And you still didn’t tell us – when did you die in WvW to this skill? I’m really curious, hands up how many times did all you people reading this die under Moa in last 30 days of gameplay?

Then hands up how many people here died to <insert random non-elite dmg skill>.

Since some here think gear wars (or PvDoor) is PvP, I propose the following mode:

GEAR WARS

1. ANet makes a list of players based on Gear Score™ and level.
2. Then every player can click on a player name with lower Gear Score™ and click “Win” button.
3. Battle video is played, similiar to Total War: Shogun1 ninja assassinations, in which player with higher Gear Score™ kills the one with lower score.

Bonus mode:

DOOR WARS

1. Each server has a separate map, devoid of enemy players. Tower/Keep door have much higher hit points, and there are more door on the map. Siege is not allowed.
2. The winner is the server who destroys the most door.

Granz.4068:

But seriously, we need progression in WvW. We can’t just sit here and not progress our characters.

There are 2 types of PvPers:

1. PvErs
2. PvPers

PvEr idea of “PvP”: I want to beat you with better gear I got in a mindless grind.
PvPer idea of “PvP”: I want to improve my skill so I can beat you.

What I’m trying to say is that, if your idea of PvP progression is getting better gear, you’re not a PvPer. You’re just a skilless PvEr. Real PvPer would look into how to improve tactics, strategy, reflexes, cooperation with others, looking into how to win battles, wars, how to beat the other server, making more people go on voice comm.

Of course, the current design of GW2 caters to PvErs, so Ascended gear is a logical choice. Real PvPers either quit the game, are about to quit, or play that boring sPvP capture mode. I base this on the fact that I’ve only ever seen one GW2 WvW EU guild that uses tactics in combat (RG). Those who played GW1 know what I’m talking about; whether it’s RA, TA, GvG, HA, FA etc, you could not win by joining the biggest mob and spamming “1”. Even IWAY was more advanced that the metagame of GW2.

skupuz.6940:

On a grand level, yes, I agree. But on battle and individual (roaming) level, it’s still competitive. But when I say “competitive player” I mean a mentality that goes for improving efficiency, compared to casual mentality that goes “take whatever profession, whatever traits, whatever armor, whatever teammates, and hey ho let’s go”. If you play like that then you can play naked or not, it won’t matter. But if you want to be as efficient as possible (competitive mode), then you’re not going to talk how better stats don’t matter.

So even if total outcome depends on population and timezone spread and zerging, many battles itself are competitive. WvW is just a sandbox mode.

Valkh.3204:

If we talk about WvW the only thing that matters is teamwork and how you can fit there.

Stop degreading the conversation.

If we talk about WvW the only thing that matters is population, and timezone spread.

But we’re talking about actual gameplay, and you cannot tell us that better gear doesn’t matter in actual battle. Even if your team of 20 would beat enemy team of 20, if you had better gear you would win faster, and more efficiently, and thus be able to do more across the map and score more points.

I cannot possibly imagine that a good skilled player would talk nonsense such as “level and gear doesn’t matter, we could be lvl30 and naked and if we had teamwork it would not matter”. That’s newbie talk. Every advantage means a lot to competitive players. That’s why you see many using food. Because it matters. And why orbs were such a problem. Because stats mattered.

PS: Oh, you’re in a RUIN guild rotfl. That explains a lot. Why did I even bother. It’s not like your guild needs stats or anything. You don’t need Ascended armor just a “transfer server” button.

Congrats.

So now both EU and US top server is a server with most focus on off-time.

Valkh.3204:

Obtaining “exotic gear” proper for WvW is one of the simplest things in GW2. No heavy PvE grinding required.

Really? And how do you obtain those 6 slots (jewelry, back..) without heavy PvE grinding?

And if what you say is true, why is almost no one in full exotic gear in WvW?

And if I want stats other than that of exotic karma gear, what then? I have to choose inferior stats? Which brings us back to grinding for optimal gear.

Valorwing.2865:

Wow all of you really just whine and whine. You don’t like how the company deviates a bit from a such stupid idea in the first place and you go nuts. The people who earned Ascended gear earned it and have the right to go into WvW. Just because you got beat by someone with Ascended gear means nothing.

Oh **** up.

The problem is that getting gear with badges is so much more difficult than getting the same gear in PvE.

Come on, who here got his gear with badges? And who got the jewelry with badges?

By the time average player in WvW farms enough badges for 1 ascended, the other average player in PvE will farm the entire set.

PS: Not to mention that this will just increase zerging. You’ll need to zerg to get badges.

Excession.2198:

Being associated with xenophobic trolling of a single guild is fine though?

