what? i mean why isn’t that all the power rotations in pve revolve around CoR? Because it is not that high dps. Yeah you might see big numbers but things like rapid fire, 100blades and such it for more. You need to be at exactly 1000-1200 to hit that high and is easily sidestepped.
But hey let’s make it like that (numbers are an example): atm it hits 500 first part, 1000 second and 1500 third. If you wish we can make it hit 1000 at any distance. I’d would still be happy
The fact that the damage of an aoe, 1200 range, 2s CD skill is even comparable to a channeled melee stationary skill shows how ridiculous it is.
How many times now has A.net tried to add buffs to a WvW BL? Every time its been poorly received. In the Alpine BL, the ruin buff was despised and eventually nerfed. In EOTM, they discourage fighting and are part of the reason it devolved into the karma train. Now, I just heard in the team chat of the Desert BL I – “We can’t fight them. They have buffs.”
Please don’t give us buffs that affect our individual characters. Rethink ways to encourage people to complete objectives. I don’t want myself to be buffed above the people I’m fighting. That just ruins any semblance of challenge in WvW combat.
Fast Hands should 100% be baseline. As it is now if forces you into the traitline for any viable build killing build variety. I’d say 5s weapon swap should be consider a core ability and class differentiator for Warriors.
The fact that shoutbow is viable just shows how bad of a state warriors are in right now. The problem still stems from how op celestial is and any build that takes advantage of all the stats celestial provides will have an unfair advantage.
GW2 Devs must takes the holidays Breaks (Christmass + Summer) = that means -3 less contents months
Lol no. First of all this isn’t high-school they don’t get Summer off and probably only get a couple days off for Christmas. Second, there would only be a few days a year where the company is shut down. Any other individual vacations would be planned in a way that work can still get done.
Having 5v5 at the moment when each player has 10+ skills to use at one set time, each doing different things, and keep track of everything going on. Now make that a 10v10 and its a a cluster kitten where anyone who is new has absolutely no idea what is going on and it doesn’t attract new players at all. its counter intuitive to gaining customers.
Plenty of MMOs with far more skills and abilities per person have had 10-20 player pvp maps.
If anything, larger scale pvp is more noob friendly because each person doesn’t make up as large of a percent of the team.
Including OP’s guild, because there’s rampant elitism in the scene and they’re too good to muck about with the slightly-lower-skill guilds, which, you know, is always good for competition
Also, this thread getting moved to the PvP forum is just hysterical
That’s not fair and elitism isn’t the attitude any GvGer has towards lower tier guilds. It’s simply that it’s not fun without competition and gamer’s in general don’t and shouldn’t be expected to stick around when it stops being fun. Those guilds and players that quit still love GvG but mainly got frustrated by the lack of support from A.net which caused the current issues.
I have watched enough gvgs to understand that a lot of the game play is really brainless in comparison to spvp. Waiting on some guy yelling in TS to tell you when to throw down wells or deliver hammer stuns isn’t something I consider an art form like knowing when to lay down a cc combo.
This is how pug blobs in WvW work, not how any of the best GvG guilds have worked. The driver is a beacon for the rough positioning of the group and a safe place to regroup. Melee are expected to stay fairly tight to tag but even individual melee take opportunities they see by reading the situation. It’s very rare for a driver to call skills, or well bombs, or anything specific like that.
Disappointed that this thread was moved to this forum. It’s already starting to turn into a mix of “YOUR GVGS NOT TRUEEEEE GVGGGG!!!!!!” and “That thing I’ve never tried and admit i don’t understand is bad”.
Note that ArenaNet, being a business, will only be interested in ideas that will be able to be monetized and will be cost effective. This does not demonize them, they didn’t create Guild Wars 2 just for funsies. Keep this in mind during our productive discussion.
I’m kind of confused at what people mean by able to be monetized. How are PvE, sPvP, or WvW monetized individually? The whole game is monetized by sales of the game and by gemshop purchases that are mostly cosmetics that work equally in PvE, sPvP, or WvW. Arena.net needs to make a game that people want to play in order to monetize it. Simple as that.
Following what Endur said, I’d say this is the list of what could be done in order of simplest to ideal dreamworld.
1) Make the OS work similar to EOTM allowing guilds to fight cross tier.
2) Implement an area similar to the OS arena that can be privately accessed and controlled to avoid outside interference during GvGs. Perhaps tied into the guild housing system.
3) Tweak WvW to better support multiple small scale groups rather than pug monoblobs. Encourage GvG style fighting on the WvW maps.
4) Implement an entire GvG game mode with 15-20 players with varied modes, maps, and rules.
I agree with Sabull about WvW, but changes to WvW are not going to fix another main reason why GvG came to be. The ability to fight other groups of identical numbers without interference from other players/ guilds. To have strict group compositions without randoms to rallybot. Put 3 servers with 5 guilds of 20 players each on one map and its going to get crowded quick.
