Guild Wars 2

^ Has more views than sPvP

Hickeroar.9734:

Im Not So Nice.2360:

Keira Ferland.5619:

so how did an organized tc guild get crushed by 20 commanderless FA militia with even numbers

that’s really sad

I heard 3 FA D/D zerker thieves autoattacked a 70 man TC zerg to death.

Wow TC, so embarrassing.

Nah, I was there. It was only 2 FA D/D zerker thieves, and one of them was upleveled.

[Truth]

Nabrok.9023:

Istaf.1953:

What am I looking at?

A treb firing at Cragtop from inside Citadel.

Feel free to report it, I have a feeling it’s the same guy who did it last week.

Banzel.2546:

I’m sure it wasn’t just ONE person.

I’m not too sure, they most likely built it before you capped the tower.

What am I looking at?

Terrahero.9358:

Even if it was a competitive game it still would be a bad idea. Artificially giving the wining side a boost would only reduce the likelyhood of a comeback from the losing side.

Thats like a game of football where everytime you score the other team has to play with 1 less player.

Oh you mean kinda like a snowball effect?

In my opinion they should make transfers to the lowest servers free, and block people from moving to the higher ones. People aren’t going to pay to move to a low tier server, they would however move there if it was free.

Also, while on the topic. RET is willing to move to any server that pays us 100,000 gold

Agreed, it’s easy to lose it in a big battle.

lordkrall.7241:

Istaf.1953:

That’s most likely because GvG guilds are the hardcore WvW guilds

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

Um, they are. If you think otherwise sorry you’re wrong.

[Agg], very active WvW guild, also one of the best GvG guilds in the game.

[EP], very active WvW guild, most likely the best GvG guild at the moment.

[GF], very active WvW guild, very successful GvG guild as well.

[DA] active in both WvW and GvG.

[NAGA] very active and large WvW guild, started GvGing recently.

[RET] a staple of FA that has been around for a very long time and is one of the largest WvW guilds on our server, heavily into GvG.

[RQ] newly formed on FA by Novus, who is one of the most active commanders in EB on our server. They’re into GvGing as well.

[SIC] Another WvW guild on FA, also GvGs heavily.

The whole reason most, if not all, guilds GvG in the first place is to prove what your WvW guild is capable of, that and it’s fun. Of the guilds I know of, I would say it’s safe to say at least half take part in GvG officially. Of the half that do not, most of those guilds have taken part in unofficial GvGs to test the waters. Pretty much all of FA GvGs, and I honestly cant think of a guild (besides [CL], which is a Spanish speaking guild I don’t have contact with) that does not GvG.

Look in any match-up thread. Tons of people asking for GvG’s. If Anet wants a e-sport they should build up 15v15, not 5v5.

FirstBlood.7359:

GvG zealots dominate the WvW subforums, trying to force their narrow view of the game on everyone.

That’s most likely because GvG guilds are the hardcore WvW guilds

Dual.8953:

Istaf.1953:

lordkrall.7241:

And how many percentage of the WvW community does that guild make up?
1? 0,5?
The point is that it will be more or less impossible to truthfully claim to know what the majority of the community want, since the majority will never make their voices heard. One can however assume that the majority of those that makes their voices heard are those that are unhappy.

The point is saying “Oh well, the forums don’t make up the WvW community as a whole” is a two way street. Sure, there are some people not posting here that like the buff, but, there are also people who aren’t posting and don’t like it. Besides, whats the point of even having forums if everything posted here is irrelevant, simply because not everyone is posting ?

We could be discussing strategies and making guides and stuff. This isn’t strictly a feedback forum.

But this is a feedback thread. The mods even recognized it as one.

selan.8354:

what if i like my mesmer and dont wanna be a support only class? i should have the choice no?

In ZvZ, no. Like I said everyone, or at least should be, support in a ZvZ. As for Guardians being tanky as well as support. They’re also melee and the staff only has 600 range. Same for warriors. If they weren’t also tanky they’d be pretty useless.

Not meaning do be condescending, but it sounds to me that ZvZ isn’t for you honestly. You might have more fun doing smaller havoc groups around 5-10. My guild does these pre-rally and we have people come in DPS gear/builds. Works pretty well. Spend most our time following a enemy zerg and pick people off when they get into a large fight with another zerg.

