Guild Wars 2

Well I guess we have some interesting result, I see many people answering the topic in a way that looks like in favour of Outfits, but then we have at the moment a clear % of where is going the most of the opinions. I guess most of the people didn’t write out their thoughts, but just voted, and that’s totally understandable.
Please keep voting, more numbers are necessary, in hope at least to get some kind of attention by ANet. I don’t think anyone is asking/expecting to completely remove Outfits from the game, but maybe a bit more of variety? Some Outfits, some Armor Skins? Keep this topic up, keep voting and maybe share it with your friends/guild to have more opinions.

Hello everyone, I grew curious about how the most of us players feel about this trend of having only Outfits options in the Gem Store.
The Gem Store is where ANet makes his resources, where we spend our money!
I noticed I am not alone – actually all my friends share my opinion – in disliking Outfits, because of the very poor dye customization and -most- the impossibility of choosing only a piece to mix with other ones we like.
So I wanted to make a Poll, fast to click and choose for everyone, and see what it comes out from there. Please spend one minute to give a honest click.
I thought in 2 questions that could even have a different result.

Is there a major quantity of Outfits that I would have bought if they were Armor Skins instead?
http://strawpoll.me/6526039

Do you prefer Outfits system or Armor Skins’?
http://strawpoll.me/6526053

I add the Reddit’s comment page too: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/40sk1j/outfits_trend_are_players_happy_about_it/ You could give an upvote for more visibility.

Thanks for your time and I hope Anet will give a look at this topic too.

robert von strife.1729:

@Lys, if you talk to the Norn one, you should see on one of the last tabs there is the collections chests tab. In that one you can rebuy the chest u already unlocked for 10k karma iirc, and with it the core piece+recipe is yours again. Hope this was helpful, im stuck on the last 2 bugged events of collection IV, plz Anet fix!

That “fixed”, but really I couldn’t find it myself… Lol. Thanks.

Kargaros.9083:

Have you tried just rebuying the collection chest from Grandmaster Craftsman Hobbs? (Hint: Look at the conveniently named tab “First Collection Chests”)
I haven’t needed it myself – at least not yet.

Omfg. Thank you. But really, I asked in my guild and every person I knew, everyone was saying it was supposed to be in the other shop option, I didn’t even scrolled down all that tab myself. Thanks for sharing, you fixed my problem

Hello, I wrote already twice to support directly, and I am still waiting.
The NPC that is supposed to sell me the “vital” things that I have lost doesn’t actually sell me anything. I am stuck because I lost my Nevermore recipe (used in the wrong character). I find it ridicolous I should level another character (to artificer) since there is a NPC that have a shop option appositely for these cases. Please fix it, or at least reply some ETA – there is already plenty bugs in the game, in the new (paid) HoT content, and this one is a small one, clear one, and blocking one.

Hello, I wrote already twice to support directly, and I am still waiting.
The NPC that is supposed to sell me the “vital” things that I have lost doesn’t actually sell me anything. I am stuck because I lost my Nevermore recipe (used in the wrong character). I find it ridicolous I should level another character (to artificer) since there is a NPC that have a shop option appositely for these cases. Please fix it, or at least reply some ETA – there is already plenty bugs in the game, in the new (paid) HoT content, and this one is a small one, clear one, and blocking one.

Same happened to me. Hoping will be useful to Anet, I noticed a VERY HIGH MANIFESTATION of this lag in CoE, path3, at the destroyer boss. Unwalkable u.u

Goodluck in fixing this.

hihey.1075:

/respect.
You are one of the reasons I still believe in this class and in its users. Fighting against a glass cannon Shatter/Phantasm mesmer always provides me with unmatched adrenaline.

Keep it up

+1.

Why do shatter/phantasm mesmers need more respect BY FAR?
Cause a well builded PU is so freaking easy to play and a lot hard to counter.
Every scrub that started using mesmer 2 days ago can play PU.
You need experience, know greatly your class, and to be skilled to play no-PU.

wanted to add that if you are looking to pure dps… change class. mesmer dps sucks, mesmer is meant to have a support side, if you don’t wanna use it, don’t use mesmer at all :p

Teefy.5016:

but.. but.. it said sword / sword !! and pistol

and i say, where is your focus! :p just joking… i really can’t imagine a pve mesmer without focus, tho.
0/30/0/25/15 or 0/30/0/20/20 or 10/30/0/20/10 (all most dps spec atm I guess) are builds meant to have focus in your equip as far as I know.

where is your focus! :p

Qaelyn.7612:

Lys.8621:

Qaelyn.7612:

Anyway, I think it should be abundantly clear by now that the idea that PU mesmers cannot be beat is simply false.

No, really?

Yes, really. In fact, the further the thread progresses, while I pay more attention to how I fare personally against other classes, the more obvious it becomes that you have no experience playing a PU mesmer against other classes that are strong against them.

