Guild Wars 2

to be honest this is the real issue. not eles. Every cele based pvp build is broken.

Exactly as title describes. Happened to me many times now. Random individual disconnects are usual due to peoples internet, however when the entire team or 4/5 of your team disconnects at the same time it is not us.

Please fix

Thanks!

Still having issues! Please help devs!

but guise i want #pvesports

:<

the hope is that Guild Halls will give a place to tdm gvg 15v15/20v20

Stephen ClarkeWillson.1802:

Pretty interesting. I just watched a zerg fest in t5 and I had no skill lag. But players chatting with me who were closer to the battle said they had skill lag. They said I need to get into the battle to experience it. I would, but I die in 2 seconds. The big difference between me and those in the battle is the amount of data being reported- closer to battle means more data sent to client so it knows what to draw. Hmm. Interesting.

This requires looking at a whole new set of perf graphs.

Thank you for looking into the skill lag problem! Really appreciate it. =)

This OP speaks the truth.

Thank you

Elephant in the Room: When “orbs” return to the game, stat buffs will destroy the gvg scene as we know it.

So…what are we going to do about that?

DevonCarver.5370:

Are the orbs coming back? No. Are we bringing back the buff? Yes, although the way you get it and hold it is going to be drastically different. Are you going to see a major map change in concert with this? Yes. Is it coming soon? Most definitely.

~edited for accuracy and to add quote~

I’m getting the same lag that i had during raid times in wvw, in pve and pvp as well.

-Removing all siege from game with exception to rams and catas
-Towers and Keeps, gate and wall health reduced
-New map, w/ multiple king of the hill objectives with 40 player cap per side per objective
-transfer costs based on wvw population based on queue times and coverage
-skill lag eliminated
-server side networking and routing issues eliminated
-server matchups are reset every 6 hours, eliminating all notions of coverage and night/day capping
-PvE mobs removed
-all guards and champions removed
-private guild raid commander tags unable to be seen by non-guildies added
-15v15/20v20 guild vs. guild added w/ a ranked ladder and both a ranked and unranked queue system resetting entirely every 3 months, ranked gvg matches can be spectated publicly game wide (sound familiar anybody?) Unranked matchups are based on ranked mmr, private gvg arenas for tournaments and scrimmages also added
-increased monetary rewards on kill/loot
-the cooldown on heal for food with 66% chance to heal on crit is removed
-Non level 80 characters barred from playing in the borderlands, eternal battlegrounds is fine

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Danielle.3152:

The real question here is why would anyone care about the WvW mechanics:

Trebs, boring, check
Arrow carts, boring, check
Being stationary and getting stuff upgraded, boring, check
Escorting dolyaks, boring, check
Winning being about coverage and nightcapping rather than skill, boring, check
0 rewards or “e-fame” due to winning matchup due to above, boring, check
.

Yes but there are other games that center around purely fighting. GW2 WvW is not one of them currently. Do I wish there was some kind of mode focused on large fights? Yes, yes I do. (Hint hint Anet, guild battles)

Also what must be considered is that many guilds and servers build based around the mechanics of WvW. To sustain. RG builds to kill quick in open field.

You have one thing major thing wrong. Probably because you have an NA bias. But since I’ve played on both sides, I can say this: NA servers play more for points. EU servers play more for the fights. Of course there are exceptions on both sides, but generally there are more EU guilds that enjoy combat a lot more than NA.

And for the record, the servers I have been on:
(NA): Yaks Bend, Sea of Sorrows, Blackgate, Sanctum of Rall
(EU): Desolation, Ruins of Surmia, Augury Rock

Congratulations!

watched it on stream =)

haha

i remember when they added RNG to matchups. They added it in about an hour into EU reset, so we were already playing our matchup and all of a sudden people from random servers appeared into random borderlands. And then after 15 minutes of madness, they kicked everyone out and reset the matchups again.

