Guild Wars 2

Zacchary.6183:

Does it matter at this point?

It matters if you need a laugh.

Am I the only one who comes here only to see if there’s a new "nerf thieves’ thread after killing bad players in a WvW session?

Personally, I check every time. It’s the only use this forum offers.

By nerfing Infusion of Shadow, you are not nerfing perma stealth builds. Perma stealth d/p build can be played with only points in Acrobatics. The thing you’re nerfing right now is our survivalbility in a fight. Most importantly, our effective condi removal without wasting a utility like Shadowstep to clear condis.

You said “using a lot of different abilities to maintain stealth is ok”, but all you did was nerf the builds that actually rely on all these other abilities to maintain stealth if needed, and it wasn’t even always guaranteed you could maintain it with out 30pts in SA and none in Acrobatics.

If you’re going to go through with all these changes, can I please have free transmutation stone sand splitters so I can get my expensive skins onto a condi set? Or can you grant me a free level 80 warrior or Guardian since you think they’re the only two classes that are allowed to be played?

Thanks

Straegen.2938:

I don’t know if D/P is dead but it won’t be doing drive bys non-stop like it does today. Perma-stealth with full init regen was a design flaw IMO. Thieves just kept resetting and eventually clocked enemies when they were on cooldown and almost nobody could catch one outside of a mistake.

So, bad thieves run from a 1v1 and reset so they nerf stealth. Well, news for you, warriors can easily break combat too. Nerf Rush and Savage Leap to HS range. Balance.

Was fun while it lasted, and I just got all my new skins transmuted onto my zerker set. :(

Guess our only options now, even one of them got nerfed, is X/Dagger. So, I’ma go Condi I guess now?

I’ll make a build based on the changes, if anyone’s interested.

10/30/30/0/0 — Zerker when fighting Condi builds, Solider’s when fighting power builds.

Take III in DA — III, VI, XII in CS — IV, V , XI in SA. Force and Air on d/p with Energy on SB.

Skills: HiS for heal, Shadowstep, X (w/e you like), Blinding Powder, Thieves Guild.

—

I you lose any duels with this build you’re not as good as you once thought you were. This is the best duel build out of any duel build in the game. It, literally, cannot lose to anything.

After a month’s break I came back and noticed that warriors were stronger, good. They really needed this boost to their stopping power because they were a joke before. And, I still have no problem with any class in a 1v1 as a thief. Everything seems to be okay how it is, and I’m not complaining.

Speaking of those 1v1s, Engi is still the hardest to counter, but it’s doable.

—

As for WvW, we’ve never really had a purpose in most pug zergs. We have blasts, and before the nerf to the 15pt minor trait in DA, we had perma weakness on enemy zergs. We do need some buffs to our zerg skills. I’m no zerger as I find it boring and skilless, but it’d be nice for people who like it to see some changes.

—

Yes, we’ve been nerfed, but we’re still powerful and part of the meta. We were quite overpowered for a bit of time, and this compilation of nerfs changed that. We’re still in a good spot, and can perform well and outperform most classes.

It sometimes is a hassle and is sometimes a life saver. I love it mostly as I am not a person who plays with auto-attack on. Which I see as the main cause for this to be a problem for most people with points in SA.

I also watch my HP to ensure that I know if it’s going to pop. :)

I would suggest you run a build like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiO3cS+E95Ey2jdqCJKuHOlR1UaFoJA-j0xA4LBR+ggYyrIas9hioxqWwUmER1ujioVLFQELjA-w

This build will put out nice damage is PvE and be excellent in PvP. It’s a bit of glasscanon, but most thief builds are. (even with toughness) — For now, don’t spend anything at all! Get to the zone Frostgorge Sound and ask about the champion farming train there. It’s a quick way to make gold with minimal effort.

The build I provided is by no means the best you can have, but it IS the best you can have for a pretty cheap cost.

When you have the money ensure you buy exotics. Be sure to check for the cheapest weapons. Weapons are sold on here by what sigil they have on them. So there can be a Berserker Dagger with a Bloodlust Sigil listed for 8g or the same dagger with the same stats but with a Geomancer Sigil for 1g. This can save you a lot of money! :)

(IF THE LINK DOESN’T"T WORK JUST COPY AND PASTE IT! )

NinjaSonic.1392:

The thing is I’ve noticed D/P is really pubstompy. If I’m playing against good players it’s much less of a problem. The reason I think S/D is stronger is because of that boon ripping. The evade is great for survivability but the ability to rip boons is insane. Also Larcenous Strike is the second attack is unblockable so you can cast the first half, cast Basilisk Venom and jump targets that think they’re protected. Also with conditions everywhere a lot of classes don’t have to fight you in your blind field from Black Powder. Necros, Rangers are going to move out of it and pew pew away. Warrior’s have berserker’s stance to basically ignore blinds while they stomp you. Along with the fact that most classes are decent at stopping or countering burst.