I completely disagree with blaming the community for the failures of GvG. It is entirely 100% due to the lack of support from Arena.net. The lack of balancing(literally no one likes the current Pirate Ship Meta), The lack of cross-tier GvGing, The lack of incentives and rewards. I’ve seen amazing people successfully train and improve lower level guilds. But it’s not something that should fairly be expected by anyone. We’re hear to play a game and have fun. It is up to Arena.net to foster a community and make the game fun and competitive for us.
Most productive GvG thread I’ve ever seen. Some of my thoughts.
1) This has been said before in this thread. I don’t think most GvG’rs are asking for strictly a Team Deathmatch. There’s lots of potential for many interesting game modes for large scale PvP. There’s so many classic game modes like CTF, Conquest, GW1 style GvG, etc. that would be immensely fun at a larger scale with GW2s combat system. Variety and a lack of NPCs are the most important things.
2) It doesn’t have to be an e-sport, it just has to be fun. Yes, a 15-20 man GvG would be difficult to hold official events for. What benefit does a game being an e-sport really bring to the non-professional players? Many other MMOs and many games have had successful organized PvP gamemodes that never were and were never intended to be e-sports.
If A.net were to respond, an official GvG game mode with multiple modes would obviously be a long way off. At very least give us some show of support. Allow the Obsidian Sanctum arena to work similar to EOTM.
Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.
This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.
LoL more difficult, let’s take ‘positioning’ as you mention that, positioning is a joke in “GvG”, melee don’t have to make any real decisions on positioning at all, the driver does it for them, it is brainless, which is why you have the QQ over driver sniping, you kill the brain and well…
You’re literally just wrong. It’s clear you’re talking about something you have no experience with. Good melee make plays, harass casters, peel for their own casters, adjust their position to avoid damage, and more all on a personal level. In our current NA meta where you can get blown up faster than you can blink, you can’t wait for your driver to tell you what to do. Get a clue.
Obsidian Sanctum was edited to include “an arena for GvGs.”
For a while after this was released, this distracted a lot of players from the actual puzzle and many players would just harbor in that new arena. Then when “GvGs” died down people started using it for dueling (something that was easily done in the puzzle anyway before the arena was added). And then ArenaNet added custom arenas in sPvP to the game and people go there to duel now. So in essence this update was pointless, and it is as dead as the rest of the map it helped kill.
At the moment in T2 NA, it’s a struggle to find a time-slot that the OS arena isn’t being used. We’ve been having to switch off with other guilds nightly.
A little off topic but I feel like -condi food/duration also has had a negative effect on group vs group fights as well. It seems like it is becoming increasing prevalent that guilds are moving away for soldiers/troopers runes and relying on melandru runes/lemongrass/purging flames/dogged march to take care of conditions.
1) Stability uptime between guardians and warriors is very high so hard CCs are already very ineffective. With -98% condition duration condition CCs are nearly immune as well. This lowers some of the already very low individual skill required with well placed and timed CCs. CC becomes pointless when every stun/line/ring is run through with impunity and immobilizes fall off without the player having to even press a button.
2) Having to use cleanses at an appropriate time for you and your party was at least a somewhat engaging part of gameplay. Just having conditions melt off instantly further lowers that individual skill required.
EOTM was the real nail in the coffin. It was what most of us hoped would revitalize and add something new to WvW but it ended up being a PvEers K-Training wet dream. Considering its was the only real major WvW development in the past 1.5+ years who knows when we’ll see something else.
I’ve also been seeing uncharacteristically high latency with my Verizon FIOS. I’m usually sub 100ms but am now locked at 250ms at all times.
Tracing route to 64.25.40.121 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms unknown [192.168.1.1]
2 3 ms 4 ms 4 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-134.verizon-gni.net [96.250.25
1.1]
3 8 ms 14 ms 6 ms G1-5-0-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.1
90.56]
4 5 ms 6 ms 4 ms ae5-0.NY325-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.163.
208]
5 44 ms 44 ms 43 ms 0.ae2.XT3.DFW9.ALTER.NET [140.222.225.55]
6 44 ms 44 ms 43 ms GigabitEthernet4-0-0.GW12.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63
.97.86]
7 43 ms 44 ms 44 ms 65.205.119.210
8 44 ms 44 ms 44 ms 64.25.32.9
9 44 ms 47 ms 45 ms 64.25.32.26
10 51 ms 49 ms 46 ms 64.25.32.82
11 45 ms 44 ms 44 ms 64.25.40.121
Please understand I am referring to the 2 guilds that repeatedly ran us over for just watching. Not wanting to get an infraction I used SBI instead of those specific guild names, we’re not so petty as to hold you all responsible for the actions of those 2.
Some of your server mates were trolling(even spike building ballistas during matches) the GvG and quickly returning to the crowd. Our intention was to wipe the trolls. If you got caught in the crossfire then it was an accident. Sorry.