Speaking of this AoN also does this, only they use lots of bunker mesmers in a group of 10 or so. They’re really hard to deal with because of all the phantasms, and by the time you get one of them down, they’ve focused down 3 of your people.

lordkrall.7241:

And how many percentage of the WvW community does that guild make up?
1? 0,5?
The point is that it will be more or less impossible to truthfully claim to know what the majority of the community want, since the majority will never make their voices heard. One can however assume that the majority of those that makes their voices heard are those that are unhappy.

The point is saying “Oh well, the forums don’t make up the WvW community as a whole” is a two way street. Sure, there are some people not posting here that like the buff, but, there are also people who aren’t posting and don’t like it. Besides, whats the point of even having forums if everything posted here is irrelevant, simply because not everyone is posting ?

Stice.5204:

WvW shouldn’t put a premium on individual skill, that’s what sPvP is for. However, WvW should promote more organizational and strategic complexity for large teams by encouraging multiple medium sized forces instead of a single giant blob.

Well wouldn’t that be skill? The other guy is right about sitting on a AC, and how it isn’t skillful. However how your team uses them, is. I would also argue that it is individual skill. The group as a whole, generally, listens to one person for direction. While it is up to the group to execute, the commands are still coming from a individual who is basically playing real time chess. Without the commands nothing gets done. If both sides are doing this, it not only comes down to how well the commander is directing, but the individuals in the group and their execution of the commands. All of these things take skill when put to the test.

So, in my opinion, to say there isn’t skill in WvW is flat out wrong.

Stice.5204:

If you want a game type that more heavily emphasizes skill, you’re in luck because GW2 is one of the few MMORPG’s to even have one: it’s called sPvP.

To be honest sPvP, in my opinion, is boring and I don’t see why WvW players not wanting the snowball effect the buff will have means they should go there instead.

Vena.8436:

morrolan.9608:

Very good point, interesting that they realise that to some extent that have to accommodate the small scale PvP community but they completely disregard the hardcore WvW community.

Because it easy to define the PvP community.

Who the hell is the “hardcore WvW community”? Is it the PPT guilds? Is it the roaming guilds? Is it the GvG guilds? Is it the guilds who do some of all?

It was all of them until the randomized match ups. Now the PPT guilds are obsolete because theres no possible way for a server like CD to take on TC in regards to PPT. It’s not a skill gap, it’s a population gap and there’s nothing they could of done that week.

Dual.8953:

With the others, I can’t see anyone caring who has a loot buff. Only the extremely petty would care that their enemy has increased loot drop. And if that’s the case these control points are an absolute failure. A cheap novelty for karma trainers.

Depends what you consider a failure then I guess. If it promotes the smaller group stuff without causing a snowball I would consider it to be a win.

lordkrall.7241:

Istaf.1953:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

Oh, a minuscule part of the community have said something in a thread (where quite a few of the posts actually are in favor of the buff no less) is sure a good indicator about how the community as a whole feel.

The community is MUCH bigger than the forum-goers. And even by only counting forumites it is a rather small minority that have posted in that thread.

Okay I’ll bite. To my knowledge I’m the only person from RET in that thread. Yet my whole guild seems to also hate it.

That street goes both ways.

lordkrall.7241:

^ And yet the “community” is more than one group.
There are most likely just as many people that likes the stat-buff that there are people that doesn’t.
Why would the group that doesn’t have more value in their feedback? Because you agree with them?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

Dual.8953:

Istaf.1953:

Dual.8953:

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

But wouldn’t that be a good thing seeing how the middle is suppose to be for smaller fights?

Not necissarily. If the buff is good enough it could mean the strongest server could capture keeps and towers, and lock them down so hard that none of the opposition would have a hope of retaking anything the server captures. This’d make the playing field pretty much static.
The buff would become a protective shield for their bases.

Was talking about the other buffs :P

Dual.8953:

Asside from the Tower/Keep buff, no commander will care about those buff to warrant them fighting other commanders over it. The Tower/Keep buff could be argueably worse, allowing the strongest side to bunker down thier keeps to nigh untakeable.

But wouldn’t that be a good thing seeing how the middle is suppose to be for smaller fights?

selan.8354:

well this is the problem though, as mesmers would like to be more than just support. dont get me wrong, i love helping u guys out with veil, but when glam was still viable, mesmers were veiling,feedbacking,nullfielding u guys just as well, as these are all glamfields, but since the nerf, we got stripped of our dmg output next to those utilities. well staff eles are gonna get buffed in October and will be able to move a little away from water/fire/lighningfields. i would like to see something done about rangers and mesmers so we can tag too.
being support should be a choice and not the only role your class has.