This entire thread is predicated on either ignorance of PU-based gameplay, or deliberate falsehood for some hidden agenda, and is a gigantic waste of everyone’s time.

The point of this thread was to find out which are those “strong against” classes and builds. I finally find out 1 that is not mesmer and shared with you. If you know others you should say it, maybe answering the question I asked to you and that you totally ignored, of course. Oh no, maybe not, you should have said about it a lot before in this thread.

Be careful what you say. Please, stop wasting your and my time, go write somewhere else.

I’m asking for experience. I’m sorry if this wasn’t a clear point.
The build I’m talking about doesn’t have so many different flavours, I introduced it in the first post.

Lys.8621:

I’m talking about the 20/20/30 traitline, usually with Crippling Dissipation, Cleansing Conflagration, Phantasmal Fury, Deceptive Evasion, Debilitating Dissipation and of course… Prismatic Understanding. Then you get a Torch offhand, Decoy (maybe also Veil), and Mass Invisibility.
The rest I guess is up to your gameplay (taking a Staff, or Sword/Pistol, Scepter ecc)… And this can work with Rampager, Rabid, Dire, or mix with Berserker gear too.

….

How to counter this?

Qaelyn.7612:

Anyway, I think it should be abundantly clear by now that the idea that PU mesmers cannot be beat is simply false.

No, really?
Little note: it’s a week I’m interesting and acting in this thread argument. It’s a weekittenep doing tests and duels with friends and/or casual players.
As I already wrote, I’m talking about possibities. Never said 0 – 100%. I wrote 5 – 95%.

EnderzShadow.2506:

I gather, from Lys’s own comments and your observation, there is one thing that is killing Lys.

Pride.

p.s. @Lys, I think you stopped being rational two pages ago…

Wow. This is the best in-topic answer so far.

Overkillengine.6084:

You don’t even need all the things you quoted.

All a person needs is the understanding how a Mesmer, and by extension a PU build works in order to defeat it using whatever tools your particular class already has.

Issue is right now there is a lot of the high offense low strategy players running around with little to no understanding of how other classes work, much less their own, but they think they are good because they are usually able to win with sheer burst offense.

So they run in, spam attacks without thought or strategy, and get owned by a particular build meant to prey upon that behavior.

It sounds like you encountered a rare Thief who was not a garden variety Heartseeker spammer. You’ll notice he deliberately played in a manner to deprive you of your sustain and your ability to deal damage effectively, and lured you out from a position of strength and used your confidence in your own power against you.

He did not let you solely dictate the terms of the engagement. And so he won.

I keep reading stuff like this. I didn’t asked for generic answers. I keep reading different versions of this: “Oh yeah, you can kill PU mesmer with knowing what to do.” Oh. Ok then. Sorry, but can’t I give you the same answer for every other great build in game?

Stop using this thread for saying how for you PU mesmer is good as it is cause “You see, it is not immortal”. Lol.
Instead please “keep” listing builds and classes, specific gameplay and skills use on how YOU can kill a PU mesmer. And sorry if I repeat myself, I would like to see your ideas in practice too.

Curious that when finally I update this thread with an in-topic post about how effectively happened that a build/gameplay/skills countered PU mesmer everyone keeps just focusing on how this build is killable with well knowing instead.

@Qaelyn
I realize now I should have asked you before: what actually kills you?
Since you are using PU so far. And I mean in 1vs1 situation (PvP or WvW), or roamin situation – such as small fights and 1vs2/3.
I’m curious why you didn’t say nothing about this since you are a PU and you claim you are so killable.

Yus I agree with that.
But also (I suppose?) not every class has a build with range damage, tons of dodges, tons of boon steal, tons of stealth, some cc and poison – all together.
I didn’t even know thieves could have all of that.
Surely if he didn’t know well how mesmer works, things would have gone in a different way, but I’m still waiting for more possibilities in countering this build.

1 – Sword Leap fails so hard when not on a straight terrain.

2 – The fact we don’t have a Pistol mainhand. WTF we are able to use it with only the left hand? Seriously? Could be the decent range weapon we miss so far.

Qaelyn.7612:

Go take your “immortal” PU mesmer to PvP and you’ll discover your mortality right quick.

I did 80% of my tests in open PvP dueling servers.