Danielle.3152:

Nothing to do except attack keeps and hope someone turns up to defend with when you have a group of 25-30 in this tier. Most organised groups are like 5-10 ppl here. Worst random roll ever. Don’t think we can take this for 7 days.

the race for who can queue into ebg first has begun

Sacrx.6721:

How is US t1 now?. Any guilds actually running in 20-30 man or is it all on 1 commander 24/7 60-100 man blobs all week?. Making usual excuse for being bad its not gvg its wvw… From reading first few pages seems fair few guilds interested in some GvG. How are the EU hours?. How is the lag etc?.

baruch bay guilds still look more interesting =P

woohoo one more week

breaking up our open field/gvg tier =(

matchups not changing tomorrow! \o/

Much love all around

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Update-on-new-matchups

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of using remote intelligence to place siege.

Oh yeah, one blob here flash building 5 ACs, and this blob over here flash building 6 ACs, aw yeah, 6 AC blob beats 5 AC blob, wooohooo soooo much fun pressing dat 1 button isn’t it?

No need to take advantage of buffs or conditions and combat such as might, retal, protection, speed, regen, immobilize, bleed, stun, etc. No need for combat movement strategies. All we need is poison and a 2.5k+ damage tick with a stupid large aoe cap.

inb4 someone claims my guild is the only guild complaining versus the entire wvw population!

Mooodster.3470:

i would just like to point out that i am not sure how the euro servers work but paying for guilds to transfer is something quite common in t1-t2 na servers….so let me ask you this…do u think having the some great guilds(madder of opinion) transfer to your server cause they where bought and payed to do exactly that thing as a coincidence?

i don’t really like the range and the fact you can do the whole 3 screen thing but anti infantry is well supposed to cause a big headache to infantry so i do agree with the damage. thank you Anet for including all aspects of siege in siege warfare

There may be a culture clash. As a former member of Yaks Bend, Sea of Sorrows and Blackgate, NA servers tend to play more for ppt, points, scoreboard, etc. While European servers are more focused on fights, fighting over objectives, and seeing points and ppt as a reflection of it.

Guilds in Europe move around to fight one another. From what I’ve seen (t1,t3,t7), there is not as much of a coverage game as there is in NA. Instead of seeing different timezones as coverage patterns, there is daycapping, Russian prime (overlaps SEA and early EU), general European prime, Spanish prime (overlapping eu and early na), and nightcapping. Prime times mean that there are guilds actively raiding in organized groups.

PvP in general is taken a lot more seriously in Europe. Reasons are unknown to me, but
Judging from heart of the mists population density, there are way many more people within spvp here than when I was in NA. Perhaps that type of gameplay mindset was carried into wvw. That’s only a theory of mine.

Tldr; since wvw in eu is not as focused as NA in gaining points due to it not being as much of a coverage game, helping other guilds transfer to your server with gold does not happen as often

The weirdest thing for me, is that for the past two nights, it’s massive rubber banding in one map only. Always Augury Rock Borderlands, and the rest of my guild has absolutely no issues. Every other WvW map, pve, heart of the mists was 100% fine with little to no lag. However on AR bl, I was lagging so hard, things guildies were calling out happening would happen 1-3 minutes after on my screen, followed by insane rubber banding on my end as the game attempted to sync.

This is before and after reset. We were blue yesterday and red today, but the only map I has issues in the entire game was Augury Rock bl.

genowefapigwa.5769:

Jackie.1829:

Not sure what guild this player is from, but what is the point in pming me with:
http://i.imgur.com/b4leQ0B.jpg

When you do this:
http://i.imgur.com/WTAM6by.jpg

I did not know 3 guild groups vs 1 is pugs vs votf. Is this the legendary “we roam as solo guilds” that I heard about for this tier? sigh. Im not even annoyed about it, it was their keep so they have the right to defend it, but I am not sure in what world that is a bunch of pugs, when 3 separate guild entities coordinate a push against us in multiple waves.

Next time use bigger blob or more balistas and aarow carts. If you are going to cry go back to your cave.