Well it’s a group activity so every class plays support. The basic Guardian build is all support shouts/consecrations, and Warriors also use support shouts/banners. Not to mention, the reason ranger is considered useless is because they don’t have good support characteristics in WvW.

I’ve also never seen a guild turn away a mesmer, or say things like “I wish we had fewer mesmers” so I’am not sure what you’re getting at. Rangers on the other hand are a different story.

Better idea would be to allow people to buy them via badges.

Niim.9260:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

I must say, of all the things Devon has posted, this is the most kitten of them all.

We can choose to play a naked level two, running around as rally bait, but if someone turns off a buff you are lessening the value for your entire server and invalidating the whole point? WTF are you talking about.

QFT

I’d really like to see his reply to this.

Art.9820:

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Yup but I encourage to actually sit and start counting heads when zerging and you will notice what I meant, I’m talking about several times not only once, currently most zergs are probably composed by 50%+ of guards and warriors because right now they have an important role.

Engineers and mesmers are the least played classes within the game but we still see a lot of them running around what I’m trying to say is that meta and class popularity are two different things.

Do you remember how all zergs had A LOT of D/D eles?

I think this is one way of many in which anet can draw lines and go by to see the current state of the game.

Oh yea totally, there’s a lot of Guardians and Warriors. However I wouldn’t say the lack of Eles and Mesmers is because they’re useless. Mesmers are a necessity in WvW, In general combat their veil can make or break the opening of a engagement. Same goes for Ele with their healing, stuns and AoE damage which you simply don’t get from the heavy classes.

Our guild also did a lot of D/D eles back in the day, we still do it for fun matter of fact :P

Fastbucks.5073:

The forums here are riddled with people who don’t want any sort of change.

Wait wat? Most everyone wants changes. And most people like 90% of the changes in the new update. Most people however don’t like the match ups and the stat buff they plan to add. Which is where all the QQ is coming from.

Will I leave GW2? It’s a real possibility. I’ve already stopped spending money in the gem store and other games will fill the lack of competition in the WvW market soon

selan.8354:

which stability? mesmers have very little access to it. guardians and warriors have the best stability in the game.

Umut.5471:

Some classes don’t have enough stability options. Sure, we can make a stability/stun breaker build in order to prevent some of the ccs, but why do we need to play specifically just to deal or avoid ccs, instead of more enjoyable pvp fights with a freedom of build choice ? I mean there should be more options to enjoy zerg fights other than cc trains. Too much cc+multi target damage results in 10 second fights. Because cc=win, players feel obligated to use cc oriented builds. (also many guilds require these builds for their raids)

Some classes, like guardian, have stability that effects other people. If we’re talking 1v1, there has never been a MMO that has balanced 1v1 combat. That I’ve played at least.

Also, without CC, Melee would be pretty pointless.

Niim.9260:

Stability and stun breaks are not a magic solution given the amount of immobilize that is thrown into ability spamming, not to mention null fields and other boon stripping. Many of the CC abilities are on a shorter cool down then the stability skills, so the more drawn out the fight the more holes in your stability coverage you get.

Which is why you don’t stand in red circles or spam your stability mindlessly. As for immobilize, your team should have some form of condition cleansing. Lots of ways to do it. Personally I rarely have to worry about conditions in our teams setup, and if I do, theres always lemongrass

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Vena.8436:

Ahh if only this game had three servers fighting each other, too bad its only 1v1.

Oh wait…

For three weeks CD fought FA. During which the 3rd team was SoS, which has around the same population as CD, EB which has a slightly larger population, and TC which has way more than FA or CD.

The first two weeks FA would of always had it, the 3rd TC would.

This is a much better idea than adding a buff to spread people out.

One suggestion however. Why not, instead, make it so you can buy Dolyaks like you can siege? You could by the Dolyak from a vender at spawn, the Dolyak spawns when bought and follows the buyer, at a camp you can take supply and load it onto the Yak and then take it where ever. If the Yak gets killed you lose whatever supply is loaded onto it and have to buy another one.

UrMom.4205:

By destroyed, I meant by the points, since leagues are going to be about points and all.