S/D does have some nice utility in the sense of the unblockable attack and positional abilities. It’s just that a thief really needs to put out the massive damage we’re capable of. S/d doesn’t provide much for team fights in that sense. Though, this is not to say that neither of the two are viable or not. Both are very effective in various situations. I just don’t see S/D making a difference in that tournament.

Hello! Welcome back!

I am a WvW Roamer and tPvP player who has tried every build under the sun. The most effective build I have seen or played was 10/30/30/0/0 — This builds provides the condi removal you need to stay alive as well as many cushions to fall back to if you get overwhelmed.

Build: (copy paste link if it doesn’t work) — http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoalUmiO3cS+E95Ey2jKcnIKuHGlT1UaFoJA-j0yA4rASQQIKA8BwkXETgDZteWENW1CmycR16TAvRR0qlCIitAA-w

This is the build in case you don’t have any ascended gear. This build is quite balanced in stats and is super effective for burst. Please note that the Orb on the weapon is to provide 100% Crit Damage. As people tend to use the 80 power 8% Crit Damage food, I did that to make sure Crit Damage stayed at 100% while keeping the other stats balanced.

The tPvP variation of this build is Ogre Runes, Zerker Ammy and jewel.

Enjoy!

I would suggest you stick with d/p SB as they are the best for DPS in general. You may want to try a build that uses some points in Acrobatics if you have trouble staying alive. Shadow Arts would work as well. Otherwise, ensure you are DPSing as 25/30/0/0/15 as it is the best spec for DPS in Zerker gear.

Remember that SB #3 is amazing for avoiding tons of incoming damage from all sources. It’s spammable and can help you kite things as well.

You team should be made aware that you can blind trash pulls for a much more easy time. Ensure you know that you may not blind Dredge, so that fractal is a little harder.

Lastly, make sure you use you utilities right and swap per fights. Us thieves have a wall which is good versus those golems/harpies. We have various utility skills to boost DPS so make sure you go over all of them and work out what would benefit you party the most.

Hope this helps!

Some of my friends were saying that [SYNC] should’ve dropped a ranger and went with an Engi. I would agree entirely, for an Engi would’ve turned the tides in many fights.

Excalibur.9748:

If there is a class tournament again, warriors would win easily.

Warriors have received some very beneficial buffs recently that would make them even stronger than before, for sure. I updated a reply with a link to one of the tournaments. :)

Viking Jorun.5413:

Iove.3902:

Excalibur.9748:

Iove.3902:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I’m surprised neither Caed or Lady Nag Nag ran a condition caltrops thief as a hard counter to the guardian point bunkering. Maybe I run a different build than everyone else, but when Team Legacy was still together we kicked kitten with a 2/1/2 setup with thief holding center, built to fight and survive against multiple opponents. The NA bunker meta melts when confronted with heavy condition damage, despite the WvW meta being pure conditions.

That would’ve been an option if thief conditions were more effective. As you said, it would’ve been a nice counter for those bunkers. But, that’s about it. Thief Condi builds aren’t really made for the teams fights that they had.

When I participated in the Class Tournament (5Thieves), we had an excellent bunker thief who ran a d/d-d/d caltrops evade build that held mid quite well. That could be a possibility for us with more changes to come to thief condi, according to Anet.

Which class won? Do you have some links to watch too?

If I recall correctly, the Guardians won the first tournament and the Warriors won the second one. It may take me awhile to find links, but I’ll try to.

Warriors didnt win either. Defektive didn’t have K-Pop to assist and none of us had ever run the builds he wanted us to play.

My apologies, it was quite some time ago. I swear I remember them getting far in the matches though. Was quite the display, regardless.

Excalibur.9748:

Iove.3902:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I’m surprised neither Caed or Lady Nag Nag ran a condition caltrops thief as a hard counter to the guardian point bunkering. Maybe I run a different build than everyone else, but when Team Legacy was still together we kicked kitten with a 2/1/2 setup with thief holding center, built to fight and survive against multiple opponents. The NA bunker meta melts when confronted with heavy condition damage, despite the WvW meta being pure conditions.

That would’ve been an option if thief conditions were more effective. As you said, it would’ve been a nice counter for those bunkers. But, that’s about it. Thief Condi builds aren’t really made for the teams fights that they had.