Don’t think he’s crying, more like pointing out someone’s an idiot =P

i think you need to do at least 1 or more of the following

1) get on your server’s VoIP
2) find a guild to join, or leave and find a new one
3) if none of the above 2, find a different commander to follow
4) youtube search any guild wars 2 gvgs

theres actually alot more going on than you think, and if all you are seeing is 2 sides of millions of pugs derping, and standing around you are doing something wrong and have not seen enough of the game.

and here’s my shameless plug to help you find a decent gvg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsdlBjm79dQ

Is there a way to do a different time/date?

Noon PST is 1 hour into EU reset tomorrow 5/10

EnemyCrusher.7324:

rmBossa.4621:

WvW is inside of a game called GuildWars bro..

And the games are named after a series of events in the lore, not a type of PvP. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_vs_guild

weird, has no mention of lore anywhere

silly PvErs sighhhh, well I guess WvW is technically considered part of PvE

good bye pvp in wvw, it was fun while it lasted! Hopefully there will be a game that has a sweet combat system and a fresh step away from the holy trinity like this game had in a large scale pvp combat arena soon. Meanwhile, the fights shall be missed!

Does this map have large amounts of flat ground thats out of the way, where we can have fair 25v25 GvGs or will it be extremely terrained like the current EB JP?

I’d be extremely disappointed if it had too much terrain where guilds cannot fight

Hi,

I just want to warn you. I am a US based (East Coast) player who currently plays on European servers. In my personal experience, for the time slots that you mentioned, there are very few organized guilds to play with and to play against. It is the time zone known as “nightcapping” here as playing in EU is not really a coverage game. Yes, there are people online and in WvW following commanders and on community teamspeaks and such, but in general it is not organized guild raids fighting other organized guild raids. EU is a great place to come if you are looking for group synergy play, but the timezones you play should be a huge contributing decision making factor here.

I can only speak for my personal experience. It may be different in other tiers and servers I have not played in.

I hope this helps.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

In the end, it’s WvW, not GvG, and you shouldn’t risk putting a queue on a map unless you’re actually contributing to the score. That’s not to say I haven’t spent some time on GvG here and there, but…yeah. If you want fights, go out and find them.

Besides, “GvG” shouldn’t be 10+. We all know what that starts to turn into, and you can play 5-10 vs 5-10 in sPvP.

uh what?

No…

watch the videos i linked earlier

if you aren’t going to contribute to anything, then don’t

we aren’t asking to queue maps. We want a clean environment that has nothing to do with queueing wvw maps where we can have organized fights.

people, please read before posting -.-

I found:

Velocity [VcY] vs Nugos [Nug]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTH6hYMX5g

War Legends [WL] vs Za Drots [ZDs]: (Full Raw Footage)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi_2h3uZA48

The Rise [Rise] vs Golden Horde [GH]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsUGci9skRo

[Unit] vs [HuP]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IixFfKKXosU

Za Drots [ZDs] vs Seven Instincts [siN]: (Pre-Culling removal)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWhKfhvJL_U

A good 15- 20 minutes of youtube searching =P

Theres plenty of other videos out there that I haven’t mentioned.
Just wanted to give a picture of the amounts of guilds that enjoy it!

Loken.9724:

Sorry, I just went with the first 3 I could find.

No worries, your post was more than enough! Just want Arenanet to know how many we are and how much we all love a good fight

If there are other guilds who would like to post their GvG videos, please do.

I know there are dozens of other guilds that love to fight and GvG as much as the 6 guilds listed in the above post!

We all enjoy watching a good fight =)

DevonCarver.5370:

To be a little clearer. The fixes to arrow carts will be coming quickly. We are already putting those in and testing them. Those should bring them more in line with what we expect them to be.

I feel like this alludes to reducing the damage and/or range arrow carts do to siege, but keeping the damage up on players. Perhaps not, and maybe I’m wrong.

Thanks for at least responding to us.