And this is coming from a guild that is xenophobic regarding French people. Great. So you and your guildies can post trash about the French in ingame chat and on the forum but suddenly others are xenophobic? I think others are anti-xenophobic, hence the turmoil.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Its the best single target CC thats why it needs a nerf. As this skill is insta win on points in sPvP. As some points are mostly 1 v 1, like in the new map.

This is WvW subforum. sPvP has it’s own balance. If you want to discuss sPvP just switch to sPvP subforum. In WvW, Moa is a weak skill that almost no mesmer uses. End of story.

Sifu.6527:

So WvW is all about numbers after all.

Seriously tho. You want balance/fair pvp, go do spvp tpvp.

And what kind of excuse is that? If one mode is broken it doesn’t mean it should be abandoned, but fixed instead.

WvW is not “imbalanced unfair PvP”, it’s World versus World, PvPvE, and should be just as much balanced and fair as any other mode. No one asks for specific skill balancing for WvW. sPvP has it’s own skills, and WvW and PvE can share a skillset, that’s fine. But there needs to be balance in WvW just as there’s a balance in PvE. When you go to Orr enemies don’t have 20hp. They have balanced hp for the zone they’re in. What if they had 1 million hp? Would you tell PvErs to go to sPvP if they want balance?

If you act as if WvW is “doesnt matter” mode, or “who cares” mode, or “do what you want” mode – then why would ANet do anything?

I mean heck, look at this game. They put more effort in freakin jumping puzzles than WvW!

Phzt.9864:

Ianervan.3415:

Go with ele and don’t listen to people who say Mesmer. They don’t play Mesmers (I do), just read forums too much. Only go Mesmer if your guild has none for Portals. Otherwise Elementalist or Guardian.

I do play a Mesmer and I am suggesting a Mesmer. I mostly run solo or with 2-3 people and we’re a nightmare group of only Mesmers and Thieves. If you like working in a small group, I’ll say that Mesmer is probably the best caster suited for the task. Maybe you’re playing the profession wrong if you think they’re overrated.

Or maybe elementalist is simply better?

Let’s see:

• Great AoE which is extremely important in WvW, compared to Mesmers near-none AoE

• Extreme speed. Mesmer has the worst speed which is really bad for roaming. So you need Centaur runes. Which still does not beat what elementalist has – elementalist has more teleports and rush skills and is thus able to break off from the combat (these skills are very important because movement speed in combat is decreased). Mesmer has to rely on Cloaking which does not always work, as in, even if cloaked you might not have anywhere to run but one direction so it’s predictable. Not to mention you will need to waste an elite for that, as Decoy is too valuable in combat to be always kept intact in case you need to escape.

• Healing. Ele is much, much better at this, including group healing. Mesmer can do this, a bit, if you specially build just for that. And this is not just about weapon skills. Because ele can teleport/rush out of combat zone real fast, break off. He can reach the edge where you’re considered out of combat, your hp instantly heals up to full by itself, and you can rush back into combat and continue fighting.

• More versatility. It goes without saying since you have more skills available.

• Overpowered downed skill which makes you immortal near fortifications or allied zerg. You have 3 seconds of invulnerability to move into safety. Mesmer skill can even teleport you in worse place, and will fool only beginners.

Even if Mesmer beat Elementalist 1 on 1, I’d still vote for Ele being better in WvW including roaming.

Mesmer is one overrated profession (in WvW not sPvP) because of Portal. I play it because of GW1 and since it’s lvl80 with mostly exotics, but I’m aware of the shortcomings.

I’m certainly not playing the profession wrong because I almost never lose 1 on 1 in WvW when roaming with a Mesmer, and I think I only lost once to another Mesmer in the entire history (he was roamer and pretty good, but he also used specific shatter build for dueling while my mesmer is more universal build for both roaming and group play).

You are free to post your opinion on why mesmer is better. Just keep in mind that if we’re talking about roaming, having better in and out of combat movement already gives you great advantage. This is because if you have good armor and know how to play (regardless of the class), you can easily kill most of enemy players but you need to catch them first, prevent them from escaping, and be able to run if enemy zerg comes. As a mesmer, you can do this well or better near the lake on borderlands, or in the lake. But in other places I’d bet on ele.

Another thing – Mesmer will keep getting nerfs and nerfs. It’s GW1 all over. If you didn’t play it, it start like this: class strong in PvP but weak in PvE. However, because balancing is mostly done with PvP in mind, the class becomes “balanced” in PvP (sPvP in this case) and horribly weak everywhere else. Indirect nerfs will also come from players learning how to play. Mesmer strength greatly depends on enemy being clueless. There’s a huge difference when you fight someone who isn’t familiar with clones and phantasms, and someone who is and knows how to fight a mesmer. That’s like losing half of your defense right there.

Average player is not really going to have 8 lvl80 classes fully geared (especially with Ascended armor). 99% will not have a single one. Having one for PvE, one for WvW roaming, one for WvW zerging etc.. this is just not viable. So at the end of a day, even if you find something that Mesmer does better (such as destroying underwater Power nodes), Elementalist will be more useful overall.