When I participated in the Class Tournament (5Thieves), we had an excellent bunker thief who ran a d/d-d/d caltrops evade build that held mid quite well. That could be a possibility for us with more changes to come to thief condi, according to Anet.

Which class won? Do you have some links to watch too?

If I recall correctly, the Guardians won the first tournament and the Warriors won the second one. It may take me awhile to find links, but I’ll try to.

One of the two: http://www.twitch.tv/soacgaming/b/401474155

Viking Jorun.5413:

I’m surprised neither Caed or Lady Nag Nag ran a condition caltrops thief as a hard counter to the guardian point bunkering. Maybe I run a different build than everyone else, but when Team Legacy was still together we kicked kitten with a 2/1/2 setup with thief holding center, built to fight and survive against multiple opponents. The NA bunker meta melts when confronted with heavy condition damage, despite the WvW meta being pure conditions.

That would’ve been an option if thief conditions were more effective. As you said, it would’ve been a nice counter for those bunkers. But, that’s about it. Thief Condi builds aren’t really made for the teams fights that they had.

When I participated in the Class Tournament (5Thieves), we had an excellent bunker thief who ran a d/d-d/d caltrops evade build that held mid quite well. That could be a possibility for us with more changes to come to thief condi, according to Anet.

Excalibur.9748:

do u have a link to the tourny?

I edited the post with a link.

Hey Forum, how’s it been? My PC died at the end of July and I finally got the parts to fix it. Will be back indefinitely, and always offering help to those with questions.

Any interesting changes? Doesn’t seem like anything is different. Guess they’re saving minor changes for Tuesday and a balance patch later this month? Just some words I hear going around. Hope they give us old mug, eh?

Anyway, on to the main topic!

__

I was basically watching Caed [SYNC] (US) as much as I possibly could to see what he was up to. It seems like he was running his normal 10/30/0/0/30. I didn’t see if they went over specs/gear. (could’ve been 25/30/0/015 as well) From my experience, with duels against him, it seemed like he was playing to the best of his ability. Regardless of what the stream chat was saying, [SYNC] played well. Just that this Meta is a mess with Necro and Ranger spam.

There were some moments where Caed was dying a lot, but that was because he was the focus target quite often for [FCC] (EU). As he was playing d/p he had damage they couldn’t let him dish out, so they had to kill him often. When he had free reign he positioned and timed the burst well with his team and was super effective for the majority of the games. There was also a fight where Caed fought, what appeared to be, a condi warrior running the confusion on interrupts trait/runes. This build was a direct counter to Caed. Despite what the chat said, there was nothing he could do against that.

Others were saying that if he were s/d he would’ve performed better. I disagree, I think he would’ve lost a lot of potential damage playing S/D which wasn’t what his team really needed.

Though thief is strong in the current meta, they are easily countered by various condi builds unless they have a build with some points into Shadow Arts. With all the popular condi builds, currently in the meta, I think playing 10/30/30/0/0 with zerker and Ogre Runes would’ve been a better choice for this tournament. The damage difference would be quite minimal, but the sustainability would be welcomed. The fight with the condi warrior would’ve gone smoothly that way. (this build is my personal favorite for all PvP)

The tournament was fun to watch and was exciting in places. It was the first one ever, so there are places ANet can improve on for the next one. I had a good time watching it, and hope you all did as well.

If you have any opinions about the thief meta, just post away. Let’s get a discussion going. :-)

Love,
Iove

Edit: By request http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/454437568 — Jump to 4:36:00!

I see, but what about all the skins and things?

My PC died at the end of last month and I missed ALL of this content. (sorta why I am against temporary content; honestly the worst idea ever made in a game’s history. Besides thinking Diablo 3 was a good idea)… anyway… I digress.

My concern is not for the Living Story nonsense, but for all the things I missed. Tons of AP, unique skins, and gold farms. As a particularly casual PvEer, I never had gold because COFZZzZZZzzzz. So, missing out of good gold farms, it perturbs me to say the least.

Is there ANYTHING I can do at all with the last few updates, or am I screwed due to a terrible design philosophy?

In game name: Wasdica (iove.3902)

What class(es) do you play as your secondary/tertiary: Engi/Ranger

Are you applying as a teacher, or a student: Teacher

How many hours on your class do you have: Nearly 2k…

How many builds have you theory crafted: I’ve done it all, if you’re on the twitch community at all you know that’s all I do on BitCloud1’s stream.

Would you consider yourself a good contributor to your community: I don’t contribute to these forums because they’re full of QQ, but I do help everyone and anyone on Bit’s stream, Reddit, and in sPvP Dueling matches.

Are you friendly/helpful: Yes, I’m big on community work and public relations. I also run this game’s LGBTQIA guild.