Please give us gvg (25v25). If the devs feel like wvw should be more siege wars, the pvp guilds need a place to fight

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally created, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Finally, the feedback you all provide is a very useful part of this whole process. WvW is a living, breathing game type and any changes we make have numerous consequences that don’t become fully visible until everyone starts interacting with them and devising new strategies. Our goal is to provide a complex combat space that rewards skill, tactics, and ingenuity and while we haven’t fully achieved that goal yet, I like to think we are getting there.

And thus, destroy open field large scale pvp combat

ex) GvG
open field
keep fights

10v10
20v20
25v25
30v30
40v40
even fighting higher numbers
20v50
30v80

I’m sad to see this happen.

Since this is what the devs believe, the skirmish pvp guilds will probably be exiting this game soon.

Have fun with your pvsiege guys

Reann.9480:

I feel fairly certain in saying that the guilds, which might not be as “pro” as seems to be the requirement in this thread, in Piken Square are all hating this change.

Forcing everyone to blob up to do hours of boring siege warfare, requiring skill or not, is no fun to the small-med guilds running around the field in Piken used to taking on the odds.

Theres no requirement for anything to post in this thread. Only that you play guild wars 2

and hopefully wvw… =P

Reason why I and a few other mentioned “guilds” not liking the change is because guilds are groups of players that represent a large majority of the wvw player base that plays the game many days of the week if not every day.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Lance.5892:

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff.

Thats strange because out of all the guilds i’m in contact with none of them dislike the ac buff, they see it more of a challenge. Oh and those guilds are all the “top” guilds currently playing, except VoTF who seem to have a major hate campaign going for this buff. Maybe it’s you guys that need to learn how to play and not pretend you’re the spokespeople for all guilds, seeing as most think you’re a joke(moreso after seeing all you’ve written here this last week).

Well, I can’t speak for what you’ve heard, but the people who’ve talked to me seem to have a strong belief that the ACs are overpowered and that ANET will eventually reverse it. I for one don’t share that belief that ANET cares enough to reverse it. But that’s a personal opinion of mine.

Heijincks.9267:

I honestly hate to simply say “too bad”. That said, WvW is still in the middle of a transition. New strategies might develop that may allow large scale fights without the interference of arrow carts. A well coordinated group away from objectives can spot ex situ arrow carts and destroy them before they’re even built for example.

Additionally, I don’t think WvW changes will stop at arrow carts. I don’t think Anet would want WvW to degenerate into a static siege warfare alone given that the former arrow carts were nerfed from their original strength.

Thank you for at least reading and attempting to understand our point of view. I can’t even begin to tell you how frustrating it has been trying to explain this to many others who haven’t bothered reading or tried to see it from our point of view. Especially when we’re called names of things we don’t do or try to promote. It gives me a little bit of hope for the internet community =P. Someone actually read what I wrote!

Heijincks.9267:

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of tier 1-2 guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

It definitely is a shaking change; there’s no denying that. It’s the reason why I understand why there is so much dissent. Humans have this psychological resistance to change, it’s innate and can’t be helped.

That said, I can’t tell anyone what they can like or dislike, so at best I can only voice my own opinion on the matter and why I have it. However, even amongst the greatest of dissenters, should they choose to stay, they all eventually adapt to it no matter how much they hated it at first.

It’s a general trend I’ve noticed. It even occurs at even greater scenarios such as the passing of a new law.

Thing is, for guilds that are focused on large scale pvp combat, there isn’t much pathway for us to adapt. There are a few factors why:
- It now takes an extreme amount of effort and time to get into said objective to have a fight over the objective for our pvp
-People on both sides are just dropping arrowcarts mid battle field to kill each other

To the first point, as we get bored and tired of trying to get into an objective to get our one big fight of the night (based on a few reports that it took 2.5+ hours to get into an objective) instead of several a night like before, more and more skirmish guilds will lose players to other games or IRL since they don’t play to sit and siege a keep for 2.5 hours for a 10 minute fight.

To the second point,
Obviously, it’s wvw, so there is siege. We can accept that. But, we as a pvp community aren’t here to fight siege. We’re here to fight people. That is the core of what pvp is.