However! I’m glad to have some news after a week I ask opinion around.
Yesterday I got killed 3 times of 3 tries from a shortbow / sword+dagger thief in 1vs1 PvP situation. I really would like to have recorded that cause I’m kind of new to thieves and so I know I can’t explain his gameplay and build nicely.
But I noticed these (in order of importance in our fights, IMHO):
1) 70/80% of the time he was ranged from me and my illusions, my lack in mobilty made the burst very hard for me and illusions moving is slow too, so bleeding couldn’t stack properly.
2) He had A LOT of dodge. Not only thanks to endurance but mainly from initiative (weapons skills). My Phantasmal Duelists shots were almost always evaded, and same for the sword Leap. This means very low chances of direct damage burst.
3) Ha had a lot of boon steal thanks to Larcenous Strike (sword skill 2).
4) As I use Signet of the Eather, Poison sucks.
5) Getting both dazed and immobilized sucks. I had Mantra Of Resolve in all 3 fights tho, probably I paniced a bit and used it wrong.
6) He had some cond remover – not many. But when I got him to enough conditions stacking, he was able to “run away” (using stealth – as I do – without reset fight) and re-engage with a great timing.
7) He didn’t cared too much about evading my Torment.
8) Pretty much long fights. He hadn’t heavy direct or condition damage. He killed me slowly, engaging me when I had many cooldowns up. Every single fight ended up in this kind of situation: HE was de-engaging me cause of HIS low life, after a condition burst of mine – then I try to reach him for “finish the work” – using a lot of skills – and instead he is the one that re-engages, coming melee and killing me pretty easily – as I was running to him, “old” illusions were too far away.

Thinking about this later, I guess I made some mistakes tho. A mesmer that runs to catch a thief sounds pretty stupid. Maybe I should have just waited for him to re-engage with all of my skills ready instead of wasting them before. But also in that case, if all the times he is low life he is able to de-engage so well, I hardly could kill him. Especially in the 3rd fight we had, I got crazy at the 4th time he was escaping at 10% hp. I just waited the other 3 times he got away, and then he came back almost full life recovered… I was full too, but it was like doing again the fight from the start.
Anyway, it was a build that did counter PU great, also relatively to player skill – he was a good thief.

I really hope I will do more of this constructive fights with him and other players to have more possibilities to counter this build.

Carighan.6758:

But if that is your goal, why would you attack a PU Mesmer 1v1? Then you are clearly not trying to kill enemies, because you wouldn’t fight a fight on any ground except an already-decided-I-win one.

That’s an important part of combat, btw. You want to know that you win when you start fighting. That’s the only really smart way to fight.

I want to know that I have a chance to win, relatively to my and my opponent skills.
That’s how I see a smart way to fight.
There will always be a build that counter well another one.
Maybe one that gives a start with a 60% – 40% chances to each player.
Maybe 70% – 30%. It’s okay we can’t pretend perfection.
I find PU mesmers a 95% – 5% – if you are not mesmer aswell.
Maybe this “numbers imagine” will explain better my point of view.

Carighan.6758:

I wonder whether the problem isn’t still the definition of “winning”.

To Lys, it seems winning means to kill someone in a 1v1 or maybe 1v2 fight.
To me, and I think Qaelyn, winning means to hit the win-score or to maximize score gain in WvW.

Hooooweeeever:
Not a single game mode in game right now has 1v1-victory as its win-condition.
Yet, capping points and capping material, those are the win-conditions of the current PvP modes.

And I think that’s the root cause of a lot of current balance complaints, the ever-present notion that players need to “fight fair”, hit each other in a 1v1 situation, “duel it out”.
The LAST thing you want to do is fight fair. Why would you? It lessens your chance of success. I’m trying to win a sPvP round or a WvW week here, the moment “Fight fair” becomes a PvP mode I’ll be listening. But right now that’s simply not the case. I’ll fight as tricky and dirty as you let me. If you fall for a feint cap in WvW, your loss, I was never trying to fight. If you trying to 1v1 me and follow me around a corner to run into two stealthed thieves well you should have realized that I won’t ever give you a fair fight if I can avoid it.

If I am fighting 1v1 and I see a chance to escape, I will (one of the key reasons PU isn’t all that strong, you have issues preventing me from doing that). I’ll come back with reinforcements and make sure you cannot win.

Please stop being so fast writing. I can’t keep up. :P

I’m not talking about winning or loosing. I’m talking about giving players chances. Why else we need balance otherwise?
Anyway you know I understand your point of view about balancing and 1vs1.

Uhm. While I’m roaming my stuff are about killing other groups of players.
My goal is not to survive, is to kill enemies that I chase and/or that are chasing me.
If they run away from me, it is not a fight.
Please, make your thief or whatever with the build you want, I’ll be glad to see it in action vs PU. This is what this topic was for.

Qaelyn, don’t worry, I don’t care if you personally don’t belive my claims. You can think that I’m just a frustrated guy that only needs some good love in real life, and this is why I just complain about non sense things in a Guild Wars 2 forum.
The fact is that if you don’t know about other classes that are not mesmer that can actually counter the build this thread is about you can just stop writing here.
You said generally condi necro, I replied you why for me generally condi necro isn’t a problem. If you are a condi necro and you believe I am wrong just show me.

Qaelyn.7612:

Lys.8621:

Seriously… I DID try this build myself, I DID try to counter it. I wrote it in the opening post. I wanted to open this discussion on the forum because trying PU build got me frustrated about the fact I COULDN’T BEING KILLED in those situation I already explained in this thread. If actually nothing (BUT some kind of mesmers) is able to counter this IS UNFAIR and makes this game worse.