When I say we didn’t destroy you I’m talking about the fights, really couldn’t give two kittens about PPT. Regardless my point is WvW wasn’t “fun” for anyone that month.

Colly.4073:

No.

Anet will add it regardless even if your poll read Yes 1% No 99%

Guess it’s time to stop using the Gem store then.

Anet, I always throw a few dollars your way, because I realize that this is a free to play MMO. I realize it takes money keeping the servers up, and coming up with content. However why would I pay you guys to ruin the reason I play GW2?

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Dear, ArenaNet,

Please add a GvG arena, separate the two game modes from one another (GvG and WvWvW), and be done with it. Win-win for everyone.

Thank you.

What the other guy said. It’s not only GvGers who don’t want the buff. It’s the general WvW population as well.

Furiousbeard.7602:

I believe it would take a high number of man hours to program the ability to turn this ability on and off. Its a great idea, but may not be in the budget or timeline for Anet.

I hope that was a troll post.

Or just use stability before they hit you with their CC, and stun breaks followed by dodging if you do get hit.

Agreed about siege though.

Hey Devon, wheres your silly comments/excuses in this thread?

Edragor.9164:

- GvGer asking in map chat others to leave the map…because some of their guildies dont get in…
- GvGers obstructing a map with their numbers without contributing in the slightest, not careing for towers, camps etc….while score goes down and down and…
- GvGers want to make our beloved WvWvW into WvW

That are my top 3 problems with those players….

Imho AN should slice a borderland into 4 own maps and put them into the Custom arenas (maybe extra rent fee in gem shop to support?) to let guilds play their 100vs100 in a really competetive way …?

When have any of those things actually happened?

Dual.8953:

What serious commander is going to care about loot when their Garrison is under attack?

If Garrison is under attack there’s loot to be had.

Tbh the only way to fix blobs is much larger maps with no WP’s aside from spawns. Which will never happen. More maps will just mean more queued maps on T1/T1.5

UrMom.4205:

My biggest gripe with the whole idea and wvw in general is the massive fail in the matchmaking system. For example the difference between the top 3 servers to the 4 server is a jump, the 4 to the 5-7ish is another large jump, then the 8-10 is another jump. Another example, CD got paired with FA for three weeks straight, the first two it was CD vs FA vs SOS and CD vs FA vs EB. In both those matchups FA completely destroyed all of us. In week three it was CD vs FA vs TC, in that matchup TC completely wrecked us AND FA. That right there really put in perspective just how far apart some of these servers are….so now they want to put us all in a league together? Hate to say this because I really love GW2 and WvW but this league thing is going to fail so incredibly hard..and i’m really really scared that it’s going to kill our server and possibly kill WvW. Why can’t the matchups be made off of the servers rank, I would much rather be paired with the same two servers each week instead of this unbalanced garbage.

As a FA player I have to say that the two weeks vs CD/SoS/EB were the most boring two weeks of WvW I’ve been a part of. I wouldn’t say we destroyed CD, as they do have a few good guilds, but not enough of them to go around. WvW basically became a karma train for FA those weeks, and I’m sure TC/JQ/BG feel the same as well at the moment.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t believe that many people are using the WvW maps to do things other than the intended uses, I believe the majority of people play WvW as intended.

Literally every WvW guild on my server also GvGs, and every server has fight clubs etc going on. TC even has a event where they all use Dolyak tonics and try to make it from south camp to north while the other servers try to kill them. This event always queues up the map for all 3 servers in minutes . To make the statement that people aren’t doing these things means you most likely ignore them or don’t want to admit they’re happening. Even outside of T1/1.5 generally what commanders care about is the fighting instead of the PPT. I think it’s safe to say the majority truly doesn’t care about the PPT war anymore, it got old.

To add, if Anets vision of WvW is sitting in towers with AC’s, they’ve made a pretty boring game mode.

Mooodster.3470:

Devon has said that wvw is not supposed to be balanced so why do you think they want it to be balanced?

While there’s simply nothing the devs can do about balancing some aspects of WvW, that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to purposely make the balance worse.

Esuni.2498:

NO to stat bonus

Yes to kills on stomp with something added to make it more attractive

Pretty much this

Shiren.9532:

They are trying to make WvW better, not foster uses of the WvW maps which work against the central goals of WvW.