There may be other points and reasons I haven’t stated, but that is why we see this as game breaking. Because the game for us is the larger scale skirmishes (from 10v10 up to 40v40). It is the reason that keeps us playing the game. Spvp does not accomodate it (anything higher than 10v10), and Arenanet won’t give us GvG. Thus, WvW has been our only option.

This is why many people see this as a bad patch. Because they won’t get their adrenaline filled fast paced fights as much as it used to be anymore.

And thus, my question is: where do we get our fights? Very few other games support a beautiful combat system that GW2 provides that allows for highly coordinated team fights on a large scale.

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

edit: that’s just the people I’ve talked to. I can’t account for those that I haven’t

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds.

There’s those bully tactics again…

Except there are plenty non VoTF who have posted here as well who also want a response from ANET. So I guess we are a community filled of bullies!

Jackie.1829:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

I endorse what they did as well. In fact, I was on comms laughing with them while they did it. We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds. I am sorry I adversely effected your web browsing for the night. Except I couldnt care less.

I’ll be honest. I thought it was hillarious as well. But either way, it won’t change how I act, what I’ve posted, what I will post, or my opinions.

Sacrx.6721:

Just remove all heals and armor.

might as well remove weapons and skills too!

all i need is my wall, trusty superior arrow cart, and wxp arrow cart mastery rank!

Vena.8436:

Lance.5892:

except the treb will be destroyed by 3rd floor sm trebs before it can even fire one shot

Aneu.1748:

You do understand there is a place to plant a Treb on the 3rd floor of SM that is impossible to hit right? Which has a higher vantage point that can hit any treb in range of those arrowcarts…

Except that is nonsense as that treb cannot possibly cover every direction, nor are there a hundred trebs to cover every possible direction, and there are about an infinite number of angles from which you can be attacked with trebs to take out your arrow carts.

Flash build a treb already aimed where it needs to be aimed and fire it, even if you only get off one or two shots, the damage is already done. (Likely, given the slow rotating speed of treb, you’ll get more than just two shots off and thats more than enough for a pile of arrow carts.)

while true, how often is it that trebs hit exactly where we want them to hit on the first try?

Heijincks.9267:

Aneu.1748:

Im still concerned with people overlooking this…

I just manged to plant 31 arrowcarts on the north gate of SM. 15 on the ramparts 10 below and 6 on the third tier. All were able to hit the gate where they were placed.

Note: Just because they arent built doesnt mean they cannot be built. The siege limit was not hit due to AC’s now being able to hit for 3500 range while the siege limit range is per 1000(or there about). Im fairly certain I could place more on the upper tier where the Cannon is also that can hit. (edit: I just placed 6)

Rampart – 15 AC – http://i.imgur.com/eG0HJVS.jpg
Below – 10 AC – http://i.imgur.com/aWN3vWT.jpg
3rd Tier – 6 AC – http://i.imgur.com/3kzw56n.jpg

THIS IS WHAT WE WANT!

The close proximities of those arrow carts make it easy for a treb to just destroy them all quickly. Plus that treb can be built at a relatively safe location, given where these arrow carts are being built.

What a waste of supplies.

except the treb will be destroyed by 3rd floor sm trebs before it can even fire one shot

Vena.8436:

Lance.5892:

take a look at eu scores in T1
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU
Tier 1 Desolation

with T2 servers purposely avoiding T1, how much of that + the arrowcart patch could you take? Especially when an entire server (Vizuna) was already known for sitting in towers/keeps and manning 50 million arrow carts

Note that it’s been happening for quite a long while.

Given the absolutely juvenille nature that your members are going on about, at this very moment, spamming the forum…

…Its as if you wanted your opinion to look childish/worse off or something with these antics.

Not up to me how my fellow guildies are behaving. I haven’t done any trolling or joking around thus far. I’ve given thought out responses of my own opinion, and if you don’t like it, that’s fine with me.