It feels like you aren’t even reading the responses and just keep repeating the same claims over and over again.

PU mesmer is a strong dueling class. It can be hard to kill in a straight 1v1. But the situations in which 1v1s occur are limited, so it simply isn’t a big deal. There are other classes/builds that are also very strong in straight duels, and they aren’t a big deal either.

And you’ve been told repeatedly what the weaknesses of the build are already. You just keep ignoring them and repeating the (literally unbelievable) claim that you can’t be killed.

Go on your PU mesmer and go to one of the dueling servers. Maybe the one Vassangel runs. You’ll get beaten good and plenty.

Oh my god, give me the time to write your answer While you were writing this, I posted the reply from above.

Qaelyn.7612:

Lys.8621:

Condi necro? I answered to that. I find condi necro easy to kill.

Then you haven’t played a good one. What are you using for condition clear? Mesmers in general are weak on condition cleansing, and the classic PU build uses only the torch trait, 2 conditions every 20 or 24 seconds. Not nearly enough to keep up with a high condition class.

Other weaknesses already mentioned in the thread: limited mobility, poor chase capability, and no AOE. A PU mesmer can easily be swarmed even by a class with a lot of minions if it’s played properly. Like all classes, heavy CC can also be a problem.

IMO you are grossly exaggerating your “immortality”, assuming you are playing against other players of similar skill.

I use torch and Mantra Of Resolve. I have obviously enough time to cast mantra after cd while in stealth.
Pretty much vigor and moving in safe places while in stealth (reminder: while in stealth you have aegis/protection/regen up), blink if you really need to move farer very fast.
Minions are useless cause they do not sustained rage damage, I just stay far from em and illusions do the rest. I do not need AoE to 1vs1/2.
CC aren’t a problem tho, Decoy, Blink, sword Leap and in extreme also Distortion.

I really do not want to sound presumptuous. I have been saying all the time that this build needs almost 0 skill to be played good. I give it to a friend that is new to mesmer and he killed me almost always vs my engineer (and I am not new to engineer).
This is why I call it “cheese”. Being extremely strong thanks to your gameplay and skills it is understable and respectful. A newbie that use an extremely easy to play build and eats experienced players it is not, IMO.

Carighan.6758:

Basically, Qaelyn said everything better than I could.
If you find complaining on the forum more effective than trying a build out yourself to get an idea where it’s shortcomings are, or adapting your own setup, or your strategy, then I guess that’s what works for you. Just be aware that it’s only your take on how to approach PvP gameplay.

Seriously… I DID try this build myself, I DID try to counter it. I wrote it in the opening post. I wanted to open this discussion on the forum because trying PU build got me frustrated about the fact I COULDN’T BEING KILLED in those situation I already explained in this thread. If actually nothing (BUT some kind of mesmers) is able to counter this IS UNFAIR and makes this game worse.

raynn.9254:

Lys.8621:

I think this thread went in a direction I didnt want to.
Maybe I know the problem: wrong section? I wanted to listen opinions from various classes about IF they can counter PU mesmers HOW they do it.
Unluckily phantasmal/hybrid mesmer seems the only one class spec that can do it, so almost every mesmer here it’s just talking about adapting and about how you have only to ignore them or how balance will never exists or how you should think only about playing ecc. I didn’t want such a generic discussion cause my topic wasn’t about “Is nerfing a good thing or not?” but about “You can kill PUs? How.”
To be honest i read very little “yes I can” with explaination. The rest of the discussion is out of topic.

I wasn’t complaining about an OP build that I can’t beat, cause I am actually playing it. I’m complaining cause I feel idiotic being immortal without any commitment. This is “cheese” in my opinion. Adapt to it? Lol. It’s not about I don’t want to win, or want to complain, I want this game to improve. Shall I just accept things as they are and play? Come on.

For the last time. I wanted to know who did find a way to counter it from ANY class – without running away of course And please, if you did and you are not a phantasm/hybrid mesmer, tell me how, or directly show me.
If not – if actually no one that is not a mesmer – found a way to counter this – THEN I would like to put this under Anet eyes cause it is obviously not fair.

Please stop the off topic :P
Also, do you think I should actually move the thread in another section?

I just don’t get it, why post a question if you’re not gonna read/or aren’t interested in answers. Of 2 pages you only got the ‘’phantasm/hybrid mesmer" build, while there were clearly other suggestions (i.e. lockdown mesmer, condi necro, etc…).
Secondly, if you feel idiotic playing a build, then stop being an idiot and change your build. This game is not designed so that each and every build would satisfy you or anyone in particular. We have tons of builds for each profession, pick one you enjoy (i.e. don’t feel idiotic playing it) and stick to it.