Would you be willing to prove your skill/knowledge ingame: If you want, I wouldn’t mind killing you a few times. Or, maybe, I’ll just kill Caed and Cruuk for you?

DB is not about fair fights this afternoon

Can a thief from DB or Maguuma PST me? I need help testing how much burst you can put put on my armor value.

I might not be able to make it guys, I just got called into work — EMT. Good luck, will try to catch the stream if I make it home.

Zacchary.6183:

Before I go with my comment I would suggest you not bypass the word filter. It’ll save you some trouble.

And I completely agree with you. The problem is the recent gaming generation feels the need to dictate how one should play. This is the method that they use to inflate their ego.

You caught that eh? I’m too clever for Grace. Kappa

I’ll reinstall for this. Teach people how to actually play s/d

IGN: Wasdica
Day Available: Any day you need me, babe
Record Capability: Stream
NA or EU: NA

A lot of you are saying that WvW is meant for zerg vs. zerg, and that’s true. I, however, disagree that it’s the only way to play in WvW. Then there are those of you who say “why do you roam when you face 150 players.” To which I say, F—K off.

As someone who is on t2-NA I’m no stranger to zerg battles, and being a thief I am no stranger to avoiding zerg battles because we don’t belong there with the current state of our class.

My main point is saying this is that people should be able to play how they like. I personally like to roam and follow groups of people and pick off the slow ones, or find a zerg and do the same.* Sometimes I prefer to camp near Keeps. While on the other hand, people might enjoy Zerg battles or people might like Keep defense or trebbing walls. No one should be scrutinized for the way that they play when it’s about the fun-factor. Because let’s face it, one Thief is not going to save a friendly zerg from Arrow Car Wars 2.

Live and let live, or play and let play. Whatever philosophical phrase you prefer, honestly.

-Wasdica

*I do this because I have have been a massive fan of Open World PvP and this is the closest we can get.

Play a Condi build all you like, but the damage and playability will be inferior to a burst build until we see more damaging Condis added to our arsenal.

That being said, I think you can make improvements to the build by using 4 Nightmare and 2 Lyssa Runes. Use carrion gear until you have near 15k HP then stack the rest as Rabid or Apoth for the toughness. You already have a good amount of the health needed by speccing into Acro.

No, we get Poleaxes or Staves. I want to be Donatello.

You bought the guide? Or is this a good troll attempt?

I’m playing Neverwinter till we see Wildstar, PSO2, and ArcheAge. Come join!

Zeoli.3402:

Tbh, It kinda suggests that there will be a WvW cloaking device for smaller groups. Otherwise this would be targeting just thieves and mesmers which is singling out 2 of the 8 professions which I doubt they want. So yeh, I think they will have a cloaking device that maybe someone carries and stealths the rest of his group in a certain radius. To be honest, I’m not that worried, and you shouldn’t be… we haven’t heard it all… If they had announced mobile cloaking devices then there would be an uproar from everyone including thieves who think its a signature thing. Remember ANet giveth and ANet taketh away.

This is targeting any zeg that uses Mass Invis, Veil, Blinding Powder etc..

s/p SB 25/30/15/0/0 — Zerker armor weps with Knights/Cav Trinks have someone pull a group and LOS the mobs and spam that Black Powder. Also the Evade on SB makes escaping damage sooooooooooooooooo easy.

How the hell can someone know when an invisible enemy is going to stab them in the back and block it? You’d need some super sixth sense for that.

This thread blew up >.>. Boss.

Infinite Light! LUCKY!

Arganthium.5638:

I always used to love sword builds, particularly S/P. But then Pistol Whip was murdered, and I had to swap to something else, so I chose D/P. But with the major improvements that S/D got this patch, I’m definitely going back to the sword, and will probably stay there for a long time yet. I just hated how S/D’s Flanking Strike felt so weak, but now it’s definitely been buffed a bit, especially with the dodge roll improvement. Can’t wait.

Yeah, I have always stuck with s/d d/p for PvE and S/p SB for PvE. Sword is just too good to pass up.

I missed you while I was on hiatus, btw. D: I bet the forums were lonely.

But seriously, it’s my favorite set. I loved using the evades to make a warrior feel sad.

I used it before it was cool.

#yoloswag

omfg.. learn to use shadow shot if you can Backstab them….
Also, you can have infi Initiative and Stealth without the 2ini/sec trait because SA V and Blinding Powder/Black Powder. Your damage is low with this build, and a thief is nothing in a tournament if they’re not controlling the battle with the single target nukes. Try 25/30/15/0/0

I don’t think it needs improvements, it’s fine how it is. What we need to do make f2-4 our Deception skills, and add new utilities because most are useless for our currently viable specs.