The Rooster.2615:

Caliban.3176:

I just saw a post (that has already been censored by the lortnoc egamad team of Anet) saying that IRON is quitting, partly due to this kitten up.

That is a sad, sad thing. They were an awesome guild. They would do fun stuff to troll the frenchies (le iron blob) but they were mainly a capable guild that pulled of some really impressive stuff. They were one of the main forces behind a server that stayed in T1 for a very long time. This is sad, very sad.

I hope you guys respect this and don’t start posting things like AC beat the blobs and zerglings because if you had ever run against or with IRON you would know better than that. I have done both and know for a fact that the entire WvW community is the loser in this scenario.

I suspect that IRON has other reasons for quitting. Any guild that claims to be decent at WvW will adapt their tactics and change with the game.

take a look at eu scores in T1
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU
Tier 1 Desolation

with T2 servers purposely avoiding T1, how much of that + the arrowcart patch could you take? Especially when an entire server (Vizuna) was already known for sitting in towers/keeps and manning 50 million arrow carts

Note that it’s been happening for quite a long while

FractalChaos.6539:

Caliban.3176:

FractalChaos.6539:

TyrDaishi.1057:

FractalChaos.6539:

sostronk.8167:

“…they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them…”

Thank you. My faith in the average gamer is moderately restored. It’s nice to see someone grasps the real problem here. The real reason behind the griping is that “MY KARMA AND WXP PER MINUTE IS OFF BY 12.731% NOW ANET SUXXORZZZ!! I WANT MY FAST EASY KARMA BACK!!!”

There is not one of the many well known and respected Guilds that Caliban and I mentioned caring for wxp or karma.

You are missing the point of what we are trying to say.

We want WvW to be hard, we want WvW to be a gamemode where you need to work hard to achieve something. We are just not satisfied with the methodes that where used to do so.

One of the many reasons is that there are literally hundreds of suggestions made in these very forums to bring a better experience for all gamers in guild Wars 2, which are getting ignored so far. And keep in mind that the suggestions vary from 1vs1 to a full out large scale battle 100 vs 100 vs 100.

I’m not a big fan of the cult of personality that seems to spring up in videogames. I never heard of those guilds you mentioned, and I don’t care in any case. Their thoughts and opinions are no more important than anyone else’s. More than 3/4 of the time, clashes with this or that “uber skilled WvW guild” in the open field culminate with the realization that they’re pretty kitten ordinary.

They’re just really good at PR.

It’s not about whether you like us or think we are good. It’s that you were wrong about the way you judged us.

And even if you think we are ordinary our opinion still matters, just as much as yours does. But these guilds usually have a lot of experience in the game so it is likely they might know what they talk about. It gives people a framework to put those posts in. It also shows numbers. These guilds range from anywhere between 20 to 300 members (though most probably float around 100 active members with peaks of online members of about 50-60)

Whoa, whoa; this isn’t an indictment of any one specific guild. I’m simply pointing out that “Oooooh, Guilds A, B, C,D and E all hate this change? Wow, and I hear they’re pretty good; they must be right!!” doesn’t even enter into the debate. Who you are, how well known you are, and how impressive a guild appears to someone else has zero incidence on the debate at hand, and it doesn’t mean they have anymore credibility than anyone else.

This is a different hobby horse of mine, though. I have 3 level 80 characters, and all three entered WvW at or about level 9, and reached 80 by playing WvW exclusively. Others may have 4 or 5 level 80s with the same background, who knows. The point is that people like me have just as much time /played in WvW as “uber guild X”, and just as much knowledge and experience, and in my personal experience (that is, what I have been through and not what someone else says I should think), this arrow cart buff is just not that big of a deal.

No one has shown me any evidence yet to contradict what I am seeing in the field.

Also;

You missed the point there. Showing guilds not liking the change represents a large portion of the wvw playerbase that plays the game every day. Dont get me wrong, there are people who play alot of wvw every day who are not in wvw guilds, but when a large portion of players who dedicate their gameplay to organized wvw play dislike a patch, there is something wrong.