Sorry, maybe its you the one that isn’t reading.
Clearly other suggestions? What do you mean for suggestions? Cause I mean, as I many times said, “how do you kill PU mesmer”. I got that other mesmers builds can do it. I wrote it. I don’t feel fair that only other mesmers can be able to do it.
Condi necro? I answered to that. I find condi necro easy to kill. You are a condi necro and you think you can kill PU? Tell me how, not generally “using conditions”, or better, let’s try that out in practice so I can see.
If a build is idiotic, changing it without say nothing, won’t help the game to improve. That’s what I’m caring about.

More positive opinions? Lol.

I think this thread went in a direction I didnt want to.
Maybe I know the problem: wrong section? I wanted to listen opinions from various classes about IF they can counter PU mesmers HOW they do it.
Unluckily phantasmal/hybrid mesmer seems the only one class spec that can do it, so almost every mesmer here it’s just talking about adapting and about how you have only to ignore them or how balance will never exists or how you should think only about playing ecc. I didn’t want such a generic discussion cause my topic wasn’t about “Is nerfing a good thing or not?” but about “You can kill PUs? How.”
To be honest i read very little “yes I can” with explaination. The rest of the discussion is out of topic.

I wasn’t complaining about an OP build that I can’t beat, cause I am actually playing it. I’m complaining cause I feel idiotic being immortal without any commitment. This is “cheese” in my opinion. Adapt to it? Lol. It’s not about I don’t want to win, or want to complain, I want this game to improve. Shall I just accept things as they are and play? Come on.

For the last time. I wanted to know who did find a way to counter it from ANY class – without running away of course And please, if you did and you are not a phantasm/hybrid mesmer, tell me how, or directly show me.
If not – if actually no one that is not a mesmer – found a way to counter this – THEN I would like to put this under Anet eyes cause it is obviously not fair.

Please stop the off topic :P
Also, do you think I should actually move the thread in another section?

Carighan.6758:

Lys.8621:

If I am wrong, I ask again, how can you counter – I mean in other words how can you kill – a PU mesmer?

Very easily, but you have to let go of the idea that any developer worth their paycheck would consider 1v1 the end-goal of RPG balance. Because it never is, and that’s a good thing. Dev work in that regard is a careful balance if making the players think you care about 1v1 balance, while effectively doing as little for it as possible (because it’s a Bad Idea™).

So a PU Mesmer falters by subjecting them to a team fight. I know this is what I usually say in regards to Phantasm Mesmers (who crash and burn very hard in team fights due to the AE slaughtering their main source of damage), but here the problem is that the amount of effects flying around is too much. If there’s multiple sources of buffs and conditions, the PU Mesmer no longer has a significant advantage. Their main power in a team fight is boon sharing, and while it’s good (see the PvE builds), it doesn’t hold up to the more offence-oriented kill-trains who still run around with nearly full buffs.

And that’s the problem. PU Mesmers are strong. In a game-mode we as the players constructed. There’s no 1v1 PvP.

I feel I’m repeating myself.
I’m not talking mainly as duels situation. I’m talking about roaming, that is 1vs1 or 1vs2/3 or 2/5vs2/5 situations.
I feel idiotic killing 1vs2 almost every class i meet and always survive and help finish/stomping in small group fights without even feel in danger.
You say then the mainly thoughts for an MMORPG aren’t about 1vs1 and/or roaming experience. Okay. I can understand it, but I’m not sure it is a good thing – I’m not a dev tho.

You may be interested in my thread.
Please feel free to say your opinions as thieves.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/How-to-counter-Prismatic-Understanding

Yes I can read, thank you for caring. You didn’t talk about bunkers, I did, cause you said that PU mesmers can’t put out pressure. They can if you are not bunker.
So I already said, of course you can run away from a PU mesmer. The point is that I don’t want to. Being forced to run away from a fight without either trying is not fair.

But I understand the MMORPG point of view, I understand what you said about the balance focusing. I can respect that and that’s all… But don’t tell me this build is not OP, is not cheese, or such. You can’t properly fight it and if you are not a phantasm spec, you can always leave the fight. If I am wrong, I ask again, how can you counter – I mean in other words how can you kill – a PU mesmer?

Carighan.6758:

One interesting point: Why is a toughness/condition build “cheese”? Just because it’s not the way you play?
I find zerker builds to be pretty cheesy, game design shouldn’t allow you to get away with not caring about your defensive stats. <— not more wrong than your position

phaeris.7604:

Abilities as strong as PU should have internal timers.

It does, 1s on each buff proc, and the stealth moves themselves have CDs, too. We’re not thieves who can spam stealth-giving moves, you know? :P

Talking about thieves – that had be nerfed so far for those situation. They can’t fight PU mesmers, I think. Please if you are a thief and you can, shout it out.
Internal cd for PU is laughable.

Qaelyn.7612:

K U T M.4539:

Easy to play and extremely rewarding = Cheese

Easy to play and extremely rewarding = smart.

Easy to play and extremely rewarding = Cheese

You may be interested in my thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/How-to-counter-Prismatic-Understanding

Please feel free to write your opinions as engineers.