For the 50th time the GvG critics are ignoring that most guild involved in them do more for WvW on their server than any group of randoms. The guild in this video is a huge part of the WvW community on our server and we only resorted to GvG because A.net keeps giving us blow out matches. It was only on Thursday after karma training every map(hence the +580 at the top of the screen) that we first did a semi-organized completely casual GvG. And when we did it we didn’t deserve to be told off by an Anet tagged player.
Bunch of whining kids who think they are entitled to everything , nothing has changed. G v G ruins wvw for others and the spots taken by the guilds couldve been used by others to attack the enemies cohesively.
Exactly.
I don’t see what the dev did wrong, you ARE ruining his game mode. Players there should be there for wvw. Its one thing to play the game how you want, and another thing to deprive other players the opportunity to play the game as it was intended.
Look at the score tick. Arena.net already deprived players the opportunity to play the game as it was intended by giving them a matchup that was decided the second it was rolled.
Seriously you GvG guys are getting kitten annoying lately. You are constantly crying in
every stream, every third forum post, every post about bloodlust and now you can’t
handle an A-Net Dev who simply was standing around you and was watching you?
And all that for something you should have known prior to the game that it won’t
be included any time soon. Shouldn’t you try and polish your own image a little?
If this keeps on, GvG might really become a banable offense, and I doubt you would
like that, but this way I can imagine that the devs are fed up with this scene.
Emergent gameplay used to be the holy grail of MMO design. Now you can only visit the themepark and ride the rides exactly as the creators intend. Sad really.
Most arguments for/against bloodlust focus on GvG. I run in a WvWvW guild that can field 30+ people. Organized GvG is not our main activity. A seperate battleground for GvG won’t help us. We want to play WvWvW together in our group. Our definition of fun is roaming the battlefield, knocking on keeps, and getting into good large scale fights usually against opposing guilds(I thought that was the point of WvWvW.) We don’t want to split up to hold capture points. We don’t want a stat buff. We want fights to be fair.
Just tonight we came upon a good guild who we really respect. We would never give up the chance to fight them and many times lose. But then we saw that they had +150 stats. This ruined our enthusiasm and turned a hard fight into something nearly impossible.
When the situation changes and we have plus 100/150 it invalidates our victory. Not only do we have an unfair advantage it will be invalidated by the enemy who will undoubtedly proclaim “They only won because of bloodlust.”
I wish I had an easy way to show you that everything you list as “skillful” play is actually happening in GvG, at least in the most experienced and “top” guilds.
There are parties dedicated solely for target calling for focus fire.
The raid leader makes the calls for clutch spikes.
The entire momentum and movement of the fight involves rezzing – whether someone is in the position for a banner, or whether you can move the melee to “claim” the ground where either your downed are, or the enemy’s downed are.
The builds are not as important in these fights as the teamwork and cohesion is. Take 20 random guys and give them “GvG” builds and I can guarantee they’ll achieve nothing if they don’t know how to play together. Just because the game’s graphics make it hard as kitten to see what’s going on, doesn’t mean the plays aren’t there.
Regarding the new map areas, I agree that they’re extremely fun for fighting and just tonight I was involved in plenty of small-scale roaming which developed into duels standing around one of the capture points with gathering spectators from all 3 servers. The problem with this is that I purposely left food and other buffs off to try and balance that I sometimes had bloodlust while those I was fighting didn’t.
What you need to understand is that my guild will not have much fun doing as you suggested with splitting up and trying to hold points. We are not here for conquest. We are here for deathmatch. We want to run as a guild, participating in large scale fights. Our members do plenty of sPvP, tPvP, private duelling, or WvW roaming for other needs, but our love for the large-scale is under threat.
We strive for competition and successes to be proud of. While enemies having the buff may be mildly annoying, it at least poses us with a greater challenge. However I personally do not want to see my guild running around with +150 to all stats. We never asked for this “helping hand”.
We don’t support the bloodlust buff and we sure as hell don’t want to dedicate our time in WvW to holding these points for it. The reward of breaking into a keep is the enormous fight you may get inside. There is no reward to holding bloodlust, other than feeling cheap and overpowered with an unfair advantage.
Great post and my exact feelings. The buff sucks even if its your team who has it. Any fight you win with the buff will be invalidated because of the unfair advantage and by the enemy who will undoubtedly proclaim “They only won because of bloodlust.”
Go Troll elsewhere. The first thing you do in your post is claim GvG doesn’t require tactics and skill. Obviously that’s wrong. If my guild did a GvG with the same classes and traits as Red Guard I’m positive we would get rolled because we aren’t near their level of skill.
Ignoring organized GvG for a second and focus on just WvWvW guilds. We want to play WvWvW together in a group with our guild. We don’t want to split up, big epic fights is the whole point of WvWvW. We don’t want to play on a different map. When we come upon a fight we want them to be fair.
Just tonight my guild group came upon a great guild that we really respect. We would never turn down a chance to fight them and likely lose. But instead we see that that have +150 stats currently. That killed our enthusiasm to fight them and basically ruined our raid night.