(Again, this is just my opinion but with argumentation.)

This is what bothers me the most about this event.

I refused to participate because I don’t want to waste several hours of my time pressing “1” among invisible crowd, while badly lagging.

And it so happens that in GW2 this gameplay gives best rewards. Whether it’s one-time events, or world dragon events, or orichalcum runs. You just have to be there and press only “1”.

I’m not sad because I missed getting 30-200g. I’m sad because this is so far away from GW1, so far away from any value system that exists in this world, and so far away from any other game. It’s the bottom pit of the universe. When you wake up in the morning and think: “What activity I could do today”, there is nothing you can think of, that is as mindless as GW2 super-farming. Even staring at the sky is 10x better because it improves your focus and relaxes. Even typing in online forums uses some degree of intellect. And tell me, what other game offers biggest rewards, so much bigger than anything else, for just being there and pressing “1”? On a consistent basis.

No doubt ANet did a proper research and apparently there’s a huge market for this kind of gameplay. But I will not participate so have “fun” and thanks for all the fish.

This is the reason we got for “nightcapping is OK, deal with it”:

Matt Witter.6982:

no player’s time is more valuable than another. Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.

Well I guess they just lied to us WvW players and needed some excuse to avoid fixing content.

You don’t need other people.

Just add to your party Master of Whispers, Olias, Livia, and Norgu.

Oh wait..

GW2: Zerg based and classical farming

• You follow huge zergs in Dragon and one-time events and press “1” every few minutes (the rest of the time spent tabbed out browsing)
• You walk around the map collecting orichalcum
• If you want some specific skins, difficult dungeons with boring and one-shot mechanisms (Fractals are an improvement though)

GW1: Skill based farming

• Endgame consisting of UW/FoW requires team coordination and skill, plus being familiar with the areas
• Dungeons were more fun and enjoyable, while still requiring some skill
• Running people to certain areas required some skill and being familiar with the zone (Droknar runners, Ascalon to LA, later dungeons runners, vanquishing zones for other people etc)
• Even 55 monk farming and other forms of solo and duo farming required skill, and certainly much more skill than zerg “1” farming or walking to orichalcum

Sarrs.4831:

I’m inclined to say it’s the other way; population issues are a result of the matchmaking system not doing its job, which is a result of transfer limitations not doing their job. If the guesting system were actually live, and transfers actually tied to gems as they’re intended to be, doing these massive guild transfers would be punitive

Yes it would be punitive but it would not solve the " population > win " design. It would just freeze the charts.

But yes, at least there would have more balanced and thus more interesting battles, instead of so many one-sided battles.

I wouldn’t say transfers are the problem. Transfers are the symptom.

The problem is population-based PvP mode.

WvW is basically bigger Fort Aspenwood from GW1 except one side can have 100 people while other has only 10. And the side that has 10 has to work on mass transfers, not skill, tactics, organization.

Here:

Go with ele and don’t listen to people who say Mesmer. They don’t play Mesmers (I do), just read forums too much. Only go Mesmer if your guild has none for Portals. Otherwise Elementalist or Guardian.

Phosphene.8346:

Changing servers is not what competitive player thinks. Competitive player chooses a server, and then builds tactics how to win.

Except when the only tactic available is to mass transfer.

No amount of tactic and increasing of skill will make you win vs server that timezone outspreads you.

Did you ever wonder why on entire EU server there’s only 1 guild who uses what I’d call combat tactics? Something that every GvG guild in top200 used to do in GW1, on entire EU you have one guild do it. Everyone else is doing IWAY.

Imagine if soccer rules were: “You can bring however many players you want, and can play 24/7.” This is what ANet does.

Sorry, no. There is limit per map in WvW, I don’t remember how much but the number is not huge.

And what server in the game has full maps 24hrs/day? None.

What does that mean? It means the servers without timezone spread are hurt in two ways: their enemy is ticking for 600 points in offtime, and when it’s prime time, the server who focuses on prime time is limited in how many players they can bring it, so effectively everything above the cap is useless.

And the number is so huge the game can’t even display that many.

But it’s a very nice social experiment, you know

But you don’t need to make a social experiment which reveals that if you allow one soccer team to field 20 players it will do so, despite the other fielding only 10.

If you want soccer in GW2, go to sPVP. WvW is just like real life wars – they have never been fair. Someone had better population, better technologies, better spirit, all had spies, traitors, etc. Less “unnatural” rules there are, more freedom there is.

Oh please, it has nothing to do with real wars. In real wars ever since the industrial revolution the winner was almost always the one with better technology. Zerging has been effective only among tribal societies.

In WvW population wins at least 90% of the time.