@bOgz

No. I’m honestly asking how to counter this, cause I wasn’t able to find anything that could do it.
Now I have something: the phantasm mesmer spec, maybe with focus traited and feedback. Okay. I think it is not enough.
I really hope that something else will come out from this thread… But if it won’t, ofc I think this spec should be nerfed.
Also, just to be precise, I’m not complaining about PU cause I’m dying from it – I’m a mesmer, I’m using PU – I’m complaining cause I can’t being killed and I feel idiotic playing it.

@Celeras

With gear mixed Rabid/Berserker you can get 2600 armour and 1100 condition damage, plus 50% crit chance and 40% crit dmg.

Quoting myself from the starting post.

This means that if you don’t run away and you don’t attack me I can easy kill you. Really you don’t think so?
Or you are a bunker full healing warrior or maybe meditation guard. But I’m sure also in this case, with some more time, I could be able to finish them classes spec aswell, and they won’t be able to kill me anyway. Anyway bunker spec are hard to kill for many other spec too.

And plus, generally, you won’t find any bunker playing wvw roaming, since they aren’t meant to kill but to survive.

PU mesmers can’t put out any pressure? Are you kidding me?

@Assassin
You apply conditions when you replace old illusions with new ones, you apply conditions when illusions crit on their target, you apply conditions when your illusions are killed. Scepter is good mainly cause of the skill 2 block/torment and ofc extra confusion.

@Carighan
Well also if I respect this point of view, I do not agree. I am roaming, I want have fun, I want improve myself, I want prove myself… PU mesmers are so awful to fighting with that I am forced to ignore them? I say nerf PU mesmers then. I do not roam for running away from players…
Boon removal and AoE are okay I guess, but it’s too much generic. Boon removals havae cooldowns and PU gives perma boons spam, AoE can be easily evaded and torch can clean heavy conditions from them…

I would like to read a guardian, a thief, whatever, that says “Hey, I know how to counter PU, I do it this way…”.
Maybe I should move the thread in another forum section?

I’m very thankful for your answers and your time!

@Chaos
I agree with your point of view, and reflection can actually be great to counter PU since mainly the damage comes from illusions projectils. Thanks for this tip, I’ll surely try it out. However, I wonder if reflection could actually kill the PU mesmer, or just survive it and when having cd on reflection skills and make some kind of mistake, just die. :/ I still see, as you said, the OP situation thanks to PU perma protection, regen and aegis.
Plus, I tried already to killing phantasms/clone while PU mesmer is in stealth instead of just waiting… Waiting seemed stupid but actually killing illusions I kill myself with conditions, especially if I have no range/low range (thief, war, ele)… And also in the time he stealths (relative long time) with maybe a Sigil of Energy, his clone spamming is idiotic.

@Pyroatheist
Same as I just wrote to Chaos, I’m worried about killing illusions. I tried it, and didn’t work properly. But I totally agree the hardest opponent for PU mesmer is a range (maybe GS) phantasm mesmer, cause of the aggro spread and the phantasms burst when the PU mesmer show himself. I had some good fights vs a GS/sword pistol mesmer in PvP, I was almost being killed couple of times.

@Peacemaker Xeranan
I didn’t find heavy conditions user hard to kill. Necro/engi/condi thieves are generally an easy play for me. With the 20 in Domination traitline your torch skills remove conditions, and in case, I can always sacrifice Veil for the Mantra of Resolve.
Mobility classes of course can run away from me, but in a fight you want to kill your target, in PvP duels as in wvw roaming, running away doesn’t counter a build.
Outrange can be annoying but for example, vs “OP spirit ranger build”, I just move closer to em while in stealth, maybe using torch 4 for give burning as stealth finishes. It takes just a bit longer but wasn’t a way to kill PU mesmers.
Classes with AI pets that lock target. As I wrote for Pyroatheist I agree on this point, but this also works only for pets that does sustained range damage. I can easy avoid melee ranger pets and necro minions just staying far from em, they can take my clones aggro making the opponent longer to finish, but looks very like a posticipation.

I know this is the mesmer forum section, and I will try out better to counter PU mesmers as mesmer. But… what about other classes? How a thief, ranger, necro, engi, etc could counter this? Chaos just made me think about reflection – maybe with spirit weapons – guardian… But what else?
If you are not a phantasmal mesmer and you meet a PU mesmer while wvw roaming you just have to give it up? I can’t accept this!
My worries and questions were generally in game, cause I don’t play only mesmer and this build is frustrating me, I don’t find it fair. It is just me then, or actually Anet should take a look at this thread?