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

Lance.5892:

Johje Holan.4607:

It doesn’t actually seem that powerful to me. The most I was hitting for on a regular AC with no mastery was 1245. But mostly in the mid triple digits.

And to tell you the truth, I saw a lot of offensive AC’s too.

And the zergs in my match actually split up last night! It was fun.

http://imgur.com/w0LVRTA

1) try a superior
2) factor in wxp rank ac upgrades

This only encourages me to get 100 people to zerg a single tower. The 2 people on sup AC’s can’t possibly kill all 100 before we get the gate down…

…and while you do that, we’ll take the rest of the map. There’s a price to pay for everything.

With how many people? 2 people in those towers with AC’s will be able to hold you off… starting to see the problem? Probably not…

Firstly; two people in a tower with ACs will slow down 100 attackers for about…15, 20 seconds? I get that you were exaggerating to make a point (I hope you were; you’re not really so bad your 100 attackers can’t steamroll a tower with 2 defenders in under 60 seconds, are you?), but try to keep the scale even moderately realistic.

Secondly: two people with ACs in a tower can hold off 10 people, maximum…as long as said 10 people are not stupid enough to try and ram the gate down. If, however, said 10 people build 2 catas and aim them at the gate or the wall, the two people in the tower with arrow carts are pretty boned.

Ok so Superior arrowcarts have a limit of 50 people(?) and for sake of arguement (seen hits for 2.5k and 1.8k) that it hits 2k per hit (1s) now with 2 arrowcarts thats 4k per second for 50 people provided they are “zerging” and facerubbing a door.

Over 10 seconds that is a total of 40,000 damage (20,000 per arrowcart) for 50 people. Now take into account the healing/regen/waterfields that people are able to blow off, it is realistically impossible to sustain a 20,000 healing amount per 10 seconds for any group let alone 40,000 healing per 10 seconds. Factor in a 33% damage reduction from protection and you still realistically wouldnt be able to do it.

That is 2 pieces of siege holding off 50 people.

Now we come to your response which is “DONT FACERUB THE GATE HURR” “TREB” “RAM” “CATA” and so on and so forth and around in circles we go.

If you have 50 ppl standing still and not attking the carts them self i think they should die and not be able to take a keep. Do you think attking should be a guaranteed win? If any thing this IS the zerg counter that every one has been asking for.
What your asking with all of this is for number to be the only thing that is of any worth in WvW.

There may be a misunderstanding:

Rams and golems and any other form of attacking a gate just does not work any longer. Because both siege and the people manning that siege die much too fast. So it gives us the only option: trebs. Except a properly sieged up tower or keep will already have a counter treb(s) set up inside the tower to kill trebs set up to take down walls.

So let’s go through this again, against a properly sieged and manned tower/keep:

ramming won’t work
golems won’t work
catas won’t work
trebs won’t work.

How do we even properly lay siege to the tower/keep if it’s impossible to do so? No, I’m not saying that we should just be allowed to destroy their gate/wall. Because before patch, you weren’t. Against, counter siege, and people fighting both inside and outside, it was a fair challenge to get inside, not even counting the fighting that would happen over capping and killing the keep lord.

Now? it’s either take it if theres nobody or near nobody inside or don’t take it at all.

This is all considering competent people and commanders on both sides.

Johje Holan.4607:

Get rid of ballistas too and arrowcarts. Heck just get rid of the walls and gates. All we really want is open field pvp.

crown this guy king!

FractalChaos.6539:

Lance.5892:

MagnusLL.8473:

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

Caliban.3176:

We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.

The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.

I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.

REALLY?? REALLY??

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.
Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.
World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!

STRAIGHT FROM ARENANET’S MOUTH ON GUILD WARS 2 WEBSITE

PVP COMBAT ON AN EPIC SCALE

…involving “mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems” in order to “lay siege to castles”.

and thus where does it say anything about attrition?

PVP COMBAT ON AN EPIC SCALE