They run GC because they think you have to be full glass to deal damage. Like Volrath said, they can help take down bunkers in tPvP. Though, they would surely die if not positioned correctly in a team fight due to AoE.

When you say you watch high tier PvP, what do you mean and who?

If you want a build with great damage and survivability to take down bunkers:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1p.h2.a.1p.0|5.1g.h4|1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1.1g.a1|1i.61.1i.61.1n.61.1n.61.1n.61.1i.61|p39.u68c.f5.0.0|39.1|57.5c.5h.5a.5u|e

Assuming you do stay up into the later hours of the night, you could visit BitCloud1’s stream where we have a plethora of information and discussions regarding every class nightly. I would happily link you videos in chat. If that’s too much for you then you could just PM me here with any questions and I’ll gladly do the same, but it would be better for you to get information from multiple sources. (While listening to multiple ideas from various players.)

BitCloud1 is his twitch name, and if you go there now I’ll would answer any of your questions pre-stream.

The above is time costly and would be an impeccable amount of research that would help you in your decisions. Though, if you want a quick result I suggest this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/bemeric1/videos?view=0&flow=grid

-Iove

Everflame.1305:

Imo thieves do not need a nerf of any kind, with the sole exception of the ridiculous ability to finish someone while in stealth.

We don’t get stability to stomp people. Like most classes, or a way to block the attack like Aegis. Stealth is our stability to stomp you, sorry you died.

Also, you can still hit us while we are stealth and stop us. The thing you should be complaining about is blinds. Blinds are the best for stomping.

Michikyou.9617:

Thieves have an incredibly high crit rate due to their traits and gear they can get. Their back stab always 100% crits and with a good crit damage build you can easily do 10-15k crits,
TLDR:

Thieves are a HIT AND MISS class, you either KO the target quickly and run away like a pansy, or you go with dual pistols and use unload 100 times, then run away.

Please play my class before you say anything like that? Thanks? Thieves CAN have 100 Crit in stealth but that would mean they lost 20% damage when you are below 50% HP. The only way a single Backstab is doing that much damage is on a naked up leveled mesmer. With a certain set up the the backstab with Might stacks. Even 100% burst Thieves would have to do 3 abilities (Steal, Cloak and Dagger and then Backstab) to get to 15k-ish damage.

While a mesmer can hit one button.

It took 5 of you organizing stuns and CC? Yeah, no. Way to lie out your kitten A Thief would die to a group of decent level80s.

Also, you took 11k because you’re too Glassy yourself, just like that thief, or you’re upleveled.

You picked a small race without realizing they’d have to use tiny forks?

Let’s worry about fixing things first, but I would love to see this for you RPers. You guys never get anything cool, and that would help you. Though, it would be nice to actually have fun in this game first.

urbanevil.7145:

Incurafy.6329:

urbanevil.7145:

Im all for other thief’s getting there game on, but seriously? d/p = cheese, everyone know’s it even thief’s who run it, know it.. Good vid, but bad opponets + cheese spec = zzzzzzz.

There’s no such thing as “cheese”, get off your high horse, it’s getting old as kitten hearing people say that using a specific set or build is “cheese” and therefore shouldn’t be played.

---

Its cheese point blank tough guy, everyone (even guildee’s of mine who play it) know it’s cheese. Spam blind/stealth. No high horse here, just not a fan of gimmick’s, i would prefer skill to prevail.. Am i saying there’s no skilled d/p thiefs? absolutely not, but i knock it down a tier because, at it’s core it’s gimmicky and cheeeeeeeeeeze.. Im no better then anyone else here there or anywhere, your elitist comments prove to me who’s on the high horse here…

EDIT: I will agree the skill clicking is a serious hamper to his video/play style tho.

d/p is more engaging to play than d/d. This is due to the fact that you have to hit a single target and can chain stealth with C&D. Not worry about CDs. With d/p you have to worry when your next Blinding Powder will be up and time stealths. If you heartseeker anything while trying to stealth you die because of revealed. (After the initial stealth ofc.) The onlything ‘cheese’ about the spec is the blinds for some melee classes and the blinds are not always that great.

If you want cheese play Nightwing in the new Injustice game.

#out

Why does everyone play that for d/p? 20/30/20/0/0 gives you more damage with Scholar Runes and Hidden Killer. You should consider going for Knights/Cav Trinks full zerker top and Beryl Orbs.

This build has the Condi Removal, Toughness of your build, but it has much more damage.

Nice video btw, but I don’t like the build because it suffers. You don’t need any points in Acro to play D/P. With the build I listed you can infinite stealth just like the Acro build.