I’m not saying it is good for every situation. For tPvP is surely not good… I’m talking relative to wvw roamin / small fights – 1vs1, 1vs2/3, 4vs4 and such, or PvP dueling or 1vs2.
Of course a great thief vs a totally newbie mesmer with this build will win. But what about a great thief vs great mesmer? I know there are many other classes that have OP builds… this doesn’t mean it is a good thing… at all. And I really couldnt find another class OP build that works vs this one in THOSE situation I said above. This is unfair imho… But really, I’m hoping I’m wrong and I just need to “discover this way to counter it”… That is what I’m asking here. I’m totally available to try this out also in practice!

@Thedenofsin
You can’t cap or hold a point good of course. But you can stay alive for the time you need to recover and engage again… That is a very short time thanks to the Signet. This means is not good for capping (tPvP) but its very good for fighting.

Hello everyone, I make this post cause I’m getting very frustrated about the condition/cloak build that some mesmers are using at the moment. Of course I’m trying it out myself and this got me more and more frustrated.
I’m talking about the 20/20/30 traitline, usually with Crippling Dissipation, Cleansing Conflagration, Phantasmal Fury, Deceptive Evasion, Debilitating Dissipation and of course… Prismatic Understanding. Then you get a Torch offhand, Decoy (maybe also Veil), and Mass Invisibility.
The rest I guess is up to your gameplay (taking a Staff, or Sword/Pistol, Scepter ecc)… And this can work with Rampager, Rabid, Dire, or mix with Berserker gear too.

I’ve been playing this so long, also before the introduction of the new Signet of the Eather… that is actually perfect for this build cause you will have almost always 3 clones/phantasms up, and a lot of time for “waiting and regenerate” thanks to cloaking.

If you don’t know how this build works I suggest you to try out.
Mainly is all about spamming clones, well-known about skill chain to burst with conditions, and wait in stealth while your illusions do the work. To be honest I find it very stupid to play it nicely… Not so easy to play it great – nothing compared to Shatter spec – but you don’t need to play it great to easy win every 1vs1 and survive 1vs2/3. That is my point… Prismatic Understanding + Illusionary Counter + Blurred Frenzy + Distortion… Isn’t this a bit too much survivability?
With gear mixed Rabid/Berserker you can get 2600 armour and 1100 condition damage, plus 50% crit chance and 40% crit dmg.
Phantasmal Duelist looks just so godlike.

My main is mesmer and this build makes me feel foolishly immortal in duels and 1vs2/3. My question is… I met only bad players that tried to kill me, or actually this need a big nerf? I asked some mesmer friends to help me find this out… Making them wear this build and I tried to vs em with my engineer. Frustrating. So in other words…
How to counter this?

Thanks for your help.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Glad it got resolved for you.

You won’t always get someone posting in the forum about a specific issue — sometimes they have time to do that, but often they only have time to work on the issue.

That is ofc more important!

Okay, I got an update today – different from patch updates – that solved this problem. I guess it was a problem with iMac version… No answer here but seems that someone cared so… Thank you! <3

A little push up for this thread… I really need help :<

I tried to look around but I have no idea where this folder could be and I don’t wanna delete random files that shouldn’t be deleted… The problem persists.
Anet in this way I cannot buy in GemStore so… Please help me out :P

Edit: I did find the tmp folder and tried to delete the gw2 files. Didn’t work.

Hello,
I noticed my TP and GemStore aren’t working after the latest update.
I compared with some friends and seems I am the only one with this problem. I’m running on an iMac, this could be the difference.
I got these screens when I try to use the Black Lion panel.

Just to say a thanks to a 15ish ppl group from ECG guild (arborstone) to come behind the south camp – well known duel area – and wipe 5 people that were having fun with a very nice arborstone player. Very mature, thanks again for showing us your very small kitten!

Edit: kitten was pen*s.

colesy.8490:

Why you choose the Illusions traitline instead of the Domination one since your main damage is from phantasms?

Phantasmal Haste means my phantasms recharge quicker, and Illusionist’s Celerity means I can cast phantasms more often which is useful for replacingthem whenthey die in dungeons. Even if they don’t need replacing, three of them out in 0/20/0/25/25 attack more frequently than my usual 10/30/0/30/0.

Also, I would suggest to use Scholar Runes instead of Ruby Orbs. I tried em both, and there is nice difference. Since we are so squishy when full zerker, your health vs bosses will be almost always above 90% (or dead :P).

The 10%+ damage from scholar runes doesn’t actually afect phantasms which are our main source of damage, plus the loss of precision from going ruby to scholar in additition to taking 10 points out of duelng is a bit rough for making our phantasms crit as much as possible.

I didnt know that the +10% doesnt affect phantasms :o I was playing shatter when I had Ruby Orbs. I should try them again now.
I’m still not so sure about the Illusions traitiline… I feel that I can replace my phantasms fast enough with 0 points there. The only skill I would like to have is the Phantasmal Haste but tbh, very often, my phantasms are killed before they can recharge 2nd time. I see more damage if I shatter them after their charge, and replace them immediately after.