If so many people are using the WvW maps to do things other than what the developers intend WvW to be, are they really pushing it in the right direction? If the goal of WvW is PPT, they’ve missed the greatest part of WvW, the open field battles.

Thrashbarg.9820:

stuff

Few problems with this. One, the best players aren’t on T1. Matter of fact they avoid T1.

PPT is only really effected by coverage. Some servers might have just as many players as other servers with coverage, but they just have more people on at prime time.

If everyone goes to T1 servers, the queues there would be even more ridiculous as well as the skill lag

Lastly, it’s possible that some servers have more people than TC, JQ, SoR and BG, but they just don’t WvW for whatever reason. I’d guess lack of commanders etc.

In my opinion the devs should look at it the other way around and try to spread out the population, not give reason to stack servers even more. This would also help the skill lag everyone hates

Johje Holan.4607:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

What is the point? Can you please tell us the thinking behind this at least?

How can you think that this will do anything but make the stronger more populated server even stronger?

This^

I’ve been saying this from the start, it only enhances the coverage war and while you claim it’s for smaller battles theres nothing stopping the zerg from going there to deal with a take over. You even give them 2mins to get there.

If you want it to be more about smaller battles you should instead change the stat buff aspect of it to to a WvW exp buff while keeping spiking downed players for points. Other wise zergs aren’t going to let the other sides have the extra stats and will instead fight there.

Zenguy.6421:

I’m beginning to wonder if part of Anet’s purpose in reintroducing the Bloodlust buff despite the very strong opposition against this, is the hope that it may divert the energy currently going into GvG back into more core WvW participation. If that’s that case, I can’t l see it working very well as it doesn’t address the reasons why GvG has split off in the first place.

But it isn’t. Agg and EP are most likely the best guilds in GvG atm. They both field 30+ in WvW all the time. It’s not like GvG guilds don’t also WvW. Hell, all GvG guilds are WvW guild that want to prove what they are capable of in the first place

Reiko.1560:

linfurong.9032:

CLASSY BG. REALLY CLASSY.

Pretty sure FA did the same to the T3 servers they stomped… you reap what you sow I guess.

No, but we did it to JQ with the help of Mag once.

All the people caring about PPT instead of the fights. It’s terrible.

Also if guilds started stacking on T2 servers like others have suggested, most of the guilds here now would leave (most likely to Mag as they’re the actual number one server in terms of skill imo.) We purposely don’t want to be in T1. This said I do like fighting T1 servers to a extent as they generally have more people to fight, assuming they’re not jumping off cliffs or porting to spawn to avoid fighting to focus on PPT.

cubed.2853:

The new area is open file combat pure or am I wrong?

From my understanding every design decision is purly taken with only the wvw mechanic in mind. Absolutly nothing else matters here. I think they made that pretty clear – more than once.

A lot of people still don’t want buffs like this in WvW regardless of how it effects GvG. Believe it or not some people (like roamers) don’t want it because it gives them a unfair advantage. Crazy isn’t it, people want fair fights.

I don’t want anything that effects gameplay directly like that. That kind of stuff tends to be more annoying than anything.

In my opinion, the only way the can fix the zerg problem is to scrap the borderlands. The maps are just too small and people can travel too fast. To get rid of zerging, they have to make it more effective to not zerg, which as things are now, is the most effective way 90% of the time.

This however will most likely never happen, and to be honest I don’t think zergs are a problem. It’s just how some people want to play. People like large battles and no matter what they do people will do it. They should instead embrace the way things are and work around them and not stir the pot so much.

Bleed.7052:

I have nothing against GvG, but it sickens me that you guys are trying to calibrate WvW around GvG instead of just continuing to ask for a GvG mode(Which will eventually happen ), i know you have been asking for this for months, but things are getting the good way, slowly, but they do, so expect GvG and stop trying to speak for all the WvW population :/

Not really. People are asking for a GvG arena, and even without GvG the buff is a bad idea because it enhances the coverage war. Which in my opinion, is a worse problem than the zerg problem they claim this will fix

DrWhom.3105:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Can we have some kind of answer as to why the game needs another snowball mechanic that favors the server with a population advantage?

Please just swap the Outmanned and Bloodlust buffs, something like:
Outmanned:
No armor damage, +150 to pow/pre/etc
Bloodlust:
+20% MF, +20% XP and +20% WXP (for each 3/5 held). Keep the stomps = points part.

Everyone wins.

^ much better idea.