@colesy

Why you choose the Illusions traitline instead of the Domination one since your main damage is from phantasms?
Also, I would suggest to use Scholar Runes instead of Ruby Orbs. I tried em both, and there is nice difference. Since we are so squishy when full zerker, your health vs bosses will be almost always above 90% (or dead :P).

The Illusionary Persona trait its a very good one. If it doesnt take 30 points on Illusions line, I would use it in PvE too. But unluckily you need 30 points, and apart from that skill (and the minor Illusionist Celerity on 25th point, that can be good too) everything on that line its a waste of traits: condition damage and shatter skill cd, useless in PvE since the base cooldown is fast enough for let you shatter clones very often. Also, you wont find any other usefull skill to put in adept and master points. IMHO, the Illusions traitline shouldnt be used in a burst PvE build.
As I said before, you highly need the Inspiration traitline instead.
For the build you linked, and I’m sorry if I repeat myself, I find the staff a very low damage weapon. The auto is VERY slow, Chaos Armor is errrrr in PvE, plus the only nice AoE skill we have has a too long cd, and anyway it does very low damage.
Sword OH I dont see any reason to choose it instead of the focus. You need focus. Your party needs you to have focus. Mainly because:
- Gives extra reflection
- You can push/pull enemies
- Gives extra swiftness
- Gives extra cond remover
- The Warden is the most powerful phantasm mesmer has
About the 30 points in Dominations, you dont need em. You have enough power from your gears. Take Scholar Runes and you will see what I’m talking about.
You dont need to choose from Mind Wrack damage or Illusions damage (I and III), just take them both, cause the Greatsword Training skill gives you only +50 power that wont make any noticeable difference in your already high burst, also cds on gs are already fast enough.

…Was forgetting about your question for the phantasms’ fury trait. With this build, you have already almost 50% crit chance. What do you want more? :P Also, dont forget that in PvE you are almost never alone. You will have some other classes that will provide enough fury for all the party. And dont forget about your Signet of Inspiration, another utility a mesmer should know how to use properly in PvE

I think that if you are searching for a burst PvE build, and you do 99% PvE as you said, you should go full Berserker geared and using 30 in Inspiration traitline, cause of utilities in there, support for party with reflection/cleaning cond/healing and also more survailability vs conditions. For burst I personally dont choose the Illusion traitline: condition damage (of mesmer) really sucks in PvE, also that trait utilities are not useful at all.
I suggest a 20/20/0/30/0, going for an hybrid phantasm/shatter gameplay.
Use gs max range when you cant go melee (happens! see the cliffside fractal boss, or shaman fractal boss, ecc), otherwise go sword+focus (for extra reflection, ground control and mobility) or sword+pistol (for more certain damage and stacking up to 25 confusion with Feedback combo). You can easily change your gameplay relative to situations, choosing to shatter for maximise burst (especially in high level dungeon, when phantasms just die too easily), or spamming phantasms in tactic places and let them do your main damage.

20 points in Domination let you have the possibility of stacking vulnerability very fast, that is awesome for the party when you need to burst bosses or a pretty big group of mobs. You can take the I (Mental Torment) for get more shatter burst, and III (Empowered Illusions) for maximise the phantasms damage. You can just spam phantasms, let them charge 1 or 2 times, and then shatter them.

20 in Dueling for IV (Blade Training) for cd on sword skills and more precision. Then you can swap from X (Deceptive Evasion) when you dont use pistol, to IX (Duelist’s Discipline) when you use pistol.

30 in Inspiration, and here you can (and must) change your traits often relatively to situation and party classes. Almost always you should keep VIII (Warden’s Feedback) to get the best from your focus. Then, IV gives you a great defence against conditions, II is good if you have to reflect a lot, XI if there are a lot of conditions on the party, XII can give you extra healing.

I personally dont like staff in PvE. Loving staff in WvW. But our condition damage is just not worth it compared to our direct damage, in PvE. Neither scepter (omg so low damage…) or torch (you dont need more cloak, you can already have 3 cloaking skills in PvE – Veil+Decoy+Mass Inv are enough, we are not thieves!).
I dont either think we need the block from the sword OH (or scepter), or the teleport from the staff skill 2. Since you have 20 in Dueling and zerk gear that gives you so high crit chance (about 48% if I remember well), you can have perma vigor so kinda infinite dodges. That’s enough for survivability in PvE.

Keep going Berserker in high fotm level or everything else in PvE.
Mesmer has great survailability skills, you dont need your gear to be tanky. Do some practice instead!
I dont know how is your build atm, but anyway I suggest you to take 30 points in Inspiration traitline for every PvE run you do, low or high level. That traitline is full of utilities that can help you out with conditions removal and resistence, plus the extra reflection/healing/cleaning for all the party.
I usually run in fotm with a 20/20/0/30/0, with full zerk gear, using gs + sw/focus or sw/pistol for some bosses. I can both choose to go Phantasm or Shatter relative to the situation. Dealing a lot of damage, I feel I am useful enough for party burst and survalability.